S01.E06: The Bloody Truth

[Jennabelle88]

On 11/29/2020 at 9:18 PM, Valny said:

And eeew to the part where he and Elena were kissing and the string cheese between their lips came out! Oh man, I had to look away. Sorry, that just grosses me out.

Same! It was so disgusting! 

On 11/30/2020 at 12:05 AM, Cheezwiz said:

Yep, it's Nicole singing over the opening title sequence.

I didn't know that! I think she sounded pretty good. 

On 11/30/2020 at 10:26 AM, Robert Lynch said:

Why were they expecting a 2nd season? It looked like the show was done for good.

I thought this was supposed to be a one and done. 

[Boo Boo]

Just binge watched this show and wow.  It was absolutely horrible.  The acting was so overwrought --- even Kidman.  The plot was nothing new.  The courtroom scenes stupid, unrealistic.  

Nicole Kidman fucked up her face beyond repair with the filters. It's made her look like her face is made of silly putty.  

[MicheleinPhilly]

17 hours ago, Jennabelle88 said:

I thought this was supposed to be a one and done. 

That was the intention but just like with Big Little Lies, everyone involved is just thinking 🤑. Although I can't imagine this was a cheap show to produce.

I wouldn't watch a 2nd season. 

[M.CoatesworthHay]

Did anyone see "Nicole Kidman's Character from The Undoing" as one of Giuliani's witnesses on SNL this weekend? They were confused about her accent as well! 

[Jennabelle88]

3 hours ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

That was the intention but just like with Big Little Lies, everyone involved is just thinking 🤑. Although I can't imagine this was a cheap show to produce.

I wouldn't watch a 2nd season. 

Nor would I. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Jennabelle88

[Aqua]

50 minutes ago, M.CoatesworthHay said:

Did anyone see "Nicole Kidman's Character from The Undoing" as one of Giuliani's witnesses on SNL this weekend? They were confused about her accent as well! 

Yes and I was pleased it was one of the pop culture references they did that I actually got for once!

[RealReality]

On 12/5/2020 at 1:22 PM, carrps said:

Yes, and they kept pushing us to think she had some kind of mental issues. Like it's o.k. to kill her because she was messing with people. The "bitches be crazy" defense. Hate.

But, devils avocado (TM: 30 Rock) the only way we "knew" that Elena was cuckoo bananas nutcakes was because we saw her through sociopath Jonathan's eyes.  Do we even know if his story is true and that she came at him with the hammer?  All things considered, do the showrunners or the writers want us to question the reliability of Jonathan as a narrator?  To go back and think of how he could have twisted things.

And better yet, how Grace might have twisted things because of her own internal struggles.  Through Grace's eyes Elena was some mysterious ethereal sexually exotic creature.  Something unique and...exotic in their world, like this rare bird to look at and play with.  She wasn't a normal mother who just loved her son, made lunches, clipped coupons and browsed Amazon to see if she could get a better deal.  Every interaction between her and Grace was so.....weird.  I cannot imagine that they would have been an objective truth in them.

 

6 hours ago, M.CoatesworthHay said:

Did anyone see "Nicole Kidman's Character from The Undoing" as one of Giuliani's witnesses on SNL this weekend? They were confused about her accent as well! 

YES!  Just came to talk about it, hilarious.  

[Boo Boo]

20 hours ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

That was the intention but just like with Big Little Lies, everyone involved is just thinking 🤑. Although I can't imagine this was a cheap show to produce.

I wouldn't watch a 2nd season. 

I could barely get through this entire show.

This was Big Little Lies, without the humor,  Meets Boston Legal.  The courtroom scenes were beyond ridiculous.  Haley telling Grace not to emote too much but then she basically has a tantrum screaming objection? Helicopters landing on bridges?  Ugh, it was beyond awful.

 

[Ashforth]

On 11/29/2020 at 9:13 PM, saoirse said:

Well that was...an ending.

From what I can tell, this was set up to be a Nicole Kidman vehicle but I honestly feel it was Hugh Grant’s pretty much the entire way. I just rewatched Notting Hill, and he definitely showed some range from that role!

I talked to a friend a couple of days ago who said that she loved The Undoing and thought that Kidman was great and that Grant stunk. I was a little dumbfounded, but then remembered how mileage varies! I did mention that I thought it could be better if Kidman's face could move, and she said, well, yeah.🤣

[izabella]

On 12/5/2020 at 1:54 AM, RealReality said:

Thats the thing, how can we really ever know since we really only ever saw Elena through someone else's eyes.  I don't think we ever saw her alone or got her point of view except when she was being murdered.   For this show she was an object, but I don't know if that was a conscious decision.  

From what I've seen, a lot of shows select the focus characters, and it's very often the detectives or the bad guy or the families more than the victim.  I've seen countless shows where we know almost nothing of the victim or the victim's life, much less their POV.   They are often even completely anonymous.  It's always a conscious choice of which characters they focus on.  In this show, it was Nicole Kidman mostly, with considerable Hugh Grant.  The focus was on a psychologist married to a sociopath capable of murder and how she comes to realize that.  I think we were robbed, to a large extent, of the horror of that dawning realization from Nicole since her face could not emote. 

In any case, I wish we had known Elena better, because they had her do some curious and unexpected things, but then never filled in any rich characterization.  But they were like that about a lot of things, including Nicole's character.  "I walk a lot at night wearing beautiful coats," is not a well-developed character.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by izabella

[RealReality]

11 minutes ago, izabella said:

From what I've seen, a lot of shows select the focus characters, and it's very often the detectives or the bad guy or the families more than the victim.  I've seen countless shows where we know almost nothing of the victim or the victim's life, much less their POV.   They are often even completely anonymous.  It's always a conscious choice of which characters they focus on.  In this show, it was Nicole Kidman mostly, with considerable Hugh Grant.  The focus was on a psychologist married to a sociopath capable of murder and how she comes to realize that.  I think we were robbed, to a large extent, of the horror of that dawning realization from Nicole since her face could not emote. 

In any case, I wish we had known Elena better, because they had her do some curious and unexpected things, but then never filled in any rich characterization.  But they were like that about a lot of things, including Nicole's character.  "I walk a lot at night wearing beautiful coats," is not a well-developed character.

 

Well, yeah, like from graces point of view it was startling and kind of...aggressive or just weirdly strategic for Elena to walk up to her naked. 

The whole scene with the music and the facial expressions.  But maybe Elena is just a woman who walks around naked in the gym locker room and if they are going to chat with you they are doing to do it as the lord made them. Its not the rarity I wish it was!  LOL

 

She painted a picture of grace, it looks weird and stalker-y but maybe from her perspective there was an explanation  that wasn't cuckoo bananas.  

 

Like you said there were things Elena did that were, odd on their face and certainly odd from the perspective of grace and Jonathan but may not have been weird for Elena.  

[Aqua]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

From what I've seen, a lot of shows select the focus characters, and it's very often the detectives or the bad guy or the families more than the victim.  I've seen countless shows where we know almost nothing of the victim or the victim's life, much less their POV.   They are often even completely anonymous.  It's always a conscious choice of which characters they focus on.  In this show, it was Nicole Kidman mostly, with considerable Hugh Grant.  The focus was on a psychologist married to a sociopath capable of murder and how she comes to realize that.  I think we were robbed, to a large extent, of the horror of that dawning realization from Nicole since her face could not emote. 

In any case, I wish we had known Elena better, because they had her do some curious and unexpected things, but then never filled in any rich characterization.  But they were like that about a lot of things, including Nicole's character.  "I walk a lot at night wearing beautiful coats," is not a well-developed character.

 

I agree. I think the story was kind of unfinished. I wanted to know more about Elena and whether she was really crushing on Grace or if it was part of a mind game.

[mikem]

I re-watched the whole series after knowing the ending, and it's interesting how linear and non-twisty it actually is.  The guy who seems to be the murderer from the very beginning actually is the murderer, and everyone else is essentially telling the truth and are who they say they are.  No one is hiding anything, with the exception of Henry having the murder weapon and having seen Jonathan and Elena together, thereby knowing his father's guilt all along.  The best friend really is just the best friend, the victim's husband has done nothing shady, etc.  There's a lot of "could it be..." thrown at us, but none of it amounts to anything in the end.

The plot holes are more glaring on re-examination, though.  Would Grace really randomly walk from their apartment on E 63rd to Harlem by herself at night in January?  That's over 3 miles each way.  Would the detective pointlessly lie on the stand about Grace being in the area on the night of murder, when he knows that Grace, who is there, knows about the security camera footage?  Why would Jonathan bring his bloody tuxedo to a dry cleaner rather than destroy it?  Didn't the dry cleaner find it weird he has so much blood on a tuxedo, and don't they watch the news?  How did Jonathan drive to the lake house - did he rent a car, in which case the police should know he has a hold on his credit card from a rental car company?  Jonathan and Grace have a driver take them to the auction, so it seems they don't have a car themselves, and one is never mentioned.  Etc, etc.  But this did not end up being a plot-driven production, so the plot holes aren't as bothersome as they would be otherwise.

[LuvMyShows]

I didn't pay very close attention to this snooze-fest, so hoping someone can fill in my missing knowledge...

• How long ago did the affair with Elena start?
• Elena's husband told the son that Elena was in her studio that morning.  Had she supposedly gone there the night before, and if so, why didn't the husband seem concerned that it was morning and his wife hadn't come back?  
• Why did Elena sit across from the school so much and just watch?
• How did the cops come to suspect Jonathan?
• What was Jonathan's reason for killing Elena and when did it occur specifically in the timing of that night of the auction?
• Why did Elena join that committee when the auction was right around the corner?  Did she want to play with fire and get close to Nicole Kidman's character?

[SunnyBeBe]

I’m late to the party.  I just binge watched this series.  I have a much different take on this than most around here. Yes, there were some plot issues, however, for the most part, I really liked this series.  I thought the acting was great and Kidman looked lovely. In fact, to me most all of the characters were quite attractive.  I think the premise of the movie was to expose the phenomenon that occurs in families where a cruel killer can come off as an innocent. It’s quite common. You can watch actual cases of it on true crime channels. 
 

I was quite disappointed in two pretty important court scene problems that should not have happened.  As an attorney, I am super critical of these types of mistakes and it’s difficult for me to overlook it.  The first issue was during Grace’s testimony.  The objection by the defense over the hearsay comments from Jonathons mother would not have been overruled. This was NOT a statement against interest, as prosecutor said.  A statement against interest would have been what the witness said, not his mother. Totally, hearsay with no exception that I see.  A better argument would have been that the witness opened the door, but still that kind of testimony......not believable.  He might even get a new trial on that kind of error.  And the other bizarre move was having the victims son in the courtroom.  A child who was a potential witness would only be brought in for their testimony, then escorted out. Never would the be sitting in the courtroom when the defense starts calling witnesses, like what happened. That’s just crazy.  To me, that just would not happen.  

[Jax7917]

On 12/1/2020 at 1:24 AM, Vella said:

As much as I love Donald Sutherland, Franklin's role was pointless and added nothing. Much of what he contributes could be parceled off to others. Sylvia's role could have been beefed up, Janel Moloney and Fala Chen could have lasted past the first 2 episodes.  His scenes mostly went nowhere. Lending Jonathan money? Dropped immediately. Threatening Jonathan? No impact. The confrontation with the principal? Dropped immediately. He always believed Jonathan was guilty, so nothing changed there.  None of his scenes with Grace were memorable or revealed anything and he always remained firmly in her corner.  I kept wondering what was the point of bringing Donald Sutherland on board?

Just so he would be another suspect . They needed a bunch of people for The Who done it aspect of the show 

I’m surprised to see everyone thinking Nicole looked horrible . Yeah she got a bunch of work done , but compared to the disastrous faces I see in Hollywood these days , I think she looks great . She’s 53 , not 33 . I also loved her hair in this but I’m guessing it’s a wig ? 

[ichbin]

On 12/23/2020 at 8:48 AM, Jaclyn88 said:

I’m surprised to see everyone thinking Nicole looked horrible . Yeah she got a bunch of work done , but compared to the disastrous faces I see in Hollywood these days , I think she looks great . She’s 53 , not 33 .

Yeah, I didn't think she looked too bad at all and I was surprised that I actually noted some forehead movement.  It was her facial expressions that to me looked like amateur time.  Well, actually, I found her to be the weakest link in the entire production which was unexpected.

The fact that they were in a helicopter chasing the car along with the police, then landing on the bridge, then confronting Hugh and walking away while the police just stood there, and then flying off with the kid...c'mon, what the hell was that all about!?!  I expect to suspend disbelief to some degree while watching a movie or tv show, but this was ridiculous.

On 11/29/2020 at 9:18 PM, Valny said:

And eeew to the part where he and Elena were kissing and the string cheese between their lips came out! Oh man, I had to look away. Sorry, that just grosses me out.

That was pretty bad, but what bothered me most were the numerous close-ups of Kidman's eyes, red veins and all.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 12/1/2020 at 2:24 AM, Vella said:

As much as I love Donald Sutherland, Franklin's role was pointless and added nothing. Much of what he contributes could be parceled off to others. Sylvia's role could have been beefed up, Janel Moloney and Fala Chen could have lasted past the first 2 episodes.  His scenes mostly went nowhere. Lending Jonathan money? Dropped immediately. Threatening Jonathan? No impact. The confrontation with the principal? Dropped immediately. He always believed Jonathan was guilty, so nothing changed there.  None of his scenes with Grace were memorable or revealed anything and he always remained firmly in her corner.  I kept wondering what was the point of bringing Donald Sutherland on board?

I liked looking at his house and did enjoy the conversation between him and Grace over a game of chess. She had no idea that he was serial cheating on her mother. She had no idea Jonathan lost his job and was cheating with Elena. But you’re right. They dropped so much. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Kidman is one of my favorite actors.  There is something I really like about her American accent.  I liked her hair in this series. It reminded me of when she was in the movie about being held captive on a boat.  One of her first big roles I think.  
 

I saw her in another movie this past week that was really bizarre named Fur!  Omg. There were a lot of slow spots....and I have no idea what the ending meant.

 

[DangerousMinds]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Kidman is one of my favorite actors.  There is something I really like about her American accent.  I liked her hair in this series. It reminded me of when she was in the movie about being held captive on a boat.  One of her first big roles I think.  
 

I saw her in another movie this past week that was really bizarre named Fur!  Omg. There were a lot of slow spots....and I have no idea what the ending meant.

 

Are you familiar with Diane Arbus’s story? I’ve always found it fascinating. But this movie is only VERY loosely based on her life.

[hoodooznoodooz]

I remember liking her in To Die For and Birthday Girl.

I don’t really understand when people criticize her for looking like the Joker with the nasolabial folds. I have them, too. I haven’t had Botox or cosmetic surgery. 
 

I think that her cosmetic surgery is very well-done.

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by hoodooznoodooz

[lucindabelle]

Unconventional opinion:

Would it have been so terrible for Elena and Grace to be friends? And for the sons to be friends? After all Elena now has Jonathan’s baby. Seems like it would’ve been a way for him to see her without raising suspicions. Although the way he reacted is how I would actually expect someone to react.

 

So Nicole Kidman on the stand was utterly implausible. The lawyer already distrusted her. There’s an old saying when you’ve made the sale, stop selling. It would have made more sense if they were desperate for a character witness because things were going badly. But also, Hailey seemed surprised by the information that came out and I couldn’t help wondering why. This crack lawyer  did all this research on the jury but she apparently did no research on her own clients childhood? Why hasn’t the lawyer talked to the mother herself? Why doesn’t she seem to know about what happened to his baby sister? I’m a journalist and to my little reporter soul this was sloppy. 

 

Years ago I did a theater project with boys in a juvenile facility. Most of the boys there that we worked with had made a good impression on the counselors and their crimes were relatively minor, maybe their girlfriends were too young, (the Romeo and Juliet law where of both are teens but one underage wasn’t in effect yet), or  they’d  been convicted of shoplifting a few too many times. But one boy had killed his baby sister years before . Not the way jonathan  did either, he suffocated her with a pillow. (Who expected to find that Jonathan’s  sister had had a much more suspicious death?)

Anyway, the boy who had killed his sister was very quick to show remorse and cry and look upset whenever we did an acting game that dredged up any memories at all. It was so patently  fake. He had fooled the counselors at Juvie but he couldn’t for me, and acting teacher. He’s probably out now. 
 

by the way in “the psychopath test”

jon Ronaon says sociopath and psychopath are the same thing.

 

 

[Atia]

On 12/1/2020 at 1:52 PM, Refresh said:

I also still don't understand the detail of Jonathan's mother correcting Grace's grammar. To me that was loaded with class/educational references and possibly a clue at the environment Jonathan grew up in. And who's to say the mother was telling it as it was, that they surrounded teen Jonathan with love. Most people I know who are estranged from their families it's because the families are awful, not that they themselves are sociopaths. 

Exactly!  If I were a juror that testimony about what the mother had to say would not change my mind in any way.   She could be the psychopath!

[SteveR405]

On 11/29/2020 at 11:43 PM, kay1864 said:

So… Are there any loose ends? We never found out what the half a million was for that Grace’s father gave Jonathan.  And what the Cleveland trip was a cover for. Maybe the Jonathan/Elena liaison at the beach house?

In addition to the Cleveland trip, (1) why did Jonathan have to put on a tie if he was just going to seduce Elena? (2) why was Grace acting suspicious from the beginning even before she knew anything was up with her husband? It was her behavior that alerted the two detectives that something was up. (3) How and why did the murder victim do a revealing portrait of Grace? (4) with whom did Jonathan previously have an affair with, and (5) why does Graces' lawyer fried sleep with her daughter?

[dubbel zout]

I binged this over the past two nights and have very mixed feelings about it. I thought the show did a decent job of showing both that Jonathan's guilt was the inevitable conclusion and that someone else could have murdered Elena. For a few episodes I was convinced Donald Sutherland's character did it because he was mad about the $500,000. And I enjoyed his fury at Jonathan after he learned Jonathan had made a run for it on the day of sentencing, because it meant Franklin would be out the $2 million he put for bail. Hee. You don't fuck over very rich people.

All of the meaningful looks between Sylvia and Jonathan made me think she'd been one of his affairs. (I think it's obvious he had more than two, despite his claims otherwise.) Her breaking privilege and telling Grace that Jonathan had hired her was a shocking breach of ethics. I doubt Grace would ever rat her out to the bar, but it would seriously make me reconsider telling her anything private. That said, I love Lily Rabe and wish she'd had more to do. She ended up being more important than just the friend, but we hardly saw her.

I don't quite understand who came up with the idea for Grace to destroy Jonathan on the witness stand. Did Sylvia just help with telling the DA what Grace wanted to do, or did Sylvia come up with the plan after Grace decided Jonathan was actually guilty and she wanted to make sure he was going found guilty? And wouldn't Sylvia's involvement be another ethical breach?

As for Elena, I didn't need to know everything about her, but if what we were seeing was supposed to be how Jonathan and Grace saw her, that could have been made clearer (at least, I don't think that was clear). 

I thought Hugh Grant was terrific here, as were the two boys and Donald Sutherland. In general I like Nicole Kidman, but I don't think she was as good as Grant. Jonathan is the showier role, to be sure, but Grace was a bit too enigmatic for me, even if she was supposed to be.

If you want to see Edgar Ramirez in a truly bravado role, watch Carlos, a miniseries about Carlos the Jackal, the international terrorist in the '70s. He's AMAZING.

Rich people doing very bad things is one of my favorite genres in TV/movies/books (RIP, Dominick Dunne), and if I've learned anything, it's that if you're going to marry a rich person, make sure you're richer.

[TaraS1]

I just binged this mess over the weekend. I should have trusted my instincts and looked up spoilers after the first episode.

I’ve always liked Nicole Kidman and Hugh Grant well enough, but their bad acting combined with the terrible writing AND the weird accents and/or acting choices of almost everyone else in the cast made this one of the strangest, most pointless things I’ve watched in quite a while. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by TaraS1

[lidarose9]

I watched the first episode and the last episode and am miffed I wasted 2 hours. What a bore.

[Chaos Theory]

Rewatched this because I needed something short and easy to watch because I was bored and I remember liking this the first time around.   Yea it has some flaws and it plays different on rewatch.   I do kinda appreciate the story of a woman literally “undoing” her marriage to a sociopath.    There are a few things that still bother me but only because I am weird.   I kinda wish the show went into more detail in why the murder victim/mistress lady had naked paintings of Grace.     I also still wish there was a bigger part for Lilly Rabe but then again she is o my important in certain circles.   Still I did enjoy this on second viewing.   
 

ultimately I think this is less about the murder and more about the implosion of a marriage.

Edited August 8 by Chaos Theory