S32.E05: You Don't Strike Me as a Renaissance Man

[aghst]

1 hour ago, BarneySays said:

One of the draws of TAR, at least to me, is watching people confront and challenge their limitations- in the tasks, in interacting with locals, and in navigating their way through the world.  This is why, I would bet, some viewers miss airport drama because watching people use their wits to get to the next location as quickly as possible is entertaining.  For me, watching people- especially those who have never traveled outside the US before- deal with their foreignness- how to communicate, how to read road directions in a foreign language, learning (however simply) local customs- is one the real treasures of the show.  It's just as appealing as watching people learn to complete the road blocks and detours.  I appreciate the rules that prevent them from following cabs or locals, or using paper and pen in certain challenges, etc.

 

I don't think asking directions of strangers, whether you communicate effectively with them or not, is an interesting interaction.  No more interesting than asking someone the time.

Sometimes they establish a kind of rapport with taxi drivers and maybe they work with the taxi driver to navigate.  That may be okay.

But it doesn't add a lot to the show to have racers pester bystanders for directions.  Many are willing because they see them filming but is there much cultural or entertainment value added there?

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, aghst said:

I don't think asking directions of strangers, whether you communicate effectively with them or not, is an interesting interaction.  No more interesting than asking someone the time.

Sometimes they establish a kind of rapport with taxi drivers and maybe they work with the taxi driver to navigate.  That may be okay.

But it doesn't add a lot to the show to have racers pester bystanders for directions.  Many are willing because they see them filming but is there much cultural or entertainment value added there?

Me, personally, I don't think it's about the entertainment value.  It's about the challenge.  They're in cabs a lot of the time. But, the times they're driving, it's an extra component to be able to figure out where they're going without getting turn by turn directions on an idiot device.

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

I don't think asking directions of strangers, whether you communicate effectively with them or not, is an interesting interaction.  No more interesting than asking someone the time.

Sometimes they establish a kind of rapport with taxi drivers and maybe they work with the taxi driver to navigate.  That may be okay.

I think it would be funny to have "staged" (but unknown to the racers) bystanders available to interact with and potentially help the racers. 

We've been to France several times, and I - as an American - love to sit back and watch the difference between how the locals interact with "ugly Americans" vs polite ones.  I've seen Americans demand tickets at the ticket counter at the Eiffel Tower, throwing down American cash and repeating (increasingly slowly and louder), "Four tickets to the top.  FOUR.  TICKETS TO THE TOP" (while gesticulating wildly that they want to go to the elevator and ride up).  The ticket agent would repeat, "Je ne comprends pas" (increasingly slowly and louder) with each demand from the American.  He finally gave up, grabbed his American dollars and walked away from the ticket counter.

We were next in line.  I've had one year of high school French and have learned that you should at least TRY to communicate in the language of a person who is helping you IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.  So I said, "Bon jour.  Trois, s'il vous plaît" and handed her my credit card.  She responded (in English), "Thank you, madame; enjoy your visit."  We encountered this same situation throughout Paris in restaurants and shops.

So wouldn't it be funny if the staged helper was not permitted to help a team unless they at least greeted the "bystander" in the native language of the country?  LOL.  Yeah, I know they wouldn't do it, but it might have gotten the Newland sisters to say something other than "Merci" wherever they were.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

1 hour ago, aghst said:

I don't think asking directions of strangers, whether you communicate effectively with them or not, is an interesting interaction.  No more interesting than asking someone the time.

Sometimes they establish a kind of rapport with taxi drivers and maybe they work with the taxi driver to navigate.  That may be okay.

But it doesn't add a lot to the show to have racers pester bystanders for directions.  Many are willing because they see them filming but is there much cultural or entertainment value added there?

Me, personally, I don't think it's about the entertainment value.  It's about the challenge.  They're in cabs a lot of the time. But, the times they're driving, it's an extra component to be able to figure out where they're going without getting turn by turn directions on an idiot device.

I feel like you can learn a lot about the teams by HOW they interact with bystanders as well. Are they friendly? Rude? How easy is it for them to approach people at all? Do some teams naturally bond with strangers? Do others naturally antagonize people? Are there teams where one person is better at talking to people than the other?

It's just another layer to who they are as people and racers, and can be informative and, yes, entertaining.

[Quilt Fairy]

If teams didn't interact with bystanders we would never have met the iconic Fern. 

[mertensia]

7 hours ago, aghst said:

I don't think asking directions of strangers, whether you communicate effectively with them or not, is an interesting interaction.  No more interesting than asking someone the time.

Sometimes they establish a kind of rapport with taxi drivers and maybe they work with the taxi driver to navigate.  That may be okay.

But it doesn't add a lot to the show to have racers pester bystanders for directions.  Many are willing because they see them filming but is there much cultural or entertainment value added there?

Giving them a GPS is one step away from this becoming The Amazing Bus Tour.

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

On 11/11/2020 at 10:35 PM, Lantern7 said:

But these were Ye Olde Carnivale Games. Totally different. I kept waiting for Ye Olde Skeeball. 

[...]

I don't know how to drive stick. Is it that tough to learn? The way I've seen teams struggle with it in the past, I'd think you'd need a license to drive a stick shift.

That’s what the horse race was, Ye Olde Skeeball! Each round was determined by who scored best in the Skeeball setup (rolling the ball into bullseye hole with lower-scoring holes around it).

As for stick shift…it’s not that tough to learn. When I took driver’s ed in high school [mumble mumble] year ago, the textbook and videos were still focused on standard transmissions, even though most cars by that time were automatic. It takes a patient teacher and practice. And a car with three pedals, which is increasingly hard to find in America.

Proud owner of manual Mini here. I love driving drama. The funny thing is that even in Europe, automatic transmission has become the norm (with modern ones more fuel efficient than standard transmissions), but let’s hold onto to the “must drive stick in Europe” trope because I love it so much (and also save big bucks on rentals when I travel). I will say that I have no snark for people who struggle with reverse. I’ve had three different cars (Suzuki, VW, and Mini) and three different ways to get into reverse.

“Leo didn’t have to be an ass about it.” Hahaha yes he did. He was nice for getting Will and James up the ramp when really all he needed to do was get them out of the way. I would have had everyone behind them back up, and then backed the boys’ car down to the parking level. Then everyone else could go up and out while they figured out how to tell the difference between 1st and 3rd gear.  Never help people you want eliminated.

On 11/11/2020 at 10:04 PM, North of Eden said:

Frankly the legs in Western parts of the world are never as good...its much more fun watching the culture shock as racers are plunged into the madness of a fully crowed train in India for example.

It’s all about the tasks and drama that ensues. Some of the most memorable moments of the show have been in Western countries. Watermelon to the face. Philimination in the haystacks. Cheese rolling down the hill. I also enjoy that producers give racers more leeway in driving and making travel arrangements in Europe — that’s the real meat of the race. Too often scenes in developing countries feel like a guided tour of poverty porn for ugly Americans.

On 11/12/2020 at 10:16 AM, AZChristian said:

The most common last name in Vietnam is Nguyen . . . Newland could well be an anglicized version of that.

YES. I grew up on the Gulf Coast, half my yearbook was Nguyens. I always transliterated the pronunciation as “nwin”, but I can see how anglicizing the name could lead to Newland.

Riley and Maddison: “Dad owns a cookie restaurant.” You are my new best friends.

Hung used the strategy I would have used in the art gallery — pick a distinctive character out of the ballroom, find the painting, then go back and make sure your character matches. For the people hung (heh) up on there being only 8 or 9 matches — I think a lot of people in the room fit one of the characters to varying degrees, and you had to get the details mostly right to find the correct match. So picking any one person would have gotten you to the painting you needed, and then you could go back and get the wigs and hats and stuff correct. From what we saw, some of the correct answers were quite dubious matches -- I would bet that as long as you got a general character and the artist correct, you'd get the next clue. Or maybe they did have a short list of paintings they could have looked at first, and it wasn't really about getting lucky out of a gallery filled with a hundred portraits. 

Michelle/Victoria — whichever sister was all “stab their face hate hate hate” into the cream reminded me of Akilah’s Christmas Cookies for Singles. Heart. But then 2km and driving for hours…I can’t even. Time elapsed in car: SIX AND A HALF HOURS. Holy crap. I cannot even comprehend how bad at navigation you’d have to be to drive around for six hours and not accidentally stumble upon the place you’re trying to reach that would have been a 25-minute walk away. Glad the producers put the kibosh on locals actually leading racers to their destination, but maybe they should allow a mercy Fern after a set number of hours.

The blonde sisters are growing on me. Still can’t remember their names.

[Netfoot]

5 hours ago, Sheikh Yerbouti said:

Glad the producers put the kibosh on locals actually leading racers to their destination, but maybe they should allow a mercy Fern after a set number of hours.

Ok, I was wondering if Ferns had been banned, because I can't remember anyone using a Fern for the longest while!

[sinycalone]

I can understand the lack of airport drama....when, as we've talked about, the airlines have reduced the number of flights quite a bit.  I can live with just the occasional flight wrangling. There is always the possibility of missed connections to provide a little excitement.

This is a race that is meant to challenge the participants on many levels...and I think TAR does a great job considering how travel has changed since 2001.  Not just fewer flights, but much tighter security at airports.  And speaking of security, there are fewer countries that offer a safe environment for the teams.

I'm not interested in watching "Rick Steves well-planned tour of the world."   It's fun to see the teams adjust on the fly, approach locals for assistance, conquer some of their fears, etc.  And there is the bonus of seeing parts of the world that I'm not  likely to see on my own.

[lilysmom]

I have often thought that the producers purposely plan "catch up" times so the teams aren't in different countries/continents at the same time or get too far behind the other teams. .Catch up includes having the first team arriving at 2:00 am to a museum that doesn't open until 9:00 am, or having only 2 flights to pick from that arrive within a short amount of time at the next destination,  If I recall correctly, (which I may be totally wrong about because it was so long ago) the first season had a few teams that were a whole day ahead of the others at the finale. I don't remember the exact details, but I'm know some of you have amazing recall concerning earlier episodes and perhaps remember this. From that time on, it just seems these kinds of delays appear often enough to clump the contestants back together.

[Brookside]

 

5 hours ago, sinycalone said:

 

I'm not interested in watching "Rick Steves well-planned tour of the world."   It's fun to see the teams adjust on the fly, approach locals for assistance, conquer some of their fears, etc.  And there is the bonus of seeing parts of the world that I'm not  likely to see on my own.

I wish you hadn't posted this, because in my Covid universe just reading about the smarmy obnoxiousness know-it-all will make it happen.

[sinycalone]

I didn't mean I would be prevented from seeing some parts of the world....just that you can't visit every corner of the world so doing it vicariously is the next best thing.

[Netfoot]

6 hours ago, lilysmom said:

If I recall correctly, [...] the first season had a few teams that were a whole day ahead of the others at the finale.

Wasn't that the Guidos? Opened their clue in Alaska, only to read that Rob & Brennan had crossed the line in NYC? And in so doing inspired the word 'guidoed' to describe the situation where a team is eliminated before getting to the pit stop?

I wonder what ever became of them?

[ByaNose]

44 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Wasn't that the Guidos? Opened their clue in Alaska, only to read that Rob & Brennan had crossed the line in NYC? And in so doing inspired the word 'guidoed' to describe the situation where a team is eliminated before getting to the pit stop?

I wonder what ever became of them?

And, IIRC they were really, really in snowy Alaska with igloo and all. LOL!!! Of course, that might be my younger mind playing tricks on me. I also remember a real foot race to the finish mat for the winner. It was such a different time. The airports were so much different and casual. A lot of the teams slept there and of course, booked their own travel. Different times due to 9/11. I have no idea what Covid will do to the show and travel if and when TAR returns. The were currently filming around March and had finished 3 legs before sending everyone home. I wonder how many years until they are able to finish the race let alone airing it. Kind of sad.

[Katy M]

10 hours ago, ByaNose said:

And, IIRC they were really, really in snowy Alaska with igloo and all. LOL!!! Of course, that might be my younger mind playing tricks on me. I also remember a real foot race to the finish mat for the winner. It was such a different time. The airports were so much different and casual. A lot of the teams slept there and of course, booked their own travel. Different times due to 9/11. I have no idea what Covid will do to the show and travel if and when TAR returns. The were currently filming around March and had finished 3 legs before sending everyone home. I wonder how many years until they are able to finish the race let alone airing it. Kind of sad.

I think I remember the igloo, also.

I don't think there was a foot race to the finish mat, though. I remember the other team getting there while Rob and Brennan were making their victory speech.  They were still on the subway.  Because they thought that would be faster than a cab.  And they knew there were going to win because they knew New York so well.

[jah1986]

15 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think I remember the igloo, also.

I don't think there was a foot race to the finish mat, though. I remember the other team getting there while Rob and Brennan were making their victory speech.  They were still on the subway.  Because they thought that would be faster than a cab.  And they knew there were going to win because they knew New York so well.

That will never get old for me. That was the first episode of the Race that I ever saw and I thought it was fascinating watching this couple realize they hadn't won this race just because they were from NY.

I think the race to the mat came the next season.

I have a really bad feeling Will and James are going to win this season.

Edited November 16, 2020 by jah1986
Will and James are partners, not Leo and James

[Katy M]

On 11/14/2020 at 4:28 PM, AZChristian said:

We were next in line.  I've had one year of high school French and have learned that you should at least TRY to communicate in the language of a person who is helping you IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.  So I said, "Bon jour.  Trois, s'il vous plaît" and handed her my credit card.  She responded (in English), "Thank you, madame; enjoy your visit."  We encountered this same situation throughout Paris in restaurants and shops.

This was my experience is France also. I would speak in (I'm sure quite terrible french) and they would respond in English.  The exception tot hat was when were in a subway station and my friend needed a bathroom.  I said "we're two blocks from the hotel, can't you wait?"  "No."  So, we're looking around and a man asked if we needed help.  I told him we were looking for a bathroom.  He looked then asked someone else and gave us this whole string of French that I think understood one word out of.  But, he was also shaking his head, so I turned to my friend and said "there isn't one." 

[dgpolo]

5 hours ago, jah1986 said:

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

I think I remember the igloo, also.

I don't think there was a foot race to the finish mat, though. I remember the other team getting there while Rob and Brennan were making their victory speech.  They were still on the subway.  Because they thought that would be faster than a cab.  And they knew there were going to win because they knew New York so well.

That will never get old for me. That was the first episode of the Race that I ever saw and I thought it was fascinating watching this couple realize they hadn't won this race just because they were from NY.

I think the race to the mat came the next season.

I have a really bad feeling Will and James are going to win this season.

Spoiler

No igloo, just a lodge. Footrace to the mat was season 2. Don't think they interrupted a victory speech but I'm sure Phil kept them talking until F&M arrived. They were on the subway because they were supposed to take the subway at that point, the cab was earlier, because their cab took slightly longer than R&B's cab, F&M missed the train R&B were on and from that moment there was really no way they could catch up.

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

This was my experience is France also. I would speak in (I'm sure quite terrible french) and they would respond in English.  The exception tot hat was when were in a subway station and my friend needed a bathroom.  I said "we're two blocks from the hotel, can't you wait?"  "No."

So funny! I had the same experience in Montreal, everywhere I went people would switch to English when they heard me except for the guy in the subway station! no English, I needed to know which stop to get out at for a certain place. I think I got him to understand enough that he pointed it out on a map for me.

So far I can tolerate Will and James, no one is bugging me so much that I want them off my screen. I think I'd be happiest if the football players won but I don't think I'd be too upset by anyone else.

Bunching points have been the norm since at least season 5, if not before. Phil has to be able to check in the last team to arrive and the first one to arrive on the next leg.

[ML89]

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

This was my experience is France also. I would speak in (I'm sure quite terrible french) and they would respond in English.  The exception tot hat was when were in a subway station and my friend needed a bathroom.  I said "we're two blocks from the hotel, can't you wait?"  "No."  So, we're looking around and a man asked if we needed help.  I told him we were looking for a bathroom.  He looked then asked someone else and gave us this whole string of French that I think understood one word out of.  But, he was also shaking his head, so I turned to my friend and said "there isn't one." 

My experience as well. Despite having a French name and a French father, I did not inherit his gift for languages and I was years past my French minor when I got to France, but if I tried, the French folks would speak back to me in English (thankfully!) - I think they wanted the practice. The French expression for bad pronunciation is to speak French like a Spanish cow (I have no idea why!). I spoke French like an American cow. But the French were happy I'd made an effort.

I can't imagine six hours in a car - a friend and I were in Houston, missed an exit and then drove around for ninety minutes trying to get off the highway and find the hotel we were looking for. That's my limit.

 

 

 

 

 

[lilysmom]

21 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Wasn't that the Guidos? Opened their clue in Alaska, only to read that Rob & Brennan had crossed the line in NYC? And in so doing inspired the word 'guidoed' to describe the situation where a team is eliminated before getting to the pit stop?

I wonder what ever became of them?

See, I knew someone would remember more of the details than I did! Thanks!!

[Quilt Fairy]

5 hours ago, dgpolo said:

So funny! I had the same experience in Montreal, everywhere I went people would switch to English when they heard me except for the guy in the subway station! no English, I needed to know which stop to get out at for a certain place. I think I got him to understand enough that he pointed it out on a map for me.

This reminds me when I was in a subway in Munich and we were trying to figure out how to get a ticket. It was all self-service, and on the honor system (which was certainly not my experience riding the CTA in Chicago).  Frustrated, I told my companion  "Let's go ahead and get on a train without a ticket.  When they come to arrest us, we can ask them how to get one."  Eventually a man came up and helped us, speaking English.  After we had gotten our tickets and were all going down the escalator to the trains, I commented on his beautiful English and he replied "I am English, actually."  I was just a little bit embarrassed. 

The Guidos were not the only team to be a day out of sync in the early seasons when they were choosing their own flights.  I believe Colin and Christie had a day on everyone getting to Egypt, but lost the advantage due to HOO at a pyramid, IIRC.  In another season the teams were flying from somewhere in South America to London and a team of older ladies ended up going through New York while everyone else got a direct flight.  

Edited November 16, 2020 by Quilt Fairy

[Netfoot]

2 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

The Guidos were not the only team to be a day out of sync in the early seasons when they were choosing their own flights.  I believe Colin and Christie had a day on everyone getting to Egypt, but lost the advantage due to HOO at a pyramid, IIRC.  In another season the teams were flying from somewhere in South America to London and a team of older ladies ended up going through New York while everyone else got a direct flight.

I seem to remember in TAR All-Stars Charla & Snarla were 24 hours ahead somewhere around Mozambique or Zanzibar and the entire race was bunched as a result of a storm warning in the area. (They were scheduled to travel by boat, and there was the risk of large waves, or something like that.)

[Maverick]

 I think the Goats were also a full day behind too, whatever season they were in.  I think the final leg was in Hawaii and they never made it there. 

 In their original season, Colin and Christie were almost a full day ahead and it took an Hour's of Operation or some similar stall to get the teams/show back on sync.   After the early seasons and situations like this I think is when the show started introducing more limited flight destinations, boats/trains with limited departures and hours of operation tasks to counteract it. 

[Roccos Brother]

Unpopular opinion - as abrasive as the sisters were, I actually found their aggressive competitiveness entertaining and amusing to watch.

[Ducky]

On 11/11/2020 at 9:19 PM, mojoween said:

My husband once - ONCE - tried to teach me how to drive a stick.  I ground the gears, stalled the engine and nearly gave us whiplash.  And that was that.

LOL... That's me too.  My mother and sister took me to the nearby elementary school (that us kids went to) and taught me how to drive stick shift.  I don't remember but I think I did ok in the parking lot...but the next part I remember too well.  They told me I could drive them home (not very far)...so as I approached the exit, car's in third gear, I stalled out.  Then promptly restarted the car... in third gear.  Mother and sister looked at each other... "get out of the car...you ain't driving home" (paraphrased lol).  I have not driven stick shift since then.  Have had at least 2 friends promise they'd teach me.  One never got around to it- the other one lives on the west coast; I'm east coast. 

[Carolina Girl]

On 11/11/2020 at 7:00 PM, toodywoody said:

Now onto Will and Whine bitching about Leo, look mfs he helped get your ass out of the way. He didn't have to do that shit. And if Will was having problems driving he should have waited and let the others go. Instead he pulled a dick move by not moving over before he got up the ramp.  Leo did not have to help their asses and was showing that he was the bigger person by helping them get the hell out of the way. But then for them to be bitching about him when their asses uturned them, like really,  did you expect him to be nice to you and I honestly didn't think he was being like they say he was. So they can fuck off with that. They are officially on my I cannot wait for your ass to get eliminated list. 

Thank you.  I was beginning to think I was the only one who found those two completely annoying.  "Oh, our alliance!"  

[BluBarbi98]

To add to everyone's I speak French horribly stories: When I was in Paris in 2018, I asked for directions as I was leaving the subway (I had practiced the sentence the entire trip) and the subway attendant responded in English, "I appreciate you trying but I speak English". LOL!!!!! I was both grateful and embarrassed at how awful I must have sounded.

Regarding Michelle & Victoria, I think the taller nicer sister (I she's Victoria) was over it. Maybe it's just the editing but at one point it just looked like she wasn't even trying while sitting in the back. I have moments like this when I'm dealing with excessively obnoxious people and just check out.

Years ago a family friend who is also a a huge TAR fan asked me if I would go on the show with them and I declined. I would love to participate on TAR but I knew that our personalities would not mesh well especially under such stressful circumstances and couldn't bring myself to try it even for $1 million.