S01.E04: Memento Mori

[Door County Cherry]

Aired 4/21/20

Quote

Eliza is hired by a Death Photographer who is receiving bizarre and threatening messages from beyond the grave, and later makes a surprising discovery about her late father.

 

[nara]

I really enjoyed the episode though I guessed straight away that the daughter was involved, but I thought she was annoyed by her dad’s remarriage....

I like that Wellington gave Eliza press, but it would have meant more if he thought he could still get the promotion. Still, I suspect that this is a turning point for their cooperation.

Btw, I assumed that part of Wellington’s desire to get promoted was so that he could be well established and ask Eliza to marry him. Perhaps I am wrong, because he doesn’t seem to acknowledge his obvious attraction to her. I mean, this is the most eye-sex I’ve seen since season 1 of Outlander...

[Scarlett45]

11 hours ago, nara said:

Btw, I assumed that part of Wellington’s desire to get promoted was so that he could be well established and ask Eliza to marry him. Perhaps I am wrong, because he doesn’t seem to acknowledge his obvious attraction to her. I mean, this is the most eye-sex I’ve seen since season 1 of Outlander...

I think Wellington has been attracted to Eliza since they were teens, but never pursued it because he knew she would turn him down (it doesnt seem that she wishes to marry) and his ego just couldnt take it. Yes he absolutely wants her, I think she likes him, but wouldnt be willing to marry him and give up her freedoms. I think she may be open to marriage IF she knew that he would support her being the type of woman she wants to be (keeping her business etc).

I know that the deceased wife was depressed, and I am so sorry she killed herself, but to involve her DAUGHTER in that revenge plot? That was awful. NO excuse for that. I can understand wanting to upset her husband and being angry about the affair, but to have her daughter deliver the letters photos......no just no.

No Moses this week!

[chaifan]

As someone who doesn't have cable and relies on network and streaming services for entertainment, I have to say I'm so happy to have another weekly show to watch.  As much as I love streaming, I sort of miss "appointment" tv, and being forced to wait a week between episodes.

I am really enjoying this show.  I stumbled on the first episode by chance.  One thing that I think I missed up until this episode was "the Duke".  This is the first episode I recall anyone referring to Wellington as "Duke".  I'm not even sure the point of making him titled.  I did like how Eliza and his relationship moved a bit forward this time, and we got a little background of them growing up together and his relationship with Eliza's father.

I agree that he probably wants to marry her more than she does him.  But I think part of that is due to his being somewhat of a party boy.  Eliza comments almost every episode about his drinking, hangover, etc., and it's clear she has no desire to have a relationship with someone who is a bit of a lush.  This might be one of those situations where you know someone too well to want to get into a serious relationship with them.  Of course, I still fully expect them to have a passionate kiss by the end of this season, and to keep the "will they/won't they" question going. 

I'm curious to see where things go with Rupert and Miss. H.  I feel bad for her if she is an unknowing accomplice to Rupert's deception.  I have a feeling Eliza will intervene here.  I do like Rupert, though.  He's a fun character. 

And as for Moses, I got the impression Wellington scared him off for good.  I would have loved him to stick around and be a permanent part, but with him gone this episode I'm thinking he's gone.

[dargosmydaddy]

13 minutes ago, chaifan said:

One thing that I think I missed up until this episode was "the Duke".  This is the first episode I recall anyone referring to Wellington as "Duke".  I'm not even sure the point of making him titled. 

He's not titled. It's a nickname, since his last name is Wellington and there was an actual (famous) Duke of Wellington. 

[nara]

1 hour ago, dargosmydaddy said:

He's not titled. It's a nickname, since his last name is Wellington and there was an actual (famous) Duke of Wellington. 

I am hoping that a criminal called Napoleon shows up

[Daff]

Moses isn’t gone for good. He’s credited on IMDb for both eps 5 and 6. Most likely, Eliza will seek him out for collection/information. He’ll be evasive and abrasive, not wanting her to know he was warned off. Eventually, she’ll find out that Wellington threatened him and another argument will ensue. I’m more curious as to how she’ll get the housekeeper to accept Moses part in the business. 

[Nolefan]

As the episodes progress, I am not only completely on board the Eliza and William ship, I am the idiot at the bow of the boat with her arm stretched out wide, hair blowing in the wind exclaming that “I am the king of the world!” Love these two!

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think Wellington has been attracted to Eliza since they were teens, but never pursued it because he knew she would turn him down (it doesnt seem that she wishes to marry) and his ego just couldnt take it. Yes he absolutely wants her, I think she likes him, but wouldnt be willing to marry him and give up her freedoms.

I agree. I think William is head over heels in love with Eliza and has been since he was a teenager. I think Eliza is in love with William, too, but she just doesn’t realize (or doesn’t want to admit to herself) the extent of her  attraction to him because she really wants to have her career, and she cannot have both (at least at this point). She seems to bring up his dalliances with other women A LOT. This shows two things to me. First, she has a lot of low key jealousy of the attention she perceives he is giving to other women. Second, it is her way of keeping him hanging on to her (i.e., it is your behavior that is preventing you from obtaining what you want (me), and you may have a chance with me if you demonstrate to me that you can improve yourself). I am confident that Eliza would be thoroughly crushed if he actually did find a “nice” girl and settled down with her, but right now they have sorta found a spot “together” where they are kinda “together” but not really “together” and are able to bide their time while they both work out the issues (both collective and separate) holding them back from a commitment to each other.

Which brings me to William/Duke. I think he feels that he is not good enough for Eliza. His backstory— according to the actor in the Masterpiece IG live chat last week — is that he was street boy (like the kid from the first episode) rescued by Henry Scarlet. I think this episode shows that, despite all his bravado, in his mind and in his current life, he is still struggling with being that street boy. And he probably on some level thinks a women like Eliza could ever really love him. I don’t think this a a hindrance in Eliza’s mind, but I do feel it plays a large role in his fear of rejection by Eliza.

I love the “apology” scene between William and Eliza at the end. I teared up a bit. Both actors are amazing. On another note, it was good to see in the IG chat how much both actors loved and cared about their characters—and were willing to give their views on their characters motivations and feelings. It was really neat!

[kitmerlot1213]

16 hours ago, nara said:

Btw, I assumed that part of Wellington’s desire to get promoted was so that he could be well established and ask Eliza to marry him. Perhaps I am wrong, because he doesn’t seem to acknowledge his obvious attraction to her. I mean, this is the most eye-sex I’ve seen since season 1 of Outlander...

I don't think William is anywhere close to proposing to Eliza--on his best day, he can barely admit that he even likes her--of course we all know why she infuriates him, but the poor man seems clueless 🙂   I was actually wondering if his being passed over for promotion would anger him enough to quit the force and become Eliza's partner.

[magdalene]

I don't see how they could ever be in a happy marriage together unless they both underwent a personality and attitude change.

This show has grown on me and I am hoping for a second season. Does it have a chance of it?

[dargosmydaddy]

10 minutes ago, magdalene said:

This show has grown on me and I am hoping for a second season. Does it have a chance of it?

It's already been renewed, though the filming for the second season was delayed due to Covid.

[Nolefan]

8 minutes ago, magdalene said:

This show has grown on me and I am hoping for a second season. Does it have a chance of it?

While there has not been an official announcement, the actors seemed pretty confident in the IG live chat that there was going to be a S2, even giving hints as to what kind of things S2 will include. I think the production is just waiting on navigating the COVD mess.

[Scarlett45]

28 minutes ago, Nolefan said:

As the episodes progress, I am not only completely on board the Eliza and William ship, I am the idiot at the bow of the boat with her arm stretched out wide, hair blowing in the wind exclaming that “I am the king of the world!” Love these two!

I agree. I think William is head over heels in love with Eliza and has been since he was a teenager. I think Eliza is in love with William, too, but she just doesn’t realize (or doesn’t want to admit to herself) the extent of her  attraction to him because she really wants to have her career, and she cannot have both (at least at this point). She seems to bring up his dalliances with other women A LOT. This shows two things to me. First, she has a lot of low key jealousy of the attention she perceives he is giving to other women. Second, it is her way of keeping him hanging on to her (i.e., it is your behavior that is preventing you from obtaining what you want (me), and you may have a chance with me if you demonstrate to me that you can improve yourself). I am confident that Eliza would be thoroughly crushed if he actually did find a “nice” girl and settled down with her, but right now they have sorta found a spot “together” where they are kinda “together” but not really “together” and are able to bide their time while they both work out the issues (both collective and separate) holding them back from a commitment to each other.

Which brings me to William/Duke. I think he feels that he is not good enough for Eliza. His backstory— according to the actor in the Masterpiece IG live chat last week — is that he was street boy (like the kid from the first episode) rescued by Henry Scarlet. I think this episode shows that, despite all his bravado, in his mind and in his current life, he is still struggling with being that street boy. And he probably on some level thinks a women like Eliza could ever really love him. I don’t think this a a hindrance in Eliza’s mind, but I do feel it plays a large role in his fear of rejection by Eliza.

I love the “apology” scene between William and Eliza at the end. I teared up a bit. Both actors are amazing. On another note, it was good to see in the IG chat how much both actors loved and cared about their characters—and were willing to give their views on their characters motivations and feelings. It was really neat!

I could see all this too. William (Stuart Martin) is a fine specimen of manhood*- Eliza thinks he is hot, and values his friendship, and likes to talk to him. She also knows how much her father loved him. A part of her is jealous at the sexual attention he pays other women (Eliza may be "odd" by the standards of the society but I am sure people have told her she is attractive), but she also knows he isnt engaged, or married or even seriously courting anyone (If he was I think she would distance herself because of honor and her feelings would butt hurt)- Eliza isnt that socially inept to know that there is an attraction between them.

 

*OMG he was so hot in Jamestown, with no beard and fewer clothes!

[rove4]

18 hours ago, nara said:

I like that Wellington gave Eliza press, but it would have meant more if he thought he could still get the promotion. Still, I suspect that this is a turning point for their cooperation.

Sometimes you have to walk a bit in someone else's shoes to truly get where they're coming from.  I think that being unfairly passed over for a promotion gave Wellington a taste of the unfair biases that Eliza faces every day. 

 

What a fun show!  I've been enjoying it immensely. The chemistry between the actors is lightning in a bottle. Showrunners always hope for it but it doesn't always happen.

I really enjoy Rupert, too.  I wish there was more of him. 

[Nolefan]

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

I don't see how they could ever be in a happy marriage together unless they both underwent a personality and attitude change.

Actually, I think they are a pretty good match. I think there would be a problem if one of them disliked conflict. But both seem to enjoy the sparring, bantering, and arguing — they would be the Bickersons.

[rove4]

I agree.  I don't think that Wellington, deep down, would want a long term romantic partner who was demure and always deferring to him.  It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Eliza is the standard for women in his mind, whether he's consciously aware of it or not. And Eliza would surely never want a man who would never stand up to her.  She'd never respect a man who would let her walk all over him or lead him around by the nose.  

[tennisgurl]

I really liked this episode, the chemistry between Eliza and William was off the charts, and the case of the week was quite interesting. I have always found the spiritualist movement to be really interesting, as well as the Victorian "Death Photography", both of which were very popular at the time, along with seeing ghosts in pictures, so I really enjoyed the whole story. I suspected the daughter about halfway in, but I thought that she was upset about her dad and governess getting married so soon after her mom died, not that it was some seriously fucked up revenge scheme by the dead mom. Really, the governess kind of got it right, the letters really were revenge from beyond the grave by the deceased first wife, just not in the way she thought. Its very sad that the first wife killed herself and was clearly ill, and it really sucks that she was being cheated on, but involving her daughter in this twisted scheme is just horrible, and there is no excuse. Seriously, people on this show do not take being rejected/cheated on well at all. 

I am glad that William finally gave Eliza her due to the press, especially considering, as she pointed out, he should understand some of what she is going through, experiencing discrimination based on birth in their chosen profession. We have gotten some bits of his backstory, but I think its implied that he was once a poor street kid who her father took under his wing, and that led to him becoming a cop and basically growing up with Eliza, and is also why he is facing a brick wall when it comes to getting a promotion in the department, not being from a wealthy and "respectable" family that has known all of the other respectable families for generations. I wonder if at least a bit of the reason why he wants the promotion is because he feels like he still isn't good enough for Eliza? I don't think he is going to try to start something any time soon, and I don't think Eliza would be interested, as she is focused on her work and not on possibly getting married, but they are certainly very interested in each other, even if they don't want to admit it. As much as they seem to annoy each other, I don't think that either of them would want to be married to someone who couldn't keep up with them and match them in intellect and determination. 

Nice seeing Rupert again, hopefully Moses shows up again soon. Eliza is going to be pissed when she finds out that William tried to scare him off.  

[nara]

7 hours ago, chaifan said:

I agree that he probably wants to marry her more than she does him.  But I think part of that is due to his being somewhat of a party boy.  Eliza comments almost every episode about his drinking, hangover, etc., and it's clear she has no desire to have a relationship with someone who is a bit of a lush.  This might be one of those situations where you know someone too well to want to get into a serious relationship with them.  Of course, I still fully expect them to have a passionate kiss by the end of this season, and to keep the "will they/won't they" question going.

I am not a big fan of graphic love scenes in TV and movies (I'm looking at you, Bridgerton!), but I'm seriously hoping that her fancy new desk will see some action before the end of the season.  Unlikely, given that this is on PBS and not HBO, so I may have to resort to fan fiction,

3 hours ago, Nolefan said:

As the episodes progress, I am not only completely on board the Eliza and William ship, I am the idiot at the bow of the boat with her arm stretched out wide, hair blowing in the wind exclaming that “I am the king of the world!” Love these two!

I agree. I think William is head over heels in love with Eliza and has been since he was a teenager. I think Eliza is in love with William, too, but she just doesn’t realize (or doesn’t want to admit to herself) the extent of her  attraction to him because she really wants to have her career, and she cannot have both (at least at this point). She seems to bring up his dalliances with other women A LOT. This shows two things to me. First, she has a lot of low key jealousy of the attention she perceives he is giving to other women. Second, it is her way of keeping him hanging on to her (i.e., it is your behavior that is preventing you from obtaining what you want (me), and you may have a chance with me if you demonstrate to me that you can improve yourself). I am confident that Eliza would be thoroughly crushed if he actually did find a “nice” girl and settled down with her, but right now they have sorta found a spot “together” where they are kinda “together” but not really “together” and are able to bide their time while they both work out the issues (both collective and separate) holding them back from a commitment to each other.

Which brings me to William/Duke. I think he feels that he is not good enough for Eliza. His backstory— according to the actor in the Masterpiece IG live chat last week — is that he was street boy (like the kid from the first episode) rescued by Henry Scarlet. I think this episode shows that, despite all his bravado, in his mind and in his current life, he is still struggling with being that street boy. And he probably on some level thinks a women like Eliza could ever really love him. I don’t think this a a hindrance in Eliza’s mind, but I do feel it plays a large role in his fear of rejection by Eliza.

I think you're spot on with your analysis for their feelings.  His sense that he is not good enough (in general) has been ground into him for a long time.  We saw evidence of it with the Superintendent.  BTW, I believe that even as late as WWI, officers were primarily people of aristocratic birth, not necessarily people of demonstrated leadership capability.  That hierarchy and club attitude is definitely omnipresent during this period (we say it in the previous episode too with the Brownlee Club).  That's why I thought that getting promoted might be way to try to make himself good enough for Eliza, but I can buy into the consensus that it might be subconscious and he may not be entirely aware of this goal.  Ironically, I don't think Eliza thinks of him as anything less than an equal. She's annoyed that he thinks she is "less than" for being a woman, and doesn't even notice his fear that he is "less than".

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I could see all this too. William (Stuart Martin) is a fine specimen of manhood*- Eliza thinks he is hot, and values his friendship, and likes to talk to him. She also knows how much her father loved him. A part of her is jealous at the sexual attention he pays other women (Eliza may be "odd" by the standards of the society but I am sure people have told her she is attractive), but she also knows he isnt engaged, or married or even seriously courting anyone (If he was I think she would distance herself because of honor and her feelings would butt hurt)- Eliza isnt that socially inept to know that there is an attraction between them.

She is absolutely jealous, but I think Eliza is innocent in some ways, despite being wicked smart. I think she would never recognize the feelings of jealousy unless something specific happened, like he got into a relationship.  BTW, was I the only one wondering if she was a little worried that the charming friend who was coming to walk with the Hildegardes was Wellington?

1 hour ago, rove4 said:

I agree.  I don't think that Wellington, deep down, would want a long term romantic partner who was demure and always deferring to him.  It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Eliza is the standard for women in his mind, whether he's consciously aware of it or not. And Eliza would surely never want a man who would never stand up to her.  She'd never respect a man who would let her walk all over him or lead him around by the nose.  

They are actually well suited to each other. 

Overall, I really enjoy Eliza as a character, and I think it's because she does have some imperfections that make her more realistic.

1.  She was kinda rude to Mr. Hildegarde in the previous episode and in this one too initially.  I hope she's learned that she cannot afford to dismiss anyone without listening.

2.  She's smart, but a little naive.  In the first episode, she waltzed into a disreputable place and went into room alone with a man much stronger than her.  She made a  similar mistake in the second episode, when she brought a tiny pocket knife to a gun fight.  She has the confidence and single-mindedness of someone raised in privilege who believes everything will work out. This is helpful because a person needs ridiculous confidence to accomplish what she is trying to do, but it also puts her in very risky positions.  I don't blame Wellington for trying to keep her away from the business--he must be terrified for her safety because she so blithely ignores risks (though of course, some of it is due to historical norms for women).  Even police officers go in teams! His anger towards Moses coming to her home reflects that fear.

That naivete and single-mindedness reflects in her relationship with Wellington.  Anyone more worldly would not fail to see his obvious interest in her, but she reacts like a school girl--thinking it's just a friendship. 

I thought her naivete showed in episode #2, when Rupert Parker had to really push to get her to understand that he was gay.  I don't think she ever considered it, despite his stated dislike for any of the women paraded in front of him

3.  She is still learning the skills of the trade.  Her inability to get paid, the fact that she was played by the little girl AND the fake client. I like the fact that she is not automatically brilliant in the business of being a detective.

4.  She is annoying as hell, but her clear ability takes the edge off.  Kinda reminds me of Steve Jobs or Elon Musk that way that their obvious talents make one tolerate their other annoying behaviors.

5.  Her charm does not work on everyone.  I like that Frank was having none of it! One of the things that was ridiculous on Homeland was Carrie's ability to seduce EVERYONE.

 

Sorry for the long post.  Actually, NOT SORRY! I come for the show's premise, but stay for the ability to analyze the relationships!

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by nara

[Nolefan]

1 hour ago, nara said:

Overall, I really enjoy Eliza as a character, and I think it's because she does have some imperfections that make her more realistic.

1.  She was kinda rude to Mr. Hildegarde in the previous episode and in this one too initially.  I hope she's learned that she cannot afford to dismiss anyone without listening.

2.  She's smart, but a little naive.  In the first episode, she waltzed into a disreputable place and went into room alone with a man much stronger than her.  She made a  similar mistake in the second episode, when she brought a tiny pocket knife to a gun fight.  She has the confidence and single-mindedness of someone raised in privilege who believes everything will work out. This is helpful because a person needs ridiculous confidence to accomplish what she is trying to do, but it also puts her in very risky positions.  I don't blame Wellington for trying to keep her away from the business--he must be terrified for her safety because she so blithely ignores risks (though of course, some of it is due to historical norms for women).  Even police officers go in teams! His anger towards Moses coming to her home reflects that fear.

That naivete and single-mindedness reflects in her relationship with Wellington.  Anyone more worldly would not fail to see his obvious interest in her, but she reacts like a school girl--thinking it's just a friendship. 

I thought her naivete showed in episode #2, when Rupert Parker had to really push to get her to understand that he was gay.  I don't think she ever considered it, despite his stated dislike for any of the women paraded in front of him

3.  She is still learning the skills of the trade.  Her inability to get paid, the fact that she was played by the little girl AND the fake client. I like the fact that she is not automatically brilliant in the business of being a detective.

4.  She is annoying as hell, but her clear ability takes the edge off.  Kinda reminds me of Steve Jobs or Elon Musk that way that their obvious talents make one tolerate their other annoying behaviors.

5.  Her charm does not work on everyone.  I like that Frank was having none of it! One of the things that was ridiculous on Homeland was Carrie's ability to seduce EVERYONE.

 

Sorry for the long post.  Actually, NOT SORRY! I come for the show's premise, but stay for the ability to analyze the relationships!

 

 

 

 

I am glad you brought this up because I also like Eliza because of her imperfections. I like that she is not being portrayed as some super woman. The scene where Eliza needed Duke to strong arm the desk clerk boy because she failed to get him to allow her to see the telegram was hysterical.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Nolefan

[pezgirl7]

I enjoyed this episode. Favorite bits were William yelling at the White Rabbit clerk and Eliza telling William, Oh, you're experiencing prejudice in your job, whatever might that feel like? I didn't think the daughter had anything to do with the photos, since I thought she lacked the skill. So that was a surprise. Hopefully her father or new mom gives her some rouge to play with so she's not always pricking her finger! Yikes.

There was definitely some eye sex on the part of William in this episode, which I didn't really see in earlier episodes. And he was softer with Eliza than he has been in the past, so I think he's starting to realize his feelings for her. I don't know if he full on loves her yet, or would even consider marrying her. He honestly doesn't seem like the marrying type to me, but who knows. I also didn't get the feeling from Eliza that she was that interested in William, but reading this thread, I have changed my mine! lol  I don't really know what a courtship between the two of them would like. I think it would be a bit unusual and fun to watch!

I watched some of season 1 of Jamestown, and although I thought Stuart Martin was cute, the level of attractiveness was nothing like it is here. Holy heck, William is FINE. He can pull off a beard, which many men can't, and his Scottish accent is swoon worthy. Someone pass the smelling salts. I'm really looking forward to next week where we'll get this scene 😅 (not spoilery to the plot, but is still a spoiler)

[libgirl2]

5 hours ago, rove4 said:

I agree.  I don't think that Wellington, deep down, would want a long term romantic partner who was demure and always deferring to him.  It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Eliza is the standard for women in his mind, whether he's consciously aware of it or not. And Eliza would surely never want a man who would never stand up to her.  She'd never respect a man who would let her walk all over him or lead him around by the nose.  

He would be bored in a matter of weeks. I agree, I think he really is crazy for her, he probably doesn't even realize how much.....sure she infuriates him, but he likes the challenge and vice versa. 

That is one handsome man. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by libgirl2

[rove4]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I have always found the spiritualist movement to be really interesting, as well as the Victorian "Death Photography", both of which were very popular at the time, along with seeing ghosts in pictures, so I really enjoyed the whole story.

Yes, such a macabre practice.  There's a newish period show about a postmortem photographer on Acorn (also available on Amazon Prime Video, I think) called Dead Still.  I mean I guess I can sort of understand the need to have a picture but, still, kind of creepy. 😳

[rove4]

2 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

I'm really looking forward to next week where we'll get this scene 😅 (not spoilery to the plot, but is still a spoiler)

Wow.  I heard the director say in a Q&A that his favorite episode was Stuart taking off his shirt but I thought he was just joking!  😍  I'll be replaying that scene for sure. 

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

. Favorite bits were William yelling at the White Rabbit clerk and Eliza telling William,

"Are you crying?" "...no..." "He's practically a child!" "You told me to frighten him!" 

Yeah, the smash cut from Eliza and William talking on the street to William screaming at the clerk was pretty hilarious. The two of them really are a great team when they're on the same page. 

[Nolefan]

I thought the apology scene at the end was perfection — the emotions between the two were palpable. It showed, especially on Duke’s part, their underlying love for each other. Duke, in a very special way, made a heartfelt apology to Eliza, and Eliza was more than willing to forgive him. I need a tissue...

[Gizkok]

My thoughts about Moses - I was thinking that the entire scene with William threatening him away was just for show.  Could be that actually Moses is working for him, too, keeping an eye on Eliza for him.

[Nolefan]

1 hour ago, Gizkok said:

My thoughts about Moses - I was thinking that the entire scene with William threatening him away was just for show.  Could be that actually Moses is working for him, too, keeping an eye on Eliza for him.

I don’t think so. Both men were alone during their head to head, so no one to show. I think William does not want Moses around Eliza just for the reason he stated — Moses is a criminal. William indicated in their confrontation that Moses has a long rap sheet, including fraud and extortion. And I think William in his admitted indirect spying — my guess via the street boy from episode 1 — on ElIza knew the “associate” that Eliza mentioned to him in episode 3 was Moses.  William is terrified that Eliza’s association with Moses will further plunge Eliza into some very dark world (which William experiences everyday) that Eliza is not prepared to deal with. I think it was consistent with his reaction (yelling at Eliza about not understanding the danger she put herself in when she got mixed up with the phony uncle/husband with the long rap sheet) in episode 1. I think William will probably come to trust Moses in the future, through Eliza, but I definitely think William thinks Moses is bad news and needs to stay far far away from Eliza at this point in the story.

I add that William’s protectiveness over  Eliza was further shown in this episode when he threatened to throw Frank through the wall when he made the dirty comment about Eliza.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Nolefan

[RedbirdNelly]

I missed Moses but otherwise enjoyed the episode. Like others, the White Rabbit clerk scene was especially fun. I like how Eliza has skill but isn't all perfect.

[cardigirl]

I came here to say how much I'm enjoying Andrew Gower as Rupert.  He was wonderful in Outlander as Bonnie Prince Charlie, and he's doing a great job here, too.  All of the characters are really being given lots of depth. I'm enjoying this more with each passing episode.  

[Ceindreadh]

18 hours ago, rove4 said:

Yes, such a macabre practice.  There's a newish period show about a postmortem photographer on Acorn (also available on Amazon Prime Video, I think) called Dead Still.  I mean I guess I can sort of understand the need to have a picture but, still, kind of creepy. 😳

Oh do watch it if you get a chance.  It's fun and quirky and creepy in equal measures, IMO. 

[RedbirdNelly]

I also liked how Eliza and the Duke seemed to understand each other better by the end of the episode. Nice to see some character growth versus the same thing with no improved understanding. 

[HoodlumSheep]

Still loving eliza and rupert's friendship. Loved their chat. Just two friends hanging out; so good. When rupert suggested he and eliza get hitched just as a cover up, i found myself saying, 'why not?' That'd be an interesting dynamic. Lol. I think eliza's right though, they'd eventually drive each other crazy.

I feel like i would have liked the Duke's newspaper apology a tad bit more had it not come immediately after him getting slighted by that lousy boss of his. I enjoyed that scene between them, regardless of my nitpicks.

I hope this is a turning point for Wellington tho. Hopefully he won't spend so much time trying to please his ungrateful boss.

That poor White Rabbit clerk. Lololololol. 

Missed Moses but i'm sure he'll show up again soon.

Edited February 10, 2021 by HoodlumSheep

[Nolefan]

9 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Still loving eliza and rupert's friendship. Loved their chat. Just two friends hanging out; so good. When rupert suggested he and eliza get hitched just as a cover up, i found myself saying, 'why not?' That'd be an interesting dynamic. Lol. I think eliza's right though, they'd eventually drive each other crazy.

I feel like i would have liked the Duke's newspaper apology a tad bit more had it not come immediately after him getting slighted by that lousy boss of his. I enjoyed that scene between them, regardless of my nitpicks.

My first reaction to Rupert’s suggested arrangement with Eliza was the same as yours. Why not?? Eliza knows the truth about Rupert, and Rupert has shown that he is willing to finance her dream and won’t get in the way of her doing what she wants to do, so why not?? I suspect the reason she doesn’t want to enter into a marriage with Rupert is because of the person she was all worked up about while talking to Rupert — William. I think Eliza knows that marrying Rupert would totally change her relationship with William, and foreclose the possibility of her someday getting together (and marrying) William. As I discussed above, I believe Eliza is in love with William (she just doesn’t want or cannot admit to herself the extent of her attraction to him at this point). However, she is not ready at the point to choose between him and her career. I really think that deep down inside of her she is hoping to figure a way to have both — William and her career — so she wants William to keep hanging in there until she is ready for this to happen.

In regard to William’s apology, I actually thought it meant more because of what he just experienced with his boss. He *knew* how she felt (because he actually walked in her shoes for a bit, as one poster above stated). When he got a small taste of that hurt, he ran to the presses to fix things to make her feel better — in a bigger way than I believe he would have if he was just trying to appease her — with making the story all about her and even including her address.  It showed me that William was not only a descent chap, but has some emotional sensitivity about him (and came up with a way to make amends with  Eliza that *truly* made amends — a more grand gesture—not just a unfeeling “I’m sorry” act, if you know what I mean.)

[Magnumfangirl]

Quote

William (Stuart Martin) is a fine specimen of manhood*

Yes, he is.  This was a good episode.  I don't think Eliza would ever agree to a fake marriage with Mr. Parker, but when he made the offer he said "no intimacy"...so what was his plan for heirs?  He admitted that's all his mother really cared about.  Me thinks Mr. Parker didn't think his plan through.  

[nara]

36 minutes ago, Magnumfangirl said:

Yes, he is.  This was a good episode.  I don't think Eliza would ever agree to a fake marriage with Mr. Parker, but when he made the offer he said "no intimacy"...so what was his plan for heirs?  He admitted that's all his mother really cared about.  Me thinks Mr. Parker didn't think his plan through.  

He may not be thinking that far ahead...or he is okay with her having a lover and passing off her children as his heirs.

[Nolefan]

32 minutes ago, Magnumfangirl said:

Yes, he is.  This was a good episode.  I don't think Eliza would ever agree to a fake marriage with Mr. Parker, but when he made the offer he said "no intimacy"...so what was his plan for heirs?  He admitted that's all his mother really cared about.  Me thinks Mr. Parker didn't think his plan through.  

While I love Rupert, he seems fine with throwing Eliza under the bus in his dealings with his mother. My guess is that  there would be no intimacy (of course Mother Parker would not know this), Eliza would not have the children Mother Parker wants, and Eliza, not Rupert, would be blamed for not producing an heir (because the woman was always at fault when children were not produced back in those times). Rupert probably feels that Eliza could just “handle” his Mother like she always does.

[Magnumfangirl]

7 hours ago, nara said:

He may not be thinking that far ahead...or he is okay with her having a lover and passing off her children as his heirs.

I thought of that, but I think William is the only one she would want and there's no way he'd go for that!  

[Nolefan]

Also, in regard to Eliza being upset about William not giving her her *due* in the *role* she played in the foiled bomb plot case from the previous episode, I feel that Eliza may have selectively forgotten that part of the *role* she played was being manipulated by a homicidal maniac and holding back vital information that allowed the homicidal manic to run free to be able to continue with the bomb plot because her judgment on the case was clouded by her personal feelings. Moreover, she wanted to *give up* on the case halfway through because of her personal feelings about the matter, and only continued forward with the investigation because William made her do it to get paid. I love Eliza because she is a flawed character. One of her flaws that seems to run through the prior episodes is that she is naive and in her desperation to get cases and *establish* herself, she has been a tad blind to her clients motives, which have not always been as they appear to be, and has a tendency to let her personal views cloud her investigations. Personally, I am not outraged that Eliza didn’t get some billing for foiling the bomb plot because I think William played the greater role in solving the case, and William’s motivation for solving it was to protect and serve the people of London, and the news articles recognized him for this. So, personally, I feel the circumstances of bomb plot case from last episode is not to the level where I feel Eliza suffered some huge injustice — some injustice, yes, but not a huge injustice— by William because he did not give her her do in the news articles. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Nolefan

[taanja]

On 2/8/2021 at 2:40 PM, rove4 said:

What a fun show!  I've been enjoying it immensely. The chemistry between the actors is lightning in a bottle. Showrunners always hope for it but it doesn't always happen.

All I can say is -- Hell yes! The chemistry is amazing!

[tvmom]

On 2/8/2021 at 7:17 PM, pezgirl7 said:

I watched some of season 1 of Jamestown, and although I thought Stuart Martin was cute, the level of attractiveness was nothing like it is here. Holy heck, William is FINE. He can pull off a beard, which many men can't, and his Scottish accent is swoon worthy. Someone pass the smelling salts.

I cannot love this post enough. 

[tvmom]

On 2/9/2021 at 8:48 AM, Nolefan said:

I add that William’s protectiveness over  Eliza was further shown in this episode when he threatened to throw Frank through the wall when he made the dirty comment about Eliza.

^This