S01.E06: Episode 6

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

After a startling confrontation, Dominick seeks reconciliation with those closest to him and receives an answer to the question that has haunted him all his life.

Original air date 2020.06.14

[Woopwoopkitty]

After 5 episodes staying very true to the book, the final episode departed in several ways from the book. i am trying to decide whether it matters. I was still very moved by Dom’s scene with Ralph.  And the later scenes with Ray felt authentic. Mark knocked this out of the park.  

More later after it all sinks in.

 

[preeya]

. . . . . . . And the Emmy for Best Actor in a Mini Series goes to Mark Ruffalo.

[scrb]

I have to say I sleepwalked through the first 4 episodes.

Dominick was an unappealing character and his struggle to help Thomas, while touching, was hard to watch at times.

But with episode 5 the story of his grandfather, you started to see why he had a massive chip on his shoulder.  It wasn't anger but despair, this belief that the family was cursed, this lashing out at all the tragedy in his life.

Does he completely turn it around?  Not clear he would sustain his relationships, including with Roger, even if he rebuilt it.

Sure he learned a lot from his grandfather's tales and learning the identity of his father.  But will the loss of Thomas and learning his father's identity make him a kindler, gentler Dominick?

May he find some peace and calm instead of being on a hair trigger all the time but can a lifetime of being of a certain temperament be erased?

[GreekGeek]

When the memoir mentioned Prosperine being committed to the “crazy people” hospital,” are we meant to think she was in the same place as Thomas?

This episode dragged for me after it killed off Thomas in the first few minutes, but there was also so much left out from the book that there could have been one more episode. I did like the fact that it was ambiguous whether Dominick and Dessa get back together. The final scene of them each cradling a baby (even though the babies aren’t theirs) was sweet: almost as if they’re holding the new Dominick and Thomas.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

A+ for the music in this episode!

Set Adrift On Memory Bliss - PM Dawn

Cherish - Madonna

Epic - Faith No More

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wow, so grandpa was kind enough to let the evil witch Prosperine stick around long enough to raise his daughter, provide free childcare, and teach her how to cook before having her locked up in an institution. His paranoia and persecution complex must have made him a lot of fun to be around. Good lord.

I disagreed with the therapist - Dominick isn't required to forgive Ray for the abuse he doled out to everyone in that house. He still did what he did. No matter what good things an abuser does, his victims never have to forgive him. If you want to, that's fine, but no one should guilt trip you into doing it.

Hahaha, Leo as Wilbur in Charlotte's Web was hilarious. The pig ears cracked me up.

The big reveal about Henry being Thomas and Dominick's father was a relief after they started meandering down the "did grandpa rape his daughter?" path.

I was glad that Dominick finally apologized to Dessa but I don't know how realistic it was that he finally had this huge epiphany about what an ass he was for blaming her for everything and then being able to verbalize it all to her.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

I was not prepared for Thomas's suicide even though I logically knew it was a probability.  Dom finally losing it at the wake was so raw and emotional--I hurt for both Ray and Dom.

Rosie is great in this series.  Awards in store for her too.  

I absolutely loved Dom and Ray's reconciliation.     For a hot second, I thought Ray was going to tell Dom that the Drinkwaters were his siblings.  

I have to believe that Dom and Dessa are at the beginning of a happy ending.  Both are due for some happiness, that's for sure.

Great mini-series---I think I'll invest in reading the book.

 

[LoveLeigh]

Did I blink? What happened to Joy and the baby? 

[ChicksDigScars]

11 hours ago, preeya said:

. . . . . . . And the Emmy for Best Actor in a Mini Series goes to Mark Ruffalo.

It should have gone to him after The Normal Heart. Let's hope they get it right this time!

I stuck with this because of Ruffalo, and because it was filmed in Poughkeepsie, NY, where I was born. We moved away when I was eight, but I would go back every summer to visit my grandmother, so the shots of the Mid-Hudson bridge and the Poughkeepsie Railroad bridge (now an official NY state park called Walk Way Over the Hudson), brought so many memories back. 

Otherwise, the story was depressing as hell and kinda dragged for me. Ruffalo was amazing. He deserves ALLLLL the awards. 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by ChicksDigScars

[BC4ME]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

The big reveal about Henry being Thomas and Dominick's father was a relief after they started meandering down the "did grandpa rape his daughter?" path.

 

I actually caught that vibe as soon as Nedra Frank said something about him and the daughter and how she would never let him around any kids of hers. I was so upset by the possibility that the twins were actually fathered by their own grandfather that I bought the audio book because I couldn't wait for the series to tell me. The audiobook did not have the Dominico manuscript in it though.

They still really left that hanging. She acted like someone sexually abused by her father.

[GreekGeek]

2 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Did I blink? What happened to Joy and the baby? 

Presumably she moved out after the hospital visit where Dominick told her about the vasectomy. This is a plot line that the series dropped, but the book explains:

Spoiler

Joy contracts AIDS as a result of having sex with Thad. After she dies, and Dominick and Dessa remarry, they adopt her daughter Tyffanie. 

 

[LoveLeigh]

51 minutes ago, GreekGeek said:

Presumably she moved out after the hospital visit where Dominick told her about the vasectomy. This is a plot line that the series dropped, but the book explains:

  Hide contents

Joy contracts AIDS as a result of having sex with Thad. After she dies, and Dominick and Dessa remarry, they adopt her daughter Tyffanie. 

How could they drop that entire plot line? The series never explains where she went and whose baby she had and what happened to her baby. 

 

 

[scrb]

1 hour ago, GreekGeek said:

Presumably she moved out after the hospital visit where Dominick told her about the vasectomy. This is a plot line that the series dropped, but the book explains:

  Reveal spoiler

Joy contracts AIDS as a result of having sex with Thad. After she dies, and Dominick and Dessa remarry, they adopt her daughter Tyffanie. 

 

That's the pretty major thing to drop.

They did all the setup with both of them making claims about the pregnancy and they didn't follow it through?

[bilgistic]

10 hours ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

For a hot second, I thought Ray was going to tell Dom that the Drinkwaters were his siblings.

Corrected below...

Edited June 16, 2020 by bilgistic

[BC4ME]

56 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

They were, weren't they? Ray told Dominick that Henry Drinkwater was Dominick's and Thomas's father, making Ralph and Penny their biological half-siblings. Or did I misunderstand?

They were cousins. Henry's brother was Ralph and Penny's father. The original connection was Dominick's grandfather worked with the Drinkwater brothers' father. So Dominick and Thomas' biological grandfather. And Henry, one of his sons, later hooked up with Concettina. 

[Joan van Snark]

I read the book many years ago so I don't remember all of the details, but the reveal to me here was nowhere near as meaningful as it was in the book.  I don't think 6 episodes was nearly enough.  There should have been more fleshed out about the grandfather and the mother for sure I thought.  If I remember correctly, the book went into great detail describing the relationship between Domenic and the doctor and how she helped him realize things and make connections.  She was barely a player in this adaptation.

I thought Ray was great.  The actor did a great job showing Ray's regret at Thomas's funeral for the things he did to him as a child.  Of course it was terrible, but I don't think Ray was evil.  In a way, he did think he was doing the right thing and loved the boys in his own way.  I really liked how Dom and Ray came together after the funeral.  

LOVED Rosie O'Donnell's work in this show.  She should do dramatic roles more often.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Joan van Snark

[bilgistic]

1 hour ago, BC4ME said:

They were cousins. Henry's brother was Ralph and Penny's father. The original connection was Dominick's grandfather worked with the Drinkwater brothers' father. So Dominick and Thomas' biological grandfather. And Henry, one of his sons, later hooked up with Concettina. 

Ah, thanks. I missed that there was a brother to Henry. I thought Henry was the young boy playing with young Concettina when Dominica came home early. I did catch that the Drinkwater (grand)father worked with Dominico. For what was kind of a slow slog in the first few episodes, there was a lot of info dumped in the season finale.

[BC4ME]

9 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Ah, thanks. I missed that there was a brother to Henry. I thought Henry was the young boy playing with young Concettina when Dominica came home early. I did catch that the Drinkwater (grand)father worked with Dominico. For what was kind of a slow slog in the first few episodes, there was a lot of info dumped in the season finale.

I probably wouldn't have been as clear on it if I hadn't listened to the audiobook before the series ended. I don't normally do that but there were some things I needed clarified.

I do think Henry was the boy playing with Concettina as a child.

[Woopwoopkitty]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I disagreed with the therapist - Dominick isn't required to forgive Ray for the abuse he doled out to everyone in that house. He still did what he did. No matter what good things an abuser does, his victims never have to forgive him. If you want to, that's fine, but no one should guilt trip you into doing it.

I did not hear the therapist say he should forgive him although that may have been what she was hoping he would do.

dessa tells him after the funeral that he could forgive Ray for anything and everything before he would be willing to forgive his ultimate sin, of not being his real father.

Patel tells him that for all his failings, Ray *is* his family, the one constant of his life that is still there.  She says he should talk to him. She does not tell him to forgive him explicitly.

I also think of what Ray tells him while a Dom is shaving him, that he and Concettina did not talk about the past that they just let it lie.  I saw that as a hint of what Dom should do.  Not necessarily forgive but just move on.

Yes Ray has his failings but I try to look at things in historical perspective.  Ray is Ex military and likely brought up in a tough household. He marries an unwed mother, Italian (who in some areas were looked down on), in 1950.  He provided a home albeit an abusive dis functional one.  For 1950 yes what Ray did by marrying her was in itself laudable.  Abuse was very common then, just better hidden than now. 

I think too that Dom was not much the target of abuse, but a bystander and observer.  He even talks of himself of being on Ray’s team to make Thomas miserable. Dom needs to forgive himself more than anyone else.

The family concept was reinforced when he asks Ralph why he is helping him. And he says because we are connected whether I like you or not.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Woopwoopkitty

[Woopwoopkitty]

16 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

When the memoir mentioned Prosperine being committed to the “crazy people” hospital,” are we meant to think she was in the same place as Thomas?

In the book,

Spoiler

She was originally at Hatch but not at the same time as Thomas.  Dom sees her at the nursing home, very old, but thinks it’s her.  He mesmerizes her with two rabbits to remove the family curse she had put upon them.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Connie got pregnant in 1949 and Henry died in 1950. So when did Connie's terrible father die? Ray said that the dad would have killed Connie so I assumed that meant he was already dead by the time she was visibly pregnant but I wasn't 100% clear on when he died. I'm guessing the date was on the tombstone in the earlier episode when Thomas and Dominick walked up there?

I'm just glad that Connie had some time when she wasn't under her father's thumb or being abused by Ray. I hope she had a decent amount of time with Henry before he went to Korea. They just have been together for a while if it was common knowledge in Henry's family that Thomas and Dominick were related to them.

5 hours ago, Joan van Snark said:

LOVED Rosie O'Donnell's work in this show.  She should do dramatic roles more often.

Have you watched SMILF? She was great in that too.

[LydiaE]

15 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Did I blink? What happened to Joy and the baby? 

Yeah. What was the point of even introducing the Joy character? I think it was simply to provide a dramatic vasectomy reveal. Weak.

[GreekGeek]

7 hours ago, Woopwoopkitty said:

In the book,

  Hide contents

She was originally at Hatch but not at the same time as Thomas.  Dom sees her at the nursing home, very old, but thinks it’s her.  He mesmerizes her with two rabbits to remove the family curse she had put upon them.

 

I remembered the book ending but didn’t know if the series was going to keep it. I thought we were being set up for a final Dominick/Prosperine scene at the hospital. I’m glad it didn’t happen, because if it had, it would have seemed too easy to blame everything on a witch’s curse.

[BC4ME]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Connie got pregnant in 1949 and Henry died in 1950. So when did Connie's terrible father die? Ray said that the dad would have killed Connie so I assumed that meant he was already dead by the time she was visibly pregnant but I wasn't 100% clear on when he died.

They said Connie's father died before the twins were born. So probably before she was visibly pregnant.

[tennisgurl]

What a depressing story, but at least we got a glimmer of hope that Dom might be able to work on himself now and find some happiness after so much family history of trauma and misery. I sort of guessed that Thomas would die, but seeing it happen so soon really hurt, especially Doms reaction to his death at the wake, and his reconciliation with Ray. I dont think that Dom is required to forgive Ray for the abuse that went on in their childhood, but I do think that Ray regrets how he treated his family, especially Thomas, and he did/does love them in his way. Really, forgiveness is more about Dom than Ray, Dom has so much anger, that him making peace with his step father seems like it would be good for him, and that this can lead to him generally finding more healthy ways to deal with his issues. I also like that they left it ambiguous if he and Desa got back together after he copped to how poorly he handled so much of their marriage. I like to think they got back together, but you could look at it either way and it would make sense. 

Can I just start hurling Emmy's at Mark Ruffalo now?

[meep.meep]

What a steaming pile of shit.  Sorry, not a fan.   You can tell why they dumped it on air during what's usually a dead period because of baseball and basketball playoffs.

Why in the world did they get Melissa Leo for this?  She doesn't even have lines.  Did they cut out big parts of the book where she had dramatic moments?

And everyone one in that stupid town had two kids?  Always two?  The only exception was Dominic and Dessa.  

The only thing I liked was Ralph (?) Drinkwater telling Dominic that he knew he was a hypocrite when he read the speech at his sister's funeral.

[sadie]

It was such a dark story but it really had me engrossed right up to the end. I appreciate scripted tv so much these days, and so little of it is good. While the story was hard to watch it was just a compelling six hours of viewing for me.

Aaaaaaand every acting award ever created goes to.........Mark Ruffalo. I forgot I was watching one person play two people, amazing. Most under rated actor in Hollywood IMO. 

With a really big high five to Rosie O’Donnel. That I don't like her much as a person but loved this character says a lot. When she hugged Dom at the reception and was just sobbing I was gutted. Amazing. 
 

 

[SunnyBeBe]

This episode was my favorite by far.  I actually got annoyed with Dominick only once in this one and that was when he went to sleep without proper security on the door or some type of alarm, in case Thomas got up during the night.  Under the circumstances, he should have known that.  
 

But, I was ok with how he went off at the wake.  When a grown man (Ray) abuses his wife and children, he’s not a good person and no one should feel compelled to pretend that they are.  I took it that Ray paid for the funeral, so Dominick just went along with it., since he paid. To me, Ray should have been ashamed. He’s lucky Dominick had compassion and friended him in the end. He needed some kind of punishment.
 

Which once again takes me back to where Dominick got his income. He never seemed to work, but always had money. 
 

I had read things about this series, Dominick’s girlfriend and her baby, but it never happened. It should have been explained.

They confirmed that Ray adopted the boys. When the funeral person asked who Thomas’s father was, it would be the adopted father who is the Legal father.  At adoption, the birth certificate is changed to say the adopted parents name.  Hmmm... 

[Maysie]

On 6/15/2020 at 4:31 PM, scrb said:

That's the pretty major thing to drop.

They did all the setup with both of them making claims about the pregnancy and they didn't follow it through?

It didn't bother me that they didn't follow the end of the book to the letter, explicitly spelling out what happens with Dessa and Dominic. For me, the real story was the relationship between Thomas and Dominic and how Thomas's illness, their upbringing and the disturbing family history impacted them. The final shot of Dominic getting on with his life, in some manner, with Dessa works just fine for me. Dessa and Angela were just part of his journey (and a failed marriage and dead child - oof. That's a lot for anyone and considering that's just one part of Dominic's story is pretty remarkable.)

Generally, I give the side eye to books I enjoy being brought to the screen, but this was very well done, which makes me happy because Wally Lamb is one of my favorite authors.

[Miss chi chi]

What was the special game the mother was playing with Thomas upstairs? Was the mother sexually abusing Thomas?  Was she allowing him to dress up in girls clothing? Ray's reaction would indicate that something very bad was happening upstairs.  Was Thomas' shame over the gloves the real reason he cut off his hand? I'm very curious and confused about this scene. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Miss chi chi

[GreekGeek]

On 8/29/2020 at 11:23 PM, Miss chi chi said:

What was the special game the mother was playing with Thomas upstairs? Was the mother sexually abusing Thomas?  Was she allowing him to dress up in girls clothing? Ray's reaction would indicate that something very bad was happening upstairs.  Was Thomas' shame over the gloves the real reason he cut off his hand? I'm very curious and confused about this scene. 

Yes, she was dressing Thomas as a girl. It's clearer in the book that they were playing at being two ladies at tea. I don't think there was any direct connection between that and Thomas's self-mutilation years later--he always talked about it as an act of self-sacrifice, not self-punishment, but you raise an interesting point.