Normal People - General Discussion

[scrb]

12 episodes, 30 minutes each, releasing on 4/29.

It doesn't sound like a comedy or dramedy despite the 30-minute length.

Described as Millenial love story, getting strong reviews.

This is Sepinwall's review:

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-reviews/normal-people-hulu-review-984260/

 

[absnow54]

I’ve read the book. Definitely not a comedy. Wish they’d just do 6 hour long episodes, but they’re probably trying to stretch out people’s subscriptions. I’ll be watching. Low stake steamy drama with pretty scenery. Done. 

[AttackTurtle]

I absolutely adored this series.   It was the best thing I’ve seen on screen in a very long time.

[absnow54]

The acting was superb, and I liked the slight tweaks they made to the book. I watched it all yesterday and am already planning a rewatch. 

[Shorty186]

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about this here. I thought it was a very unique show based on a very unique book and thank God Sally Rooney was involved in adapting it, otherwise I think it really would have lost what makes it special.

I've seen a lot of articles praising it, but not really any reviews discussing/critiquing the characters. Marianne is a very difficult character for me because I care about her so much and want her to be happy, but am so often disappointed and frustrated by her. That she doesn't feel she's worthy or deserving enough of love and is not just willing but completely accepting of other people's BS. But there is something about the character (and actress) that just makes you want to stick with her in the hope that she learns to love herself and can put what she wants ahead of pleasing other people.

[Anela]

I'm watching it - nine episodes, so far. It seems really familiar to me, but I haven't read the book, and don't know what my brain would be comparing it to. 

I like it, but I need to watch something lighter, too, so I'm alternating it with Upload. 

[Ohiopirate02]

I have a question for those who have watched the whole series.  I have read the book and am hesitant to watch the series because there is a part of the book that I absolutely hated.  Like I would have thrown the book across the room at that point only I was listening to the audiobook on my phone.  

In the book,

Spoiler

Marianne is into some BDSM in her sex because of the abuse she suffered from her father and older brother.  Which is problematic but I was willing to let that slide, until the final sex scene where Marianne asks Connell to hit her and he cannot.  He cannnot do this not because that is not his particular kink, but because he is too good and pure to give Marianne what she wants.  The book heavily implies that Marianne wants this because she is damaged.  

I personally cannot watch the series if this is left in there.  

[Shorty186]

Ohiopirate02

Spoiler

Yes those major plot points are there although personally I didn't believe Marianne was into it because of anything to do with her dad/brother. I can't remember if this is how it is in the book but she gets into a BDSM relationship in college that she seems indifferent to but goes along with because that's how she is (which really frustrated me).

 

[Dminches]

We just finished this and thought it was excellent.  It did a great job of showing how complex people and relationships are.  There were times when both of them failed to say things the viewer felt should be said, which is realistic.  People normally don't communicate well.  Both characters have demons which both drive them and inhibit them.

Spoiler

I thought it was really interesting how their comfort with their environment switched when they went from high school to college.  Marianne had a fresh start at Trinity and was with people who were more similar to her while Connell was now forced to acclimate in a world in which he was unfamiliar.

The one common thread throughout the story was their deep love and passion for one another.  While it didn't always hold them together, it did keep bringing them back to one another.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Dminches

[backhometome]

Just finished the series. It was good. The acting is wonderful. They both did such a good job.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by backhometome

[SHD]

I just finished the series and have not read the book. Does the book explain why her brother is so verbally abusive and hates her so much? I don’t think I missed anything in the series. It just seemed that’s how he was introduced with no background to explain why.

[Whimsy]

52 minutes ago, SHD said:

I just finished the series and have not read the book. Does the book explain why her brother is so verbally abusive and hates her so much? I don’t think I missed anything in the series. It just seemed that’s how he was introduced with no background to explain why.

I've only watched the show and not read the book, but Marianne did say her father was abusive to her mother and silently admitted that her father hit her as well, so I think the son's behavior was learned from the father.  That mother was a POS, though.  Not saying anything at all and letting her son behave like that.  I seriously doubt he would hit his own mother, so she should've tried to parent him. 

I liked this a lot.  I binged it in one sitting.  I got frustrated at times with both Connell & Marianne.  Despite the abuse in the family, it took me awhile to really understand Marianne's damage so I was frustrated with her more frequently.  I kinda hate how it ended.  I admire Marianne's selflessness, but I still hated it.  Maybe it was just me, but the way she was talking it seemed like she was almost telling Connell that she'll be ok and she was better now, but she needs some serious counseling.  

I have to admit that I was really confused about the timeline of this show.  I think most of it had to do with not being familiar with how the school system works in Ireland.  I figured they had to be juniors (or, the equivalent) when it started since they were just then talking about applying to colleges but then they obviously started college the next year.  Then, I didn't understand what the award or whatever they won was and how that meant they were then studying elsewhere so I just assumed we zoomed right past their entire initial 4 years and they were in grad school.   But, after it ended, I THINK it was just the standard 4-years that it covered, right? 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Whimsy said:

I've only watched the show and not read the book, but Marianne did say her father was abusive to her mother and silently admitted that her father hit her as well, so I think the son's behavior was learned from the father.  That mother was a POS, though.  Not saying anything at all and letting her son behave like that.  I seriously doubt he would hit his own mother, so she should've tried to parent him. 

I liked this a lot.  I binged it in one sitting.  I got frustrated at times with both Connell & Marianne.  Despite the abuse in the family, it took me awhile to really understand Marianne's damage so I was frustrated with her more frequently.  I kinda hate how it ended.  I admire Marianne's selflessness, but I still hated it.  Maybe it was just me, but the way she was talking it seemed like she was almost telling Connell that she'll be ok and she was better now, but she needs some serious counseling.  

I have to admit that I was really confused about the timeline of this show.  I think most of it had to do with not being familiar with how the school system works in Ireland.  I figured they had to be juniors (or, the equivalent) when it started since they were just then talking about applying to colleges but then they obviously started college the next year.  Then, I didn't understand what the award or whatever they won was and how that meant they were then studying elsewhere so I just assumed we zoomed right past their entire initial 4 years and they were in grad school.   But, after it ended, I THINK it was just the standard 4-years that it covered, right? 

I've read the book.  Marianne's father and brother were abusive, but not much more detail was given.  Marianne's background is kept vague because deep down the book is really Connell's book.  Marianne definitely needs counseling, but never gets it.  I also do think that while Marianne lets Connell go, they will eventually fall back in bed with each other again.  That particular carousel has paused but neither one has left the ride.

The book covers the Irish equivalent of senior year in high school up to college graduation.  

[cailinoBAC]

Haven't watched it all yet, but have read the book. In Ireland you apply for college courses about Feb of your final year of school (though you can change your mind up to June). It's a centralised system and about a week after your leaving cert results in August you get offered the top choice you have the points for. 600 points is generally the highest number of points (there are some variations where you might get extra points for maths for example) so you'd get whatever you had chosen. 

In Trinity during second year you can do scholorship exams. You do your end of year exams a little early and if you get a first (top mark) you skip the summer exams, get free accommodation for the remaining two years of your degree as well as i think 3 years post grad (assuming you continue your studies), free meals and a small grant. I don't think the year abroad had anything to do with the exams. Some courses have an obligatory year abroad (I studied business and German so that included a year in Germany) but for a lot of other courses there are options to go abroad for a year or a semester. 

[ShellsandCheese]

This show was better than the book in my opinion. But I am probably the rare person who isn’t that impressed with Sally Rooney. 
 

The show was lovely and actually improved on the book. I liked what they chose to change - although I think more could have been done to show / explain Marianne’s family dynamic. And Cornell’s too for that matter. 

[Avabelle]

Agreed. I prefer the show so far to the book. I didn’t really like Marianne in the book.

[absnow54]

7 hours ago, Avabelle said:

Agreed. I prefer the show so far to the book. I didn’t really like Marianne in the book.

Marianne drove me crazy in the book sometimes, especially when she'd go off on people for selling out because they got a job, as if she'd ever have to work a day in her life because she came from money. I'm glad they dropped that side of her characterization from the book. 

[Wee S]

On 5/5/2020 at 7:17 PM, Whimsy said:

I've only watched the show and not read the book, but Marianne did say her father was abusive to her mother and silently admitted that her father hit her as well, so I think the son's behavior was learned from the father.  That mother was a POS, though.  Not saying anything at all and letting her son behave like that.  I seriously doubt he would hit his own mother, so she should've tried to parent him. 

I come from a similar home to that portrayed as Marianne's and I understand why her mother acted the way she did. Her mother would have grown up in catholic, parochial Ireland, like my mum did and where deference was given to the father/men, and the mum didn't want to rock the boat. My father was never physically abusive to my mother, but he was so controlling that she used to lie about her nights out with the girls so he wouldn't follow her. I clearly picked up on this because when I was younger I actually asked 'mummy, why don't you and daddy get a divorce?'. I was about 8 at the time but as a committed Catholic, there was no chance. As I got older, I was not allowed to have an opinion contrary to my dad and if I did, he'd roar 'that's the end of it' and it was. My mother never said a word and for years we had no real relationship yet weirdly, I was closer with my dad (Yes, it makes no sense). This clearly rubbed off on my 2nd brother, four years older than me. We are both in our 30s and he still treats me like shit. We all know he's mum's favourite but she'll never say/hear a bad word against him in front of anyone. I don't agree with it, but she is a product of her environment and so I don't think she, nor Marianne's mother are POS. They're just trying to survive another day. Now that daddy has passed on, we have a stronger relationship and talk more, but for most of my life she was walking on eggshells and I don't blame her. I feel sorry for her and Marianne's mum.

[Ohiopirate02]

14 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Marianne drove me crazy in the book sometimes, especially when she'd go off on people for selling out because they got a job, as if she'd ever have to work a day in her life because she came from money. I'm glad they dropped that side of her characterization from the book. 

I found that characterization about Marianne hilarious and spot-on for a sheltered college kid.  Marianne grew up removed from the drudgery of making money but also benefited from it.  It's so easy to flirt with socialism or communism when you are 20 and at school.  Marianne lives in a bubble where she sees nothing wrong with taking the scholarship exams to prove she is smarter than everyone else, not even thinking about her potentially taking away money from another student who desperately needs it.

 

 

[scorp01]

I hadn't heard of the book before, but I saw the trailer and thought it looked interesting.  I enjoyed the series very much and the two leads were great.  Based on some of the comments about the book itself, I'll probably just skip it.

[absnow54]

13 hours ago, scorp01 said:

I hadn't heard of the book before, but I saw the trailer and thought it looked interesting.  I enjoyed the series very much and the two leads were great.  Based on some of the comments about the book itself, I'll probably just skip it.

The book doesn't use quotations to signify when dialogue is happening, which is kind of annoying, but you get used to it. I can't say that there's any differences from the book that I missed. I thought the show was much better. 

[Avabelle]

Yeah the show manages to stay true to the book but make certain characters a lot more likeable 

[scrb]

Just watched the pilot, which makes it look like the loner but brilliant girl and the popular big man on campus love story.

But it sounds like there’s a lot more to it.

The young actress is a Londoner but she’s got the Irish accent dead on — well at least to my ears even though I’ve never been to Dublin.

Probably some other English actors in the cast as well?  See that it’s at least a joint BBC production.

[Avabelle]

It sounds like that ok paper but cConnell is so uncomfortable in his an skin I don’t know that I’d use Big Man on Campus to describe him. 

With the exception of Marianne and I think Conells later housemate and a few college friends it’s mostly an Irish production. Given that most non Irish actors can rarely get the dialects rights it’s a relief. Daisys is very good. She’s meant to be from Sligo in it rather than Dublin but she still manages the difference.

 

[Ambrosefolly]

On 5/8/2020 at 11:24 PM, scrb said:

The young actress is a Londoner but she’s got the Irish accent dead on — well at least to my ears even though I’ve never been to Dublin.

Her mother is Northern Irish, so that probably help. 

[kieyra]

I think I liked it, but my short attention span and impatience to see the two leads on screen together meant there was a fair amount of stuff I skimmed. I mean, that’s another way of saying I found their chemistry and the tension of the way they could/could not communicate riveting, and found a lot of the rest of it (the college friends, the other relationships) just a distraction from that. It was just impossible to believe in their other romantic entanglements, especially when they tended to split up over such basic misunderstandings, and clearly spent the rest of their time longing for each other.

HUGE props to the acting, direction and “intimacy coordination” of the sex scenes. They were seriously intense in their realism, and I appreciated what I felt was more of a female gaze. Or maybe a universal gaze, I don’t know how that stuff is defined anymore. 

Yeah, the BDSM stuff was an off note, especially when it ruined what was essentially their reunion after a couple of episodes of keeping them apart. I understand that this is about Marianne’s self-worth issues, but eh. Wasn’t buying it, or her and Jamie. He was such a twerp. I haven’t read the book, and it’s not the kind of book I even read, but I assume that a lot of authors think they have to throw that stuff in in a post-50-shades world?

(I respect that Connell didn’t beat the shit out of Jamie or Marianne’s brother, no matter how much I wanted him to.)

I would have liked to see them end up together, but it was fairly open-ended at least. They both need to bake a bit more. 

TLDR: whoa hot sex scenes. 

[scrb]

In the most general terms, it's a sweet story, how they get together in high school and throughout college, love only each other, even though they date other people.

Marianne keeps saying how when they have sex, it's not like it is with the others.  She said she was faking it with Jaime but when she was with Connell, her feelings were real and she didn't play games.

Then she said it's not like it is with the others when they start having sex and she asks him to hit her.

These are both well-read people so she can say she felt real intimacy, rather than "it's no like it is with the others?"

In any event, I think there was more than communication problems or inability to express themselves.  Would be ironic, considering that he aspires to be a writer and she's studying history?

At least for this series, them separating, especially after that first year, seems really contrived.  He can't or won't ask her if he could stay with her in the summer and when he says something like "I guess we'll see other people," in his memory, she says right away "I guess so" while in her memory of the same conversation, she's more hesitant.

Even after they discuss this misunderstanding, they don't do anything about it because they're dating other people.  But she's pretty much told Connell that she's not into Jaime and for his part, he was obviously not into Helen as much as he was still in love with Marianne.

Yet of course they don't do anything about it until the high school friend commits suicide.  And it doesn't seem likely she would come back for the funeral other than as a reason to see him again, since she never got along with the deceased.

They remain friends even when they're dating other people but it's like emotional affairs as they're closer with each other than the people they're dating.

Other thing I notice is that she says she would do anything for him, that he could do anything with her in bed.  She uses absolutes, like "always" talking about how he could have stayed with her that summer.

But she was pretty pliant with her other boyfriends too.  She let Jaime do the kink thing, she wanted to leave Lukas the guy in Sweden but she let him despise her because that's what she told him that she wanted.  So there was more BDSM sex and him ordering her around.

So while she was emotionally detached from them, she's something of a pleaser.

Which is why it's odd that she wants to let him go at the end.

If one were to be cynical it could be a cliffhanger or a hook for another season, if the show does well.  I know it's based on a novel but if there's money to be made, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to produce another season.

But they couldn't have more of this breaking up, getting back together, breaking up, etc. again.

 

I would say this is like the Irish version of Felicity, with the addition of smoking and nudity.

[kieyra]

8 hours ago, scrb said:

At least for this series, them separating, especially after that first year, seems really contrived.

Yes, this. I was impatient with it. I understand the will they/won't they arc and why you have to place obstacles in their way, but the obstacles were so silly, and they were so miserable without each other. It made it very difficult for me to get invested in the other characters or side relationships.

(I liked Connell's mom a lot, though.)

I both liked and hated their communication issues. On the one hand they were kinda ridiculous, but the extremely lean dialogue worked as a tension builder for me. 

[Ohiopirate02]

I didn't see anything contrived with Connell and Marianne breaking up because he could not afford to stay in Dublin for the summer.  Connell's pride prevented him from admitting to Marianne that he can't afford to stay, and she is oblivious to his financial situation.  Marianne is a sheltered, rich 19 year old who because she doesn't have to worry about money automatically assumes that everyone else around her also doesn't have to worry about it.  Deep down Marianne knows that Connell was raised by a single mother who makes her living cleaning houses, but she is incapable of making the connection in that moment.  Marianne is also working through her own issues of low self-esteem and hears Connell is leaving for the summer and immediately assumes it is because of her.  

[scrb]

But they discussed it during the summer or at the start of the next school year, yet they stayed with the people they were dating at the time and it wasn't until next summer or even later that they got back together.

Jaime dumped her first college bf to get with Connell again yet she stayed with Jaime until the following summer at the Italian villa when they had that blow up.  Then she went to Sweden and took up with the photographer.

Meanwhile Connell stayed with Helen but when he got mugged, he went to Marianne and they kept in touch with emails and such.  That is the emotional affair part.  They were with other people but still had this intimacy, apparently confiding in each other.

Then at the funeral, he hugs Marianne for a long time and Helen has to come and separate them.

Eventually they reunite but at the end of the series, they're going to separate again and he says he'll be back in a year but she says we don't know where each other will be in a year.

So if they do a sequel, are they going to do the same thing again, break up, get back together, break up again, etc.?

 

I saw an article, the same creative team is working on developing a series based on another of Rooney's novels.  They said they're not even talking about doing another Normal People season again, so the idea is there.  

[scrb]

Paul Mescal does an interview on The Ringer's The Watch podcast with Andy Greenwald and Chris Ryan.

So he's definitely got the Irish accent.

Ryan and Greenwald were joking that the show was really about Jaime and Mescal tries to play along but notes that the actor who plays Jaime is one of his best friends and that he's getting a lot of social media abuse for his character.

[absnow54]

On 5/13/2020 at 12:00 PM, scrb said:

But they discussed it during the summer or at the start of the next school year, yet they stayed with the people they were dating at the time and it wasn't until next summer or even later that they got back together.

Jaime dumped her first college bf to get with Connell again yet she stayed with Jaime until the following summer at the Italian villa when they had that blow up.  Then she went to Sweden and took up with the photographer.

I'm getting fuzzy on the timeline already. When did Connell admit to Marianne that he was going to ask to stay with her over the summer? I thought it was right after he got mugged. I think she would have left Jamie for Connell in that moment, like she did with her first college boyfriend, but then Connell announced he was dating Helen, and I think Marianne decided to step aside because Helen was grounded and normal, and probably better for Connell.

I'm not sure why Connell didn't break up with Helen after Italy though, when it became clear how deeply reliant both he and Marianne were in their connection. 

[kieyra]

Well, I’ve watched this whole thing again, and even though straight up romance isn’t really my genre, I feel like this is really well done. My cynical side tries to hold up some bitter resistance to the tropes (let’s face it, Connell is legit wish-fulfillment fantasy guy), but in the end the performances really sell it and turn me into a twenty-something shipper.

And watching with a little less impatience did make the times they were broken up make more sense. And other stuff I missed. For example, the first time through, when she asks him to hit her, I was so put off by that whole thing that I wasn’t paying enough attention to the rest of the episode. I was just frustrated that their reunion after being apart so long was ruined.  It didn’t click that the sex wasn’t their “reunion” that I had been waiting for, their reunion was Connell going and helping her escape from her family at the end. 

This is also the rare show in which the minimalist dialogue does a disproportionate amount of heavy lifting (again, with the help of the knockout performances). 

[tennisgurl]

I admit that I wanted to see Connell and Marianne definitively end up together, but I liked the more ambiguous ending. No matter what, they will always have each other, and they have certainly been separated and then together again before. I really liked this show, even if I thought it could get rather slow at times, especially when Connell and Marianne were apart. The acting was top notch, especially from the two leads, and the intimacy between them was so intense, I fully felt like I should be looking away, like I was introducing on a private moment. 

I think it took me a bit longer to really "get" Marianne and what her damage was, I think I wanted to know more about her family and why she had this terribly low self esteem and such a prickly exterior, especially in high school. I can guess, especially with her awful brother and her mother who lets him get away with being a total asshole and even blames Marianne for his bad behavior, but I wanted to know more. I also wanted to know more about Connells story with his mom and his apparently absent dad, but I wonder if all of that was in the book, which is on my To Read list. What I found really interesting about Connell is how it became increasingly clear that as popular as he was in high school, he was also terribly shy and uncomfortable in his own skin, and even though he had friends and family, he was terribly lonely, so the second he left home, with people that already knew him, he found himself adrift, while Marianne's intellectual snarkiness helped her find her people in college. Thats probably why Marianne and Connell kept being drawn back to each other, they both put up a front that hid serious self esteem issues and a feeling of being misunderstood and isolated. 

I found the bondage stuff with Marianne to be really strange, like the bit when she asked Connell to hit her when they had sex and he freaked out, the whole thing was just weird. It had that "only damaged people who hate themselves and sadists like bondage" lesson that I always find annoying and weirdly prudish. Marianne really has the worst taste in men other than Connell, and even he didn't always treat her great in high school, especially her awful college boyfriend Jamie. Connell showed a ton of restraint not punching him in his smug shitty face.

It really took Marianne a long time to notice the financial discrepancy between her and Connell, it had to be basically spelled out to her in sky writing that while she didn't have to worry about money, Connell really did. Like when she got all offended that Connell had to leave Dublin for the summer and took it as some kind of swipe at her, and not that he literally couldn't afford it, or her applying for the scholarship just to as an intellectual exercise, while Connell HAD to try for it because he needed the money. 

I studied abroad in Dublin (and hung out in Galway a few times) so this also gave me a lot of nostalgia.  

[Whimsy]

18 hours ago, kieyra said:

Well, I’ve watched this whole thing again, and even though straight up romance isn’t really my genre, I feel like this is really well done. My cynical side tries to hold up some bitter resistance to the tropes (let’s face it, Connell is legit wish-fulfillment fantasy guy), but in the end the performances really sell it and turn me into a twenty-something shipper.

And watching with a little less impatience did make the times they were broken up make more sense. And other stuff I missed. For example, the first time through, when she asks him to hit her, I was so put off by that whole thing that I wasn’t paying enough attention to the rest of the episode. I was just frustrated that their reunion after being apart so long was ruined.  It didn’t click that the sex wasn’t their “reunion” that I had been waiting for, their reunion was Connell going and helping her escape from her family at the end. 

This is also the rare show in which the minimalist dialogue does a disproportionate amount of heavy lifting (again, with the help of the knockout performances). 

I think I’ll rewatch this eventually too because I kept waiting for something really tragic to happen to one of them, like a car accident or something. I kept flashing back to City of Angels when Meg Ryan gets hit but a truck after they finally get together (ok spoiler, but that movie is super old). I hadn’t read the book, so I didn’t know it was a never ending series of break-ups so I was super anxious all the time. 

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I think it took me a bit longer to really "get" Marianne and what her damage was, I think I wanted to know more about her family and why she had this terribly low self esteem and such a prickly exterior, especially in high school. I can guess, especially with her awful brother and her mother who lets him get away with being a total asshole and even blames Marianne for his bad behavior, but I wanted to know more. I also wanted to know more about Connells story with his mom and his apparently absent dad, but I wonder if all of that was in the book, which is on my To Read list. What I found really interesting about Connell is how it became increasingly clear that as popular as he was in high school, he was also terribly shy and uncomfortable in his own skin, and even though he had friends and family, he was terribly lonely, so the second he left home, with people that already knew him, he found himself adrift, while Marianne's intellectual snarkiness helped her find her people in college. Thats probably why Marianne and Connell kept being drawn back to each other, they both put up a front that hid serious self esteem issues and a feeling of being misunderstood and isolated. 

I found the bondage stuff with Marianne to be really strange, like the bit when she asked Connell to hit her when they had sex and he freaked out, the whole thing was just weird. It had that "only damaged people who hate themselves and sadists like bondage" lesson that I always find annoying and weirdly prudish. Marianne really has the worst taste in men other than Connell, and even he didn't always treat her great in high school, especially her awful college boyfriend Jamie. Connell showed a ton of restraint not punching him in his smug shitty face.

It took me way too long to ping onto this too, and I felt like I should’ve gotten it much sooner since I was also raised in a very abusive household.  Which is why I also agree to the 2nd bolded part. To me, that just seems like something made up by the writer to titillate and make Marianne edgy and damaged without having any real-life experience.  

[Ohiopirate02]

17 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I admit that I wanted to see Connell and Marianne definitively end up together, but I liked the more ambiguous ending. No matter what, they will always have each other, and they have certainly been separated and then together again before. I really liked this show, even if I thought it could get rather slow at times, especially when Connell and Marianne were apart. The acting was top notch, especially from the two leads, and the intimacy between them was so intense, I fully felt like I should be looking away, like I was introducing on a private moment. 

I think it took me a bit longer to really "get" Marianne and what her damage was, I think I wanted to know more about her family and why she had this terribly low self esteem and such a prickly exterior, especially in high school. I can guess, especially with her awful brother and her mother who lets him get away with being a total asshole and even blames Marianne for his bad behavior, but I wanted to know more. I also wanted to know more about Connells story with his mom and his apparently absent dad, but I wonder if all of that was in the book, which is on my To Read list. What I found really interesting about Connell is how it became increasingly clear that as popular as he was in high school, he was also terribly shy and uncomfortable in his own skin, and even though he had friends and family, he was terribly lonely, so the second he left home, with people that already knew him, he found himself adrift, while Marianne's intellectual snarkiness helped her find her people in college. Thats probably why Marianne and Connell kept being drawn back to each other, they both put up a front that hid serious self esteem issues and a feeling of being misunderstood and isolated. 

I found the bondage stuff with Marianne to be really strange, like the bit when she asked Connell to hit her when they had sex and he freaked out, the whole thing was just weird. It had that "only damaged people who hate themselves and sadists like bondage" lesson that I always find annoying and weirdly prudish. Marianne really has the worst taste in men other than Connell, and even he didn't always treat her great in high school, especially her awful college boyfriend Jamie. Connell showed a ton of restraint not punching him in his smug shitty face.

It really took Marianne a long time to notice the financial discrepancy between her and Connell, it had to be basically spelled out to her in sky writing that while she didn't have to worry about money, Connell really did. Like when she got all offended that Connell had to leave Dublin for the summer and took it as some kind of swipe at her, and not that he literally couldn't afford it, or her applying for the scholarship just to as an intellectual exercise, while Connell HAD to try for it because he needed the money. 

I studied abroad in Dublin (and hung out in Galway a few times) so this also gave me a lot of nostalgia.  

The book does not delve into Marianne's past in any meaningful way.  The book gradually becomes Connell's book as he is the character who gets explored in more detail.  

[absnow54]

5 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The book does not delve into Marianne's past in any meaningful way.  The book gradually becomes Connell's book as he is the character who gets explored in more detail.  

Agreed. The show actually does a better job of developing Marianne's family than the book did. Her brother was just an over the top ass in the book (more so than the show, but at least it was more obvious in the show how insecure and jealous he was of Marianne's potential), and her mother was just kind of there. 

[Avabelle]

I thought the mother was an over the top villain in the book too. Like she had zero characterisation except to hate or be cruel to Marianne. It just felt like more of a plot device to push Marianne being a victim then anything g else. 

[kieyra]

So I borrowed the book and skimmed it. I can see why people say the show is better than the book. Maybe I'm not sophisticated enough to appreciate it*, but it kind of reads like a rough draft. Maybe leaving so much stuff undeveloped and unsaid (and un-quotation-marked) was intentional. But for me, this story almost doesn't work without the visual medium, and being able to see the actors' faces.

A lot of the dialogue in the show is lifted word for word from the book, but has much more impact in the show's world. 

(*Although I love Hilary Mantel's Wolf Hall books, and lord knows people reviled her grammatical tics and conceits.)

 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, kieyra said:

So I borrowed the book and skimmed it. I can see why people say the show is better than the book. Maybe I'm not sophisticated enough to appreciate it*, but it kind of reads like a rough draft. Maybe leaving so much stuff undeveloped and unsaid (and un-quotation-marked) was intentional. But for me, this story almost doesn't work without the visual medium, and being able to see the actors' faces.

A lot of the dialogue in the show is lifted word for word from the book, but has much more impact in the show's world. 

(*Although I love Hilary Mantel's Wolf Hall books, and lord knows people reviled her grammatical tics and conceits.)

 

I'm a librarian and a reader.  I read across genres but mainly read litfic, and I am not enamoured with Sally Rooney's writing.  The no quotation marks thing is a British quirk of serious fiction.  I and many a litfic reader dislike it and I normally switch over to audiobooks when I encounter it.  I do find a lot of her writing to be unintentionally hilarious.  In the book, Connell goes on a rant about the absurdities of literary circles, but like Connell Ms. Rooney adheres to the same literary affectations she sends up.  She is also supposedly a communist who signed a book deal with a major publishing house, willingly does the press necessary to sell her books, and sold the rights to make this show.  I do realize that everyone needs to make a living, but she could have chosen a small press for her books or chosen to self-publish.

When it comes to Ms. Rooney and her writing, she writes about a very specific bubble of Millennial experiences.  If your experiences align with hers, you love her books.  If they don't, you see the flaws.  

[kieyra]

‘Normal People’ Producers Fire Warning Shot at Pornhub as Pirated Sex Scenes Spread Online

Quote

The producers of Hulu and BBC’s “Normal People” have issued a takedown request to adult site Pornhub after a compilation of sex scenes from the 12-part series surfaced on the video-sharing platform.

 

[Superpole2000]

The music, both the songs and just background sound, were very well chosen. The balance between dialogue and silence was also excellent. I thoroughly enjoyed the show.

My favourite part of the series was when Marianne told Connell that she was humiliated by him keeping her a secret in school. Once she told him that, I thought it should have prevented any sort of romance going forward. A real life version of Marianne probably turns the page on him and doesn't look back because the memory of being hidden is too insulting.

As for Connell, the shyness started to feel unreal after a while. Lots of people grow up shy, but the smart/good looking/athletic ones tend to lose a lot of that shyness as they hit their 20s and the world is almost literally bowing down to them.

And Connell's mom was really relaxed about the sex in their home. I didn't buy that for one second, especially given her past.

[Avabelle]

I actually bought Connells shyness. I think most people become more comfortable in their skin as they get older but not everybody does. Plus Connell went to Trinity which I think is quite a difficult to place to go as you’re up against a lot of stuck up scholars who don’t always think you’re good enough to be there. His conversation with the counselor gave good insight into his state of mind. 
 

However I have reached the point in the series where they’re both just annoying me. Like I know we hate Jamie as he’s a little prick but like, on what planet did Marianne think that bringing her former almost boyfriend on holidays with her current beau would be appropriate. I know they dressed it up as harmless friendship but really it was just an excuse for them to eyefuck each other for a few day’s. Also while I thought Helen was better portrayed in the book I still thought Connell treated her like shite and acted like the Marianne jealousy was in her head while acting painfully inappropriately with Marianne.

They kind of lose me at that point because it does feel like a lot of the thrills come from being the only two to understand each other. In real life that kind of relationship would fall apart once the couple actually get together and there’s no more third parties ie legitimate girlfriend or boyfriend to stand in their way. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Avabelle

[himela]

What I didn't like about this series is that the actress who plays Marianne is supposed to be (or/and feel) ugly while she is not. I mean, the only thing she changed from highschool to college was her clothes and make up. If only the clothes and make up make a woman beautiful, it means she was beautiful all along. I would prefer that there was an actress who was more ugly or at least not that beautiful. She spends all this time thinking that she is ugly and she doesn't deserve Connell, it's kind of ridiculous. I'd find it more fitting if Marianne was played by the chubby girlfriend instead. Not that chubby people are ugly, but they are the ones who usually feel they are ugly.

I can't say I liked this series. I do like drama series and I don't mind when they are slow, but some things were never addressed or explained. Why would her mother who is a lawyer tolerate a husband who beats her? Why would she let her son behave like this? Why would she not speak with her daughter in the end? Why didn't Marianne confront her about these matters? I don't feel I got the answers that I wanted to make this story solved in my mind.

[scrb]

Well that's just TV.  I don't know if the books depict her as ugly.  She said she was called flat-chested in high school, as if that was a reason why she was unpopular.  Don't know if that was in the book or not but may have been a reason why this actress was cast, considering there's a lot of nude scenes featuring her.

Another thing I wonder about the book is whether there were a lot of descriptive sex scenes or they chose to add a lot of them for the show.

Both leads are likely to get many other roles based on this show.  I think they were relatively unknown before.

[kieyra]

On 5/29/2020 at 3:27 PM, scrb said:

Another thing I wonder about the book is whether there were a lot of descriptive sex scenes or they chose to add a lot of them for the show.

From my skim of the book, the sex scenes were fairly ... prosaic, and just a couple of sentences at most. Although I skipped the Jamie stuff.

In the book, when Marianne talks about the school boys calling her ugly, Connell says the same thing he does in the show, that the guy calling her flat chested and ugly would totally get with her if he could.

I like the actress and she’s quite pretty, but she doesn’t give me the same disbelief-suspending hotness level of someone like Maeve in Sex Education. 

[himela]

There are not many women who are flat chested and consider themselves ugly because of this. It would be way more realistic if she had a big nose or an ugly body or something. Not wanting to compare everything with the book and it doesn't matter. You can't show a girl who thinks she is ugly and the only difference in her being ugly and beautiful is the make up and the clothes. She has to have something on her that many people consider ugly and it's not fixed with clothes or make up. They just wanted to have a pretty actress and they sacrificed the logic of the story. 

Just look at the series My mad fat diary and imagine the actress would be a beautiful girl who only is like 10 pounds overweight. Would it be believable?

Edited May 30, 2020 by himela

[Neurochick]

A co worker told me this was great.  I don't know how I feel about this. 

On one hand, I loved the quiet of it all.

On the other hand, WTF did I watch?  They get together; they break up; they get back together; they break up again; they get back together AGAIN, he gets a job in NY and she says, "I want to stay here."  The end?

Why do I feel like I wasted my time?

Quote

I don't agree with it, but she is a product of her environment and so I don't think she, nor Marianne's mother are POS. They're just trying to survive another day.

Wouldn't Connell's mother have come from that same era?  She acted like she had a brain and wasn't abusive.  Can't blame everything on the Catholic church or the patriarchy. 

ETA, I felt that Marianne thought she was ugly because of her shitty mother and brother.  Her mother was a horrible human being, walking right past her daughter in the street without a word.  That's no mother.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Neurochick

[Roseanna]

On 5/30/2020 at 11:16 PM, Neurochick said:

On the other hand, WTF did I watch?  They get together; they break up; they get back together; they break up again; they get back together AGAIN, he gets a job in NY and she says, "I want to stay here."  The end?

One reviewer wrote that they learned how to behave in the relationship: not to hurt the other. not to tolerate to treated badly, to talk about their feeling and needs, to admit their mistakes and to forgive.

That said, to me ten episodes that described almost mainly about relationship issues was a littel too much. It was never told f.ex. what Marianne studied in Sweden.  

[Roseanna]

On 5/19/2020 at 10:45 PM, tennisgurl said:

I think it took me a bit longer to really "get" Marianne and what her damage was, I think I wanted to know more about her family and why she had this terribly low self esteem and such a prickly exterior, especially in high school. I can guess, especially with her awful brother and her mother who lets him get away with being a total asshole and even blames Marianne for his bad behavior, but I wanted to know more. I also wanted to know more about Connells story with his mom and his apparently absent dad, but I wonder if all of that was in the book, which is on my To Read list. 

I don't think that these kind of issues can be "explained". Different persons react differently. 

Although it was sad that her mom totally cut the relationship with Marianne, and not her brother who hurt her, maybe it was best in the long term for otherwise she would perhaps wasted time to get her approval.