S40.E11: This Is Extortion

[blackwing]

4 minutes ago, Bouffe said:

I was annoyed that Sophie let everyone know she had an idol! I wonder if the players will know it comes from another beach or not. They may still go out and search for it.

Regardless of which beach it came from, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they hide more idols.  I think Tony has the only one left, right?  And Michelle has that 50/50 advantage.  I would not be surprised at all if one or both of the producers' darlings, Tony and Ben, find an idol next episode.  Either that or they will give one to Jeremy to make things interesting.

When the show actually airs footage of a fashion show... that's how boring this show has gotten.  From all accounts, these kinds of things happen all the time where people are just having fun being around each other and not thinking about the game, they just never are deemed worthy of air time.  So yeah, I'm predicting that Jeremy and one or both of Tony/Ben find idols soon.

I never heard any pact about the (dis)advantage on EoE.  Did Natalie and Parv agree to split the 6 tokens?  Technically Natalie found everything, right?  She found the first note, then she crawled under the bed.

[peachmangosteen]

3 minutes ago, blackwing said:

When the show actually airs footage of a fashion show... that's how boring this show has gotten. 

Man, that was one of my fave scenes in awhile. I would kill for them to show more stuff like that!

[Nashville]

7 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Sofie's idol is from a different camp so it wouldn't be rehidden. 

But how is Tony going to know that?  I could easily see Tony scooting out before sunrise again “just in case”....

[blackwing]

36 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Man, that was one of my fave scenes in awhile. I would kill for them to show more stuff like that!

I agree, I wish they showed more scenes of "everyday life"... I'd love to hear more of these people talk about their jobs or their kids or whatnot.  I think it's so interesting how these people come from all walks of life and would have nothing in common otherwise.  I'd love to see how a Kentucky lawyer like Nick compares notes with somebody like, say, a Boston firefighter like Jeremy.

This season has been pretty boring to me, probably because I feel like some of the biggest guns and the old school players were all voted out early.  So the strategy and the game must be so boring to watch that the show figured they would throw in this slice of life scene instead.  It was nice to see.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I never heard any pact about the (dis)advantage on EoE.  Did Natalie and Parv agree to split the 6 tokens?  Technically Natalie found everything, right?  She found the first note, then she crawled under the bed.

I don't think they did definitively say who the 6 tokens were going to, but the way Natalie and Parvati were discussing the whole thing leads me to believe Parvati at least got some of them. Technically Natalie did find everything, but she and Parvati worked out what the first clue meant together ("'Rest' must refer to the shelter!" "'Crawl' must mean crawl under it!") and Parvati led everyone away from the shelter to look at the sunset, which was key to Natalie being able to look for it. So I'd say Parvati had a legit claim to some tokens.

[fishcakes]

Such a fun episode. Credit to the editors for the opening scene where Jeremy is sitting in front of the fire and talking in voiceover about using his advantage. Just as he said that POOF! he was gone, the fire flared up. I also enjoyed the funny random shot of Nick smelling his own armpit.

I was dying when Tony was reading the Extortion Advantage. "I would love to extort someone! I can't do it in real life because it's illegal! But I finally get to do it!" [learns that he's the one being extorted] "They can't do this! This is illegal!"

I don't think that Tyson saying Adam won't be able to handle losing is foreshadowing, or maybe I just hope that it's not. Adam is sort of annoying, but he doesn't seem like a bad person and I'd hate to think that the game is so important to him that he'd let not winning it ruin his life. I took Tyson to be speaking more generally because we've certainly seen how some people let losing eat away at them forever: Lex, Savage, Russell, probably Coach. But those guys all range from, like, 25 to 98% douchebag, so I don't really care about their dumb feelings. Adam's just a derpy kid; he needs to find a way to accept that this is just a game, and if he lost, at least he lost to a lot of good players and Ben.

Sophie was one of the people I was rooting for, but that blindside was so beautiful, I can't be mad about it. I've always liked Tony, which helps. And Jeremy giving Ben the stare of death at TC was perfection.

[enoughcats]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I mean, there's a whole island there and an idol is under a rock against a tree.

I would not stick my hand in just any tree trunk....too many poisonous critters of four, eight or several hundred legs.  I'd expect they are restricted to a perimeter that has been soaked with poison to kill the local vermin.  
How many seasons ago did the older man get med-evac ed because of the huge number of fire ant bites he had gotten?

 

Thanks to traceyscott76 for the time summary.  That two hour segment helps. But (there's always a but) that doesn't allow for the return of someone from E0E. That  takes the number back up to 9. 

[watchingtvaddict]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm still highly suspicious of the way people find these "hidden" idols. I mean, there's a whole island there and an idol is under a rock against a tree. Granted there is probably a limited area in which it would be hidden but it seems like the odds are against finding something like that in that terrain. Plus the regularity with which players needing them the most seem to always find them makes it hard to convince me there isn't some outside help involved.

I'm thinking some of these idol finds are re-shot after the fact (the camera doesn't always catch the player finding the idol)... OR players are straight up given an idol and then told to act out "finding one"... In other words, the idols aren't found until production decides someone should find one. We don't see the unfruitful searches because the audience would realise a player looked in the place the idol was ultimately discovered. 

[skybolt]

Not a big fan of the Extortion disadvantage. What's stopping someone on Edge from asking for 12 tokens just so they can get back at someone who voted them out? 

[WhereThereIsLife]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

I agree, I wish they showed more scenes of "everyday life"... I'd love to hear more of these people talk about their jobs or their kids or whatnot.  I think it's so interesting how these people come from all walks of life and would have nothing in common otherwise.  I'd love to see how a Kentucky lawyer like Nick compares notes with somebody like, say, a Boston firefighter like Jeremy.

SNIP

The last time I remember seeing ‘life around camp’ was when we learned that Rodney’s mother is a whore.  Which then took up several minutes at the reunion proving that this comment was NOT taken out of context, as was claimed in exit interviews by the man who declared we would remember him with either love or hatred.

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, skybolt said:

Not a big fan of the Extortion disadvantage. What's stopping someone on Edge from asking for 12 tokens just so they can get back at someone who voted them out? 

Well, I guess they could.  But then there’s a high chance the extortee fails, sits out the immunity and loses his vote.  Which is dandy for people in the game, but it also means the extorter gets zero tokens.  So it’s a question of “how many tokens do you think the target will reasonably be able to get”.   Ask for too many out of greed and there’s the chance they get none.  6 is not 8 or 10 or 12 but it’s definitely more than zero.

[BK1978]

I am always shocked when players like Michelle and Sophie are aware that people think of them as lesser tier winners.  I guess I should not be, but if I won I would take Rob's approach of, "I still won, what does it matter what people say?"

I hope these fire tokens things are one and done.  I really do not want to see them become part of the game.  It is bad enough we have Idols and advantages being handed out right and left but now we have ways to fuck people's game up just for the hell of it.

I am not saying that because I honestly like Tony, I would hate it if it happened to someone I despise like Natalie. 

[HeShallBMySquishy]

18 hours ago, violet and green said:

Oh, that ep was a Tony Palooza! Fantastic. Immunity again, after all that. And he found an idol.

I'm a bit worried about the repercussions for him of orchestrating that vote, but god it was fun to watch. I find him so endearing. People talk about him being hard to live with; can't be too hard as three people gave him their fire tokens which he may or may not have been ever able to pay back. Anyway, I'd rather be stuck in a shack with someone enthusiastic and imaginative and goofy than any of the rest of those grey-faced sadsacks left on the island.

Such fun getting Sophie out with an idol in her crotch. I would have preferred Jeremy to go, but maybe that's better for Tony's game. All I care about currently!

I am looking forward to next week, and cannot wait also for the obligatory scene of Adam hysterically weeping with a wide open mouth, a touch of drool, and maybe chewing at the sand, also, that was hopefully foreshadowed by Tyson's comment; or else he was just mentioning day to day life with Adam on Extinction.

Awwwww man(or woman), I was so on board with your assessment...until the last paragraph. And now, I think our friendship must end. (I am totally kidding. lol)

18 hours ago, Lamima said:

True. And while he sucks at the game and bugs the other players...the drama it causes makes for some interesting TV. Better than Michelle and her 'why didn't you ever call me, Wendell' obsession. And now that Wendell is gone she's back to even more boring, piece of furniture, Michelle.

Damn, the recent editing just makes me even more irritated with the editors.

17 hours ago, Eolivet said:

A crotch idol is not exactly unprecedented, right, @HeShallBMySquishy?

No it does not, @Eolivet. I am very aware of that snippet, lol. Be still my heart!! Also, I cannot believe I know exactly what movies were released in North America this weekend in 1995, but I can't remember details of the season(s) that just happened.

Edited April 24, 2020 by HeShallBMySquishy

[HeShallBMySquishy]

5 hours ago, WhereThereIsLife said:

The last time I remember seeing ‘life around camp’ was when we learned that Rodney’s mother is a whore.  Which then took up several minutes at the reunion proving that this comment was NOT taken out of context, as was claimed in exit interviews by the man who declared we would remember him with either love or hatred.

Holy shit, how in the hell did I miss that? I'm thinking that I need to catch up on certain seasons: Michele, Kim, Sophie, Wendell for sure (and Adam, of course). I thought my memory was pretty decent, but damnit, why am I only remembering things from years ago? I used to make lists, and some of the lists I can remember making is what opened in North American movie theatres during the year.

I can remember what opened in theatres on April 21, 1995. (It was The Basketball Diaries, a drama starring Leonardo DiCaprio and Mark Wahlberg; also, The Cure, an AIDS drama with Brad Renfro; Kiss of Death, a crime drama based on the 1947 noir classic that David Caruso staked his TV career on; and While You Were Sleeping, the first film where Sandy had to carry the entire movie, post-Speed.

For crying out loud, how can I remember when movies from 25 years ago opened, but I can't remember what my new nephew's name is. (His name is Lennox. 😄 )

[Guest]

8 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Thanks to traceyscott76 for the time summary.  That two hour segment helps. But (there's always a but) that doesn't allow for the return of someone from E0E. That  takes the number back up to 9.

You're welcome. Actually, my hypothetical schedule does allow for it. They go into the finale with 5 people left, then the first segment of the finale brings the returnee back, bringing it up to 6. Then there's two regular tribals, the fire-making, and the final tribal.

It seems like a lot to fit in, but that's how they did it in the first EoE. (Finale started with Victoria, Lauren, Rick, Julie and Gavin still in the game, then Chris returned, and they went from there.) And lately, the game portion has been bleeding into the third hour so there's more time for all this stuff.

[AncientNewbie]

As for idol hunts--there's a Laura Morett interview where she claims that she had just looked someplace for an idol and there wasn't one and ten minutes later Hantz pulled one from the same spot. Lucky timing? Interference? Probably depends on your feelings about RH and production.

There was a Ben quote earlier this season where he was teaching someone about idol hunting and gave the tip (not an exact quote) that it's tied with a colored string that stands out when you see it. Again, don't know if that's accurate or just the strings they tied to his finger leading to idols in his season. (I kid. I have nothing against him other than he's a good target.)

I did like the fashion show bit. It wasn't "gameplay" in the sense that Tony, and many others, wanted, but it does touch on how we've had a web of alliances this season and not immovable blocs. Sure, that stuff always happens and it's clipped in favor of strict roles where you never seen Bad Guy and Good Guy chatting about baseball, but I thought it actually fit the idea of this season.

[ProfCrash]

9 hours ago, skybolt said:

Not a big fan of the Extortion disadvantage. What's stopping someone on Edge from asking for 12 tokens just so they can get back at someone who voted them out? 

They could ask for 12 tokens. They would be in great shape if they got 12 tokens but anyone who did that should know that they are not likely to get 12 tokens. That player will have decided that vengeance against a player is better for them. It is different style of game play but one that is feasible strategy.

Would Tony have been voted out? Probably not. He is a member of the larger alliance. On top of that, he had an idol in his pocket. The player on EoE would not have some of that information but it is too easy for the attempt to handicap a player to fail. 

On top of that, I don't the players in the game know who is sending the advantages and disadvantages. So it doesn't help someone in terms of game play or winning/losing favor in the game.

[skybolt]

As far as just the next episode is concerned, I can't picture any scenario where Jeremy, Nick or Michelle flip on Tony. Will Denise and Kim even try to approach Jeremy after fooling him this week? Jeremy already hates Ben and has no relationship with Sarah. It's obvious now that Nick was targeted as an ally by Tony first. He went from the bottom, to the fifth option on a 5-person alliance, to a 4-person alliance with Michelle included. Is he really going to work with the other 4 at this point? Michelle will also not switch next episode since she's tight with Jeremy and Nick. and is finally in on the vote.

[skybolt]

9 hours ago, blackwing said:

Well, I guess they could.  But then there’s a high chance the extortee fails, sits out the immunity and loses his vote.  Which is dandy for people in the game, but it also means the extorter gets zero tokens.  So it’s a question of “how many tokens do you think the target will reasonably be able to get”.   Ask for too many out of greed and there’s the chance they get none.  6 is not 8 or 10 or 12 but it’s definitely more than zero.

My point is with respect to someone already eliminated at EoE solely looking for revenge and not caring if they get back tokens to buy a jar of peanut butter (especially if they know they have zero chance to win the return challenge). For instance, if Sandra was still on Edge and found the bottle, she could've easily asked Denise for 20 fire tokens to basically ruin her game. Again, this was not just losing your vote at tribal without anyone knowing, but also not participating at the immunity challenge. Not only that, but if Tony did not come up with the 6 tokens, everyone would've been aware that he's vulnerable, because I imagine the note would've been read out-loud at the immunity challenge. Going back to the Sandra scenario, it would've been ludicrous for allowing Sandra to eliminate her after the great move Denise pulled off.

[Birnam Wood]

I find Tony's antics both entertaining and exhausting (and I think he's getting a bit of the Devens edit; he won't win). However, as I was watching him, I couldn't help but think that a woman would never, ever get away with the kind of showy gameplay that he's exhibiting. It's not an exact analogue, but his "I'm going to make a move just because I can" approach reminds me a lot of "Chaos" Kass -- who also had a great sense of humour about herself -- and we all know how she's viewed in the annals of Survivor history. 

Kim and Denise are, IMHO, playing well (and Sophie was too, until hubris caught up with her. ALWAYS assume you could be targeted, especially if your name came up last time!). How else are they supposed to play? If Denise hadn't scuttled back into the shadows immediately after getting rid of Sandra, I suspect that she'd be trying to keep Adam from losing his shit on EoE.

Also, what in the name of Jebus was that cacophony they were playing when people were voting? SETTLE DOWN, music editors.

[Guest]

I agree that the extortion "advantage" could cause problems, but in this instance, I found it quite cool. Not only Tony's initial glee and subsequent distress (all delivered with his tongue in his cheek), but when Nat/Parv first suggested 6 tokens, I thought that was ridiculous; no one was going to be able to pay that! But darn it all if Tony didn't do it, by successfully soliciting tokens from BOTH of his alliances that he was flitting between.

So it showcased good gameplay not only from Tony, but also from Nat/Parv for making a good educated guess about who would go for it.

[skybolt]

21 minutes ago, Birnam Wood said:

I find Tony's antics both entertaining and exhausting (and I think he's getting a bit of the Devens edit; he won't win). However, as I was watching him, I couldn't help but think that a woman would never, ever get away with the kind of showy gameplay that he's exhibiting. It's not an exact analogue, but his "I'm going to make a move just because I can" approach reminds me a lot of "Chaos" Kass -- who also had a great sense of humour about herself -- and we all know how she's viewed in the annals of Survivor history. 

Kim and Denise are, IMHO, playing well (and Sophie was too, until hubris caught up with her. ALWAYS assume you could be targeted, especially if your name came up last time!). How else are they supposed to play? If Denise hadn't scuttled back into the shadows immediately after getting rid of Sandra, I suspect that she'd be trying to keep Adam from losing his shit on EoE.

Also, what in the name of Jebus was that cacophony they were playing when people were voting? SETTLE DOWN, music editors.

Comparing Chaos Kass to Tony is like comparing Angie Layton to Parvati.

[Nashville]

37 minutes ago, Birnam Wood said:

Also, what in the name of Jebus was that cacophony they were playing when people were voting? SETTLE DOWN, music editors.

Agree; I kept half-expecting one of the voters to suddenly turn around, look up, and shout, “WOULD YOU TURN THAT SHIT DOWN!?!?  I CAN’T THINK TO WRITE IN HERE!!!”

[Bouffe]

15 hours ago, blackwing said:

I never heard any pact about the (dis)advantage on EoE.  Did Natalie and Parv agree to split the 6 tokens?  Technically Natalie found everything, right?  She found the first note, then she crawled under the bed.

13 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I don't think they did definitively say who the 6 tokens were going to, but the way Natalie and Parvati were discussing the whole thing leads me to believe Parvati at least got some of them. Technically Natalie did find everything, but she and Parvati worked out what the first clue meant together ("'Rest' must refer to the shelter!" "'Crawl' must mean crawl under it!") and Parvati led everyone away from the shelter to look at the sunset, which was key to Natalie being able to look for it. So I'd say Parvati had a legit claim to some tokens.

I haven't heard Nat and Parv make a pact either, but the way Nat was saying it was team work (Parv leading people away from camp, Nat looking under the shelter) leads me to believe they'll share the 6 tokens. If they don't, I could totally see Parv telling everyone about it!

15 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Man, that was one of my fave scenes in awhile. I would kill for them to show more stuff like that!

I'd like to see more daily life scenes as well. I always enjoy seeing how they pass the time. It was nice to see Michelle and another player (who was it?) play chess with the coloured rocks they painted.

27 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

So it showcased good gameplay not only from Tony, but also from Nat/Parv for making a good educated guess about who would go for it.

Who else left in the game (let's include Sophie since she was still part of the castaways playing when the extortion "advantage" was played) would have paid the 6 tokens and gone for it? Jeremy had 2 tokens and would need 4. I can't see him even trying to get that many tokens from the others. Ben... I don't know how many he's got, but I could see him attempt to wrangle the tokens needed. Denise/Michelle are not on anyone's radar per say, so I think they'd reject it. Nick... I don't know how many tokens he's got. It would have been interesting to see how he'd wrestle with the decision. Sarah... I think Sarah would have gone for it, too. But Tony was definitely the one that was a sure thing, IMO.

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Birnam Wood said:

I find Tony's antics both entertaining and exhausting (and I think he's getting a bit of the Devens edit; he won't win). However, as I was watching him, I couldn't help but think that a woman would never, ever get away with the kind of showy gameplay that he's exhibiting. It's not an exact analogue, but his "I'm going to make a move just because I can" approach reminds me a lot of "Chaos" Kass -- who also had a great sense of humour about herself -- and we all know how she's viewed in the annals of Survivor history.

Kass may have had a sense of humor about herself, but I don't think "Chaos" Kass was indicative of that. Her turning on her alliance to target Sarah may have been partly gameplay, but it was also borne out of her palpable anger and frustration over being left out. She was sour as hell, and it showed. I don't recall any of the humor that Tony showed here.

This doesn't disprove your point about women not getting away with the same showy gameplay that Tony does, as I can't really think of one who did, but I think Kass is not a good example.

[plotpointer]

On 4/22/2020 at 6:52 PM, Growsonwalls said:

I have no idea whether this is true but I got the distinct vibe that Sophie/Sarah/Ben aren't that pleasant to be around. I think Nick is sort of at the bottom no matter what, he might have just decided to go with the group that's more pleasant. No idea but that was my guess.

It’s quite obvious Ben isn’t pleasant to be around.

I never watched Sarah’s season, but she looks like a miserable egg.

Sophie just seems boring.  

[skybolt]

Not sure how the extortion advantage can be used on future seasons without Edge of Extinction. Can you imagine a player extorting someone else still in the game for 6 tokens and the other person running around telling people I need tokens because Player A is trying to extort me? That would be horrible for your game. 

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, plotpointer said:

I never watched Sarah’s season, but she looks like a miserable egg.

I rolled!

Sarah and Jeremy really do suffer from a resting face that makes them look miserable and/or angry nearly all the time.

[BrooklynRat]

On 4/22/2020 at 8:44 PM, ProfCrash said:

Finally a decent episode. I can understand Tony, Jeremy, and Michelle’s vote but I don’t get what Nick was thinking. Is Nick certain he is at the bottom of that alliance? Tony will catch most of the heat but people are going to want to know who the fourth vote was.  

I am glad Jeremy is still in the game but damn is he in trouble. 

Tony is the player who would drive me crazy. My god is his energy all over the place but he played that perfectly. The late conversations and the blind side. It was brilliant.

Tony finally made the play I’ve  been yelling at the screen for about 10 years—

make a big, unexpected move;

late in the day; 

with a trusted few. 

I was worried Jeremy was going to wuss out! It was so satisfying to watch it succeed. 

I’ve previously found Tony exhausting to listen to but he’s capable of the wily, enthusiastic game play I want in a Survivor winner.  He’s won me over— in a season where I had no clear preference going in. I’ll be happy if he or Denise win, or if Natalie makes it back in somehow and gets to the end. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by BrooklynRat
Typo

[skybolt]

I'm listening to some podcasts and everyone is saying that the remaining players are fools for not targeting Tony, since he'll win for sure if he makes it to final tribal. I'm not really buying that if I'm Nick or Michelle. If I were them I would rather be sitting next to Tony than someone like Kim or Denise. Tony is a great player, but he can be off putting as well, especially to old school players. Rob, Parvati and Tyson will likely not vote for him so he doesn't get that top legendary status. Michelle against Kim would have zero chance at winning, but she can at least showcase a different style of game play to the jury if pitted against Tony.

[Birnam Wood]

2 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Kass may have had a sense of humor about herself, but I don't think "Chaos" Kass was indicative of that. Her turning on her alliance to target Sarah may have been partly gameplay, but it was also borne out of her palpable anger and frustration over being left out. She was sour as hell, and it showed. I don't recall any of the humor that Tony showed here.

This doesn't disprove your point about women not getting away with the same showy gameplay that Tony does, as I can't really think of one who did, but I think Kass is not a good example.

Oh yeah, I agree that Kass as the Tony figure in her season(s) is a flawed analogy, but she's the best example I could come up with (I will admit that the later seasons tend to blend together for me). And that's the problem. Any woman who decides to play a big, loud game will be voted off lickety-split -- she likely won't even make it to the merge.

I don't want to pursue this too far for fear of getting off-topic; however, women often lose to loud men at the final TC because they played an UTR game that the jury doesn't respect (and neither does the viewer; the editors are too busy showing us Tony hanging out of trees, tearing through the jungle, or giving one of his 18[!!!] confessionals). 

[Sweet-tea]

On 4/22/2020 at 8:06 PM, Rachel RSL said:

I’m glad Tony is still around. I just find him so entertaining! 

I do too! He's comic relief on this show. He just makes me chuckle. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Birnam Wood said:

Oh yeah, I agree that Kass as the Tony figure in her season(s) is a flawed analogy, but she's the best example I could come up with (I will admit that the later seasons tend to blend together for me). And that's the problem. Any woman who decides to play a big, loud game will be voted off lickety-split -- she likely won't even make it to the merge.

I don't want to pursue this too far for fear of getting off-topic; however, women often lose to loud men at the final TC because they played an UTR game that the jury doesn't respect (and neither does the viewer; the editors are too busy showing us Tony hanging out of trees, tearing through the jungle, or giving one of his 18[!!!] confessionals). 

Agreed that this might get off-topic, but I might suggest Sandra as an example? Her strategy might not be super showy, but her general state of being can be...and she can GET LOUD TOO WTF. And she was rewarded for it twice, although the only loud, showy man she was up against in either of her final TCs had his own issues.

She wasn't rewarded for it this season, though. (There, back on topic 😉 )

Edited April 24, 2020 by tracyscott76
Correct verb tenses are my friend

[CountryGirl]

At this point, it’s Tony’s game to lose. 

[Dominii]

On 4/22/2020 at 7:52 PM, Growsonwalls said:

I have no idea whether this is true but I got the distinct vibe that Sophie/Sarah/Ben aren't that pleasant to be around.

Yep, me too.  I'm especially not fond of Sarah.  Just a feeling...

[SVNBob]

On 4/22/2020 at 8:05 PM, susannot said:

 Sophie, damn girl, why didn't you play your idol?

Because she had no clue the vote was even coming her way.  This was a true #Blindside.

 

On 4/23/2020 at 12:29 AM, Hera said:

I've been rooting for the Kim/Denise/Jeremy alliance, but I think that's well and truly sunk now. The dynamics of how Tony split them up were really interesting, though: Tony admitted in confessionals he was just pretending to be on their side. Jeremy believed Tony, but Kim saw right through him. Then Tony ended up flipping on his "real alliance" to save Jeremy, who had been his initial target, but in a way that separated him from Kim and Denise. So both Kim and Jeremy ended up being correct about how much they could trust Tony—but he managed to make them wrong about how much they could trust each other.

That's a very interesting point.  I was just in awe of the reversal of Tony's mindset.  He started the episode trying to infiltrate the Kim/Jeremy/Denise/Michele group with the goal of voting out one of them.  But by the end, he was targeting someone from his "real" alliance.

On 4/23/2020 at 9:38 AM, skybolt said:

So with Sophie spilling the beans about having an idol in her uhm.....pocket, will that prompt Tony to go out looking for one next morning?

Pocket Idols aren't usually re-hidden.  But who the hell knows this season.  I agree with whoever said that Tony probably will go hunting anyway (with Nick popping up behind him soon after.)

 

14 hours ago, Bouffe said:

Who else left in the game (let's include Sophie since she was still part of the castaways playing when the extortion "advantage" was played) would have paid the 6 tokens and gone for it? Jeremy had 2 tokens and would need 4. I can't see him even trying to get that many tokens from the others. Ben... I don't know how many he's got, but I could see him attempt to wrangle the tokens needed. Denise/Michelle are not on anyone's radar per say, so I think they'd reject it. Nick... I don't know how many tokens he's got. It would have been interesting to see how he'd wrestle with the decision. Sarah... I think Sarah would have gone for it, too. But Tony was definitely the one that was a sure thing, IMO.

Looking back at the Tracker from last week, here's everyone's (including Sophie's) token balance as of the start of this episode.  IE. the information Nat and Parv had to work with.

• Ben - 1  (his original from Day 1)
• Denise - 3
• Jeremy - 2
• Kim - 2
• Michele - 0
• Nick - 3
• Sarah - 1
• Sophie - 2
• Tony - 3

Even with two other people with 3 tokens, Tony is the best option, as they knew he'd scramble like hell to find a way to pay and play.  Even moreso without a backup idol in his pocket.

Denise and Kim would like have shared tokens with each other, so between them, they'd only need to find one.  And since this was pre-IC, they'd possibly hit up Jeremy.  Sarah would also be a likely choice, given the post-IC planning.

Sarah would tell Tony about it, and he'd probably give her 2 tokens.  They'd also hit up the rest of that alliance, with Tony going to Nick and Ben on her behalf, while she went to Sophie herself.

With Nick, I think he'd also go to Tony first, and Tony would again contribute 2 tokens.  And then Tony would go to Ben to get the last one.

Sophie...probably wouldn't have paid.  She'd have felt comfortable enough with her alliance and her idol to not feel the need to pay.

Now, if the screw-over option was Nat and Parv's actual goal, they would have played the Extortion on either Ben or Jeremy.  Parv knew Michele had 0 tokens, because they've been eating peanut butter thanks to her.  But she might have been able to gather enough tokens together (likely by going to all the women and Jeremy).  Ben doesn't seem to have the social capital or respect to get 5 tokens.  And Jeremy burnt everyone by leaving at the prior TC, so he probably wouldn't be able to gather any tokens either.

 

On 4/22/2020 at 8:52 PM, Alice Mudgarden said:

What I want to know is what that little snippet of Tyson saying to Wendell that Adam won't be able to handle losing was all about. It felt like they were laying a foundation for something that's gonna happen but I can't imagine a superfan like Adam bailing on the game before it was done, even if it's to be a jury member.

 

On 4/23/2020 at 8:44 PM, fishcakes said:

I don't think that Tyson saying Adam won't be able to handle losing is foreshadowing, or maybe I just hope that it's not. Adam is sort of annoying, but he doesn't seem like a bad person and I'd hate to think that the game is so important to him that he'd let not winning it ruin his life. I took Tyson to be speaking more generally because we've certainly seen how some people let losing eat away at them forever: Lex, Savage, Russell, probably Coach. But those guys all range from, like, 25 to 98% douchebag, so I don't really care about their dumb feelings. Adam's just a derpy kid; he needs to find a way to accept that this is just a game, and if he lost, at least he lost to a lot of good players and Ben.

I'm not sure that that bit of philosophy was specifically about Adam.  But I found it incredibly fascinating.  And it could only come from an "old-schooler".  Because, other than Yul and Danni, all the old-schoolers, including the conspicuous-by-her-absence Queen, have also lost the game.  So they know both sides of of the Wide World of Sports equation; the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat.

The only "new-schoolers" who have also lost are Jeremy and Tony.  (Natalie I guess could count, since she didn't win TAR (I think...I haven't seen the Twinnies Race yet), but I'm specifically referring to Survivor here.)  So instead of foreshadowing an Adam breakdown, it could be shedding light on a person in the game with a mental advantage that could help them win in the end.

[Virulent]

Comparing Kass to Tony is ludicrous. Tony has an abrasive personality but he actually controlled the vast majority of Cagayan. Kass made one move, a terrible one that gave all the power to Tony's tribe. Tony had some abrasive interactions, notably with Kass and one after tribal where he got spooked after receiving votes. 

 

Kass literally fought with everyone on the season, her ego was hurt by Sarah so she turned on her after having fights with her. During the Morgan episode they spent the whole time bickering, she flipped the bird to Trish after sending her home. Toyed with Spencer's emotions at the final 4 vote. She also weirdly convinced herself that she heard Tony call her a b*tch which the show proved absolutely did not happen. She was a horrible person. 

 

Tony's energetic which gets mistaken for obnoxiousness, but almost everyone he's played with likes him excluding Kass. Joe Reid and others find him obnoxious but he's likable to me. I agree there's double standards in Survivor with women and people in the mom role. But Kass is the worst example, better examples of people who played good games but were hindered because of that were Monica and definitely Dawn. 

[ProfCrash]

I don't even think that Tony is abrasive. His loud and manic but not abrasive. He drives me crazy but that is because he is always moving and talking and doing something. He is the kid in school that desperately needs Ritalin so he can stop fidgeting and jumping up and down. 

Kass was a bit too much of a know it all and trying to cause chaos with her behavior intentionally. I came off as mean spirited and disruptive. Tony just causes chaos because of how he lives life. 

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't even think that Tony is abrasive. His loud and manic but not abrasive. He drives me crazy but that is because he is always moving and talking and doing something. He is the kid in school that desperately needs Ritalin so he can stop fidgeting and jumping up and down. 

This is what I get from him most of them time but he can also be a real asshole, like most of his interactions with Kass and when he was refusing to participate in Sarah's fashion show.

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't even think that Tony is abrasive.

Really?  Depends upon the circumstances, of course, but I frequently find Tony abrasive to the point he makes 40-grit sandpaper look like Charmin Ultra-Soft.

By which I mean, yeah - Tony royally chafes my ass.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Nashville
Chafes, not chaps. Damn autocorrect.

[Birnam Wood]

I’m just going to leave this here because I think it provides a timely (and hilarious) illustration of the idea that abrasiveness is not a gendered quality: http://funny115.com/v3_3/13.htm

To get back on topic, it seems to me that Kim is gradually turning back into her bad-ass One World self. And if that happens, I for one am here for it.

[ProfCrash]

I wouldn't want to play with Tony, I think that he is exhausting and can be annoying. He has no filter and is pretty direct but that describes me to a T. I think he is pretty direct when he doesn't like someone, like Kass, and comes off as rude and dismissive. Then again, Kass drove me nuts with her play. 

[skybolt]

I hate the fact that we still don't know how many fire tokens Natalie or Parvati have. Some Podcasts say that Parvati now has a gazillion fire tokens, but she could also have as little as zero. I still don't know if the peanut butter jar now costs 4 tokens or if Natalie even split her tokens withe Parvati. For all we know is that they spent another 4 tokens buying another jar of peanut butter and split the remaining 2 tokens. I just feel like if Survivor wants us to care about EoE extinction, then at least give us a tally of what each person has. Heck, they could even put a summary at the bottom of screen at the beginning of each episode to inform the viewer. I also didn't like the fact that Jeff didn't even initially know that Rob and Natalie's immunity idols were still active.

[peachmangosteen]

14 minutes ago, skybolt said:

Heck, they could even put a summary [of fire tokens] at the bottom of screen at the beginning of each episode to inform the viewer.

They do. If Parvati and/or Natalie get confessionals in the next ep then we'll know how many they have. Also, @SVNBob keeps track of that stuff and posts it in the Tribe Tracker thread.

[skybolt]

2 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

They do. If Parvati and/or Natalie get confessionals in the next ep then we'll know how many they have. Also, @SVNBob keeps track of that stuff and posts it in the Tribe Tracker thread.

Thanks for the link. Did they show that Parvati has zero fire tokens now (after buying the jar of peanut butter for presumably 4 tokens) or is that a guess? Also, the link shows that Natalie has 6 fire tokens. Was it confirmed that she didn't give any to Parvati? 

[peachmangosteen]

2 minutes ago, skybolt said:

Also, the link shows that Natalie has 6 fire tokens. Was it confirmed that she didn't give any to Parvati? 

I don't believe that is confirmed but should be in the next ep if Parvati and/or Natalie have a confessional, which likely one of them will. I am personally assuming they shared them though but I guess SVNBob is assuming Natalie kept them all.

[skybolt]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't believe that is confirmed but should be in the next ep if Parvati and/or Natalie have a confessional, which likely one of them will. I am personally assuming they shared them though but I guess SVNBob is assuming Natalie kept them all.

I'm having a hard time recollecting, but I can't remember seeing the fire token tally at the bottom of the screen for the EoE players. As I noted above, they never showed that Parvati had zero tokens (or more) when she had her confessional this week, so I'm not confident that they'll show what Natalie has next week.  If she doesn't get a confessional, which is highly likely, then we won't find out at all. I think at minimum they could've at least given us a 2 second glance of the new EoE menu with the increased prices.

[peachmangosteen]

3 minutes ago, skybolt said:

I'm having a hard time recollecting, but I can't remember seeing the fire token tally at the bottom of the screen for the EoE players. 

Oh really? I know they do for players in the game so I just assumed they would for EoE players as well. If they don't, that is annoying. I don't know why they seem to think it's a good thing to keep viewers in the dark so much (what with the whispering and now this). Personally though, I don't even pay attention to it because I don't really care lol but still.

[peachmangosteen]

9 minutes ago, skybolt said:

As I noted above, they never showed that Parvati had zero tokens (or more) when she had her confessional this week ...

I just went back and checked the ep and they did indeed show in Parvati's confessional that she had 0 fire tokes.

[skybolt]

4 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I just went back and checked the ep and they did indeed show in Parvati's confessional that she had 0 fire tokes.

Thanks for doing that. I guess the peanut butter jar does cost 4 fire tokens now. If that's the case, then I assume the price for an advantage or immunity idol to return wen t up as well. Can you imagine if the price for an immunity idol went up to 6 fire tokens and Natalie bought a second one? Coming back with 2 idols after being voted out first would ruin the game for me.