S05.E05: Dedicado a Max

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2020.03.16

Quote

Mike takes an impromptu trip out of town.  As she and Jimmy grow closer over their campaign to help a client, Kim makes a surprising call.

 

[Dianaofthehunt]

What, what, what? Was was the thing Kim saw in the photos of Kevin’s office?

Her imitation of him was the highlight of the episode.

[Ohwell]

I really, really don't care about that grizzly old fuck Acker, and why Kim is so hellbent on helping him.  I hate that they've stretched this out and I want it to end.  Kim is just as much of a scumbag as Jimmy and I hope she winds up serving some time in jail.

The only thing I liked in this episode was the woman and Mike and her taking care of him.  

 

 

[scenario]

11 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I really, really don't care about that grizzly old fuck Acker, and why Kim is so hellbent on helping him.  I hate that they've stretched this out and I want it to end.  Kim is just as much of a scumbag as Jimmy and I hope she winds up serving some time in jail.

The only thing I liked in this episode was the woman and Mike and her taking care of him.  

 

 

Stretching things out is in the DNA of Breaking Bad/BCS. If you are looking for fast pace show, BCS isn't it. If you don't find watching scumbags interesting, once again Breaking Bad/BCS is probably not for you. There are only a handful of characters in both shows that aren't scumbags in one way or another. Many are downright evil. Others are good people but really obnoxious. Or they are minor characters who only get 5 minutes of screen time a few times a season. 

The woman in this episode seems nice but I bet if they ever dug into her story line, she'd be be either evil or obnoxious somehow. Innocent bystanders can be nice. Very few others can be. 

One thing I love about this show is that Kim's behavior makes perfect sense to me, in the sense that it seems like something Kim would do. Very serious and studious on the outside, takes no prisoners when she gets pissed. And she gets angry over things she shouldn't.  

[nodorothyparker]

Man, when Jimmy of all people is telling you that you've taken things far enough and it's time to let it go, that should probably be your giant flashing stop sign.  As it was, I was all but watching Kim's scene with Rich at the end through my fingers.  Her descent is painful to watch and has taken on an almost horror movie quality where you're screaming at her to get out, don't go back in the house, when you damn well know she's going to go back for more.

[ShadowFacts]

I don't think Kim even cares about Acker now. I think she wants to take down Kevin, which seems kind of abrupt and out of the blue.  She's going full on Bonnie and Clyde. 

As much as I can't really abide Gus lately, I felt a little bit on his side against the Salamancas after seeing him at the memorial to Max.  His revenge quest is not hard to understand.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I have to make a call....So, I will.

This was an intensely pleasurable episode for me.  The menace was visceral, but not front and center.  The villa was of evil, yet was good.  Mike found a piece of humanity despite all odds.  Fashioning a proper sill for Senora was deeply satisfying.

Rhea's wild eyes as she rose from the bed asking, "Or?" were chilling to behold.  Kim is gone.  The later scene with Rich who did a bit of fashioning of his own was tremendously difficult to see, yet every last second of it was organic/earned, imo.  Metaphorically, I needed a shower.    

Mister X!

It is almost incredible to me that Kevin is actually a sympathetic character.  It will be no bueno when he realizes he's been conned by Giselle.  

I hated the confrontation and the understanding Mike forced with Gus.  It was great storytelling, but I hate what it portends.  Can Mike please change his mind and work for Slippin' Jimmy again? Please????

[BradandJanet]

So, Kim is going after Kevin, a move Saul dangled in front of her by telling her it was too dangerous to consider. He knew she would be interested. The photo was a print(?) of a cowboy on a horse, which is also the Mesa Verde logo. Examining the picture, she saw a signed date of 1958 in the corner. It could be that Kevin stole an artist's work for his company, but that doesn't seem like enough to ruin him. The date must be important, however. 

[Ellaria]

This may be heresy but I’m not interested in Mike’s adventures in carpentry in Mexico. I did enjoy seeing Gus in sunlight for a change, especially in that spiffy suit. That small village with the fountain memorial to Max was charming until I realized that it is a symbol of the revenge that Gus is seeking.

Kim’s spiral into self-sabotage is hard to watch. She identifies with the underdog rather than the wealthy, confident lawyers and executives that she works with. Her animosity towards Kevin is a bit sudden but, even worse, it may be putting her on the path of no return with Jimmy. Something will ultimately pull her back but I can’t imagine when or how it happens.

An observation: Howard is relaxing at home barefoot but wearing his tie, dress shirt and slacks. Odd. Don’t most guys want to take off their ties as soon as they can?

3 minutes ago, BradandJanet said:

So, Kim is going after Kevin, a move Saul dangled in front of her by telling her it was too dangerous to consider. He knew she would be interested. The photo was a print(?) of a cowboy on a horse, which is also the Mesa Verde logo. Examining the picture, she saw a signed date of 1958 in the corner. It could be that Kevin stole an artist's work for his company, but that doesn't seem like enough to ruin him. The date must be important, however. 

Thanks for the explanation. I couldn’t tell what she saw in that photo.

[Dev F]

Just now, BradandJanet said:

So, Kim is going after Kevin, a move Saul dangled in front of her by telling her it was too dangerous to consider. He knew she would be interested. The photo was a print(?) of a cowboy on a horse, which is also the Mesa Verde logo. Examining the picture, she saw a signed date of 1958 in the corner. It could be that Kevin stole an artist's work for his company, but that doesn't seem like enough to ruin him. The date must be important, however. 

I didn't see the date, but I still figured that was probably the leverage Kim thought she'd found -- that Kevin had plagiarized an existing work of art to serve as the logo for his company. It wouldn't be enough to ruin him, but it would be very expensive if Mesa Verde had to tear down all its fancy statues, pull all its existing signage and advertising, etc., so Jimmy might be able to convince Kevin to move to the alternate site in exchange for keeping the evidence of the copyright infringement secret.

And that would be a fitting revelation for Kim to arrive at in an episode titled "Dedicado a Max" that focuses on the hidden origins of people's current character.

[DangerousMinds]

58 minutes ago, scenario said:

Stretching things out is in the DNA of Breaking Bad/BCS. If you are looking for fast pace show, BCS isn't it. If you don't find watching scumbags interesting, once again Breaking Bad/BCS is probably not for you. There are only a handful of characters in both shows that aren't scumbags in one way or another. Many are downright evil. Others are good people but really obnoxious. Or they are minor characters who only get 5 minutes of screen time a few times a season. 

The woman in this episode seems nice but I bet if they ever dug into her story line, she'd be be either evil or obnoxious somehow. Innocent bystanders can be nice. Very few others can be. 

One thing I love about this show is that Kim's behavior makes perfect sense to me, in the sense that it seems like something Kim would do. Very serious and studious on the outside, takes no prisoners when she gets pissed. And she gets angry over things she shouldn't.  

Spot on. I am loving watching Kim.

[Quilt Fairy]

I got as far as the scene where "Giselle" is meeting Mr X ("It's my professional name") in the nail salon and realized I just did not care where that storyline was going (or Mike's, for that matter) and changed channels.  It's an 8 episode season and this is where we are in episode 5? 

I knew things would get darker as Jimmy changed into Saul, but I didn't think they'd get this boring. 

[DangerousMinds]

35 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

This may be heresy but I’m not interested in Mike’s adventures in carpentry in Mexico. I did enjoy seeing Gus in sunlight for a change, especially in that spiffy suit. That small village with the fountain memorial to Max was charming until I realized that it is a symbol of the revenge that Gus is seeking.

Kim’s spiral into self-sabotage is hard to watch. She identifies with the underdog rather than the wealthy, confident lawyers and executives that she works with. Her animosity towards Kevin is a bit sudden but, even worse, it may be putting her on the path of no return with Jimmy. Something will ultimately pull her back but I can’t imagine when or how it happens.

An observation: Howard is relaxing at home barefoot but wearing his tie, dress shirt and slacks. Odd. Don’t most guys want to take off their ties as soon as they can?

Thanks for the explanation. I couldn’t tell what she saw in that photo.

A LOT of us sympathize with the underdog, instead of the golf playing, rich bankers of the world. Probably more of us than they think.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

How did I forget to mention this?!!!!!!:  Once Upon a Time in Hollywood includes a callback to a cherished movie, The Great Escape.  I about lost it in the theater when I saw it due to my excitement and awe.  

How absolutely wonderful that this ep contains another callback to TGE!  Spreading the irradiated dirt by releasing it from the bag as Saul did is a direct homage to a method used by the POWs in that movie

Spoiler

to hide extracted tunnel dirt.

While watching that BCS scene tonight, I about glowed without benefit of radiation.  Kudos and thanks to G/G and Odenkirk. 

[Tighthead]

25 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I got as far as the scene where "Giselle" is meeting Mr X ("It's my professional name") in the nail salon and realized I just did not care where that storyline was going (or Mike's, for that matter) and changed channels.  It's an 8 episode season and this is where we are in episode 5? 

I knew things would get darker as Jimmy changed into Saul, but I didn't think they'd get this boring. 

I’m finding Kim’s position right now preposterous. Then when she gets called on it she is indignant. I’m just not buying it. 
 

This is one of my all time favourite shows but I’m close to jumping off. 

[scenario]

15 minutes ago, Tighthead said:

I’m finding Kim’s position right now preposterous. Then when she gets called on it she is indignant. I’m just not buying it. 
 

This is one of my all time favourite shows but I’m close to jumping off. 

Kim's attitude is totally preposterous. It's also totally human. You've probably never saw someone whose life was like a person accelerating their car toward a brick wall. Everyone including the person doing it knows that what they are doing will lead to disaster but they do it anyhow.

The person with the abusive partner who just loves them and wants to marry them, etc. How could such a smart person do something so stupid? It happens all the time. 

[scenario]

The show is a classic Greek tragedy. Jimmy and Kim are both hero's whose inherent flaws will destroy them in the end. 

Kim knows what she's doing is wrong and foolish but she just can't help herself because it is in her nature. 

[LittleIggy]

I’m actually looking forward to Kim’s total self-destruction. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. Quit working for Mesa Verde if you don’t like what they are doing.

I loved Mike fixing the window sill for la senora.

[chick binewski]

2 hours ago, scenario said:

One thing I love about this show is that Kim's behavior makes perfect sense to me, in the sense that it seems like something Kim would do. Very serious and studious on the outside, takes no prisoners when she gets pissed. And she gets angry over things she shouldn't.  

 

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Man, when Jimmy of all people is telling you that you've taken things far enough and it's time to let it go, that should probably be your giant flashing stop sign.  As it was, I was all but watching Kim's scene with Rich at the end through my fingers.  

I was cringing during her scene with Rich. That guy is smart, Kim. And you can't play him like you do with Kevin. But I'm pretty sure Jimmy was egging Kim on to get her continue with the plan. They sounded a bit like Jesse & Jane in that scene - two junkies.

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

An observation: Howard is relaxing at home barefoot but wearing his tie, dress shirt and slacks. Odd. Don’t most guys want to take off their ties as soon as they can?

I think that was Howard's office with the Barcelona chairs, shoes off to show his namaste-ing in action.

I just loved this episode. Gus understanding what will work on Mike, just like he did with Jesse. As far as Acker, I think I have a somewhat sympathetic view. Whatever the law, Kevin sees the land as his and will bluster through without any acknowledgement that if he was a couple of years older with limited means he might get a stick up his butt if he got evicted. I can understand why that arrogance really bothers Kim. 

I laughed way too hard at "Yes. I'm in a tunnel."

Edited March 17, 2020 by chick binewski

[Dev F]

I did think it was funny that with Mike out of the picture, Saul ended up hiring the anti-Mike: Sobchak, the gun-happy idiot whom Mike humiliated out of the job with Pryce back in season 1. I wonder if Sobchak's impulsiveness is going to play a part in the endgame of this storyline -- as in, Saul will hire him to lean on Mesa Verde some more and he'll accidentally get Kevin killed.

The other possibility I wondered about is whether Sobchak was a last-minute replacement for Kuby, who was apparently supposed to appear in season 5 until Bill Burr ended up not being available for personal reasons.

[TVFan17]

I can't believe this was already the halfway point of the season -- a season we waited a long time to get!  There are still 5 episodes left, and I would imagine that things will gradually start to ramp up and get more intense, leading to the crucial events of Season 6 (which may be delayed in filming).

This was not my favorite episode.  It wasn't bad, but just kind of blah until the end.  As I have said many times before, the legal/lawsuit/courtroom stuff is always my least favorite of the story lines on this show, so when there is a lot of focus on that side of the show, I zone out.  (I've never liked legal dramas either.)  I just don't care that much about the clients Kim is dealing with, or the cases she tackles, or the law firms she works for, etc.  I prefer seeing Kim with Saul, away from those settings. 

Although I loved their scene together at the end of the episode, I was also disappointed in finding out that it was Gus who was behind Mike being saved, because that was too obvious.  I love that Mike and Gus are on the show, and I liked the memorial to Max, but I wanted the person who saved Mike to be a surprise revelation.

Still, though... to me, it's interesting to see how Gus and Mike began working together, knowing how they eventually end up.   The dynamic between them is fascinating.  Gus, as always, does his homework on anyone who works with him or who might possibly work for him, so he knows every detail of Mike's downward spiral.  In a very strange, abstract way, it vaguely seems like Gus is partially pulling Mike in to 'help' Mike -- in his own mind, anyway.  I mean, yes, of course, Gus needs Mike's help in his war against the Salamancas, and that comes before anything else.  And yet, somewhere deep down, I get the impression that he thinks that coercing Mike to be his soldier will help Mike and put him in a better position than the one he is in now.

And although Mike scoffs and resents Gus for not leaving him alone, we later see in Breaking Bad that Mike has developed a certain level of respect for Gus, and Gus has a level of respect for Mike.  So, however their alliance was formed, it seemed to result in Gus trusting Mike, and Mike respecting Gus later on down the line.

I would like to see more scenes with Mike and Saul together.  I think that Mike's calm annoyance and exasperation is a nice juxtaposition to Saul's zany energy, and they are fun (for me) to watch together.

It was surprising to see "Mr. X" (or whatever the character's original name was on this show a few years ago) show up again.  I was not expecting Steven Ogg to return.  I think I was so used to seeing him on The Walking Dead for a while that I almost forgot he appeared on Better Call Saul in the past.

[Bannon]

Watching Kim destroy herself  is hard to watch, and I think it is supposed to be hard to watch. We do need greater insight as to why Kim is engaged on this path, however. 

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I’m actually looking forward to Kim’s total self-destruction. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. Quit working for Mesa Verde if you don’t like what they are doing.

I loved Mike fixing the window sill for la senora.

But she couldn’t help bring them down in this way if she simply quit working for them.

1 hour ago, chick binewski said:

 

I was cringing during her scene with Rich. That guy is smart, Kim. And you can't play him like you do with Kevin. But I'm pretty sure Jimmy was egging Kim on to get her continue with the plan. They sounded a bit like Jesse & Jane in that scene - two junkies.

I think that was Howard's office with the Barcelona chairs, shoes off to show his namaste-ing in action.

I just loved this episode. Gus understanding what will work on Mike, just like he did with Jesse. As far as Acker, I think I have a somewhat sympathetic view. Whatever the law, Kevin sees the land as his and will bluster through without any acknowledgement that if he was a couple of years older with limited means he might get a stick up his butt if he got evicted. I can understand why that arrogance really bothers Kim. 

I laughed way too hard at "Yes. I'm in a tunnel."

I loved what Rich was trying to do in helping Kim. He got her and was ok with it. She just couldn’t let him do it.

[thuganomics85]

Glad that Sobchak/Steven Ogg seems to have recovered from that throat punch Mike gave him way back in season one!  Fun little appearance, although I do wonder if Kuby/Bill Burr had been another possibility for that part as well, because I could have seen it being written for him as well (at least Bill found time for some adventures in a galaxy far, far away with The Mandalorian!)

Fun watching Jimmy and Kim put their heads together and find ways to hold off Acker's eviction, but, yeah, this clearly seems to be a potential set-up for Kim spiraling out of control.  The risk far outweigh the rewards, and now that Rich at the very least seems to have an idea what is going on, I suspect things will get ugly for Kim.  I do wonder is it just the thrill of the fight that is driving her, because there is nothing about Acker (well, besides being Barry Corbin!) that really seems like it would be worth all of this potential headache and possible consequences.  Not even sure if it is a real vendetta against Kevin, because as far as smug, rich guys go, he's pretty tame compared to others.  But Kim is playing a dangerous game here, and I wonder if this might be what finally does her in (and maybe even have Jimmy officially embrace the Saul moniker for good.)

So, Mike really was saved by Gus somehow, and was taken to this compound that Gus owns, and seems like is a tribute to the dearly departed Max.  For Mike's sake, I'm glad he got a few days to rest and even seem to enjoy helping around the house, but, of course, he is totally going to find himself going back in the darkness and helping Gus in this upcoming war.

Jimmy and Mike have their first exchange of the season!  Even with it was by phone.

No Nacho again...

Love the scene of Jimmy and Kim "acting out" the meeting between Kim and Kevin.

[Blakeston]

6 hours ago, scenario said:

Kim's attitude is totally preposterous. It's also totally human. You've probably never saw someone whose life was like a person accelerating their car toward a brick wall. Everyone including the person doing it knows that what they are doing will lead to disaster but they do it anyhow.

The person with the abusive partner who just loves them and wants to marry them, etc. How could such a smart person do something so stupid? It happens all the time. 

When that kind of mindset is portrayed in a fictional character, I think the writers should give the audience some insight as to what's leading the character to think and act that way.

In Kim's case, we've always known she takes risks, but she's never done anything half as risky as this. And she's taking this huge risk on behalf of a repulsive person (Acker) who she knows is in the wrong. And she's never shown animosity toward Kevin in the past.

For her recklessness to suddenly escalate like this, it would be nice to know what's behind it. The only clues we've been given are that Acker seemingly got under her skin by saying that she works for "the man," and that speech she gave about her childhood. Neither are good enough explanations, IMO. I'm hoping there's something better coming.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, scenario said:

Stretching things out is in the DNA of Breaking Bad/BCS. If you are looking for fast pace show, BCS isn't it. If you don't find watching scumbags interesting, once again Breaking Bad/BCS is probably not for you. There are only a handful of characters in both shows that aren't scumbags in one way or another. Many are downright evil. Others are good people but really obnoxious. Or they are minor characters who only get 5 minutes of screen time a few times a season. 

The woman in this episode seems nice but I bet if they ever dug into her story line, she'd be be either evil or obnoxious somehow. Innocent bystanders can be nice. Very few others can be. 

One thing I love about this show is that Kim's behavior makes perfect sense to me, in the sense that it seems like something Kim would do. Very serious and studious on the outside, takes no prisoners when she gets pissed. And she gets angry over things she shouldn't.  

BB never stretched things out the was BCS is doing.

I enjoyed the slow burn of BCS, but at this point, for me, the fire has pretty much gone out.   Barely anything has happened for all season, and we have learned very little about the characters.

On BB and previously on BCS, as in shows like The Sopranos, they gave us reasons to root for certain scumbags and against others.  But, at this point, I don't care much what happens to any BCS character.  

Kim can get disbarred and go to prison or wake up and appreciate her great life and start doing her job.  I don't care.  The endless back and forth with her has become tedious.

Saul is totally unlikable.

Acker is unlikable.  But, I don't really care if MV Kevin gets his way or not.

Mike has become a grumpy, depressed, boring old man.  They wouldn't even let him complete his improvised cell phone charger.

All of BCS has added nothing to Fring's character.  There was so much mystery about him on BB, and BCS has given us almost no answers.

Nacho and his Dad are about the only ones I care at all about, and I don't even care that much.

 

 

 

[Bryce Lynch]

6 hours ago, chick binewski said:

 

I was cringing during her scene with Rich. That guy is smart, Kim. And you can't play him like you do with Kevin. But I'm pretty sure Jimmy was egging Kim on to get her continue with the plan. They sounded a bit like Jesse & Jane in that scene - two junkies.

I think that was Howard's office with the Barcelona chairs, shoes off to show his namaste-ing in action.

I just loved this episode. Gus understanding what will work on Mike, just like he did with Jesse. As far as Acker, I think I have a somewhat sympathetic view. Whatever the law, Kevin sees the land as his and will bluster through without any acknowledgement that if he was a couple of years older with limited means he might get a stick up his butt if he got evicted. I can understand why that arrogance really bothers Kim. 

I laughed way too hard at "Yes. I'm in a tunnel."

But, it IS MV's land.  They purchased it from the rightful owner.  How would you feel if some jerk was squatting on your land and committing all sorts of fraud to stay on it?

[EtheltoTillie]

I loved this episode. Don’t mind that it was slow. Loved that smile on Kim’s face when she spotted whatever she spotted in that photo. We still don’t know what it is. I’m not sure it is just copyright infringement. 

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Man, when Jimmy of all people is telling you that you've taken things far enough and it's time to let it go, that should probably be your giant flashing stop sign.  As it was, I was all but watching Kim's scene with Rich at the end through my fingers.  Her descent is painful to watch and has taken on an almost horror movie quality where you're screaming at her to get out, don't go back in the house, when you damn well know she's going to go back for more.

Or....this revealed how Kim has egged Jimmy on for a long time

9 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Rhea's wild eyes as she rose from the bed asking, "Or?" were chilling to behold.  Kim is gone.  The later scene with Rich who did a bit of fashioning of his own was tremendously difficult to see, yet every last second of it was organic/earned, imo.  Metaphorically, I needed a shower. 

But maybe we are just seeing more of how Jimmy and Kim egging each other on is the basis of their relationship.
Maybe Jimmy knows Kim will not walk away from it, especially when he tells her to. 
And maybe Kim knows that Jimmy knows that she will not let him walk away from a chance to play Giselle  

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

For her recklessness to suddenly escalate like this, it would be nice to know what's behind it. The only clues we've been given are that Acker seemingly got under her skin by saying that she works for "the man," and that speech she gave about her childhood. Neither are good enough explanations, IMO. I'm hoping there's something better coming.

I agree. While I do not need to be spoon-fed explanations, I am having trouble with Kim's deep dive into behavior that could potentially cause disbarment (or worse). And yes, why for Acker? Because of her childhood memories? We know that she values her pro bono work but why this case? She has been conflicted for awhile about her work for Mesa Verde but this turn against Kevin seems abrupt. I, too, would like to understand more.

8 hours ago, scenario said:

Kim's attitude is totally preposterous. It's also totally human. You've probably never saw someone whose life was like a person accelerating their car toward a brick wall. 

Perhaps some of us haven't seen someone behave like that and perhaps we have. Regardless, it is irrelevant to characterization. I love Kim but I, too, am having trouble with her behavior this season. I don't think that viewers' reactions should be dismissed so easily.

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

BB never stretched things out the was BCS is doing.

I enjoyed the slow burn of BCS, but at this point, for me, the fire has pretty much gone out.   Barely anything has happened for all season, and we have learned very little about the characters.

I agree. Some of the story lines feel that they are being drawn out unnecessarily. I'm still enjoying the show but not as much as in the past. I'm getting impatient; I want the story to arrive at its conclusion with Cinnabon Gene. Is that unfair to the storytelling process? Probably but I think that much of that is inevitable when you know what is coming. 

10 hours ago, scenario said:

Stretching things out is in the DNA of Breaking Bad/BCS. If you are looking for fast pace show, BCS isn't it. If you don't find watching scumbags interesting, once again Breaking Bad/BCS is probably not for you.

IMO, everyone's opinion is valid. If some viewers - like myself - feel that some of the story lines are being stretched out unnecessarily, it should not be dismissed. We can disagree but it doesn't mean that the opinion is wrong, should not be expressed or that the show isn't for a particular viewer.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Ellaria Sand

[Bannon]

21 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I agree. While I do not need to be spoon-fed explanations, I am having trouble with Kim's deep dive into behavior that could potentially cause disbarment (or worse). And yes, why for Acker? Because of her childhood memories? We know that she values her pro bono work but why this case? She has been conflicted for awhile about her work for Mesa Verde but this turn against Kevin seems abrupt. I, too, would like to understand more.

Perhaps some of us haven't seen someone behave like that and perhaps we have. Regardless, it is irrelevant to characterization. I love Kim but I, too, am having trouble with her behavior this season. I don't think that viewers' reactions should be dismissed so easily.

I agree. Some of the story lines feel that they are being drawn out unnecessarily. I'm still enjoying the show but not as much as in the past. I'm getting impatient; I want the story to arrive at its conclusion with Cinnabon Gene. Is that unfair to the storytelling process? Probably but I think that much of that is inevitable when you know what is coming. 

IMO, everyone's opinion is valid. If some viewers - like myself - feel that some of the story lines are being stretched out unnecessarily, it should not be dismissed. We can disagree but it doesn't mean that the opinion is wrong, should not be expressed or that the show isn't for a particular viewer.

I cannot believe that the writers are only going to give us what we have been given, with regard to Kim's motivations.Jimmy, Chuck, and Mike have all been provided very in depth backstories, which consumed a lot of screen time, to explain their behavior. I don't think we are only going to get Kim's little speech to the jacksass Ackers, and I believe Ackers has been intentionally written unsympathetically, so as to avoid an easy fighting for the underdog explanation. We'll see.

[Bannon]

With regard to the story as a whole, the challenge of it always was to have a pretty unsympathetic character, Saul Goodman, as the central character, instead of a peripheral character providing comic relief, as in BB. Throw in that Mike Ehrmantraut is also frequently a nasty piece of work, and you are trying to do something that only really ambitious writing attempts, which is why the decision to, eventually, not make Kim obviously sympathetic is so interesting  to me. I'm really curious about how they flesh this out, but I certainly understand why some may be frustrated by it.

[PeterPirate]

I sometimes type ideas down, then delete them because I think they are far-fetched.  "Kevin and Paige will believe Acker sought out Jimmy because he is Kim's boyfriend" was one of those ideas.  I suppose some suspension of disbelief is required in order to accept a storyline that has Kim spiraling out of control. 

Kim's behavior is not that much of a mystery to me.  She's enamored by the feeling of having power over people.  And power can corrupt the best people.  That's why she was willing to concoct a scheme to recuse herself from Mesa Verde, but couldn't do so when Rich obliquely instructed her to do so.    

When Rich tried to get Kim to recuse herself from Mesa Verde, her response reminded me of the way Walt talked to Skyler during season 2 of BB when she wanted an explanation for his behavior.   

I laughed out loud when I saw the spray-painted image of Jesus.  And when Acker was phoning in his "sighting", he said "thank you" with an Atlanta twang.  

I didn't recognize Stephen Ogg through all that facial hair until I read these comments.  As with Barry Corbin, I don't think they cast him for a single appearance, and I expect he will create havoc sometime down the road.  They would have used the Vamanos Pest guy otherwise. 

The basic idea of Kim using a copyright infringement to bring down Mesa Verde makes some sense to me, in general.  I just don't know if a silhouette of a man on a horse can be copyrighted.  Legally, I think all Mesa Verde would need to do is say their logo was an image of a different person.   Still, Kim had a very valid point in the last episode that pushing Acker out of his house could harm the bank's reputation and have it become seen as a "big bad bank" that trampled on little guys like Acker and a poor artist.  During the episode I was expecting to the film crew to show up so Jimmy could do another one of his "news" features.  

I thought the first three episodes were slow.  The elements have been coming together the last two.  This is by far my favorite season.  YMMV.  

Edited March 17, 2020 by PeterPirate

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, Bannon said:

With regard to the story as a whole, the challenge of it always was to have a pretty unsympathetic character, Saul Goodman, as the central character, instead of a peripheral character providing comic relief, as in BB. Throw in that Mike Ehrmantraut is also frequently a nasty piece of work, and you are trying to do something that only really ambitious writing attempts, which is why the decision to, eventually, not make Kim obviously sympathetic is so interesting  to me. I'm really curious about how they flesh this out, but I certainly understand why some may be frustrated by it.

Walter White was a drug kingpin and mass murderer, but they still had  me rooting for him.

Jesse Pinkman was a drug dealer, murderer, drug addict and a guy, who will making $500K peremonth, tried to make a few extra bucks by stealing meth from his boss, and selling it to addicts...a 12 Step meetings.   I still cared about him.

Fring was a villain, but I was thrilled when he took out Eladio and the cartel, and was a little sad when Walt killed him.

On other shows, like "The Wire" and especially "The Sopranos", viewers were made to care deeply about a lot of the murderers and gangsters.   

I think, over the past couple of seasons of BCS, G&G have neglected to give the viewers whatever it is that makes us care about bad people and what happens to them.  

[EtheltoTillie]

I appreciated the callback to the original xerox address number reversal, which is how Kim got Mesa Verde. That is, the sheriff’s eviction papers had numbers 1130 instead of 1240.  Or vice versa, whatever it was. 

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

An observation: Howard is relaxing at home barefoot but wearing his tie, dress shirt and slacks. Odd. Don’t most guys want to take offs soon as they can?

Symbolism! Perhaps Howard's Namaste is just a cover-up for how uptight he really still is.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

When that kind of mindset is portrayed in a fictional character, I think the writers should give the audience some insight as to what's leading the character to think and act that way..

7 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I cannot believe that the writers are only going to give us what we have been given, with regard to Kim's motivations.

Maybe I should be indignant, as a woman, that Kim's backstory consists of only the Soliloquy of the Blue Toes we heard her give Acker a couple of episodes ago --which I didn't even believe was real because it came out of the Blue.
But I'll take it and accept that Kim's actions are based upon it.

13 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Kim's behavior is not that much of a mystery to me.  She's enamored by the feeling of having power over people.  And power can corrupt the best people.  That's why she was willing to concoct a scheme to recuse herself from Mesa Verde, but couldn't do so when Rich obliquely instructed her to do so.    

When Rich tried to get Kim to recuse herself from Mesa Verde, her response reminded me of the way Walt talked to Skyler during season 2 of BB when she wanted an explanation for his behavior.

This^ all seems quite possible and is likely correct, but, FWIW, my take was a little more convoluted: that Kim was playing Richard.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, chick binewski said:

I laughed way too hard at "Yes. I'm in a tunnel."

Heh. Yeah. And symbolism too.

[Bryce Lynch]

I wonder how many guns Mr. X was carrying while spying on Kevin and meeting with Saul (or was it Viktor) and Giselle?

If Mike knew Saul was going to hire Mr. X, he probably would have hitchhiked back to New Mexico to take the job, armed only with a pimento cheese sandwich.    

[Ohwell]

11 hours ago, scenario said:

Stretching things out is in the DNA of Breaking Bad/BCS. If you are looking for fast pace show, BCS isn't it. If you don't find watching scumbags interesting, once again Breaking Bad/BCS is probably not for you. There are only a handful of characters in both shows that aren't scumbags in one way or another. Many are downright evil. Others are good people but really obnoxious. Or they are minor characters who only get 5 minutes of screen time a few times a season. 

I don't need a tutorial on scumbag characters on BB and BCS because I'm quite familiar with them.  I didn't say that I didn't find watching scumbags interesting, I'm just saying that Kim is as much of a scumbag as Jimmy now.  That's all.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

But maybe we are just seeing more of how Jimmy and Kim egging each other on is the basis of their relationship.
Maybe Jimmy knows Kim will not walk away from it, especially when he tells her to. 
And maybe Kim knows that Jimmy knows that she will not let him walk away from a chance to play Giselle  

I think you're on to their true dynamic.  She wasn't having Jimmy's flash of rationality when he was saying this is it, you've done all you can, and he immediately switched to being back in.  They both love the thrill, the risk. That seems to be when she gets the most turned on, too, which we haven't seen in previous seasons at all.  They used to seem very platonic.

[sistermagpie]

9 hours ago, chick binewski said:

 

 just loved this episode. Gus understanding what will work on Mike, just like he did with Jesse. As far as Acker, I think I have a somewhat sympathetic view. Whatever the law, Kevin sees the land as his and will bluster through without any acknowledgement that if he was a couple of years older with limited means he might get a stick up his butt if he got evicted. I can understand why that arrogance really bothers Kim. 

Kim's now basically sticking herself between two Ackers. Two stubborn men who are willing to destroy themselves just to say they won. She came up with a good plan to give Acker the win, but didn't count on Kevin not being rational--just as Mesa Verde expected Acker himself would be rational and take the money.

Although I guess I should add Kim herself to that because she's also like Acker. She got her chance to be rational and walk away now and doubled down just as Acker and Kevin did.

[scenario]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I agree. While I do not need to be spoon-fed explanations, I am having trouble with Kim's deep dive into behavior that could potentially cause disbarment (or worse). And yes, why for Acker? Because of her childhood memories? We know that she values her pro bono work but why this case? She has been conflicted for awhile about her work for Mesa Verde but this turn against Kevin seems abrupt. I, too, would like to understand more.

Perhaps some of us haven't seen someone behave like that and perhaps we have. Regardless, it is irrelevant to characterization. I love Kim but I, too, am having trouble with her behavior this season. I don't think that viewers' reactions should be dismissed so easily.

I agree. Some of the story lines feel that they are being drawn out unnecessarily. I'm still enjoying the show but not as much as in the past. I'm getting impatient; I want the story to arrive at its conclusion with Cinnabon Gene. Is that unfair to the storytelling process? Probably but I think that much of that is inevitable when you know what is coming. 

IMO, everyone's opinion is valid. If some viewers - like myself - feel that some of the story lines are being stretched out unnecessarily, it should not be dismissed. We can disagree but it doesn't mean that the opinion is wrong, should not be expressed or that the show isn't for a particular viewer.

Everyone's opinion is valid, up to a point. The show is in its fifth year. It has always stretched things out. I understand some people lose patience with this sort of thing but they shouldn't be surprised that the show continues to do what it always has done. 

To me, its like acting surprised and annoyed that a hospital show has scenes in an operating room or a show about fire fighters has a fire in it. 

Some people like the law scenes with Saul and Kim better. Some like the cartel scenes better. That's fine. But threatening to stop watching because you like one type of scene and are really bored with the other is kind of foolish. That's what the show is. 

This people on this site are quite good. I've just seen too many trolls on other sites who insist on hate watching shows and then complaining about them. Why aren't there more car chases in a hospital show kind of complaints are just too foolish. I've been on Star Trek sites and there are people complaining about the show being set on a star ship. 

[Ohwell]

I find it hard to believe that Howard doesn't suspect it was Jimmy who tossed those bowling balls.   I hope he does suspect him and is setting him up for a nice.....ummm.......surprise.  Jimmy deserves it.  

[scenario]

I agree that there should be more backstory about Kim. My head cannon is that she has a similar back story to Jimmy and that's why she's attracted to him. Two peas in a pod. 

Something like her families business was destroyed by a big business and big business lawyers. Her father/mother died young. She went off the rails as a teenager and was on a path to prison but a lawyer helped her get back on track. She hates big companies and lawyers for big companies. She loves small lawyers who fight for the little guys.

She was working for the big law firm trying to make a difference. She didn't have any moral problems when it was her doing government paperwork for the bank. She didn't have any problems when the bank was offering people money for their 30 year old double wide's that they were happy to take. 

She was disappointed with pro bono work because she wasn't really helping anyone. She's getting people out of long prison terms who aren't going to change and who are going to go right back in a few months after they get out. 

She's been looking to save a good small guy from the big bad corporation for years. The work she's been getting is work for the big bad corporation or work for obviously guilty people who have no intention of changing. Finally she's got a case that's sort of/kind of what she's looking for and won't let go even though it really isn't the type case she's looking for.  

[PeterPirate]

I have no doubt Howard knows it was Jimmy who threw the bowling balls.  I think the reason for his brief appearance in this episode was to show he was willing to overlook it and pretend it never happened.  Whether his motives are honorable or not is anyone's guess.  

 

24 minutes ago, scenario said:

This people on this site are quite good. I've just seen too many trolls on other sites who insist on hate watching shows and then complaining about them. Why aren't there more car chases in a hospital show kind of complaints are just too foolish. I've been on Star Trek sites and there are people complaining about the show being set on a star ship. 

I'm going to jump in and say that I agree, in general, that people who post overly negative comments, especially repetitive ones, bring down the level of discussion.  That happens a lot for another show I follow.  

That said, I will add that the best Star Trek show took place on a space station, not a starship.  

[nodorothyparker]

Guys, people can decide for themselves to watch or not watch and for whatever reasons they wish.  To be surprised or not surprised, or to feel however they do about the show.  Please be mindful in your debating to be sure you're debating the show, not each other's motivations.  Thanks.

[ShadowFacts]

I'm wondering about Kim's showdown in the public part of the firm with Rich.  It looked like she was working off emotion, didn't plan it, but it was out of character and so unprofessional so I have to wonder. I don't know what Rich meant by "have it your way" if that is what he said.  I think he can't keep her on the case or maybe even at Schweikart so I'll be interested in his next move. 

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

I sometimes type ideas down, then delete them because I think they are far-fetched.  "Kevin and Paige will believe Acker sought out Jimmy because he is Kim's boyfriend" was one of those ideas.  I suppose some suspension of disbelief is required in order to accept a storyline that has Kim spiraling out of control. 

If I were in Kevin's shoes, that's what I would assume.

Kevin trusts Kim, and he knows that Kim read Acker the riot act. He knows that Kim didn't even want to be bothered with this case for a long time. And he knows that Acker will use any dirty tactic he can.

In his situation, I would probably guess that Acker sought out Jimmy because he wanted to hold things up, and/or remove Kim from the case. I don't think it would even occur to me that Kim was secretly on Acker's side.

Just now, ShadowFacts said:

I'm wondering about Kim's showdown in the public part of the firm with Rich.  It looked like she was working off emotion, didn't plan it, but it was out of character and so unprofessional so I have to wonder. I don't know what Rich meant by "have it your way" if that is what he said.  I think he can't keep her on the case or maybe even at Schweikart so I'll be interested in his next move. 

Yeah, Schweikart clearly suspects that Kim is working against her client. I can't buy that he would allow her to continue doing that. It's not just her reputation that's at stake, it's his firm's.

[Ed-]

20 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I find it hard to believe that Howard doesn't suspect it was Jimmy who tossed those bowling balls.   I hope he does suspect him and is setting him up for a nice.....ummm.......surprise.  Jimmy deserves it.  

I can almost picture Howard sneaking into the parking lot over at Jimmy's, adjusting his suit, and "returning" the bowling balls. Saul should be getting the white Cadillac soon anyway. :)

For some reason when Howard said "Oh, and Jimmy?" on the phone, and Jimmy hung up, I thought it could have realistically followed by something positive like "-- by the way, the Sandpiper payment came through, congratulations, you deserved it" (I vaguely remember Jimmy having a 20% stake in that, but I could be wrong). It also seems like Howard is ready to make Jimmy an equal partner at HHM, despite Jimmy's every flaw.

Jimmy's and now also Kim's egos make them sabotage themselves; they seem to ignore every sane opportunity handed to them, repeatedly. Saul would rather take $8k today, break every law in the book and still not be free (due to Lalo & co), while Kim would sacrifice her possibly the best job in her life for the right cause which she now knows does not even exist. It seems to me that money is not their 1st or even the 2nd priority. If it was, they both had to literally do nothing but say yes. I now feel like I am channeling Chuck.

[ShadowFacts]

24 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Yeah, Schweikart clearly suspects that Kim is working against her client. I can't buy that he would allow her to continue doing that. It's not just her reputation that's at stake, it's his firm's.

He knows.  There may not ever be ethics panel level of proof of it, but to know you have a member of your firm actively working against a client, they have to go.  The mere appearance or suspicion of it would be so damaging.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

I agree that there should be more backstory about Kim. My head cannon is that she has a similar back story to Jimmy and that's why she's attracted to him. Two peas in a pod. 

Something like her families business was destroyed by a big business and big business lawyers.

That would support my own head cannon for Vince Gilligan's main message of this episode being that Gus and Mike and Jimmy and Kim all had more potential in their pinkie fingers than did TPTB who humiliated them and kept them down and broke them until they all "broke bad."
...as did Walter and Skylar and many others.
I suppose many of us watching these 2 series relate to these characters up to the point of breaking bad on the level of the show.

Edited March 17, 2020 by shapeshifter
name drop