S21.E11: She Paints For Vengeance

[dttruman]

This description is from Googling "SVU season 21,  Must Be Held Accountable"

After a sexual assault investigation is stalled for months, a woman puts her accusations against a popular athlete on a billboard.

On the other hand the info button on my cable remote description's is "An actress accuses a high-powered media mogul of attempted rape".

This cast information comes from Fandom

Main cast

Mariska Hargitay as Captain Olivia Benson

Kelli Giddish as Detective Amanda Rollins

Ice-T as Sergeant Odafin Tutuola

Peter Scanavino as A.D.A. Dominick Carisi, Jr.

Jamie Gray Hyder as Detective Katriona Tamin

Guest cast

Veracity Butcher as Isadora "Izzy" Correa

Assibey Blake as Markeevious Buddy

Lori Laing as Chiara Kiel

Megan Elyse Fulmer as Ariana Lopez

James Andrew O'Connor as Jared Desanto

Damali Ross as Cop

Julyah Rose as Pedestrian

I don't know why there are two different descriptions. But they both sound like familiar ones from past episodes.

[illdoc]

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

On the other hand the info button on my cable remote description's is "An actress accuses a high-powered media mogul of attempted rape"

Having read this description of the episode (actually, a longer version, on the tvguide listing, I think), I believe it's the description of the season premiere (includes phrases as "shake up in the squad room"). The other description ("billboard") does not sound familiar (athlete accused of rape, yes, billboard, no), so is probably the correct one.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah the correct description of the episode is the one about the woman putting her allegations on a billboard. The other description is the description of the season premiere. 

Apparently we get to see Carisi prosecuting in court in this one, and I’m excited to finally see a trial and what Carisi’s courtroom style is like. I just hope we don’t have Benson trying to boss Carisi around and tell him what to do, the way she did some with Barba and Stone, I want to see Carisi make decisions on his own and not follow the lead of St Olivia.

Also we have another extremely cheesy, weird episode title, and I wish the writers would put more effort into coming up with better scripts instead of coming up with “clever” 21 letter episode titles. 

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, illdoc said:

Having read this description of the episode (actually, a longer version, on the tvguide listing, I think), I believe it's the description of the season premiere (includes phrases as "shake up in the squad room")

I just checked it again on my cable remote and I noticed that it's listed as season 21, episode 19. So I guess the whole description is messed up.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Apparently we get to see Carisi prosecuting in court in this one, and I’m excited to finally see a trial and what Carisi’s courtroom style is like. I just hope we don’t have Benson trying to boss Carisi around and tell him what to do, the way she did some with Barba and Stone, I want to see Carisi make decisions on his own and not follow the lead of St Olivia.

I sure hope they researched this well enough. Otherwise, I think even I will be able to point out the flaws. I usually rely on one of our sharp commenters to points out what's realistic about the court proceedings and what is bogus.

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, illdoc said:

The other description ("billboard") does not sound familiar (athlete accused of rape, yes, billboard, no), so is probably the correct one.

I think I got that mixed up with an episode or two where the victim with a few of her supporters put up banners or something like that, denouncing the person as a rapist.

[ShortyMac]

Tonya Glanz, playing Monica, previously played Samantha Millerton in 12x07 - "Trophy."

Edited January 17, 2020 by ShortyMac

[Gigi43]

Did Mariska write that fanfiction ending herself or did they pick some one off Tmblr? 

 

I can't even for more thoughts about the ep. The ending was bad. But the preview and if they taint Tucker already has me in a rage blackout. 

[Pearson80]

I hated this case and I hate Olivia so much and I am tired of her sermons and her bullying tactics to get her way. Carisi needs to tell Olivia to back off.  This case should be overturned on appeal.

[dttruman]

4 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

Did Mariska write that fanfiction ending herself or did they pick some one off Tmblr? 

 

I can't even for more thoughts about the ep. The ending was bad. But the preview and if they taint Tucker already has me in a rage blackout. 

Well, she did direct this episode. So you know she had to have her St Olivia persona make an appearance.

Yep, it looks like they got the next reoccurring character that will be dumped on.

[dttruman]

Did anyone else find this a little too predictable, especially in the court room segment of the show? Other than that, I thought it was a good show. Benson giving Carisi a pep-talk was just too cheesy for me. I wonder why the police officer wasn't called to the stand. I am also surprised that the defense attorney, who was portrayed as being very sharp, let her client testified. She at least should have warned him of not flying off the handle or worked with him on his testimony.

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by dttruman
spelling

[Pearson80]

5 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Did anyone else find this a little too predictable, especially in the court room segment of the show? Other than that, I thought it was a good show. Benson giving Carisi a pep-talk was just too cheesy for me. I wonder why the police officer wasn't called to the stand. I am also surprised that the defense attorney, who was portrayed as being very sharp, let her client testified. She at least should have warned him of not fling off the handle or worked with him on his testimony.

 

I hated how the victim was implying that not testifying meant he was guilty. In our country, we have the right to remain silent and the government has the burden of proving it's case, not the defendant.  That really pissed me off. I also despised her attorney who was just like Benson, smug acerbic self-righteous and abrasive..

Edited January 17, 2020 by Pearson80

[Xeliou66]

That episode was dull and predictable - I wish they could’ve come up with something better for Carisi’s first trial, and they still don’t know how to write courtroom scenes very well.

Yet another he said/she said rape case involving the rich and famous, they’ve done these stories to death and there was nothing new or original about this. 

Of course they relied on the defendant testifying in order to convict him, and it made no sense why Barth would let her client testify, even if he wanted to, she should’ve talked him out of it. In fact, she should’ve just asked for a dismissal after the prosecution rested because they didn’t have enough evidence. 

The whole courtroom stuff just wasn’t that well written, and the investigation was boring and predictable, the whole thing was just dull and predictable. 

I wondered why the cop who took the report and threw it away didn’t testify, or maybe he testified off screen. Anyway I hope he lost his job. 

I didn’t like the victim’s lawyer/advocate, she was smug and arrogant. 

Carisi needs to be able to do his job without a pep talk from St Olivia. And after it being mostly absent for a while, they dialed the Benson worship back up tonight. 

And what the fuck was that narmy, ridiculous ending with the SVU team on the painting? That was one of the most laughable, stupidest, most ridiculous things I’ve ever seen on SVU, it was straight out of a fanfic. And the opening was cheesy as well. 

And why did the once again shoehorn in a Noah scene at the beginning? I’m really sick of the brat being forced into episodes. 

Fin and Kat had almost nothing to do tonight. 

Overall I didn’t care for this episode, it was bland, stale, dull and predictable, and while it was nice to see a trial again the trial scenes weren’t that well done, and then there was the cheesy ending and the St Olivia focus and worship was back.

And next episode they are apparently throwing Tucker under the bus, I know they like to trash characters on SVU (I don’t know why) but I will be pissed if they trash Tucker. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Xeliou66

[preeya]

9 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

That episode was dull and predictable - I wish they could’ve come up with something better for Carisi’s first trial, and they still don’t know how to write courtroom scenes very well.

Yet another he said/she said rape case involving the rich and famous, they’ve done these stories to death and there was nothing new or original about this. 

Of course they relied on the defendant testifying in order to convict him, and it made no sense why Barth would let her client testify, even if he wanted to, she should’ve talked him out of it. In fact, she should’ve just asked for a dismissal after the prosecution rested because they didn’t have enough evidence. 

The whole courtroom stuff just wasn’t that well written, and the investigation was boring and predictable, the whole thing was just dull and predictable. 

I wondered why the cop who took the report and threw it away didn’t testify, or maybe he testified off screen. Anyway I hope he lost his job. 

I didn’t like the victim’s lawyer/advocate, she was smug and arrogant. 

Carisi needs to be able to do his job without a pep talk from St Olivia. And after it being mostly absent for a while, they dialed the Benson worship back up tonight. 

And what the fuck was that narmy, ridiculous ending with the SVU team on the painting? That was one of the most laughable, stupidest, most ridiculous things I’ve ever seen on SVU, it was straight out of a fanfic. And the opening was cheesy as well. 

And why did the once again shoehorn in a Noah scene at the beginning? I’m really sick of the brat being forced into episodes. 

Fin and Kat had almost nothing to do tonight. 

Overall I didn’t care for this episode, it was bland, stale, dull and predictable, and while it was nice to see a trial again the trial scenes weren’t that well done, and then there was the cheesy ending, the St Olivia focus and worship was back and 

And next episode they are apparently throwing Tucker under the bus, I know they like to trash characters on SVU (I don’t know why) but I will be pissed if they trash Tucker. 

In total agreement with all of this ↑.

Just wondering as an afterthought: was this case intended to mirror the Antonio Brown case(s)? Brown is in deep doodoo with the NFL because of rape allegations and his weird behavior.

[Xeliou66]

Just now, preeya said:

In total agreement with all of this ↑.

Just wondering as an afterthought: was this case intended to mirror the Antonio Brown case(s)? Brown is in deep doodoo with the NFL because of rape allegations and his weird behavior.

Oh yes I think this was definitely ripped from the headlines of Antonio Brown’s case. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Carisi’s first trial would not be this case, even though he was selected for his job because of his SVU background. Baby ADAs in NYC handle misdemeanor arraignments in night court for a while. 

[dttruman]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I wondered why the cop who took the report and threw it away didn’t testify, or maybe he testified off screen. Anyway I hope he lost his job. 

Is it me or when they use this gimmick of most of the other police officers being indifferent or unconcerned except for the SVU, that it indirectly demeans the NYPD?

[dttruman]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And what the fuck was that narmy, ridiculous ending with the SVU team on the painting? That was one of the most laughable, stupidest, most ridiculous things I’ve ever seen on SVU, it was straight out of a fanfic.

I think it is Hargitay's way of giving themselves a "pat on the back", considering Martin was one of the writers for this episode, she is giving herself a "pat on the back" too.

[dttruman]

5 hours ago, preeya said:

Just wondering as an afterthought: was this case intended to mirror the Antonio Brown case(s)? Brown is in deep doodoo with the NFL because of rape allegations and his weird behavior.

I wonder if there was a little bit of truth to what Markeevious said on the stand about the women who associate with rich athletes and the things they will do to get some of that money?

Considering that the producers like to do major conspiracies, I wonder if they would do an episode on women who purposely get pregnant by super rich athletes to collect tons of money? It could be so sophisticated as to have the girls impregnated by "in vitro" or something like that. All they have to do is collect the semen and voilà.

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, GussieK said:

Carisi’s first trial would not be this case, even though he was selected for his job because of his SVU background. Baby ADAs in NYC handle misdemeanor arraignments in night court for a while. 

I just love how  these characters get major promotions for not doing anything or keeping their jobs even though they have committed crimes or violated protocol.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Just about everything with Carisi. Carisi and Fin at the strip club (even if it is still annoying how they keep putting Cairisi in the field to try to keep the viewers interested and cover for how small the cast is these days.) Carisi and Rollins. Carisi with the victim and the defense attorney. Just about everything with Carisi was pretty good which helped considering this was a Carisi focused episode. Until the third act that is - see below.
It's good that they seem to have consistently gotten everyone involved in the police work every week even if Benson is still too involved in the field. We could have used a lot more Fin and Kat, but a few years ago we wouldn't have seen anyone doing anything without her.

The Bad:
Another half-assed CI style teaser where music and quick cuts try to cover for a lack of production value and they don't even bother trying to pretend that there is any question of what happened. Bonus (penalty?) points for finding a way to shoehorn in Benoah.
Another he said, she said case involving the famous and powerful. Yes they are competently written these days and try to mix it up a bit. And yes if reflects reality and the headlines. However there are other headlines to rip from and if they feel free to disregard reality when it hurts the entertainment value they can certainly disregard it when it helps it.
Not enough Kat and Fin. Especially Fin. We really could have used some of his snark and cynical realism. Especially since the lack of material lead to Ice-T phoning it in.
The entire third act and the ending. The courtroom scenes were so poorly written. Another ADA who needs Benson to tell them how to do the legal aspects of their job. And the ending, oh my god the ending. Are they just trolling us now? I mean literally making Benson into a guardian angel above all of us?
More Rollins acting holier than thou to Kat about not acting without Benson's blessing? This would be fine as part of another attempt to reboot the character by presenting it as the voice of experience, but as presented it's just a WTF eyeroll moment.
They really blew a chance to use Benson well without having her acting as a detective. It would have been interesting to see her dealing with the brass, even on the phone, and/or dealing with patrol sergeant alone and maybe you know actually being a badass strong woman for a change? I mean can  you imagine Anita Van Buren just taking it like that when somebody told her dismissively to talk to their Captain? That whole part of the story was seriously underexplored. As somebody mentioned it would have been interesting to see him testifying and maybe find out at the trial he was suspended for not following protocol.
The preview for next week. Let's hope the NBC promo monkeys are lying to us once again and that they aren't adding Tucker to the list of characters who are trashed because the writers and/or Mariska can't figure out how to do a relationship.

Overall this was a mediocre episode, not really a bad one IMO as you might think just looking at the breakdown of what I liked and didn't . Perfectly competent for the most part, even if it was on the low end with the big showdown in court and the ending. The really frustrating part is that this is yet another example of an episode that could have been a solid B/B+ with just a little bit of extra effort on the part of the writers and producers. I hope the next episode is both better than this and better than the promos suggest.

Edited January 18, 2020 by wknt3

[NoReally]

Well how about that, St. Olivia finally got her wings!

[dttruman]

19 minutes ago, NoReally said:

Well how about that, St. Olivia finally got her wings!

I wonder who arranged it? Doesn't she have to perform a miracle or two, in order to be given sainthood?

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by dttruman

[preeya]

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

I wonder who arranged it? Doesn't she have to perform a miracle or two, in order to be given sainthood?

Actually, it's a miracle that SVU is still running and we're still watching and commenting.

Sainthood for OB?? Definitely not, although she's anointed herself to that lofty position.

[illdoc]

7 hours ago, wknt3 said:

The preview for next week.

Two weeks--Jan 30. Rerun next week.

[853fisher]

The recurring "we're a little short of detectives right now, as you will have noticed" is starting to wear thin.  I think the show thinks it's winking at us, but I'm eyerolling back.

On the subject of trashing longtime characters, Judge Barth's about-face is still so odd.  Did the actress want a change?  I just don't get it.  Not that this was ever a show about universe-building, but I appreciated those consistent touches and think they made a difference.

On the plus side, I enjoyed seeing Tonya Glanz as Monica.  I wish I were still seeing her on "Timeless," such as it was, but them's the breaks.

[tvfanatic13]

45 minutes ago, 853fisher said:

The recurring "we're a little short of detectives right now, as you will have noticed" is starting to wear thin.  I think the show thinks it's winking at us, but I'm eyerolling back.

On the subject of trashing longtime characters, Judge Barth's about-face is still so odd.  Did the actress want a change?  I just don't get it.  Not that this was ever a show about universe-building, but I appreciated those consistent touches and think they made a difference.

On the plus side, I enjoyed seeing Tonya Glanz as Monica.  I wish I were still seeing her on "Timeless," such as it was, but them's the breaks.

Thank you! I couldn’t place where I knew her from. Oh how I miss Timeless. 

[Kel Varnsen]

20 hours ago, dttruman said:

I wonder why the police officer wasn't called to the stand

Carisi made a comment during the trial about how the officer had previously testified that he threw away the report.

[dttruman]

37 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

21 hours ago, dttruman said:

I wonder why the police officer wasn't called to the stand

Carisi made a comment during the trial about how the officer had previously testified that he threw away the report.

I should have clarified that better. Why didn't they show him on the stand testifying? That is a Big Monkey Wrench right there! It makes her totally non-creditable or him look totally incompetent and apathetic. I wonder how he answered that on the stand., because I think this totally demeans the NYPD.

[tennisgurl]

Saint Olivia has finally ascended to the heavens! That was seriously embarrassing, it honestly looked like something I would have said as a joke making fun of Mariska and her turning this show into an ode to herself! Truly she is the one true advocate of all victims (well the young attractive female preferably white ones) everywhere and the patron saint of wonderfulness! Like, gee, who directed this episode again? Someone who wrote in some asshole who exists just for Olivia to tell off? Someone who literally stuck Olivia on a mural with angel wings Who could it be...

This was mostly just a really tedious episode, another he said/she said involving the rich powerful and sexy, more shoddy detective work, more of Olivia being so smug and self-riotous that her own ego could power the city of New York for the next several decades. The main guest actress was doing alright with what she got, and it was shocking to see the show deal with someone in the sex industry again, and we got some Finn and Carisi banter at least (even if him randomly being on the streets is still weird) but this was mostly just more of the same old same old. 

Rollins continues to be one of Olivia's greatest acolytes, getting pissy at Kat for doing anything without signing off with St. Olivia first, and its still annoying. Could she maybe turn the smug down a few notches as well?

Not a super infuriating episode like some others have been, but mostly this was just not very interesting.

[Kel Varnsen]

59 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I should have clarified that better. Why didn't they show him on the stand testifying? 

Because there was obviously more important things they had to put on the screen, like making sure viewers got multiple clear shots of angel Olivia. 

Also I would laugh my ass off if that is a real mural somewhere in NYC now.

[Xeliou66]

Not showing the officer who took and trashed the report testifying was a big error, he provided the only evidence other than the victim’s word that a rape took place. It would’ve been interesting to see how he testified. But that would require good writing for courtroom scenes, which is something they don’t know how to do, and it would take the focus off of Benson. 

There was just nothing interesting or suspenseful about this episode, and a lot of St Olivia worship, which is too bad given that I was ready to see a trial again. 

I didn’t like how Benson pressured Carisi into taking the case to court, saying that if they didn’t arrest it would mean that the victim’s word wasn’t good enough, well guess what Benson, you can’t just arrest someone with zero evidence, Benson was again acting more like an advocate than a police captain.

I also didn’t like Carisi needing a pep talk from Benson to get his head straight. The only thing I liked about the Carisi/Benson interaction is that Carisi now calls Benson “Liv” instead of addressing her by her rank like he used to, it’s at least a small sign that they are on equal footing. 

Another thing - I thought it was inappropriate how Benson hired a lawyer for the victim, it wasn’t Benson’s place to get a defense lawyer for someone given that she’s a police captain, I wonder what Chief Garland would say about Benson hiring defense lawyers for those accused of breaking the law? 

I also didn’t like Rollins attitude towards Kat, Rollins is a screw up who’s broken the rules numerous times so she can get off her high horse. 

There was just so much wrong and poorly done with this episode. 

[wanderingstar]

My big takeaway from this episode is that I will never un-see angel wings Carisi. And now I am mad.

[Zoe]

Ewww... Carisi took the napkin he used to open the bathroom door and then wiped his mouth with it and put it in his pocket! He turned the napkin inside out, but that just tells me he knew how disgusting it was!

[walnutqueen]

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Saint Olivia has finally ascended to the heavens! That was seriously embarrassing, it honestly looked like something I would have said as a joke making fun of Mariska and her turning this show into an ode to herself!

I've seen my share of ridiculosity, but this was truly some next level nut-fuckery.  

Could she BE any more delusional?  [/Chandler Bing voice]

[preeya]

5 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

I've seen my share of ridiculosity, but this was truly some next level nut-fuckery.  

Could she BE any more delusional?  [/Chandler Bing voice]

ridiculosity & nut-fuckery - two great adjectives  and yes, she is totally delusional

Both Executive Producer & CAPTAIN have gone to their respective heads as Mariska Hargitay & Olivia Bensen.

Edited January 19, 2020 by preeya

[MinorL]

On 1/17/2020 at 12:32 AM, GussieK said:

Carisi’s first trial would not be this case, even though he was selected for his job because of his SVU background. Baby ADAs in NYC handle misdemeanor arraignments in night court for a while. 

Exactly. They would never let a new attorney first chair a rape case, much less  one this high profile involving a semi-celebrity and all of the publicity. Also, they would have at least one other ADA sitting at the counsel table. 

[preeya]

29 minutes ago, MinorL said:

Carisi’s first trial would not be this case, even though he was selected for his job because of his SVU background. Baby ADAs in NYC handle misdemeanor arraignments in night court for a while. 

 

29 minutes ago, MinorL said:

Exactly. They would never let a new attorney first chair a rape case, much less  one this high profile involving a semi-celebrity and all of the publicity. Also, they would have at least one other ADA sitting at the counsel table. 

They should have used "Perry Mason Benson" as the other ADA at the prosecuter's table. After all she was training Carisi throughout the entire episode.

[Xeliou66]

28 minutes ago, MinorL said:

Exactly. They would never let a new attorney first chair a rape case, much less  one this high profile involving a semi-celebrity and all of the publicity. Also, they would have at least one other ADA sitting at the counsel table. 

I thought of this as well, Carisi’s first trial as lead prosecutor wouldn’t be the trial of a celeb for a rape, and they would have 2 ADA’s at the table. However I’m willing to forgive this because I want to see trials and I don’t care to see the awful Hadid character or another ADA as lead prosecutor with Carisi assisting.

It would’ve been more natural if Carisi had mentioned trying a couple of some smaller cases that weren’t shown, but I guess they wanted to have Carisi’s first trial be onscreen and be a big case, but the execution of it was botched badly. 

I hope that going forward things settle down regarding the DA’s stuff, I don’t like how the writers want to portray the DA’s office as a dysfunctional bureaucracy to the point where the SVU Chief doesn’t even trust the DA’s office, instead of as the competent, upstanding office we’ve always seen it to be throughout the franchise, I hope we will just see Carisi doing his job without Hadid and without any of the pressure of being a new ADA since he now has trial experience under his belt. And I don’t want to see him needing words of advice from Benson to do his job. 

And I guess they are just too cheap to get an extra to sit with Carisi at the prosecutors table.

[preeya]

51 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I hope we will just see Carisi doing his job without Hadid and without any of the pressure of being a new ADA since he now has trial experience under his belt. And I don’t want to see him needing words of advice from Benson to do his job. 

All well and good, but they did this with Barba and the Chicago guy (can't recall his name). No matter who is in the DA's office Buttinski Benson will always be there attempting to lend her .02¢ to whatever side she decides to take that particular week.

[dttruman]

8 hours ago, preeya said:

8 hours ago, MinorL said:

Carisi’s first trial would not be this case, even though he was selected for his job because of his SVU background. Baby ADAs in NYC handle misdemeanor arraignments in night court for a while. 

 

8 hours ago, MinorL said:

Exactly. They would never let a new attorney first chair a rape case, much less  one this high profile involving a semi-celebrity and all of the publicity. Also, they would have at least one other ADA sitting at the counsel table. 

They should have used "Perry Mason Benson" as the other ADA at the prosecuter's table. After all she was training Carisi throughout the entire episode.

Before L&O SVU finally runs it's course, I wouldn't be surprised if during a court scene we see (at the same time) Benson testifying on the stand, being questioned by herself as the ADA, and being presided over by the Honorable Olivia Benson.

[dttruman]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It would’ve been more natural if Carisi had mentioned trying a couple of some smaller cases that weren’t shown, but I guess they wanted to have Carisi’s first trial be onscreen and be a big case, but the execution of it was botched badly.

That is what they would usually do to accelerate his experience, but if he had that experience, then one would assume he never would have been in that predicament and he wouldn't need a vital Benson all inspiring speech.

So the Big Question is, should they expedite Carisi's trial experience to legitimize him prosecuting a major trial or making sure Benson gives her usual but not so realistic encouraging speech?  So I guess this was a no brainer for them.

[Kel Varnsen]

11 hours ago, MinorL said:

Exactly. They would never let a new attorney first chair a rape case, much less  one this high profile involving a semi-celebrity and all of the publicity. Also, they would have at least one other ADA sitting at the counsel table. 

This is probably true but don't forget that Fin also spent like half a shift as a patrol sergeant before going back to SVU.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[HunterHunted]

On 1/17/2020 at 2:32 AM, GussieK said:

Carisi’s first trial would not be this case, even though he was selected for his job because of his SVU background. Baby ADAs in NYC handle misdemeanor arraignments in night court for a while. 

15 hours ago, MinorL said:

Exactly. They would never let a new attorney first chair a rape case, much less  one this high profile involving a semi-celebrity and all of the publicity. Also, they would have at least one other ADA sitting at the counsel table.

14 hours ago, preeya said:

They should have used "Perry Mason Benson" as the other ADA at the prosecuter's table. After all she was training Carisi throughout the entire episode.

 

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I thought of this as well, Carisi’s first trial as lead prosecutor wouldn’t be the trial of a celeb for a rape, and they would have 2 ADA’s at the table. However I’m willing to forgive this because I want to see trials and I don’t care to see the awful Hadid character or another ADA as lead prosecutor with Carisi assisting.

It would’ve been more natural if Carisi had mentioned trying a couple of some smaller cases that weren’t shown, but I guess they wanted to have Carisi’s first trial be onscreen and be a big case, but the execution of it was botched badly. 

I hope that going forward things settle down regarding the DA’s stuff, I don’t like how the writers want to portray the DA’s office as a dysfunctional bureaucracy to the point where the SVU Chief doesn’t even trust the DA’s office, instead of as the competent, upstanding office we’ve always seen it to be throughout the franchise, I hope we will just see Carisi doing his job without Hadid and without any of the pressure of being a new ADA since he now has trial experience under his belt. And I don’t want to see him needing words of advice from Benson to do his job. 

And I guess they are just too cheap to get an extra to sit with Carisi at the prosecutors table.

 

 

There was the materials to make a good episode in this, but botched just so badly. It could have been a good episode if the writers actually respected the legal process and what lawyers do. Based on the facts of what we saw, the DAs had a shit case. They had no initial report, no rape kit, no real contemporaneous investigation of the allegation, other potential witnesses who were skeptical, and a victim and victim's attorney who were provocative and attention seeking. Plus there was still the bad blood between SVU and Hadid. The bulk of the episode should have been about the DA's office. It should have been Carisi and a more senior ADA reinterviewing the witnesses, figuring out that the victim's art, online videos, press conference made voir dire really difficult, trying to prep the victim for trial, endless plea offers to the defendant, and seeing how the trial played out.

The Benson vs Hadid pissing match could have continued to play out as an undercurrent. However, Carisi should not have been first chair. That was ridiculous. It's much more likely that Hadid would only have let him on this dog of a case as a 2nd or 3rd after Benson pulled strings, but might sandbag Carisi by giving him the victim's direct. You have a recalcitrant and defiant victim. There has been enough info to suggest that she was going to be a very difficult on the stand and should possibly be treated as hostile. I can see Hadid smirkily saying "Carisi should do the victim's direct because he's the SVU whisperer." It could have still allowed Carisi to panic a little while making him a little less culpable on the whole.

On 1/16/2020 at 11:25 PM, preeya said:

In total agreement with all of this ↑.

Just wondering as an afterthought: was this case intended to mirror the Antonio Brown case(s)? Brown is in deep doodoo with the NFL because of rape allegations and his weird behavior.

On 1/16/2020 at 11:26 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Oh yes I think this was definitely ripped from the headlines of Antonio Brown’s case. 

 

On 1/17/2020 at 4:54 AM, dttruman said:

I wonder if there was a little bit of truth to what Markeevious said on the stand about the women who associate with rich athletes and the things they will do to get some of that money?

Considering that the producers like to do major conspiracies, I wonder if they would do an episode on women who purposely get pregnant by super rich athletes to collect tons of money? It could be so sophisticated as to have the girls impregnated by "in vitro" or something like that. All they have to do is collect the semen and voilà.

 

I don't think this is based on Antonio Brown at all. That story broke late in September. Production goes dark mid December. They tend to give directors like Mariska a ton of lead time for pre-production and post production. When the Antonio Brown story broke, they may have even been filming the episode. The art piece of the story was likely based on Emma Sulkowicz. The rest is pretty generic powerful man less powerful woman story tropes. Although I keep thinking that there is an athlete who did have a part ownership in a restaurant or club where harassment was a recent issue.

Antonio's allegation is very similar to Peyton Manning's. A number of college teammates of Peyton confirmed the trainer's account were essentially what they remembered of the events. Peyton has to pay money to the former trainer about once a decade because he can't stop being an asshole and spontaneous decides to talk shit about her despite the NDA they both signed.

What Markeevious said is essentially correct, but I'm going to amend this his statements. There are opportunists who will do almost anything for money and there are groupies who will do many many many things for a connection. My cousin is a former pro football player. I have another who is a college basketball coach. I have never dated, had sex with, or been involved with an athlete professional or amateur. However, I have seen some shit and it was mind boggling, especially because so many of the girls and women were smart and reasonable outside of their infatuation with wanting to be with an athlete. Kobe Bryant's wife, Vanessa, is a great example because her family kept throwing her in front of Kobe and was pretty willing to accomodate whatever Kobe wanted. She was a high school student when they met on the set of a rap music video shoot where she was a background video vixen. The Birdman catfish is another example.

Honestly, Mariska is a profoundly mediocre director. She's directed 6 other episodes, but this just looked like shit, was blocked like shit, and was slapped together like shit. Former Star Trek actors are kind of my standard for tv actor turned tv directors because they tend to be fairly prolific and frequently do a lot of really technically difficult shows (lots of stunts, CGI effects, or require a ton of make ups and costumes): LeVar Burton, Jonathan Frakes, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Roxann Dawson. What helped was that none of them had such a stranglehold on their shows that the shows couldn't afford to juggle things to allow the actors time off to direct an episode of another tv show.

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Production goes dark mid December. They tend to give directors like Mariska a ton of lead time for pre-production and post production.

She probably had 8-10 murals painted so she could choose which one she liked best.

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Former Star Trek actors are kind of my standard for tv actor turned tv directors because they tend to be fairly prolific and frequently do a lot of really technically difficult shows (lots of stunts, CGI effects, or require a ton of make ups and costumes): LeVar Burton, Jonathan Frakes, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Roxann Dawson. What helped was that none of them had such a stranglehold on their shows that the shows couldn't afford to juggle things to allow the actors time off to direct an episode of another tv show.

The outtakes from the Star Trek series were so hilarious. It looked like they were all having a good time doing it.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

Robert Duncan McNeill

OT: Sad that I didn't recognize McNeill from Star Trek but from the soap, All My Children! (He was one of the many actors to play Charlie Brent [his run was from 1986-1988, where he was involved with a character played by a young Lauren Holly]; another to play the role was Kennedy relative, the late Christopher Lawford!)

Good to hear that McNeill did well.

[breezy424]

I want my Carisi back.  Unless they give him a pair of balls and he tells the saint that she's not his boss anymore.  We saw this very strong character at the end in the court room and if the PTB want to make him ADA, this is what they need to do with this character and stop making the saint the one who makes him this way. 

Noah is never going to happen.  Just like Olivia having a real relationship with a man.  And that's on Mariska.  I've never seen her exude passion ever in a relationship.  Whether it be Tucker or Brian or whoever.  And it's not the writing.  It's the actor.  She really isn't that good. 

And that 'nod' she does in just about every episode after Elliot left bugs the crap out of me.  She did again towards the end of this episode.  It's like it's written in her contract.

[dttruman]

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

11 hours ago, dttruman said:

Robert Duncan McNeill

OT: Sad that I didn't recognize McNeill from Star Trek but from the soap, All My Children! (He was one of the many actors to play Charlie Brent [his run was from 1986-1988, where he was involved with a character played by a young Lauren Holly]; another to play the role was Kennedy relative, the late Christopher Lawford!)

Good to hear that McNeill did well.

Please don't list me for the Robert Duncan McNeill credit. That should go to HunterHunted. His sharp eye pointed that out about the friendly production environment of Star Trek. I only added to it.

[wknt3]

On 1/19/2020 at 6:07 PM, HunterHunted said:

There was the materials to make a good episode in this, but botched just so badly. It could have been a good episode if the writers actually respected the legal process and what lawyers do. Based on the facts of what we saw, the DAs had a shit case. They had no initial report, no rape kit, no real contemporaneous investigation of the allegation, other potential witnesses who were skeptical, and a victim and victim's attorney who were provocative and attention seeking. Plus there was still the bad blood between SVU and Hadid. The bulk of the episode should have been about the DA's office. It should have been Carisi and a more senior ADA reinterviewing the witnesses, figuring out that the victim's art, online videos, press conference made voir dire really difficult, trying to prep the victim for trial, endless plea offers to the defendant, and seeing how the trial played out.

The Benson vs Hadid pissing match could have continued to play out as an undercurrent. However, Carisi should not have been first chair. That was ridiculous. It's much more likely that Hadid would only have let him on this dog of a case as a 2nd or 3rd after Benson pulled strings, but might sandbag Carisi by giving him the victim's direct. You have a recalcitrant and defiant victim. There has been enough info to suggest that she was going to be a very difficult on the stand and should possibly be treated as hostile. I can see Hadid smirkily saying "Carisi should do the victim's direct because he's the SVU whisperer." It could have still allowed Carisi to panic a little while making him a little less culpable on the whole.

But that would have required effort and paying recurring guest star money so we can't have that! It's a shame because we have identified 3 or 4 different ways here that could have made this C- episode into a B+ and I don't think that the current writing staff is too incompetent to see it. So it must be some sort of combination of lack of effort, focus on areas other than quality, and mandates from above.
 

Quote

Honestly, Mariska is a profoundly mediocre director. She's directed 6 other episodes, but this just looked like shit, was blocked like shit, and was slapped together like shit. Former Star Trek actors are kind of my standard for tv actor turned tv directors because they tend to be fairly prolific and frequently do a lot of really technically difficult shows (lots of stunts, CGI effects, or require a ton of make ups and costumes): LeVar Burton, Jonathan Frakes, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Roxann Dawson. What helped was that none of them had such a stranglehold on their shows that the shows couldn't afford to juggle things to allow the actors time off to direct an episode of another tv show.

 

Have to admit that I missed her director credit. But the episode makes so much more sense now. It really has all the hallmarks of a Mariska directed episode. Mediocre staging, poor acting, Benson letting somebody else have some of the spotlight, And of course making the deification of Oliva Benson text rather than subtext. As far as actors directing their own shows, I don't think it's necessarily a matter of the actor's centrality to the series, but their ability to think about the show as a whole and not themselves.
 

On 1/19/2020 at 11:26 PM, breezy424 said:

I want my Carisi back.  Unless they give him a pair of balls and he tells the saint that she's not his boss anymore.  We saw this very strong character at the end in the court room and if the PTB want to make him ADA, this is what they need to do with this character and stop making the saint the one who makes him this way.

Yeah that's not going to happen. I mean this is Benson who lectures JACK MCCOY about how to handle cases. We should just count ourselves lucky they haven't gone to the romantic tension between Benson and the ADA well...
 

Quote

Noah is never going to happen.  Just like Olivia having a real relationship with a man.  And that's on Mariska.  I've never seen her exude passion ever in a relationship.  Whether it be Tucker or Brian or whoever.  And it's not the writing.  It's the actor.  She really isn't that good.

I thought she had decent chemistry with Tucker, but yes MH really does have issues with portraying relationships rather romantic or otherwise. I mean if you can't make scenes work with Andre freaking Braugher the problem isn't the writing or the other actor.

Edited January 22, 2020 by wknt3
ducking autocorrect...