S40: Boston Rob Mariano

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, ProfCrash said:

In a game full of winners one would think that the other players would know that and target him fast. So why haven't they? Ethan and Parvarti are allied with him in the "Old School Alliance". Jeremy and Adam are discussing why he needs to go, so why is he there?

I do think it's simply because they think the need him for challenges/around camp. A group (I don't remember who) was discussing who to boot in the last ep and they were going down the line and were like, "We need Rob." They seem to think they need him in the short term and they believe he'll be easy to get out when they really need to but I'm not sure they're right about that last part lol. Again, I hope they are though! I would find it funny if Rob was just easily and unceremoniously dumped soon. Plus, we'd get to see him and Amber interact on EoE, which could be fun.

[fishcakes]

He is a challenge asset but I don't think that's why they're keeping him since we've thankfully heard no discussion about, "gotta keep the team strong!" The tribe split up immediately into two factions, one led by Jeremy/Natalie and one by Rob/Parvati. Despite how afraid Ben and Denise seem to be about crossing Rob/Parvati, Jeremy could probably rally them to vote out one of them, but I think he's wanting to keep Rob as a shield for the time being. That was basically Jeremy's strategy in his winning season, but since Rob is about a thousand times better at this game than Joe or Savage, Jeremy might miss his chance to get rid of him. Currently Rob and Jeremy are talking to each other about who to vote out, so the poker alliance might be a real thing, but if it is, it seems secondary to other alliances and more likely to dissolve early on as each of them looks to take out the other.

Plus Rob's guard is clearly up for attacks from anywhere. That befuddled conversation he had with Parvati about why apparently no one was targeting them and were they just being clueless was funny to watch, but it also shows that neither one of them is strutting around thinking they've got it in the bag.

[AncientNewbie]

I don't see Rob as a bully, necessarily, but he's someone that would make me very uncomfortable with his aggressive/direct way of questioning when he's chasing something. It may be semantics, but a bully would do something to drag a person down or belittle, to me, where Rob's intentionally tactless because most people don't get cross examined in real life and crumble under the assault. 

[ProfCrash]

9 minutes ago, AncientNewbie said:

I don't see Rob as a bully, necessarily, but he's someone that would make me very uncomfortable with his aggressive/direct way of questioning when he's chasing something. It may be semantics, but a bully would do something to drag a person down or belittle, to me, where Rob's intentionally tactless because most people don't get cross examined in real life and crumble under the assault. 

But he is only that blunt with some people. With others he is far more smooth. He approaches Jeremy very differently then he does Adam or Ben or Michele.

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

But he is only that blunt with some people. With others he is far more smooth. He approaches Jeremy very differently then he does Adam or Ben or Michele.

This is the greatest argument for him being a bully imo. He treats the people he feels are weaker/that he doesn't respect differently. 

I personally think he has bully tendencies tbh and that overall he's kind of just a complete asshole, but he's also sort of adorable and I kind of love him. 

[truthaboutluv]

YMMV but I think when it comes to Rob, perception is reality and some truly are determined to see him as this big bad meanie and so scenarios and situations are created that may not exactly be reality. Or I should say not reality to other viewers. 

Perfect example. In the episode thread, a poster used the example of how Rob basically told Adam to work with them or else he would make everyone think he was and so that was an example of his essentially almost bullying Adam to do what he wanted. Except that's not what happened. Rob was perfectly pleasant to Adam in their conversation, while yes, trying to make a case for Adam to work with him and Parvati.

It was in his confessional he proceeded to say that he'd just lie and tell the others Adam was trying to work with him no matter what Adam did. He didn't say that to Adam. But some decided he was bullying poor Adam. 

And yes, he told Michelle to not bullshit him when he confronted her AND Jeremy, lest we forget, when Michelle tried to claim that they weren't going after Parvati. So he didn't just go after "weak" Michelle and interrogate her. He approached her and Jeremy and called them both out plainly about knowing they were coming after Parvati.

But then this week we also saw him and Michelle having a perfectly pleasant and warm conversation. A scene I found totally random but now makes me wonder if Michelle and Rob have a side alliance that people don't even know about. 

As I said before, yes, Rob is good at reading people which makes him good at manipulating them if need be, in a game that has a lot of manipulation. But the determination to villainize him as this big bad bully is just a stretch to me. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[peachmangosteen]

11 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

YMMV but I think when it comes to Rob, perception is reality and some truly are determined to see him as this big bad meanie ...

For sure, and it goes the other way as well. 

[loki567]

Quote

It was in his confessional he proceeded to say that he'd just lie and tell the others Adam was trying to work with him no matter what Adam did. He didn't say that to Adam. But some decided he was bullying poor Adam. 

I actually went back to watch that scene just to make sure and at the end, Rob did tell Adam that he would tell people they were still working together even if they weren't and who could, "tell what the truth was out here?" 

I wouldn't classify that as bullying, mind you, but it is the type of thing that would make me never want to work with Rob. And Adam should have immediately told Jeremy and Michele what Rob said so Rob wouldn't be able to lie to them first. 

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, loki567 said:

I actually went back to watch that scene just to make sure and at the end, Rob did tell Adam that he would tell people they were still working together even if they weren't and who could, "tell what the truth was out here?" 

Thanks, I stand corrected. And just so it's clear, I've never denied Rob being incredibly manipulative as a player and someone that I would not want to keep around for too long if I was playing Survivor. 

I just don't think these qualities make him a bully or this mean asshole picking on the so-called weaker players. As I said in another post, I've seen bullies on this show. Mean, Grade A assholes who were both emotional and physical bullies. And I just don't see that in Rob.

And as I said, it almost feels like for some time stopped when it comes to him and he will never be anything but a guy who first showed up on this show 20+ years ago. Because truthfully, I was pretty young when Marquesas aired and I don't remember a lot about it. I know there was the drama between him and a gay contestant and many felt his actions were homophobic.

So you know what, maybe he was a dickish bully back then. However, as someone who watched and remembered all his other appearances, I simply don't see that and I damn sure haven't seen any of that this season. 

[Hera]

I haven't seen Marquesas, but I also don't think Rob is a bully. There are lots of elements of Survivor that I'm fine with in-game, but don't like in real life: lying, double-crossing, snooping, digging through each other's personal belongings. In the game, if you can get away with those things (and not everyone does), then they all probably help you and I don't think it's necessarily reflective of your character, unlike in real life (where it might help you, but it is a reflection of the kind of person you are).

For me, the way Rob goes up and directly confronts and interrogates people falls under this category of things that are legitimate to do on Survivor, but not in real life. I don't especially enjoy watching it (or Rob in general), but I don't think he really crosses any lines in the game or that it reflects on who he is outside of it. I also have to give him my grudging respect for changing his approach based on the person. Rob has clearly intuited that he can aggressively lean on someone like Ben, and he'll get what he wants, while he hasn't tried it on Jeremy (that we've seen), because Jeremy is unlikely to respond to that kind of pressure in a way that would be beneficial to Rob's game. I also notice that he doesn't really "control" Parvati (or even try to) the way he did with his allies on Redemption Island—again, because he knows that Parvati will see through any attempts to do and turn on him.

[simplyme]

5 hours ago, Hera said:

I haven't seen Marquesas, but I also don't think Rob is a bully. There are lots of elements of Survivor that I'm fine with in-game, but don't like in real life: lying, double-crossing, snooping, digging through each other's personal belongings. In the game, if you can get away with those things (and not everyone does), then they all probably help you and I don't think it's necessarily reflective of your character, unlike in real life (where it might help you, but it is a reflection of the kind of person you are).

And in Survivor, if you do make it to the final tribal council it's the people you played with who will judge you and hold you accountable for how you played it. So there's often a price to be paid if one's behavior is seen as over the line. Example: Russell Hantz

[ProfCrash]

Russell was a bully and an asshole. Not only did he treat people badly in camp but his talking heads were demeaning and cruel. And he loved publicly mocking people on the bottom.

Rob is manipulative and controlling. I don’t like watching him play. I want him gone. But he is not a bully.

Tom was a bully and emotionally manipulative. I get his backstory is suppose to make me look past that but it didn’t. He was a bully in his season and I hated his win.

[MrsR]

A few years ago John Carroll, the gay nurse who was the leader of the doomed Rotu 4 in the Marquesas did an interview with Cesternino. He said his favorite Survivor was... Boston Rob. He didn't think Rob was homophobic, just trying to find something/anything to get him off balance. BR had said that John was the one contestant he wanted a rematch with because he admired him. Courtenay Yates organized a meeting for them and they had a great time. Neither one of them hold grudges.

John Carroll is not allowed back because he used the Survivor logo with out permission for a charitable event and Burnett came down hard on him. Interesting side note: He became best friends with Neleh.

Edited March 6, 2020 by MrsR

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, MrsR said:

John Carroll is not allowed back because he used the Survivor logo with out permission for a charitable event and Burnett came down hard on him. Interesting side note: He became best friends with Neleh.

She must have offered him a mint.

[fishcakes]

57 minutes ago, MrsR said:

A few years ago John Carroll, the gay nurse who was the leader of the doomed Rotu 4 in the Marquesas did an interview with Cesternino. He said his favorite Survivor was... Boston Rob. He didn't think Rob was homophobic, just trying to find something/anything to get him off balance.

John said the same thing on the show itself right after Rob asked him if he was gay. He actually said, "big deal. I've been out for years," in a confessional. But then last season he said that Dan groping the women brought back bad memories of "getting outed" by Rob, as if those two things are equivalent, and bitterly noted that Survivor built a statue of him. I tend to believe his earlier assessment more than the recent one, which seems like a desperate bid to remain relevant more than anything else. A lot of players, especially in those early seasons, thought they were going to parlay their 15 minutes into something more and for the overwhelming majority of them that didn't happen. Rob managed to become minorly famous (I mean, the guy got namechecked on 30 Rock!) and it eats a lot of people up.  I'd be curious to know how Hunter, who thought he was King Shit in Marquesas but has been most recently seen deep frying flashlights in infomercials, feels about Rob now.

FWIW, I didn't think "are you gay?" was homophobic, but his confessional where he said he thought John was a "big-time queer" was. But that was 20 years ago. It wasn't okay, but he never tried to justify it and hasn't said or done anything since then that indicates he's a homophobe. (Heh. I accidentally typed homophone, which would be a different conversation.) I don't give him a pass for that comment, but I can give him the benefit of the doubt that he's matured and become kinder and more open-minded since then.

[tvgoddess]

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

bitterly noted that Survivor built a statue of him

I get kind of amused that all these Survivors are so bitter about these statues. So many of them are bland and boring as shit. One thing, whether you agree with his gameplay or think he's an ass, or feel like he got his win handed to him, is that people always bring up him up. He's memorable. 

[Rachel RSL]

10 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Tom was a bully and emotionally manipulative. I get his backstory is suppose to make me look past that but it didn’t. He was a bully in his season and I hated his win.

High 5, girlfriend!  (Boyfriend?)  Right there with you.  Tom is one of my most hated winners.  I don't remember if he was a bully/asshole the whole time during his season but I definitely think he used hardcore bullying tactics against poor Ian in that final challenge. 

[tvgoddess]

I'm really going to have to go back and watch Tom's win because I have no memory of this.

[ProfCrash]

35 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

High 5, girlfriend!  (Boyfriend?)  Right there with you.  Tom is one of my most hated winners.  I don't remember if he was a bully/asshole the whole time during his season but I definitely think he used hardcore bullying tactics against poor Ian in that final challenge. 

I thought he was awful the entire season but that was me.

And it is girlfriend 😉

[fishcakes]

5 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

High 5, girlfriend!  (Boyfriend?)  Right there with you.  Tom is one of my most hated winners.  I don't remember if he was a bully/asshole the whole time during his season but I definitely think he used hardcore bullying tactics against poor Ian in that final challenge. 

I didn't like Tom from the beginning of the season because he was so smug, but his bullying didn't really come out until later. He was like an affable neighbor until he felt threatened and then he would get borderline menacing. I think it was Caryn he tried to strongarm at one point? There was someone other than Ian, but I don't remember the details. What he did to Ian was awful, but Katie had already broken Ian down so much, I'm not sure if Tom knew how much the attacks on Ian's honor would devastate him. I actually think Katie treated Ian worse than Tom did, so as between those two, I was glad that Tom won. Well, and also because Katie was just useless in general.

[LadyChatts]

On 3/6/2020 at 4:41 PM, Rachel RSL said:

High 5, girlfriend!  (Boyfriend?)  Right there with you.  Tom is one of my most hated winners.  I don't remember if he was a bully/asshole the whole time during his season but I definitely think he used hardcore bullying tactics against poor Ian in that final challenge. 

I remember loving Tom until I re-watched Palau.  As I was re-watching it, I kept asking myself the same questions-why did I like him again?  Did I have him mixed up with someone else?  Why was he so popular?  I wasn't surprised he crashed and burned on HvsV.  I'm thinking I never really liked him and definitely was having revisionist history as the years went on.  That season as a whole was pretty bad, and Ulong Pagoning itself didn't help (even if it was hilarious). 

Edited March 8, 2020 by LadyChatts

[Rachel RSL]

And I do not see any of Tom in anything Rob has ever done. Not even close.

[Guest]

Rob seems to alternate seasons in terms of how well he does. If you plot his placements over his 5 seasons on a graph it makes a giant "M".

"M" for "Mariano"

Edited March 12, 2020 by tracyscott76

[LadyChatts]

I was sad to see him go.  I didn't want to lose Sarah or Sophie, but I was hoping it'd be Ben or Adam.  However, I don't know if the girls would have worked with Rob had he even approached them to vote one of the guys out.  But Rob seemed pretty down tonight.  I know there will be debate over how he handled his buddy system, but seriously, all Adam and Ben had to do was get up, give him the finger, and run off in the jungle to show him what they thought of working with him.  Were they really afraid he'd get the girls on his side and that's why they didn't want to leave?  I don't know.  I guess I'd have to be stranded out there to see if Rob is really as intimidating as some people make him out to be.  

But I guess there goes the theory of TPTB favoring people this season, because you know dang well they would have had idols and advantages in some magic well that only Rob was given directions to if they wanted him to stay in.  Maybe the pay deal he made and agreeing to come at the last minute soured production on him.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, LadyChatts said:

But Rob seemed pretty down tonight. 

I wondered in the episode thread if he was secretly relieved to be voted out on some level, and part of that comes from his monologue voice-over when he was looking for the idol. All about how he wasn't used to this and he had to do what the "cool kids" were doing. He sounded a little dejected, honestly. It was an interesting parallel to a similar scene with Amber in the first episode, where she was looking for an idol and saying similar things, also sounding a little sad.

But they're still looking happy and fulfilled as ever on Rob's Instagram, so fortunately I think they bounced back XD

[truthaboutluv]

11 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Maybe the pay deal he made and agreeing to come at the last minute soured production on him.

Honestly, I've never bought into these producer conspiracies. Not the ones insisting any fix was in for Rob or any against him. I just think Rob is a player who since All Stars, has a massive target on his back anytime he plays and with this group of players, it was always going to be an uphill battle for him. He could have been helped if his tribes were strong in challenges but well clearly that was not the case. 

11 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

But they're still looking happy and fulfilled as ever on Rob's Instagram, so fortunately I think they bounced back XD

Honestly Rob seemed fine by the time he was giving his tokens to Parvati. I liked that he told her to make a run. Not to mention that Rob's always seemed more than capable of keeping the game as a game and moving on once it's over, unlike some people (looking at you Lex).

Also, maybe it's just me but I've always believed from day one that one of the newer players would win this. I never thought that players like Rob, Parvati, Sandra, etc. were going to win.

I've read no spoilers and would like to keep it that way. But yeah, I kind of just have a gut feeling that one of the "new school" players will take this. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Honestly Rob seemed fine by the time he was giving his tokens to Parvati. I liked that he told her to make a run.

Well he was moments away from being reunited with you-know-who, so I'm sure that took the sting away a bit XD

[azshadowwalker]

The dude who takes a great deal of pride in talking about how stupid he made someone look...even when they're supposedly friends and he knows it's going to be broadcast. Yeah, Rob is a dickhead. Good riddance. Hope this is finally the end of him. 

[ByaNose]

It was a really good episode. Each of the three tribes had different (and, exciting) storylines no matter who was voted out.  It will be interesting how the vote will go next week if Adam, Ben, Sara & Sophie go back to Tribal Council again. You can hid with a tribe of four but you can sure hide behind an advantage like Sara & Sophie have. It should make for an exciting Tribal Council.

[truthaboutluv]

Saw this at Reddit. So I swear I'm not the sappiest person but dammit this made me smile and feel old because I actually remember watching All-Stars.

But in all seriousness, this is something I noticed watching some of their pre-season interviews and found really heart-warming. That more than anything, after all these years, four children later, they still seem so completely in love with each other. And on a shallow note, man Rob was hot during All-Stars. 

 

[Guest]

While it sucks that they're both out so early, I am kind of glad that Rob and Amber have some time to chill out (relatively speaking) together on EoE and reminisce about their first season together without having to worry about getting voted out. Like going back to the place you spent your honeymoon on your anniversary years later,

Unfortunately, the likes of Tyson and Natalie are there, so it won't be totally relaxing XD

[tvgoddess]

20 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Saw this at Reddit. So I swear I'm not the sappiest person but dammit this made me smile and feel old because I actually remember watching All-Stars.

But in all seriousness, this is something I noticed watching some of their pre-season interviews and found really heart-warming. That more than anything, after all these years, four children later, they still seem so completely in love with each other. And on a shallow note, man Rob was hot during All-Stars. 

 

Aw, that second picture really makes my heart kind of melt. I don't care if it makes me sappy. I've always delighted in the fact that their romance was genuine and there were so many Survivors and just regular people that thought it was all fake. Joke's on all of you.

[Eolivet]

Watching it back, I think it's evident Rob just gave up. And I kind of don't blame him. He's seen they went for Amber and they went for Tyson, and he knows he's a dead man walking. And then the swap separated him from Parvati (who'd become his "work wife" in a sense). In that context, "the buddy system" looks more like a hail Mary. Like, "this is all I know how to do, so I might as well do it and see what happens." He might've hung on, tried something with Jeremy and Parvati and Michele on old Sele. But he knew Ben didn't trust him, that Adam played both sides and that Sophie and Sarah were likely part of the vote to get both Amber and Tyson out.

So, I think he knew he was done the moment of the swap.

[Kel Varnsen]

So has Rob said anything about whether or not this will be his last go around on survivor or not? I mean he seems like a decent guy but I just hate how the show loves to hold him up as some master player, because I don't think he is anything close to that. I mean as far as winning prior to this season he was 1 for 4, and the only because they basically made a season that perfectly played to all of his strengths. If you look at all the times CBS tried to give him a million bucks he is 1 for 7 (counting the 2 Amazing Race appearances and the fan vote thing for all Stars that he lost). 

[peachmangosteen]

On 3/13/2020 at 7:01 PM, truthaboutluv said:

And on a shallow note, man Rob was hot during All-Stars. 

He really was. I love when they show old clips just so I can remember how fucking hot he was. He's still hot, but man, All Stars was peak Rob attractiveness.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Eolivet said:

And then the swap separated him from Parvati (who'd become his "work wife" in a sense).

That is the perfect description of those two this season.

[simplyme]

22 hours ago, Eolivet said:

So, I think he knew he was done the moment of the swap.

Agreed. As soon as I saw who was on that tribe, I literally said, "Uh, bye, Rob" to my TV. He had to have had that horrible sinking stomach feeling getting worse as he saw each member.

17 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So has Rob said anything about whether or not this will be his last go around on survivor or not? I mean he seems like a decent guy but I just hate how the show loves to hold him up as some master player, because I don't think he is anything close to that. I mean as far as winning prior to this season he was 1 for 4, and the only because they basically made a season that perfectly played to all of his strengths. If you look at all the times CBS tried to give him a million bucks he is 1 for 7 (counting the 2 Amazing Race appearances and the fan vote thing for all Stars that he lost). 

I think Rob certainly would fall into the category of great (or master) Survivor players. He's not perfect, but no one is. I'd also say that every single game is unique with different personalities who bring their own preferences and biases and strengths and weaknesses, and that luck plays a significant role in how someone does.

So while I'm maybe not a huge Rob fan, I feel he should be given his due. He wasn't bad as a first-time player in Marquesas, showing charisma, strategy, and challenge prowess. After Marquesas he matured as a player and maybe as a person (YMMV). He built on what he had shown in Marquesas, often taking the mantle of leadership and being a workhorse around camp and in challenges, but his relationship-building was really top notch. (In some cases, so was said relationship imploding, but eh. Lex.🙄) He was also very good at realizing when others were considering allying against him and breaking that up by causing a fight between them.

Actually, my biggest issues with Rob are:

1. How boring Redemption Island is to watch (excruciating, made worse by the existence of Natalie Tenerelli. I know that's harsh, but omg. There's a difference between "young" and "budding cult member.") 

2. The fact that in a game where players are absolutely forbidden from making any deals to share prize money, he and his wife are both playing. They and they alone are automatically immune from that rule via shared marital assets. This isn't Rob or Amber's fault, but it is why I don't think they should be allowed to play on the same season.

[Jextella]

On 3/15/2020 at 3:35 PM, simplyme said:

I think Rob certainly would fall into the category of great (or master) Survivor players. He's not perfect, but no one is. I'd also say that every single game is unique with different personalities who bring their own preferences and biases and strengths and weaknesses, and that luck plays a significant role in how someone does.

So while I'm maybe not a huge Rob fan, I feel he should be given his due. He wasn't bad as a first-time player in Marquesas, showing charisma, strategy, and challenge prowess. After Marquesas he matured as a player and maybe as a person (YMMV). He built on what he had shown in Marquesas, often taking the mantle of leadership and being a workhorse around camp and in challenges, but his relationship-building was really top notch. (In some cases, so was said relationship imploding, but eh. Lex.🙄) He was also very good at realizing when others were considering allying against him and breaking that up by causing a fight between them.

Totally agree with this part.   I feel that despite good intentions, none of the old schoolers have been able to adapt to the new nature of the game - fast with lots of twists.  Rob and Amber were particularly slow to pick up on it.  

That, however, doesn't mean any of them weren't good players in their years.  It just means they have a different mental imprint of the game that they have to overcome.  They might even fare more poorly than a new player coming in fresh because they come with assumptions and experiences rather than just learning as they go.  This was pretty apparent right out of the gate, and I would have been really surprised if an old schooler won. 

I also feel the old schoolers may be a little burned out on the whole thing - other than Ethan perhaps.  It's almost like they just don't have interest or energy enough to engage in more meaningful ways from what we've seen so far.

....still, they've all been entertaining, and I'm sure the old school legends got paid a decent chunk of change to return. 

I also feel Boston Rob and Amber are largely responsible for Survivor's success.  Their story and Boston Rob's over the top personality were really engaging which added a whole new dimension to the game.  They earned every cent of whatever they got/get from CBS. 

[ProfCrash]

The old school players also come in with bigger targets because people see them as the trail blazers. They have these huge reputations, whether deserved or not. People know them. Lots of the newer winners are not as well known. What type of game play did Wendall, Adam, Dani, or Adam invent?

The new school game plays better to a more calm player who is moving in the background more then a take charge player. In the early days of the game the more out front players were seen as leaders and that was less of a threat.  Today, the out front players are targets and taken out as soon as they are not needed in challenges.

Rob is a good player but I don't think he is a master. He has made some crappy decisions that cost him his game. In his first season he voted out Hunter, a huge challenge threat, in the tribe stage of the game.

If I am remember correctly, he saw Hunter as an Alpha threat and didn't want people in the tribe to question Rob's leadership. Then his tribe lost challenges, and people. They were at a disadvantage at the swap. Rob's out front play made him the immediate threat to his new tribe and he was out. He might have been in a very different position if they had kept Hunter and won more challenges.

In All Stars he was so focused on saving Amber he burned bridges with a lot of folks on the jury. He had no chance in winning because he stabbed the wrong people in the back in a way that they could not forgive.

In Heros vs Villains he allied with the wrong people and did a bad job of keeping Tyson in line and comfortable. And that bit him in the ass.

 

[AncientNewbie]

I still class Rob as one of the top players. Admittedly, we've seen him a lot to form opinions and admittedly there were bad moves...and admittedly he can't get out of his own way or adapt...so I'm not always sure why I think that. 

I guess I think his strategies and play have shaped a lot of the gameplay of later players. I think if you could run a simulation of any Survivor season it wouldn't come out the same way twice, but his skills and plans put him in contention each time. 

[ProfCrash]

11 minutes ago, AncientNewbie said:

I still class Rob as one of the top players. Admittedly, we've seen him a lot to form opinions and admittedly there were bad moves...and admittedly he can't get out of his own way or adapt...so I'm not always sure why I think that. 

I guess I think his strategies and play have shaped a lot of the gameplay of later players. I think if you could run a simulation of any Survivor season it wouldn't come out the same way twice, but his skills and plans put him in contention each time. 

But that is what puts a target on him and he cannot adapt. And his play led to him losing three seasons before he won. So I don't see that as a top player. The only reason why I can kind of see the argument is that he made it to the final tribal for All Stars. But he played that so, so, so badly that he had no chance at winning.

Essentially, Rob is a more charming Alpha who demands to be seen as an Alpha. He is a more social Ozzy without the fishing skills. They put targets on their back and they are not able to figure out how to deal with those targets.

Had Rob won on his second attempt then I might be more impressed with his play but he has not changed his approach to the game. And he ended up with a ton of sheep on his winning season. Who knows if things would have played out differently if he had been on the other tribe, I suspect that they would have been more then happy to boot Rob once they used up his knowledge and skills. They had no issue voting out the troll.

 

[ljenkins782]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

Rob is a good player but I don't think he is a master. He has made some crappy decisions that cost him his game. In his first season he voted out Hunter, a huge challenge threat, in the tribe stage of the game.

If I am remember correctly, he saw Hunter as an Alpha threat and didn't want people in the tribe to question Rob's leadership. Then his tribe lost challenges, and people. They were at a disadvantage at the swap. Rob's out front play made him the immediate threat to his new tribe and he was out. He might have been in a very different position if they had kept Hunter and won more challenges.

In All Stars he was so focused on saving Amber he burned bridges with a lot of folks on the jury. He had no chance in winning because he stabbed the wrong people in the back in a way that they could not forgive.

In Heros vs Villains he allied with the wrong people and did a bad job of keeping Tyson in line and comfortable. And that bit him in the ass.

I can't agree that any of those were crappy decisions. IMO, his all-time biggest mistake was goofing around in the immunity challenge when he got booted in Marquesas. He has incredible agility and balance and the challenge was balancing on a platform. Had he not screwed around and leaned down to splash people, he could easily have won that challenge and possibly gone on a run of individual immunities. That's the one decision I can lay 100% at his feet, it didn't involve anyone else and was entirely his own dumb move to not take that seriously enough.

IIRC, they were losing challenges WITH Hunter, so it kinda didn't matter to lose him and Hunter was never in a million years going to align himself with Rob, he'd have defected to the other tribe and taken Gina with him.

In All-Stars, saving Amber was in his best interest game-wise, even if he had a personal reason to do it. Lex was not a good long-term ally for him, Lex's plan was to cut anyone who was a threat to him (see, Ethan and Colby) so he'd have cut Rob's throat as soon as he had a chance. He never had a chance to win with THAT jury, but it'd have been a hell of a lot worse if he hadn't saved Amber. It was that alliance that got him there and it forced the jury to make a decision they all hated because it was the same 2 people responsible for all of their ousters who were sitting there in the end.

HvVs was 100% Tyson's boneheaded move. Rob read the play right and planned accordingly, Tyson thought he was smarter than everyone else and changed it on his own. That may have been the genesis of Rob's "buddy system" play that he used with success in RI. Had Russell not gotten into Tyson's ear, Rob's play works fine and Russell goes home. 

I'm sorry to see him go on this season, but yeesh, he got one of the worst draws I've ever seen in that tribal swap. Stuck with the 2 worst male options from his old tribe, plus 2 women who aren't at all susceptible to charm and/or control unlike many of the women in his past (Sarah/Amber/Natalie T). It was a worst-case scenario for sure.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

HvVs was 100% Tyson's boneheaded move. Rob read the play right and planned accordingly, Tyson thought he was smarter than everyone else and changed it on his own. That may have been the genesis of Rob's "buddy system" play that he used with success in RI. Had Russell not gotten into Tyson's ear, Rob's play works fine and Russell goes home.

I think this is exactly right, and it's why I can never agree with the idea that "Rob only knows one way to play, and can't adapt". There are other examples of him adapting, but I think this is the most obvious.

[ProfCrash]

I'll point out that Russell and Parvati used the Buddy System in Heros vs Villains. It was hard for Sandra to get away to talk to Rupert and others on the Hero tribe. As soon as Sandra left to go anywhere, Russell or Parvati went looking for her. So while they didn't call it the Buddy system, they were babysitting Sandra.

 

[fishcakes]

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Rob is a good player but I don't think he is a master. He has made some crappy decisions that cost him his game. In his first season he voted out Hunter, a huge challenge threat, in the tribe stage of the game.

If I am remember correctly, he saw Hunter as an Alpha threat and didn't want people in the tribe to question Rob's leadership. Then his tribe lost challenges, and people. They were at a disadvantage at the swap. Rob's out front play made him the immediate threat to his new tribe and he was out. He might have been in a very different position if they had kept Hunter and won more challenges.

Rob was more than happy to let Hunter be the leader because Hunter was a terrible at it, being bossy and alienating, and he was not a challenge threat. While Hunter was there, they lost every single challenge, both reward and immunity. Rob would have become the alpha once Hunter was gone, but the tribe swap happened the next day and killed Rob's game. Although that was the second time there was a tribe shuffle, the first one happened in Africa, which was airing while Marquesas was filming, so not being aware that it was a new twist, he had no reason to suspect that it might happen.

[tvgoddess]

You guys go easy on Rob today. His real true love is headed elsewhere. 

 

[Jextella]

I kind of liken Rob to Sandra.  He won himself, and he was largely responsible for Amber winning as well.  I kind of feel he is almost like a two-time winner.

Rob knew what to do at the time for sure.  And, he may have been a master of the game back then - just not today.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Jextella

[loki567]

Rob's charismatic, has construction experience, good in challenges, and has an innate ability to read and manipulate human nature. I find it hard to believe that if Rob's first season was in 2020, instead of 2001 that he wouldn't be a good Survivor player. I don't buy for a second the game has "passed him by," or anything.

Returning player seasons are weird. Everybody knows everybody's else game and they're usually looking to take out the biggest, most public threats. I don't think anybody's reputation should take a hit because they get voted out on an All-Stars season. Maybe their reputation can improve, but it shouldn't decline unless they make an ass out of themselves (ex. Lex). 

 

[Kel Varnsen]

When it comes to Rob and greatness I keep coming back to the fact that he didn't win the game until his 4th on a season where the only way it could have been easier for him if he had picked the other players or the challenges himself

As far as ranking great players, just based on overall finishing positions I would say Parvati ranks way higher than Rob when it comes to all time greats. But the show doesn't seem to consider her that way.

Hell everyone on this season is a winner but most of the rest of them one on their first or second time. Are there any people this season who won on their 3rd time?

Edited March 17, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[Mrs. P.]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

When it comes to Rob and greatness I keep coming back to the fact that he didn't win the game until his 4th on a season where the only way it could have been easier for him if he had picked the other players or the challenges himself

As far as ranking great players, just based on overall finishing positions I would say Parvati ranks way higher than Rob when it comes to all time greats. But the show doesn't seem to consider her that way.

Hell everyone on this season is a winner but most of the rest of them one on their first or second time. Are there any people this season who won on their 3rd time?

Tyson