S01.E06: Rare Species

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

The hunt for a dragon is underway.

[AnimeMania]

Were they Reavers or Gremlins, why were there so freakin' many of them?

[thuganomics85]

I couldn't understand the exact dialogue in the reveal, but basically it sounds like that Geralt/Yen's whirlwind romance is connected to his wish from the last episode?  So, that is why Yen is now upset and is questioning if what they have is even real, correct?

Yen's initial escort was such a goofy doofus, that you just knew he was going to get killed in humiliating fashion.  Similarly, the Reaver gang was clearly there to just be dickbags and to get slaughtered by Geralt, Yen, and crew.

So, Geralt has now not only likely lost Yen, but pushed Jaskier away as well.  At least he still has Roache!

I feel bad for Ciri, but I really don't blame Dara for wanting to get the hell out, because a destructive cloud does seem to follow her around.

Looks like the due trying to kidnap Ciri isn't doing it to benefit Nilfgaard, but believe she is special somehow.  I'm sure nothing nefarious is going on here!

[Kasienka]

Hunt for a dragon is my favourite Witcher story so I'm beyond happy they chose to adapt it.  We finally get some dwarves , dwarves are the best species in the Continent! Yarpen Zigrin is exaclty as he should be. I imagined Borch quite diffrently, but I might be one of the few who likes his dragon form. It was different than most fantasy dragons, but at least it's unique desing and I agree with Tea (or was it Vea?) , he is beautiful.

As much as I am a fan of Geralt/Yen and I like how the relationship was depicted in the show, calling it love when it's only the second we see them together may be a little quick. He is deeply infatuated and she feels more than she let's on, but still.

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I couldn't understand the exact dialogue in the reveal, but basically it sounds like that Geralt/Yen's whirlwind romance is connected to his wish from the last episode?  So, that is why Yen is now upset and is questioning if what they have is even real, correct?

Yes. Yen still doesn't believe anyone could actually want her:( My heart broke for her when she heard she will never regain the ability to have kids. And than it broke for Jaskier:( You better work out your issues Geralt.

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, Kasienka said:

Yes. Yen still doesn't believe anyone could actually want her:( My heart broke for her when she heard she will never regain the ability to have kids. And than it broke for Jaskier:( You better work out your issues Geralt.

Mine didn't, there was no reason to magically transform yourself in the first place, other than vanity. I am guessing you can stay the same and have kids or change yourself and be sterile. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by AnimeMania
Removed a spoiler.

[Fireball]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 2:36 PM, AnimeMania said:

Mine didn't, there was no reason to magically transform yourself in the first place, other than vanity. I am guessing you can stay the same and have kids or change yourself and be sterile. 

Totally agree! Yen is annoying me with this whole I want it all, I want what was taken from me, I want a baby. They took my choice! No sweetie you decided to make the exchange of your ability to have children to be beautiful. Her constant whinny about how they took her choice and made her become a mage is very very tiresome and I wish Geralt had a different love interest.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Fireball

[MissLucas]

Yes, nothing was taken from her. She chose to forego kids for looks - and given all the abuse she suffered for her looks it was an understandable choice. Less so for all her classmates who were already good-looking and did not need a bloody makeover - but maybe that was a requirement no matter what.

Yennefer's disillusionment should have been given more time to make her come across less whiny. And did she ever mention that she would give up her powers in order to have a kid? 

[DearEvette]

My favorite people in the episode from best to worst:

1. Jaskier

2. The dwarves

3. The golden dragon dude and his Dora Milaje

4. Dara

10. Geralt

11. Ciri

99. Yennefer.

Jumping yodeling Jesus, her whining.  Look, If the show had spent any time at all giving us any evidence that she had this deep seated and abiding longing for a child I could buy this.  Even if during her makeover if she had paused  or seemed uncertain when makeover dude told her she couldn't have children then it would have given a clue.  But as it is, it just comes off as a bit of a head scratcher.

The character writing, character motivation building, and background context on this show just sucks. How are we supposed to believe the insta-love.  I do like that the show has clearly shown that Geralt has a very protective instinct, especially wrt to women, but his connection to Yen just doesn't come off as believable.  It feels like 'oh we need to check off this plot point, quick onto the next one.'

And again with the telling... not the showing... Fringilla telling us that she 'witnessed the white flame call on [Cahir], mold you, anoint you' etc.  She obviously believes in whatever it is Cahir is doing and apparently all sorts of stuff happened. Would have  been nice to see it, why she is so dedicated to his cause, why she refers to them as 'our people' and how he freed them from chains.  As it is we spend a lot of time with Ciri running through the woods doing a whole lot of nothing. It is very lopsided storytelling when we don't get to see why her antagonist is her antagonist.  And what drives him.  And based on what Fringilla has said, it sounds like it would have been a lot more interesting to see what was going on in Nilfgaard than watching Ciri flail about or seeing Yennefer preside over a naked orgy.

Finally, am totally on Dara's side.

[Fireball]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

The character writing, character motivation building, and background context on this show just sucks. How are we supposed to believe the insta-love.  I do like that the show has clearly shown that Geralt has a very protective instinct, especially wrt to women, but his connection to Yen just doesn't come off as believable.  It feels like 'oh we need to check off this plot point, quick onto the next one.'

And again with the telling... not the showing... Fringilla telling us that she 'witnessed the white flame call on [Cahir], mold you, anoint you' etc.  She obviously believes in whatever it is Cahir is doing and apparently all sorts of stuff happened. Would have  been nice to see it, why she is so dedicated to his cause, why she refers to them as 'our people' and how he freed them from chains.  As it is we spend a lot of time with Ciri running through the woods doing a whole lot of nothing. It is very lopsided storytelling when we don't get to see why her antagonist is her antagonist.  And what drives him.  And based on what Fringilla has said, it sounds like it would have been a lot more interesting to see what was going on in Nilfgaard than watching Ciri flail about or seeing Yennefer preside over a naked orgy.

Finally, am totally on Dara's side.

This soo much.  I feel like the writers are relying on the fact that people have read the books or played the games, so they don't feel like they need to spend the time helping the audience understand the characters motivation.

I feel like they are in such a rush for all the characters to get to point A that the writers don't want to spend anytime explaining anything. For example why does Yen want a baby soo bad? I assume it's because she thinks a baby will have to love her.... But who knows... Yen just comes a crossed to me as a someone who sees herself as a victim and doesn't take any responsibility for her part in how her life has turned out. 

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Jumping yodeling Jesus, her whining. Look, If the show had spent any time at all giving us any evidence that she had this deep seated and abiding longing for a child I could buy this.  Even if during her makeover if she had paused  or seemed uncertain when makeover dude told her she couldn't have children then it would have given a clue.  But as it is, it just comes off as a bit of a head scratcher. 

 

I agree! I could buy Yen wanting a baby if the writers had shown what you wrote. But instead we go from Yen deciding that she will get the mage post she wants and makes whatever his name turn her beautiful. Than instead of showing Yen's time in whatever kingdom she was the mage in and how it didn't live up to expectations and that she basically become a glorified baby sitter with no power and that she came to regret her choice.... But nope we jump from Yen forcing the council to let her go to the kingdom she wanted...to...her baby sitting the Queen and baby....to her being whatever she was in that town where Geralt met her...to... wanting a baby... All while whinny they took my choice!!!!!

7 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Yennefer's disillusionment should have been given more time to make her come across less whiny. And did she ever mention that she would give up her powers in order to have a kid? 

Exactly. The writers need to slow down and take the time to tell a good story. 

[WatchrTina]

Well I was surprised (and delighted) by the reveal that the guy who hired Geralt was actually a rare golden dragon in disguise.  But were the women warriors dragons too?  One of them fell before he did, right?  So he could not have transformed and saved both of them.  Oh well, I'm over-thinking this.  Golden dragons are magic obviously (see his ability to transform his appearance) so I'm gonna assume he was able to save them both via magic.

This show is so weirdly episodic.  I have no clear idea how much time has passed since the episode in which Geralt and Yen knocked boots.  I guess enough time has passed for them to now be awkward around one another (though they got over it during the night spent in that bigger-on-the-inside tent they borrowed from the Weasly family after the Weasleys finished using it to attend the Wizarding World Cup.)

Edited December 26, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Rambler]

Yeah Yennifer's desire to have a child makes zero sense in light of her soliloquy on the beach a few episodes back where she was telling the dead baby that it was lucky to have died and not grown up into a world of disappointment.

[Zuleikha]

 Even if during her makeover if she had paused  or seemed uncertain when makeover dude told her she couldn't have children then it would have given a clue.  But as it is, it just comes off as a bit of a head scratcher.

Yennefer doesn't really want a baby. Geralt is right that she would be a horrible mother. She wants to feel worthy of love. When the queen commented on how she was the whole world to her baby, Yennefer saw that as her solution. 

Yennefer's problem is that she doesn't love herself. Until she does, she'll always believe she's not worthy of love and push away those who could love her. IMHO, that's part of why she's rewritten her history to ignore how much of a choice she made. Sure, she didn't have choices about every aspect. She couldn't have not become a mage. But she made a lot of choices once that was her fate (and it's not like she preferred to stay caring for pigs in her abusive home).

I thought Dara should have stayed in the forest in the first place. He and Ciri barely knew each other, and she would always remind him of the way Celanthe murdered his family. I never understood his motivation for leaving with her. But once he did, it was a little crappy of him to throw how she brings destruction everywhere she goes. He knew by that point that she was a hunted princess.

I would really like some meaningful exposition on Nilfgaard already. I kind of like the implication that everything that's happening with the fall of Cintra is a combination of Yennefer and Geralt abandoning their duties/destiny. But I don't really think it's their fault at all. Yennefer wasn't even supposed to be assigned to Nilfgaard originally, so her sneaking Aedirn out from under Fringilla was just restoring Tissaia's original plan. 

[nodorothyparker]

This one, more than anything, made me wish the show wasn't so busy zipping around through so many timelines that we could take a minute to get Geralt's backstory.  When Yennefer was going on again about having her choices taken from her, he responds that he didn't choose to become a witcher either.  In earlier episodes, he's been described as a mutant and he says at one point that the place where he was, made I guess?, is gone, so there won't be anymore like him.  So what is the deal there?  Is there a counterpart to the Worst Hogwarts Ever that had been turning out witchers and what was that process there?  While I'm guessing the answer is available if I want to take on the books, the show needs to provide a satisfactory explanation if it's going to bring it up in the first place in trying parallel Geralt to Yennefer.

I get that Yennefer's massively rewriting history now that she's fixating on this one thing she can't have, and I'm sure at the time she made the choice that she couldn't see the far-reaching implications of it.  She wanted to be beautiful and desirable after a lifetime of mistreatment.  She thought she was going to go out in the world and obtain great power and do great things, and instead as we saw, she spent decades babysitting petty royalty before being reduced to fortunetelling and selling impotence cures.  So I don't doubt there's some amount of the path not taken wistfulness at work.

The present-day scenes between Geralt and Yennefer also seemed to be trying to have it both ways.  She's feeling petty about him leaving immediately after their first hookup in a way that suggests they're at the awkward first time you run into the person you knocked boots with but at the same time, the dialogue seemed to suggest that it's been years since then and there have been other hookups along the way even as they keep circling back to each other.  If magic is the basis for how most things get done in your world, I imagine it would be hard to trust what's real and what's the result of outside intervention.

Beyond that, the dragon hunt was great fun and a great ode to The Hobbit/LOTR.  I loved the gold dragon in disguise, realizing afterward that of course he was in his golden green scale vest with his fierce warrior women saying very seriously that he was the most beautiful thing they'd ever seen.  Note to self that anytime dwarves recommend a shortcut, you're probably not going to like it even if the aforementioned dragon in disguise and his companions were gorgeous in their fall.

Does Jaskier not own any normal colored clothes?  His waking up after the battle was already over felt like such an obvious nod to early seasons Xena when pre fight training Gabrielle would disappear for most of the action only to come strolling back after Xena had already handled everything.

I'm going to need the evil Black Knight guy to pick a motivation, and if you're going to talk and talk some more about how the White Flame is pushing you to do this or that, maybe clue us in who or what exactly the White Flame is.  Oh, and the fight with the doppler?  You'll never match Bruce Campbell fighting himself any of the times he did it.

[Morrigan2575]

On 12/26/2019 at 11:48 PM, Zuleikha said:

Yennefer doesn't really want a baby. Geralt is right that she would be a horrible mother. She wants to feel worthy of love. When the queen commented on how she was the whole world to her baby, Yennefer saw that as her solution. 

Yennefer's problem is that she doesn't love herself. Until she does, she'll always believe she's not worthy of love and push away those who could love her.

Yep! I made the exact comment in the previous episode thread. It all goes back to her biggest fear (no matter how beautiful or powerful she becomes no one will ever love her). The Queen told her about a child's love and now Yen is focused on having a child in order to have someone that will love her. However, it won't matter until she learns to love herself.  I still think Geralt is the person who will love her as she needs/wants but, it will take time. Plus I really think she needs to confront her stepfather. 

She may have been young and hot for 30+ years but, let's not forget she was an abused and bullied child. I don't care how beautiful she made herself on the outside, she is still that same physically, mentally, emotionally abused girl on that inside.

I felt for her with both wammies, first she finds out that what is going on between her and Geralt might be nothing more than magic (which plays into her biggest fear) but, then she's told that she'll never have a child (which she wants because she wants someone to love her).

On 12/25/2019 at 7:27 AM, MissLucas said:

Yes, nothing was taken from her. She chose to forego kids for looks - and given all the abuse she suffered for her looks it was an understandable choice

It's not just looks, all of the mages (at least the women) had to go through it, it was part of their graduation (think Natasha in Age of Ultron).  I think that's why Tissia cares so much for Yen, it's her own maternal instinct coming through.

I'm guessing it's part of "the order" and, something we see a in RL and media (church, Jedi Order, Blackwidow Program, etc)

Yen is by far the most developed and interesting character on the show (IMO), warts and all. She's deeply flawed, arrogant, angry and selfish but, there's a good heart under there. I think she'll have the best arc of the main characters.

back to the episode

I actually figured this one out pretty quickly (green dragon was pregnant/had an egg and Wise Old Man was a Gold Dragon). However, even though i knew it I really enjoyed it.

We're also getting closer to Ciri's timeline. Speaking of, I hate to say this but, Ciri's story bores me. I know it's important but, I much prefer the Geralt and Yen storylines and, now that they're in the same timeline (at least 5 & 6) I hate when the show breaks to go back to Ciri.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Morrigan2575

[MissLucas]

43 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

It's not just looks, all of the mages (at least the women) had to go through it, it was part of their graduation (think Natasha in Age of Ultron).  I think that's why Tissia cares so much for Yen, it's her own maternal instinct coming through.

 

Yeah, but all her classmates were already good-looking - they may had to go through the transition as well but none of them required a realignment of their spine and magical chiseling of their jawbone. I think the casting failed the story here a bit. They way it was presented here Yennefer yearned for good looks probably just as much as for magical power.

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Yeah, but all her classmates were already good-looking - they may had to go through the transition as well but none of them required a realignment of their spine and magical chiseling of their jawbone. I think the casting failed the story here a bit. They way it was presented here Yennefer yearned for good looks probably just as much as for magical power.

They were all pretty although, they all had things they wanted to upgrade (Yen mentions this in 103). However, they all had to give up their ability to reproduce in order to graduate.

To a certain extent Yen was right that they took it from her. Yes, she was angry, headstrong and most definitely wanted to be pretty (I imagine anyone that's been bullied for their appearance would want that). At the same time the girls didn't really have a choice in the matter, well many/most didn't. We know that Yen was purchased and, had nowhere to go, she was a prisoner. Same with the other girl (Sabrina?) who just wanted to go home in 103.  By graduation time it's get the upgrade or get turned into a eel (I guess).

I'm not saying Yen is totally blameless. she absolutely tossed aside the ability to reproduce in order to get the power/position she wanted. However, I can also understand how a young/angry/ woman who thought if only I was hot, powerful and influential then people will love me and I'll love myself, can end up regretting that decision 30 years later after realizing that money/power/beauty won't make you happy. 

Yen is most definitely a flawed character and I can see why people aren't happy with her but, I just view her as a tragic character that really needs to learn to love herself because using power, magic, beauty, sex, money, influence will not fill that void.

[Bruinsfan]

I'll also point out that someone whose ancestry/blood gave her physical deformities that prevented her from doing simple barnyard chores correctly, caused difficulty speaking, and invited scorn and abuse from almost everyone around her growing up might have just a smidge more motivation to both seek a magical makeover and accept the resulting sterility than girls who weren't completely satisfied with a few flaws in their complexion or frizzy hair.

[Jack Shaftoe]

The whole "magic plastic surgery" nonsense makes Yennefer look like a total hypocrite. No one forced her to undergo that surgery, in fact she literally talked the magic surgeon guy into performing it then and there. The writers could have simply made it so that using magic made people sterile, no surgeries required.

Spoiler

The whole "every sorceress is super hot" thing is dumb enough in the books, they didn't to make it even more cringe-worthy by claiming they became sterile just to get better looks, not because you can't avoid it if you cast enough spells.

If it had been just Yennefer who underwent that surgery, it would have made sense (well, except for the part when she whined about how they "forced" her) but every sorceress (and maybe their male colleagues too?) doing it makes them all look extremely shallow. Why would a king value that much a sorceress who looks like a supermodel? He would try to sleep with her, probably, but wouldn't respect her any more than he would respect an average looking one. Hell, he might even respect her less. So I am more annoyed by the bad worldbuilding than by Yennefer herself.

Also, in this episode, she had to use a sword to beat off a few Reavers. I know it would have been boring if she had snapped her fingers and killed them but mages are supposed to be very powerful in the WItcher universe. The mid-fight kiss was downright embarrassing, and I say that as someone who ships Yen and Geralt in general.

Honestly, the whole show so far feels rushed and disjointed because the writers tried to give a lot of screen time to each of the three protagonists in many different timelines. Lots of years have passed but Yen still acts like a spoiled teenager too often, Geralt is still way too gruff with Jaskier and can't seem to make up his mind if he wants him around or not. On the other hand, Ciri's storyline has moved very little since episode one.

Edited January 2, 2020 by SilverStormm
Tagged book talk

[Danny Franks]

People are so belligerently dumb in this world. This Borch guy appears, with two clearly armed and dangerous woman, and the horse thief apparently thinks that, because Borch himself isn't obviously armed, he can attempt to bully him?

I like the antipathy between Jaskier and Yennefer. On his part, it's a combination of her being dangerous and of her being a bad influence on Geralt. On her part, she seems to just find him annoying. In fact, about the only times I like her are when she's being mildly annoyed by Yaskier.

Personally, I'm really not into the Geralt/Yennefer romance. I don't think the actors have much chemistry, and I was never a fan of the pairing in the games. And the petty baiting and jealousy wasn't a good creative decision. I'm more interested in seeing him meet Ciri, and figure out what the whole destiny thing is about. But Yarpen was right, "that knight [was] a fucking dumbbell."

And, Yen? You took your choice. The wizard guy was quite clear about what it would cost you. Again, if you want to have a child so badly, adopt one. There are probably thousands of needy orphans, in a world like this. I get it, her and Geralt are both sad little puppies, lost in the vagaries of meaningless existence, and now they're tied together they'll probably spend all that existence torturing one another.

Dara is too savvy for this story. I guess they needed a way around the deus ex machina of the Doppler. Getting out alive is the best anyone can really hope, in this story.

I always find there's something very sad about dragons - a sense of a world passing away, because they always seem to be dying out. Even when they're not sapient animals, like they apparently are in this world.

The CGI dragon was not great, though. I think that's the first time this show has really been exposed in terms of budget.

Ciri needs to get on with it and become more than a damsel in distress.

[DearEvette]

On 1/1/2020 at 2:12 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

If it had been just Yennefer who underwent that surgery, it would have made sense (well, except for the part when she whined about how they "forced" her) but every sorceress (and maybe their male colleagues too?) doing it makes them all look extremely shallow. Why would a king value that much a sorceress who looks like a supermodel? He would try to sleep with her, probably, but wouldn't respect her any more than he would respect an average looking one. Hell, he might even respect her less. So I am more annoyed by the bad worldbuilding than by Yennefer herself.

I think the creators went for the shallow purposely and it makes the show somewhat stupider for it.  They went for the instant reaction they knew the viewers would get when we are hit with the contrast of the sad, forlorn, deformed Yennefer with her new banging body and permanently lashed and eye shadowed self.  It is kinda peurile.

Instead of being sold as a 'hey we all hate something about ourselves, we have the power to make ourselves really pretty'  I think from a storytelling and world-building standpoint, it would have hit harder and made a more solid impact if it had presented somewhat cryptically as a final task to really become a sorceress.  A kinda 'Either you are all in or you're not' deal.  Are you prepared wholly to subsume yourself over to the power and give up everything for it.  And if you say yes, even though you don't know what this final 'it' is,  the surprise result would be this transformation into beauty perfection as a great by-product and a reward for your all in commitment.

[Loandbehold]

I was just telling my friends the other day about how much I miss the old dragon hunts we used to go on. So this episode brings back some nice memories. Dragon hunts are cool. And I liked that the guy proved Geralt wrong about gold dragons being a myth. Geralt being shown to be wrong will never get old.

And what's up w/ leaving Jaskier behind before the final assault? Anything could have happened to him left alone and sleeping w/ murderous people around. Did Yennifer put a spell on him like she did the dwarves? I hope we get to see more of that cantankerous crew. They were fun.

What was w/ Geralt's deal at the end. Dude, I'm not even Jaskier's biggest fan and I was taken aback. Jaskier may have wanted to follow you on a dragon hunt for a new song, but he couldn't make you do anything. Blaming him for all your problems was rather unfair.

Speaking of our bard, being human he should be aging normally and he still looks the same age as when they were at the banquet and Geralt claimed the right to Ciri. Geralt did seem to indicate a few years had passed b/c this was not the first time he and Yennifer had seen each other since the time they brought the castle down around themselves. Which means we are, what, around 8 - 10 years earlier than the "present" (Ciri's) time line?

I've been reading w/ interest the discussion of Yennifer's desire for a child and her lashing out at others for the choice she made. I believe someone upthread mentioned that, growing up, she never believed she could ever have a child b/c she was too ugly and deformed to have a mate, so when the opportunity arose to become beautiful but forego childbirth, she didn't believe she would be losing anything. It was only decades later. when, during the course of the chase and fight where she failed to protect the young queen that it hit home that she would never be able to give birth to someone who loved you with all their baby heart. This doesn't excuse her behavior, such as forcing people to have orgies and lashing out at others (can you say transference), but I think it at least explains things a little (at least to my satisfaction).

[tennisgurl]

I liked this episode a lot, possibly because it was kind of like one of my DnD campaigns come to life! The party meets at a tavern, you have a bunch of classic DnD archetypes (dwarf fighter, cleric, bard, etc) you get a mission, there are several twists and turns, it was a lot of fun. I liked most of the one off characters, especially the dwarfs and the dragon in disguise as a man and his two bodyguards, it was fun having a bunch of characters to bounce off each other. That one dumb ass knight that Yennefer brought along was so inept, and so clearly unware of what kind of story this is, I knew he wasnt going to last very long. Like, congrats dude, you killed a starving and helpless creature, look out we got a badass here! I did enjoy the "...holy crap" expressions on everyone's faces while he kept stabbing at the poor thing even when it was clearly dead, and everyone making fun of him. We also keep getting bits and pieces of what Nilfgaard is getting up to, and we seem to be sort of tracking their rise as an empire in the background until we get to Ciris part of the story where they are an extremely powerful apparently evil empire that is taking over all of the other kingdoms. 

The two warrior women didnt lie, that dragon really was beautiful. I love dragons in fantasy stories, so I am happy with how all of this worked out. Plus, Geralt got to see something even he had never seen before, and it didnt even want to kill him! 

Yennefer can be a real pain in her constant complaining and magically flailing about and going hot and cold for seemingly random reasons, but I do get it and think I understand why she is like this. She was a miserable, poor, deformed, abused child who was given great power and the possibility of wealth, but it wasnt enough to make her happy. She thought that becoming beautiful would make her happy, but it wasnt enough. Now that she has those things, and its still not enough, she wants a child, because that is supposedly something that will make her happy, and give her the validation and love that she never got growing up. And this whole idea of her wanting a "choice" of having a kid or not is probably something similar, even though, as we remember, she DID have a choice, the magic makeover guy straight up told her what would happen if she got this makeover, its just that she thinks that having all of her options opened will, again, make her feel happy and fulfilled. Its often irritating as a viewer, in a "oh my god, just live with the choices you made!" or a "is nothing ever good enough for you!?" kind of way, but I do get it and find it to be consistent with what we have seen from her since her first scene. She was a miserable suicidal teenager, and she hasn't lost that part of herself yet. 

Whoever is going around saying that Witchers dont feel emotions is clearly either very misinformed or a big fat liar, because, while Geralt is certainly rather stoic, he clearly feels all of the feels, all of the time. If anything, he sometimes struggles with controlling the feels. I mean, he was so pissed off and hurt about Yennefer yelling about how their connection was a lie, that he even pushed Jaskier, his best friend even if he wont admit it, away! Now I guess its just him and Roach. 

I am pretty amused by the fact that Jaskier and Yennefer clearly are not fans of each other, and cant even be bothered to hide their mutual disdain. Its unfortunate for them that they are presumably going to be stuck in each others general orbits, as Yennefer is fated to keep bumping into Geralt, and while they might be fighting now, its inevitable that Jaskier and Geralt with make up when Geralt realizes what an asshole he was and they bump into each other again. 

I asked my partner, who is a really big fan of the franchise, about the almost episodic nature of the season, and I guess its because this season is based mostly on a series of short stories set in the Witcher universe, that were pretty self contained, mixed in with some stuff from the main plot of the less episodic parts of the story, so I think that kind of explains it. Like this episode is basically a short story with the dragon quest, while Ciris stuff is more connected to the greater overarching story. It will be interesting to see how it all kind of ties together in the future.

[iMonrey]

Game of Thrones has ruined dragons for every other show that doesn't have as big a budget. 

This show has such great moments and such potential but it feels wildly uneven. The stories about Geralt feel episodic whereas the stories about Yennefer and Ciri feel serialized. It's like two different shows are going on. There's nothing to distinguish a measure of time from week to week with Geralt but clearly we're jumping over big chunks of time every time Yennefer shows up. Meanwhile Ciri's storyline is taking place in another timeline altogether. 

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And again with the telling... not the showing... Fringilla telling us that she 'witnessed the white flame call on [Cahir], mold you, anoint you' etc.  She obviously believes in whatever it is Cahir is doing and apparently all sorts of stuff happened. Would have  been nice to see it, why she is so dedicated to his cause, why she refers to them as 'our people' and how he freed them from chains.  As it is we spend a lot of time with Ciri running through the woods doing a whole lot of nothing. It is very lopsided storytelling when we don't get to see why her antagonist is her antagonist.  And what drives him.  And based on what Fringilla has said, it sounds like it would have been a lot more interesting to see what was going on in Nilfgaard than watching Ciri flail about or seeing Yennefer preside over a naked orgy.

Yeah I don't get who this guy is that's chasing after Ciri. Furthermore I do not remember Fringilla, at all. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

This show has such great moments and such potential but it feels wildly uneven. The stories about Geralt feel episodic whereas the stories about Yennefer and Ciri feel serialized. It's like two different shows are going on

I saw an interview with Henry Cavill about Witcher and he talked about that.  Apparently it was by design.  I'll try and find it again I can't remember his explanation for why they did that.

[Jack Shaftoe]

The explanation is that the short stories on which the first season is based are mostly about Geralt and episodic. Yennefer's story (except for her meetings with Geralt) is almost entirely a creation of the show writers based on a few vague hints about her past. Ciri... I have no idea why Ciri's story was disjointed chronologically, not only in relation to the other two main plot lines but on its own too. The writers wanted the big battle in episode one, I guess. The showrunner wanted each of the three main characters to have lots of screen time in season 1. Personally I am not sure this was the best idea, Yennefer could have used an aura of mystery rather than a long Marvel superhero type of origin story and Ciri's stay in the woods was so random and pointless.

[DearEvette]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah I don't get who this guy is that's chasing after Ciri. Furthermore I do not remember Fringilla, at all. 

She was the one whose hand withered during the Sorceress School Magic 101 class.  And during Career Placement day, she was assigned to Yennefer's hometown while Yennefer was originally selected to go Nilfgaard.  But then Yennefer came in with her perfect 10 dance moves and got the hometown assignment instead.  So Fringilla was given Nilfgaard.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

And during Career Placement day, she was assigned to Yennefer's hometown while Yennefer was originally selected to go Nilfgaard.  But then Yennefer came in with her perfect 10 dance moves and got the hometown assignment instead.  So Fringilla was given Nilfgaard

Vice Versa. Originally Yen was supposed to go to Aidren but during the mage discussion Baby Killer and CandyMan decided to give the plush job to Candyman's niece (Fringilla) and send Yen to Nilfgard. That's why Yen was so pissed

Edited January 10, 2020 by Morrigan2575

[iMonrey]

So why is she called Yennefer of Vengerberg if her hometown is Aidren?

[AnimeMania]

Vengerberg is the capital city of Aedirn.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

Vengerberg is the capital city of Aedirn.

I will never get that spelling right LOL

[iMonrey]

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Vengerberg is the capital city of Aedirn.

See, that's one of the problems I have with this show. There are a lot of strange place names and character names and there's no in-show explanation. I can only assume you know that from the books or games, or have done some online research outside of watching the show.

The show needs some sort of Game of Thrones-type opening sequence with a map showing where characters are and where these places are in relation to one another.

[AnimeMania]

23 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Quote

Vengerberg is the capital city of Aedirn.

See, that's one of the problems I have with this show. There are a lot of strange place names and character names and there's no in-show explanation. I can only assume you know that from the books or games, or have done some online research outside of watching the show.

The show needs some sort of Game of Thrones-type opening sequence with a map showing where characters are and where these places are in relation to one another.

The Witcher's World Map, Countries & Politics Explained

[Morrigan2575]

On 1/10/2020 at 6:56 PM, iMonrey said:

See, that's one of the problems I have with this show. There are a lot of strange place names and character names and there's no in-show explanation. I can only assume you know that from the books or games, or have done some online research outside of watching the show.

I didn't read the books or play the games but they mentioned in 103 that Yennifer was from the Kingdom of Aedirn so I just assumed Vengerberg was a town in that Kingdom. 

[Danny Franks]

Yeah, I don't worry too much about the "of" suffix. It just seems to be there in place of a surname, at least for Geralt and Yennefer.

Where's Rivia? No idea. But it doesn't seem to matter much to the story. It's similar to Conan the Cimmerian - in the stories I've read, Cimmeria is never actually a part of the narrative. It's just a way of giving a character a sense of grandeur.

[paramitch]

I liked this one more than most of the others. Loved the journey and mythic feel of the companions, although I hate that everyone who isn't on Geralt's side is such a goddamned douchebag.

I loved the sad, poetic images as dragon-guy and his badass female warriors fell into the mist, and loved everything about the scene with the dragon. I know GoT has a huge budget, but I liked these dragons just fine. The dead green dragon was so beautiful, curled around her egg. It was the saddest image in the episode for me. Loved the golden dragon reveal and his protecting the egg and his mate, even if gone.

I wish I liked the Yennefer/Geralt stuff, but I just don't see any connection with them.

And -- on a really really shallow note -- all the sex scenes on this show are so bad. Just a bunch of terrible shots of naked women pumping on an inexplicably fully clothed Geralt. I mean, did the person blocking and choreographing this show ever actually have sex? Why is there no foreplay? Why are the sex scenes so fucking unsexy? My only guess is that they're concerned with not just the male gaze, but the teenaged male gaze, and whether or not Geralt is Good at All the Sex is immaterial because he's a badass and gets all the chicks.

But gah. It's criminal. Especially when you factor in how much of the time required for poor Anya (Yennefer's actress) to be naked without equal time with the men on this show. I mean, good lord, yet AGAIN, Geralt is having sex with naked Yen while fully clothed -- and it's supposed to be, I dunno, hot? How? What looks fun about what they were doing?

And yet it's a pivotal plot moment. Something that's supposed to be real and meaningful and life-changing for both of them. True Love. And yet, oh my holy lord, the sex just looks so bad.

On 12/24/2019 at 7:08 PM, Fireball said:

Totally agree! Yen is annoying me with this whole I want it all, I want what was taken from me, I want a baby. They took my choice! No sweetie you decided to make the exchange of your ability to have children to be beautiful. Her constant whinny about how they took her choice and made her become a mage is very very tiresome and I wish Geralt had a different love interest.

This episode crystallized for me the problem I have with the show. It shows and tells us stuff but the dramatic beats are all terrible. 

There should have been weight to Yennefer's decision. A pause when she says, "I don't care, take it, do what you want just make me beautiful" in light of the doctor's warning. There wasn't. There should have been another beat when she was beautiful, where maybe she went off and cried, feeling hollow, realizing it wasn't enough. And another beat where the baby died and she realized how very much she wanted one of her own. Etc.

The show gives us none of that. We're supposed to take what it gives us and figure it out.

And yes, I hate that Yen takes ZERO responsibility for a choice she not only made, and doubled down on, but a choice that she pretty much forced the doctor to enact for her (who did not want to do so). So all this bullshit about her not having a choice is ludicrous and demeans the character and her journey. How much more moving for her to instead realize she made a mistake? Or to give us more moments where the secret (that she cannot believe she is loved even when she is) come back to haunt her?

I would argue that the other mage loved her even when she was homely (although I loved her look and thought she was beautiful). I would argue that Iss loved her. I did buy her desperation to save the baby, but also bought her finding solace that it hadn't lived to experience her own pain or the cruelty of the world. (But it could have been better expressed.) And now Geralt loves her (although I can't see why). She just can't and won't accept love and that's her real tragedy.

On 12/26/2019 at 8:48 PM, Zuleikha said:

Yennefer's problem is that she doesn't love herself. Until she does, she'll always believe she's not worthy of love and push away those who could love her. IMHO, that's part of why she's rewritten her history to ignore how much of a choice she made. Sure, she didn't have choices about every aspect. She couldn't have not become a mage. But she made a lot of choices once that was her fate (and it's not like she preferred to stay caring for pigs in her abusive home).

This. It would be a richer story of more of Yen's story beats directly dealt with her inability to see and accept love (but her self-hatred blinds her). I mean, her mother obviously loved her. Iss loved her. Hot Mage Guy loved her (flaws and all). Her issues being constantly boiled down to Baby Madness feel so misogynistic and simplistic to me. It's frustrating and upsetting, honestly.

On 12/28/2019 at 6:34 PM, nodorothyparker said:

I'm going to need the evil Black Knight guy to pick a motivation, and if you're going to talk and talk some more about how the White Flame is pushing you to do this or that, maybe clue us in who or what exactly the White Flame is.  Oh, and the fight with the doppler?  You'll never match Bruce Campbell fighting himself any of the times he did it.

This. I'm so confused. But the actor has tons of charisma, even if I have no idea what he is actually seeking or what his motivation is.

On 1/1/2020 at 11:12 AM, Jack Shaftoe said:

Honestly, the whole show so far feels rushed and disjointed because the writers tried to give a lot of screen time to each of the three protagonists in many different timelines. Lots of years have passed but Yen still acts like a spoiled teenager too often, Geralt is still way too gruff with Jaskier and can't seem to make up his mind if he wants him around or not. On the other hand, Ciri's storyline has moved very little since episode one.

100% on this. 

On 1/2/2020 at 6:58 AM, Danny Franks said:

And, Yen? You took your choice. The wizard guy was quite clear about what it would cost you. Again, if you want to have a child so badly, adopt one. There are probably thousands of needy orphans, in a world like this. I get it, her and Geralt are both sad little puppies, lost in the vagaries of meaningless existence, and now they're tied together they'll probably spend all that existence torturing one another.

I always find there's something very sad about dragons - a sense of a world passing away, because they always seem to be dying out. Even when they're not sapient animals, like they apparently are in this world.

This, this, this. If she wants someone to love her unconditionally, for god's sakes, she should adopt a kid. Or, hey, first, a cat or dog. A loving pet could have changed Yen's entire storyline, dammit.

And I agree on dragons. Sniffle. Dragon Age conveys this really beautifully. And with 100% less sexism.

On 1/4/2020 at 3:08 PM, tennisgurl said:

I liked this episode a lot, possibly because it was kind of like one of my DnD campaigns come to life! The party meets at a tavern, you have a bunch of classic DnD archetypes (dwarf fighter, cleric, bard, etc) you get a mission, there are several twists and turns, it was a lot of fun.

I adore D&D and love that you made this connection with the story! Please, please tell me you are watching "Critical Role" on YouTube. Because OH MY GOD. Love.

On 1/9/2020 at 2:36 PM, DearEvette said:

She was the one whose hand withered during the Sorceress School Magic 101 class.  And during Career Placement day, she was assigned to Yennefer's hometown while Yennefer was originally selected to go Nilfgaard.  But then Yennefer came in with her perfect 10 dance moves and got the hometown assignment instead.  So Fringilla was given Nilfgaard.

This is an example of the show cutting corners on major characters. First off, WHEN DID SHE HEAL HER HAND? Secondly, a few earlier scenes would have helped us to see her as more than a plot placeholder. Gah. And honestly, I still don't know what her POV is despite the monologuing.

But that goes for most of the characters on this show for me.

Edited January 13, 2020 by paramitch
missed word

[TaurusRose]

On 1/4/2020 at 6:08 PM, tennisgurl said:

That one dumb ass knight that Yennefer brought along was so inept, and so clearly unware of what kind of story this is, I knew he wasnt going to last very long. Like, congrats dude, you killed a starving and helpless creature, look out we got a badass here! 

I really hated him when he killed that creature and thought his humiliating death was exactly what he deserved.

Whoever is going around saying that Witchers dont feel emotions is clearly either very misinformed or a big fat liar, because, while Geralt is certainly rather stoic, he clearly feels all of the feels, all of the time. If anything, he sometimes struggles with controlling the feels. I mean, he was so pissed off and hurt about Yennefer yelling about how their connection was a lie, that he even pushed Jaskier, his best friend even if he wont admit it, away! Now I guess its just him and Roach.

Totally agree with you about Geralt having very strong emotions.  But I'm delighted he pushed his "best friend" away.  Now would he please stay gone?  I can't stand that character.  He is beyond annoying.  Truth be told, I prefer the horse.  Roach  infinitely more likable and doesn't run off at the mouth nonstop whenever he appears on screen.

[Rahul]

This show has an issue with "telling" too much and not "showing" nearly enough. I have no idea if or whether Yen and Geralt continued to see one another over the years or if their encounter in Rinde was their last. I have no idea how Fringilla ended up as a bloodthirsty religious zealot or what this White Flame is, but it all feels very Red Lady/Lord of Light Game of Thrones-y to me.  

I gather Ciri will be central to the upcoming plot, but I'm over the snooze fest of her current storyline. I'll take Geralt and his beast-of-the-week or Yennifer and her saucy sorceress dealings any day of the week over a little girl with a magical shriek.

[Rockstar99435]

On 1/13/2020 at 9:48 AM, paramitch said:

This is an example of the show cutting corners on major characters. First off, WHEN DID SHE HEAL HER HAND? 

I assumed her hand was fixed when she did her Get-Hot-Ritual, just like Yen's back and face was fixed. There was also the one girl whose face was cut up by the lightning in a bottle exploding, but her scars were gone at the fancy party.

I just started watching the show and I haven't read the books or played the game, so I am confused about the Law of Suprise bond. I thought that Law of Surprise thing meant that Geralt and the child would be soulmates, but they were talking in this episode like he was some kind of deadbeat dad for leaving. In the earlier episode, the Porcupine guy said something about he wasn't planing on claiming Parvati because of his curse but then they accidently met and fell in love. He didn't seem like he had done something wrong by not being there when she was a child or that he had done something wrong by being in a romantic relationship with her. So if it's not too spoilery, what's the deal with Law of Surprise when the suprise is a child? Is it supposed to be a parent/child bond or a romantic bond? Are they going to be able to sense each other or feel each other's pain? If one of them dies, does the other die?

[Morrigan2575]

9 hours ago, Rockstar99435 said:

Is it supposed to be a parent/child bond or a romantic bond? Are they going to be able to sense each other or feel each other's pain? If one of them dies, does the other die

I don't think it's a one size fits all. What Duny/Pavetta ended up feeling (romantic love) doesn't mean that's what Law of Surprise means for all child surprise. 

In the show the implication is that it means Destiny, they are linked in some way. For Duny/Pavetta they fell in love. For Geralt/Ciri it could mean anything, I believe they define their relationship, not the child surprise. 

 

[Kasienka]

I awlays interpreted it as Law of Surprise linking their destinies together, but what kind of bond they will share depends on the people involved. Duny and Pavetta fell in love, with Geralt and Ciri it seems more like a mentor/father relationship. After all you never know what you get.

[Rockstar99435]

Thanks!