S04.E09: 409 Conflict

[mxc90]

Quote

First Aired: December 1, 2019

fsociety v deus group.

Source: https://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/mr-robot/episode-9-season-4/409-conflict/678250/

[mxc90]

Finally! Christmas is over! 

I would have thought Whiterose was keeping tabs on Wellick and knew he was missing.

Price was talking way too much shit to Whiterose. I thought he was going to get popped much earlier. Anyway, see ya Price! 

If the president is in town, there shouldn't be any way that group of people is that close to Cipriani. Or Secret service would have noticed Darlene across the street with the device controlling the parking gate.

Shouldn't Whiterose shoot himself and not be taken alive by the FBI? Isn't that the Dark Army code?

What is he next step for Elliot and Darlene (with 4 episodes to go)? Will there be consequences for their actions?

Darlene is the key to bringing out the 3rd person. Hurry up! They are dragging this way too long!

Edited December 2, 2019 by mxc90

[Zoe]

2 hours ago, mxc90 said:

If the president is in town, there shouldn't be any way that group of people is that close to Cipriani. Or Secret service would have noticed Darlene across the street with the device controlling the parking gate.

It's still 2015.

[hnygrl]

And "plot armor." Thinking of it that way (come on. She's freaking hacking in the open on a crowded street and nobody noticed?) Makes it easier to swallow. 

Expected Price's death, though I figured he'd off  himself. 

Overall,  even with the plot armor?  Very satisfying. Extremely satisfying episode. 

Ya know? I'm beginning to believe that we really haven't met ELLIOT  Elliot yet. I  think the sad sack in the hoodie might be the boss alter...

I'm remembering back in season one when Angela told him he was only 6 months old. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by hnygrl

[mxc90]

4 hours ago, Zoe said:

It's still 2015.

Thank you.

[Guest]

Thank god Darlene doesn't suffer from fat fingers or that hack would have taken three days. (I can barely type out a one-line text without fat fingering at least three words that need to be corrected.)

Great episode though. 

5 hours ago, hnygrl said:

Ya know? I'm beginning to believe that we really haven't met ELLIOT  Elliot yet. I  think the sad sack in the hoodie might be the boss alter...

I think you're right about that.

[truthaboutluv]

Well considering we have four more episodes to go, I have to think Elliot and Whiterose's battle isn't entirely over. Not sure how, since they made it seem like his and Darlene's hack wiped Whiterose out or at the least got FBI to her door but I have to believe, someone as smart and powerful as Whiterose had some type of backup/contingency plan. 

I liked Elliot calling Whiterose out on her shit she pulled on Angela. He should have told her, "listen, you're too late. I'm already fucked up, so can't mess with my mind anymore". Dude has at least three other personalities living in his head. 

It was interesting seeing that Darlene can recognize an alter once in awhile. The minute Mr. Robot said the sweetheart line, I thought, "she has to know that's not Elliot". I've already seen some quibbling online that Darlene and Elliot pulling off a hack this big in the way they did is slightly unrealistic, but you know what, I don't care. 

As someone noted above, it was deeply satisfying seeing the smug wiped off Whiterose's face for once, to see her flustered and panicked and not so cool and unbothered. Price was giving me life and yeah he bit it in the end, as I'm sure he expected but hell, what a way to go. Whiterose's ego defeated her. She should have listened to her assistant. 

7 hours ago, hnygrl said:

Ya know? I'm beginning to believe that we really haven't met ELLIOT  Elliot yet. I  think the sad sack in the hoodie might be the boss alter...

Interesting theory. I can see this. From the opening scene, it's obvious there is so much Elliot is unaware of. And the fact that Mr. Robot kept referring to his "waking up" and noted that he “woke up” for Darlene. I guess assuming said alter or real Elliot or whoever, was who Darlene spoke to about seeing Vera. 

We know Elliot was hospitalized in a mental hospital before the series started. Who knows how bad the break down was and yeah, he could have disassociated again completely and has been buried inside ever since, replaced by the hoodie wearing hacker version of himself. The more I write this, the more I'm actually kind of liking this theory. Hell it'd make more sense than saying Tyrell was his alter. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[patty1h]

I got really excited for a few minutes thinking that Angela was NOT dead, that Whiterose's men had staged it to look like they'd killed her and were keeping her as leverage against Price.   It was very hard to see Elliot and Price get hopeful, then to see that hope get ripped away.  

[Cardie]

I too like the theory that we have not yet met the fully integrated Elliot. There was also the suggestion that he did something so disturbing he is not yet capable of remembering it. Did he kill his dad?

[TVbitch]

I was just waiting for White Rose to yell... KAAAAAAHHHHHNNNN!!!!

[shapeshifter]

20 hours ago, mxc90 said:

If the president is in town,

It may be 2015, but shortly before the episode midpoint, they show one of the "top 1% of the top 1%" from behind who has a very distinctive hairstyle.
  
  

20 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Shouldn't Whiterose shoot himself and not be taken alive by the FBI? Isn't that the Dark Army code?

The sounds of assault rifles in the background implied that they weren't taking anyone alive. And I'm not sure who "they" were that were storming the palace.

But I did really appreciate that Elliot and Darlene's take down was with code, not guns. 
  
  

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

And I'm not sure who "they" were that were storming the palace.

It was the FBI. You could hear them announcing themselves as Whiterose was putting on her makeup. 

[scrb]

OK think about your online bank accounts.

Any transfers would be traceable, though who knows, maybe this Cypriot bank is shady and would allow transfers to other shady banks where Elliot transferred all that money to.

It would make more sense if he stole crypto currency, which can't be so easily traced.

For Americans, most banks will make you confirm the target account somehow and there's a period of time for this verification process to take place.

You can't just set up transfers to any random accounts, especially transfers overseas.

Now think about the fact that these are powerful and rich people who were victimized.  First of all, they wouldn't have all their wealth and assets in some single bank account.  Wouldn't be befitting these supposed arch villains.

Second, doubtful that all that wealth is protected by an apparently easily hacked password and an easily intercepted 2FA codes. 

Third, these people wouldn't just accept getting ripped off like that.  They'd go after the Cyprus bank and all the govenerments which regulate the banks.  Though it does sound like the FBI tries to arrest WR and there's a gunfight at his compound wth the DA.

But I would think he'd have diplomatic immunity (would it cover murder?) and if he's staying at an embassy or consulate, the FBI or any US entity couldn't enter the premise.  Would be considered an act of war.

Presumably, Minister Zhang has diplomatic community as a high level govt. official of the People's Republic of China?

Let's look past all this.  Presumably if WR isn't arrested or killed, he and the Deus Group would come after Elliot and his family and friends with a vengeance, to get their money back or just torture and kill him.

Edited December 3, 2019 by scrb

[Avaleigh]

This might not have been the most realistic episode but I enjoyed it. It was so nice to see Whiterose panicked and angry. She's lost control and is finally realizing that even she has to deal with the consequences of her actions. It's not so funny when she's the one getting a her hand slapped.

It was obvious that the death of Price was coming, but I thought he went out in a good way. I liked that he was briefly hopeful about Angela only to realize that he'll never get her back and anything Whiterose might offer would be totally poisonous. 

I thought it was weird that Whiterose doesn't realize that Tyrell is out of the picture. 

On 12/2/2019 at 2:32 AM, hnygrl said:

 Ya know? I'm beginning to believe that we really haven't met ELLIOT  Elliot yet. I  think the sad sack in the hoodie might be the boss alter...

I'm remembering back in season one when Angela told him he was only 6 months old.

When the bit about the key came up a couple of episodes ago, I remembered how the key was in the dream sequence where Angela tells Elliot that he is only six months old. Tyrell was the character holding the same key. I won't be surprised if more things from that dream sequence end up being mentioned again. Elliot's "monster" is mentioned in that dream sequence and that also got a mention a couple of episodes ago. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Avaleigh

[shapeshifter]

3 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

It was obvious that the death of Price was coming, but I thought he went out in a good way

Like father, like daughter, right? Both had death with dignity. 

[FRTNX]

Can anyone tell me why Darlene's exploit script had to be single threaded? It could have completed much faster if it were run on multiple threads. And why didn't she use fish on her mobile terminal (most likely termux), it has great features like auto complete which are a god-send for time critical ops (especially on a tiny mobile keyboard).

[Cthulhudrew]

On 12/1/2019 at 11:32 PM, hnygrl said:

Ya know? I'm beginning to believe that we really haven't met ELLIOT  Elliot yet. I  think the sad sack in the hoodie might be the boss alter...

That was my theory up until two episodes ago. I was convinced the big secret would be that the Elliot we've been following for four seasons is really just an alter himself (which would kind of be a bit of an FU in some ways, as he's the character we've all grown attached to). 

I changed my mind after the Krista/Elliot/Vera episode though, since it seemed like that reveal was too powerful a character moment to have happen to an alter rather than the main persona. But after the exchange at the beginning of this episode, now I'm back to wondering.

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

That was my theory up until two episodes ago. I was convinced the big secret would be that the Elliot we've been following for four seasons is really just an alter himself (which would kind of be a bit of an FU in some ways, as he's the character we've all grown attached to). 

I changed my mind after the Krista/Elliot/Vera episode though, since it seemed like that reveal was too powerful a character moment to have happen to an alter rather than the main persona. But after the exchange at the beginning of this episode, now I'm back to wondering.

 But in this episode Price describes Elliot to WhiteRose as “a little pipsqueak in a hoodie.”

[truthaboutluv]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

 But in this episode Price describes Elliot to WhiteRose as “a little pipsqueak in a hoodie.”

I don't think the theory is suggesting that the Elliot we've been seeing in a hoodie doesn't really exist. He does. But what some are saying is that this version of him is still an alter and that complete Elliot has not been present throughout the series. 

So yes, Price and company know Elliot Alderson, the hoodie wearing, socially anxious loner. And in many ways that's true to him, but still not completely him as a whole. Because again, at the start of the series, we did find out that Elliot had previously had a breakdown that was so bad he was hospitalized for a few months. We know how he completely forgot who Darlene was when she showed up. 

It's possible that Elliot never fully regained consciousness after his breakdown and the person we've been seeing is just another side of him, like his Mr. Robot alter. And real him showed up, for whatever reason and however briefly, when talking to Darlene some weeks earlier. Because again, keep in mind the whole four seasons of this show has apparently taken place in one year. 

[benteen]

Finally, an episode that delivered.  That was great and lived up to expectations.

Price was a goner but got to go out like a boss.  Michael Cristofer was always one of the very best things about this show and like Charles Dance or Jonathan Pryce, he's an actor I would watch regardless of what he's in.  It was great to finally see the smug look wiped from Whiterose's face.  The 80s-style score was awesome and epic.

[Chaos Theory]

Price said it himself.   He is a mercenary.  He would rather lose himself then see White Rose win.   Price chose his own ending.   He stood there and gave Elliot and Darlene the seconds they needed to complete their code and at the same time got in a few good jabs at White Rose.

”You didn’t  lose.  You just ran out of time.”

I am guessing to someone so obsessed with time that is the ultimate insult.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[tennisgurl]

That episode was great, and exactly what I wanted to see in an episode where Elliot and Darlene finally got one over on Whiterose, and got one over on her and her international cabal of rich assholes real good! 

I really did think, for just a second, that Angela might actually be alive, but much like Elliot and Price, I quickly realized that it was just another manipulation. I figured that Price was going to die this week, but he went out the best way he probably could at this point, with dignity and the knowledge that Whiterose had finally been hurt. Michael Cristofer was as excellent as he has always been, and this was a great farewell showcase for him. Plus, we finally got to see that smug smirk wiped off of all powerful all knowing Whiteroses face. 

"You didnt lose. You just ran out of time." Oh snap!

Edited December 3, 2019 by tennisgurl

[xaxat]

I really enjoyed this episode. It played out like a mini Soderbergh heist movie. I really liked how Price gave no fucks when he knew that Elliott had won. At that point, he knew that he had fulfilled Angela's dying wish. 

5 hours ago, benteen said:

Michael Cristofer was always one of the very best things about this show and like Charles Dance or Jonathan Pryce, he's an actor I would watch regardless of what he's in. 

I still miss Rubicon. (And I'm still not convinced Price isn't Truxton Spangler under another name.)

17 hours ago, scrb said:

Any transfers would be traceable, though who knows, maybe this Cypriot bank is shady and would allow transfers to other shady banks where Elliot transferred all that money to.

Up until a couple of years ago, Cypriot banks were notorious havens for money laundering. They were the favorites for Russian oligarchs. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by xaxat

[qtpye]

17 hours ago, xaxat said:

I really enjoyed this episode. It played out like a mini Soderbergh heist movie. I really liked how Price gave no fucks when he knew that Elliott had won. At that point, he knew that he had fulfilled Angela's dying wish. 

I still miss Rubicon. (And I'm still not convinced Price isn't Truxton Spangler under another name.)

Up until a couple of years ago, Cypriot banks were notorious havens for money laundering. They were the favorites for Russian oligarchs. 

Again, White Rose is supposed to be this criminal mastermind genius that is head of the world's most power organization, the Deus Group.

Yet, she does not understand little things like, killing Angela basically assures that Phillip has not longer any fucks to give. Price is an older man who no longer enjoys any of his immense wealth or privilege. He just wanted a human connection with a daughter and that would hold tremendous leverage and get him do do all of White Rose's bidding.

Having Angela alive and kidnapping Darlene, when she had the chance, would also give him great leverage over Elliot. Heck, we could devote several episodes to Darlene and Angela figuring out a way to escape out of White Rose's clutches, since quite frankly, they both would be way too valuable to kill.

I wonder if the Dark Army got their solders to commit suicide rather than be captured so easily because they assured them that everyone would be "resurrected" by White Rose's ultra special machine? 

White Rose might have not killed herself because the machine was no longer working and she knew she could not come back.

[shapeshifter]

23 hours ago, benteen said:

Price was a goner but got to go out like a boss.  Michael Cristofer was always one of the very best things about this show and like Charles Dance or Jonathan Pryce, he's an actor I would watch regardless of what he's in.  It was great to finally see the smug look wiped from Whiterose's face.  The 80s-style score was awesome and epic.

I had to quote this^ post just because it bears repeating LOL. Totally what I was thinking. I love Michael Cristofer's acting, and I loved Rubicon, and I appreciate that he was given a worthy vehicle in this show.

18 hours ago, xaxat said:

I still miss Rubicon. (And I'm still not convinced Price isn't Truxton Spangler under another name.)

 Ha! Exactly what I was thinking during Price's scenes.
  

 
  

22 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Price said it himself.   He is a mercenary.  He would rather lose himself then see White Rose win.   Price chose his own ending.   He stood there and gave Elliot and Darlene the seconds they needed to complete their code and at the same time got in a few good jabs at White Rose.

”You didn’t  lose.  You just ran out of time.”

I am guessing to someone so obsessed with time that is the ultimate insult.

Yes. Thanks for recapping these points. I was at less than full consciousness when watching, but I did notice the emphasis/double entendre on Price's line about how WhiteRose "just ran out of time."
  
  

  
  

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Again, White Rose is supposed to be this criminal mastermind genius that is head of the world's most power organization, the Deus Group.

Yet, she does not understand little things like, killing Angela basically assures that Phillip has not longer any fucks to give. Price is an older man who no longer enjoys any of his immense wealth or privilege. He just wanted a human connection with a daughter and that would hold tremendous leverage and get him do do all of White Rose's bidding.

Having Angela alive and kidnapping Darlene, when she had the chance, would also give him great leverage over Elliot. Heck, we could devote several episodes to Darlene and Angela figuring out a way to escape out of White Rose's clutches, since quite frankly, they both would be way too valuable to kill.

I wonder if the Dark Army got their solders to commit suicide rather than be captured so easily because they assured them that everyone would be "resurrected" by White Rose's ultra special machine? 

White Rose might have not killed herself because the machine was no longer working and she knew she could not come back.

As you point out, @qtpye, WhiteRose made a lot of mistakes, which makes her take-down believable, which in turn makes the success of Elliot and Darlene more believable, which I appreciate --rather than populating the show with supervillain vs superhero. 

Edited December 4, 2019 by shapeshifter
conciseness?

[Anela]

I didn't watch Rubicon, but whenever I see that stylish "santa" picture that's been circulating, I think it looks a bit like Price.

I like that Price got White Rose outside long enough for Darlene to get what she needed. I figured that was what he was doing. I also briefly hoped that White Rose was telling the truth about Angela, but of course she wasn't. 

[DoctorAtomic]

On 12/2/2019 at 12:32 AM, hnygrl said:

Ya know? I'm beginning to believe that we really haven't met ELLIOT  Elliot yet. I  think the sad sack in the hoodie might be the boss alter...

I could roll with that. It's a good twist and I don't think one could really call bs on it.

Could it be that the kid is the 'real' Elliot?

But ugh, I could barely get through the first act with Darlene asking relevant and necessary questions, especially relating to Angela, and Mr Robot being oblique. It's a tired and hack tactic to manufacture drama and fill time.

On 12/2/2019 at 7:53 AM, Cardie said:

Did he kill his dad?

I thought the dad had a heart attack in the movie theater?

Did Rose even know Price was Angela's father? It seems like he would have used that.

Finally something relevant happened. I feel like it's been over a month.

I've said before, I don't think we'll ever know what the 'project' is. I think that's a good move to never spell it out.

Wow Rose lost her *shit* to gun down Price right on the stairs.

Edited December 8, 2019 by DoctorAtomic

[Cardie]

7 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I thought the dad had a heart attack in the movie theater?

I don’t trust any of Elliot’s childhood memories at this point. 

[Slovenly Muse]

Ok, here is a half-baked theory I've been working on.

Forgive me, this show is so dense with backstory that it is hard to remember what we have learned already with regards to Elliot and his family's connection to ECorp. I'm struggling to recall details, but maybe you can help me put the pieces together: 

After this episode, I kept thinking about the boardroom scene and asking myself, why a boardroom? It was such an incongruous setting for their conversation. Wouldn't Elliot's subconscious be more likely to place the projections of his family in a domestic setting? Does Elliot's family have corporate connections that he's buried with his memories? Why else would he associate his family with a boardroom? I started wondering about other things we've learned or revisited this season:

- Elliot's bedroom key is shaped like the ECorp logo
- Price was ECorp's CEO and Angela's father
- Angela and Elliot were very close childhood friends

Could Elliot's father (or mother - we know so little about her) have been a founder of ECorp? Was the computer repair business a stepping stone to a tech startup? Did Price and Alderson work together (one handling tech, the other, business?), and that's why Elliot and Angela met and spent so much time together? (Presumeably, Angela stayed close to the Alderson family after her father abandoned her for his work.)

If this is the case, then ECorp could well be named after Elliot. It would be right in line with the type of grand gestures that abusers use to make their victims feel "special." Then the substitution of "EvilCorp" in Elliot's mind would be an expression of the guilt, shame, and loathing (self-loathing?) that can come with abuse. It could also explain the shape of the bedroom key, as ECorp was used by Mr. Alderson symbolically as a tool to gain and maintain access to Elliot. Is this a show about Elliot's attempt to destroy his family's legacy, something that was done in his name? This would also mean the Aldersons likely have longstanding connections to Whiterose and her project. What happened in Washington Township must be related to what "he" did (whoever and whatever that will turn out to be).

Have we seen other details to support or refute this idea? What am I forgetting?

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, Slovenly Muse said:

Have we seen other details to support or refute this idea? What am I forgetting?

I don't know about ECorp being created or owned by Elliot's family and named after him (it's an interesting theory) but yes, we have had confirmation of Elliot's father having worked for ECorp and having worked with Whiterose herself, maybe not directly. 

There is a scene in I believe Season 2, may have been Season 3, when Whiterose is discussing needing Elliot even though he was becoming a nuisance and liability to her, since he kept waking up, realizing what Mr. Robot had agreed to do and trying to undo it.

In that conversation, Whiterose makes a statement of dealing with Elliot until they don't need him anymore, like they did with his father. It's also why many viewers suspected that whatever the Washington Township project was, it led to Angela's mother and Elliot's dad both becoming sick with cancer. Since that's how they both died.

And if we remember, there was reference to a class action lawsuit that had been brought against the project, in the first season. Angela even revisited the attorney who'd worked on the lawsuit. It's also why she went to work with ECorp, because she was hoping to find something on them, while working there, to bring them down. 

All this to say that yes, it's always been suggested, if not outright stated, that part of Elliot's vendetta against ECorp, is personal. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[AudienceofOne]

Mr. Robot: not letting their plan for bringing the Big Bad down interfere with correctly gendering her.

I loved almost everything about this episode, however far-fetched. Up to and including Price's badass death and Elliot's "if I didn't go through these things I wouldn't be me" revelation from last episode causing him to dismiss Whiterose's "there are no consequences, everything can be wiped clean" offer. Everything felt like a culmination and that's just really good writing.