S02.E06: The Mother

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2019.11.13

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A familiar face arrives in Castle Rock.

[phoenix780]

So I told myself after last week, "Moderate your expectations, because they can't do another episode as great but it can still be good." But damn. This show is perfect for me. 

I love that the characters aren't stupid for the sake of making the story last longer. I love that the last sequence was extremely tense to watch because there were so many possible terrible outcomes. I think I love that I have to wait a week in between shows, so I can savor an episode while anticipating the next. I enjoy that it's driven by realistic drama with a hint of supernatural. 

And the acting...beyond. 

I'm probably a little over-the-top in my fandom at this point. I just feel like it's been years since I've watched such a tight, well-crafted story that isn't...there's no sense that I'm supposed to like this show because it's Good Television, it's just good television. It's nice.

[Starchild]

I never thought I could feel sympathy for Annie Wilkes.

[Paloma]

7 hours ago, Starchild said:

I never thought I could feel sympathy for Annie Wilkes.

I did feel a little sympathy for her even before the big revelation, because of her mental illness and efforts to control it in order to take care of "her" child. I also originally suspected that she took the child from an abusive man and had killed the abuser, either accidentally or on purpose, which would have made her actions more understandable and maybe even forgivable. But stabbing Rita and taking the baby in a jealous rage (with the intention of killing the baby), while possibly understandable given Annie's state of mind, could not be forgiven, nor could her keeping the child for all those years even after she found out that Rita had survived. Rita did not do anything to deserve the hell that Annie put her through. Even if Annie felt that she had to keep the child, she could have found a way to send a message to Rita to let her know that the child was taken care of and loved. I understand that her paranoia kept her from doing that, but it is hard for me to feel sympathy for Annie as a result of all of this.

One thing that was not clear--was the "tall man" that has been haunting her actually the ghost of her father? When we first saw her father in flashback, I thought he looked like the tall man, but my husband did not. Then after she killed her father, the blood pattern on his face looked like the pattern on the tall man's face. But it seemed that the tall man was dressed in old-fashioned clothing and a hat rather than the way her father dressed; however, I did not look closely at the tall man's outfit so may be wrong about that. 

[tennisgurl]

Maybe its wrong, but I feel bad for everything in this whole situation. Obviously Rita is the most wronged party, having her life basically ruined and losing her whole family in one day and has now apparently been killed trying to get revenge and find her daughter, followed by Joy, who must feel so terribly betrayed, confused, and conflicted finding out the truth about her past. But I cant help but feel sorry for Annie, despite the horrible things that she did. She was/is such a mess of a person, and she loves Joy so much, its hard for me not to feel sad for her and the person she could have been under better circumstances. 

So the vampires are more like ghosts possessing bodies of people? And they want Annie as the host for their leader? Good luck with that buddy, Annie isnt going down without a fight! 

[Paloma]

7 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So the vampires are more like ghosts possessing bodies of people? And they want Annie as the host for their leader? Good luck with that buddy, Annie isnt going down without a fight! 

After the female bartender escaped (though she was ultimately brought back by the vampires), Ace and the pastor were talking about how she survived whatever the process is that changes them. I forget which one of them said this, but it was because she was taking antidepressants that affect her brain and prevented the process from fully taking effect. If Annie has been taking her antipsychotic meds, they are likely to have an even greater protective effect against the process, in addition to her strong will.

[Starchild]

8 hours ago, Paloma said:

One thing that was not clear--was the "tall man" that has been haunting her actually the ghost of her father? When we first saw her father in flashback, I thought he looked like the tall man, but my husband did not. Then after she killed her father, the blood pattern on his face looked like the pattern on the tall man's face. But it seemed that the tall man was dressed in old-fashioned clothing and a hat rather than the way her father dressed; however, I did not look closely at the tall man's outfit so may be wrong about that. 

I think it was her father, but dressed as the main character from the book he was writing, which was clearly based in an earlier time period. With Annie's penchant for mixing up reality with her favourite books, it was a nice callback to Misery I thought.

And these aren't vampires right? They're the coven that was supposedly destroyed on the land the new mall will occupy.

[Paloma]

5 hours ago, Starchild said:

I think it was her father, but dressed as the main character from the book he was writing, which was clearly based in an earlier time period. With Annie's penchant for mixing up reality with her favourite books, it was a nice callback to Misery I thought.

That makes sense--thanks!

5 hours ago, Starchild said:

And these aren't vampires right? They're the coven that was supposedly destroyed on the land the new mall will occupy.

Based on things said in earlier episodes, I thought that a coven of witches was destroyed there, and when we first saw the coffins (when Annie fell in to the pit while burying Ace), I assumed those were the witches' coffins. But now I'm not sure what type of supernatural creatures  were buried there and are now killing and taking over people's bodies. In typical genre fiction, people can be bitten (killed) by vampires and come back to life, but I didn't think witches had that power. Besides, they don't seem to be biting people, and the slimy soup the victims are put in to be reanimated doesn't clearly fit with any type of supernatural creature I can think of (though I guess if they are witches it could be their cauldron--"Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn and caldron bubble."

Edited November 15, 2019 by Paloma
Had to look up the lines from Macbeth

[foxfreakinmulder]

Such a good episode. I like this season more than season 1.

[texassunflower]

This was another really good episode. Annie taking Joy ruined three lives. Rita became an alcoholic and drug addict due to grief and worry. Annie always being on the run, never being able to settle down and find her laughing place, and not receiving proper medical care for her schizophrenia. Joy for being isolated, moving from place to place, and having to care for a mentally unstable mother. I hate that Rita is dead and never got to know her daughter. I know the story needs a subplot but I don't care about the vampires or whatever the creatures may be. Everytime they are on screen, I think " Hurry up! Get back to Annie and Joy." This season has been so good.

I finally placed Rita. She was in Stephen King' s 11/22/63. 

[TheLotusFlower]

2 hours ago, texassunflower said:

I finally placed Rita. She was in Stephen King' s 11/22/63. 

Oh my goodness!!  I couldn't remember for the life of me where I knew her from.  I loved Sadie on 11/22/63, but I hate Rita, so it's like my mind simply didn't want to connect the two.  I know I should feel sorry for Rita, but I don't.  I'm not very sympathetic toward people who have affairs with married folks. And it certainly works both ways, I can't stand Annie's father either.  I feel like he got what he deserved.

[Paloma]

9 hours ago, TheLotusFlower said:

I know I should feel sorry for Rita, but I don't.  I'm not very sympathetic toward people who have affairs with married folks. And it certainly works both ways, I can't stand Annie's father either.  I feel like he got what he deserved.

I'm not sure of the timing--I know that Annie's father was attracted to Rita early on, but did they start an affair while he was still living with Annie's mother? I thought maybe it started after they separated but before Annie's mother drove the car into the river.

I also don't have much sympathy for people who cheat, but in this case I felt that Rita was a good person who was trying her best to help Annie and did not want to hurt her. I also don't feel that Annie's father was a terrible person--he loved Annie and wanted to help her, but he had mental issues of his own (the reference to being able to write better after he stopped taking lithium). 

[Lily H]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 11:20 PM, Starchild said:

I never thought I could feel sympathy for Annie Wilkes.

Absolutely no sympathy from me. Annie deserves life in prison and never to see or hear from her half-sister again. She's a dangerous lunatic.

[For Cereals]

I would almost rather focus on the story of Annie without the supernatural as well. While I don’t feel sorry for Annie, it matches the theme of the show (that they seem to want to beat us over the head with) well that things are not black and white both literally and figuratively.  

I’m hoping Rita isn’t dead.  

Not Ace seems to think Annie has some power, maybe in addition to seeing her dad and the character in his book, she’s also having a vision of someone in the coven, maybe Not Ace’s former self?

[Cheezwiz]

7 hours ago, For Cereals said:

I would almost rather focus on the story of Annie without the supernatural as well. While I don’t feel sorry for Annie, it matches the theme of the show (that they seem to want to beat us over the head with) well that things are not black and white both literally and figuratively.  

I feel the same - the Annie & Joy story is so compelling, that I don't care as much about the supernatural stuff (which is usually my favourite kind of thing), and I really don't care much at all about Pop Merrill, Abdi and Nadia and their not terribly interesting family drama.

I will say that Tim Robbins does have an awesome Maine accent down pat, so I will miss that whenever he inevitably exits the show.

I can't figure out what these vampire creatures are supposed to be. And why are they Francais?

[archer1267]

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I can't figure out what these vampire creatures are supposed to be. And why are they Francais?

Since it's Maine, I'm guessing that the earliest settlers - the people who came there 400 years ago - were Acadians, or French Canadians. 

This was an intense episode! I was hoping that Joy/Evangeline would leave with Rita, but I guess that would have been unrealistic, considering that Annie's the only "mom" she's known her whole life, and the evil that you know and all that. Still, I hope that Rita lives - it would be too cruel of an ending for her.

[TexasGal]

I guess we had clues before that Ace wasn’t really himself - he was practicing saying something in a mirror at some point - but it didn’t really hit me until this week that they are being reborn as different people.  We also initially saw people being goo’ed up in a tub, but this week they were in coffins.  

I also hope Rita pulls through.  Although, it will be interesting to see how the reincarnation vamps can get to Annie if she’s in jail for shooting Rita. 

[Paloma]

3 hours ago, TexasGal said:

I also hope Rita pulls through.  Although, it will be interesting to see how the reincarnation vamps can get to Annie if she’s in jail for shooting Rita. 

One of the first people Ace killed/reanimated was a local sheriff or cop who pulled Ace over, so he could probably get access to anyone in jail.

[azshadowwalker]

I was just fine with Annie's dad getting offed. He lived off her mother so he could chase his dreams, refused to help his daughter because of his own hang-ups, then moved out and started fucking a younger woman who flattered him while his daughter was left with a sad, broken mother. He was trash, and Rita knew what he was putting his family through, but didn't care. I had far more sympathy for Annie and even her mother than either of them. 

[akroll16]

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On 11/15/2019 at 12:17 AM, TheLotusFlower said:

Oh my goodness!!  I couldn't remember for the life of me where I knew her from.  I loved Sadie on 11/22/63, but I hate Rita, so it's like my mind simply didn't want to connect the two.  I know I should feel sorry for Rita, but I don't.  I'm not very sympathetic toward people who have affairs with married folks. And it certainly works both ways, I can't stand Annie's father either.  I feel like he got what he deserved.

She was also the lead on Alias Grace, another really good mini series on Netflix. 

[Ilovepie]

17 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

I was just fine with Annie's dad getting offed. He lived off her mother so he could chase his dreams, refused to help his daughter because of his own hang-ups, then moved out and started fucking a younger woman who flattered him while his daughter was left with a sad, broken mother. He was trash, and Rita knew what he was putting his family through, but didn't care. I had far more sympathy for Annie and even her mother than either of them. 

 As a child of divorce whose father remarried and started a second family, I can certainly relate to Annie feeling like she was being replaced. It was especially cruel of Rita because she knew how isolated Annie was and how attached she was to her father, and I lost any sympathy for her/them when they moved her into the attic without a thought for her feelings. The book dedication was just the final straw.

I am with everyone who finds Annie & Joy more compelling than the not-vampire story line. I'm not sure how that is going to resolve as they keep adding to their numbers, but maybe there is a limit to how many hosts they need based on how many ghosts there are?

I was kind of surprised that Ace's brother whose name escapes me did not try to kill or turn Nadia when she came to talk to him........

It's kind of jarring to see Ken Cosgrove as an evil possessed pastor..........

Either way, this season of Castle Rock is vying with Handmaid's Tale Season 1 as the best Hulu original I've seen - I am absolutely loving it!

[Paloma]

5 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I was kind of surprised that Ace's brother whose name escapes me did not try to kill or turn Nadia when she came to talk to him........

That surprised me, too. Could it be a hint that he is not fully changed or still retains a bit of the good person in him? Or maybe they just don't need or want her particular body.

[archer1267]

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One thing that was not clear--was the "tall man" that has been haunting her actually the ghost of her father? 

Yes. I've looked for a still of the tall man, and her father was wearing that same hat at the backyard party where he announced the publication of his book. He also had worn that same sweater/cardigan in different scenes.

[ferjy]

On 11/18/2019 at 4:49 PM, Ilovepie said:

<snip>

Either way, this season of Castle Rock is vying with Handmaid's Tale Season 1 as the best Hulu original I've seen - I am absolutely loving it!

Guess it’s a matter of preference but I’m not liking it at all this season. Season one was eerie and mysterious and I liked the characters so much but I just can’t get into these characters. Nor the storylines (too many of them, for one thing). I loved season one (until they segued to the awful twist and ending), but this season it seems like they’re going for shock value more (the ice cream scoop, for instance). And the father remarrying and child feeling left out storyline is so old. The vampire storyline isn’t far behind in tired old plot lines. The first season was more original. The magic of the series is gone for me.

Edited November 20, 2019 by ferjy

[Ilovepie]

2 hours ago, ferjy said:

Guess it’s a matter of preference but I’m not liking it at all this season. Season one was eerie and mysterious and I liked the characters so much but I just can’t get into these characters. Nor the storylines (too many of them, for one thing). I loved season one (until they segued to the awful twist and ending), but this season it seems like they’re going for shock value more (the ice cream scoop, for instance). And the father remarrying and child feeling left out storyline is so old. The vampire storyline isn’t far behind in tired old plot lines. The first season was more original. The magic of the series is gone for me.

I think your first sentence says it all - it's just a matter of preference. For me, the first season dragged on aimlessly and the ending was really a non-ending; of course I have no idea if this season will end the same, but I just think the story is tighter and the characters more engaging. My husband and I are keeping up with it whereas the first season took us months to slog through. It felt like a chore to finish it for us. Obviously, this is just my opinion.  And the father remarrying and child feeling left out is something that many people (myself included -see my whole post!) can relate to unfortunately. I thought it was a good way to humanize Annie. As far as the shock value, the first season had it as well - remember the massacre in the prison or the one-off where the B&B couple lose their minds? I guess it doesn't bother me because this is billed as a horror show so there is an expectation that there will be some shocks. I am sorry it's not working for you though! At least it's more like an anthology series - maybe you will like the next season better? (If there is one!)

[ferjy]

3 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I think your first sentence says it all - it's just a matter of preference. For me, the first season dragged on aimlessly and the ending was really a non-ending; of course I have no idea if this season will end the same, but I just think the story is tighter and the characters more engaging. My husband and I are keeping up with it whereas the first season took us months to slog through. It felt like a chore to finish it for us. Obviously, this is just my opinion.  And the father remarrying and child feeling left out is something that many people (myself included -see my whole post!) can relate to unfortunately. I thought it was a good way to humanize Annie. As far as the shock value, the first season had it as well - remember the massacre in the prison or the one-off where the B&B couple lose their minds? I guess it doesn't bother me because this is billed as a horror show so there is an expectation that there will be some shocks. I am sorry it's not working for you though! At least it's more like an anthology series - maybe you will like the next season better? (If there is one!)

Absolutely. We're at opposite perspectives for both season one and season two. Although this season isn't over yet, maybe something will strike me before it's over!

[nekilarose]

I know it's wrong, but when they showed who was shot, and where, I cracked up. Poor Rita was probably like "WTF, again!?" 

I feel like the whole Pop and Nadia \Abdi storyline is leading up to Pop making himself a sacrifice or something to save everyone, and thus repaying his 'debt'. 

[TheLotusFlower]

On 11/17/2019 at 11:09 PM, azshadowwalker said:

I was just fine with Annie's dad getting offed. He lived off her mother so he could chase his dreams, refused to help his daughter because of his own hang-ups, then moved out and started fucking a younger woman who flattered him while his daughter was left with a sad, broken mother. He was trash, and Rita knew what he was putting his family through, but didn't care. I had far more sympathy for Annie and even her mother than either of them. 

Thank you!  My thoughts exactly.

[Clanstarling]

On 11/17/2019 at 1:16 PM, Paloma said:

One of the first people Ace killed/reanimated was a local sheriff or cop who pulled Ace over, so he could probably get access to anyone in jail.

Though the episode ended before you could see the cops, I expect that the "turned" cop is the one showing up. I think Ace/Pere Augustin must be keeping an eye on Annie if she's so important to him. (haven't seen the next episode, so I could well be wrong)

Edited December 1, 2019 by Clanstarling

[mrsh]

On 11/14/2019 at 9:17 PM, TheLotusFlower said:

Oh my goodness!!  I couldn't remember for the life of me where I knew her from.  I loved Sadie on 11/22/63, but I hate Rita, so it's like my mind simply didn't want to connect the two.  I know I should feel sorry for Rita, but I don't.  I'm not very sympathetic toward people who have affairs with married folks. And it certainly works both ways, I can't stand Annie's father either.  I feel like he got what he deserved.

Glad ita not just me who disliked Rita. The affair itself isn't what made me dislike her, but the fact that she knew Annie had issues and was working hard to overcome them. Then Rita comes in under the guise of helping her and instead she sleeps with her dad, gets pregnant which makes mom have a mental breakdown and kill herself and try to kill Annie and then seems shocked that Annie reacted badly about this ho basically destroying her life. No sympathy for Rita from me.

[TheLotusFlower]

3 hours ago, mrsh said:

Glad ita not just me who disliked Rita. The affair itself isn't what made me dislike her, but the fact that she knew Annie had issues and was working hard to overcome them. Then Rita comes in under the guise of helping her and instead she sleeps with her dad, gets pregnant which makes mom have a mental breakdown and kill herself and try to kill Annie and then seems shocked that Annie reacted badly about this ho basically destroying her life. No sympathy for Rita from me.

Exactly.  Even though Annie's father had already left her mother, Rita clearly knew that Annie was a disturbed child who was struggling with all of the turmoil going on in her family.  There was absolutely no excuse for her to get involved with Annie's dad.  They knew their relationship was wrong, otherwise they wouldn't have tried to hide it from Annie.  They were both so selfish.  Then they're going to just move on and live happily ever after after the pain and damage they caused Annie and her mother.  Nope, not one bit of sympathy from me either.

[Armchair Critic]

I recognized Rita from the other Stephen King show right away, but it took me a bit to realize where I saw the realtor turned vampire (?) before, she was Martha on The Americans.