S03.E08: Malfunction

[Jillybean]

I've re-watched the two crash scenes a few times now. Hen does not appear to slow down at all. In fact, her foot only hits the brake right as she crashes into Evelyn's car. At the end of the first crash scene, it would appear Evelyn had a green light, but it's hard to know since her car was pushed pretty far by the ambulance. 

Traffic lights are also shown in the second crash scene (after Evelyn hangs up with her mom) and also appears to show Evelyn with a green light. Although the car in the lane next to Evelyn's stopped at the intersection, this doesn't necessarily mean the light was red; it could mean that the driver did what drivers are supposed to do when an ambulance is approaching an intersection with lights and sirens. 

My conclusion is Evelyn should've stopped at the intersection regardless of red or green light since the sirens were audible -- however, despite the fact that she told Athena she slowed down, Hen barreled through the intersection without slowing down at all, which surely is not protocol. 

It won't help that Hen told Chimney in the scene on their way to the call that she'd been distracted. Nor that she yelled to Chimney "tell him to hold on!" right before she T-boned Evelyn.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Jillybean

[The Ringo Kidd]

I guess blaming the victim is how they will justify keeping her on the show.

In the same way they must have blamed all the people who Bobby burned to death. How does he have a job anyway? 
 
This show is ridiculous.

[tvgoddess]

13 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

Its also possible since Lindsay was driving a small car and was fairly far back she was in a blind spot and Hen simply didn't see her. In the end Lindsey ran the red light and the car next to her was much closer and stopped in plenty of time. Either way I don't think Hen is at fault. At least not completely,  if Lindsey was paying attention the accident wouldn't have happened. I don't know if Hen could have stopped in time even if she had seen Lindsey.

Who in the world is Lindsey?

[The Ringo Kidd]

34 minutes ago, tvgoddess said:

Who in the world is Lindsey?

The former mayor of New York who was often blindsided by events like snowstorms and transit strikes.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Hen is totally at fault. She ran into a car not the the other way around. It was her responsibility to make sure the intersection was clear. She was obviously wrong to barrel through such a busy intersection without using caution. Her distraction and the personal problems that she brought to the job only make it worse. She killed someone by her negligence.  She should be fired at the least.

I think it's kind of a wash. There seems to be some ambiguity over whether Evelyn had a red or green light. Assuming she ran a red light, she's at fault. The fact that she was on her phone doesn't help either. But at the same time, the ambulance has the greater responsibility, so in that regard Hen's at fault. What I imagine is that the investigators will arrive at the same conclusion and rule it as a no-fault accident. Hen will still blame herself and maybe quit for awhile but I doubt they would write her off the show.

[izabella]

7 hours ago, Concrtslt said:

This is why I never call my daughter when I know she might be driving!

This is why I never answer the phone while driving, nor do I call anyone while driving.  Whatever it is, can wait.  Truly.

There are studies that show, even if you are using handsfree, being on the phone is a big distraction, more so than having a conversation with someone in the car.

Edited November 14, 2019 by izabella

[AliciaY]

Omgggg this was an amazing episode... I laughed, I cried... I watched it back to back. The details in the episode were the best! I paused, looked up EVERY Instagram page of everyone who posted to "Evelyn" the cellist and none of them are real... Marketing Stalker lol!!! . Evelyn's has been reincarnated by a stranger but not officially from her character. The switch changed BUT Evelyn's car was on the right side of the car that actually stopped and because she was on cloud 9 she wasn't paying attention to the ambulance🚑. They had to play the back story so that we'd be invested in Evelyn's life and wouldn't just say... "Whatevs..." Wish I could be a part of their writing team.... AMAZING!!!! 

[The Ringo Kidd]

But she shut off the phone two seconds before the accident in the same way Hen started paying attention two seconds ago instead of wallowing In her personal problems as she had be doing for days.  Since this seems to be the new standard she is totally innocent  of all of this.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think it's kind of a wash. There seems to be some ambiguity over whether Evelyn had a red or green light. Assuming she ran a red light, she's at fault. The fact that she was on her phone doesn't help either. But at the same time, the ambulance has the greater responsibility, so in that regard Hen's at fault. What I imagine is that the investigators will arrive at the same conclusion and rule it as a no-fault accident. Hen will still blame herself and maybe quit for awhile but I doubt they would write her off the show.

So, two faults make a no-fault? 😉

[gonzosgirrl]

Hen was paying attention, and (I think) slowed down. Other vehicles stopped, so it's understandable she thought she was okay. Evelyn used her phone hands-free and was off by the time she ran the light. Why didn't Hen look closer? Why didn't Evelyn hear the sirens? Sometimes, tragic shit happens. That's kind of the definition of an accident.

Edited November 14, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[The Ringo Kidd]

I see no evidence that she slowed down based on the impact. If she slowed down she could have stopped. She would not have been at fault if she had been hit. But she hit the other car at high speed. She is at fault. As I have said I live near a hospital and have seen ambulance slow almost to a stop at a busy intersection a couple of blocks away. They would never had this accident.

[WinJet0819]

15 minutes ago, The Ringo Kidd said:

I see no evidence that she slowed down based on the impact. If she slowed down she could have stopped. She would not have been at fault if she had been hit. But she hit the other car at high speed. She is at fault. As I have said I live near a hospital and have seen ambulance slow almost to a stop at a busy intersection a couple of blocks away. They would never had this accident.

If Hen had not have actually slowed diwn, Evelyn's car, a small Hyundai Veloster would have been thrown halfway down the street.

[The Ringo Kidd]

They were thrown halfway down the street and impact was so powerful that they had to pry her out with the jaws of life. How much more did she have to do?

The fact is Hen was at fault. There is a reason why she was acting distraught and guilty. Because she is guilty.

Don’t worry about it though she will be back endangering more people with her personal issues. There is no penalty on this show.

[Raja]

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

So, two faults make a no-fault? 😉

Probably not in this case since one fault was made by the deep pockets of City Of Los Angeles tax payers through their professional driver/firefighter paramedic. The same City Attorney who would have been willing to settle and pay off Buck

[WinJet0819]

5 hours ago, The Ringo Kidd said:

They were thrown halfway down the street and impact was so powerful that they had to pry her out with the jaws of life. How much more did she have to do?

The fact is Hen was at fault. There is a reason why she was acting distraught and guilty. Because she is guilty.

Don’t worry about it though she will be back endangering more people with her personal issues. There is no penalty on this show.

They were still in the intersection. They were not halfway down the street. Hen did change the light. Hen did slow down. Hen was paying attention to the road. You want to fault her for something, then let's fault her for maybe being too relaxed? What the hell do you expect her to do when a car pops out of nowhere. She did just about everything right. There was no negligence on her part. It's just a terrible accident. You can do everything right, but still the unexpected happens due to bad luck and circumstances. How did Evelyn not hear the sirens from the ambulance? Was she shielded from seeing the ambulance by the other car stopped in front of her? Could she possibly have not seen the light change to red due to the glare of the sun? Did she take her eyes off the road for a split second?

And Hen is distraught because a girl was seriously hurt and then died as a result of the accident. Not because she was guilty. Name a person who's been in that same situation that isn't distraught. If you recall, tennis great Venus Williams broke down over a driver being killed in an accident that involved her in which she was not at fault. She wasn't crying she was guilty. She was crying because a guy died.

[Raja]

50 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't think Hen is the one that is in trouble.  I think a suspended Athena is in trouble for inserting herself into this mess, even if she is there to comfort a friend. 

Perhaps Captain Bobby for calling his wife, who got to the scene with Jack Bauer speed, and not Hen's union rep has some explaining to do. The Sergeant should be okay, she didn't lie or tell anyone to lie.

[Dani-Ellie]

4 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

And Hen is distraught because a girl was seriously hurt and then died as a result of the accident. Not because she was guilty. Name a person who's been in that same situation that isn't distraught.

This.

It's also not uncommon to second-guess oneself after the utter lack of control and helplessness that comes with being involved in an accident. I was rear-ended while stopped with my left blinker on waiting to take a left turn and the other driver fully admitted that she'd taken her eyes off the road and hadn't seen me until it was too late and I still questioned what I could have done differently. The sad fact of the matter was that there was nothing I could have done differently. Luckily in my case, we were all okay.

I just rewatched the crash scene. The siren was on. The car beside Evelyn in the turning lane slowed to a stop. When we cut to the POV from Evelyn's car as she crosses into the intersection, the light behind her is green, indicating that she would have had the green light in her direction. When Hen hits her, the traffic light behind the ambulance is green, indicating that Hen also would have had the green in her direction. Maybe it will come out that the intersection's transponder was faulty because it seemed to respond to the ambulance's signal to give Hen the green but did not change the light to red in the other direction. (Hence "Malfunction," maybe?)

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, Dani-Ellie said:

(Maybe it will come out that the intersection's transponder was faulty because it seemed to respond to the ambulance's signal to give Hen the green but did not change the light to red in the other direction.Hence "Malfunction," maybe?)

I was just coming here to mention this, and there it was! I absolutely think this is what's going to happen. I thought the other car stopping was a clue, but then realized it was in the turn lane and probably would have slowed/stopped (depending on oncoming traffic) regardless of the red/green light or siren. Malfunction, indeed!

[The Ringo Kidd]

It is a great idea to make up technical malfunctioning devices and blame the victim to justify the obvious negligence of the ambulance driver. I have personally witnessed many times an ambulance slowing almost to a stop in crossing a busy intersection. If someone has run into the ambulance it is on them. If the ambulance runs into someone so hard that they are thrown out of their seatbelt and airbags than it is on them.

Any way you slice it she should never be behind the wheel of a ambulance again and might be properly facing dismissal at the least.

[night39bird]

There is much about this episode that I found wanting.  I agree with a previous post it would have been nice to  know how Captain Cooper is back on duty.  I, too thought that an amputated limb would have prevented him to returning to his station. I also would have like to seen a scene between him and Athena.  

The ice skating scene was funny and the crews reaction to Bobby's ability to figure skate and play hockey -- hilarious.  I am wondering if Bobby will face repercussions for calling Athena, especially since the finale press release states he will receive shocking news!

One of the cool things about finding this forum is that there is a lot of passion, analysis that takes place here. It's been fun reading it. On the other hand, it's television and poetic license is taken all the time -- divergent from reality.  I hope that Hen will remain with the show and that she will emerge from this current trial relatively unscathed!



[Gramto6]

Whaaattt??? My guide says it is a new episode tonight, but it is a rerun  of 3-1 "Kids Today". Disappointed!

[oceanview]

On 11/11/2019 at 10:46 PM, SuprSuprElevated said:

I can see that, makes sense.

I can understand it, but it kind of stinks......You can only be responsible for so many things with only two eyes in your head.   More proof that people on phones put themselves and others at great risk.   This was so said for her family, but hopefully a wakeup call for others.  My State just passed a "No Phones" in your hands while driving, although I am not sure if it means no phones period.  Too new to recall the details.

[oceanview]

On 11/12/2019 at 2:28 PM, The Ringo Kidd said:

I live three blocks from a major hospital and see ambulances with the siren wailing every day. Without exception they always slow down at intersections to make sure that the cross traffic has stopped. The accident was totally preventable and all on Hen’s distraction and unfitness for duty.

It’s unfortunate that she will get by with no consequences and garner all the sympathy.

Not sure I agree with your comment that it was all Hen's fault.  If this episode does not show the dangers of talking on the phone, or any other kind of distracted driving,  we need to do more education on the subject.  Such a sad situation, placing blame can be on both parties, IMO, is more fair

[SuprSuprElevated]

8 hours ago, oceanview said:

I can understand it, but it kind of stinks......You can only be responsible for so many things with only two eyes in your head.   More proof that people on phones put themselves and others at great risk.   This was so said for her family, but hopefully a wakeup call for others.  My State just passed a "No Phones" in your hands while driving, although I am not sure if it means no phones period.  Too new to recall the details.

I believe that the physical act of holding a phone is only a small part of the distraction.  When one is having a conversation, whether with actual passengers, or virtually on a phone using the hands-free or integrated features, it's a distraction.  One that we will never be totally safe from, as long as passengers will be in a car.  (No, I don't think driverless is anywhere near ready).

Imo, some of the most distracted drivers are emergency responders.  Police officers, at least in our community, are routinely driving while operating (or at least reading) the in-car computer, perhaps a cell phone, or talking on the 2-way radio.  Far more distractions that digging for a french fry.

Texting/scrolling while driving is evil.  Not sure how it will ever be stopped completely, as disabling phones while in a moving vehicle would also hamper passengers, and would be a safety concern.  Lot to learn and be done with this issue.

Edited November 20, 2019 by SuprSuprElevated

[oceanview]

11 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I believe that the physical act of holding a phone is only a small part of the distraction.  When one is having a conversation, whether with actual passengers, or virtually on a phone using the hands-free or integrated features, it's a distraction.  One that we will never be totally safe from, as long as passengers will be in a car.  (No, I don't think driverless is anywhere near ready).

Imo, some of the most distracted drivers are emergency responders.  Police officers, at least in our community, are routinely driving while operating (or at least reading) the in-car computer, perhaps a cell phone, or talking on the 2-way radio.  Far more distractions that digging for a french fry.

Texting/scrolling while driving is evil.  Not sure how it will ever be stopped completely, as disabling phones while in a moving vehicle would also hamper passengers, and would be a safety concern.  Lot to learn and be done with this issue.

I agree with your comment about many distractions, regardless of who is driving.  I find as I age, I cannot carry on a conversation with only one other passenger in my car.  I really have to keep alert all the time.    I never was much of a cell phone user anyway, and always pull off the road if I needed to make a call and ignored  any incoming calls, letting them go to messages.   I recall many years ago I was driving on an Interstate at 60 MPH on (thankfully a low traffic time) and a truck in front of me  in the next lane had a BBQ  strapped into his truck bed.  The BBQ cover flew off, right in front of me  Natural reaction was to swerve and to this day, I am grateful that no one was in the way.  I  almost ended up on the median and no one else was   hit.   It was the most scary driving moment of my life.    Had I not seen it happen, I would have run over it and that was another scenario that could have caused a serious accident.  

On another note, we do have the service for police, fire and medical people to change the traffic lights in all their vehicles.  It is  a great way to keep traffic from clogging an area for them to get thru most of the time.  We still need to be alert for sure.

[starri]

I've never had a particularly strong reaction to Ronda Rousey other than "Oh, it's her again."

The "I don't have a cat" scene was the first time where I thought she was actively goddamn terrible.

[Diana Berry]

when you all are talking about the switch are you referring to just turning on the siren and flashing lights on the vehicle ?

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Diana Berry said:

when you all are talking about the switch are you referring to just turning on the siren and flashing lights on the vehicle ?

No a switch to send a signal override the timer and/or a street sensors on the traffic lights to give police, fire and ambulances a faster response time by hopefully clearing intersections ahead of them.

[msrachelj]

On 11/12/2019 at 10:37 AM, MusingTree said:

Yes to all of this, especially the part about Evelyn - Little Miss Perfect INDEED.  I just rolled my eyes to the ceiling watching her scenes before the crash. It was too much, but they are going to use that character set up - especially the part about her being the youngest soloist at the Philharmonic - to drag Hen and her family through the mud. 

And that Bach piece is used for EVERYTHING. You’d think that’s the only solo musical work for the cello. 
 

Not clear, did she run the light? Was she still talking on the phone (having the phone on speaker, hands free  has proven to be “distracted driving”.  In my opinion it should be just as illegal as the other illegal ways of using your device in the car.   Did she not have her seatbelt on? No side airbags? Not familiar with watching these type of shows so I don’t know if how she looked after the accident with the ambulance was correct.  

[Raja]

1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

Not clear, did she run the light? Was she still talking on the phone (having the phone on speaker, hands free  has proven to be “distracted driving”.  In my opinion it should be just as illegal as the other illegal ways of using your device in the car.   Did she not have her seatbelt on? No side airbags? Not familiar with watching these type of shows so I don’t know if how she looked after the accident with the ambulance was correct.  

Spoiler

No she had a green light, Hen also had a green light from using her override technology thus the episode title.

In effect the car on her left either saw the lights and/or heard the siren and came to a stop screening the ambulance  and other driver from each other before the crash.

[kwnyc]

Had bad dreams about that one. I live in NYC and have seen plenty of people in cars and pedestrians ignore oncoming emergency vehicles.

I'm a block from a firehouse and 6 blocks from a hospital, and I see (and hear) near misses all the time...in fact, I've learned to judge the severity of an accident from the sound. One thud: probably not major. Two thuds: uh-oh. Three thuds: they're going to have to close off the intersection.

In one case, a car t-boned an ambulance and the ambulance driver had to be transported along with the patient they were carrying in another ambo. Whew.