S05.E05: Dangerous Liaisons

[Trini]

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A NEW DANGER ARISES - On the eve of the worldwide launch of Andrea Rojas's VR contact lenses, Kara and William (Staz Nair) team up on an investigation that exposes a terrorist plot. Kelly and Alex celebrate an anniversary, but Alex's safety is in jeopardy.

Alysse Leite-Rogers directed the episode written by Rob Wright & Daniel Beaty.

Airdate 11/3/2019.

[statsgirl]

The Leviathan reveal at the end was a nice twist.  So was Lena using the information from J'onn's brother to be able to incept him.  Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Other than that, I think the writing on Supergirl is the worst of all the Arrowverse shows. I guess that Rip Roar (a name that sounds like it was something that belongs in the Power Rangers) was the missing Russell. Also he looked like a discount Doc Oc.  When they said how dangerous the weapon was, J'onn said "We have to get it." Duh. He could have said "How do we find it?" which would have led into Brainy's explanation equally well.  Kara says to the tattoos "Don't you care about the people you've killed? Don't you care about their relatives?:" No, Kara, it's an assassin. The tidalway all the way from Antarctica, which impossibly turned into a wall of water, was conveniently headed to the coastal city Kara was in instead of, oh I don't know, someplace like the Maldives. It's becoming that the absurdities draw me out of the story most of the time.

A date-aversay? The stereotype of lesbians is that they get too involved too fast, and this show is really going down that route. Also, Alex has a Pinterest page? It's like they feel that her being a strong leader of the DEO must be balanced by acting like a fifties character.

[UNOSEZ]

Solid epi... Good pace.. It was obvious about Rip Roar.. But thas alright... Lena's whole reasoning is a stretch to me... Mal was imprisoned and then wiped from the consciousness of the green martians... Lena's homegirl didn't tell her a secret... Those are not equal betrayals... William was once again a little too " I just need you to be safe... Oh stay away etc" for my taste.. As was Kara getting all mad which is obviously because she is taking on some of the pain William is feeling... Still not sure if Andrea us a baddie or someone being bullied by leviathan.. I'm assuming we'll get more from Rip Roar later on.. I look fwd to hia dynamic with Andrea and William and the gang

[quarks]

I'm not sure what exactly is going on this season on Supergirl. 

The show's doing a decent job of tangling together the various plots - the final reveal tying together Leviathan with the contact lens people was a decent twist, and I'm hoping that Lena's current obsession will turn out to be at least partly caused/inspired by those contact lenses, and it was nice if a bit convenient that the first person who just happened to come across Kelly crying in the bathroom is the superhero who is also - or, I guess, was also - involved in the journalistic side of the investigation. 

But in a season where Batwoman is settling into its groove, Arrow is having its best season since at least season 5 and arguably earlier, and even Flash is having a comparatively strong season, Supergirl, especially in tonight's episode, just feels like it's going through the motions, a sorta, "Ok, we gotta get this show out, so, whatever."

Maybe it was just this one episode. And maybe it's that this show is really not the best follow-up to Batwoman. I realize that Arrow and Flash are running parallel storylines this season, thus that pairing, but I can't help but feel that Batwoman/Arrow and Flash/Supergirl would make better pairings. Or, for that matter, running Batwoman on Monday and bringing Charmed back to follow Supergirl. Less of a tonal shift.

Convenient of that wave to target just one coastal area with a suspicious resemblance to Vancouver, wasn't it?

[Lantern7]

I don't know what was goofier: Jessie Rath's portrayal of Brainy possessed by alien spiders, or realizing Rip Roar was very loosely based on a character that popped up in the original Young Justice comic. Here is the original version, which looks especially badass when compared to what looks like a cosplayer that couldn't decide between Dr. Octopus and Robocop.

Good episode, with Andrea continuing to be the absolute worst. And given how many disasters occur in National City, you'd think anyone there would want to be unbelievably alert at all times . . . as opposed to being blissed-out in their individual virtual environments.

I'm sorry . . . how did Kara, Nia and J'onn stop the massive tidal wave? Also, why did J'onn stay in human for- . . . durr. Budgetary reasons.

I feel for William, but I kept waiting for him to look at us, all, "Do you get we're British in this flashback? Because we were. Us two chaps would have tea with Manchester Black on the weekend, that's how British we were."

[Oreo2234]

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A date-aversay? The stereotype of lesbians is that they get too involved too fast, and this show is really going down that route. Also, Alex has a Pinterest page? It's like they feel that her being a strong leader of the DEO must be balanced by acting like a fifties character.

I loathe it when they write Alex this way and they've been doing it a lot. 

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But in a season where Batwoman is settling into its groove, Arrow is having its best season since at least season 5 and arguably earlier, and even Flash is having a comparatively strong season, Supergirl, especially in tonight's episode, just feels like it's going through the motions, a sorta, "Ok, we gotta get this show out, so, whatever."

They need to bring in some new people behind the scenes. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Oreo2234

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, I'm not quite knowledgeable on "Rip Roar's" comic history, but it really came off like a half-assed version of Doc Ock.  They even had to give him a big ass gun to even make him any kind of threat towards Kara.  And, of course, he was William's supposed dead friend this entire time.  You'd think an ace reporter on TV land will know all about the "no body, no death!" rule.

So, not only is William simply a guy on a quest to avenge his friend, but are they hinting that Angela also isn't a true villain, either?  If so, I still don't know why I have to put up with either of them.

I know Kara always wants to see the best in everyone, but did she really think she could guilt-trip an assassin with a "Don't you care about the people you killed?!" speech?  I so hope she tries to pull that on whatever they end up facing on the Crisis crossover!

Still not that interested in Alex/Kelly, although I'm curious to see a potential friendship between Kelly and Nia.

Of course Brainy would be all about the Keanu Reeves!

Lena's now basically taken Malefic's powers and make him docile with her mind.  Will she ever be able to walk any of this back?  It was cool seeing Phil LaMarr in human form!  Maybe they'll have him and Carl Lumbly actually share the screen and get that mini-Justice League reunion!

I just realized Breathtaker is played by Luisa D'Olivera a.k.a. Emori from The 100, so I hope we see more of her.  Cool seeing her without that face tattoo!  Bonus points if they bring in Richard Harmon as a potential partner in crime for her!

[Jediknight]

Love Brainy being a fan of Keanu Reeves.  Keep that continuity up.

Jesse Rath going full ham while Spider Assassin was marvelous.  That's joining the company of Neal McDonough's Darhk on Legends, Wentworth Miller's Snart, Tom Cavanagh as German Wells, Danny Trejo's Breacher, and Katee Sackhoff's Amunet.  You're in great company, Rath.

Supergirl, you're not doing a very good job of hiding that Andrea Brooks is pregnant.

[BaggythePanther]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

or realizing Rip Roar was very loosely based on a character that popped up in the original Young Justice comic. Here is the original version, which looks especially badass when compared to what looks like a cosplayer that couldn't decide between Dr. Octopus and Robocop.

I just took a look at the original and he’s from Apokolips. Now I’m really leaning towards the idea that the old lady from Leviathan is Granny Goodness.

 I wasn’t watching closely so I don’t really understand everything that happened with the huge wave. How is it that the water from melting polar icecaps in Antarctica affected the US coast, but nowhere south of that? Or am I over thinking this?

Lena double crossing Malefic so she can get what she wants without giving him the ability to hurt J’onn feels like old school Lena. But now she’s invaded a second person’s mind sending her further down the road to villainy. What exactly is Lena’s plan? Invade everyone’s minds and tell them to be kind to one another?

Also, that dress Kara had on in the first scene tonight was very pretty but not very work appropriate imo. The fact that they put Kara in a sexy dress for a five minute scene with William stuck out to me. 

2 hours ago, quarks said:

But in a season where Batwoman is settling into its groove, Arrow is having its best season since at least season 5 and arguably earlier, and even Flash is having a comparatively strong season, Supergirl, especially in tonight's episode, just feels like it's going through the motions, a sorta, "Ok, we gotta get this show out, so, whatever."

I think it’s because those shows have a driving force. Arrow and Flash are setting up Crisis and Batwoman is setting up its universe. Supergirl, like you said, ‘just has to get this show out’. I don’t think Supergirl needs to play a major part in setting up COIE, but it needs something to drive the season. The three big thing set up for this season- COIE, Lena’s descent into villainy and Leviathan- the main characters don’t know about them yet.

[AnimeMania]

Kelly was upset that Alex might be in danger even though Alex is equipped to handle danger. While Kelly is in extreme danger from a tidal wave and doesn't even realize it because she is wearing those stupid VR lenses. Why are people doing VR simulations while walking around outside. It is dangerous enough doing it inside an empty room.

[UNOSEZ]

If they aren't setting up Kara and William somehow.. They are doing a shit job of it.. Or are purposely trolling us.. Because from wardrobe choices to music to dialouge its pointing there... He once again is in alpha protection mode.. He's wallowing in self-guilt for "getting her mixed up" he's even more personally involved in this quest.. Kara's getting foolishly angry at a suspect because she's so sad for William.. She's bending pipes with frustration... Who TF are they writing this for?  William bugs out on breathtaker so Kara has to bug out on spiderbrainy?  ( what was with that accent.. expected him to throw out a "Vato" somewhere along the way)... I really don't see how they walk back Lena who's done some real horrible things already.. Unless she's been compromised by hope... Because she's kidnapped and altered Mal.. Whether she believes she Can control him or not she gave him the ability to kill J'onn martians live a long time... She took over Eve with a computer... In my mind she's already too far gone.. Especially for what everyone's crime was

[tennisgurl]

I know that the eye things are going to turn out to be eeeeviiiiilllll and all, but as long as you arent stupid enough to use them while your out and about...they look kind of cool. I could get into going to a magical field and sprouting wings in virtual reality! Although, especially now that we know Leviathan is involved in this, its probably some mass brainwashing or something. Obviously its evil, given how pouty Kara and Nia looked while they were hearing about it!

Wow, you mean that guy who looked just like the guy in the Doc Ock cosplay is the guy in the Doc Ock cosplay?! Shocking I tell you! I also loved how very British their flashbacks were, complete with pints at the pub and an apartment with a British flag on it! Also, why do they keep describing him as having four arms, when he so obviously have two arms and some mechanical tentacles? Is everyone really bad at describing things, or are those actually supposed to be an extra pair of super jacked up robot arms?! 

I did like this episode alright, but there are so many plots going on, that every plot seems kind of halfway finished. At least now they seem to be pulling them all together, with Leviathan being involved with Andrea and the tech that Lena is building being connected to the lenses and her using Malefic to use his power. So what is Leviathans goal anyway? Did they just want to dick with Andrea by drowning a few million people? 

Kara screaming at the assassin all "dont you care that you killed people? What about their relatives?!" sounded hilariously ridiculous. I mean, Kara this isnt your first day here, you've tangled with plenty of intergalactic conquerors and murders of all kinds, you arent going to get too far trying to guilt trip this random assassin, or acting like your so shocked at someone killing people for money. In general, I dont really get why Kara is taking this all so personally and getting so upset. Is she so into William now that his best friend angst is getting to her?

[BaggythePanther]

3 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Whether she believes she Can control him or not she gave him the ability to kill J'onn martians live a long time...

She didn’t give Malefic the ability to control J’onn, she implemented her mind control chip instead. Still bad, but she’s still sticking to her ‘Do not kill’ rule. Though she needs to look up the definition of ‘Do no harm’ because she’s still insisting she hasn’t hurt anyone.

I think she’s redeemable as long as she doesn’t kill anyone. All this terrible stuff she’s done so far can be undone. Death can’t. And if Black Siren, Killer Frost and Nora Darhk (all accessories to murder) can become heroes I think Lena could join the Superfriends if she gets her shit together before things get much worse. We’ll see.

[UNOSEZ]

15 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

I think she’s redeemable as long as she doesn’t kill anyone. All this terrible stuff she’s done so far can be undone. Death can’t. And if Black Siren, Killer Frost and Nora Darhk (all accessories to murder) can become heroes I think Lena could join the Superfriends if she gets her shit together before things get much worse. We’ll see.

True.. My difference is that.. Those 3 came as villains.. I knew what I was looking at and they worked to become better.. Well 2 of them did.. Killer frost hasn't even been yelled at it seems... Lena seems to have broken bad knowing damn well what breaking bad is and justifying it anyway because she was "betrayed" she's trying to take control of ppl's minds.. In a world that has seen all sorts of tech missused for horrible purposes... And let's not forget how her previous science experiments have gone.. If Mal ever breaks free he can kill J'onn and that's thanks to Lena 

23 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Is she so into William now that his best friend angst is getting to her?

To quote Lana from Archer... "Yuuuupppp"

[iMonrey]

Has J'onn's brother been Phil LaMarr all along or is this the first time we've seen him? I'm always going to think of MadTV whenever I see him.

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Has J'onn's brother been Phil LaMarr all along or is this the first time we've seen him? I'm always going to think of MadTV whenever I see him.

I can't speak for the voice.. But his face was a diff black guy... Younger before.. Plus the flashback to him as  kid... 

[DavidJSnyder]

Phil LaMarr has been doing the Martian form voice since last year's finale.

[Quark]

The guy that plays William is an awful actor. Especially in his shouty scenes. Wasn't too mad about this episode, as it had way too much of him.

Intrigued by Leviathan though.

[BaggythePanther]

6 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

If Mal ever breaks free he can kill J'onn and that's thanks to Lena 

 

No he can’t. Lena broke her promise. He’s still bound by Martian rules.

 I’m glad it looks like they’re going to make Nia and Kelly friends. I’m not that interested in her relationship with Alex, but I like her as a character and I’m glad they’re continuing to work her in with other characters. 

[angora]

2 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

 I’m glad it looks like they’re going to make Nia and Kelly friends. I’m not that interested in her relationship with Alex, but I like her as a character and I’m glad they’re continuing to work her in with other characters. 

Cosign. The show has yet to fully sell me on Alex/Kelly, but I do really like Kelly and I appreciate how integrated she feels into the major stuff, both with her connection to Obsidian and the stuff that went down with Malefic. And I'm always up for more Nia! The scene between them was really nice.

I'll admit I was holding my breath a bit when Kara was angsting over Andrea and insisting she was going to confront her. I thought, "Forget not wanting to put her in danger, William, the REAL reason you should regret Kara finding out is that she might blow the secret after you've spent two+ years investigating this!" Glad Alex was able to talk her down, but it made me roll my eyes when, later, Kara was the one to tell WILLIAM not to rush into a hasty confrontation. Sure, Kara, go ahead and bestow your wisdom of the last two days on him.

I was mixed on the portrayal of Brainy with the spider tattoos. The voice didn't quite work for me - I thought it could fully make up its mind how much or sound/not sound like me - but I enjoyed the physicality of it, especially when he was trying to bite the chain on the handcuffs. Ha!

I'm nervous about what's going on with Lena but still interested. Intriguing that she played Malefic - still going down a majorly bad road, but she won't cross certain lines to get there.

[MadyGirl1987]

So Obsidian is basically what if the OASIS from "Ready Player One" was run by evil people? Real original, show...  Part of what annoys me about the storyline is that it has the main character coming off as technophobic when we see her using advanced technology all the time and Kara is in an age-range where most are really into tech innovations and people are adept at and interested in integrating new technologies into their lives.

Really liked Brainy under control by that parasite. Jesse Rath has range.

[Trini]

Phil LaMarr!! That was a nice surprise! -- I say 'nice surprise', but at the same time I think they should publicize these guest stars more. ::shrug::

So because Kara 'betrayed' her, Lena wants to re-write humanity's brains? Classic over-the-top villainy - why are they doing this with Lena?? So now she's got two prisoners. And where exactly does one acquire extraterrestrial fauna??

Whether it's romantic or not, Kara/William definitely looks like it will be an ongoing thing.

It was really weird to J'onn flying, etc. in that Antarctic action sequence in his human form instead of his Martian form. (I'm sure it's not the first time they've done it, but still.) Then again, there was a lot of VFX elsewhere in this episode.

Andrea, Rip Roar(such a silly name - comics!), Leviathan -- this season is about unraveling mysteries, I guess.

Shallow: they're putting Kara in some really great outfits this season!

[Trini]

On 11/3/2019 at 11:43 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Lena's now basically taken Malefic's powers and make him docile with her mind.  Will she ever be able to walk any of this back?

I don't know if she should be able to, but I'm sure she will when (my speculation:) she helps defeat the Even Bigger Bad by the end of the season.
 

On 11/4/2019 at 1:20 AM, BaggythePanther said:

Also, that dress Kara had on in the first scene tonight was very pretty but not very work appropriate imo. The fact that they put Kara in a sexy dress for a five minute scene with William stuck out to me.

Loooks like she's following Iris West-Allen's 'fabolus but inappropriate' fashion advice -- but I'm not mad at it!
 

15 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

I think she’s redeemable as long as she doesn’t kill anyone. All this terrible stuff she’s done so far can be undone. Death can’t. ...

She did murder her brother, though.

[Chyromaniac]

20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I also loved how very British their flashbacks were, complete with pints at the pub and an apartment with a British flag on it!

They also stuck a little Union Jack plaque thingy behind William in his otherwise sterile white work space.  We get it show- he’s British...

I thought this week was better overall than the past few episodes.  If nothing else, the different plots felt a bit more connected.  The VR stuff is still confusing though- it seemed like everyone was inhabiting a shared space, and could interact with each other.  So did everyone else using it in the office just watch William call their boss and her family a bunch of killers?

Nice to see Phil- I’ve been hoping he’d get to show up in person eventually.  Maybe the effects budget for the character finally ran out.

[AnimeMania]

11 minutes ago, Chyromaniac said:

So did everyone else using it in the office just watch William call their boss and her family a bunch of killers?

I was thinking that the Obsidian Company might be recording everybody's VR experiences and that is how Andrea would know that William thought that she was a murderer.

[MadyGirl1987]

52 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I was thinking that the Obsidian Company might be recording everybody's VR experiences and that is how Andrea would know that William thought that she was a murderer.

Right? Dude, you are saying that texts are hackable, yet you are doing that simulation in a VR device RUN BY THE PERSON YOU ARE INVESTIGATING!

[Rushmoras]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

She did murder her brother, though.

Yeah, but Barack Obama lookalike teleported his body out, and I bet he's gonna resurrect him for the Crisis show, so that does not count!

Besides, after watching this cartoon supervillain iteration, I have put ten bullets in to his skull as well.  So, I totally understand Lena lol

On topic, I liked Batwoman's ep 5 better than this one. Was not surprised that Andrea is linked to Leviathan at all (seen to many this type of plots to be surprised). Not liking William and Kara.

Also, failing to see Kara's logic. William asked her not to say anything to anyone, so she chose to only omit Nia (probably Lena as well) from the loop, but every other acquaintance (John and Alex) are OK with knowing. Yeah...

Edited November 5, 2019 by Rushmoras

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I was thinking that the Obsidian Company might be recording everybody's VR experiences and that is how Andrea would know that William thought that she was a murderer.

Yeah, I honestly just assume that Andrea has all of these VR experiences on file that she can access somewhere. I'm surprised that William didn't consider that these experiences, private or not, are still recorded. I assume it's also in fine print of whatever contract he had to sign in order to use the device. 

I don't like the Obsidian VR devices. It's just too unbelievable that so many people would just pop them in while out in public and have no awareness of the outside world while they're in VR. Maybe it's a commentary about people who are on their phones while out in public and not aware of their surroundings, but I think that this is a bit too extreme and on the nose. And I especially am not thrilled that Kelly is so invested in the device and seems to have no suspicions of Andrea. 

Speaking of Kelly, I actually really love Kelly and love that she's getting some great material. Her brother never managed to get good material, but she is. And I like the idea of Kelly/Nia interacting more. I do agree that Kelly/Alex is already tiring me out. They're hitting some really annoying cliches, Alex is annoying with her focus back primarily on her romantic life (which means the kids subject is soon to come up AGAIN) and I just don't like the writing for Alex/Kelly. I love both characters and I like them as a couple, but I didn't love the direction that they're going with them. 

Kara/William is already pissing me off. William, in particular, is an annoying character for me. He's definitely giving me season 2 Mon-El vibes, in terms of likability. I get that he's different from season 2 Mon-El, but I'm getting the same feeling with this probable romantic arc. I don't think it's about me not wanting Kara in a relationship. It's me not liking the relationships they keep trying to pair her with. That, and the actor of William is not good. Chris Wood was a great actor saddled with horrible writing. Staz Nair is really underwhelming for me.

Lena's stuff....*sighs* It's going to be hard to bring her back from all of this for me. Not irredeemable yet, but getting close to it.

[Rushmoras]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't like the Obsidian VR devices. It's just too unbelievable that so many people would just pop them in while out in public and have no awareness of the outside world while they're in VR. Maybe it's a commentary about people who are on their phones while out in public and not aware of their surroundings, but I think that this is a bit too extreme and on the nose. And I especially am not thrilled that Kelly is so invested in the device and seems to have no suspicions of Andrea. 

As I've mentioned in episode one, this is straight out of Longest Journey franchise, where Watticorp built "Dreammachines", where people could hook up to their brains and have a better virtual life than in reality. This, essentially led to people being like drug addicts, but instead of drugs, it was "Dreammachines". Of course, if I would care to dig deeper, I'd say that they did not invent the concept, but just taken it from somewhere else. As I've heard, more recent example could be Ready Player One, but... haven't seen it.

[Oreo2234]

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They're hitting some really annoying cliches, Alex is annoying with her focus back primarily on her romantic life (which means the kids subject is soon to come up AGAIN) and I just don't like the writing for Alex/Kelly. I love both characters and I like them as a couple, but I didn't love the direction that they're going with them. 

I agree except for the liking them as a couple. They barely act much like a new couple. I suspect when William and Kara get together they will be much more affectionate. Anyways, I hate how Alex acts like an irrational sappy teenager when she's in a romance. She shouldn't be letting her relationship with Kelly affect her decisions on the job this much. She's coming across like she is not mature or emotionally stable enough to lead the DEO. And I hope if the kids subject ever comes up again (and it probably will) its decided that its not something they need to rush into. I wish they would drop it altogether but I don't think that's likely at this point. 

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Kara/William is already pissing me off. William, in particular, is an annoying character for me. He's definitely giving me season 2 Mon-El vibes, in terms of likability. I get that he's different from season 2 Mon-El, but I'm getting the same feeling with this probable romantic arc. I don't think it's about me not wanting Kara in a relationship. It's me not liking the relationships they keep trying to pair her with. That, and the actor of William is not good. Chris Wood was a great actor saddled with horrible writing. Staz Nair is really underwhelming for me.

I think the actor is decent but he's not on Chris Wood's level. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Oreo2234