S02.E05: Nightmare on Lunch Box Street

[Angeltoes]

Quote

I know the old show is gone and dead, but I miss the early Halloween years where we got story-based moments for their costumes, whether it be pranking the hell out of their neighbors, or Roseanne being stuck in a bar mistaken for a man. 

The man one was my favorite.  

This episode was a huge disappointment as far as Halloween goes.  I guess we can just assume that it's too hard for still-grieving Dan to go all out since it was Roseanne's favorite holiday, and the limited decorations were for the sake of the kids.  I'll bet the real Roseanne jeered at this episode and said how lame it was.

I find it hard to believe that Becky wouldn't know her grandmother's first name.

[Pete Martell]

37 minutes ago, t7686 said:

Good point. Is the actress who played Mary's mother no longer on the show? I know Michael Fishman isn't the most... natural actor but I wish they'd dig deeper into his story (unless they did on the originally reboot with Roseanne? I had all the episodes saved on hulu to watch later but when they cancelled it, Hulu deleted it before I could watch and I can't find the season anywhere, though I digress). Mary as a POC in a white family is a interesting plot point and I'm glad they touched on it, if even for a minute. 

Also, I too wish they would say if Andy and Jerry are in this reboot or not. Drives me crazy.

They mentioned Jerry in the first episode I think - he works on a fishing boat. No mention of Andy. I never liked Jackie's pregnancy story so I'm not sorry to see that fade away but I understand why it annoys people. 

I can't remember if they said very much about DJ in the first season. I think Geena was shown briefly - she came home for one episode. There was a mention at one point of DJ being in therapy. Then she was recast last season. That actress left for another project. I guess they've decided to just leave her offcamera since they didn't know how to write for the character. I hope they bring her back someday. 

32 minutes ago, Angeltoes said:

 I find it hard to believe that Becky wouldn't know her grandmother's first name.

I took that as one of those 'writer' moments where they assumed viewers wouldn't remember her first name (which to be fair I didn't...) so they had to introduce it.

[Giuseppe]

Someone upthread mentioned that Dan in this episode seemed the most OG Dan than any other point in this reboot and I agree. Especially his interaction with Bev at the end. That seemed like vintage Roseanne...as did Jackie's argument with Bev in their apartment. More or that, please!

I can't remember, but did we ever even see Becky at the Lunch Box during the original series?I know Sarah Chalke was around for most of those years, but even then I still can't remember ever seeing Becky at the restaurant. Oh wait...one moment does come to mind: when Mark was trying to hit on Traci Lord's character (god I hated her) to piss David off, and Becky came in and caught him. Were there any other times? I kinda tune out those seasons of the show.

[Snow Apple]

3 minutes ago, UYI said:

When Lecy returned during season 8, there was a scene of her and Darlene getting drunk at the Lunch Box after hours. 

I also remember Lecy making a sculpture of Rosanne's head made out of the loose meat.

[UYI]

44 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

I took that as one of those 'writer' moments where they assumed viewers wouldn't remember her first name (which to be fair I didn't...) so they had to introduce it.

I'm a big enough fan that I said her name before they did! 😄

I do wish we could have seen Ann Wedgeworth (RIP) more than once in the original show. I adored her, both there and in Steel Magnolias. 

[Pete Martell]

1 minute ago, UYI said:

I'm a big enough fan that I said her name before they did! 😄

I do wish we could have seen Ann Wedgeworth (RIP) more than once in the original show. I adored her, both there and in Steel Magnolias. 

She was wonderful in the role - her episode has such a fragile sweetness that the first few seasons of Roseanne so often had. 

It's too bad about that awful return for the character. 

[Pallas]

Andy wasn't in this episode.

This is the place to talk about "Nightmare on Lunch Box Street." Please discuss the family's backstory, character histories (and characters who are history) in The Conners Then and Now, where several posts have been moved. 

It's hard out here for an episode thread... 

[Emkat]

I thought this episode was so good. The Bev jokes were on point.  

[BeachDays]

On 10/30/2019 at 11:40 PM, Pete Martell said:

I wish they'd done the material with Mary when her mother was still on the show, but I do appreciate the idea, and I thought most of the scenes, like DJ not knowing what to do, and Mary feeling defeated, were strong. I had mixed feelings about her conversation with Mark, mostly because I wish the show had pointed out that a black girl making faces to "scare" people away is not going to get the same response that a white boy doing that will. I did like seeing them talk and seeing more family connections. 

I mostly agree with this.   I wanted more, and I would love if Gina was still on the show-  I hope we see her back at some point.  But I did really like Mark’s advice bc he can only talk from his perspective and I love Mary’s non-response to his smile.   I really hope we can see more of their relationship, they seem to get along pretty well.  I wonder how old Mary is supposed to be.  10? 

[Homily]

2 minutes ago, BeachDays said:

I wanted more, and I would love if Gina was still on the show-  I hope we see her back at some point.

I missed something!  Has Gina been written off the show?

[BeachDays]

Just now, Homily said:

I missed something!  Has Gina been written off the show?

The actress got a role on another show and instead of recasting her (for the third time) they are just having her be deployed -  but I hope we see her again, she was great.  Actually both actresses were great.  No wonder they are getting other roles. 

[Bazinga]

Question for everyone: When Ben is sitting at his desk, there is a vintage-looking photo on the wall behind him of a man reading a newspaper.  I assume this is a famous journalist.  I was guessing Edward R. Murrow, but just a guess.  Anyone know who this is?  Thanks in advance.

[bamlou]

On 10/31/2019 at 2:40 AM, Pete Martell said:

It's nice to see Jackie as her old self again.

I agree, this was the first time in a while that I actually saw a spark of who Jackie was from the original series - Laurie Metcalf's performance in those scenes with Becky in the kitchen somehow felt calmer, more grounded, and more in-character as the Jackie I know and love in her excitement over re-opening the Lunch Box.

I wish though that the confrontation with Bev wasn't played so broadly, and I don't like how they've essentially reduced Jackie's relationship with Bev to one of basic hostility, when their dynamic felt much more complex than that on the original series. Maybe this is what their relationship has now become, but I liked it better when there was more nuance to their relationship shown, informed from seasons of character development - e.g. the anxiety of a disapproving mother, a mom who saw so much potential in her daughter and didn't want her to waste it, or Jackie’s greater bond with her father - much of this history between these two feels ignored when all Jackie can show towards her mother is aggressive hate for a quick one-liner.

But I think this was still the best episode of the season so far. Anything to call back to the original series feels like the right instincts to me, so I'm on board with re-opening the Lunch Box. And it was refreshing that, as Darlene said, she didn't have the moral high ground for once, so we avoided having yet another episode of Darlene either arguing in defense of her kids or for her kids (which is getting a bit tiring for me).

And DJ and Mary finally got a storyline! It ended in a weird place though, and this really was an overstuffed episode plotwise - I actually wish they had devoted more time to dealing with how Mary felt and DJ's struggle on how to handle the situation, so I hope that this storyline continues in a future episode. I hope they give Michael Fishman more to do in general, because he's been pretty good so far at getting a few laughs with the limited screen time he's given, and  I want to learn more about what going on with DJ; they haven't really focused on his challenges coming back from Afghanistan or raising Mary on his own, and there's some interesting potential there to explore.

[Spencer Hastings]

This was a good episode. Lecy and Laurie work  really well together as scene partners. 

I wish they’d gone deeper with the DJ and Mary story.  I’m as dark as Mary and my bi-racial nephew was very light and had very straight hair (like young DJ) until he hit puberty.  I would take him every other weekend to help his mom and when we went out people would look at me like I kidnapped him!  We are from a rural area so we got lots of looks and a few comments.  One lady that he knew through his white grandmother even asked him if he was okay when we were in Walmart.  Luckily he was in a good mood that day and not throwing a fit over the toy aisle, otherwise he absolutely would have had me sent to jail. It hit really close to home when Mary said that she hates when people assume she’s not a Conner.

[xander874]

On 10/29/2019 at 8:43 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Oh and I really liked the conversation between Mark and Mary.  It was a small scene but it was a good one. 

I would much rather have an A-story of Mary dealing with the race issue than Darlene/Ben mopiness. I do like them, but it's exhausting. I loved Mark and Mary's scene.

I thought the selling of the Lunch Box to Nancy and Leon took place during the last season after they won the lottery. So, I assume that never happened in this timeline.

[bamlou]

1 hour ago, xander874 said:

I would much rather have an A-story of Mary dealing with the race issue than Darlene/Ben mopiness. I do like them, but it's exhausting. I loved Mark and Mary's scene.

Agreed 100%. The story was worthy of its own episode (which I feel the original show would have done) rather than being squished in with two other storylines, so I do hope they continue to explore it, and how DJ is coping with Mary while Gina is away. But this would require using more of Michael Fishman, which the show seems resistant to do, so I won't be surprised if this story doesn't get explored further.

[iMonrey]

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I loved Mark and Mary's scene.

I really would have liked to see more of a conversation between Mary and DJ, her father. It's almost as if the show bends over backwards to use as little of DJ as possible. For heaven's sake, he's not that bloody awful of an actor. 

Has Crystal been on the show since it changed it's name from Roseanne to The Conners? She was a regular on the reboot but I don't think she's even been mentioned during these last two seasons.

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Has Crystal been on the show since it changed it's name from Roseanne to The Conners? She was a regular on the reboot but I don't think she's even been mentioned during these last two seasons.

Yes, she was in the premiere, and another episode in season one.  She has not yet appeared this season.

[janie jones]

On 10/30/2019 at 11:40 PM, Pete Martell said:

I wish they'd done the material with Mary when her mother was still on the show, but I do appreciate the idea, and I thought most of the scenes, like DJ not knowing what to do, and Mary feeling defeated, were strong. I had mixed feelings about her conversation with Mark, mostly because I wish the show had pointed out that a black girl making faces to "scare" people away is not going to get the same response that a white boy doing that will. I did like seeing them talk and seeing more family connections.

I see what you mean, but none of that would have happened if Mary's mom had been there.  Even if that lady at the restaurant had assumed DJ was the stepfather, the mom would have been the link that showed Mary and DJ "belonged" together, and the stranger wouldn't have assumed he had taken it upon himself to adopt a black baby.

[BeachDays]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I really would have liked to see more of a conversation between Mary and DJ, her father. It's almost as if the show bends over backwards to use as little of DJ as possible. For heaven's sake, he's not that bloody awful of an actor. 

Agreed.  And his delivery of things is just so... DJ.   It works.  Its like Mark in the original series.  He had such a quiet voice that you don’t normally get on sitcoms-  but you get in real life. I appreciate that on this show.   I love whenever we get any DJ or his family.  

[StaceyNotStacie]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I really would have liked to see more of a conversation between Mary and DJ, her father. It's almost as if the show bends over backwards to use as little of DJ as possible. For heaven's sake, he's not that bloody awful of an actor. 

I wonder if they taped more for the story and it just ended up being cut due to time. 

[Ottis]

This was the first episode since Roseanne left where no one in the family was an idiot and everyone acted or reacted in a more or less normal manner to realistic things that happen. I enjoyed it. 

They had to bring back the Lunch Box. There have been no plots with hope or any sort of intelligence from the family. Trying to restart a business where they can all help finally gives us something to work with. 

Well, I did find the bit about DJ and his daughter a bit overwrought. People assume things all the time. Look old for your age? They may think your dad is your husband. This clearly closed minded woman didn’t consider mixed race relationships  before she thought of adoptions. It doesn’t mean any slight was intended. It may have been, or may not have been. It was a moment for education, not embarrassment or anger. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Ottis

[BeachDays]

2 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

What was the point of introducing Louise as the manager of the restaurant if Becky is going to quit and work in the Lunch Box with Jackie?

I know Mark's death devastated Becky, but at some point, wouldn't it have occurred to her that working as a waitress in a bar is not what Mark wanted for her? (I understand about depression and grief, but did they ever say that Becky went to therapy to help herself cope? There are free grief groups and sliding scales for therapists.)

She did mention going to a grief group, where some man gave her his dead wife’s bracelet. 

[tessaray]

On 11/9/2019 at 9:25 PM, Ottis said:

Well, I did find the bit about DJ and his daughter a bit overwrought. People assume things all the time. Look old for your age? They may think your dad is your husband. This clearly closed minded woman didn’t consider mixed race relationships  before she thought of adoptions. It doesn’t mean any slight was intended. It may have been, or may not have been. It was a moment for education, not embarrassment or anger. 

I don't necessarily want to speak for my friends of color but that was kind of the point.  Why should the continual burden of education be on them?  It has to wear on the psyche.  Mary is just a kid and she's obviously already had to deal with too much of that crap.  And while Mark meant well, if he doesn't want stares, he can always go incognito. Mary doesn't have that option. 

I'm interested to see how the show handles it going forward.  It's a break from Darlene's issues, anyway. 

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, tessaray said:

I don't necessarily want to speak for my friends of color but that was kind of the point.  Why should the continual burden of education be on them?  It has to wear on the psyche.  Mary is just a kid and she's obviously already had to deal with too much of that crap.  And while Mark meant well, if he doesn't want stares, he can always go incognito. Mary doesn't have that option. 

I'm interested to see how the show handles it going forward.  It's a break from Darlene's issues, anyway. 

Education was clearly not the show’s point. When it happened, first the show had the daughter not want to eat ice cream, then DJ take his daughter home, as I’d she had been insulted. That was about assuming a slight. If DJ and his daughter had firmly but pleasantly made the point that he was her dad, and treated it like it as it appeared to be (a woman who assumed adoption, because there are a lot of mixed race adoptions, including Asian kids as well),  or heck, even shrugged and said “whatever,” then no one’s day had to be ruined and life could have gone on.

Lots of things happen that are annoying. People assume all kinds of stuff. But if it clearly wasn’t intended as a slight, why allow it to become one? Some people don’t think the same way and others don’t get it. Why let them affect me?

One of the first lessons we taught our kids was, “Everyone is different, and differences are OK.” That has come in handy many, many times. And it can cover all sorts of things, including older people who think in outmoded ways, if all they are doing is making an incorrect assumption while also telling me how great it is that we did something, even if they are incorrect. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Ottis

[tessaray]

I think the slight came when the woman brushed off Mary's comment that DJ was her dad.  She was definitely patronizing and oblivious. Just because she didn't think she was doing something offensive doesn't mean she wasn't. 

And again, I believe that was the part of the point. We may have the best of intentions but ignorance can be just as hurtful.  Especially to kids. 

ETA:  there was an interesting theme going on about who/what is a Conner.  Bev lumped Jackie into her negative comments about being a Conner and Mary was hurt from people's assumptions about her rightful place as a Conner.  

[tessaray]

Is it wrong that I always laugh when Dan says anything about the chickens?  I wonder if there is a BTS in-joke there? 

[CrystalBlue]

On 11/9/2019 at 7:25 PM, Ottis said:

This was the first episode since Roseanne left where no one in the family was an idiot and everyone acted or reacted in a more or less normal manner to realistic things that happen. I enjoyed it. 

They had to bring back the Lunch Box. There have been no plots with hope or any sort of intelligence from the family. Trying to restart a business where they can all help finally gives us something to work with. 

Well, I did find the bit about DJ and his daughter a bit overwrought. People assume things all the time. Look old for your age? They may think your dad is your husband. This clearly closed minded woman didn’t consider mixed race relationships  before she thought of adoptions. It doesn’t mean any slight was intended. It may have been, or may not have been. It was a moment for education, not embarrassment or anger. 

I would much rather have had DJ teach Mary not to let someone with an ignorant remark ruin our lunch together and continue to enjoy the day.

[qtpye]

On 11/12/2019 at 8:17 PM, CrystalBlue said:

I would much rather have had DJ teach Mary not to let someone with an ignorant remark ruin our lunch together and continue to enjoy the day.

It's funny that she is so sweet and did not inherit her grandmother's snark. Do you remember how Roseanne would snark on the horrible woman who owned the factory that never remembered her and treated her like a nobody? Of course most of Roseanne's quips went over the rich lady's head, but it must of helped Roseanne to feel a little better.