S02.E03: The Cord and the Ax

[maraleia]

 

Irisa’s terrifying black-outs escalate, driving a wedge of secrecy between her and a worried Nolan. Meanwhile, the Tarr family business thrives under Stahma’s self-appointed direction while an increasingly suspicious Datak remains in jail.

 

[wanderingstar]

Well, bath time at the Tarr house will never be the same again!

[SimoneS]

Damn, that was a crazy ass ending. Datak literally and figuratively bringing more dirt into his corrupt family. I cannot forgive Stahma for killing Kenya, but I don't want Datak to kill her that honor should go to Amanda. Alak is so freaking weak. Christie deserves better.

 

The good news is that Irisa is not killing people, just attacking them, and putting some kind of parasite inside them. I have no idea what her vision was about. I actually would think that Irisa was insane if they did to show us the people she attacked after. Ah, Tommy still in love with Irisa. My sympathies are with Nolan though. He is simply lost. He and Amanda are good together. 

 

I cracked up when Nolan made that high school comment to the Mayor. It was so true.

Edited July 4, 2014 by SimoneS

[johntfs]

The ending was pretty awsome, but top honors for me goes to Irisa's demon child singing to her while she's healing from shooting herself in the brain with a sniper rifle.

[wanderingstar]

but top honors for me goes to Irisa's demon child singing to her while she's healing from shooting herself in the brain with a sniper rifle.

 

 

That was super creepy and depressing. Between that scene, Amanda getting the drugs from Pottinger and the Tarr family bath, they packed a lot of really creepy/sad/crazy scenes into this episode.

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, that was certainly a good twist with Irisa's story-line.  Instead of killing them, she's actually infected them with whatever that gold thing is, and it looks like those who are infected are now doing that to other people.  And it has something to do with whatever the hell those visions are she was having on the other ship, I guess.  I really am curious about what this is all going to be about.

 

Dr. Yewll and Datak are already sprung!  And, oh boy.  That Tarr bath scene was something to behold.  For a second, I truly thought someone was going to die.  Either Datak was going to drown Stahma, or Alak was going to magically whip out the knife Stahma gave him, and take out Datak.  Yeah, this is going to be ugly and I can't wait!

 

I kind of felt bad for Nolan when Amanda sort of agreed he was a terrible father.  Imperfect, yes, but I feel like he's doing his best with Irisa, when you consider everything that has been thrown at him.  But I felt his frustrations over how Irisa would not open up to him, and how he knew something bad was happening with her, but was powerless to stop her.

 

Wish we got more of the Tarr/McCawley family dinner, just to see Rafe and Stahma's attempt at small talk.  But Rafe laying the law down on Alak was good in it's own right.

 

Amanda is continuing to get into the drugs.  I suspect this going to get darker.  The Mayor still wants her, although he better not tell her he "fancies her", because I don't see her falling for that.  I give credit to Nolan for managing not to keel over with laughter, when he said that.  But I wonder what was in that book that the Mayor wants so badly, that he was willing to re-hire Yewll and spring Datak to appease her.  Of course, with Yewll, I'm sure she'll be playing all angles.

[tricksterson]

Am thinking that Irisa's vision of the two Irathients was and ancestral memory of some kind and is linked to why she's Irzu's favorite toy.

Oh and I loved seeing Amanda get her badass on.

Edited July 4, 2014 by tricksterson

[SimoneS]

It was implied in the first season that Yewll had done experiments on other species. I wonder if that is what is in the book. I can see the Mayor being interested in genetic warfare against the Votans.

 

Rafe is in the same boat as Nolan. Despite his threats and best efforts, he cannot protect Christie from getting hurt any more than Nolan can protect Irisa. It won't be very long before Christie finds out about Alak.

Edited July 4, 2014 by SimoneS

[BestestAuntEver]

There was a lot of awesome in this episode. The alien entity singing to Irisa, finding out Irisa is infecting people vs killing them, the Tarr bath scene, Nolan losing his mind over Irisa & the vision from the spaceship.

I wasn't sure where they were going with the Alien girl & Her connection/control over Irisa. All my theories are wrong, after finding out that whatever Irisa is doing isn't killing but saving ther others. Saving them for what?

Datak's ego can't handle that not only was Stahma running things but she was making a larger profit.

[Grammaeryn]

Am thinking that Irisa's vision of the two Irathients was and ancestral memory of some kind and is linked to why she's Irzu's favorite toy.

 

The two Irathients were debating about what to do since Earth wasn't a lifeless planet. The male Irathient said something about how could they live among aliens (humans) while waiting for the rest of the ships for thousands of years. And the female with Irisa's face said they needed to take over the ship. So, this is the ship buried under Defiance. My crazy theory is that Irisa was not a child of parents who had come over with the Votan evacuation. Irisa is a child of those two Irathients from 3,000 years ago. She was kept in hypersleep until the Votans arrived.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Grammaeryn

[BungalowSummer]

Re Datak's ego, now he knows that Stahma was actively trying to keep him in prison. That's gotta enrage him as much as anything else.

I was so relieved to see that Bertie and Sukar, two of my favorites, weren't killed. I'm not thrilled with them being weaponized by Irisa and the Kaziri entity. How, exactly, is this thing saving them? So far, we've only seen Votan races infected by the keys. Who will Bertie attack -- Christie? Rafe?

[marieYOTZ]

I'm really enjoying Defiance this season.  I feel like it's really growing bolder from season 1, and that's something I appreciate.  I'm really pleased -- can already tell I'm going to be bummed when this season ends!

[SimoneS]

The two Irathients were debating about what to do since Earth wasn't a lifeless planet. The male Irathient said something about how could they live among aliens (humans) while waiting for the rest of the ships for thousands of years. And the female with Irisa's face said they needed to take over the ship. So, this is the ship buried under Defiance. My crazy theory is that Irisa was not a child of parents who had come over with the Votan evacuation. Irisa is a child of those two Irathients from 3,000 years ago. She was kept in hypersleep until the Votans arrived.

 

This is a plausible hypothesis. The little girl says that the people with the parasite are safe with her so maybe it protects them somehow from the Irathients who are on their way.

[SimoneS]

Double post.

Edited July 4, 2014 by SimoneS

[90PercentGravity]

When the mayor said "I fancy Amanda," I couldn't stop laughing because I heard "I fancy a man, duh."

[shapeshifter]

When the mayor said "I fancy Amanda," I couldn't stop laughing because I heard "I fancy a man, duh."

LOL! If this were a Choose Your Own Adventure, that would surely be one of the alternate paths.

When Nolan was ransacking Irisa's stuff for clues about what was up with her and he found the knife cases, were they empty?

Datak and Stahma have clearly underestimated each other.

[nilyank]

I did crack up when Stahma just had to smell Christine (then Alak) to know that she is pregnant. So I wonder who the baby will take after, Christine's or Alak's side of the family.

 

I want Alak to follow Rafe's advice because his family a bunch of crazy psychos and he is way over his head with both of them. His mother is sneaky psycho and his father is quick-tempered psycho.

 

Finally, if Irisa needs to infect all these people so that they will be saved, when will she attack Nolan and Tommy.

Edited July 4, 2014 by nilyank

[GaT]

I can't tell you how boring I find Irisa's storyline, it's just not interesting to me & I wish they would finish it already.

 

The ending was good, except that the actor's white makeup was coming off in the water, & I found it really distracting that they more they fought, the more "flesh" colored they became.

[johntfs]

I can't tell you how boring I find Irisa's storyline, it's just not interesting to me & I wish they would finish it already.

 

The ending was good, except that the actor's white makeup was coming off in the water, & I found it really distracting that they more they fought, the more "flesh" colored they became.

 

Castithans tend to become flush when excited in water.

 

I liked the way the show used rear nudity in this episode.  Instead of some silly butt-naked shower scene, they have Datak looking like some primordial Casti barbarian coming to sack Stahma's Rome.

[shapeshifter]

The ending was good, except that the actor's white makeup was coming off in the water, & I found it really distracting that they more they fought, the more "flesh" colored they became.

Yeah. I had been trying to fanwank that Datak had gotten sunburned in the prison yard, but it's not quite working.

[tricksterson]

Did they confirm that Christie and Alak's child would be a boy or was Rafe just being a sexist and assuming that he'd have a grandson rather than a granddaughter?

[90PercentGravity]

Maybe only Castian Y chromosomes are compatible with human X chromosomes.

[Izeinwinter]

It's not a parasite - I think what it is is a nano-tech apparatus to scan people's brains in sufficient detail to rebuild them. This is a destructive process, hence the bodies, but the AI can, and does, resurrect them.

So.. Irisa is uploading people to the ship AI core, it builds them new bodies with similar nanotech as she has added, then sends them out to do the same to more people. Immortality all around. Not just "hard to kill" immortality, either, actual "My mind is backed up offsite" immortality. Well, that is certainly one way to interpret a terminal value to preserve life. There is a pretty strong implication she did this to Nolan a long time ago, too - otherwise, how did he get back up in the first season finale? Well, maybe he was just infected with the tech from long exposure, and hasn't actually been added to the archives. 

 

This means Irisa can't die as long as the ship AI is operational. And with 3000 years to prepare, It is probably so dug in and multiply redundantly backed up that smashing the earth into an asteroid belt would only mildly inconvenience it. 

 

Lets see, implications: The Irzu arrives at earth a heck of a lot in advance of the Arks, presumably because it is built to fly fast rather than to "Move as many people as practical". The two crew members we saw had some considerable objection to obliterating the earth as it was to prepare for the arks what with it having natives on it, and successfully prevent it, reprogram the AI to.. "ensure coexistence" ? Well, if nobody can die, genocide is definitely off the table. so backing everyone up would satisfy that directive..

 

Anyone have any guesses what the doc's project is? It isn't related to the AI, but other than that.. Repair the reactor? 

Edited July 4, 2014 by Izeinwinter

[SimoneS]

Izeinwinter, did you figure this out from the show or the game? This is very interesting albeit confusing. I have a couple of questions.

 

1. Does this mean that all the people who have been scanned cannot die and will come back to life like Nolan and Irisa?

2. Why is this all happening now?

[Izeinwinter]

The show, and being steeped in SF like it was a teapot. 

1: Think so. Heck, vaporize them into atoms, and all they loose is their memories since last "server update". 

2: Now I am moving into guessing territory:  Because the AI got it's hands on Irisa now. The Resurrection tech wasn't something the scoutship had with it at all, it was a research project meant to save everyone in their home star system from doom - it was obviously impossible to load everyone onto star ships as living breathing people, or even as frozen peoplcicles. but back up their brains onto harddrive, and suddenly each of them weighs nearly nothing and needs no life support in transit. That way everyone could be saved. Except they didn't finish in time. The Irzu had 3000 years to do work on the problem, so when it got it's hands on the prototype Irisa was implanted with by the crazy, crazy people.. 

Edited July 4, 2014 by Izeinwinter

[wanderingstar]

Last night's ep has me worried about Amanda. How far are they going to take her down this path? 

 

Also, I continue to hate Pottinger.

[sjohnson]

I'm a fan of Graham Greene, so this portrayal of him as a half-witted thug is unpleasant. His character may enjoy abusing Alak but it doesn't help his daughter.

Alak needs to get over his pride and actually tell Christie he wants out of the family business, which means she needs to be ready to pack...either to go home to Daddy or to be ready to run. But she needs to play a role. (Which goes for the actress too!)

 

In a just world, Izewinter's notions are correct. I like his version very much. I still can't imagine why an AI wouldn't simply talk to Irisa. But when a show has managed to dig itself into a hole, better to retcon than to keep digging!

[Izeinwinter]

It was gaslighting her to stop her from looking up it's command codes in the historical archives? That, or being alone for thousands of years has made it more than a bit crazy. The flashback implies it has decided to tell her what is going on, I think. 

[SimoneS]

Izeinwinter, I really like your hypothesis about what is going on. It is the first time any of it makes a bit of sense to me. I have more questions.

 

1) AI is on the ship that is below Defiance correct? Does anyone know that it is there? 

2) Since the earth is not in doomed isn't AI killing people and altering their lives unnecessarily?

3) Can AI be stopped? Do you think this will eventually be a plot if the show lasts long enough?

4) If AI/the ship is destroyed or the earth is destroyed then everyone scanned would die/disappear?

5) Most intriguing, if the ship becomes operational and leaves the earth would everyone scanned would die/disappear on the earth and go with the ship? Can they be regenerated on another planet?

 

I think that Defiance has really improved this season. Each episode has held my interest so far and now I understand more about what is going on with Irisa, I am more intrigued with where the story is going.

 

I was glad to find out that Dr. Yewll could graft back on her finger. Better than nothing.

Edited July 4, 2014 by SimoneS

[Chaos Theory]

That Tarr bath scene was something to behold.  For a second, I truly thought someone was going to die.  Either Datak was going to drown Stahma, or Alak was going to magically whip out the knife Stahma gave him, and take out Datak.  Yeah, this is going to be ugly and I can't wait!

 

The Brady Bunch they ain't.  I was looking at all their faces just to see how much makeup washed off after the scene and Jaime Murray's face almost looked back to normal.  It was weird.

 

 

Amanda is continuing to get into the drugs.  I suspect this going to get darker.  The Mayor still wants her, although he better not tell her he "fancies her", because I don't see her falling for that.  

Like any good stalker worth his salt.  Cut off her usual drug connection and be the only one in town so she has to "partake" with him.  Its actually a pretty smart plan considering the fact I don't think he actually has a drug problem and she does.   Oh and that scene in the Need/Want where she kicked the dude's ass was all kinds of awesome.  

[SimoneS]

I did like that Nolan recognized that Amanda was high. I think that he will want or try to help her, but Irisa will be his priority. Amanda is going to have to save herself  from her drug problem and ultimately, the Mayor.

[Izeinwinter]

1: Most of the people who knew are dead. I think the Doc is in the know, but she appears to not want to poke the machine god with any sticks. 

 

2: It's an AI - it just gained the ability to make biological minds as hard to kill permanently as it is itself. Not doing so is likely about as acceptable to it as it would be to you to.. sit on a vaccine while a pandemic kills the world. From it's perspective, *everyone it hasn't converted is currently dying*, and will croak alarmingly soon from time alone, let alone any of the plentora of other dangers in the defiance universe.  - the volge, the military tensions, the hellbugs..

 

3: Heck, for all we know it is still operating to specs and is hiding to avoid having anyone with official authority fuck with the program. See point 2. So maybe all it would take to stop it is a properly countersigned order from someone of sufficient rank. 

 

4: Depends on implementation. I dont think Irisa and the rest depend on the ship mind for continual survival- That would be sloppy. Or a deliberate insurance policy. But it probably is effectively indestructible at this point. The ship has been in the solar system since the most advanced tech here was bronze - With that much time to prepare, it could have buried backup nodes on every major moon and planet in the solar system. So violence or accident? Not a likely threat. 

 

5: "move everyone to another world" would be the original point of the design, so.. yhea, it could do that. It might in fact be obligated to if it wants to leave. That doesn't seem likely as long as earth isn't actually smashed into pieces however.  

Edited July 4, 2014 by Izeinwinter

[wanderingstar]

Have to say that over the last couple of eps, I've come to enjoy the Nolan/Amanda relationship. Big change from last season when the pairing kind of bored me.

[QuiGonJ]

I would have to agree that this season is coming into its own. Last season the stories were standard tropes, like get the perp to prison and revenge the white man who still kills strangers for land, but this season the writers have begun to own their characters and the story. Berlin didn't get much screen time, but I am beginning to actually like her, which I didn't expect. If the writers are up here reading this... Good job!

[Izeinwinter]

Berlin only had one scene, but it was very good - she was sympathetic towards Irisa, who was entirely distracted by the murder and mayhem. Its a dynamic that also worked very well for the hundred - not indulging in love triangle drama because more important things are happening. 

Edited July 4, 2014 by Izeinwinter

[SimoneS]

Izeinwinter, I really hope that the writers have thought out this mytharc because your vision is excellent! Thanks. 

[jhlipton]

Oh and that scene in the Need/Want where she kicked the dude's ass was all kinds of awesome.

It was, but she handled it poorly. The "night porter" should know better, and know how to handle an angry client. (That's the difference between Kendra and Amanda -- Kendra would have defused the situation and had a short chat with the porter. Amanda let it escalate.)

The Tarr family situation is pretty fun. Alak might be able to disappear for a bit while Mummy and Daddy work on their marital issues.

[shapeshifter]

Perhaps a silly question: What is the meaning of "The cord and the axe"?

[ottoDbusdriver]

Perhaps a silly question: What is the meaning of "The cord and the axe"?

 

 

Did a Google search and this excerpt came up in the 'Memoirs of Oliver Cromwell and his children':

 

"Die--no, not to-night; blessed be the hour of vengeance.  No, no, it will not be to-night; I should curse myself if thine were a death so tranquil.  No, no, for there is the cord and the axe, the stare of the vulgar, the curses of the people, the fate of infamy; thou shalt not die as a brave man should. No, no, no, no. First I would tear this bosom."

 

Seems somewhat appropriate.

 

ETA: Alternatively, the cord refers to a slow painful death, while the axe refers to a quick death.

Edited July 5, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[RealityGal]

LOL! If this were a Choose Your Own Adventure, that would surely be one of the alternate paths.

When Nolan was ransacking Irisa's stuff for clues about what was up with her and he found the knife cases, were they empty?

Datak and Stahma have clearly underestimated each other.

 

Choose your own adventure!  I remember that and I thought I was the only one, I used to love those books!

 

I did crack up when Stahma just had to smell Christine (then Alak) to know that she is pregnant. So I wonder who the baby will take after, Christine's or Alak's side of the family.

 

I want Alak to follow Rafe's advice because his family a bunch of crazy psychos and he is way over his head with both of them. His mother is sneaky psycho and his father is quick-tempered psycho.

 

Finally, if Irisa needs to infect all these people so that they will be saved, when will she attack Nolan and Tommy.

 

I don't care who that kid looks like, I bet Stahma gets her hands on him (for some reason, I'm assuming it will be a little boy) to turn him into her vision of what a perfect man should be.  For Stahma's taste Alak is too weak, and Datak is too quick tempered.  

[SimoneS]

I don't care who that kid looks like, I bet Stahma gets her hands on him (for some reason, I'm assuming it will be a little boy) to turn him into her vision of what a perfect man should be.  For Stahma's taste Alak is too weak, and Datak is too quick tempered.  

 

I don't see Stahma living that long. Of all her crimes, I think killing Kenya sealed her doom. Between Amanda and Nolan, Stahma is dead woman walking. I expect that Rafe will be stomping her and Datak when he gets his mines back. Alak should have taken Rafe's threat seriously and extricated himself from his family business.

[RealityGal]

I don't see Stahma living that long. Of all her crimes, I think killing Kenya sealed her doom. Between Amanda and Nolan, Stahma is dead woman walking. I expect that Rafe will be stomping her and Datak when he gets his mines back. Alak should have taken Rafe's threat seriously and extricated himself from his family business.

 

I don't know.  Stahma seems a little more important to the show than Kenya.  She is such an interesting villain IMO.  Don't get me wrong, I think Kenya was important, but I think killing off Stahma would create almost an imbalance in the show.  Datak is evil, but not as smart as Stahma.  And I think her trying to take control of Alak and Christine's baby makes sense.  But thats just my opinion, they could kill off Stahma and have Christine take over her place as the evil puppetmaster in that family.  That would be interesting too.  So you could be right, or Stahma finds a way to blame Kenyas death on Datak somehow....

[ramble]

I'm still clinging to hope that Kenya is alive. I think it could be interesting & maybe throw a wrench in Nolan & Amanda's activities. I actively loathe them together.

[RealityGal]

I'm still clinging to hope that Kenya is alive. I think it could be interesting & maybe throw a wrench in Nolan & Amanda's activities. I actively loathe them together.

 

Oh thats too much!  I was thinking the exact same thing.  There are some shows where if you don't see the person actually go INTO the ground or if they don't die in a pool of very obvious blood or there is still a chance they are alive.  Since this show brought Nolan back from the dead, and had us thinking Irisa had killed Birdie I feel like there might be a chance that Kenya is still alive.

 

You know, there is just something about Julie Benz that can quickly rub me wrong.  I don't blame her for it, because frankly, I feel the same way about carrots.   But ever since her Dexter days there was just something about her that I'm not 100% into.  Even though I remember liking her character on Dexter, I didn't particularly like her playing the role.  So, long story short, I'm with you on not liking her and Nolan together.

 

I prefer Stahma to them both.  In my advanced age I've started to see these villians as real women who aren't as one dimensional as good and evil.  When i was watching Once Upon a Time, my favorite character by far was the evil Queen.

[ramble]

You know, there is just something about Julie Benz that can quickly rub me wrong. I don't blame her for it, because frankly, I feel the same way about carrots.

Bwah! That's a great way to put it, although I don't mind carrots. I'd probably go with celery. A little goes a long way.

I agree with you that on tv a person can always come back from the "dead" one way or another. Sukar came back from the acid bath of death so I like to think there's still a small possibility of life for Kenya.

Stahma is an enjoyable character. I like watching her play at being meek as she rules. It's nicely layered. I also have a huge girl crush on Jaime Murray from her Warehouse 13 days.

[johntfs]

I keep remembering Julie Benz as Darla from Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel.  During the bar fight I kept expecting her to vamp out and just toss the asshole through a wall.

 

As for Kenya, I liked the character okay, but she really needs to stay dead/gone.

 

I will say I'd be okay if Amanda dumped Nolan for a little bit, but only because I want to see her get together with Stahma just for the sheer, hot, evil mind-fuckery of it.

[madfortv]

The show is too dark and depressing for my taste. I tried to get into it this season but it hasn't clicked with me.

[Chaos Theory]

 

 

You know, there is just something about Julie Benz that can quickly rub me wrong.  I don't blame her for it, because frankly, I feel the same way about carrots.  

 

And here Julie Benz was a selling point for me.  I've loved her since her Darla days on Buffy.  to each is own I guess.    Her season one storyline was kind of disappointing but only kinda.  I am really interested in her season 2 one though.  It is really shaping up to be interesting.  (I like a good downward spiral.)  

Edited July 6, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[RealityGal]

And here Julie Benz was a selling point for me.  I've loved her since her Darla days on Buffy.  to each is own I guess.    Her season one storyline was kind of disappointing but only kinda.  I am really interested in her season 2 one though.  It is really shaping up to be interesting.  (I like a good downward spiral.)  

and I appreciate that.  Almost everyone I know likes carrots, I despise carrots.  I hate broccoli, a lot of people love broccoli.  I know that the way I feel about Julie Benz is the same way I feel about carrots, its all personal preference.  I can't point to anything wrong, like I can with Kerry Washington's overacting in Scandal.  Julie Benz is my actress broccoli.  But her characters transformation season 2 is interesting.

[Loandbehold]

 

Oh thats too much!  I was thinking the exact same thing.  There are some shows where if you don't see the person actually go INTO the ground or if they don't die in a pool of very obvious blood or there is still a chance they are alive.  Since this show brought Nolan back from the dead, and had us thinking Irisa had killed Birdie I feel like there might be a chance that Kenya is still alive.

Well, there's dead, and then there's "head-on-a-stick" dead.*

 

 

Stahma is an enjoyable character. I like watching her play at being meek as she rules. It's nicely layered. I also have a huge girl crush on Jaime Murray from her Warehouse 13 days.

 

For me (as a guy), it was when I saw her on Hustle. The word I'd use to describe her was luminous when she first appeared on screen.

 

I will say I'd be okay if Amanda dumped Nolan for a little bit, but only because I want to see her get together with Stahma just for the sheer, hot, evil mind-fuckery of it.

Amen brother. 

 

* FarScape reference.