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S02.E04: All Those Yesterdays


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Another touching episode but I have to admit i'm glad Joy is leaving. Cara being back in New York made things feel like normal. 

I would guess that Joy giving the little girl that photo will prompt her to dig deeper about where she comes for when she gets a little older. It kinda seems like she's pacified for now.

I'm glad that Cara is giving her mother a chance, I have enjoyed the continuing evolution of their relationship. The whole time I was thinking why doesn't she just stay with Miles? But I liked Cara's answer about not putting pressure on the relationship, I feel like the writers are handling Miles and Cara's relationship with care. 

I Knew Arthur couldn't stay retired. lol

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Well, it's as I hoped and predicted, that once Joy got her daughter situation "resolved" she would be on her way and the God Account would once again target Miles for friend suggestions.  And that's for the best, for both us and the show, in my opinion.  Already this episode felt a little more like season 1.  Although there were a few things that irked me, like Miles being so overbearing and sticking his nose in when Joy clearly didn't want him to do it.  And it WAS her friend suggestion, so I was with her on telling him it was hers to solve.....I personally don't know if it's "for the best" that Joy didn't reveal her identity to her daughter.  That could be more destructive than constructive in the long run.  If I were her daughter and later found out the truth I might feel betrayed and not trust my mother not to somehow betray and leave me again.  I'm having a hard time understanding why now was somehow not the time to reveal who she was to her daughter.  It seems as though all the reasons Joy was worried about doing so were not really factors anymore.  I don't think I would have been able to keep my mouth shut in that situation if I were in Joy's position.

I did like it that Cara is going to take her mom up on living with her for a while.  At least that should be somewhat interesting.  I'm hoping the show continues to go back to being more like it was last season with Joy gone.  

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2 hours ago, mommalib said:

I Knew Arthur couldn't stay retired. lol

I know, me too.  I really don't like how manipulative of him Trish is.  She acts like she wants Arthur to do nothing but revolve around her 24/7, but that's not who he is nor should he have to be. She seems to want everything her way and he tends to give in to her too much.  If she loves him she should be more supportive of him and what he wants to do with his life apart from her.   And he really needs to grow a pair, lol. 

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So trope-a-licious!  Then, they went and got real, and deeper.  Nice fake out, TPTB!

I was not a happy camper when Joy got all righteous as to Lauren's "needs."  "Needs" are a particular touchstone for me IRL.  In my experience folks get themselves into serious difficulty by talking themselves into the "need" for something that is not a need at all.  Joy was going headlong into a familiar morass.  Then...wisdom struck her on a bus.  

I'll be darned, however, how the Episcopal community would take kindly to the quitting priest who took his toys when he was not made Bishop.  THIS is the man to navigate the political waters in that city/Diocese?  The place where he was rejected?!  Was there no consultation with the Bishop who got the gig?  And...Trish is way too demanding while offering no specific pathways.  This whole arc is a mess, imo.

The show is definitely going back to its roots with the leads having zero concerns with making a living.  They come and go as they please.  Nice unwork if you can get it!

Still and all, this was a pretty great episode overall.  It was layered and the payoffs were realistic and they were satisfying - and not perfect.  Miles got some comeuppance and it was nice to see.  After some humility?  Hello God Account.  Good stuff.

We're not done with Joy and Lauren, not by a longshot.  Perhaps a special Christmas ep?  I would like that.

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2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I personally don't know if it's "for the best" that Joy didn't reveal her identity to her daughter.  That could be more destructive than constructive in the long run.  If I were her daughter and later found out the truth I might feel betrayed and not trust my mother not to somehow betray and leave me again.  I'm having a hard time understanding why now was somehow not the time to reveal who she was to her daughter.  It seems as though all the reasons Joy was worried about doing so were not really factors anymore.  I don't think I would have been able to keep my mouth shut in that situation if I were in Joy's position.

I agree  that this was a bad decision. If she hadn't given Lauren the photo of her grandfather Joy could have later pretended that she didn't know that Lauren was her daughter and avoid that drama. But now she won't be able to do that so it will cause problems if/when Lauren eventually finds out the truth.

And why couldn't Cara and Rakesh have stayed at the art exhibit to talk to the artist? They could have done that withour Miles being there. And it's not like the whole group had to be at the bus station to help with Lauren.

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2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I know, me too.  I really don't like how manipulative of him Trish is.  She acts like she wants Arthur to do nothing but revolve around her 24/7, but that's not who he is nor should he have to be. She seems to want everything her way and he tends to give in to her too much.  If she loves him she should be more supportive of him and what he wants to do with his life apart from her.   And he really needs to grow a pair, lol. 

I'm thinking him and Trish might not last.

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2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Well, it's as I hoped and predicted, that once Joy got her daughter situation "resolved" she would be on her way and the God Account would once again target Miles for friend suggestions.  And that's for the best, for both us and the show, in my opinion.  Already this episode felt a little more like season 1.  Although there were a few things that irked me, like Miles being so overbearing and sticking his nose in when Joy clearly didn't want him to do it.  And it WAS her friend suggestion, so I was with her on telling him it was hers to solve.....I personally don't know if it's "for the best" that Joy didn't reveal her identity to her daughter.  That could be more destructive than constructive in the long run.  If I were her daughter and later found out the truth I might feel betrayed and not trust my mother not to somehow betray and leave me again.  I'm having a hard time understanding why now was somehow not the time to reveal who she was to her daughter.  It seems as though all the reasons Joy was worried about doing so were not really factors anymore.  I don't think I would have been able to keep my mouth shut in that situation if I were in Joy's position.

I did like it that Cara is going to take her mom up on living with her for a while.  At least that should be somewhat interesting.  I'm hoping the show continues to go back to being more like it was last season with Joy gone.  

I don't think Miles was being overbearing, he's doing what he's supposed to do and that's help her. If anything it's joy who's being combative and dismissive at the same time like she knows everything. And she's been like this from day 1. She needs to understand that Miles is more experienced than her in dealing with suggestions. And if it wasn't for Miles digging deeper and finding out about the grandfather we might not have gotten the resolution we got.

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7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

a few things that irked me, like Miles being so overbearing and sticking his nose in when Joy clearly didn't want him to do it.  And it WAS her friend suggestion, so I was with her on telling him it was hers to solve.....

7 hours ago, Yeah No said:
9 hours ago, mommalib said:

I Knew Arthur couldn't stay retired. lol

I know, me too.  I really don't like how manipulative of him Trish is

Frickin’ everyone is manipulative in this show. I find the control issues of the characters very irritating, as I would in real life. What I can’t figure out is: Are we supposed to spot the control freaks in each episode and then see the life lesson of letting go? Or…?

Similarly, there are as many bad decisions by supposedly functioning characters on the show.  Like:

4 hours ago, paulvdb said:

I agree  that this was a bad decision. If she hadn't given Lauren the photo of her grandfather Joy could have later…

And why couldn't Cara and Rakesh have stayed at the art exhibit to talk to the artist? They could have done that withour Miles being there. And it's not like the whole group had to be at the bus station to help with Lauren.

Lauren is a minor child. Joy’s only legitimate choice (IMO) would be to approach Lauren’s legal parents and maybe offer a copy of the picture of the great grandfather and tell them about him. And then maybe they would figure out who she was and so on, with the adults acting like adults who genuinely care for Lauren’s well-being.

But then, in this show, Joy and Lauren’s parents would get into a wrestling match for control of the outcome.

I skipped last week’s episode to spend time with a visiting adult daughter and didn’t bother to catch the episode later. The only reason to watch the show is if I want to be manipulated into a few heartwarming tears. I’m not sure how many more episodes I will watch. Even this week’s was relegated to the background while I worked on a project.

**********
 

4 hours ago, mommalib said:

I'm thinking him and Trish might not last.

In real life, he and Trish would not last because of the control issues.

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18 hours ago, mommalib said:

I don't think Miles was being overbearing, he's doing what he's supposed to do and that's help her. If anything it's joy who's being combative and dismissive at the same time like she knows everything. And she's been like this from day 1. She needs to understand that Miles is more experienced than her in dealing with suggestions. And if it wasn't for Miles digging deeper and finding out about the grandfather we might not have gotten the resolution we got.

It's what constitutes "help" that I have the issue with where Miles is concerned.  The God account gave Joy her daughter as a friend suggestion, not him.  So to me that meant it was for her to figure out, with his help, not for him to bulldoze over her to figure out himself.  Miles should have given his opinion but in the end he shouldn't have been so overbearing about it and should have backed off somewhat when she thought she knew better how to handle it.  I don't like the idea that he didn't need someone "directing" him when he was new at this but she somehow did just because her style is different from his?  I personally think that if Miles had not butt his nose in so far she would have been able to reveal herself at least to her adoptive parents, and it wouldn't have been such a bad thing like the show wants us to think it would be.  I think it would have been OK for Miles to help her to wait until the time was right, like at the very end at the beach scene, but not dissuade her from doing it altogether.  I don't think this was the perfect resolution to this situation, unlike pretty much all of the other situations on this show.  The perfect resolution would have allowed Joy's daughter to know her mother, like she so desperately wants.

 

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Lauren is a minor child. Joy’s only legitimate choice (IMO) would be to approach Lauren’s legal parents and maybe offer a copy of the picture of the great grandfather and tell them about him. And then maybe they would figure out who she was and so on, with the adults acting like adults who genuinely care for Lauren’s well-being.

But then, in this show, Joy and Lauren’s parents would get into a wrestling match for control of the outcome.

I agree that Joy should have shown the photo to Lauren's adoptive parents and maybe told them who she was, but tell them that it was their choice whether or not she should reveal who she was to Lauren just yet.  Leave it up to them for now until Lauren is an adult and can make her own decisions.  If they said "no" she could always take this up later in Lauren's life, but at least she would have made the effort.

19 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

We're not done with Joy and Lauren, not by a longshot.  Perhaps a special Christmas ep?  I would like that.

Now I would like that.  Perhaps then the other shoe can finally drop and they'll have their real reconciliation.

Edited by Yeah No
clarity
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9 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

I thought at the end there, adoptive mom understood Joy was birth mom.  That moment nearly brought tears to my eyes, showing that understanding.

That's interesting, but that didn't come across to me.

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When she asked about how Joy just happened to have a pic of the grandad already, almost like Joy already had it with her.  And Joy responded about how anyone should be proud to have a daughter like that, she knew she would be, they both gave each other a look with tears in their eyes.  

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11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I know, me too.  I really don't like how manipulative of him Trish is.  She acts like she wants Arthur to do nothing but revolve around her 24/7, but that's not who he is nor should he have to be. She seems to want everything her way and he tends to give in to her too much.  If she loves him she should be more supportive of him and what he wants to do with his life apart from her.   And he really needs to grow a pair, lol. 

Yeah, I'm not sure how compatible Arthur and Trish actually, are, TBH.

My friend's father was a partner at a multinational law firm and haaaaaaaaaated retirement. He now does pro bono work about 30 hours a week, and he also has young grandkids (two in the same city, two two hours away) he spends time with. But just being at home all day wasn't for him, period. Arthur is clearly the same way.

2 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

When she asked about how Joy just happened to have a pic of the grandad already, almost like Joy already had it with her.  And Joy responded about how anyone should be proud to have a daughter like that, she knew she would be, they both gave each other a look with tears in their eyes.  

Yeah, I assumed the adoptive mom figured it out. I kept thinking that if I were the kid, when it comes out that Joy is the birth mother (and I assume it will, either because the adoptive mother will tell her or because she'll do some digging with the photo and figure it out - a quick Google Image search of the photo will lead her right to Joy's FB page), I would wonder why she hadn't told me when we met.

10 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The show is definitely going back to its roots with the leads having zero concerns with making a living.  They come and go as they please.  Nice unwork if you can get it!

Well, Miles seems to run his podcast full-time, which technically means he IS working when he's on these God account missions. I remember him saying he'd quit his job at the tech company to do his podcast. Cara is unemployed at the moment. Rakesh is the only one with a full-time job.

This is kind of random, but when Miles said Cara could stay with him I thought "Is this the kind of show that doesn't acknowledge that sex exists?" Like, if Cara DID stay with Miles, would they have her sleeping on the couch?

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2 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I thought at the end there, adoptive mom understood Joy was birth mom.  That moment nearly brought tears to my eyes, showing that understanding.

That was my first thought, as well.  Then I looked verrrrry closely at the not-Joy mom.  The actress did not change expression from the one she had before and during the time she asked the question.  Not a quick look back at Joy (signifying some new thought), not anything.  If that meaning was supposed to have been conveyed, my belief is it would have been made much more obvious.  The show typically hits us over the head with a metaphorical hammer when we are to infer such important understandings. 

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4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

It's what constitutes "help" that I have the issue with where Miles is concerned.  The God account gave Joy her daughter as a friend suggestion, not him.  So to me that meant it was for her to figure out, with his help, not for him to bulldoze over her to figure out himself.  Miles should have given his opinion but in the end he shouldn't have been so overbearing about it and should have backed off somewhat when she thought she knew better how to handle it.  I don't like the idea that he didn't need someone "directing" him when he was new at this but she somehow did just because her style is different from his?  I personally think that if Miles had not butt his nose in so far she would have been able to reveal herself at least to her adoptive parents, and it wouldn't have been such a bad thing like the show wants us to think it would be.  I think it would have been OK for Miles to help her to wait until the time was right, like at the very end at the beach scene, but not dissuade her from doing it altogether.  I don't think this was the perfect resolution to this situation, unlike pretty much all of the other situations on this show.  The perfect resolution would have allowed Joy's daughter to know her mother, like she so desperately wants.

The girl is young and like they said her adopted parents weren't on the same page as far as her finding out about her real parentage. Joy rushing in their and just dropping the bomb could have caused major damage for the family. She was getting ready to be a bull in a china shop like she had been from day 1 and Miles stopped her from doing that, She was being to emotional and making it about her. Miles was just telling her that some things deserve to be handled with more care. No the resolution wasn't perfect but it doesn't always have to be as far as i'm concerned. 

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4 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I thought at the end there, adoptive mom understood Joy was birth mom.  That moment nearly brought tears to my eyes, showing that understanding.

3 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

When she asked about how Joy just happened to have a pic of the grandad already, almost like Joy already had it with her.  And Joy responded about how anyone should be proud to have a daughter like that, she knew she would be, they both gave each other a look with tears in their eyes.  

That's what I saw too, but it was subtle enough that I suppose it could have been missed

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3 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

When she asked about how Joy just happened to have a pic of the grandad already, almost like Joy already had it with her.  And Joy responded about how anyone should be proud to have a daughter like that, she knew she would be, they both gave each other a look with tears in their eyes.  

Yeah I think the mom knows. This could be revisited down the line.

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17 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I know, me too.  I really don't like how manipulative of him Trish is.  She acts like she wants Arthur to do nothing but revolve around her 24/7, but that's not who he is nor should he have to be. She seems to want everything her way and he tends to give in to her too much.  If she loves him she should be more supportive of him and what he wants to do with his life apart from her.   And he really needs to grow a pair, lol. 

This!!!!! 

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9 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I thought at the end there, adoptive mom understood Joy was birth mom.  That moment nearly brought tears to my eyes, showing that understanding.

Yeah, I thought the adoptive mom definitely figured it out too.

7 hours ago, Empress1 said:

This is kind of random, but when Miles said Cara could stay with him I thought "Is this the kind of show that doesn't acknowledge that sex exists?" Like, if Cara DID stay with Miles, would they have her sleeping on the couch?

I was wondering that. Miles and Cara had barely started dating when she left for Paris. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but it didn't seem like they'd had time to have sex. I would expect a show where two characters get together to have an acknowledgement of their first time.

But last season we saw Rakesh and his girlfriend having sex on their first date.

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52 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Yeah, I thought the adoptive mom definitely figured it out too.

I was wondering that. Miles and Cara had barely started dating when she left for Paris. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but it didn't seem like they'd had time to have sex. I would expect a show where two characters get together to have an acknowledgement of their first time.

She did figure it out because after they looked each other in the face and she could see Joy openly crying, she looked away - staring at her daughter and husband - and started crying as well when Joy said the last lines about being proud. 

I can't decide if the Show wants us to think Miles and Cara are too sweet and pure together to be thinking about sex ... or if Cara's comment about not wanting to put pressure on the relationship by staying with him is supposed to be a very subtle message to the audience that she does not feel ready to have sex with him yet. 

The grocery store scene where Joy watched the family argument right in front of her that was actually about what she was going to tell them was eye-roll worthy contrived.  I also didn't like her talking about "my daughter's needs" and life "falling apart." The falling apart line was melodramatic; a kid acting out a little for a few weeks is not a 'life falling apart." She was not caught smoking/with drugs, getting in trouble for fighting at school, court date for something illegal, etc. She doesn't know anything about the girl's needs because the girl has her adoptive parents raising her. She was looking for a valid reason to go tell the girl "I'm your mother" because she lost her grandfather and wanted to connect with her only other "family member." Miles was right to call her out on that; the consequences to the family could have been ugly if all three got blindsided due to Joy's impulse.

Joy needed to stop her from leaving on that bus, so giving her the great grandfather's picture with a quick explanation was the right way to do that in the moment. Telling her "I'm your mother" without first having a conversation with/getting permission from the parents would have been totally out of line.  Full disclosure on topic sensitivity: two white friends adopted children of color and people have said stuff like, "Does his real mother miss him?"  

A private conversation with the parents after the scene at the bus terminal, maybe on the beach, would be appropriate in order to decide if and when she should known the whole truth. I would think that this 13-year-old should be wondering why a woman I've met just a few times briefly is standing next to mom, watching my surf lesson.

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20 hours ago, mommalib said:

I don't think Miles was being overbearing, he's doing what he's supposed to do and that's help her. If anything it's joy who's being combative and dismissive at the same time like she knows everything. And she's been like this from day 1. She needs to understand that Miles is more experienced than her in dealing with suggestions. And if it wasn't for Miles digging deeper and finding out about the grandfather we might not have gotten the resolution we got.

Am I the only one creeped out by the constant privacy invasions? "Oh, I'll track her phone and tell you where she is." And looking into Joy's past, and finding out about her grandfather dying? Almost as unrealistic is the way everyone just shrugs and accepts these privacy violations. I think a lot of people would tell Miles, et al to butt out.

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10 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

That was my first thought, as well.  Then I looked verrrrry closely at the not-Joy mom.  The actress did not change expression from the one she had before and during the time she asked the question.  Not a quick look back at Joy (signifying some new thought), not anything.  If that meaning was supposed to have been conveyed, my belief is it would have been made much more obvious.  The show typically hits us over the head with a metaphorical hammer when we are to infer such important understandings. 

Thank you, that's exactly what I thought. Most shows, especially this one, don't convey something that important so subtly that I would miss it - because I never miss stuff like that.  Joy's adoptive mom definitely would have shown some expression of recognition after that exchange.  And the fact that she did not is exactly why I didn't read it that way.  I don't even think the show's purpose was to be deliberately ambiguous about it either.  If so it would have actually been more deliberate in its ambiguity, if you can wrap your mind around that.  Even if we're supposed to be left wondering whether the mother suspects something, she would have at least had a puzzled expression on her face at the end.

9 hours ago, mommalib said:

The girl is young and like they said her adopted parents weren't on the same page as far as her finding out about her real parentage. Joy rushing in their and just dropping the bomb could have caused major damage for the family. She was getting ready to be a bull in a china shop like she had been from day 1 and Miles stopped her from doing that, She was being to emotional and making it about her. Miles was just telling her that some things deserve to be handled with more care. No the resolution wasn't perfect but it doesn't always have to be as far as i'm concerned. 

Well, I don't always have to have a perfect resolution, but this show is famous for the almost too pat, lightening fast perfect resolution so I don't think I'm off base in expecting it to be true to form here as well.

I wasn't against Miles putting in his two cents in to stop her from revealing who she was before it was a good time to do so, like on the bus, but I definitely thought it was the right time at the very end at the beach scene for her to at least let the mom in on the secret, but because Miles was so hard on Joy she was afraid to do that even then.  

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I'm also in the camp of those thinking the adoptive mom realized who Joy is. It was very subtly done because they were both supposed to act like people who willfully ignore the obvious in order to prevent things going into a direction where one can't go back. Otherwise the whole scene with the mother asking the obvious question of how Joy got the photo so quickly pointing out that it looked as if she had had it already with her makes no sense. It's also a pretty perfect solution to the dilemma. Lauren has the clues to unlock her past any further if she wants to - and her adoptive parents will not have to worry about what she'll find. For the moment she's happy with what she has and when she's older and gets to the truth chances are she will understand and appreciate what Joy did for her. It's a pretty unusual solution for a set-up like this on a tv show and I really like it.

As for Arthur and Trish - I don't want to watch Joe Morton getting tennis lessons so I'm okay with that plot as long as they get a gig for Trish too. Right now the writing for her is not good as the discussion here shows. What do we even know about her beyond that she sold her shop? And didn't she own a farm? 

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8 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I'm also in the camp of those thinking the adoptive mom realized who Joy is. It was very subtly done because they were both supposed to act like people who willfully ignore the obvious in order to prevent things going into a direction where one can't go back. Otherwise the whole scene with the mother asking the obvious question of how Joy got the photo so quickly pointing out that it looked as if she had had it already with her makes no sense.

I actually think the step mother doesn't want to think Joy is Lauren's birth mom so yes there may be some denial there but even if that were the case it didn't read to me as a conscious effort.  I think she is suspicious about Joy in general but a lot of the God account's friend suggestions are suspicious about Miles, Cara and Joy in general just because they seem to know so much about them so fast.  To me that doesn't necessarily add up to the step mom connecting the dots to think that Joy is Lauren's birth mom.  If Rakesh can do a little web search and find out all he finds out about people, Joy could have looked up Lauren's DNA results on the 23 and Me site if they were public and tracked down her relatives that way.  These days that kind of research is very possible - I've done enough of it myself on 23 and Me.  Often you can link what you find to other sites like Ancestry.com and find publicly posted family trees with photos like that on them.

I watch the show "Long Lost Family" and know that photos like that can be shared by relatives that the person doesn't even know.  I even had a stranger contact me on Ancestry.com to send me a photo of my great grandparents from the side of the family that I didn't know much about.  I had never even SEEN a photo of these relatives before.  When I asked her how she got the photo she said she wasn't a family member but did some research for one and they had given her the photo.  She was very evasive and I never really got an answer.  Was I suspicious?  You bet.  But I didn't automatically assume that this was a close relative.

Edited by Yeah No
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Something I haven't seen specifically mentioned yet was the hug Lauren gave Joy on the bus.  For me, that was the payoff.  Lauren was giving a simple hug of gratitude to someone who is almost a complete stranger but someone who can be counted as a friend; Joy got to hug her daughter.  A real hug, too.  The look on her face was everything.  I'm tearing up again now just thinking about it.  Joy can go back to Chicago now.  I still never really warmed up to her, but that scene was amazing.

Does Lauren's mom know about Joy?  Maybe, I think probably, but we don't know for sure.

Did Joy do the right thing?  Maybe, I have no idea.

Will Cara and Miles ever have sex?  Maybe, I think probably, but we don't know for sure.

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21 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Thank you, that's exactly what I thought. Most shows, especially this one, don't convey something that important so subtly that I would miss it - because I never miss stuff like that.  Joy's adoptive mom definitely would have shown some expression of recognition after that exchange.  And the fact that she did not is exactly why I didn't read it that way. 

I guess it is open to interpretation, because I thought the adoptive mom showed a lot of recognition and emotion in that scene, that wouldn't have made sense if she didn't know.

I hope they revisit it. One thing I like about this show is they call back to past friend requests and how they are doing, it isn't always one and done. Or at least, it wasn't last season.

17 minutes ago, Rambler said:

Well jeez, just have one person stay at the gallery and the other person go get the parents. It ain't rocket science people.

I really don't know why they didn't do that. Other than a plot device, of course.

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It looks like I'll be watching this delayed this season, 😢  so I won't be commenting much.

It was really predictable how Joy's arc (overall not just this episode) would play out. Of course she would meet her daughter then leave, but I thought the resolution with Lauren was emotionally satisfying.

If they ever add anyone else new to the team again, maybe they shouldn't have them around all the time.

LOL at them just not caring that Rakesh - one of the few with an actual job - is just not working! But seriously, I think they really need to figure out the employment situations these people living in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

Yeah, them not going to meet the artist was just dumb. They could have written a better reason for not getting to meet her. Also I could understand the curator not wanting to give out the artist's contact information to some randos off the street, but they made it seem like there was just no way to contact her -- also dumb, because clearly there is.

I think they need to flesh out Trish.

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On 10/21/2019 at 8:42 AM, aquarian1 said:

I thought at the end there, adoptive mom understood Joy was birth mom.  That moment nearly brought tears to my eyes, showing that understanding.

That was definitely what I thought when I was watching the scene. It looked like the adopted mom looked at Joy a bit longer and got emotional, and her "thank you" sounded like a much bigger thanks than giving her daughter a picture. It was really subtle and well done by the actresses, and I thought it was a great way to end the story.

I actually really like how the Joy plot ended up, but I am fine with her leaving to go back to Chicago. With Cara back in New York, it already seems like the good old days of last season, and now that Joy is leaving, it leaves us with the dream team! I was worried that we would get a "adopted kids should always want to be with their bio parents and vice versa" story, but I thought what we got was really touching. Like her grandpa said, Joy loved Lauren enough to let her go so she could have a better life, but now she has some closure with her. I think that Joy just blurting out that she is Lauren's bio mom would just cause more problems than it would solve, especially if her parents arent involved. Maybe if Lauren was an adult looking for her mom Joy could tell her  the truth, but Lauren is a kid, and this would just be confusing for her. 

Glad that Cara is going to live with her mom, I've really liked seeing their relationship progress, and seeing her take a chance on her mom is great to see. This could be really good for them, especially if she gets to know her sister more. I've always wanted to see more of her relationship with her sister, it must have been something to find out that she has a brand new sister she never knew, and I would think that could be an interesting relationship. 

I love that no one knows what Rakesh actually does in his job besides add new posters to his office, and yet he is apparently making bank.

You know guys...you can just split up and some of you can go to the gallery...and some can go to the bus station...just saying.

I figured that Arthur wouldn't be able to stay away from the church, but I guess Trish wants him focused on her 24/7? She doesent even want him to work part time? That seems a bit much when the only things they have on the agenda are tennis lessons.

Edited by tennisgurl
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And another thing: when are they going to let Cara get a haircut? Violett Beane cut her hair, so they've had a wig on her for continuity; but how long do they want to do that for? Her hair looks fine, they should just let it be shorter.

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On 10/21/2019 at 8:42 AM, aquarian1 said:

I thought at the end there, adoptive mom understood Joy was birth mom.  That moment nearly brought tears to my eyes, showing that understanding.

I agree. I thought it was very clear that she understood. 

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On 10/21/2019 at 7:23 PM, SpiritSong said:

Am I the only one creeped out by the constant privacy invasions? "Oh, I'll track her phone and tell you where she is." And looking into Joy's past, and finding out about her grandfather dying? Almost as unrealistic is the way everyone just shrugs and accepts these privacy violations. I think a lot of people would tell Miles, et al to butt out.

This is the first episode that really gave me the creeps.  Adults were stalking a 13 year old girl's social media.  Then these same 4 adults, virtual strangers to this girl, show up at the bus station where they learned she would be from...stalking her social media. That's straight up creepy.   

Edited by RealityCreator
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On 10/25/2019 at 1:03 PM, Trini said:

And another thing: when are they going to let Cara get a haircut? Violett Beane cut her hair, so they've had a wig on her for continuity; but how long do they want to do that for? Her hair looks fine, they should just let it be shorter.

Is she wearing a wig or just extensions?  Because when I look at her hair it seems more like extensions to me.  Maybe she's growing her hair out since the cut.

5 hours ago, RealityCreator said:

This is the first episode that really gave me the creeps.  Adults were stalking a 13 year old girl's social media.  Then these same 4 adults, virtual strangers to this girl, show up at the bus station where they learned she would be from...stalking her social media. That's straight up creepy.   

And it's even creepier if the bus station was NY's Port Authority (like it was 30 years ago)!! 😲

You're right of course, and that thought did cross my mind, but this show seems to live in a little reality all its own sometimes.  I thought the adoptive parents were surprisingly good natured about all this "stalking" by these strangers.  The "we just want to help" thing was not argued with as much as it should have been for realism's sake but again, this show exists in its own reality.  And how many times have they just happened to show up when a parent or parents are having a very public argument with their child right in front of them?  I'm sure it's at least 3.  Most people would grab their child by the arm and rush off saying "Mind your own business!"

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I liked this episode. Joy charging in bull headed and wanting to tell her daughter truth made sense. It was really for her and she was looking for any sign to tell her daughter. I do like Miles stopping her. One fight with her parents and a couple weeks of trouble doesn't mean her life is falling apart. And even if it had been that telling her might have made things worse. I did love the talk Joy had with Lauren on the bus. She gave Lauren what she needed from for now. It was really great scene. I love the scene with Joy and the adoptive mom. I think the adoptive mom figured out since she wondered how Joy could get the picture so fast, their expressions and emotion.  I liked Joy deciding to go back to Chicago and get her life back.

I liked the scene with Cara and her mom. I'm glad they haven't abandoned that. Its been fun seeing that relationship grow.

I'm not so sure Trish doesn't want Arthur to work. Didn't she say she wanted them to find something to do together? 

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On 10/29/2019 at 4:57 AM, andromeda331 said:

I'm not so sure Trish doesn't want Arthur to work. Didn't she say she wanted them to find something to do together? 

She keeps saying reasonable compromise about work is cool.  I've yet to see one.

I agree she would enjoy sharing an a-vocation with Arthur.  No real responsibility and freedom to take off as desired.  Charity work, for example. 

A vocation?  She would not have sold the shop if she wanted a real job.  She clearly loved what she was doing.  Why would she have given that up if she thought she would be taking on another position?    

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37 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

She keeps saying reasonable compromise about work is cool.  I've yet to see one.

I agree she would enjoy sharing an a-vocation with Arthur.  No real responsibility and freedom to take off as desired.  Charity work, for example. 

A vocation?  She would not have sold the shop if she wanted a real job.  She clearly loved what she was doing.  Why would she have given that up if she thought she would be taking on another position?    

I don't know. I did think that's what she meant in this episode but in the next episode that really doesn't seem like what she meant. I'm not sure why sold her shop to begin with. She really did love what she was doing and Arthur loved what he did. Nothing about him seems to suggested he wants to just not work and spend 24/7 retired with Trish which is why this storyline makes zeros sense. Last season it didn't seem like where either one were going or even wanted to go. I liked Trish's shop, she seemed to love it and seeing Arthur play. It was one of the things I liked about her and she and Arthur had in common. Her selling it and suddenly wanting be retired with Arthur really seems out of the blue. 

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Was it just me, or did Joy's whole backstory of being raised by her grandfather because her parents split seem a bit odd? People get divorced or break up all the time; unless they were also teen parents or there was some reason that wasn't mentioned, like substance abuse, they still raise their own kids.

As for Lauren...while I totally get that she was very eager to learn about her origins, if I were her parents I would have punished the heck out of her, stealing their credit cards to do her own thing not once, but TWICE. Yes, you had a reason, but sweetie, you are still a CHILD. You don't get to just go off and do your own thing whenever you feel like it. What if she had actually gone off on that bus, gone to Chicago and landed in some serious trouble? Lauren literally had NO clue where she was heading, just that it was "to family".

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I don't think we're supposed to think about that, just be happy and get our feel-goods because everything turned out okay and not worry too much (or at all) about what could have gone wrong.

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On 10/30/2019 at 2:41 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

She keeps saying reasonable compromise about work is cool.  I've yet to see one.

I agree she would enjoy sharing an a-vocation with Arthur.  No real responsibility and freedom to take off as desired.  Charity work, for example. 

A vocation?  She would not have sold the shop if she wanted a real job.  She clearly loved what she was doing.  Why would she have given that up if she thought she would be taking on another position?    

I just saw this - I think she sold the shop to make Arthur her vocation.

Or I sometimes wonder if she isn't terminally ill and just hasn't revealed it to Arthur yet.  I'm just trying to make her behavior somewhat plausible.  Of course it could also be that the writers made her change and didn't think about the lack of sense it made.

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