S02.E08: Dundee

[preeya]

S02.E08:  Dundee

Summary:  Shiv seeks backup in her battle against Rhea as the family gathers in Logan's hometown in Scotland to celebrate his 50 years of business.

[Tvfangirl]

This episode was quite the payoff from  what has come previously. Should be interesting to see the next chapter. 

[BlackberryJam]

I don't even know what happened in that episode.

Roman proposes to Gerri? Or does he?

Connor is leaking money on Willa's play.

Kendall falls in and out of love and raps like a white boy.

Rhea flounders under Roy fire when she's been fine before...at least around the Pierces.

Shiv pimps out Tom and then lucks into dumping Rhea in a pile of crap. 

Grexit.

[TomGirl]

“Grexit” - good one!

[Princess Sparkle]

I think my body imploded on itself when Kendall started rapping. 

[haje]

This show truly has the amazing ability to utterly devastate me one episode and then have me die of complete embarrassment the next. Incredible.

[Maire]

Kendall Roy in the Hizzy! 

I died, especially when he holds the microphone to Roman and he says “you need to stop this”

[apinknightmare]

I’ll never get over KenW.A. 

[scrb]

Jeremy Strong can rap a bit.  It was meant to be embarrassing, out of place, but he won some of them over by the time he finished, at least the younger people in the crowd.

I thought he was kind of a wannabe in the pilot when he got down with the loud hip hop in the back of his limo.

So things are coming to a head, you’d think Shiv pulled off a master stroke, encouraging Logan to pick Rhea, with what she knows is coming.

But why would Rhea be blamed for something that happened years ago?  If anything the Roys should have told her about the skeletons in the closet.

Wall Street would want a new CEO, someone without any of the baggage.  But of course, Rhea will be made a sacrificial lamb and the Roy siblings will resume their battle for the throne.

Greg may not be the OG but he’s a gangsta too.  Not only does he want Ewan’s inheritance, he wants to climb the ladder at Waystar, suck up to uncle Logan as well as grumpy gramps.

That halting awkward way of speaking has to be an act.  At the end of the series, he’s going to sound like a Noel Coward character.

[RealReality]

16 minutes ago, Princess Sparkle said:

I think my body imploded on itself when Kendall started rapping. 

I couldn't watch it.  Had to FF.  Had I been forced to watch it would have been through my fingers.  

[TimWil]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Greg may not be the OG but he’s a gangsta too.  Not only does he want Ewan’s inheritance, he wants to climb the ladder at Waystar, suck up to Uncle Fun as well as Grandpa Grumps.

Fixed it for you.

Edited September 30, 2019 by TimWil

[TimWil]

So now we know Connor’s mother was put into a mental hospital and Connor was sexually assaulted at age 12 by a camp councilor? But both allegations were voiced by Roman so maybe we’ll never know if either was true.

I hope Jennifer remembered to take those hotel soaps back with her to NYC.

Edited September 30, 2019 by TimWil

[rue721]

It seemed like the thing with Conner's mother was true, I thought Conner referred to it kind of obliquely and then Roman just yelled at him about it in the most crass way possible (Roman's usual schtick).

I'm curious about how much Conner was around Logan and the other siblings when the Roy kids were all growing up, because sometimes it seems like he weirdly cherished (and still cherishes) his time with them as though he didn't ever see them much, but sometimes it seems like they have a ton of shared history and must have been around each other a lot.

I wish SO MUCH that we could have seen at least some of Willa's apparently terrible play! Kendall's rapping was funnier and also probably better in its own humiliating way, but still. I am so curious about what she's like as a playwright. She seems so serious and dedicated and it's such a niche ambition that I can imagine her work being pretty cool, but then when she actually talks about the play she sounds so vapid (like she's fretting about desert sand v construction sand?) so it's hard to tell.

Kendall is a fucking wreck. I almost prefer the "broken doll" version of him to this, it was heartbreaking but seemed less dangerous. His bizarre, frantic fling with the actress as a way of distracting himself or whatever...I felt so bad for her. And you could tell that he just gave not a single solitary shit about her feelings or how this would affect her. This was the guy that Rava was referring to when she was talking about him snorting lines off his kids' iPads, I think. He's off in his own little world, and nobody else really exists there, so nobody else really matters. Still, I feel bad for him because I think he pretty clearly has an issue with depression, and it seems genuinely crippling...Street drugs aren't the responsible way to handle that, which I hope that he would know by forty years old, but on the other hand, Logan has directly and actively stopped him from handling things more responsibly or even allowed him to set any boundaries, so his options are limited. Logan just tells him what to do and he does it.

I am not a "poor little rich boy/girl" kind of person but man, these siblings are really screwed up. WTF did Logan even do to them? How can you be this messed up when your life has been this good? The mind boggles.

Shiv always irritates me and she irritated me at least as much as usual in this episode, but eh. At least she had some good moments with Logan. They're a lot alike, so it makes sense that they'd get along, and I like seeing it. My main issue with her becoming a decision-maker at Waystar is that she's not much of a strategic thinker, but I'll say for her that it looks like things are going to come up Shiv regardless. Rhea can steer the company for a year or two through this cruises debacle, walk away a few hundred million richer (or whatever) and then a Roy child can take the reins once things quiet down again. In that scenario, everybody's happy. Personally, I think Shiv is the most likely to wind up in the top spot just because she's Logan's favorite and the most like him in temperament, but who knows.

Roman's face when someone mentioned that Geri used to be Logan's flavor of the month and that they might have slept together! OMG! And then the proposal, which he totally meant. And then tried to cover with cannibalism when Geri was nonplussed by the idea of marriage? I hated Roman at the beginning of the show, but he's really grown on me. It also cracked me up that he found recording that "I love you" speech to Logan so emotionally draining. That kid, man.

Logan's reaction to Dundee was really touching to me. In the "Inside the Episode," the producer said that the actor who plays Logan really is from Dundee originally, so he had a lot of personal stuff to draw on when he was playing that. And I think you could really tell. Very emotional, very intense. This was maybe the first time I felt like I could empathize with Logan.

Greg's grandpa is impossible. Greg needs to call his mom to talk about strategizing this one (I assume Ewan is her dad? He needs to call whichever of his parents is Ewan's child). He doesn't want to become a pawn in the war between Grandpa Grumpy and Uncle Fun, jeeeeeeez.

I'm glad that Tom is finally just acting like a person around Shiv now (or at least more of a person). Maybe disillusionment becomes him. What's funny is that I think it's actually good for their relationship, even though it's probably also a sign that he loves her less.

[TomGirl]

Did anyone else think that Logan was going to decide at the last moment to announce Shiv as his successor after all?

[NeenerNeener]

So I went to sleep thinking "Yay, Shiv!" and woke up thinking "Rhea played that whole damn family and staged a coup". I'm expecting the new whistleblower to be working for Rhea, and the surprise party with everybody Logan ever met to have been arranged so that the whole world knows he's turning everything over to Rhea. She herded that whole family like a sheepdog.

If she was actually any good as a CEO though, would Pierce have had 2 straight years of losing money?

Edited September 30, 2019 by NeenerNeener

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, TomGirl said:

Did anyone else think that Logan was going to decide at the last moment to announce Shiv as his successor after all?

Yes.  But it would have only been to screw with her.  I still think Logan has no intention of stepping aside soon.  When whatever breaks....breaks....he may have to have Rhea for a while, but he will find a way to take over again. 

I think he is already showing signs of getting tired of her.  He isn't going to Kendall her, but I think the bloom I coming off the rose.

Have they even slept together?  I don't think they have, just seems like everyone has assumed......

2 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

So I went to sleep thinking "Yay, Shiv!" and woke up thinking "Rhea played that whole damn family and staged a coup". I'm expecting the new whistleblower to be working for Rhea, and the surprise party with everybody Logan ever met to have been arranged so that the whole world knows he's turning everything over to Rhea. She herded that whole family like a sheepdog.

If she was actually any good as a CEO though, would Pierce have had 2 straight years of losing money?

THAT would be interesting!  Hadn't thought of that at all, I had thought they were backed by Stewie and that other guy.  

Was she CEO at Pierce?

[rue721]

Also, Ewan can stop with this mess about disowning Greg for being so greedy as to take a job at Logan’s company. Ewan is on the board of Waystar and I’m certain that that huge chunk of change he’d be leaving Greg comes from Ewan’s stake in Waystar, too. What’s good enough for the goose is good enough for the gander, Ewan. If it’s OK for Ewan to get rich taking Logan’s “blood money” than why isn’t it OK for Greg?

It’s ridiculous for Ewan to threaten to withhold the portion of Waystar/Logan’s money from Greg that he’d get directly from Ewan in return for not taking any money from Logan via Waystar. Or, not ridiculous, personal. This is about the brothers fighting for “ownership” of Greg, not about Ewan’s convictions about Waystar. If Ewan really believed in those convictions, he would have given up his seat on the board long ago and stopped cashing his own Waystar checks. Until that happens, he needs to look in the mirror next time he starts ranting about complicity.

[RealReality]

I thought Gregory was poor?  Did he just want to work at waystar for his own personal growth?  If I knew I had a guaranteed* $250 mil coming I might be less likely to put up with any part of Tom's antics.

*-nothing is guaranteed of course.....but.its about as close as he was going to get

Edited September 30, 2019 by RealReality

[rue721]

I think Rhea got what she wanted, but I think this is better for the kids, too. She’s got a shorter timeline than they do, she’s coming in for the payday in the short/medium term and the kids want to be there forever.

I think it’s actually good if Logan has to go through the (certain to be very rough) transition period of handing over the CEO reins to someone else with an outsider rather than one of his kids. Rhea’s not his daughter, she’s going to be able to soak up his rage, fear of mortality, etc, a lot easier than any child of his could. And once an outsider has gotten Logan through that transition, it’s going to be a lot easier for one of the children to come in and take the reins from her and be the hero coming in to bring the company back into family control rather than the villain “killing” Logan and “stealing” it from him. 

I think it’s a huge step and a coop for the kids that Logan is actually handing off the CEO role to *anyone* rather than keeping it for himself.

The only fly in the ointment would be if Logan dies during the transition. I really hope he doesn’t, because I like watching him! But all bets are off Logan is no longer a factor.

Waystar has been losing money for a long time, too, just like Pierce has. So I think that’s probably the economic environment for media conglomerates in the Succession world right now and not the fault of any particular CEO. Even though Stewie and Sandy (and Kendall, too, back in the day) have been blaming Waystar’s performance on Logan. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited September 30, 2019 by rue721

[Eyes High]

12 hours ago, Princess Sparkle said:

I think my body imploded on itself when Kendall started rapping. 

I couldn't physically bear to watch it. It was the most cringe-inducing bit of TV since David Brent's infamous dance on the original British The Office.

Now that we know a bit more about Ewan's deal, he seems incredibly hypocritical. If he genuinely deplores his brother and Waystar, the source of his wealth, so much, and he genuinely believes that Logan is worse than Hitler, etc. etc., he should have severed all ties with Waystar, given up his board seat, and given back to Logan all the Waystar millions he apparently intended to leave to Greg long ago. Instead, he keeps the money and the board seat and whines about how awful his brother and Waystar are. What a hypocritical asshole. Put up or shut up. 

This felt like an odd, off-kilter, poorly written episode:

Kendall supposedly cares so much about his father's opinion that one "awesome" too many from Jennifer was enough to get Kendall to ghost her, but he pursued a relationship with Naomi after the Pierce deal went south, knowing full well how strongly his father feels about disloyalty. So which is it?

Logan seemed incredibly out of character. He has never been that warm and sweet with anyone in the entire show's history. He was even treating Greg as an actual human in terms of listening to his concerns and giving him an honest answer, instead of treating him like an insect as usual.

Greg has been working at Waystar for years, Ewan has always strongly disapproved of Waystar, but it's only now apropos of nothing that Ewan suddenly up and decides that Greg should quit and threatens to disinherit him if he doesn't. (I will say that Greg trying to get Logan involved to get Ewan to back off by "resigning" in person was the smart play, assuming that's what he was doing.)

Rhea in previous episodes showed herself canny and manipulative enough to court Logan and sabotage Shiv but was suddenly naive enough to fall for Kendall's "friendly" suggestion of Logan's sister Rose.

Roman is obsessed with his father and does everything to please him and yet has no idea which football team he prefers.

For episodes 4 through 7, this season felt like it had a strong through-line, but this episode felt disjointed and out of place. There's less what you would think of character development and plot arcs, apart from the strong central Logan/Shiv/Rhea story, and more of a series of amusing little vignettes that service the individual episodes. Individually the episodes work, but together they don't cohere, which is why the character arcs apart from Logan/Shiv/Rhea are all over the place. 

And lastly, I don't want to hear another word from anyone about how Kendall is the only one of these jerks with a conscience after Kendall in this episode convinced Jennifer to sabotage her career by abandoning Willa's play, had a whirlwind affair with her, and then cruelly dumped her because she failed to impress his father and moved on without a second thought. What a piece of work.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Eyes High

[teddysmom]

10 hours ago, haje said:

his show truly has the amazing ability to utterly devastate me one episode and then have me die of complete embarrassment the next. Incredible.

And all done by the same actor.

I immediately texted my sister "WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING??"   OMG I thought I couldn't love Jeremy Strong any more than I do, and then he pulled that off.  

The audience reaction shots were priceless.  Roman's girlfriend! Not to be confused with Gerri, who may be his fiancee? 

[teddysmom]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

And lastly, I don't want to hear another word from anyone about how Kendall is the only one of these jerks with a conscience after Kendall in this episode convinced Jennifer to sabotage her career by abandoning Willa's play, had a whirlwind affair with her, and then cruelly dumped her because she failed to impress his father and moved on without a second thought. What a piece of work.

Kendall's the new Walter White.  You love him and you realize he's a really bad person.  And that is what a brilliant actor can do with the right material, make you love a terrible person. 

I think it's just these people are fascinating because no matter the money and good fortune, they continue to fuck up everything. It's so Shakespearean. 

[Eyes High]

8 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Kendall's the new Walter White.  You love him and you realize he's a really bad person.  And that is what a brilliant actor can do with the right material, make you love a terrible person. 

I think it's just these people are fascinating because no matter the money and good fortune, they continue to fuck up everything. It's so Shakespearean. 

Heh, Kendall wishes he were Walter White. I will say that Jeremy Strong's performance as Kendall reminds me of the great John Cazale's legendary performance as Fredo. He had better be up for an Emmy next year.

[RealReality]

5 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I couldn't physically bear to watch it. It was the most cringe-inducing bit of TV since David Brent's infamous dance on the original British The Office.

Now that we know a bit more about Ewan's deal, he seems incredibly hypocritical. If he genuinely deplores his brother and Waystar, the source of his wealth, so much, and he genuinely believes that Logan is worse than Hitler, etc. etc., he should have severed all ties with Waystar, given up his board seat, and given back to Logan all the Waystar millions he apparently intended to leave to Greg long ago. Instead, he keeps the money and the board seat and whines about how awful his brother and Waystar are. What a hypocritical asshole. Put up or shut up. 

This felt like an odd, off-kilter, poorly written episode:

Kendall supposedly cares so much about his father's opinion that one "awesome" too many from Jennifer was enough to get Kendall to ghost her, but he pursued a relationship with Naomi after the Pierce deal went south, knowing full well how strongly his father feels about disloyalty. So which is it?

Logan seemed incredibly out of character. He has never been that warm and sweet with anyone in the entire show's history. He was even treating Greg as an actual human in terms of listening to his concerns and giving him an honest answer, instead of treating him like an insect as usual.

Greg has been working at Waystar for years, Ewan has always strongly disapproved of Waystar, but it's only now apropos of nothing that Ewan suddenly up and decides that Greg should quit and threatens to disinherit him if he doesn't. 

Rhea in previous episodes showed herself canny and manipulate enough to court Logan and sabotage Shiv but was suddenly naive enough to fall for Kendall's "friendly" suggestion of Logan's sister Rose.

Roman is obsessed with his father and does everything to please him and yet has no idea which football team he prefers.

And lastly, I don't want to hear another word from anyone about how Kendall is the only one of these jerks with a conscience after Kendall in this episode convinced Jennifer to sabotage her career by abandoning Willa's play, had a whirlwind affair with her, and then cruelly dumped her because she failed to impress his father and moved on without a second thought. What a piece of work.

I agree in that I'm confused by some things in this episode.  Is Kendall no longer seeing Naomi?  If so, why? 

That whole thing with Jennifer and the "awesomes" was weird.  It seemed like maybe Kendall was mad that she was overly effusive towards Logan?  But she didn't even really want to meet logan!  

Why was Kendall even attracted to Jennifer?  Jennifer is pretty but not supermodel stunning.....so why her?  The whole thing was so weird.  

Jennifer was talked into the come up and so I hope Kendall doesn't fully yank the rug out from under her and at least helps her out with a movie career or something.  I'm sure those were some luxury soaps, I'd have stowed some away too.  I love fancy soaps.

I'm not sure if roman or Logan was right about the team because Logan likes fucking with his kids and his mind I slipping......I can never be sure, but I'd put my money on roman being right and Logan being mean/misremembering.

I wonder if Rhea is sort of testing them all.  What doesnt make sense to me is that Kendall would show is hand is such a useless play.  Like, so what, you fucked Rhea with the rose suggestion.  It annoyed Logan, but accomplished little else and didn't push the needle very far at all.  It would have been better for Kendall to play his hand when he had higher stakes.  Now Rhea knows she can't trust him.

[teddysmom]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

For episodes 4 through 7, this season felt like it had a strong through-line, but this episode felt disjointed and out of place. There's less what you would think of character development and plot arcs, apart from the strong central Logan/Shiv/Rhea story, and more of a series of amusing little vignettes that service the individual episodes. Individually the episodes work, but together they don't cohere, which is why the character arcs apart from Logan/Shiv/Rhea are all over the place. 

I'm wondering if they're showing all these little scenes with the brothers, etc, as the "who's the CEO" plot plays out, and then they'll have a big cliff hanger for the finale. 

Pretty baller move by Marcia to just point blank say to Rhea "Are you being tested?"  

I just cannot imagine Rhea & Logan together.   yuck. 

47 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Heh, Kendall wishes he were Walter White.

Oh I don't mean as far as being as batshit crazy "no one can touch me", just a character we know is a jerk but we still root for him. 

One thing we can all agree on, Shiv looked amazing in that black dress with the Van Cleef & Arpels diamond barrette.  

But she also tried to pimp out Tom to hurty flirty (wtf is that) with Rhea to piss off Logan. Tom, you aren't so much a husband as a useful idiot. I think even Chigger Bitten Greg is wise to the shit going on here. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by teddysmom

[stacyasp]

Ewan  is backing the whistleblower ? Right?

[teddysmom]

40 minutes ago, RealReality said:

That whole thing with Jennifer and the "awesomes" was weird.  It seemed like maybe Kendall was mad that she was overly effusive towards Logan?  But she didn't even really want to meet logan!  

Did Logan bring the awesome thing up to Kendall?  I can't remember if that's why Kendall dumped her.  OMG the therapy this guy needs.  Because about 6 hours earlier he was going to buy an island where they could fuck 24-7 or something. 

2 minutes ago, stacyasp said:

Ewan  is backing the whistleblower ? Right?

YES!! That's what I thought too!!!  There was so much back stabbing going on I couldn't keep it all straight.  

[RealReality]

31 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Did Logan bring the awesome thing up to Kendall?  I can't remember if that's why Kendall dumped her.  OMG the therapy this guy needs.  Because about 6 hours earlier he was going to buy an island where they could fuck 24-7 or something. 

YES!! That's what I thought too!!!  There was so much back stabbing going on I couldn't keep it all straight.  

I don't think Logan brought it up.  Kendall just brought it up and it was so weird.  But it's possible I was washing a dish and missed Logan bringing it up...but I don't think he did.  

[rue721]

I think when Logan told Kendall he needed to skip the zoo with Naomi and come to the dead waiter's house with him instead, that was it for Kendall and Naomi. Even if Naomi were OK with Kendall flaking out on her, Logan didn't seem to approve of the relationship, and Kendall wasn't going to test him.

I think the actress was just a distraction. He used her for sex like he used the poor dead waiter for drugs. Just like with drugs, he had the high, when he was buying her an island and saying "screw your dumb cast-mates back in New York." And then he had the comedown, when even her word choice got under his skin.

I felt terrible for her, he was very hurtful and destructive. But dude doesn't even seem to know, let alone care. He's lost in his own addiction, I guess. Downward spiraling like a motherfucker.

What killed me about the rap was that he'd obviously put a TON of work into it. Wrote it, practiced it, booked talent for his backup, designed and commissioned costumes! Bwhahaha wow. Wow.

[Eyes High]

44 minutes ago, stacyasp said:

Ewan  is backing the whistleblower ? Right?

I thought so. There was that line where Logan tells Greg that Ewan is a coward. Stealthily backing a whistleblower who will take all the attention and backlash from the Roys is definitely something Logan would see as cowardly.

41 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Did Logan bring the awesome thing up to Kendall?  I can't remember if that's why Kendall dumped her.  OMG the therapy this guy needs.  Because about 6 hours earlier he was going to buy an island where they could fuck 24-7 or something. 

It's especially rich of Kendall, who is incredibly inarticulate and who liberally peppers his language with "fuck," "dude" and "bro," to judge someone for using "awesome" several times in the same conversation.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Eyes High

[vibeology]

1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

Did Logan bring the awesome thing up to Kendall?  I can't remember if that's why Kendall dumped her.  OMG the therapy this guy needs.  Because about 6 hours earlier he was going to buy an island where they could fuck 24-7 or something. 

Logan didn't say anything to Kendall, only to Shiv later. But, he did have the look of someone pretending to be interested but truly being unimpressed (fantastic layers from Brian Cox) and I would think Kendall, who is obsessed with pleasing his dad, picked up on that and decided she had to go.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

3 hours ago, rue721 said:

If Ewan really believed in those convictions, he would have given up his seat on the board long ago and stopped cashing his own Waystar checks. Until that happens, he needs to look in the mirror next time he starts ranting about complicity.

I don't disagree with you but I do think Ewan could argue that it's better for him to siphon off some of the Waystar money and use it for good rather than have it all go to greedy jerks who are just going to hoard it and buy a 6th yacht with it. Of course, he is giving $250 mil of it to Greg so the case wouldn't be that strong. 

5 hours ago, TomGirl said:

Did anyone else think that Logan was going to decide at the last moment to announce Shiv as his successor after all?

I did not but that would have been pretty funny. Shiv sets up Rhea to take all the heat from the scandal and ends up having to deal with it herself.

5 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

If she was actually any good as a CEO though, would Pierce have had 2 straight years of losing money?

She wasn't a CEO at Pierce though was she? She had some other role under the Pierces, who were the ones running the company.

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

That whole thing with Jennifer and the "awesomes" was weird.  It seemed like maybe Kendall was mad that she was overly effusive towards Logan?  But she didn't even really want to meet logan!  

He was mad that she came off as a bimbo. Logan even said something to Shiv about it.

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

Why was Kendall even attracted to Jennifer?  Jennifer is pretty but not supermodel stunning.....so why her?  The whole thing was so weird.  

He's an addict who was using her as a distraction.

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

I'm not sure if roman or Logan was right about the team because Logan likes fucking with his kids and his mind I slipping......I can never be sure, but I'd put my money on roman being right and Logan being mean/misremembering.

This is a great point that I had not considered! I think you are right.

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

What doesnt make sense to me is that Kendall would show is hand is such a useless play.  Like, so what, you fucked Rhea with the rose suggestion.  It annoyed Logan, but accomplished little else and didn't push the needle very far at all.  It would have been better for Kendall to play his hand when he had higher stakes.  Now Rhea knows she can't trust him.

I think he and his siblings had decided to wind Rhea up so he was just doing his part. I don't think Rhea trusts anyone but herself anyway.

1 hour ago, stacyasp said:

Ewan  is backing the whistleblower ? Right?

That's the sense I got from the end of the episode. I can't remember exactly what Ewan said but IMO that's what it meant.

Greg was pretty hilarious this episode with his "Grexit" and I also wanted to mention his dancing, if you can call it that, during Kendall's rap. I really don't understand him now that we know he's supposed to inherit money. Why deal with the Roys at all if that was your situation?
 

[rue721]

I think Kendall was just looking for an excuse because he was done with Jennifer. He barely knows the woman, so he didn't have anything real to criticize her about. I don't even remember her saying "awesome" that much, and besides, who cares. If it weren't that, he would have been complaining about some other made-up problem.

With Naomi, I think it was about Logan's disapproval. With Jennifer, I think it was just that he'd already gotten out of her everything he needed, so he was done and ready for her to be taken out to the curb like a bag of trash. Which is really cruel, in my opinion. But also 100% in character, because that's just an addict being an addict, I think.

He's the same guy who pushed the waiter as hard as he needed to in order to get drugs, he was using the waiter as hard as he could until the waiter was dead, and then he left him and got the drugs from somewhere else. I don't think that Kendall's a monster or anything! But he's an addict, this is what's bad about that. He's a user, in all senses of the word.

Anyhow, I don't think Rhea was being stupid about the toast to Rose. I think that she realized that Kendall giving her "intel" on the toast was meant to be a declaration of loyalty, and she wanted to see who he was declaring it for. Actually not a bad way to see which way Kendall was blowing, since the fallout was really minor.

Kendall would actually probably have been smart to string her along a little more, but he needed to reconnect with Shiv because he's never happy about being alienated from family, he wasn't exactly thinking straight this episode, and all the Roys are mediocre at best at stringing people along like that even in the best of times. (#richpplproblems -- they're bad at it because they've never had to do it in order to survive). I mean, it would also have been smart for Shiv to string along Not!Bernie Sanders a little more, but she didn't do that, either.

[Pop Tart]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Kendall supposedly cares so much about his father's opinion that one "awesome" too many from Jennifer was enough to get Kendall to ghost her, but he pursued a relationship with Naomi after the Pierce deal went south, knowing full well how strongly his father feels about disloyalty. So which is it?

There was also the weird bit of the interchange with his dad when Kendall introduced her and said she was in theater. She responded with something like "not really" or something else that was kind of noncommittal on the subject. Kendall paused and asked her something or made a comment but you could tell by his expression that something fell off for him in that moment. I'm going to have to watch it again a few times to see if I can parse it (though entirely possible that I won't be able to). This doesn't excuse Kendall's behavior but makes it appear that something besides "awesome" had flipped a switch for him. Or maybe he was just coming down off a coke high and it just didn't seem like such awesome, psychic sex anymore.

I do think that Rhea, like Logan, is always several steps ahead of everyone else. So she may have been fumbling last night as part of her long-term play. Otherwise she was being way too clumsy and that's not something we've seen from Rhea before. Even though the Pierce's are supposedly not as up front about their need for power and money as the Roys, I'm sure that there is just as much strategizing and game playing among the Pierce family members to gain power. So this is a dynamic with which Rhea should be familiar. The missteps she was making last night seemed out of character given what we've seen of her so far.

[Princess Sparkle]

3 hours ago, teddysmom said:

And all done by the same actor.

I immediately texted my sister "WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING??"   OMG I thought I couldn't love Jeremy Strong any more than I do, and then he pulled that off.  

I texted my friend an all caps "SOMETHING IS HAPPENING THAT SHOULDN'T BE HAPPENING". I stand by my statement

Jessie Armstrong said in the aftershow they came up with it because it sounded like something you'd hear a CEO's son do, and you'd see part of it later on instagram in a "Look what that guy did" way. I can 100% see that.

30 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

There was also the weird bit of the interchange with his dad when Kendall introduced her and said she was in theater. She responded with something like "not really" or something else that was kind of noncommittal on the subject.

I thought FOR SURE after that moment, we were going to find out that Jennifer was actually an escort like Willa used to be, and that's how Willa knew her for the play.

[BlackberryJam]

There is a difference between knowing you’re going to inherit money in the future and having money now. My impression form the beginning was that Greg/Greg’s mother had been cut off from the cash flow. You can’t borrow against possible. future inheritance.

Greg was all about the weed and his mom was done backing him, right?

Now that I see management training with Roman, I’m wondering if that’s what Greg was doing. 

This episode, Rhea kept getting wrong-footed, but yeah...she could be playing a long game. 

Kendall skipped to a new woman which btw, clearly this is repeat behavior for him and I have little sympathy for a woman walking away from employment to engage in a little investment sex. I’m sure she’s going to get a lovely parting gift ($) on her flight back. Kendall goes from drug to drug, woman to woman, he’s so desperate to be loved and accepted. He’s so completely pathetic and Jeremy Strong still makes him likable. I was terrified Kendall was going to announce his engagement to the vacuous Jennifer. 

It’s so sad that Shiv flirt pimping Tom was the healthiest romantic relationship interaction this episode. 

Oh, my love for Marcia has grown. God I hope there’s no prenup.

[Malarkey Hour]

This show NEEDS more "Rat F***er Sam!" Very underrated character! 

[Eyes High]

4 hours ago, rue721 said:

Also, Ewan can stop with this mess about disowning Greg for being so greedy as to take a job at Logan’s company. Ewan is on the board of Waystar and I’m certain that that huge chunk of change he’d be leaving Greg comes from Ewan’s stake in Waystar, too. What’s good enough for the goose is good enough for the gander, Ewan. If it’s OK for Ewan to get rich taking Logan’s “blood money” than why isn’t it OK for Greg?

Yes, absolutely. It's outrageous that Ewan is totally fine with living off Waystar blood money but is indignant that Greg does the same. At least Greg is working for his income as opposed to puttering around on a farm as Ewan is.

Quote

It’s ridiculous for Ewan to threaten to withhold the portion of Waystar/Logan’s money from Greg that he’d get directly from Ewan in return for not taking any money from Logan via Waystar. 

That Ewan would threaten Greg with disinheritance to get him to do his bidding is a huge red flag from Greg that Ewan isn't to be trusted. If Greg caves once, then who's to say that Ewan wouldn't similarly manipulate him in the future? Go work for Greenpeace or I'll disinherit you. Never speak to Logan or his kids again or I'll disinherit you. Leave New York or I'll disinherit you.

What's more telling is that Ewan's own daughter knew that it was a safer bet for Greg to hit up Logan for a job than to ask her incredibly wealthy father for desperately needed financial support for his grandson. That tells you all you need to know about whether Ewan is a trustworthy source of support for Greg. Ewan said in S1 that Greg's mother asked him to look out for Greg, but we have no indication that Ewan has done anything to help Greg other than to tell him to be independent and self-reliant ("Paddle your own canoe"), which is insane advice from someone who owes his fortune to someone else's effort. 

Greg is better off throwing in his lot with Logan, who at least is giving him money to feed and clothe himself now, as opposed to holding out for a payday from Ewan which may never come.

51 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I don't disagree with you but I do think Ewan could argue that it's better for him to siphon off some of the Waystar money and use it for good rather than have it all go to greedy jerks who are just going to hoard it and buy a 6th yacht with it. 

He doesn't appear to be using it for good, though. There's no mention of him being involved in any environmental groups, donating to worthy causes, or using his money to lobby for climate-friendly policies. He has $250 million to give away. Presumably Greenpeace could have used some of that cash.

Quote

Greg was pretty hilarious this episode with his "Grexit" and I also wanted to mention his dancing, if you can call it that, during Kendall's rap. I really don't understand him now that we know he's supposed to inherit money. Why deal with the Roys at all if that was your situation?

Because he and his mother are poor and he needs money now, not in 10, 15 or 20 years when Ewan dies. And who's to say that Ewan intends to leave him any money at all and is just using a meaningless threat of disinheritance to manipulate him? Ewan despite being incredibly wealthy hasn't done anything to support Greg's cash-strapped mom or Greg financially; there's a reason Greg's mom sent him to beg Logan for a job and not Ewan for money. It sure doesn't seem as if Ewan particularly cares about Greg's fortunes.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Eyes High

[teddysmom]

And Greg was smart enough to go to Logan and tell him "your brother is fucking with my future" because that will piss Logan off to high heavens.  Not that Logan really gives a shit about Greg, but that Ewan would try to force him to quit Waystar/Royco. 

[scrb]

4 hours ago, RealReality said:

I thought Gregory was poor?  Did he just want to work at waystar for his own personal growth?  If I knew I had a guaranteed* $250 mil coming I might be less likely to put up with any part of Tom's antics.

*-nothing is guaranteed of course.....but.its about as close as he was going to get

I don't think he knew what he was getting or how much from Ewan.

Yes Ewan is hypocritical telling Greg not to work for Logan but in his mind, he thinks actually working at Waystar, rather than profiting from it, is another degree of moral failing, especially since he says it's responsible for a lot of deaths from climate denialism.

13 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

And Greg was smart enough to go to Logan and tell him "your brother is fucking with my future" because that will piss Logan off to high heavens.  Not that Logan really gives a shit about Greg, but that Ewan would try to force him to quit Waystar/Royco. 

Yeah he was feeling Logan out, to see if Logan would top his offer or reassure him he could rise a lot.

Like I said, gansta.

So Uncle Fun didn't make explicit promises but told him he liked him.

But maybe Gregory should learn from Shiv and the other Roy siblings about how Logan has strung them along all their lives.

[BlackberryJam]

It’s possible that Waystar/Royco wasn’t completely heinous in the beginning and that’s when Ewan made his bucks from the company. I’m sure he’s still profiting, but I think part of the show is the difficulty in news moving from the ‘reporting’ model to the ‘newstainment’ model. Waystar may have been good, in-depth reporting at some point and once the 24 hour news cycle developed, turned to newstainment for profit. We just don’t have that history.

A good portion of Ewan’s cash might be filthy, but a decent amount may not. He’s still a total dick. 

Greg is learning to play the family members against each other, which seems to be classic Roy behavior.

I thought Logan was fucking with Roman about his favorite team as well. I keep thinking of that guy Roman is schmoozing as “Not Stewy” or “Roman’s Stewy.” What is his name? Part of the problem for me is that Rome is such a mumbler when he’s talking to people who intimidate him. 

[apinknightmare]

I thought that Ewan was telling Greg to stop working for Logan because he’s backing the whistleblower and didn’t want Greg to get caught up in what’s coming, and was smart enough to not spell it out because he was worried about Greg spilling to one of the Roys? 
 

Maybe I overthought it. 

[HeddaGabler]

I feel like this is an episode where we see everyone slightly off their game, from Logan right down to the members of the "what the fuck are we going to do" committee. Everyone was showing their ass slightly, which reshuffles the audience a bit too in terms of who's right/wrong, who's on top/out the door. 

[scrb]

BTW, what great timing that there's a whistleblower figuring prominently in the plot.

And they called the guy Weasel.

[RealReality]

38 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I thought that Ewan was telling Greg to stop working for Logan because he’s backing the whistleblower and didn’t want Greg to get caught up in what’s coming, and was smart enough to not spell it out because he was worried about Greg spilling to one of the Roys? 
 

Maybe I overthought it. 

I think it's possible.  I hadn't even considered that ewan backed the WB.  I just thought he has been semi-forced to attend and was being super salty about it.  But it could be.... 

[teddysmom]

L to the OG

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7x5ep4/kendalls-rap-in-succession-is-the-song-of-the-year

It's kinda cute the second time after the shock's worn off. 

I really wonder if they had Jeremy rehearse this without the rest of the cast knowing he was doing it,  and then just filmed their coverage and lines on subsequent takes, because the initial reactions are hilarious.   

I definitely think Ewan is backing the WB, and isn't trying to protect Greg. If he was, he'd straight up tell him to get out before it's too late.  Why do it by threatening his future?  Shows he's just like his brother, use wealth to bend people to your will. 

[teddysmom]

2 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

She wasn't a CEO at Pierce though was she?

No she was CEO. That's why she told Shiv Pierce needed a new CEO. 

[rue721]

How would Ewan and the whistleblower have even gotten into contact, though? He's some old curmudgeon on a farm in Canada, nobody knows him and nobody really wants to.

I don't think he would go for the jugular anyhow. He wasn't even willing to abstain from the loss of confidence vote against Logan last year, he came into town specifically for it and voted to help his brother out.

And what would he care about the whistle-blower's complaints in particular? He thinks Waystar is literally burning the world to ash and he's still cashing his distribution checks and showing up to board meetings, same as every other sellout at that table.

I think he's just being possessive over Greg out of spite. He doesn't want his brother to take anything of his. "It's him or me."

I have never watched a show with so many characters who so obviously needed more hugs than they got as children, Jeez Louise.

Edited September 30, 2019 by rue721

[Pop Tart]

23 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I really wonder if they had Jeremy rehearse this without the rest of the cast knowing he was doing it,  and then just filmed their coverage and lines on subsequent takes, because the initial reactions are hilarious.   

I just listened to an interview with the actress who plays Geri. She said that the director will have them run through takes following the script but then always does another take or two where they're told they can ad-lib or "have fun with it". She said that some of those takes are used in the show so I could see them doing something like that with this whole scene. Just have Jeremy go out there and do it cold and see what kinds of reactions he'd get.  

[apinknightmare]

22 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I definitely think Ewan is backing the WB, and isn't trying to protect Greg. If he was, he'd straight up tell him to get out before it's too late.  Why do it by threatening his future?  Shows he's just like his brother, use wealth to bend people to your will. 

My thought was that he didn't want to give the game away because surely he knows his grandson has idiotic tendencies and might let something slip to Logan even if he didn't mean to. Then again, he is an asshole and a Roy so he's probably just using Greg as a prop in his pissing match with his brother.