tv echo

I agree that there is no "Moonlighting Curse" - just bad writing. As that analysis points out, lots of shows have a couple get together and still maintain a successful show. If the main mythology of the show isn't the romance, then the romance can continue indefinitely. It'll just be part of the show - like the hero's sidekicks and friends.

Maybe EBR genuinely couldn't be there yesterday because of the show's thoughtless production scheduling, and TPTB decided to have her appear tomorrow with KC and CL - to show how the three main (romantic) women on the show are pals who get along, as well as to avoid backlash from fans who would be surprised and disappointed by EBR's no-show at yesterday's panel.

EBR just turned 23 so she is really young. This is a very plausible possibility. I posted a comment in the Spoilers thread that speculated that

Arrow Bosses Tease Felicity-Oliver Romance, New Issues in Season 3 Jul 25, 2014 10:13 PM ET - by Natalie Abrams http://www.tvguide.com/News/Arrow-Season3-Tease-1084959.aspx Article talks about Thea, Diggle, Quentin, the O/F date, and Roy (no mention of Laurel): Regarding the "Oracle" episode, remember the EP comments about how no one is their original superhero counterpart? There's always at least two versions. Maybe Felicity could be the first Oracle but later Barbara Gordon takes over as Oracle. If so, then there'd have to be a tie between Felicity and Barbara (friend? relative?). Or maybe Felicity's father was the first Oracle and Felicity is the second. I just hope they don't paralyze Felicity.

Here are the direct links: https://twitter.com/mguggenheim https://twitter.com/DigitalSpy (scroll down) Arrow boss confirms return of Caity Lotz as The Canary in season three http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/s206/arrow/news/a586317/arrow-boss-confirms-return-of-caity-lotz-as-the-canary-in-season-three.html

Comic-Con fans review 'The Flash': 'I'm gonna start crying!' http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/07/24/comic-con-the-flash-pilot-screening/

Lots of video clips of Kiefer Sutherland at SDCC 2014 have begun to surface on YouTube (search "sdcc 2014 24 kiefer sutherland"): https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sdcc+2014+24+kiefer+sutherland

Scorpion Cast Interview at SDCC 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkwDRxNCZMY

Video clips from the Under the Dome panel at SDCC 2014 are now surfacing on YouTube (just search "sdcc 2014 under the dome"): https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sdcc+2014+under+the+dome

I'm really afraid that this will be a repeat of the Gretchen season. You've already got the "mean girls" and the "bullying victim". If Korina wins, that'll put the nail in the coffin that is PR.

I agree. Anyway, if the spoilers are correct, then

Happy Belated Birthday to Emily Bett Rickards! I agree that we should eliminate the phrase "fan pandering" altogether. I don't think it even applies. Using this definition of fan pandering, it assumes that Olicity fans are a tiny minority of Arrow fans - and I don't think that's the case at all, considering it's more than Internet chatter but also tons of media news articles, critics, polls and award nominations. I object to the term because the phrase is too frequently used by one segment of the fan population to denigrate the opinions of another segment of the fan population. According to Dictionary.com, the general term "pander" or "panderer" is defined as (1) a pimp or (2) a person who caters to or profits from the weaknesses or vices of others (or if used as a verb, to act like a panderer). So when someone uses the phrase "fan pandering", they're insulting both the show producers and other fans. Anyway, as AK makes clear in that E!Online article (posted by Velocity23 on page 40), the O/F date is not a throwaway scene but part of the larger theme of Season 3. U.S. Link: http://www.eonline.com/news/562851/arrow-scoop-find-out-what-felicity-says-to-oliver-after-their-season-3-premiere-date

I didn't see this link posted before but if I missed it, I apologize... http://www.tvfanatic.com/2014/07/the-flash-spoilers-grant-gustin-talks-a-different-barry-felicity/ Assuming Grant Gustin knows what he's talking about, I think this is a positive comment on Oliver's feelings for Felicity. He's saying that both Barry and Oliver can't be available romantically to Felicity right now, but for different reasons. Barry is in love with someone else (Iris), so he can't love Felicity. But Oliver is not in love with someone else, so he can love Felicity - he just doesn't feel like he can be with her because he has to be the Arrow.

Next week's TV Guide (featuring Under the Dome on the cover) includes a pic of Rick and Darryl looking out from the railcar and a short article, which includes the following tidbits. Scott Gimple: "The season is about who these characters have become... They have survived getting out of the prison, they've been on these journeys and they're going to be facing some pretty heavy stuff that is going to define who they are as people moving forward." Gimple: Rick reassumes his position as the group's leader. "He does feel affection for a great number of people in the railcar, so he's going to harness his more savage and brutal side to protect them." Gimple: "The premiere is "epic, intimate, emotional, insane, bloody and - hopefully - surprising.'

Next week's TV Guide (featuring Under the Dome on the cover) includes a picture of Lexi asleep in a giant semi-transparent, reddish bubble sac. Apparently, after an "upcoming biological transformation," Lexi will be "stronger and more sure of what she's doing." Also according to the accompanying article: -- The war between the Espheni invaders and the human resistance could come down to which side controls Lexi, who offers a message of peace between species. -- Lexi doesn't know yet that her Espheni 'father' sees her as a weapon of mass destruction that they plan to use to conquer Earth. -- "When Tom discovers that their enemy's war machine is controlled by a centralized power, the hunt for that becomes an urgent goal." -- Should they trust Lexi to help? "Sometimes it's beneficial that people follow Lexi, and other times the naive child in her takes them in a direction they may regret."

That new TV Guide article in the Spoilers thread clarified that

This episode re-aired on TV last night and upon watching it again, there were a lot of good things and bad things. Good included the Nyssa scenes, the Felicity scenes, and SA's acting upon learning Moira's secret but still giving that speech. Bad included the Laurel scenes - her delusional flash backs and her self-centered hissy fit upon discovering her sister Sara was alive. Bad also included that unintentionally laughable fight at the end where it was like the Keystone Kops - Sara confronts Nyssa, Dinah is freed, Quentin & Dinah rush out, Sara collapses from poison, Quentin & Dinah rush back in, Arrow enters and fights Nyssa, Sara somehow leaves her parents and staggers alone to the fight scene, Arrow somehow brings Nyssa to her knees, Arrow rushes to Sara and gives her the antidote, Sara begs Nyssa not to kill, Nyssa releases Sara from the LOA, Nyssa leaves, Quentin & Dinah now rush in, Arrow disappears, Laurel and the cops suddenly appear. Really convenient and contrived timing of entrances and exits. But the biggest bad about this episode, upon retrospect, is the scene where Sara would rather poison herself and die, rather than return to the LOA and kill again, thereby losing what's left of her soul - in light of the end of "Unthinkable" where Sara happily returns with Nyssa to the LOA and Quentin & Laurel happily wave her off at the dock. Bye, bye, have a good time killing people! Send us a postcard!

Maybe they have Laurel bringing a cup of coffee to Felicity while both are in the Arrowcave and Felicity is working at the computer - part of their 'bonding' moment. Catching up on the latest spoilers, at least I'm happy we'll get another Diggle-centric episode. I agree with those who think this is the season they'll prop up Laurel by making her (or trying to make her) more likeable and by slowly phasing out Sara, all toward taking giant steps towards Laurel becoming the Black Canary. We've already got the new Laurel love interest spoiler and KC pumping iron tidbits and the Laurel & Oliver working hand-in-hand to catch & convict bad guys spoiler. Now we've got Laurel interacting with Felicity and Diggle - two of the most popular characters on the show. How did Oliver become more likeable in Seasons 1 and 2? Through his interactions with Felicity and Diggle - who became his friends, lightened him up and thought he was a hero. How will Laurel become more likeable? Through her interactions with Felicity and Diggle - who will become her friends, lighten her up and probably be saved by her at some point during the season. We'll see a Laurel who's supportive and more lighthearted. She'll probably be given some funny quotable quips to say. She'll be less angsty and hostile. She'll be 'fun' and Felicity's new 'BFF'. She'll have some hero moments. She'll stay platonic friends with Oliver (at least for now). By the end of Season 3, fans will be going "oh we like this new Laurel". At least, that's probably what the EPs hope. Personally, I think it may be too late for this character and I'm also not sure KC has the acting chops to pull it off in a convincing manner.

Season 1 - Laurel as warm, compassionate lawyer? Nope. Season 2 - Laurel as addicted, morally ambiguous lawyer? Nope. Season 3 - Laurel as badass, fighting lawyer? TBD

The movie Batman Begins aired recently on TV and, watching it, I was struck again by how it "inspired" Arrow. Though Katie Holmes was panned by critics, I actually liked her as Rachel Dawes. I thought that she came across as a compassionate, passionate and sometimes vulnerable lawyer and that she had chemistry with Christian Bale. I also thought, 'this is what Laurel was supposed to be' -- the hero's childhood sweetheart who became a warm, compassionate lawyer who fights for justice and someone who knows the hero down to his bones - enough to know that his Bruce Wayne persona is now the mask and his costumed alter ego is now the real him, and who hopes that someday he will return to being the boy she loved before he went away. The problem, of course, is that Laurel never came across that way and the two actors had zero chemistry, and so the Arrow TPTB had to struggle to change her character to fit the actress' strengths.

Actually, I wouldn't mind if Felicity's back story is tied back to Oliver's back story in some way. If done right, it could even be believable. Felicity did work at QC and she was known to Walter - so it wouldn't be surprising if she was specifically recruited to work at QC and for Walter (who's friends with Robert, Moira and Malcolm) because of something having to do with her father - and that that something had to do with ARGUS, HIVE or LOA. Walter may have been asked by her father to watch over her. She would be completely unsuspecting. It would be more unbelievable if Felicity had had no connection to the Queen family business prior to meeting Oliver. She can still be a normal girl with a normal upbringing - and a normal, albeit somewhat kooky mother - and still have a mysterious unknown father.

I agree that Anne has become annoying, but so have a lot of the others. I like that at least one group is headed by a female (for a change). I don't have a problem with Anne changing from being a doctor to a resistance leader over the course of several months. Tom was a mild-mannered history professor who became a resistance leader pretty quickly in Season 1. In desperate times, people do what they have to do. If I thought I'd lost everyone I loved, I'd change into someone grimmer too. As for leading despite other more experienced fighters in her group, well I expressed the same sentiment about Hal leading his group despite there being other older and more experienced fighters in his group - even Pope has more leadership and fighting experience. However, Anne is part of the special snowflake Mason clan - so they must always lead and their agendas must always take precedence - whether it's Anne searching for Lexi or Tom rescuing Matt. BTW, what happened to Tom's promise to Matt to go back and rescue the other children? What a waste of Chief Tyrol.

There's been a lot of talk on the Felicity thread about how Oliver's making her his EA when he was CEO of QC was a demotion for her. But Diggle's cover as Oliver's "black driver" was a demotion and a sacrifice for him as well. He was originally hired to be Oliver's bodyguard, but once he discovered that Oliver was the vigilante, it was clear that his bodyguarding skills were not needed. Diggle became more of a crime-fighting partner. But his day job was still to pose as Oliver Queen's bodyguard and driver. He probably could've gotten a better job elsewhere. Now that Oliver is no longer head of QC, maybe Diggle will get a new day job that's more suitable for his skills and experience.

I don't think the writers hate Laurel - I think they just don't know what to do with the character. Actually, I think the writers (or the EPs) went out of their way to write Laurel into the main action at the end of Season 2. Remember how Laurel got some guy to hack into Blood's database and found the post-dated press release about Moira's death? That hacking is something that normally would've been done by Felicity. But Laurel got the scene and that got her into the Arrowcave and Team Arrow to tell Oliver about Blood. Then that got her following Oliver and to the scenes of her saving Oliver and then shooting an arrow. Etc. (If Laurel had to be the one to pursue the Blood lead, well Quentin was there too and he knows Felicity is a computer genius. So why didn't he get Felicity to help them hack into the database? Because then Felicity would be there when the Blood press release was discovered and she could tell Oliver about Blood's deception, thereby negating the need for Laurel to ever enter the Arrowcave.) I do agree, however, that the Laurel character that was originally described by the EPs ("warm, compassionate lawyer" who works at the CNRI and fights for justice) is not the Laurel character that's coming across on the TV screen - partly due to writing and partly due to acting/casting.

Based on the past two seasons, Felicity's back story will most likely tie back to something already mentioned on the show - like ARGUS or HIVE, thus tying it back to Oliver (like just about everything else on the show). Since ARGUS is going to feature prominently this next season (Hong Kong flashbacks, as intimated at the end of "Unthinkable"), I could see them tying Felicity's father to ARGUS. If they are going to pursue the mystery of who ordered the hit on Diggle's father, I could see them tying Felicity's father to HIVE. I even once speculated that Felicity's father was an old friend of Walter's and that both Walter and her father were tied to the LOA in some way, based on the following facts: Malcolm was in the LOA, Malcolm was friends with Robert and Moira, Walter was friends with them as well, Moira knew about the LOA, Walter asked Felicity for help in investigating Moira, Oliver was referred to Felicity for IT help by someone (Walter?). But now I think ARGUS or HIVE makes more sense. In case it just seems too coincidental that Felicity's father would be tied to ARGUS or HIVE, well maybe it's not. Maybe Walter is connected to ARGUS or HIVE. Maybe Felicity was hired to work at QC by Walter, who had promised her father that he would look after her. This is all pure speculation, of course.