tv echo

Yeah, I might've overreacted to Laurel's line to Oliver about needing a drink of water. I think it was the dismissive, condescending way in which KC said that line - like how a rich person would talk to a servant. Though I still think it's strange to expect someone else to get you a glass of water in your own home.

Looks like Grant Gustin and The Flash (as well as Arrow) will not be part of the DC movie universe... http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-the-flash-will-not-be-part-of-the-dc-movie-universe/18020

Wow, really thorough, Ceylon5! Here is an interesting and insightful analysis by a non-shipper of several relationships on the show - Lauriver, Olicity, Tommy/Laurel and Oliver/Laurel/Tommy - as well as a great analysis of how Diggle and Felicity make Oliver more redeemable, while Laurel has no one to make her more redeemable (I found out about this analysis at www.oliverandfelicity.com, so credit goes to that website for the link): Arrow: Lauriver and Olicity http://seeyouaroundtiger.tumblr.com/post/86947478424/arrow-lauriver-and-olicity (I don't think this has been posted before - I don't recall reading it before.)

Looks like Arrow and The Flash will not be part of the DC movie universe... http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-the-flash-will-not-be-part-of-the-dc-movie-universe/18020

That is one cute baby. The complaints of romance taking over the show only seem to come up in connection with Oliver and Felicity. I don't recall any similar complaints in Season 1 which had a season-long romantic triangle among Oliver, Laurel and Tommy. I also don't recall any similar complaints when the relationship between Oliver and Sara seemed to take over half of Season 2. Hmm... what story line would make Laurel fans "very, very happy"? How about this (all speculation based on spoilers)? To help pay the bills, Oliver gets a job at a new fitness & boxing gym. Partly because she doesn't want to get kidnapped (again), and partly to get closer to Oliver, Laurel joins this gym and starts training. She meets the gym owner, a rough-around-the-edges former boxing champion, Ted Grant, who used to box under the moniker Wildcat. Ted starts training Laurel and they engage in Hepburn & Tracy-like bickering because they're so different (she's snooty and he's more earthy). When Oliver - who's still enamored of his shiny new toy of the moment Felicity (how KC and her fans would describe O/F) - rejects Laurel's attempt to reconnect romantically with him, Laurel turns to Ted for comfort. They start dating and fall for each other. However, probably at the end of Season 3, Ted (her trainer and lover) is murdered and his killer is set free on a legal technicality. Laurel is distraught ("Everyone leave me! Wah!") and vows vengeance. She tracks down and kills Ted's murderer in cold blood. Oliver finds out, but covers it up to protect her. In Season 4, in Ted's memory, Laurel trains even more fiercely and starts taking part in Oliver's crime-fighting outings. Having inherited Sara's canary cry device, she uses that to make up for her fighting inadequacies. She becomes even more ruthless than Sara and becomes known as the Black Canary in Season 5. By then, the O/F romance is over, Laurel and Oliver have become close again as crime-fighting partners and occasional romantic hook-ups. Ta da! Can't you just see the EPs going that route?

Lots of spoilers coming out. I gotta admit it's getting me excited for the new season. With all the possible origin stories in Arrow, I think the EPs have visions of superhero spin-offs (and controlling the DC TV-verse) dancing in their heads. Since Joss Whedon appears to be their idol, maybe they hope to move up into controlling the DC Movie-verse and become his DC counterpart.

Yes, but you picked up on the boxing ring clue and made the connection to Ted Grant. If true, would it be too wild if both new love interests (Ray Palmer, Ted Grant) turned into costumed superheroes?

Ted Grant is a great guess. If Grant is Laurel's new love interest, then I guess the EPs haven't given up on Laurel becoming Black Canary since as others have previously mentioned, in the comics, Ted Grant is Wildcat, a mentor who trained the second Black Canary. He was present at the original Black Canary's death and vowed to look after her daughter.

Wow, that's great that EBR is getting more recognition. I hope she wins, but that's tough competition.

The new spoilers are interesting. Even though AK says that both Felicity and Laurel are getting new love interests, you just know that by the end of Season 3, it'll all come back to Oliver in some way - like Oliver realizes which gal pal getting a love interest disturbs him more (in other words, who he loves more). And AK's enthusiasm about getting Brandon Routh on the show (as the "gamechanger") makes me think that his character, Ray Palmer, may stick around past Season 3, which maybe means he'll stay Felicity's love interest for the forseeable future. It's also possible that Laurel's new love interest gets killed at the end of Season 3, providing impetus for Laurel's journey toward becoming Black Canary (if the EPs haven't given up on that). Otherwise, why not get rid of Laurel altogether? She doesn't add anything to the show. If Oliver needs an ally in the D.A.'s office, he isn't going to need one every week. Just introduce a new, recurring character who's a good lawyer with integrity (someone who didn't have to use blackmail to get his job). You could kill off that character at the end of Season 3 in a tragic Whedonesque move. Maybe make that a thing - like every season, Oliver gets a new ally in the D.A.'s office who gets killed off. Again a mention of Joss Whedon, which is ominous. JW is infamous for not letting his characters be happy. I guess the ultimate prize for all comic book-loving TV producers now is to end up being in charge of overseeing a superhero movie universe.

I think they can have an episode called and about "Sara" and get minimal backlash. But if they have an episode called and about "Felicity", the haters will come out of the woodwork and yell 'fan pandering'. Speaking of the "Sara" episode, maybe it won't be about killing off Sara. Maybe it'll be about Sara becoming Sara again and abdicating her 'Canary' persona. Then maybe she goes off to spend time with her mother. I suspect that Laurel will be front and center, right next to Oliver/Arrow, in the Season 3 cast poster. I think this upcoming season will determine whether or not I continue watching Arrow.

'The Walking Dead': Robert Kirkman talks Season 5 and promises "our best season yet" By Dalton Ross on Jul 17, 2014 at 9:00AM http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/07/17/walking-dead-robert-kirkman-season-5-best/

LOL - works for me.

Let me clarify - I was assuming that Oliver realized his feelings for Felicity long before he said ILY to Felicity but simply chose not to acknowledge them. But, as ArrowLimbo pointed out, when Oliver was "in love" with Laurel, he still had sex with Shado and Sara, as well as countless others (including his baby mama). Even if Oliver didn't realize his feelings for Felicity before "Unthinkable", I still think Oliver is able to compartmentalize and have sex separate from love. My point is that Felicity is not someone who could have sex separate from love and that she would not be able to have sex with one person while in love with another person, in my opinion.

Liked seeing Pasha and Anya again - would've liked it more if they had danced. I found all of the couples' dance routines to be kinda 'meh'. Why wasn't there any dancing during the "Say Something" performance? This is a dance show, and that song is so slow as it is. Even Dancing With the Stars has dancing during a vocal performance.

I have a theory about the couple dynamics between Oliver and Laurel when they were dating. I think Oliver was a weak character before the island and what happened to him during those five years changed him into a strong character. When they were a couple before the island, I think Laurel was the dominant partner. Now, because Oliver's changed, they no longer click as a couple because he's now dominant. (Yes, I know, the perfect couple would be equals, but one person in a couple usually has a stronger personality - unless they're like Jane and Bingley in Pride and Prejudice) Oliver grew up with a strong, protective and somewhat ruthless mother. I suspect his father spent a lot of time at work. In a flashback scene, when Oliver got a girl pregnant, he wallowed in self-pity and told his mother about it. Moira told Oliver she'd take care of it and she did. I think Laurel was similar to Moira in terms of a strong personality (not necessarily similar in character) and that was part of Oliver's attraction to her. In "Blind Spot", there was a scene where Oliver has taken Laurel home after she was arrested for drug possession and she says to him "I could really use a drink of water" and he gets it for her. If she wanted water, why didn't she go to the kitchen and get a glass of water herself? They were in her apartment. She wasn't injured, crippled or bedridden. If I was home with a friend and I wanted water, I'd go and get it myself and, as hostess, offer a drink to my guest. Not only that, but Laurel didn't even ask Oliver to get her water - she didn't say "Can you get me some water, please?" No, she just stated what she wanted - "I could really use a drink of water" and, like a servant in Downton Abbey, Oliver went and got her water. He fell back into an old habit. I have a feeling that this was the dynamic of their relationship when together: Laurel would state what she wanted and Oliver would get it for her. Later, in "Time of Death", when Oliver tells Laurel in frustration that he's "done chasing after her", I think he was referring not just to the time since he returned to Starling City, but also to the entire time they were a couple before the island. I suspect that she was a high-maintenance girlfriend. I think that Oliver cheated frequently on Laurel, not only because he was a spoiled, selfish guy before the island, but also because it was his passive aggressive way of getting back at Laurel. I"m not excusing his cheating, he was still an asshole. I'm just saying maybe it was partly his way of acting out against Laurel subconsciously. Before the island, he probably never overtly went against his mother either. Anyway, that's my theory on the pre-island Oliver/Laurel dynamic.

This episode is notable for a number of things, including making Oliver look gullible for believing in Sebastian Blood in order to prop up Laurel, and having Oliver & Laurel (wearing a white coat) break into city archives even though Laurel could've legitimately accessed those archives as an ADA. If she didn't want to openly access the archives because she didn't want to alert Blood to her suspicions, then that ship already sailed when she visited Blood's mother in the sanitarium (which would keep records of all visitors). It's also notable because Laurel shoots the cop henchman six times and never suffers any remorse over killing another human being (I'm assuming it's her first kill). I also noticed another little thing that just contributes to the perception that Laurel has a sense of entitlement - when Laurel says to Oliver "I could really use a drink of water" and he gets a glass of water for her, while they're in her apartment.

If Oliver tells Felicity that they can't be together and convinces her that they have no future, then I can understand if Felicity feels that she must get over her feelings for Oliver as soon as possible for the good of Team Arrow and their mission. And the way to do that would be to start dating someone else - like Ray. That doesn't necessarily mean having sex right away. I can't see Felicity as someone who would jump into bed with a guy on the first date. I think she would have to fall in love with him first. I can see Felicity trying to develop deeper feelings for Ray while dating and failing. So I wouldn't fault Felicity for dating someone else sooner rather than later, but I do think it would be out of character for her to have sex with someone else while she's in love in Oliver (unless she was drugged). This makes her different from Oliver. If Oliver was telling the truth in "Unthinkable", then he loved Felicity even while he was sleeping with Sara.

I too am afraid that they are bringing Sara back just to kill her off. In any event, the return of Sara to Starling City means more Laurel on my TV screen. More reporting on the spoiler of Caity Lotz returning in the Season 3 premiere ("The Calm"): http://screencrush.com/arrow-season-3-spoilers-black-canary-caity-lotz-premiere/

I think TPTB know and don't care - unless it affects the show's ratings. They've got their own ideas for the show and they're going to force-feed them to the viewers (what we need, not what we want, remember?), confident that they'll change minds.

Good or bad, people in real life are influenced by what they see in entertainment. Sex and the City influenced a lot of how women dressed for a long time. Women in lawyer and cop dramas on TV are often wearing cleavage-bearing outfits and have been for a long time. Poppy Montgomery, as an FBI agent in Without A Trace, used to wear the most ridiculously low-cut suits. I always thought showing a lot of cleavage in the workplace was unprofessional, but now I see it in law firms, corporations and banks.

Your husband makes a great point, Lisasstar. This show is called Arrow. They should just forget about Black Canary, except for the occasional guest visits by Sara as the Canary. There's tons of other comic book characters they could explore on the show. Give Laurel something else to do and, if she's staying on the show, keep her in a secondary or supporting role.

Even with five months' full-time training and motivation, Thea should still have nowhere near the level of fighting skill as Oliver or Sara. There are marital artists who train full-time for years. But she would still be more believable than Laurel.

In the Archie long-running comics, Archie was always torn between his love for brunette Veronica, a spoiled and often selfish rich girl, and blonde Betty, a sweet wholesome girl next door. This love triangle lasted from high school through adulthood. In fact, the comic series ended up doing two parallel story lines, one in which Archie marries Veronica and the other in which Archie marries Betty. Recent news announced that Archie would die taking a bullet for a gay friend. In the last scene, he lays on the ground dying while both Betty and Veronica are by his side and he says "I'll always love you", leaving it unclear who he means. Archie, Betty and Veronica formed the classic love triangle - with the hero torn between a blonde and a brunette. In Arrow, there's Laurel, a brunette (originally) who often acts like a spoiled and selfish rich girl, and Felicity, a blonde who's sweet and wholesome. They're both in love with the hero Oliver. EDITED TO ADD: Coincidentally, there used to be an old TV show called Land of the Giants. The characters included the hero, the strapping Captain Steve Burton, as well as a brunette, rich society girl named Valerie, and a sweet blonde stewardess named Betty. The show hinted at a possible romance between Steve and Valerie, and also hinted that Betty had a crush on Steve.

I never cared for the Audrey character so her death didn't bother me or surprise me. I'd love to see another season of 24 with Jack Bauer back, along with Chloe and Kate.