TheFinalRose

What I hate is the fundies tossing around the term "forgiveness" as if it neutralizes everything and anything that went down. And I don't believe any of those young girls were in a position to "forgive" Josh his trespasses immediately upon discovery, which I have a feeling is what they were forced to do. Imagine the internal struggles the girls go through berating themselves for still "remembering" what happened, or for having "angry thoughts" towards Josh when they "forgave" him. It's so messed up.

Anna won't leave. She does not have the immense courage it would take. Plus, we do not know if her parents would emotionally support that decision, either. Also, Josh will sweet talk her into forgiving him some more, 7 x 70 as Jesus said. It's her decision, but really, it's sad because she might feel she has no options.

And this, in a nutshell, is why this family has always made me scream. I've never kept up with the show as it aired on TLC, instead saw most of it On Demand, but with each episode my blood pressure kept rising to the point where I just couldn't view the family as "entertainment." None of their children have been prepared to live in the real world, and I always looked at those girls and wondered how they would fare down the road ... maybe when they were thirty, or 38, or 45, their perfect fundy marriages or worlds would come crashing down and then WHAT WOULD THEY DO???? They have no education, will be stuck with many many many mouths to feed, and then what? Poverty, is what I'm seeing down the road. Now add the fact that they've been subjected to the exploratory interests of a male and yeah, great job Boob. But then, what do you expect? The parents are obsessed with sex. C.S. Lewis once made an interesting analogy about a society where food was considered as taboo as sex, and imagined peep shows where the curtain would draw back and there would be a steak and people would pay to see it. How odd would that be, he wondered. I always think of that when I encounter anything Duggar.

Here's what irks me about Carole, the writer. She knows it took her years to write each of her books; she always said how long it took for her to write TWG, and then the other night was, for me at least, the first time I remember her alluding to the fact that it also took her about the same length of time to write What Remains. So, knowing that her creative process is a long one, why did she sign a contract agreeing to deliver a second book in a time period which she has never met before, and probably knew would be a challenge for her? I wrote professionally for a trade magazine (nonfiction) and had deadlines I had to meet. I've also written creatively (fiction), and while I had no trouble (or enjoyment) out of meeting the magazine deadlines I know I could never write creatively with a firm deadline hovering over me. It just ruins the fun. So I feel for Carole, but then on the other hand, if someone paid me thousands of dollars upfront for work I would damn well meet their deadlines. Other than that I wish Carole would film all the time in her apartment, sitting on that sofa. I love it. As for Bethenney, I love her. I never seem to get irked with her, like I do with Heather. I probably wouldn't enjoy being close to Bethenney in real life, but she is a perfect tv character. And Heather I do not miss at all this season, because I find her to be really really really bossy.

I have no sympathy for the fact that Josh was fourteen. That is old enough to know right from wrong, and there are plenty of fourteen year old boys who deal with their hormones without approaching their little sisters. And there are plenty of fourteen year old boys who are not comfortable with girls, or who are shy and don't have other outlets for their raging hormones, who still do not approach their little sisters once, much less repeatedly. I am not a fan of JimBob and Michelle for so many reasons. However, I find this fall from grace to be almost Biblical. I long suspected they would have some kind of comeuppance, although I predicted they'd have a gay kid and have to learn to accept him/her. I never would have dreamt up this doozy.

I'm glad it was Kaitlyn, (but I was spoiled too, because I wasn't going to watch a Britt season). Fleiss etc. pulled a fast one on her inserting Britt into the process. I've always liked Kaitlyn, and I didn't even notice that there wasn't an ambulance in this season's previews, because NICK VIALLI! What is with that guy? Does he have some kind of mumbo jumbo witchcraft that mesmerizes all these girls? IDK. Des was my favorite too, but I'm up for a season of Bad Bachelorette. All the guys are fugly. I have no one to root for. Well, except maybe Nick. I preferred him over the doofus who won/lost Andi Doorman. Let the games begin!

Fun sightings! Also, just want to say that my sister saw the real John John crossing the street in NYC back in the day. So yeah, she partied with John John too, sorta. Take that Sonja!

Love this! IMO LuAnn presents herself beautifully, and it seems effortlessly, too, although I'm sure she works at it. Maybe it's her short hair? She does not give off the "trying to recapture my youth" vibe which bugs me about Carole. This is what I don't like about Carole: she doesn't work; she doesn't cook; she doesn't have anyone that she takes care of -- a pet or even a fish. We've never seen her family as part of her everyday life -- what does she really do with herself all day? I don't think her life is as glamorous or as full as she wants you to believe, and I think she's kind of grasping now. This season was filmed after The Widow's Guide came out, and I think the cool reception to the book might have thrown her into "I'm a hot chick" identity mode to replace the "I'm a sought after novelist" identity she had since she came on the show.

This is Sonja in a nutshell. Kudoooz to you SFoster 21! How different she would be if she got real about her judgement and said I was play acting like a big-time negotiator but I didn't have thirty years of experience doing it, like old man Morgan did, and I screwed up and ruined my finances. I can imagine when the cameras are off she deeply regrets naively playing around in the shark-infested Hollywood waters and she got bit in the butt big time. Except for that one major mistake she might have been all right financially. That's what she really regrets, but as Bethenney said it's time to MOVE ON. What irks about Sonja is the celebrity and location name-dropping! Good grief, in her social group why does she still do that? All those women have had brushes with celebrity (Carole!) but you can't build your identity on it. I would think being around celebrities de-sensitizes you to them; you see that they are still human, and usually flawed to the nth degree, and not any kind of a big deal. Which makes me think Sonja is experiencing some kind of psychic split, at least when the cameras roll, that is. I truly wonder what she is like on a non filming day. I suspect much more likable.

Wow, what a fun read! Thanks for posting that. I'm rooting for Hayley and Blair to win. I'm in the pro-Blair camp all the way; of course he's not perfect, but he's very impressive. And Hayley is about the only one on this cast that's had a personality worth watching, so I'd love to see them win. I'm thinking the production people LOVED their dynamic.

Thanks for the clip! On tv it looks very claustrophobic and tiny, so I thought maybe the tour would prove it otherwise, but, uh, no, it didn't. I'd go nuts living in there, either with or without Hannah. Maybe its the really bad wall colors? I'd definitely settle for fewer clothes and Louis Vuitton crap in exchange for more natural light and square footage.

Exactly. Charleston is not overflowing with opportunities like that. Sure, he has time to recover, I guess, from messing up, but he doesn't seem self-motivated at this point. Maybe he's burnt out, maybe he doesn't love law, whatever. Being cast on a reality show is probably not conducive to the self-motivation you need to study for the bar. I imagine that if he does pass the bar, and get a credible job, will he have to choose between the show and his career? I would think so. So maybe he's putting it all off to ride the Southern Charm train. I'm surprised he's not looking to find a rich girl version of Shep or Whitney who would be willing to marry him and give him access to the kind of life he sees.

I always feel cold hearted because I can't imagine myself bawling over a letter from home, either. Now, a page with pictures of my pets, like Jenn got, would send me over the edge. I know, right? And the thing about this cast is that half of them are so dumb they probably remember it as happening the way Rodney makes up, and the other half are too scared to get on Rodney's impression-making list to question him.

Hi! I usually don't post on the Survivor forum, but, well I felt it was my duty as a citizen to speak against the atrocity that is this cast. I'm sure Peachy trolls this and EW comments to gauge reactions. Mark Burnett is probably now too wrapped up with his Bible dramas to notice the nasty turn this show has taken. Over at EW people are similarly turned off by these guys. As for a winner, I guess Shirin is emerging as most deserving, in an underdog sort of way. Tyler and Sierra I just can't--they sin by being the proverbial "good men who do nothing," aligning themselves with the nasty majority when there were other options to go with, thereby allowing evil to succeed. Dan, Rodney, Will better not show up on any future seasons. Carolyn is evil, but stealth, can't root for her. Mike allowed this nasty group to flourish, and while I have moments of rooting for him it's only because everyone else is so much more awful. Meanwhile, Jenn, Hali and Joe must be having a blast together at Loser Lodge and they deserve it!

A lot of attorneys don't want to be attorneys. Craig parties nonstop, doesn't seem to understand why going into the office to do your job once in a while might mean something to his employer, doesn't carry his own cash, and that room being the disaster that it is does add up to something amiss, in my opinion. Does he have ADD? Can't take the time to organize his room, can't sit down to study, can't sit down at the office. I think the show's success has made him think he can get some kind of brass ring out of his life that was never reachable before. But, at the same time, it's a very temporal brass ring. Whatever money he thinks he could make from modeling is no where near what he could make from establishing a career. Plus I don't find him attractive, and he does seem too old to start out. Maybe he can be a thing in Charleston, but that's a small town. I had a friend who grew up there and left for a bigger city...she said there was nothing there. Does he have school loans? He seems like he's regressing and at 26 it's okay to have fun but, geez, how empty do you have to feel inside to go out to bars and drink until the wee hours every single night? Doesn't anyone's liver give out on them?

I laughed and laughed over this jinjer. Thank you. Ugh Ramona's house. I would be throwing money at that exterior first thing. Those faux-Tara columns are awful and tacky. Ramona's home and her style need an update. I think interiors need an update every ten years ... otherwise you end up living in a grandma house. That's my goal, to be 80 and redecorating, even if it is just my assisted living room. I'm going out on a limb and say Carole isn't into being a writer anymore. Her first book was awesome, the Widow's Guide not. She's obviously uninspired, so I wouldn't hold out much hope that this second book is going to be anything worthwhile. Just googled the second book and it's supposed to be essays titled "A Girl's Guide to Life." IDK, she seems like a little bit of a loser now to me, I would give the side eye to most of her advice. Guess it's the third season backlash, also the fact that I don't respect someone who does not fulfill a professional obligation/contract. Maybe Radzi is on her way to Sonja (SexyJ) lala land too.

That People article is not objective. I bet Bethenney glared at Jason with a menacing look many times too. And if Brynn was crying and didn't want to go with her mom then maybe Jason would say "I'm sorry but you have to go." The stuff about Cookie, though, why did Bethenney leave Cookie with Jason anyway if he was so horrible and not the dog's primary caretaker? I have two dogs and I leave explicit instructions with my husband when I leave him with them, purely because the hubby is not attuned to their routines. The throwing the dog in a bag in a cab and sending it/her/him to a doggie hotel...well, maybe Jason was going out of town and they doggie hotel said put Cookie in a cab and we'll take it from there? IDK. Alls I know is that I saw Jason on those spin off shows, and he was a pretty decent guy. The things they were fighting about were not unusual negotiations in a marriage. I've seen Bethenney, and she is prickly and demanding, so good luck trying to paint Hoppy as the devil. Back to Dorinda (Dorito, Doroda, Dodi-Diana), I got claustrophobic as soon as Ramona walked into her apartment, with the kitchen right there by the door and then the table two feet away. I also get crazy when I see Kristin's apartment and those kids running around screaming in there.

I really wonder what Jason was doing that was so horrible that she had to leave this precious apartment? I think I remember her complaining that he and his dad watched sports on the tv while she was there, and that it was horrible, and who could live like that? I don't think Bethenney can live with anyone frankly. She's just miserable and that's her identity. That being said, I think she's great tv. I guess my HD tv came through loud and clear tonight because I thought the Countess was starting to look like that Madame puppet--her jaw and cheekbones looked more hollow than I remember. Is she ever going to film in her apartment? I really disliked Carole in that scene with her editor. I remember reading that Carole got a two book deal, the fiction book first, which no one thought was that great, and then she was on the hook for a book of essays after that. Well it took her five years to write that middling Widow's Guide, of course she only has a TOC at this point. So upthread it said she can't blog unless she turns in some chapters first? Seems like the publishing company's legal team is not laughing at cute lil' Carol anymore. I didn't miss Heather. Of course she wasn't on the show yet, because there wasn't a big fight for her to take someone's side and argue for them. Other than that what does she bring? Sonja I checked out of caring about two seasons ago. I was thinking that Dorinda was channeling Princess Diana's look the summer she died. But no with the Joe Guidice doppelgänger.

When I was watching the repeat last night there was an obvious voice over of Kathryn saying "you watch the baby" that seemed inserted later after she stomped off. So maybe she got mad that she looked like a child abandoning strumpet and complained? IDK. The nanny was there and left when Thomas got home; it seemed like Kathryn got her revenge by making T-Rav deal with the morning baby care when he usually just gets up and takes care of himself. Kind of like, haha, she got him, but he probably was really annoyed that she wasn't there and he couldn't just bop off and do his thing. Shep is the best reality show character, he is so funny. Craig still bugs. Cameron can shoot all her scenes in her house, please, it's so pretty.

Loved Cameran's kitchen! Thomas keeps saying that Katherine is too young but IMO he is the one that still has a lot of growing up to do. i thought Katherine looked real pretty in all her appearances tonight so last week's Mrs Doubtfire getup was probably just a miss. Landon seems sad. Which is nice for reality tv because life is sad sometimes. Craig is still a waste of space although if he does have those self-image issues I guess he should just go ahead and soak up being popular now and get it out of his system. It ain't hurting anyone but himself. Well, he's hurting me because I love this show, and he's on it. Patricia has the doggie stroller that I am very tempted to buy! I have a little dog who doesn't like to take her walk in the afternoon but I always suspected she would like going out in a stroller! I'm just not rich or eccentric enough to pull off the doggie in a stroller--yet.

That reminds me that I thought Cameron was pretty funny when she was describing what to say when a friend had an ugly baby: "Isn't she/he precious?" I literally have been tongue-tied several times in my life when I "went to see the baby" and was staring down at these red, old-man faced looking newborns and I could not think of a nice thing to say fast enough (or at all.) Now I'll hopefully remember to say "My, how precious!" Thanks Cameron!!!!

That's exactly how I feel, only about Craig. Shep at least is witty and charming, and that belies a natural intelligence in my book. Craig, on the other hand, is a cardboard cutout stereotype. I find him utterly boring and immature. I feel sorry for Kathryn. No one knows what it is like to have a baby until after you have one and choosing to have a child does not make you immune from the way it turns your world upside down. I can see the shell-shocked look on Kathyrn's face in regards to her current life but it is not her fault per se. She has a crap partner in Thomas and I hope she ends up living back in civilization. I bet you're right. He seems completely unself-aware. As for Landon, I thought her divorce story was actually kind of sad. But, that being said, getting a role on Southern Charm is not a bad turn of events.

Oh thank goodness it's Kaitlyn. She probably had a few drinks and jumped in the pool with her top off or something during the cocktail party while Britt sat on the porch flipping her hair and reapplying her lipstick. Plus Kaitlyn swears and probably talked about how important it is for her to test drive her guys in the Fantasy Suite, on purpose, while Britt gave out hugs. I wanted Kaitlyn to begin with, so this news makes me happy.

I think Chris liked a lot of girls during his journey. He liked Whitney a lot as she had many outgoing, personable qualities that he admired so he slotted her in his Definitely Yes Category. Also in the Definitely Yes Category at some point in the process were Jade and Britt, but each fell out, and as they fell out he realized that this Becca woman who was hanging around should also belatedly be slotted into his Definitely Yes Category too. However, he put her in the slot too late in the process and she didn't have the same amount of time as the other candidates to develop her feelings for him, and time ran out (insert sound of buzzer ringing as timer goes off). Kaitlin was just a party girl that was fun to hang around with, plus she told him during the Jimmy Kimmel date that she thought a test-drive in the fantasy suite was something she thought you needed to do, so he was definitely keeping her around for the sex but she was never going to be the one. So at the end Chris only had one person left in his Definitely Yes Category who had been there long enough to be a sure thing, and that was Whitney. But now he's probably realizing that Becca got lost in the crowd, and if he had picked her for one on ones earlier in the process she might have been feeling it more than she did by the end. So that's why he's blah on Whitney now. I don't see them getting married. I do see him texting Becca as much as he can.

This totally applies to Whitney. I think Chris is pissed because she was ready to move to Iowa and now that she wins and is the Type A pants wearer of the two she probably told him that they need to work on their relationship before she moves, code for "yippee! I got to play the part of the princess on tv, but back home, in the safety of my Chicago apartment, where I get to be on my own from Sunday night to Friday, I'll take my time and reconsider the whole Iowa thing." Whitney was so absolute that Chris was her guy before she even met him and she probably is one of those people who pride themselves on seeing things through to the end, ignoring all the flashing lights and warning bells going off.