DeeDee79

Hate to nitpick but Adalind asked where he was moving and he said he'd send her the address. She didn't tell him to text her. I thought that this was a pretty good episode. I liked that the majority of the focus was on the case and not all of the drama that has gone on so far this season. I'm not sure if we were supposed to be understanding of the fact that El Cuegle was trying to prevent future tragedy when his very presence in the couples home set off the future strife that leads to their deaths. Also, I hoped that Meisner had been resurrected at some point and was back to steer Renard in the right direction and was kinda bummed that he's really most sincerely dead.

Word! Sam and Dean have been through the wringer more times than we can count and it's always been another day at the office. The seals breaking and the apocalypse were way more intense than six weeks in the slammer.

Noooooo!!!!! *sigh* So over Lucifer and his antics. He's been the focus of too much of the 12th season so far and way too much of season 11. :(

I recently rewatched this ep when TNT began it's rerun of season 4 and it still hits me the same way as it always does. Dean clawing his way out of the grave, the whole opening sequence with Jensen keeping us riveted without uttering a word, the humorous reunion with Bobby (holy water to the face-hee!) and the emotional reunion with Sam will always be awesome. Little things that made me uneasy still make me uncomfortable on rewatch: Dean slapping the waitress (even though she's a demon), Sam beating the crap out of the same waitress (I know still a demon!) and the outright ruse as to who Christie aka Ruby really is. As a side note Cas had a badass introduction which makes me wistful considering how softened he's became in the following seasons :(

Does Soulless Sam count as not-Sam? If so that's my favorite one. If not it would definitely be Lucifer Sam from The End.

Yes, that was bizarre and out of character. They may have had the "don't look for me" talk due to their line of work but for me it was hard to buy Sam not even looking for his brother or Kevin. The flashbacks that showed how shaken he was after Dean's disappearance helped in showing his state of mind but it still didn't seem like Sam.

I'll agree that Sam was open to the fact that all monsters weren't bad and that the brothers hadn't had any encounters with demons that weren't out to do them harm. However, Sam's willingness to listen to Ruby was in large part to her telling him how powerful he could be and the demon blood only made it worse. I blame the writing mostly; we saw Sam telling Chuck that he had to take on Lilith because Dean wasn't strong enough and the situation was made worse after the encounter with the Siren. Bottom line I feel that the combination of Ruby's influence and the blood consumption went a long way to changing Sam's demeanor in season 4. I strongly feel that this was the season that did the most damage to his character.

I agree with this. I like both brothers but I do tend to favor Dean as well. We can agree to disagree. I don't mean to be argumentative; my apologies if that's how I came across in my response.

Why should Dean have compromised when Sam was willing to put all of his trust into a demon? I know that the angels weren't on the up and up but I would argue that Sam had never put any stock into what demons had to say until he had one by his side pumping up his ego with how powerful he could be and how he was the only one that could stop Lillith and stop the apocalypse etc, etc. I also admit that the consumption of human blood added to his behavior but had Dean done anything so entirely wrong to want his brother to see his side of trusting ( somewhat ) good over evil as they had always done? A few dick angels doesn't equal demons who have their own agenda and always do more harm then good. I still hate the fact that they worked alongside Meg who had done so much harm to them and John in the past. Dean didn't throw in with the angels to go against his brother; he threw in with the angels to go against demons and Lucifer. Furthermore, Castiel has gotten plenty of flack for all of the crap he's done to the Winchesters and in regards to the mytharc in general. I can recall Dean's washing his hands of him after the Leviathan debacle and only barely forgiving him after he took on Sam's shattered mind. It frustrates me to even debate about this. Again I say that it isn't about brother against brother; whatever criticism that the writers spare Dean of on the show the fans certainly make sure to do in fandom.

This is why I see Dean breaking the 1st seal and Sam breaking the last seal in different lights. Dean survived 30 years in Hell undergoing unspeakable torture and reached his breaking point after which he was released from the rack and as a result broke the 1st seal. However, he had no idea that he would be rescued from Hell; he was simply giving in to relief from eternal torture. Sam on the other hand had been told by both his brother and angels whom he held in high regard (until he met Uriel) that he was headed down a dangerous path and that demons couldn't be trusted. He shouldn't even have needed to be told; from experience of years of being a hunter he knew how untrustworthy and shady demons were but he was so cocky from the demon blood he was ingesting he saw himself as the only hope of averting the apocalypse and his weak ass brother wouldn't be strong enough to assist. I cringed when he beat his brother to a pulp when he tried to stop him in When the Levee Breaks. It took a while before I enjoyed Sam again even thought I enjoyed his character a great deal before season 4. I know this is just a show with characters that are only as flawed as their writers make them out to be but I hate it when people try to rationalize Sam's season 4 dickishness when looking down on Dean for everything under the sun.

I agree 1000x's to this. In my opinion the last interesting strong Cas storyline was when he was trying to defeat Raphael's attempts to take over Heaven. Everything that came after including the Leviathans, mind control via Naomi and getting tricked by Metatron was awful to watch. Cas as introduced in seasons 4-5 was portrayed as much stronger; everything afterwards has bordered on pitiful. Crowley had some potential to be the big bad that he was in earlier seasons at the end of season 10 when the last of his lingering humanity was leeched after Sam tried to kill him but that didn't last very long. Rowena is more of a baddie than he is these days.

Exactly! I feel that when she helped them with gathering the souls needed to save Chuck it was a turning point in her perception of the Winchesters. She almost seems reluctantly fond of them now. I miss Death and his love for greasy snack foods!

I rewatched the Asa Fox ep and I came away with another unpopular opinion: I don't despise/mind Billie. Let me preface by saying that I love Supernatural and it's my must see tv. With that being said as a woman of color it would be nice to see a little representation on my favorite show. The best we've gotten was Rufus who was awesome and Kevin who died brutally (both of whom were killed unnecessarily!!!). I understand her animosity because the brothers have cheated death numerous times and then killed Death who had done them a solid more than once; for instance restoring Sam's soul was no small feat. I feel that she's going to become an ally rather than an enemy based on their interaction with her thus far. She's griped and grumbled about the Winchesters but helped them out when they needed her.

I enjoyed part 1 more than part 2 also. I was glad to finally see a resolution to all of the kids that Azazel had chosen and find out his reasons for doing so. That being said this is an episode that I've only rewatched once or twice. With all of the times and ways that the brothers have died throughout the years the first deaths were the hardest to watch and it's painful watching Sam being stabbed and then dying in Dean's arms. Yes!!

The "Whoops"- bang scene? Love it too!

I agree wholeheartedly to all of this. Season 2 is my most rewatched season; Nightshifter is one of my top ten fave eps of the entire series partly due to the addition of Henriksen and I also love Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things, Roadkill, Playthings, Crossroad Blues and Tall Tales. I especially have a soft spot for Roadkill because the ending showed for the first time that all spirits weren't vengeful and that there was a possibility for a peaceful afterlife.

I'm still getting my feet wet on this forum and I hope I don't alienate anyone with the following unpopular opinions :) I don't hate John Winchester. I think he was a neglectful parent whose actions were largely due to grief and rage but he wasn't the heartless monster that much of fandom has made him out to be. While I'm mostly a Dean girl I love both brothers. It saddens me when I follow lively and interesting episode discussion that veers into brother vs. brother wars. Both are flawed and both are awesome; you don't have to tear down one to like the other. I like Castiel but I wouldn't be bothered if he were no longer on the show. I feel that he had definitely done alot for the brothers and the shows overall mythology but when he's not there I don't miss him or think about him. I would enjoy the show equally as much if he was gone. I like Crowley but enjoyed him more when he was a genuine adversary instead of a buddy/partner to TFW. When he tries to be threatening now there's no real menace behind it. Following on the heels of my last opinion is that I wish that Sam and Dean still faced down genuinely scary creatures. They no longer seemed phased by anything that crosses their path unless it's something bigger that could threaten their overall existence ( the Darkness, MOC, Leviathans, etc.) I understand at a certain point it would be unrealistic for them to not be jaded by what they may face but I still miss it. I didn't like the Trickster and I don't know why so much of fandom is so enamored of him. His so-called "lessons" were about his own amusement and agenda; he didn't care about anyone else as far as I could see. Azazel and Abbadon were the best baddies on the show; Lucifer has lost his bite because he's always shown as more of a petulant child than a villain. That's all I got for now *bites nails*

*snicker* This ep was a big snooze me. I'm so tired of the Lucifer story line even though Rick Springfield did a pretty good job in the role. I found a lot of this ep to be pretty boring even with the the combo of Dean/Sam and Cas/Crowley all in the mix. I didn't care about Luci's angst from Chuck's departure and I didn't care about the people that we met that were in Vince's circle or their deaths ( but Dwayne Wayne! ) . I'm ready for the show to return to the MOTW format because we've already been through Lucifer as the big bad storyline and as someone said upthread this is a tired retread.

I think a movie would be a good idea. I remember when the first X-Files movie came out and how cool it was to see the mythology fleshed out on the big screen. It would have been interesting if they had done so while the whole apocalypse arc was going on but I suppose a Chuck vs. Lucifer showdown could be entertaining.

After rewatching I'd like to add that I hope they bring back the twins. The fact that they were brought up and trained by a witch would definitely be useful and it would be nice to get a break from Rowena when they need those kind of skills.

I enjoyed this ep and it's always nice to see Jody. The introduction of Asa was well done and just from the flashes of his life that was shown in the intro I liked the guy. I excitedly thought that we were going to get another hunter for the Winchesters to bond with but it was nice to see them socializing even if it was at a wake. I'm not sure what to feel about the Mary story line just yet. I know this is a show about supernatural beings and the hunters that take care of them but we've only seen disjointed conversations about their feelings and the back from the dead situation in between the rest of the action that's taking place. I know this show isn't overly talky but it would be nice to have a scene with the three of them talking things out instead of keeping their distance. My mom and I were talking about this too! I hope the show brings this up; I'm also curious about if Mary knew Bobby also.

Sadly it seems that most episode discussion eventually turns out this way *sigh*

I understand your viewpoint but while Dean may care about Cas it is in no way on the same level as Sam. Saying that Cas is like family doesn't mean that Dean views him as equal to Sam; I wouldn't even think that Dean would pick John over Sam and he's actual family. We have to consider that Cas contributed to killing Dick Roman after he had taken on Sam's wall ( which admittedly he was at fault for breaking ) and due to the fact that even though he's an angel he was significantly weakened. He's still important to Dean it's not out of character that he would want to make sure that he made it to safety. Dean would have assumed that Cas was in danger or that he had gotten unknowingly separated from him; he wouldn't think that Cas had abandoned him because he's always gone above and beyond to help whenever the Winchesters were in need even to the detriment of himself and his standing in Heaven. Sam may have been in peril but he's a hunter and just as capable as Dean and most importantly still on Earth whereas Dean was in a completely unknown and dangerous landscape as was Cas. Dean and Cas were definitely in more immediate danger and I don't think that wanting to return to safety with one that is considered family means that they hold more importance to that of actual family. Again, YMMV but that's my humble opinion. Cas is important to Dean but in no way as important as Sam.

Hello all *waves* I'm not new to this site but new to this thread and I wanted to chime in after lurking for quite a bit. This quote in particular *points upward* made me want to respond. I respect your opinion AWESOMEO4000 but I don't think that Dean has ever given anyone the same consideration that he gives Sam and that includes Cas. Dean has shown that he's very loyal to those that he cares about and that's what drove him to search for Cas instead of hauling ass to the portal and back to Sam. I can't fathom Dean leaving someone behind when he had the means to help them reach safety; it would be completely out of character for him to do so. With that being said if it was the choice between Sam and Cas he would always choose Sam. That was apparent when Gadreel warned that he would leave without healing Sam if Cas wasn't sent away from the bunker and Dean did so without a second thought.

This is hilarious but also sad because it's spot on. Hank will forever be the sidekick that doesn't get the girl unless she's got ill intentions ( Adalind, Zuri ).