DeeDee79

Yes, that's it! :)

I can't recall the name of the season 3 ep where this happened but Two Minutes to Midnight was in season 5 when they first met Death. Nitpicking I know :(

I get being a Sam fan but this just seems like anti Dean thinking to me.

Personally I feel that they have both gotten their moments to shine throughout the series and since it's a show about brothers that's the way that it should be. I don't understand all of the comments about Sam the screw up, Dean is never wrong & Sam finally getting a big kill. I don't get the Sam vs. Dean overall tone but it never takes long for it to emerge I guess ☹️

My response was in regards to this speculation from @MysteryGuest : "So now that Sam has signed up with the BMOL, we can expect him to start lying to Dean about where he goes and what he's doing. He's not going to come right out and tell him, because he has to bring him around to their side slowly." I'm basically saying that the PTB have been there and done that already in season four and I hope that they don't go down that road again.

And this is basically the same thing that happened in season four to cause the rift between them. Sam lying to Dean when he was going to meet up with Ruby, trying to bring Dean around to him using his powers and drinking demon blood followed by the season ender with the brothers estranged.

Neither of them have been written in the best light; all of the shine seems to be going to the writing for Mary. The writers seem to be moving towards the overused brother against brother story line with this episode. I don't want to watch anymore of that crap.

And she's apologized for nothing!! A half assed apologizing after which you immediately try to justify what you've been doing is not a true apology.

I enjoyed the episode for the most part until the end. I liked that they picked up where last week's episode left off and we were able to hear what was being discussed. I really liked Dean laying it all out for Mary and Sam not hiding his disappointment with all that she's been keeping from them. They may be adults but she wants to be "family" and you don't do shit like that to family when you actually give a damn about them. My irritation started with the spat about choosing a side before Dean went for a drink because I don't want all of her crap with the BMOL to put them at odds; that's been done to death in previous seasons. By the end where Dean was apologizing for having feelings for fucks sake and Sam deciding that he was on board the ep went from a B to a F for me. Why??!!!!

I've often felt that John should have been featured far more than was shown. Even if the character had to be written off due to the unavailability of the actor they could have done more with the onscreen relationship in the time that they had.

This entire post is spot on. I'll just add that Sam and Dean may have had less angsty drama between them when compared to previous seasons but they have ignored plenty of potential brother moments that would have been appreciated.

The only reason I think what she's doing is ultimately forgivable and not necessarily a big deal in the long term is *because* she's their mother. If she were just some rando, I'd be like, "Who is this idiot? She's useless. Sam and Dean better wise up and tell her to fuck off." But since she's Sam and Dean's mom, I assume that's not an option -- and she's also got a lot more chances and a lot more leeway with me. I would also think she's got pretty much infinite chances and infinite leeway with them...although maybe if she weren't their mom and and if she believed that they might turn on her, she would be a little more careful and behave a little better, actually! From my viewpoint I was just so happy to see Sam and Dean have their mother back after all of the irreconcilable differences with their father that I've been hoping that Mary will be shown to be cut from a different mold and not another source of angst that John has become over the course of the series when he's referred to. Even though they are adults and have become their own men they're also so about family that I want to see this to work out for them.

I agree that Sam has been too complacent with everything that has happened. The only inkling that we got that he was affected by anything that's happened to him this season was the "broken ribs and burnt feet"comment. I want to see him express some actual emotion about what is going on around him.

Very true. Mary has barely spent time with her sons and prefers to hunt, read John's journal and have time to herself instead of getting to know the men that her babies have become. She's blood but she hasn't done anything so far to prove that she's family.

A close friend of mine is a gay male and he uses the term " that's so gay" on occasion when regarding things/instances in a negative fashion. While it may be seen as inappropriate to others he's very open and proud of his sexuality. However as a hetero female I realize I'm not one to make a definitive statement on this. May I ask what was the interview/venue that is being discussed in this convo?

I remember reading ( I can't recall where..it may have been here ) that she felt that Bobby and Cas had run their course and I thought that was total bullshit. When you have beloved characters that add to the story line why kill them off? Just for a more interesting story? Between Bobby, Rufus, Charlie, Kevin, and lesser seen characters like Victor, Balthazar ( sobbing ) and Gabriel ( despite my love/hate for him ) they had much potential to flesh out the Supernatural universe instead of the never ending story that seems to mostly consist of Angel, Demon and Lucifer drama for the last few seasons.

I'm sure that they didn't mean for it to come across as racist or sexist but considering the long running tasteless Busty Asian Beauties gag I was disappointed in the writing but not surprised.

I ship them too!

I was basically agreeing with you in regards to the viewpoint that Dean may be seen as flirty in his interactions whether it may be male or female due to his personality but also stating that it doesn't mean that Jensen is choosing to play him as anything other than hetero.

Indeed!

And I don't think that you are implying that. I'm simply stating that while it's one thing to want to see a character in one light the onus shouldn't be on the actor if he doesn't agree with the interpretation of the fans.

I can see the viewpoint of seeing Dean as being unconsciously sexual to the point of where he flirts with both women and men alike on autopilot because it's in his nature. What I don't see is Jensen stating that he doesn't portray Dean as bi and fans calling him a homophobe because he isn't down with Destiel.

Me too. I thought that they were going to have him react like a homophobic asshat but I was glad that they didn't go there.

Perfectly stated @RulerofallIsurvey and @ahrtee. The portrayal of the character is up to the actor; he shouldn't alter his performance because fans may see something different than what he intended to come across on screen.

True dat! :)