bijoux

I agree about the baby only being hypothetical in the book. What I'm saying is that by omitting the mentions of prison and underground from the series, the producers are implying more heavily that June could be addressing Holly. I don't think she'd think of the prison as a place where she might see her baby again. Which is not to say I think it's definitely Holly as the addressee in the series, just that she's a viable option. I think the daughter the snotty professor mentions Offred might be protecting by using what he assumes are pseudonyms, is supposed to be Offred's daughter from her marriage, i.e. show's Hannah. I don't think she was ever named in the book.

This is actually in Chapter 41, after Offred and Nick sleep together for the first time, and after this she talks about how she kept going back without Serena's insistence or knowledge. I bolded the parts I remember hearing in the episode. Interestingly, in the book prison and underground are listed under the places where Offred and 'her' might meet. I'm pretty sure that wasn't on the show, which implies Holly more heavily.

I found a copy online and I think actually the entire, or most of, voice over was from the book, though not from the epilogue. I'll take this to the Palimpset thread.

When the media reports stated this would be a mostly quiet episode I rolled my eyes and expected complete boredom. And I did kind of drift away at the start of the episode, but somewhere along the line it clicked for me and by the time the birth(s) rolled around, it made sense to me as a self-contained story, and I think dealing with Nick and Eden in this episode would have distracted from it. I enjoyed the way the past and present were being weaved together. First with dropping off Hannah at kidergarten and feeling like she was abandoning her while dreading this would happen with her new baby. Then, the birthing scenes were excellent in my book, the way they contasted the darkness and isolation of giving birth to Holly with the light and community when she gave birth to Hannah. Even the Red Center and the scenes of Janine giving birth were bathed in light and the other handmaids were there to lend emotional support, regardless of the stupid chanting. Those flashbacks actually felt like June was drawing strength from those communities and feeling their presence at that moment. I also enjoyed her mother in this episode. At first I thought June was being pissy and disinviting her from the birth, when it turned out she actually didn’t expect her to come after being burned too many times. And then she did, and the way she was looking at her daughter and her new family was beautiful. Naming Holly after her was very appropriate after that. Plus, I took it as June wishing that she has the same clarity of vision that her mother did. The final voice over felt a little ominous, with June talking about telling the story for her and maybe meeting one day. If the ‘her’ is Holly, it sounds like they definitely get separated, that June escapes and Holly remains stuck with the Waterfords. I’m trying to tell myself that the ‘her’ is any other handmaid or Martha, and June hopes her words will help them like the letters helped her ta one point. When Serena found the handmaid’s outfit I was super impressed at how quickly June managed to change. I guess she just found one and laid it out as a decoy. Clever move and it resulted in Serena and Fred vacating the premises quickly. Good for June,

I am very impressed with Gotham’s poster. Hat off to the artist.

It's in promo photos from Spoiler TV. The link was posted two pages back.

There's a car seat between Fred and Serena at the drowning! The same car seat in which he bring the baby to church to see June. Christ on a cracker, is this a twofer? Christening and drowning? Gilead, keeping torture cost effective. If this is correct, they have one sick social director, even for them.

It also definitely refers to the Commander who croaked at the beginning. If only they’d all finish the same way.

I'd never have recognized that guy. He looks like a baby on Arrow.

I think it would be dumb as hell if Fred did it. His former handmaid killed herself, June was already 'kidnapped' once, and the Canada thing went down the toilet. And now there's young guys getting their wives pregnant. 'Losing' June again right before she gives birth would be another on his long list of messes. Of course, this is Fred and he's not the sharpest tool in Gilead, so I'm not discounting it completely.

Pryce was Nick's career advisor or something of that ilk. They met when Nick was unemployed, dissatisfied and short-tempered. Pryce tapped into that and recruited him for the Sons of Jacob. How much Nick may have participated in the coup we don't know. But he clearly has proven himself enough to be appointed an Eye.

KA and MB didn't pitch in? I can't imagine either passing up the opportunity to outdo the others here.

Because who didn't join a heist for that reason at one time? ? I loved that.

I was expecting Daphne to be a part of it merely because they were lacking a member to meet the number in the title, but she wasn't in on it from the start. She got in when she figured out HBC was planning something. I don't really want to think about how she actually got into contact with Debbie and Lou, because it feelslike that would spoil how much I enjoyed the movie. And it was a lot. I was laughing all the way through. High five to Daphne hitting it before Claude was taken away by the cops.

@ShalimarGirl, have you encountered people who actually wish for Eden to die here or elsewhere? Because I really don't have the impression that I've read things like that here. Speculation, yes, because this is Gilead, the land of very bad, no good endings. Particularly for side characters. But wishing for it, not really. She is a threat, but I don't think that makes her villainous. I didn't really get the impression that the writing is trying to cast her in that light either.

There is a definite case of the characters serving the plot this season, but I would think that this episode proved that there is no redemption for Serena. Yes, she has traces of humanity and those are fascinating to observe, but in the end she will always be self-serving and petty, and doesn't care if she hurts other to get what she wants, in fact, she relishes it. I actually liked the writers going for it in this episode. As much as one can like inflicting torture on characters. More precisely, I appreciate that they're not shying away from Serena's malice.

Eden and Isaac? Yeah.

I can only think of season 1 when Oliver didn't go after Deadshot with Dig.

Eden’s first private conversation with Serena before Eden’s wedding night included Serena talking about kissing, to which Eden replied, I don’t understand. Later, after Serena talks about sex potentially being enjoyed by both spouses, Eden parrots that lust is a sin. That bit starts after the 2:50 mark. https://youtu.be/bZn-SoHZMvo It’s those things that made me believe that Eden grew up with definite expectations that lay before her and romantic and sexual love wasn’t it.

I’ll admit to being stumped by Eden’s characterization. It seems in opposition to when she was introduced. I don’t have a problem with her feeling sexual stirrings, but she feels too demanding after such a short time. When she was introduced not that long ago, she was not prepared for marriage at all beyond procreation, which by Gilead’s rule is not supposed to happen all that often, and it was stated clearly that it was her mother who told her this. Serena was the first who told her sex could be pleasurable. I don’t understand her suddn assumption that Nick should be touching and kissing her. Once a month rutting to make a baby, definitely. Cnoodling, no. It’s not like she’s living in a household with a couple who are affectionate. And I didn’t expect that to be her parents either. Not abusive like the Waterfords in any way, but not people who raised their kid to expect to be anything more than a vessel. The bit about her mom making her dad take out the trash also seemed unbeliavable to me. I guess all I’m trying to say is that this would have been a more believable development if it took more time. Additionally, what is the official reason for Isaac still being there? He came as Nick’s replacement during the Canada trip and Nick is back from Canada.

It's terribly cute thought. Enough to neutralize Avocado IMO.

My question is was that dress unzipped in the courtroom scenes when she was sitting? I think it's really good that she takes acting classes, but I also believe people who have been longer in the business and have reached more acclaim also do. I didn't find that surprising.

I think Serena not being followed in Canada had mostly to do with the image the Waterfords were supposed to present. Oh noes, the wife is right there, she absconds reading and writing for endless knitting and nuh-uh, no way is she followed. For that purpose I believe only they and Nick went, and Nick was either with Fred at that time, or doing his own thing as he often does.

That's very cool. Knowing only Atwell's Peggy, I think she'd make excellent Captain.

Okay, I really hope the scene with Daniel Porter has nothing to do with what happens on screen. Because that would mean 1) that whiny Curtis got a second guy in a year, after being a total cry baby about it, and 2) that Paul is interested in getting back together. You deserve better, Paul!