Carrie Ann

I'm an Olicity person, but I'd classify myself as a Team Arrow person (Original Recipe: O/D/F) first and foremost, and if pressed, I'd name Diggle as my favorite character (with Oliver and then Felicity immediately behind, by like tenths of a second). So I wasn't thrilled with how little Diggle we got this season, but I don't actually blame any individual character. Not the Lances, not Roy, not Felicity. It was just second-season-itis, in my opinion. Oliver and Diggle had the best relationship development in Season 1, because of the actors' chemistry and because Dig was the only person Oliver could talk to honestly, and was really the audience surrogate for a time. So we had what felt like more meaningful time with him. In Season 2, the writers had to start putting more pieces to work so that the narrative could fire effectively on multiple fronts. And Oliver's relationships with every other character developed further/differently in Season 2, so we spent more time in all of those areas (some more successfully and efficiently than others). And yeah, some of the other characters had meatier storylines, or more overall attention paid to their development, but as I said here sometime this spring--it became apparent that Season 2 was just not going to be a big one for Diggle, and I was OK with that. If I look back on Season 3 and say the same thing, however, I will not be pleased. It's time to do more with him. DR and his chemistry with the other actors is a huge asset that they need to use to greater advantage this year, and I'm optimistic that they will.

Yeah, no I see that for sure. But that's what I meant when I said "It's character regression on a level I'm not sure I've ever seen. And while that might be semi-interesting to explore on an academic level, it's frustrating as hell to watch." Personally, I'm sad to see that that's going to be Elena's ultimate character arc. She went from a strong but flawed heroine, in my opinion, to a weak, pathetic, cruel, selfish person. And if this does end up being the last season, it would be really hard to turn that around at this point. So the show ends with a whimper for me.

I agree that grief has always been a facet of Elena's character--we meet her after she's lost her parents and the whole storyline is about trying to figure out how to go on with life again. But she did. By caring about and holding onto the people she still had (Jeremy, Baroline, Jenna, Matt I guess), and by meeting new people and letting herself become attached to them (Stefan, Damon, Alaric). By living and letting go. That was who Elena was as a human. This Elena? No. Vampire Elena doesn't know how to process difficult emotion at all, and has never allowed herself to do it properly. She distracts, deflects, turns off, tries to fix problems simply so that she can go back to only feeling positive emotions. She never tried to bring either set of her parents back to life, or Jenna. As a human, she accepted death. It's like she can't do that anymore, and she can't connect or empathize with other people the way she used to. It's character regression on a level I'm not sure I've ever seen. And while that might be semi-interesting to explore on an academic level, it's frustrating as hell to watch, especially when it's 100% focused on Damon. Like, wow, yeah, look how great all-consuming love is! Drugs or suicide, take your pick. This was not a promising note to start this season on--especially if she is successfully compelled next week, because that's just another artificial move in the Delena relationship.

Yep, someone would have to trick her into confessing (which also would not hold up in court, but y'know). While watching Jen Lilley act circles around Shawn Christian today, I couldn't stop looking at her enormous eyes. She looks like a Disney princess. I love her, and she's too good for this storyline and this show.

Yeah, in my ideal world, Sara and Nyssa have a plan to escape the LoA and go off the grid to live out their lives together. Then, you know, that plan goes awry and Sara is basically a hostage of Ra's Al Ghul and they spend the season working to find her/get her back. Which they do, and everyone is alive and safe, hurray!

As usual, Price Peterson distills all my feelings about this show into a few simple lines.

That would make sense too, but in general, it's clearly not a convenient job for her, or one worthy of her skills. So I think when Ray offers any kind of job, she'd need to strongly consider. I suspect Oliver will relieve her of any guilt or disloyalty she might feel about it. Or that's what he would do if he isn't a craphead, so fingers crossed...

Ian wants to do Bamon too. They're just all over the triangle and the only people who aren't are JP and CD (and I guess maybe some remaining shipper fans? are there any Delena/Stelena people left at this point?). I just think this needs to be the last season, period. And if it isn't, then at least the three leads need to head for the hills. If the CW really wants to squeeze another season out of this beast, then they can do it without ND, IS, and PW who are all so so so over it. It's getting painful.

Stefan made the pasta sauce with Elena. I don't think we've ever seen Damon cook? And yeah, that scene was really the only part of the ep that was worthwhile, and if I think about it I just get sad because I suspect everything will be status quo by midseason finale time. There's no way they'll let Damon and Bonnie stay happy in the '90s forever! Damon will somehow find out what's become of Elena (a pathetic, horrible shell of her former human self, honestly I cry to think about S1-3 Elena at this point), and abandon everything to fix her.

Yeah, even if he wasn't the most attractive of Lannister prospects, he was still a Lannister, and I think most lower-born women would have married him regardless of personal feelings.

You're my fave and you know it. Mutual appreciation society! I loved seeing familiar names over there too. Anyhoo, I'm just getting into reading other people's stuff so I'm like super slowly reading all these things that are like a year old or more and being like, Oh cool, everything I've ever considered has already been done. But I am not that interested in AU stuff so that actually leaves out a lot of the really popular works. Plus...if something's like over 50K I just can't bring myself to start yet.

Yeah, I think there are flashes of a Jennifer I would like (and I like MR's portrayal of her)--I find her unusual friendships (Kristen, Nicole for 5 minutes) to be the most interesting thing about her these days, but they seem to exist only for the inevitable screwup and judgment-fest. So that's a bummer. I wish they would make her a "good" character but not self-righteous. I wish she would learn something from this thing with Daniel and Nicole, and try to stay out of other people's business. I wish she would stop telling other people how to live their lives, especially when she's so hypocritical about it. I just think, you look at characters like Alice and Caroline, and I wish I could see some of the female characters on this show filling that matriarch role someday. Hope is the only one of the old guard who is good but still tolerable, and tends to stay in her lane. Eh, they'll probably eff her up soon enough.

Gonna skip the abortion question because this is probably not the venue, but I'll take another swing at the rest: 1) Project Leda intended to bring their embryos to term from the beginning, so they intentionally damaged human beings and violated their rights. It's not a retroactive change from good to bad. It was always bad. 2) There is no difference between sterilizing an embryo you intend to implant and bring to life, and messing with any other essential part of its DNA. Like, if they altered the DNA in such a way that the clones' limbs were underdeveloped, or they were blind, or any other thing that affects their quality of life. These are embryos they intend to be implanted, carried, birthed. They intend them to become human beings. Damaging them in advance is morally wrong, period. No gray area in my opinion.

The KA Professional Series doesn't tip back. Instead, the bowl drops down and lifts up.

I just wish the writers on this show would mine the characters' relationships and history for actual drama instead of ALWAYS resorting to the plotline where characters spend all of their time messing with another character's life for very flimsy reasons. Anne, Teresa, Eve, JJ (ALL Jennifer/Dan-focused, which is obnoxious), Kristen, even Clyde and Kate--it's boring and the drama is inherently low, plus it makes me think less of all of those characters. I'd be so much more interested in Teresa and Eve if they weren't mired in this garbage.

Yeah, I actually think she looks great. For a few years, she looked a little scary to me (maybe a combo of thinness and having some work done that wasn't great), but these days I think she's very pretty. I mean, this is what she looked like 30 years ago. People change, and a lot of the differences in her face come down to weight loss and natural fat loss in the face that comes with aging.

I think Felicity's the only one with a chance, and that's because their intention for her this season is to fill out her character. And also because she was already Oliver's love interest last season, despite not getting together, and that didn't ruin her. I'm more concerned that damage will be done to the O/F relationship as it currently exists, but even for that I have faith in the writers. Maybe I'll be concerned when they actually allow them to be together. Like, one possibility: they reconcile on all this stuff at the season finale and have a big romantic moment, and then the writers insist on having five months pass over the hiatus. So when we see them again, they're all settled in and established in their relationship and all the life is sucked out of it. (See Bones and Booth, for one example.) Not that that would for sure happen, but I would have concerns about it. And then I could see them getting lazy about developing Felicity, but I still doubt it because she's effectively the female lead at this point, and I imagine the writers love writing for her because she's fun. Also, the dynamic they've created for her and Oliver allows for conflict between them, while still maintaining the relationship. I think once a character becomes a yes-man for the other, or when they exist only as a tool to goose the development of the other, that's when things get rough. And I just don't see that happening for Felicity. (I should also say that I don't actually think Sara was weakened or ruined by being with Oliver. I think ToD was bad for everyone except Diggle who kicked ass as always, so I almost don't want to hold it against any of them. :) The only thing I saw as being majorly OOC was her happiness to rejoin the LoA, and maybe even getting back together with Nyssa. That I saw as more in service of Laurel than of Oliver, so....)

Didn't mean to put those words in your mouth, I apologize. What I was referring to is your statement that Braeden was a marshall/mercenary and then that was dropped so that she could be Derek's LI. My take is that all we knew about her was that she was a mercenary--that's the only facet of her we had any info about. So I DO see it as development that we got to see other facets of her as well and that more time was spent on that. I don't see it as them dropping or disregarding or not developing the only part of her we'd seen before. I saw that developed too--she used that side of her to teach Derek how to protect himself, as others have stated. She used it to help the group several times through the season. She was still doing that work when she got nearly killed mid-season. I'd like to get more backstory on her and how she came to do all this stuff, but that's true of every character, basically. And I'm absolutely not going to argue w/r/t Lydia. She's been woefully underserved, for at least two seasons running now, and if I were HR, I'd wash my hands of the whole thing.

Yeah, that's the crux. I disagree that their character development was dropped, or that either one of them was so established in their previous characterization as to allow no room for change while also getting with a dude, so I bristle at it being treated as a fact. And again, when it comes to Lydia and Allison--they were developed while also acting as love interests over the course of three/four seasons. They had time, and an audience that allowed for it.

In terms of love stories, TW's writers' options are to pair all the existing characters up (which really means Lydia has to get with all the guys), or introduce new characters, or never have love stories. The third one isn't an option for Teen Wolf, and while I know we've all complained about their handling of romance, it's never going to stop being an element of the show. And all the actors seem pretty over it, to me, so the show needs to introduce new characters if it wants to last past the original cast departure. And the way you intro characters is via other characters as an entry point. So, the standards you're using here aren't equivalent. You're talking about Allison and Lydia, who started out as 2 of the 5 main characters in Season 1. (I personally don't consider Jackson one of the main characters, but more of a foil, but that probably would have changed if CH had stuck around). They've had 3-4 seasons of development, and when the show began, all the characters were new, so none of them needed another character as an "entry point." Yet, Allison and Lydia were both immediately love interests of the main guys too, because characters need connections to each other in order to create stakes. From my perspective, bringing an intriguing recurring guest character like Braeden back as a love interest for Derek is one of the best possible roads to take. I like her; I like that she was already involved in this world in her own way and doesn't need Derek to show her the ropes; I like that there is potential for further development. I also believe that her character was not ruined in any way, or thrown out the window or any of the other things I've seen people say. I think it was developed. I guess if you believed that she was a sociopathic mercenary, and were really attached to that version of her... That that one level we'd seen of her was all there was to her--that she was incapable of emotion or lust or interest in other people--then it would be really hard to see her open up to someone and care about them. I just find it odd that people seem to think we knew her so well pre-Derek, when we didn't know her at all. We're getting to know her now. I prefer this version of her, who has taken care of herself for so many years, without ties to others, who has found a person she can connect with. As far as Malia, I will continue to sing this at the top of my lungs: I had never seen Shelley Hennig in anything before this show. I had no attachment to her at all. And yet I love Malia, and I love SH now, and I find her character and her relationship with Stiles intriguing and rootable. And so do all the people I know IRL who watch the show. *shrug* Also, yeah, I don't see that Malia was solely a LI at all. Like Braeden, she had connections to this world beyond Stiles. Many of her scenes were with him, but many of their scenes together also involved the other characters. She's a Hale for a reason. And while I'm not so sure about Braeden, I am sure that JD has long-term plans for Malia, and she certainly won't be Stiles's love interest forever. Anyway, we disagree that they only existed to be LIs, but even if I did believe that, I don't see why it would be such a problem. It's one season. One. A season of setting things up, introducing and developing them, and also putting those characters in the position of making out with two lead characters. I guess everyone could just be celibate until their characters are firmly established and developed to actualization, but that's not how TV works.

I'm going to respond in the Relationships thread.

I've been catching up on the last few weeks of Extra Hot Great and on the week of eps with Alan Sepinwall as the guest, he proposed in one of the minis that Arrow might be better on a cable network because then it wouldn't have to be 22 episodes. And yeah, this string of eps certainly feels unnecessary and hurts the momentum of the larger narrative. I love this show, and I usually enjoy even the lesser eps, but yeah, I can see how a 15 ep season might have allowed them to cut some fat.

To me, he actually has a really limited palate, because he can't handle anything with any level of spice. Come on. That's like the basis of 50% of the world's cuisine, at least. I know he's aware of that and they give him a lot of crap for it, but still. It makes me side-eye all of his preferences. But otherwise, it doesn't bother me that he's snobby about preferring freshly made items to prepared foods because a) that's his whole job and the work of his life, so I would expect him to have some pride about that, b) once again, he's self-aware about the snobbishness and his colleagues tease him about it too, and c) I use prepared foods all the time, but I recognize that most of the time, stuff does taste better if I make it fresh. But the way they do those taste tests, at least with him, is sometimes really stupid. I feel like it only makes sense to taste things in the way they will be used. Like, you're never going to eat mayo or salad dressing or hot sauce on a spoon. (If you do, don't tell me.) Half the time, they do at least also present the item as it would be used, but not always. And I just don't get that. Oh, so that hummus is really strongly flavored until you eat it on pita or with vegetables, both of which are really bland??? You don't say.

Huh, I feel the opposite. I feel like the show thought Mary's rather non-apologetic attitude with John, and her being sort of unimpressed by but also understanding of Sherlock, was supposed to make her seem cool. It didn't work for me; I actually never liked her, pre- or post-reveal*, though I really really wanted to. But I'm resigned to her sticking around. And I mean, the alternative is that either she dies or the baby dies or both, and I don't want any of those things to happen. I highly doubt the show will just break them up amicably with shared visitation rights. Doesn't seem dramatic enough for Moffat and Gatiss. *(But I also hated the way they handled Sherlock's return w/r/t John's grief about it--like, it was just all a huge joke and John's feelings honestly just didn't matter. It was the same thing with Mary--it was more important to Moffat and Gatiss that Mary seem cool and badass than it was to acknowledge that Watson's feelings are legitimate and deserve any kind of respect. It made both Sherlock and Mary come across as less appealing to me as characters.)

I think your last line clinches it. Rachel, and all the other clones aside from Sarah and Helena were effectively sterilized for no reason except that the scientists didn't want to deal with the hassle. They intended the clone embryos to be born, to grow and live as individual people, so altering their DNA in that way is morally and ethically wrong no matter the abortion laws in the country. The point of legal abortion is to allow the woman carrying a child a choice, because that's what human beings are owed, and Project Leda removed something from these women that they had no right to remove. Just like all the other violations of their agency and privacy, this one was wrong, period.