Season 12: Good Riddance Lewin!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Request: because I'm too lazy, could a mod, please list the episodes? I'd do it, despite being lazy, but I'm at home right now, and every time I try to write more than 10 sentences, on my lappie top, I end up deleting! Thanks!

 

Okay, though I wasn't a fan of Weist as Nora Lewin, when she joined in Season 11, the whole 'oh golly gee I can't believe I'm the new DA!' behavior, plus that ridonkulous "introduction" by Giuliani, playing himself, which made me roll my eyes SO HARD, she was a tough DA for most of her first season. Then something happened and she turned into someone who kept bringing up ethics or acting like more of a professor and a defense attorney. And I loathed every time she came on screen in this season.

 

Now, I hate to bring up that other board, because, well it's gone but, I think it was Spartan Girl, who had posted that she'd seen "Dazzled" and wanted to kill the daughter herself for the reason why she killed her stepmother? Because I just saw it, and man! How old is she, 10? She saw that her parents clearly didn't love each other anymore, she totally disrespected her stepmother, by telling Green that Kate (the victim) wasn't her stepmother. Which, you spoiled twat, yes, she was, by virtue of being married to your father. And she thought that by killing Kate, her parents would get back together? I suspected her from the get go. Well, okay, maybe not the get go, but from the minute that Lennie and Green were searching her mother's apartment. And she cinched it with the her deer in the headlights look while testifying at the preliminary hearing. Why it took Jack so long to home in on her, I'll never understand. Rohmbot, well, 'nuff said.

 

I just wanted to snatch her bald.  And if the boy playing her younger brother was supposed to be 11, then I'm 21.[insert sarcasm here].  Because that kid looked like he was 8 or 9.

[radishcake]

Episode List for Season 12: 

 

S12 : Ep01 "Who Let the Dogs Out?"
S12 : Ep02 "Armed Forces"
S12 : Ep03 "For Love or Money"
S12 : Ep04 "Soldier of Fortune"
S12 : Ep05 "Possession"
S12 : Ep06 "Formerly Famous"
S12 : Ep07 "Myth of Fingerprints"
S12 : Ep08 "The Fire This Time"
S12 : Ep09 "3 Dawg Night"
S12 : Ep10 "Prejudice" 
S12 : Ep11 "The Collar"
S12 : Ep12 "Undercovered"
S12 : Ep13 "DR 1-102"
S12 : Ep14 "Missing"
S12 : Ep15 "Access Nation"
S12 : Ep16 "Born Again"
S12 : Ep17 "Girl Most Likely"
S12 : Ep18 "Equal Rights"
S12 : Ep19 "Slaughter"
S12 : Ep20 "Dazzled"
S12 : Ep21 "Foul Play"  
S12 : Ep22 "Attorney Client"
S12 : Ep23 "Oxymoron"
S12 : Ep24 "Patriot"

[mattie0808]

Don't know where else to put this, but "Access Nation" is on WE right now. I never liked Serena, and had my issues with the actress from when she was on One Life to Live. But I have to give her credit, this episode has what I think is easily her finest moment.

 

A woman was stalked and killed after her murderer was given her private info by a sort of internet-based private detective search firm service -- this is 2002. (Shouts to Marian from All My Children as the victim's mother!) Our DAs are trying to decide whether to criminally charge the web company. Serena, who's wanted to charge them the whole time, avails herself of their services to look up Jack and Nora. She reads Jack's file, to his and Nora's complete, utter horror. "You've got what I can only describe as a very weird obsession with The Clash." Fantastic. She straight owned them. My favorite bit of hers.

Edited December 31, 2014 by mattie0808

[Spartan Girl]

 

Now, I hate to bring up that other board, because, well it's gone but, I think it was Spartan Girl, who had posted that she'd seen "Dazzled" and wanted to kill the daughter herself for the reason why she killed her stepmother? Because I just saw it, and man! How old is she, 10? She saw that her parents clearly didn't love each other anymore, she totally disrespected her stepmother, by telling Green that Kate (the victim) wasn't her stepmother. Which, you spoiled twat, yes, she was, by virtue of being married to your father. And she thought that by killing Kate, her parents would get back together? I suspected her from the get go.

I don't condone what she did, but honestly, those horrible parents were just as responsible for driving her off the deep end.  They took every opportunity to throw verbal bombs at each other, not caring if their children saw or over heard.  And it really pissed me off how when the girl confessed, they started doing the concerned parent act with the "don't throw your life away" spiel.  Too little, too late, assholes.

[WendyCR72]

I never liked Serena

 

I'm hard pressed to find folks who did. And I know I said this before, but it bears repeating: It sucks that Serena got to leave still breathing while both Claire and Alexandra ended up dead. Life in L&O land really is unfair.

[Frisson]

I want to know why Claire and Abbie (off the top of my head) had very clear introductions with Jack, but Serena just kind of showed up like she'd been down the hall forever. It was very jarring with her and Branch showing up to change things up at the same time.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I checked both Wikipedia and the L & O Wiki entry, but there's no mention of why Serena just materialized. Maybe the wormhole that claimed Abbie, who was supposedly "right across the street" when she left the DA's office, spat Serena out in her place. Apparently, though, she and Connie are tied for number of episodes on the show with eighty-five appearances.

[beadgirl]

Normally I avoid the Serena episodes, but I caught the last few minutes of Equal Rights (the brother-in-law of an abused woman kills her husband) which was a mistake. I wanted smack Serena (hah) when she started spouting off about how if a guy hit her, she'd hit him back, she'd never accept abuse in a relationship, and saying that women might have a hard time leaving an abuser is infantilizing them. Way back in my lawyerly days I volunteered with domestic violence victims, and: fuck you, Serena. Is she seriously ignorant of the psychological abuse, manipulation, and isolation abusers can inflict on their spouses that makes it so much harder for them to leave? Is she unaware that the most dangerous time for an abused spouse is when she is leaving/has left? Gah, she is TERRIBLE.

Edited June 20, 2018 by beadgirl

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, beadgirl said:

Normally I avoid the Serena episodes, but I caught the last few minutes of Equal Rights (the brother-in-law of an abused woman kills her husband) which was a mistake. I wanted smack Serena (hah) when she started spouting off about how if a guy hit her, she'd hit him back, she'd never accept abuse in a relationship, and saying that women might have a hard time leaving an abuser is infantilizing them. Way back in my lawyerly days I volunteered with domestic violence victims, and: fuck you, Serena. Has seriously ignorant of the psychological abuse, manipulation, and isolation abusers can inflict on their spouses that makes it so much harder for them to leave? Is she unaware that the most dangerous time for an abused spouse is when she is leaving/has left? Gah, she is TERRIBLE.

Yeah, but back in 2002 when it was written, I'm guessing the writers thought it was better/more PC to have those words come out of a woman's mouth than a man's. Like, imagine a male character saying that the abused wife should've left or taken martial arts classes so she could fight back.

The opening scene telegraphs that they were exploring opinions on gender:

Quote

2 women talking: There we were, all the women in the kitchen cleaning up, and all the guys watching the game.
I always thought it'd be different when we had families.
I don't think it even occurs to them.
Ha.
It occurs to Dave.
He just doesn't care.
What pisses me off about it is if I bring it up, I'm a nag.
I don't know.
Maybe it's our own fault.
We're the ones that let it happen.
No, I think men just do a good job of convincing us that it's our fault.
I mean, men can be such a pain in the ass.
Oh.
my God! Celia! I take back everything I just said.

 

Detectives: Two commuters off the 7:00 a.m. ferry, they're the ones who found him.
Oh, that's a nice way to start the day.
Guy was shot twice.
Once in the stomach, once In the chest.

[Xeliou66]

Nora pissed me off even more than Serena in Equal Rights, why the fuck didn’t she use her authority and order McCoy to make a deal, even if it was more lenient than McCoy wanted. Taking that case to trial was stupid, a total waste of time on a case they didn’t have much of a chance to win. So many season 12 episodes had weak second halves after great first halves with Briscoe and Green, and Equal Rights is the best example of that. Nora+Serena was difficult to stomach in the second half, both were extremely soft for DA’s. Season 12 is actually one of my least favorite seasons as a result of Nora+Serena in the second half, and also some of the stories just seemed rather bland IMO, at least compared to other seasons. 

[Spartan Girl]

I can't even watch "Undercovered", that one pissed me off from beginning to end. Yeah I felt sorry for the perp's daughter and insurance companies suck, but HE STILL BASHED A GUY'S BRAINS OUT. The hung jury was bad enough, but the fact he was going to guy back to his wife and child like it never happened...I mean, couldn't the wife had been more horrified about what he did? And who in the right mind would let a man capable of that kind of violence still live with that child?!

Dont get me started on the twin bleeding hearts of Serena and Nora.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Spartan Girl

[MarylandGirl]

13 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I can't even watch "Undercovered", that one pissed me off from beginning to end. Yeah I felt sorry for the perp's daughter and insurance companies suck, but HE STILL BASHED A GUY'S BRAINS OUT. The hung jury was bad enough, but the fact he was going to guy back to his wife and child like it never happened...I mean, couldn't the wife had been more horrified about what he did? And who in the right mind would let a man capable of that kind of violence still live with that child?!

Dont get me started on the twin bleeding hearts of Serena and Nora.

And what sort of precedent does that set for future times that insurance has denied a claim--just go beat up the employee who denied it, and you can get the coverage you want! I feel a better ending would have been the guy going to jail (maybe on reduced charge of manslaughter or something like that), and saying he was sorry for what he'd done, but his child's life was worth it to him. But at least justice still would have been served on the guy he killed.

Speaking of Serena and Nora, just watched DR 1-102, forgetting how most of it ended up being about them. With a better actress than Rohm, that could have been a really good episode, but I just wasn't buying it from her. Like "Oh no, my life might be in danger. Oh no, now I might get disbarred. Oh dear, this is awkward that my boss is testifying against me."

[Ailianna]

4 hours ago, MarylandGirl said:

And what sort of precedent does that set for future times that insurance has denied a claim--just go beat up the employee who denied it, and you can get the coverage you want! I feel a better ending would have been the guy going to jail (maybe on reduced charge of manslaughter or something like that), and saying he was sorry for what he'd done, but his child's life was worth it to him. But at least justice still would have been served on the guy he killed.

John Q had Denzel, but even without him it would have been a much better examination of this issue and this question.  But they came out around the same time, if I remember correctly, and it felt like this was "Ripped from the Hollywood Headlines."

[GHScorpiosRule]

This should probably go in the season 11 thread, when Nora first joined, but I'm putting it here-If it should be moved to 11, let me know @radishcake and I'll edit it.

So, even before he turned into Nosferatu, I HATED how Nora sucked up to Giuliani when he played himself after Nora took over for Adam. She was practically squeeing like a fangirl, her smile was so...she looked so...mesmerized. BLECH.

[WendyCR72]

To be fair, Giuliani was once respected, once upon a time... Amazing how the tide turns. Still, I'll agree that Nora and Serena together was like bland overload. Thank God at least Lewin left. I realize Arthur Branch seemed annoying, but he had a bit more gravitas to him.

[wknt3]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

To be fair, Giuliani was once respected, once upon a time... Amazing how the tide turns. Still, I'll agree that Nora and Serena together was like bland overload. Thank God at least Lewin left. I realize Arthur Branch seemed annoying, but he had a bit more gravitas to him.

Gravitas? I'm not sure that's really true. Lewin had a certain amount of gravitas with her professorial air and was shown to be respected in legal circles. And Fred Thompson never seemed to have much gravitas, especially given that he was actually a US Senator. I think the word you're looking for is "personality"!

[WendyCR72]

5 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Gravitas? I'm not sure that's really true. Lewin had a certain amount of gravitas with her professorial air and was shown to be respected in legal circles. And Fred Thompson never seemed to have much gravitas, especially given that he was actually a US Senator. I think the word you're looking for is "personality"!

Well, personality is another way to look at it!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Branch/Thompson will always be Foghorn Leghorn for me.

[Xeliou66]

Undercovered pisses me off as well, Nora especially, she was basically arguing that the guy should get a free pass for bashing someone’s head in because of the situation with his kid. She was a joke of a DA, and her and Serena were beyond irritating, both bleeding heart softies, made season 12’s legal stuff difficult to get through at times. 

Like I’ve said before, I loathed most of Branch’s politics, but he had a lot of charisma and personality, and he wasn’t afraid to be decisive or bring down the hammer on people, he brought a spark back to the DA’s scenes that had been missing during the Nora years. He wasn’t as awesome as Schiff, but he had personality and would throw out some funny lines and colorful stories. 

[WendyCR72]

20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Branch/Thompson will always be Foghorn Leghorn for me.

Well, Adam Schiff will always be #1 to me, but if we couldn't have him, I personally would choose Branch over Lewin without a moment's hesitation. Dianne Wiest is a fine actress, but I never thought she was a good fit on this show.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, Adam Schiff will always be #1 to me, but if we couldn't have him, I personally would choose Branch over Lewin without a moment's hesitation. Dianne Wiest is a fine actress, but I never thought she was a good fit on this show.

Adam will always be #1 to me too. After him I'll take Branch over Nora any day. I don't like his politics either but he at least acted like he knew what his job was. Nora and Serena I really found it hard to believe they even managed as lawyers. Did they both spend every day locked up in the law libraries every day of their life before ending up at the DA's office?  Does Nora ever look at the crime scene photos? Has she ever had to talk to a victims family? Has Serena? Your prosecuting people for horrible crimes. Where's the compassion for the victim? Their families? A man bashes in another person's head. But that's okay because its insurance?  And the man had a kid? Ah murderers often have kids too. Serial killers have been married. Her sympathy for a teen who murdered four people might not be bad if she wasn't shocked that they now had to prosecute him for four counts of murder. Serena in the her last episode remarks that everyone she talked to said defendant was a good kid. Except that generally is what happens. That's why neighbors and family of people arrested for horrible crimes are always shocked because they were a great son/brother/father. Yes, they can be that and also still be a murder.  Serena thinks she'd smack back at a man who hits her? So she's never prosecuted abusive men before? Because if she had she would have heard similar stories. It never starts with a beating or a hit. It starts with slowly isolating, undermining herself worth, esteem, and everything else so when the first hit comes. She'll be surprised but less likely to tell anyone and more likely to believe his apologizes and swearing never to  do it again.  Its like neither women live in the real world despite working a job that would have them around the ugliest of the world. Its easy to spout idolizes and ideas when your not dealing with women who have been abused or looking at a woman who's abusive husband or boyfriend finally killed her or he killed her mother or father or beat up someone else trying to find her.  

Edited June 23, 2018 by andromeda331

[GHScorpiosRule]

So watched "Famously Famous" earlier today (Hey, I'm recording on all networks and this was on BBCA) and I'm surprised at the goof that the writers had Jack make.

Turns out Vega* (Gary Busey), wasn't the biological father of the baby he wanted custody of. But the baby was born when he was married to the mother, so LEGALLY, that baby, Sarah, was his, no matter that his wife was threatening to reveal he wasn't. 

Jack threw out that line how it would be proven Vega wasn't the father. Wrong! A child born into wedlock, whether or not they are the biological child of the man, is LEGALLY their child.

But then we wouldn't have gotten the drama of Vega jumping out of his seat the grand jury.

*This was totally the case ripped from the headlines based on Robert Blake. And I won't lie that it shocked me and saddened me because I loved Barretta when I was wee and watched it.

[Ailianna]

Some people wouldn't care about legal fatherhood if they don't have biological fatherhood. It also proves his wife carried another man's baby, which some men find humiliating. Still a decent threat.

[Xeliou66]

I watched The Collar tonight, this is a really good episode, I liked the investigation and legal stuff and how Jack handled the situation with Father Evans, I think Father Evans did the right thing by testifying and he was within his legal right to do so because of the nature of the conversation, as they explained in the episode, but he clearly felt guilty about it, and Jack had mixed feelings at the end you could tell, while justice had been served and an innocent man freed, Father Evans was compromised as a priest. I liked how Jack, while not being religious himself, still respected the sanctity of priest/penitent privilege and felt for Father Evans, who was in a very tough spot.

Even Nora got a good moment in this episode when she stood up to the church lawyer and threw him out of her office after he started in about how the voters would feel about Nora’s actions.

Next up was Undercovered, and Nora was extremely irritating in this episode, she was so soft in talking about the defendant who killed the guy who voted to deny a certain medical treatment to the killer’s daughter. The victim had done nothing to deserve to die, he was just doing his job, there was no excuse for the killer kidnapping him and bashing his skull in, and I was sick of Nora making excuses for him. The jury deadlocking was an unhappy ending, and I was appalled that the killer’s wife was apparently going to let him come home and live with her and their daughter, he bashed a guy’s skull in for god’s sake. There was nothing that justified this murder, and I wanted Nora to shove it. 

[Spartan Girl]

And in this edition of “Nora is a useless twit” I watched “The Fire This Time” about the environmentalist terrorists that burned down a building and killed the woman inside as a result. And Nora, of course, that their intent was “protest” and therefore not criminal.

Like that makes it any better?!?! Someone DIED. BURNED ALIVE.

”We didn’t mean for anyone to get hurt, we didn’t know anyone was in there…” DON’T CARE. You started the fire, ergo it’s your fault. What you “meant” to happen doesn’t mean a lick of spit.

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

And in this edition of “Nora is a useless twit” I watched “The Fire This Time” about the environmentalist terrorists that burned down a building and killed the woman inside as a result. And Nora, of course, that their intent was “protest” and therefore not criminal.

Like that makes it any better?!?! Someone DIED. BURNED ALIVE.

”We didn’t mean for anyone to get hurt, we didn’t know anyone was in there…” DON’T CARE. You started the fire, ergo it’s your fault. What you “meant” to happen doesn’t mean a lick of spit.

What’s worse is that Nora believes only those 25 and older can commit crimes and should pay the price. She was bloviating about the arsonists as “naive children” who deserve understanding. 
 

No wonder why that crooked and murdering State senator lobbied for Nora to be appointed as interim DA to Giuliani. Benton knew Nora was worthless and weak. Probably thought she could be used as her puppet if she hadn’t been exposed.

[Xeliou66]

Nora drove me nuts in some episodes, she was so damn soft for a DA and lacked authority - The Fire This Time is a great example of that, she was for some reason very sympathetic to the radical activists who burned down the building, killing a woman, just because they were young. Those people deserved no sympathy, they knew they could harm someone by burning down the building and they were guilty of murder. Also in Undercovered, when Nora was extremely sympathetic to the father who murdered the insurance executive who denied a certain treatment for his daughter, Nora seemed to be very sympathetic to him and seemed to want Jack to go soft. She was just not a good DA, she seemed to have no authority and was just dull and weak.

[Arcadiasw]

Saw "Slaughter" this morning. Is Ed a vegan or maybe vegetarian? When Ed asked Lennie if he got him a sandwich, Lennie said they didn't have anything with tofu and Ed didn't want half of Lennie's sandwich. 

[Morrigan2575]

29 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

Saw "Slaughter" this morning. Is Ed a vegan or maybe vegetarian? When Ed asked Lennie if he got him a sandwich, Lennie said they didn't have anything with tofu and Ed didn't want half of Lennie's sandwich. 

If I remember correctly, he is a vegetarian. 

[Prairie Rose]

I have rather fond memories of S12, because it was the year I began watching regularly. I was still in college then.

Am I the only one who wondered why Dianne Wiest even accepted the L&O job? She had such a prolific and acclaimed career on both stage and screen, but Nora was such a dull, one-dimensional role. A broomstick with a wig could have played the part. I'm surprised she even stuck it out for two seasons.

[Spartan Girl]

Watched “Missing” and the asshole chairman dug his own grave. When you’re under investigation for your mistresses’s murder and you won’t even cop up to having an affair even though it’s pretty obvious to everyone, including your own family, it makes you look even worse if you keep lying. And nobody is going to believe you even when you’re actually telling the truth.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

22 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Watched “Missing” and the asshole chairman dug his own grave. When you’re under investigation for your mistresses’s murder and you won’t even cop up to having an affair even though it’s pretty obvious to everyone, including your own family, it makes you look even worse if you keep lying. And nobody is going to believe you even when you’re actually telling the truth.

Yep, I just watched that episode as well, Ted Weldon was a douche, I didn’t really feel sorry for him, he was a sleaze who lied constantly, he made it easy for the jury to convict him with his lies. The hitman was rather dumb though not to realize that Weldon wasn’t the one who arranged the murder, although that dude seemed like a massive moron. The wife was very manipulative, she set them all up - I wonder if Weldon’s appeal would be successful based on the evidence against his wife, and I wonder if their children ever realized the mom was a cold blooded murderous bitch. 

[andromeda331]

Van Buren has a crappy friend in the Myth of Fingerprints. Russo has the nerve to blame Van Buren and other cops because they came to he hoping she'd match DNA to the suspect they have. Sure they were were hoping, but she was the one who decided if they did or not. The cops assumed the results they got were from Russo doing her job and not from her making stuff up. She got a man killed and who knows how many innocent men and women convicted.

I do like in Formerly Famous that Tommy didn't care whether Sarah was his biological daughter or not. He still loved her and wanted to raise her. It's not really something you see to often. I feel bad for both that her terrible mother was going to rip her away from a parent who actually loved and cared about her. The horrible thing is that Beth-Ann would have be able to do it. The courts would never give him custody because he wasn't her biological father. That really stinks. 

[Spartan Girl]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Van Buren has a crappy friend in the Myth of Fingerprints. Russo has the nerve to blame Van Buren and other cops because they came to he hoping she'd match DNA to the suspect they have. Sure they were were hoping, but she was the one who decided if they did or not. The cops assumed the results they got were from Russo doing her job and not from her making stuff up. She got a man killed and who knows how many innocent men and women convicted.

Yeah that lady needed to STFU. All the other medical examiners on the show did their job right, even if they didn’t always match with what the police suspected.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah that lady needed to STFU. All the other medical examiners on the show did their job right, even if they didn’t always match with what the police suspected.

Oh yes Russo was awful, she had a lot of nerve to blame Van Buren and others for her own corruption, it was her and her alone who decided to tamper with evidence, no one asked her to. She was just a nasty witch who didn’t care about the innocent people she had sent to prison. She deserved to rot. 

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah that lady needed to STFU. All the other medical examiners on the show did their job right, even if they didn’t always match with what the police suspected.

That's right the others did. When they couldn't get a match Russo took over and found it.

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Oh yes Russo was awful, she had a lot of nerve to blame Van Buren and others for her own corruption, it was her and her alone who decided to tamper with evidence, no one asked her to. She was just a nasty witch who didn’t care about the innocent people she had sent to prison. She deserved to rot. 

She really was. She let innocent people go to jail and one killed and not once did she show any remorse for being wrong. But no it's the cops fault. The only bright spot is she'd going to end up in jail with some of the very people she put there. I'm sure they couldn't wait to meet her.  

[Xeliou66]

Just watched two good season 12 episodes today - Prejudice and The Collar

Prejudice is a good case, I loved Jack’s passion when going up against the defense claiming that racism was a mental disorder, that was bullshit, this killer wasn’t crazy, he was just filled with hate and rage and understood completely what he was doing. As Skoda said, he was a scary dude but he was sane. Jack did a really good job prosecuting this case, and I liked how he referenced the case from Rage in season 5 where a black defendant used a similar insanity defense. Nora just stood on the sidelines and did nothing, pretty typical for her. The detective work was good as well, Briscoe and Green are my favorite pairing and I liked how they tracked down leads and figured out the whole murder was over road rage about a taxi.

The Collar is really good as well, good detective work, I liked how they figured out that the priest wasn’t the intended victim and tracked down the gun and who had it and then figured out the motive. It was interesting how they had to get to the bottom of what the suspect told the priest he intended to kill in order to free the innocent man from jail. I liked seeing Nora stand up to the church lawyer, it was one of Nora’s better moments.

[andromeda331]

Missing is a good episode. I like the twist at the end when it turns out the wife did it to frame her husband. Damn lady. I like that it wasn't obvious that it was her. Her husband had already told so many lies and crappy husband it really wasn't hard to believe that he stole money from his son's account.

I love Jack getting back at McDowell in Access Nation by using another company to get information on him. He didn't like it so much then did he? His lawyer was an asshole for advising his client to stop doing background checks on their client but it's also illegal. So he's going to jail too. The poor victim Tracy gets robbed by her "little" sister and murdered by her stalker all in one night.

[andromeda331]

On 2/3/2023 at 4:56 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Just watched two good season 12 episodes today - Prejudice and The Collar

Prejudice is a good case, I loved Jack’s passion when going up against the defense claiming that racism was a mental disorder, that was bullshit, this killer wasn’t crazy, he was just filled with hate and rage and understood completely what he was doing. As Skoda said, he was a scary dude but he was sane. Jack did a really good job prosecuting this case, and I liked how he referenced the case from Rage in season 5 where a black defendant used a similar insanity defense. Nora just stood on the sidelines and did nothing, pretty typical for her. The detective work was good as well, Briscoe and Green are my favorite pairing and I liked how they tracked down leads and figured out the whole murder was over road rage about a taxi.

So do I. The killer wasn't crazy he was just a hateful racist. I like Skoda agreeing too. He literally hunted the man down to kill him over a taxi. I'm glad the jury rejected that defense. It was crap. 
 

Quote

 

The Collar is really good as well, good detective work, I liked how they figured out that the priest wasn’t the intended victim and tracked down the gun and who had it and then figured out the motive. It was interesting how they had to get to the bottom of what the suspect told the priest he intended to kill in order to free the innocent man from jail. I liked seeing Nora stand up to the church lawyer, it was one of Nora’s better moments.

 

I liked seeing her stand up to the church lawyer too. I'm glad the priest finally decided to tell what he knew. I understand why priests aren't suppose to break the seal of confession. But in this case he knew something that could free an innocent man. I wish the church had exceptions in cases like that even though I get why that would be hard to do. The right thing to do would be to come forward tell what he knew. The detective work in both cases were really good. 

 

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

So do I. The killer wasn't crazy he was just a hateful racist. I like Skoda agreeing too. He literally hunted the man down to kill him over a taxi. I'm glad the jury rejected that defense. It was crap. 
 

I liked seeing her stand up to the church lawyer too. I'm glad the priest finally decided to tell what he knew. I understand why priests aren't suppose to break the seal of confession. But in this case he knew something that could free an innocent man. I wish the church had exceptions in cases like that even though I get why that would be hard to do. The right thing to do would be to come forward tell what he knew. The detective work in both cases were really good. 

 

Yes the perp in Prejudice was just a hateful monster who deserved to rot - he was not insane, I didn’t buy the racism as insanity claim, and I liked how it was pointed out there was no way of treating racism like there are for treating forms of insanity. The perp was a hatemonger who was angry about losing his job because of his confrontation with the black coworker and decided to shoot a guy over a taxi, and he followed the guy for like 30 minutes before shooting him, because he didn’t want witnesses, he knew what he doing and just didn’t care.

I liked the legal stuff in The Collar where they argued about whether the priest should be forced to testify about what he knew or not, it was a tough situation all around. It was one of Nora’s better episodes as the DA, I liked seeing her stand up to that church lawyer, usually Nora didn’t really exercise her authority but she had a few good moments. I really liked how Briscoe and Green tracked down the weapon and who had it and the scene where the guy who stole the gun from his boss to give to the perp was worried about losing his job and his boss said “you already did”. 

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Missing is a good episode. I like the twist at the end when it turns out the wife did it to frame her husband. Damn lady. I like that it wasn't obvious that it was her. Her husband had already told so many lies and crappy husband it really wasn't hard to believe that he stole money from his son's account.

I love Jack getting back at McDowell in Access Nation by using another company to get information on him. He didn't like it so much then did he? His lawyer was an asshole for advising his client to stop doing background checks on their client but it's also illegal. So he's going to jail too. The poor victim Tracy gets robbed by her "little" sister and murdered by her stalker all in one night.

Missing is a good episode, I agree that it was a good twist that it was the wife who sent the money to kill the victim. But I didn’t really feel sorry for Ted Weldon, he lied nonstop and made it very easy for the jury to convict him with his constant lies. I wonder if the children ever figured out that their mom was a murderous witch, or if Weldon ever accused her in the future when appealing his conviction - that’s one of the episodes where I wondered what would happen after the episode ended.

Access Nation is pretty good as well - I felt very sorry for the victim, who seemed like a very good person who wanted to help people, the piece of crap who killed her because he felt betrayed by her should’ve gotten a lot more time, it was understandable the parents were angry about the sentence. 

[Mellowyellow]

I've just finished this season and moved onto 13. Maybe I've mellowed with age but I don't even mind Serena anymore. And I actually really liked Nora. I think she was an excellent contrast to Arthur! It made the introduction of Arthur even more enjoyable for me.

I feel like S12 Serena was much less robotic than Serena in her final season. I do still think that Serena had her very own definitive personality, whether I like it or not, which is why I still love this show after all these years.

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I've just finished this season and moved onto 13. Maybe I've mellowed with age but I don't even mind Serena anymore. And I actually really liked Nora. I think she was an excellent contrast to Arthur! It made the introduction of Arthur even more enjoyable for me.

I feel like S12 Serena was much less robotic than Serena in her final season. I do still think that Serena had her very own definitive personality, whether I like it or not, which is why I still love this show after all these years.

Interesting. Having both Serena and Nora at the same time made the legal side a bit weaker in season 12 for me, Nora just seemed to lack authority much of the time and just didn’t have the charisma necessary for a DA IMO - I don’t really dislike Nora and I do think Nora had some good moments, but she was just bland compared to Adam, Arthur and Jack. Serena was wooden and too soft for an ADA IMO, and Serena really got on my nerves a few times, but I think she might’ve been better in season 12 when working under Nora, she didn’t like Arthur and never really seemed to give Arthur a chance and it made her come off as whiny. Serena was okay in season 12 for the most part, her worst moments came later on - notably the season 13 finale when she felt sorry for those human trash parents who sold their kid to the pedo comedian, acting like it was some tragedy that now their kid who was sick would be without them. 

[Mellowyellow]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Interesting. Having both Serena and Nora at the same time made the legal side a bit weaker in season 12 for me, Nora just seemed to lack authority much of the time and just didn’t have the charisma necessary for a DA IMO - I don’t really dislike Nora and I do think Nora had some good moments, but she was just bland compared to Adam, Arthur and Jack. Serena was wooden and too soft for an ADA IMO, and Serena really got on my nerves a few times, but I think she might’ve been better in season 12 when working under Nora, she didn’t like Arthur and never really seemed to give Arthur a chance and it made her come off as whiny. Serena was okay in season 12 for the most part, her worst moments came later on - notably the season 13 finale when she felt sorry for those human trash parents who sold their kid to the pedo comedian, acting like it was some tragedy that now their kid who was sick would be without them. 

I genuinely enjoyed all the waffley ethics debates under Nora. I loved those scenes where she'd be super mellow and throw out a few sentences at Jack about her position on a certain case. I found her mothering and comforting. I realized that I'd missed s12 so it was a shock to see how different Serena was (I feel she's very different) to what I remember her as.

One thing is for sure though, I really do love this show. I can comfortably say that The Mothership and Big Bang Theory are my two favorite shows of all time.

Trying to get my hands on S7 because I think Jamie was very gifted at law and loved her in S8. I think that's all I'm missing.

 

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes the perp in Prejudice was just a hateful monster who deserved to rot - he was not insane, I didn’t buy the racism as insanity claim, and I liked how it was pointed out there was no way of treating racism like there are for treating forms of insanity. The perp was a hatemonger who was angry about losing his job because of his confrontation with the black coworker and decided to shoot a guy over a taxi, and he followed the guy for like 30 minutes before shooting him, because he didn’t want witnesses, he knew what he doing and just didn’t care.

I agree the only surprising thing was it took him that long to kill someone. Maybe he did in the past but was never caught. Either way he had enough time to calm down but didn't care. He wanted to kill that man and nothing was going to stop him. 

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I liked the legal stuff in The Collar where they argued about whether the priest should be forced to testify about what he knew or not, it was a tough situation all around. It was one of Nora’s better episodes as the DA, I liked seeing her stand up to that church lawyer, usually Nora didn’t really exercise her authority but she had a few good moments. I really liked how Briscoe and Green tracked down the weapon and who had it and the scene where the guy who stole the gun from his boss to give to the perp was worried about losing his job and his boss said “you already did”. 

Yeah, dude, you already lost your job. It was great to see Nora stand up to the church lawyer. The whole episode was really good.

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Missing is a good episode, I agree that it was a good twist that it was the wife who sent the money to kill the victim. But I didn’t really feel sorry for Ted Weldon, he lied nonstop and made it very easy for the jury to convict him with his constant lies. I wonder if the children ever figured out that their mom was a murderous witch, or if Weldon ever accused her in the future when appealing his conviction - that’s one of the episodes where I wondered what would happen after the episode ended.

I didn't feel bad for him either. Just more surprised at his wife at how she pulled off the murder and framing him so well. But that's what happens Ted when your that much of a liar that everyone assumes you would take money from your kid's account. I would love to see his reaction when he realized his wife set him up. She's right about the appeals. Most are turned down. I'm sure McCoy would try to help him. It would have been interesting to see.

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Access Nation is pretty good as well - I felt very sorry for the victim, who seemed like a very good person who wanted to help people, the piece of crap who killed her because he felt betrayed by her should’ve gotten a lot more time, it was understandable the parents were angry about the sentence. 

He definitely should have gotten more. He stalked her for months before finally killing her.

26 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I genuinely enjoyed all the waffley ethics debates under Nora. I loved those scenes where she'd be super mellow and throw out a few sentences at Jack about her position on a certain case. I found her mothering and comforting. I realized that I'd missed s12 so it was a shock to see how different Serena was (I feel she's very different) to what I remember her as.

One thing is for sure though, I really do love this show. I can comfortably say that The Mothership and Big Bang Theory are my two favorite shows of all time.

Trying to get my hands on S7 because I think Jamie was very gifted at law and loved her in S8. I think that's all I'm missing.

 

Jamie is really great. She's one of my favorites on the show.

[Spartan Girl]

As a dog lover, “Who Let The Dogs Out” was horrible to watch. For once, I agreed with Serena at the end: it wasn’t fair that the humans got relatively light sentences while the dog got put to death. Mind you, it was the kindest possible outcome for the dog, who was a danger to others and beyond salvaging, but still.

Don't even get me started on that BITCH owner. “We don’t deserve to go to jail!” Well, that poor teacher and her little dog didn’t deserve to get mauled to death while you didn’t even have the decency to call 911, so shut the fuck up, you whiny twat of a Karen! I hope the victim’s fiancé sued them for everything they were worth.

[DXD526]

Caught the last few minutes of "Who Let the Dogs Out" yesterday. It's always so strange to see Melissa Leo playing such a scumbag, right after several years of being a detective on Homicide. 

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Don't even get me started on that BITCH owner. “We don’t deserve to go to jail!”

I also liked the line from their lawyer, when talking with Schiff, and saying something like, "My clients aren't interested in jail time." They're not "interested"! Adam was unamused...

[Xeliou66]

24 minutes ago, DXD526 said:

Caught the last few minutes of "Who Let the Dogs Out" yesterday. It's always so strange to see Melissa Leo playing such a scumbag, right after several years of being a detective on Homicide. 

I also liked the line from their lawyer, when talking with Schiff, and saying something like, "My clients aren't interested in jail time." They're not "interested"! Adam was unamused...

Adam Schiff wasn’t the DA in Who Let The Dogs Out, Nora Lewin was. I guess you meant to see Jack McCoy but said Adam instead.

[andromeda331]

I can't watch that episode because they put down the poor dog. I can't animals being hurt or put down even fictional ones.

[Xeliou66]

Watching season 12 on Sundance today -

The Collar is one of my favorites from season 12, really good case - I liked the twist that the priest who was the intended victim took the murderer’s confession and the killer was trying to kill him to cover it up. It was an interesting dilemma because the privilege/privacy between a religious advisor and a person is important and part of the freedom of religion, but an innocent person was in prison, and based on the facts of this case, it was the right decision to force the priest to testify, but it was a tough situation, I liked Jack’s conversation with his priest friend. 
Nora was good in this episode standing up to the church lawyer, Nora had a few good episodes where she was used well but too often she came off as weak and on the sidelines instead of using her authority. 
Briscoe/Green were great as always - I liked their investigation and I loved Green yelling “get your ass back here stupid!” at the killer when he ran. It’s a great episode.

Watching DR1-102 now, this is an unusual episode with the second half being mainly about Serena’s license being in jeopardy. Serena did misrepresent herself but she didn’t do so to try to get a confession out of the perp, she did so to try to diffuse the hostage situation, so what she did was right and the committee was right not to disbar her. It wasn’t really pointed out that Serena probably saved the guy’s life by going in and talking to him instead of letting the snipers take him out. The perp was creepy and pathetic, he kills two women, holds a knife to another woman’s throat, and then he whines “don’t let them hurt me” when the SWAT team busts in and apprehends him. He should’ve gotten two consecutive life sentences, not 15 to life, but they didn’t have solid evidence against him. I think it might’ve been better if Serena hadn’t gone in and had just let SWAT take out the piece of garbage, Serena nearly got in big trouble for saving the guy’s life. It was interesting how they called Nora to testify at the hearing - more could’ve been done with Nora’s character, she had some good moments but I wish they had used her better and given her a little more personality.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Watching season 12 on Sundance today -

The Collar is one of my favorites from season 12, really good case - I liked the twist that the priest who was the intended victim took the murderer’s confession and the killer was trying to kill him to cover it up. It was an interesting dilemma because the privilege/privacy between a religious advisor and a person is important and part of the freedom of religion, but an innocent person was in prison, and based on the facts of this case, it was the right decision to force the priest to testify, but it was a tough situation, I liked Jack’s conversation with his priest friend. 
Nora was good in this episode standing up to the church lawyer, Nora had a few good episodes where she was used well but too often she came off as weak and on the sidelines instead of using her authority. 
Briscoe/Green were great as always - I liked their investigation and I loved Green yelling “get your ass back here stupid!” at the killer when he ran. It’s a great episode.

Yeah it was a really good episode. I like the twist too of the murderer killing the wrong priest. The discussion about whether Father Evans should break the seal of the confession or not. I can see why the church had an issue with it. People need to feel that they can come to confession and their confessions won't be used against them  or reveal to others. That is the point of confession and their role. But I do wish there were exceptions although there's probably no way to make that happen. But knowing that murderer confesses to you and he/she will either get away with it or if someone else is arrest for the crime. They should be able to do something instead of letting an innocent person go to jail. I just can't imagine knowing something like that and doing nothing. Like in this case. I am really glad Father Evans broke his confession. It was the right thing to do but I feel bad that he has to leave the church. I like that Nora stood up to the church too. Lennie and Green were great as always that was a good line from Green.
 

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Watching DR1-102 now, this is an unusual episode with the second half being mainly about Serena’s license being in jeopardy. Serena did misrepresent herself but she didn’t do so to try to get a confession out of the perp, she did so to try to diffuse the hostage situation, so what she did was right and the committee was right not to disbar her. It wasn’t really pointed out that Serena probably saved the guy’s life by going in and talking to him instead of letting the snipers take him out. The perp was creepy and pathetic, he kills two women, holds a knife to another woman’s throat, and then he whines “don’t let them hurt me” when the SWAT team busts in and apprehends him. He should’ve gotten two consecutive life sentences, not 15 to life, but they didn’t have solid evidence against him. I think it might’ve been better if Serena hadn’t gone in and had just let SWAT take out the piece of garbage, Serena nearly got in big trouble for saving the guy’s life. It was interesting how they called Nora to testify at the hearing - more could’ve been done with Nora’s character, she had some good moments but I wish they had used her better and given her a little more personality.

 

This is one if the only time I agree with Serena. Yes, she lied but she did so in order to save the hostages. He wanted a lawyer and it would take time to find one and send one in. Who knew what would happen if someone else went in? She saved their lives and she saved his life. He turns around and whines because he still got arrest. Dude, you killed two women and just took hostages of course your going to jail. Nope, he whines and listen to him and others acting like Serena did a terrible thing instead of helping to end a hostage situation. I can't believe a judge or anyone else entertained him.