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Season 12: Good Riddance Lewin!

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Request: because I'm too lazy, could a mod, please list the episodes? I'd do it, despite being lazy, but I'm at home right now, and every time I try to write more than 10 sentences, on my lappie top, I end up deleting! Thanks!

 

Okay, though I wasn't a fan of Weist as Nora Lewin, when she joined in Season 11, the whole 'oh golly gee I can't believe I'm the new DA!' behavior, plus that ridonkulous "introduction" by Giuliani, playing himself, which made me roll my eyes SO HARD, she was a tough DA for most of her first season. Then something happened and she turned into someone who kept bringing up ethics or acting like more of a professor and a defense attorney. And I loathed every time she came on screen in this season.

 

Now, I hate to bring up that other board, because, well it's gone but, I think it was Spartan Girl, who had posted that she'd seen "Dazzled" and wanted to kill the daughter herself for the reason why she killed her stepmother? Because I just saw it, and man! How old is she, 10? She saw that her parents clearly didn't love each other anymore, she totally disrespected her stepmother, by telling Green that Kate (the victim) wasn't her stepmother. Which, you spoiled twat, yes, she was, by virtue of being married to your father. And she thought that by killing Kate, her parents would get back together? I suspected her from the get go. Well, okay, maybe not the get go, but from the minute that Lennie and Green were searching her mother's apartment. And she cinched it with the her deer in the headlights look while testifying at the preliminary hearing. Why it took Jack so long to home in on her, I'll never understand. Rohmbot, well, 'nuff said.

 

I just wanted to snatch her bald.  And if the boy playing her younger brother was supposed to be 11, then I'm 21.[insert sarcasm here].  Because that kid looked like he was 8 or 9.

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Episode List for Season 12: 

 

S12 : Ep01 "Who Let the Dogs Out?"
S12 : Ep02 "Armed Forces"
S12 : Ep03 "For Love or Money"
S12 : Ep04 "Soldier of Fortune"
S12 : Ep05 "Possession"
S12 : Ep06 "Formerly Famous"
S12 : Ep07 "Myth of Fingerprints"
S12 : Ep08 "The Fire This Time"
S12 : Ep09 "3 Dawg Night"
S12 : Ep10 "Prejudice" 
S12 : Ep11 "The Collar"
S12 : Ep12 "Undercovered"
S12 : Ep13 "DR 1-102"
S12 : Ep14 "Missing"
S12 : Ep15 "Access Nation"
S12 : Ep16 "Born Again"
S12 : Ep17 "Girl Most Likely"
S12 : Ep18 "Equal Rights"
S12 : Ep19 "Slaughter"
S12 : Ep20 "Dazzled"
S12 : Ep21 "Foul Play"  
S12 : Ep22 "Attorney Client"
S12 : Ep23 "Oxymoron"
S12 : Ep24 "Patriot"

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Don't know where else to put this, but "Access Nation" is on WE right now. I never liked Serena, and had my issues with the actress from when she was on One Life to Live. But I have to give her credit, this episode has what I think is easily her finest moment.

 

A woman was stalked and killed after her murderer was given her private info by a sort of internet-based private detective search firm service -- this is 2002. (Shouts to Marian from All My Children as the victim's mother!) Our DAs are trying to decide whether to criminally charge the web company. Serena, who's wanted to charge them the whole time, avails herself of their services to look up Jack and Nora. She reads Jack's file, to his and Nora's complete, utter horror. "You've got what I can only describe as a very weird obsession with The Clash." Fantastic. She straight owned them. My favorite bit of hers.

Edited by mattie0808
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Now, I hate to bring up that other board, because, well it's gone but, I think it was Spartan Girl, who had posted that she'd seen "Dazzled" and wanted to kill the daughter herself for the reason why she killed her stepmother? Because I just saw it, and man! How old is she, 10? She saw that her parents clearly didn't love each other anymore, she totally disrespected her stepmother, by telling Green that Kate (the victim) wasn't her stepmother. Which, you spoiled twat, yes, she was, by virtue of being married to your father. And she thought that by killing Kate, her parents would get back together? I suspected her from the get go.

I don't condone what she did, but honestly, those horrible parents were just as responsible for driving her off the deep end.  They took every opportunity to throw verbal bombs at each other, not caring if their children saw or over heard.  And it really pissed me off how when the girl confessed, they started doing the concerned parent act with the "don't throw your life away" spiel.  Too little, too late, assholes.

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I never liked Serena

 

I'm hard pressed to find folks who did. And I know I said this before, but it bears repeating: It sucks that Serena got to leave still breathing while both Claire and Alexandra ended up dead. Life in L&O land really is unfair.

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I want to know why Claire and Abbie (off the top of my head) had very clear introductions with Jack, but Serena just kind of showed up like she'd been down the hall forever. It was very jarring with her and Branch showing up to change things up at the same time.

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I checked both Wikipedia and the L & O Wiki entry, but there's no mention of why Serena just materialized. Maybe the wormhole that claimed Abbie, who was supposedly "right across the street" when she left the DA's office, spat Serena out in her place. Apparently, though, she and Connie are tied for number of episodes on the show with eighty-five appearances.

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Normally I avoid the Serena episodes, but I caught the last few minutes of Equal Rights (the brother-in-law of an abused woman kills her husband) which was a mistake. I wanted smack Serena (hah) when she started spouting off about how if a guy hit her, she'd hit him back, she'd never accept abuse in a relationship, and saying that women might have a hard time leaving an abuser is infantilizing them. Way back in my lawyerly days I volunteered with domestic violence victims, and: fuck you, Serena. Is she seriously ignorant of the psychological abuse, manipulation, and isolation abusers can inflict on their spouses that makes it so much harder for them to leave? Is she unaware that the most dangerous time for an abused spouse is when she is leaving/has left? Gah, she is TERRIBLE.

Edited by beadgirl
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2 hours ago, beadgirl said:

Normally I avoid the Serena episodes, but I caught the last few minutes of Equal Rights (the brother-in-law of an abused woman kills her husband) which was a mistake. I wanted smack Serena (hah) when she started spouting off about how if a guy hit her, she'd hit him back, she'd never accept abuse in a relationship, and saying that women might have a hard time leaving an abuser is infantilizing them. Way back in my lawyerly days I volunteered with domestic violence victims, and: fuck you, Serena. Has seriously ignorant of the psychological abuse, manipulation, and isolation abusers can inflict on their spouses that makes it so much harder for them to leave? Is she unaware that the most dangerous time for an abused spouse is when she is leaving/has left? Gah, she is TERRIBLE.

Yeah, but back in 2002 when it was written, I'm guessing the writers thought it was better/more PC to have those words come out of a woman's mouth than a man's. Like, imagine a male character saying that the abused wife should've left or taken martial arts classes so she could fight back.

The opening scene telegraphs that they were exploring opinions on gender:

Quote

2 women talking: There we were, all the women in the kitchen cleaning up, and all the guys watching the game.
I always thought it'd be different when we had families.
I don't think it even occurs to them.
Ha.
It occurs to Dave.
He just doesn't care.
What pisses me off about it is if I bring it up, I'm a nag.
I don't know.
Maybe it's our own fault.
We're the ones that let it happen.
No, I think men just do a good job of convincing us that it's our fault.
I mean, men can be such a pain in the ass.
Oh.
my God! Celia! I take back everything I just said.

 

Detectives: Two commuters off the 7:00 a.m. ferry, they're the ones who found him.
Oh, that's a nice way to start the day.
Guy was shot twice.
Once in the stomach, once In the chest.

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Nora pissed me off even more than Serena in Equal Rights, why the fuck didn’t she use her authority and order McCoy to make a deal, even if it was more lenient than McCoy wanted. Taking that case to trial was stupid, a total waste of time on a case they didn’t have much of a chance to win. So many season 12 episodes had weak second halves after great first halves with Briscoe and Green, and Equal Rights is the best example of that. Nora+Serena was difficult to stomach in the second half, both were extremely soft for DA’s. Season 12 is actually one of my least favorite seasons as a result of Nora+Serena in the second half, and also some of the stories just seemed rather bland IMO, at least compared to other seasons. 

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I can't even watch "Undercovered", that one pissed me off from beginning to end. Yeah I felt sorry for the perp's daughter and insurance companies suck, but HE STILL BASHED A GUY'S BRAINS OUT. The hung jury was bad enough, but the fact he was going to guy back to his wife and child like it never happened...I mean, couldn't the wife had been more horrified about what he did? And who in the right mind would let a man capable of that kind of violence still live with that child?!

Dont get me started on the twin bleeding hearts of Serena and Nora.

Edited by Spartan Girl
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13 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I can't even watch "Undercovered", that one pissed me off from beginning to end. Yeah I felt sorry for the perp's daughter and insurance companies suck, but HE STILL BASHED A GUY'S BRAINS OUT. The hung jury was bad enough, but the fact he was going to guy back to his wife and child like it never happened...I mean, couldn't the wife had been more horrified about what he did? And who in the right mind would let a man capable of that kind of violence still live with that child?!

Dont get me started on the twin bleeding hearts of Serena and Nora.

And what sort of precedent does that set for future times that insurance has denied a claim--just go beat up the employee who denied it, and you can get the coverage you want! I feel a better ending would have been the guy going to jail (maybe on reduced charge of manslaughter or something like that), and saying he was sorry for what he'd done, but his child's life was worth it to him. But at least justice still would have been served on the guy he killed.

Speaking of Serena and Nora, just watched DR 1-102, forgetting how most of it ended up being about them. With a better actress than Rohm, that could have been a really good episode, but I just wasn't buying it from her. Like "Oh no, my life might be in danger. Oh no, now I might get disbarred. Oh dear, this is awkward that my boss is testifying against me."

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4 hours ago, MarylandGirl said:

And what sort of precedent does that set for future times that insurance has denied a claim--just go beat up the employee who denied it, and you can get the coverage you want! I feel a better ending would have been the guy going to jail (maybe on reduced charge of manslaughter or something like that), and saying he was sorry for what he'd done, but his child's life was worth it to him. But at least justice still would have been served on the guy he killed.

John Q had Denzel, but even without him it would have been a much better examination of this issue and this question.  But they came out around the same time, if I remember correctly, and it felt like this was "Ripped from the Hollywood Headlines."

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This should probably go in the season 11 thread, when Nora first joined, but I'm putting it here-If it should be moved to 11, let me know @radishcake and I'll edit it.

So, even before he turned into Nosferatu, I HATED how Nora sucked up to Giuliani when he played himself after Nora took over for Adam. She was practically squeeing like a fangirl, her smile was so...she looked so...mesmerized. BLECH.

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To be fair, Giuliani was once respected, once upon a time... Amazing how the tide turns. Still, I'll agree that Nora and Serena together was like bland overload. Thank God at least Lewin left. I realize Arthur Branch seemed annoying, but he had a bit more gravitas to him.

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1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

To be fair, Giuliani was once respected, once upon a time... Amazing how the tide turns. Still, I'll agree that Nora and Serena together was like bland overload. Thank God at least Lewin left. I realize Arthur Branch seemed annoying, but he had a bit more gravitas to him.

Gravitas? I'm not sure that's really true. Lewin had a certain amount of gravitas with her professorial air and was shown to be respected in legal circles. And Fred Thompson never seemed to have much gravitas, especially given that he was actually a US Senator. I think the word you're looking for is "personality"!

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5 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Gravitas? I'm not sure that's really true. Lewin had a certain amount of gravitas with her professorial air and was shown to be respected in legal circles. And Fred Thompson never seemed to have much gravitas, especially given that he was actually a US Senator. I think the word you're looking for is "personality"!

Well, personality is another way to look at it!

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Undercovered pisses me off as well, Nora especially, she was basically arguing that the guy should get a free pass for bashing someone’s head in because of the situation with his kid. She was a joke of a DA, and her and Serena were beyond irritating, both bleeding heart softies, made season 12’s legal stuff difficult to get through at times. 

Like I’ve said before, I loathed most of Branch’s politics, but he had a lot of charisma and personality, and he wasn’t afraid to be decisive or bring down the hammer on people, he brought a spark back to the DA’s scenes that had been missing during the Nora years. He wasn’t as awesome as Schiff, but he had personality and would throw out some funny lines and colorful stories. 

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20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Branch/Thompson will always be Foghorn Leghorn for me.

Well, Adam Schiff will always be #1 to me, but if we couldn't have him, I personally would choose Branch over Lewin without a moment's hesitation. Dianne Wiest is a fine actress, but I never thought she was a good fit on this show.

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1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, Adam Schiff will always be #1 to me, but if we couldn't have him, I personally would choose Branch over Lewin without a moment's hesitation. Dianne Wiest is a fine actress, but I never thought she was a good fit on this show.

Adam will always be #1 to me too. After him I'll take Branch over Nora any day. I don't like his politics either but he at least acted like he knew what his job was. Nora and Serena I really found it hard to believe they even managed as lawyers. Did they both spend every day locked up in the law libraries every day of their life before ending up at the DA's office?  Does Nora ever look at the crime scene photos? Has she ever had to talk to a victims family? Has Serena? Your prosecuting people for horrible crimes. Where's the compassion for the victim? Their families? A man bashes in another person's head. But that's okay because its insurance?  And the man had a kid? Ah murderers often have kids too. Serial killers have been married. Her sympathy for a teen who murdered four people might not be bad if she wasn't shocked that they now had to prosecute him for four counts of murder. Serena in the her last episode remarks that everyone she talked to said defendant was a good kid. Except that generally is what happens. That's why neighbors and family of people arrested for horrible crimes are always shocked because they were a great son/brother/father. Yes, they can be that and also still be a murder.  Serena thinks she'd smack back at a man who hits her? So she's never prosecuted abusive men before? Because if she had she would have heard similar stories. It never starts with a beating or a hit. It starts with slowly isolating, undermining herself worth, esteem, and everything else so when the first hit comes. She'll be surprised but less likely to tell anyone and more likely to believe his apologizes and swearing never to  do it again.  Its like neither women live in the real world despite working a job that would have them around the ugliest of the world. Its easy to spout idolizes and ideas when your not dealing with women who have been abused or looking at a woman who's abusive husband or boyfriend finally killed her or he killed her mother or father or beat up someone else trying to find her.  

Edited by andromeda331
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So watched "Famously Famous" earlier today (Hey, I'm recording on all networks and this was on BBCA) and I'm surprised at the goof that the writers had Jack make.

Turns out Vega* (Gary Busey), wasn't the biological father of the baby he wanted custody of. But the baby was born when he was married to the mother, so LEGALLY, that baby, Sarah, was his, no matter that his wife was threatening to reveal he wasn't. 

Jack threw out that line how it would be proven Vega wasn't the father. Wrong! A child born into wedlock, whether or not they are the biological child of the man, is LEGALLY their child.

But then we wouldn't have gotten the drama of Vega jumping out of his seat the grand jury.

*This was totally the case ripped from the headlines based on Robert Blake. And I won't lie that it shocked me and saddened me because I loved Barretta when I was wee and watched it.

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Some people wouldn't care about legal fatherhood if they don't have biological fatherhood. It also proves his wife carried another man's baby, which some men find humiliating. Still a decent threat.

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I watched The Collar tonight, this is a really good episode, I liked the investigation and legal stuff and how Jack handled the situation with Father Evans, I think Father Evans did the right thing by testifying and he was within his legal right to do so because of the nature of the conversation, as they explained in the episode, but he clearly felt guilty about it, and Jack had mixed feelings at the end you could tell, while justice had been served and an innocent man freed, Father Evans was compromised as a priest. I liked how Jack, while not being religious himself, still respected the sanctity of priest/penitent privilege and felt for Father Evans, who was in a very tough spot.

Even Nora got a good moment in this episode when she stood up to the church lawyer and threw him out of her office after he started in about how the voters would feel about Nora’s actions.

Next up was Undercovered, and Nora was extremely irritating in this episode, she was so soft in talking about the defendant who killed the guy who voted to deny a certain medical treatment to the killer’s daughter. The victim had done nothing to deserve to die, he was just doing his job, there was no excuse for the killer kidnapping him and bashing his skull in, and I was sick of Nora making excuses for him. The jury deadlocking was an unhappy ending, and I was appalled that the killer’s wife was apparently going to let him come home and live with her and their daughter, he bashed a guy’s skull in for god’s sake. There was nothing that justified this murder, and I wanted Nora to shove it. 

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And in this edition of “Nora is a useless twit” I watched “The Fire This Time” about the environmentalist terrorists that burned down a building and killed the woman inside as a result. And Nora, of course, that their intent was “protest” and therefore not criminal.

Like that makes it any better?!?! Someone DIED. BURNED ALIVE.

”We didn’t mean for anyone to get hurt, we didn’t know anyone was in there…” DON’T CARE. You started the fire, ergo it’s your fault. What you “meant” to happen doesn’t mean a lick of spit.

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6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

And in this edition of “Nora is a useless twit” I watched “The Fire This Time” about the environmentalist terrorists that burned down a building and killed the woman inside as a result. And Nora, of course, that their intent was “protest” and therefore not criminal.

Like that makes it any better?!?! Someone DIED. BURNED ALIVE.

”We didn’t mean for anyone to get hurt, we didn’t know anyone was in there…” DON’T CARE. You started the fire, ergo it’s your fault. What you “meant” to happen doesn’t mean a lick of spit.

What’s worse is that Nora believes only those 25 and older can commit crimes and should pay the price. She was bloviating about the arsonists as “naive children” who deserve understanding. 
 

No wonder why that crooked and murdering State senator lobbied for Nora to be appointed as interim DA to Giuliani. Benton knew Nora was worthless and weak. Probably thought she could be used as her puppet if she hadn’t been exposed.

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Nora drove me nuts in some episodes, she was so damn soft for a DA and lacked authority - The Fire This Time is a great example of that, she was for some reason very sympathetic to the radical activists who burned down the building, killing a woman, just because they were young. Those people deserved no sympathy, they knew they could harm someone by burning down the building and they were guilty of murder. Also in Undercovered, when Nora was extremely sympathetic to the father who murdered the insurance executive who denied a certain treatment for his daughter, Nora seemed to be very sympathetic to him and seemed to want Jack to go soft. She was just not a good DA, she seemed to have no authority and was just dull and weak.

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Saw "Slaughter" this morning. Is Ed a vegan or maybe vegetarian? When Ed asked Lennie if he got him a sandwich, Lennie said they didn't have anything with tofu and Ed didn't want half of Lennie's sandwich. 

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29 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

Saw "Slaughter" this morning. Is Ed a vegan or maybe vegetarian? When Ed asked Lennie if he got him a sandwich, Lennie said they didn't have anything with tofu and Ed didn't want half of Lennie's sandwich. 

If I remember correctly, he is a vegetarian. 

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I have rather fond memories of S12, because it was the year I began watching regularly. I was still in college then.

Am I the only one who wondered why Dianne Wiest even accepted the L&O job? She had such a prolific and acclaimed career on both stage and screen, but Nora was such a dull, one-dimensional role. A broomstick with a wig could have played the part. I'm surprised she even stuck it out for two seasons.

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