Season 12: Good Riddance Lewin!

[Xeliou66]

10 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah it was a really good episode. I like the twist too of the murderer killing the wrong priest. The discussion about whether Father Evans should break the seal of the confession or not. I can see why the church had an issue with it. People need to feel that they can come to confession and their confessions won't be used against them  or reveal to others. That is the point of confession and their role. But I do wish there were exceptions although there's probably no way to make that happen. But knowing that murderer confesses to you and he/she will either get away with it or if someone else is arrest for the crime. They should be able to do something instead of letting an innocent person go to jail. I just can't imagine knowing something like that and doing nothing. Like in this case. I am really glad Father Evans broke his confession. It was the right thing to do but I feel bad that he has to leave the church. I like that Nora stood up to the church too. Lennie and Green were great as always that was a good line from Green.
 

This is one if the only time I agree with Serena. Yes, she lied but she did so in order to save the hostages. He wanted a lawyer and it would take time to find one and send one in. Who knew what would happen if someone else went in? She saved their lives and she saved his life. He turns around and whines because he still got arrest. Dude, you killed two women and just took hostages of course your going to jail. Nope, he whines and listen to him and others acting like Serena did a terrible thing instead of helping to end a hostage situation. I can't believe a judge or anyone else entertained him. 

Yeah The Collar is a great episode - I understood both positions, but in these circumstances Father Evans was right to tell what happened, for the reasons Jack’s priest friend pointed out, this specific conversation wasn’t privileged. I wondered if Father Evans would have to leave the church at the end, because he didn’t technically break the rules given the circumstances, but I took it that he would probably choose leave the priesthood, because he felt he had been compromised as a priest. He did the right thing but it was a tough decision. Bishop Durning who appeared in this episode would appear again in the next season in the episode Under God, where he testified for the prosecution, good continuity. It was a great episode, it was one of Nora’s better episodes, and of course Green and Briscoe were great, I loved how they traced the killer from the gun and got to the bottom of the case. I hope the sleazebag who beat his wife because he thought she was sleeping with the victim went to jail. Overall I would say The Collar is a top 5 episode in season 12.

Serena did the right thing in DR1-102, and I thought it was clear she did what she did to save lives and not to try to build a case. It was crazy to try to disbar her for that. It was another pretty good episode, and Nora’s testimony was interesting, and Briscoe/Green were great as always. But the murderer was a real piece of shit and his whining about Serena was pathetic, given that Serena was the only reason he was still alive. Fuck him.

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 10/5/2023 at 11:02 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Serena did the right thing in DR1-102, and I thought it was clear she did what she did to save lives and not to try to build a case.

No, she didn't. She and the cops denied the perp his right to counsel because they didn't want to what? Lose the collar? Let him be represented so he couldn't confess? Later and later in the seasons, it seemed the cops resented having to issue Miranda warnings and refused to stop questioning when suspects asked for a lawyer-by threatening them.

No, she shouldn't have been disbarred; she got off easy. And pure plot reasons, had Jack representing her--when both Claire and Jack had good lawyers defending them when they appeared before the committee.

I hate "Patriot" so damn much. This season and the next several dealt with more terrorism, than the good variety murders I much prefer! It would have shown BALLS if Wolf had let it be known that Yuseff was actually innocent. But noooo...

Anyhoo, weird thing, been watching on BBCA, which doesn't bleep or edit out, but after the finale of this season, the next season goes back to season 4! Guess they don't have rights to seasons 1-3? Which is a damned shame.

[Xeliou66]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No, she didn't. She and the cops denied the perp his right to counsel because they didn't want to what? Lose the collar? Let him be represented so he couldn't confess? Later and later in the seasons, it seemed the cops resented having to issue Miranda warnings and refused to stop questioning when suspects asked for a lawyer-by threatening them.

No, she shouldn't have been disbarred; she got off easy. And pure plot reasons, had Jack representing her--when both Claire and Jack had good lawyers defending them when they appeared before the committee.

I hate "Patriot" so damn much. This season and the next several dealt with more terrorism, than the good variety murders I much prefer! It would have shown BALLS if Wolf had let it be known that Yuseff was actually innocent. But noooo...

Anyhoo, weird thing, been watching on BBCA, which doesn't bleep or edit out, but after the finale of this season, the next season goes back to season 4! Guess they don't have rights to seasons 1-3? Which is a damned shame.

They didn’t deny the perp his right to counsel - they could not send in another civilian into a hostage situation where the killer had a knife to a woman’s throat. It had nothing to do with building a case against the killer and everything to do with not wanting anyone to get killed. Serena’s actions probably saved the life of the killer, and it was pathetic how he whined about Serena’s actions when Serena is probably the only reason he was still alive - they could’ve just let SWAT try to take him out. So while Serena did use some deception, she wasn’t doing it to help build a case against the killer, she did it to diffuse the situation. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

They didn’t deny the perp his right to counsel

Yes, they did. Sending in Serena--who was an assistant district attorney--someone who wouldn't and couldn't represent the suspect's interests-is denying him counsel.

They could have sent a defense attorney along with the hostage negotiator who had been speaking with him earlier.

That said, I agree, the suspect was just being stupid about whining because he was guilty. But what Van Buren and Serena did-did violate his right to counsel.

[Xeliou66]

33 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yes, they did. Sending in Serena--who was an assistant district attorney--someone who wouldn't and couldn't represent the suspect's interests-is denying him counsel.

They could have sent a defense attorney along with the hostage negotiator who had been speaking with him earlier.

That said, I agree, the suspect was just being stupid about whining because he was guilty. But what Van Buren and Serena did-did violate his right to counsel.

They couldn’t send another civilian in to a hostage situation - that would be extremely dangerous and very much against protocol, so no they couldn’t send in a defense lawyer. It was either use Serena or let SWAT try to take the guy out. And it’s not like attorney client privilege would’ve applied in that situation, the presence of the hostage meant that any conversation they had wouldn’t be privileged. Serena misled the killer but she had no choice, they couldn’t let a civilian go in. Serena’s actions are the only reason that piece of shit would have a chance at being free again, and his whining about Serena violating his rights pissed me off, he would likely have left in a body bag if not for Serena. There was no way to honor the suspects request for a lawyer when he was making the request at while holding a woman at knifepoint. 

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

They couldn’t send another civilian in to a hostage situation - that would be extremely dangerous and very much against protocol, so no they couldn’t send in a defense lawyer. It was either use Serena or let SWAT try to take the guy out. And it’s not like attorney client privilege would’ve applied in that situation, the presence of the hostage meant that any conversation they had wouldn’t be privileged. Serena misled the killer but she had no choice, they couldn’t let a civilian go in. Serena’s actions are the only reason that piece of shit would have a chance at being free again, and his whining about Serena violating his rights pissed me off, he would likely have left in a body bag if not for Serena. There was no way to honor the suspects request for a lawyer when he was making the request at while holding a woman at knifepoint. 

I agree the cops would never send another civilian into a hostage situation.

[GHScorpiosRule]

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

They couldn’t send another civilian in to a hostage situation - that would be extremely dangerous and very much against protocol, so no they couldn’t send in a defense lawyer. It was either use Serena or let SWAT try to take the guy out. And it’s not like attorney client privilege would’ve applied in that situation, the presence of the hostage meant that any conversation they had wouldn’t be privileged. Serena misled the killer but she had no choice, they couldn’t let a civilian go in. Serena’s actions are the only reason that piece of shit would have a chance at being free again, and his whining about Serena violating his rights pissed me off, he would likely have left in a body bag if not for Serena. There was no way to honor the suspects request for a lawyer when he was making the request at while holding a woman at knifepoint. 

 

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree the cops would never send another civilian into a hostage situation.

This will be my last comment about this; I confirmed this with one of my attorneys, and the perp absolutely was denied counsel; and in real life, Serena would have been disbarred.

But since this is a fiction show, let's just agree to disagree. Because as stated above, the hostage negotiator could have come in with counsel.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

This will be my last comment about this; I confirmed this with one of my attorneys, and the perp absolutely was denied counsel; and in real life, Serena would have been disbarred.

But since this is a fiction show, let's just agree to disagree. Because as stated above, the hostage negotiator could have come in with counsel.

Yeah I just have to disagree - they would never let another civilian enter a hostage situation, that would be extremely reckless and dangerous and could go very badly. So it was either use Serena or ignore the perp’s request entirely - there’s no way they could honor his request for counsel. Serena didn’t do what she did to try to build a case against him, she did it to diffuse the situation. The disciplinary committee got it right.