Martha: Who Knew?

[Tara Ariano]

Oh, Martha. Martha, Martha, Martha.

[TravisNelson76]

I only hope that at some point before she kicks the bucket (which is inevitable, right?) Martha gets a kicky makeover montage.  Shoulder pads will be involved.  Maybe a turban?

[Carrie Ann]

I can't stand Martha. It feels mean to dislike someone so pathetic, but man, she bugs me. There is no good end to her story, but it would be nice if she took a little more control in the meantime.

[TravisNelson76]

Martha's actually my favorite character on the show.  I love her bursts of optimism and practicality.  Does she say, "Oh, Clark" a lot in a bemused tone?  It feels like she says, "Oh, Clark" a lot in a bemused tone.

[David T. Cole]

Please listen and then whole-heartedly agree with my I Am Not A Crackpot on the Martha-Clark fake wig dynamic on EHG 23.

[TravisNelson76]

I listened, Dave.  And you are of course right.  But because I love Martha so, I am choosing to fan-wank the situation as follows: Martha KNOWS that Clark is wearing a wig.  She just assumes that it is because he is going bald.  And although she certainly gabs about the situation with her best friends Judy and Carol, she daresn't bring it up with Clark himself.  

[Kierstyn]

Travis, I love your fan-slpanation.  It works for me, and is my going assumption until we see otherwise.  thank you!

[David T. Cole]

Well, shit that does make sense in the best fanwankiest tradition.

[Kierstyn]

This week Martha made me want to smack her in the face with one of her white wine bottles. 

What woman talks to her sister-in-law about the details of her sex life with said sister-in-law's brother?

  Ugh!  Drunk Martha is the worst Martha.

[Carrie Ann]

Oh no! I actually thought Drunk Martha was the Best Martha! I mean, YES, that part was so so so gross. But she was drunk, and probably not thinking straight. And Elizabeth was not giving off the usual horrified, disgusted vibes a sister-in-law would, so Martha didn't even have that to snap her out of her reverie about Clark's wild animal lovin'.

[Hal25]

As Martha scenes go, I thought the ones in this latest episode were pretty okay. She's not a particularly compelling character compared to some of the others, but at least this season they're keeping her clothes on and having some scenes outside the bedroom. Will be interested to see where they go with her character, hopefully NOT a pregnancy...

[Milburn Stone]

I feel bad for Martha! I realize she'll be lucky not to end up dead or in prison, but I actually want a better fate for her than merely dodging those bullets--I want her to end up happy. It's hard to imagine a scenario in which she doesn't end up emotionally destroyed, but she doesn't deserve that; she fell for Clark's charms only because she was so desperately lonely. Hey, maybe she'll find a new boyfriend and throw Clark out! Yeah, that's the ticket.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Milburn Stone

[Happy to be here]

Martha is one of the truly good people on the show.  One of the few people without a secondary agenda.  She wants "Clarke" to be happy.  She wants a happy marriage.  She wants to go to work and be recognized for her job.  She doesn't understand why she is getting none of these things.  Its funny; I didn't particularly care for her in season 1 but now the more she is on my screen the more I am liking her and the more I am wanting her to get all the things she wants; but this is not really the show for that.  It is more likely that she will outlive her usefulness and Phillip will have to kill her.  Whether he will or not is the question and where I come up with weird little scenerios on how to keep her or.....lose her.  

Edited April 26, 2014 by ChaosTheory

[TravisNelson76]

I just caught up on last week's episode and discovered that my fan-splanation for the Clark-Martha Wig Situation (from earlier in this thread) was TOTALLY RIGHT!  She's known it is a toupee the whole time!  But was just too polite to say so!  Fan-wanking 4 The Win!

[SunnyBeBe]

Martha has to be my favorite character.  She adds something to the show that is so unique.  I do wonder about her fate.  With everything she knows and everything she's seen, such as her husband's fake family, it's too dangerous to allow her to live.  Yet, how in the world would Philip kill her?  Man, that's cold. I guess he would have Claudia or Elizabeth do it for him.  It's really heartbreaking, but I can't imagine a scenario that allows her to live, except for the possibility they could fake her husband's death.

[millennium]

The scenes where Clark explains to Martha that kids just aren't in the script broke my heart.   She gets no fulfillment at work, she lives in that lonely little apartment with a fake husband who has fake hair and who's there maybe six hours a week, and all she wants is a baby.    Sorry, Martha.  Not gonna happen.

 

I suppose that if she weren't a pawn in the spy game, Martha would probably live out her existence alone, anyway.  A spinster secretary for life.

 

The fact that she's been tricked into believing she's loved makes it all the more sad.

Martha has to be my favorite character.  She adds something to the show that is so unique.  I do wonder about her fate.  With everything she knows and everything she's seen, such as her husband's fake family, it's too dangerous to allow her to live.  Yet, how in the world would Philip kill her?  Man, that's cold. I guess he would have Claudia or Elizabeth do it for him.  It's really heartbreaking, but I can't imagine a scenario that allows her to live, except for the possibility they could fake her husband's death.

 

I think Philip would do it himself.

 

I believe he feels sorry for Martha and harbors a lot of guilt over what he's done to her.   And from that guilt comes anger.   Her gullibility made it possible for him to do these terrible things.   It's her fault that he was able to dupe her.   What kind of self-respecting woman would settle for the crumbs Clark offers?  

 

Philip would so kill her.

[ElsieH]

How exactly does he explain never staying with her in her apartment? I must have missed that somewhere, but I was wondering where she thinks he is all the time.

[Carrie Ann]

He does stay over sometimes, and she thinks he has a separate place and that he also travels for work. She knows he can't stay with her regularly due to the secrecy about their relationship.

[RedheadZombie]

I'm confused by a few Martha related things.  She knows she's spying for Clark, but she thinks it's work related right?  Kind of like internal affairs monitoring the police?  I know it's a secret relationship, but he seems to come and go without sunglasses, trench coat, and mask, so he doesn't seem to fear discovery.  He's met her family.  So why in the world has she never been to his place?  I didn't really think about it until his sister (Jennifer?) came that day to ward Martha off, and told her she had been at Clark's apartment and heard the answering machine.    I just don't get how he keeps her away from the supposed apartment.

 

Also, wouldn't she expect her husband to help her out with bills and rent?  I know it was the 80s, but roles were more traditional back then.  And where does Martha suppose a foster child is going to sleep, the bathtub?

 

I also don't get the portrayal that Martha is so desperate for male attention that she'll take bread crumbs.  I remember Stan's partner pursuing her rather aggressively, she spurned his advances, and did not act at all pathetic or needy.  I do like that the new FBI guy is showing her interest.  Maybe Clark will just disappear one day.  I think murdering Martha is pretty risky.  Her parents met him and her neighbors would have some familiarity with the guy who shows up regularly.

 

If Martha has to die and Phillip does it, I don't think I'll be able to get over that.  I would never look at him the same.

[sistermagpie]

Presumably he does help her out with rent and things--Philip's got plenty of money to spend on his assets. I don't think she's really being that desperate, though. Clark treated her well, he just came with the difficult situation of their not being able to be together openly. So she makes allowances for that. To us it looks like breadcrumbs but for her it's a temporary situation until the investigation is finished or whatever and then they'll be together openly.

 

Which means Philip's just got to have some out, because he can't ever let that happen.

[RedHawk]

I loved Philip telling Elizabeth that Martha was talking about a foster child and saying, "You don't know her. I could show up one day and there'd be a kid there!" Martha does sort of end up getting her way in everything. I mean, she got Philip to MARRY her!

Edited February 24, 2015 by RedHawk

[ElsieH]

But where does Martha think he is when he isn't staying with her? I can't imagine being married and only seeing my husband once a week or whatever it is. And I mean, if they actually got married, what reason on earth could he give her that makes sense to still be keeping the relationship under wraps? I've just never understood that, especially if she wants to have a kid now. That whole thing just seems weird.

[sistermagpie]

She thinks he still has the same apartment he had when they were dating--which she may or may not have seen. They have the same reason for keeping it under wraps now as they did before, that there's a conflict of interests with his job since he's investigating her office.

 

It's definitely weird, but it's a weirdness that he introduced the first time he met her and hasn't changed so if she bought it then she'd buy it now.

[BW Manilowe]

But where does Martha think he is when he isn't staying with her? I can't imagine being married and only seeing my husband once a week or whatever it is. And I mean, if they actually got married, what reason on earth could he give her that makes sense to still be keeping the relationship under wraps? I've just never understood that, especially if she wants to have a kid now. That whole thing just seems weird.

I guess Martha thinks "Clark" just kept his apartment/house he was living in before they "married". And that he did it so their relationship doesn't get them into trouble at the FBI, where they both supposedly work (Martha actually does; "Clark" actually doesn't). She already thinks his request not to tell anyone at work they're "married" is logical & believable, so this works, for me.

It's a good thing they haven't written Martha as so curious about where "Clark" goes when he leaves her that she follows him home or to the travel agency. They did that with Stan's partner in S1, whose name I've forgotten, who was supposed to be having a thing with Martha. He found out about "Clark", went to Martha's early 1 morning & caught "Clark" leaving; he tried to question "Clark" about what he was doing with Martha & ended up dead for doing it.

They had a real ceremony, but "Clark" told Martha afterwards that he'd file the license & the other paperwork which would make it legal (& Philip a bigamist) if actually filed (he was supposed to have mailed it, I think) & then he never actually filed it. So, real ceremony or not, I don't think they're actually married.

He asked her to keep it under wraps, among other reasons, 'cause they're both supposed to be working for the FBI & (if I remember right) "Clark" said they had to keep it secret at work so neither of them would get fired ("no fraternization among employees", & all that), which she actually saw as logical.

He also didn't want her telling her family, I guess so if she eventually disappears under "mysterious" circumstances, her family won't be able to put the finger on him for it. But she surprised him by having her family conveniently visiting at her apartment when he came over for breakfast, before they were "married", so they know "Clark" now & that apparently didn't work so well for Philip.

[RedHawk]

They had a real ceremony, but "Clark" told Martha afterwards that he'd file the license & the other paperwork which would make it legal (& Philip a bigamist) if actually filed (he was supposed to have mailed it, I think) & then he never actually filed it. So, real ceremony or not, I don't think they're actually married.

 

 

That's true, they are not legally married because he's not "Clark" and he never filed the papers, which were probably fake anyway. Philip and Elizabeth are also in a fake marriage because their documents (and identities) are fake. Plus, he and Elizabeth are not "married" -- they never had a ceremony or said the vows, not even in Russia. So Misha is not a bigamist, he's single!

 

I'm surprised that Martha doesn't have one very close female friend that she has confided in. I don't know any woman who doesn't have that "best friend" who they can tell their deepest secrets. Martha would want to tell someone (besides her parents) that she is married, and that they're working their way through the kama sutra... I guess working for the FBI she's more used to keeping secrets.

Edited February 25, 2015 by RedHawk

[SimoneS]

Martha got that gun that Clark did not want her to get. If she finds out the truth about how he duped her, can see her killing him in a rage in the series finale.

[RedheadZombie]

I like Martha, but it took a while.  They make the sex scenes between Martha and Philip so deliberately revolting, that I used to dread the scenes involving them.  I've gotten over that, and I'm going to have a problem if Philip decides to kill her. 

 

I'm bothered that we're supposed to believe that Martha is a desperate woman, grateful for the little time that Clark gives her.  When we met her, Amador was pursuing her hard, and she haughtily dismissed him.  But he was so hung up on her he was stalking her. 

 

Martha is good at her job and respected by her colleagues.  I really hate that she easily believed the tape that Philip tampered with.  I like that she disobeys Clark - surprising him with her parents, threatening to fill out the transfer form, buying a gun, pushing for a child.  Let Philip sweat a little.  I wish I could see Elizabeth suffering in the same way, once in a while.

[Umbelina]

So, since Martha can no longer easily grab classified documents, is her only real use to "Clark" the bug?  If that is finally found, Martha may be useless, and Clark can die on one of his business trips or something.  Martha might still be on screen at times, with the FBI office scenes, or she could see "Clark" alive after his death, or get caught with the bug stuff.

 

I think there is a lot of life in the old Martha character yet.

[sistermagpie]

I think Martha has a lot of uses to Clark--remember he married her before there was ever any idea about her getting files. She's got the bug, which is the biggest thing, but also just as an FBI secretary she's an important in to the office.

 

I don't think we were supposed to see Martha as that desperate. Lonely, yes. But if she was so pathetic she would have just been thrilled when Amador wanted her back. Instead she was standing her ground and refusing to be treated the way he apparently treated her. What made her fall for Clark was that he wasn't Amador. Of course to us he's worse because it's all a lie and he really has a whole other family, but to her it's more like he was so great for her she was willing to work around the problems he laid out from the outset and has stuck to all this time. After all, it's not like he's constantly coming up with more for her to do or less time to see her.

 

She might still get tired of it eventually, of course. And if she does she'll say something because she's not really that pathetic, especially now that she's got her confidence back thanks to Clark.

[Chaos Theory]

Martha is an interesting character.   Next to Elizabeth and Philip; I find her the most interesting character on the show.  I think the board needs to be changed to " Martha: Poor Martha"  Because calling Martha a chump is really wrong because Martha is no more a chump then anyone else the Jennings con into doing what they want them to do.  The Jennings are extremely good at being exactly what the person they are conning needs.   For Martha that was the perfect boyfriend and husband.  The problem with being "perfect" and giving the person exactly what they need is that the person either drowns or grows and Martha grew.    Her story arc started as a intelligent well intentioned but extremely lonely women and now that she has Clark in her life she has blossomed.  However now that she is starting to suspect Clark isn't who he appears to be all bets are off when it comes to Martha.  The old Martha would have fallen apart; but you have to remember we aren't dealing with the old Martha.  We are dealing with a stronger more self assured Martha.  We are dealing with a Martha Clark created.  

 

A Martha who is capable of anything.

[RedHawk]

They make the sex scenes between Martha and Philip so deliberately revolting, that I used to dread the scenes involving them.

 

 

I always thought they were hilarious!

[Umbelina]

So, since Martha can no longer easily grab classified documents, is her only real use to "Clark" the bug?  If that is finally found, Martha may be useless, and Clark can die on one of his business trips or something.  Martha might still be on screen at times, with the FBI office scenes, or she could see "Clark" alive after his death, or get caught with the bug stuff.

 

I think there is a lot of life in the old Martha character yet.

I have to quote myself a week ago, because...ha!

 

The bug WAS found, and also?  Martha just became one of the most interesting characters on screen, to me anyway.  Yup, there is a lot of life in her character, and I hope Chekov's gun doesn't get her killed, there are so many more interesting things that can happen now.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Umbelina

[kikaha]

A Martha who is capable of anything.

She does have a gun.  I wonder if she might use it, and on whom?  My sense is the list of potential candidates is limited to two. 

 

ETA: here's one gruesome way the Americans can handle this.  Things come to a head between Phillip and Martha: they both know she knows.  Phillip uses Martha's own gun to kill her.  Makes it look like suicide, with a note talking about her shame over betraying her nation.  Two birds with one stone. 

 

It just seems like Martha is all liability for P&E from here on. 

Edited March 12, 2015 by kikaha

[Chaos Theory]

She does have a gun.  I wonder if she might use it, and on whom?  My sense is the list of potential candidates is limited to two. 

 

ETA: here's one gruesome way the Americans can handle this.  Things come to a head between Phillip and Martha: they both know she knows.  Phillip uses Martha's own gun to kill her.  Makes it look like suicide, with a note talking about her shame over betraying her nation.  Two birds with one stone. 

 

It just seems like Martha is all liability for P&E from here on. 

 

Yes but the Russian lose in the end.    It is also possible that Martha confronts Clark and makes it out alive and confesses to her bosses.      This always appeared to me to be one of the those shows with a short shelf life (on purpose) and Philip either at the end of this season or the next  to protect Paige goes to Stan and confesses to being a Russian Spy and guess who is there to take his statement.   As part of her plea to not end up in jail she agrees to "get Clark and his sister"  the confrontation scene would be epic.  

[kikaha]

Chaos Theory -- they lose (though recent events might call that in question), but that is still years in the future. 

 

The only way I see Martha surviving is if the show is near its end, and she helps round them up, perhaps as you suggest.  Not what I expect though.  

[Umbelina]

I still think Clark faking his own death is possible. 

 

Would Martha really bother confessing and thus, further screwing up her life, if "the bad guy" was already dead?  I don't think she would.  No one knows she's "married" after all.

 

I don't want Martha to die!  She's just moved up to one of my favorite characters on the show.

[JennyMominFL]

I think Martha will find out who he is and use the gun on herself.

Edited March 12, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[kikaha]

Jenny, she is one of the two people in her sights IMO.  Phillip could then fake a note, where Martha takes the blame for the bug.  KGB could probably plant enough evidence to make this believable. 

[RedHawk]

It just seems like Martha is all liability for P&E from here on.

 

 

That's what I love about this show. The things that everyone believes are the only things that could possibly happen are not what happens. What seems to be the next turn in the story rarely is.

[BW Manilowe]

Alison Wright (Martha) & Executive Producers Joel Fields & Joe Weisberg discuss "poor Martha's point of view in this week's podcast:

https://m.soundcloud.com/panoply/the-americans-s3-e8-divestment-slate-tv-club

Alison Wright (Martha) talks to The Wall Street Journal's Speakeasy blog about Martha & recent developments in S3.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-SEB-87457

Among other things in the linked interview, Alison said that while the "norm" is for the actors to get their scripts 1 at a time, she was given the scripts for Eps 307 & 308 *together*. She said this was because the events in 307 & 308 take place, for Martha, over the course of *2 days* & she really needed to know how it all fit together (she said the 2 days were basically split between the scripts); so the showrunners made an exception in her case & gave her both scripts together.

[SunnyBeBe]

Does anyone think that Martha was believed in her last interview?  Did that investigator buy it hook, line and sinker, or did he see through her lies?  He seemed pretty relaxed when they parted ways.  I wonder if her hand was sweaty when she shook his.  lol

[Loandbehold]

Does anyone think that Martha was believed in her last interview?  Did that investigator buy it hook, line and sinker, or did he see through her lies?  He seemed pretty relaxed when they parted ways.  I wonder if her hand was sweaty when she shook his.  lol

Much like the trope that the spouse is always the prime suspect in the murder of their partner, a secretary will usually be one of the prime suspects in situations like this because they have pretty much unfettered access to the office. I'm sure the investigator suspects Martha. He probably wants to see if (a) he can shake her into confessing or revealing something, and / or (b) getting approval to have her followed in the hope that she will lead them to her handler.

 

Sweaty hands. Yuck.

[SunnyBeBe]

While she might have covered well, the sweaty palms don't lie.  Philip should have told her about putting antiperspirant on her hands.  I was shocked that she had to beg Philip to help her on this matter.  I would think he would be very invested in teaching her to pass a polygraph even.  So odd. 

Edited April 10, 2015 by SunnyBeBe

[Umbelina]

Not just odd, bad writing all the way around.  A perfect set up for lots of good stuff too.  A shame.

 

My guess is she's caught now, or killed.  All of the layers that could have played out between Clark and Martha won't happen.

[ToastnBacon]

What happened to marriage licenses in the 1980s?

I'm sure they weren't in a database like today, but there is a record of her secret marriage floating around a county courthouse in Virginia, right?

When the interviewer asked about her personal life, I thought he asked about something he already knew the answer to.

I guess they would do a background check on everyone in the office, but I'm not sure that they would easily find out about an unreported marriage back then.

[Couch Sweet Potato]

I'm pretty sure there is NO paperwork on file for Martha and Clark's marriage.

 

"Clark" said he'd take care of the license. Of course he did.

 

So, interviewer asks if Martha is married. If he's done his homework, he would expect her to say she is not. She says she isn't married. No conflict there.

[ToastnBacon]

I'm pretty sure there is NO paperwork on file for Martha and Clark's marriage.

 

"Clark" said he'd take care of the license. Of course he did.

 

So, interviewer asks if Martha is married. If he's done his homework, he would expect her to say she is not. She says she isn't married. No conflict there.

Thanks, I didn't remember Clark saying that.

However, I'm really hoping she gets busted or confesses soon.

Martha is a strange character, I really disliked her at first, but she is so pitiful that I can't help but feel sorry for her.

I think she has more of a chance of living if she is busted or confesses; plus, I think it will provide more action than her getting killed by the KGB.

[BW Manilowe]

Thanks, I didn't remember Clark saying that.

However, I'm really hoping she gets busted or confesses soon.

Martha is a strange character, I really disliked her at first, but she is so pitiful that I can't help but feel sorry for her.

I think she has more of a chance of living if she is busted or confesses; plus, I think it will provide more action than her getting killed by the KGB.

"Clark" told Martha & her family he'd take the paperwork on the marriage & file it personally, or mail it personally so it could be filed, as soon as the ceremony was over. It was actually written into the ep.

He realized he had to take care of it, & not let Martha or 1 of her family do it--no matter how well-meaning they may be--when Elizabeth pointed out Martha may find out about Philip & Elizabeth, & realize either he's a bigamist or the P&E marriage isn't anymore legal than the "C"&M marriage, & they can't afford (or couldn't afford, at the time) for her to find out about them if she/her side of the family files the papers either in person or by mail.

Martha & her family got all "Well, if you're sure it's no trouble for you..." with "Clark" as he was quickly gathering the papers so they couldn't back out on him, stuffed the envelope/papers in his inside jacket pocket, & that was the last anyone ever saw of them. He never filed the papers, in person or via mail.

[gwhh]

I have a soft spot in my heart for Martha. Because my grandmother was named Martha! So I hope she comes out ok at the end of this show.

Edited April 13, 2015 by gwhh

[RedHawk]

I have a soft spot in my heart for Martha. Because my grandmother was named Martha! So I hope she comes out ok at the end of this show.

Mine, too! And I believe that she is, as Philip said, "Good, and honest, and true." I have always liked her and loved the Clark storyline. Now it's become fascinating to watch them interact.