Because I'm Eeeee-viiilllllll: The Villains Thread

[Spartan Girl]

Rest In Peace, Pat Carroll. Ursula was my favorite Disney villain: fabulously nasty and unapologetically campy.

[andromeda331]

On 8/1/2022 at 5:00 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Rest In Peace, Pat Carroll. Ursula was my favorite Disney villain: fabulously nasty and unapologetically campy.

I love that she wasn't the typical "sad" Disney villain. She was happy and enjoyed being a villain.

[Spartan Girl]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I love that she wasn't the typical "sad" Disney villain. She was happy and enjoyed being a villain.

Yup. Hopefully the live action TLM will keep it that way Nobody can replace Pat, but after seeing Melissa McCarthy’s cameo 

Spoiler

as Play!Hela in Love and Thunder

I’m hoping that she’ll camp it up and make it fun like Queen Latifah did in the live concert—it was the better part of that whole show.

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I love that she wasn't the typical "sad" Disney villain. She was happy and enjoyed being a villain.

Eh? None of the Disney villains were ever "sad" that I can recall. I just know that Maleficent was my favorite. And then Ursula.

Oh, and I'magonna say it again like I did when this thread was created:

JAWS was EVIIIIIILLLLL!!!! The way he went after Quint and happily chomped, chomped and ate him in pieces is PROOF!

Edited August 3, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Wiendish Fitch]

55 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Eh? None of the Disney villains were ever "sad" that I can recall. I just know that Maleficent was my favorite. And then Ursula.

Correction: the animated Disney villains weren't sad, but those fucking live-action remakes (and, indeed, 75% of fiction these days) insist on giving them tragic backstories or whatever, because heaven forbid anyone just be evil for the hell of it (FFS, I don't want to sympathize with Cruella deVil!)

I adore (animated) Ursula for the same reasons I adore the somewhat maligned Evil Queen from Snow White: she's competent, is on a mission, dares to get her hands dirty when her evil plans aren't going smoothly... and she comes thisclose to winning over the good guys at the end!

RIP, Pat Carroll, you fabulous icon. 

And can we give it up for Jodi Benson's delightfully wicked performance as "Vanessa"?? Oh, to have that much fun!

Edited August 3, 2022 by Wiendish Fitch

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Correction: the animated Disney villains weren't sad, but those fucking live-action remakes insist on giving them tragic backstories or whatever, because heaven forbid anyone just be evil for the hell of it (FFS, I don't want to sympathize with Cruella deVil!)

Oh, right. This is why I don't watch the live versions. I think I only watched Beauty and the Beast and I hated it.

[Spartan Girl]

58 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

And can we give it up for Jodi Benson's delightfully wicked performance as "Vanessa"?? Oh, to have that much fun!

You could tell she was loving it.

I love that Max was the only one who initially knew “Vanessa” was evil, just like he knew that Ariel was the true rescuer. Always trust the dog.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Spartan Girl]

On a related note, it’s interesting that the original fairy tale of The Little Mermaid didn’t have a villain at all. The sea witch wasn’t evil: she only took her voice (i.e. cut out her tongue) because the spell to become human required a price. And yeah, the spell itself was arguably sadistic because the mermaid would feel like she was walking on knives for the rest of her life but again, that was the price.

Even the rival Princess that the prince marries at the end wasn’t evil. Sure, she wasn’t the one that technically pulled the prince to shore, but she did nurse him back to health so it’s not like she doesn’t deserve credit for her part in saving his life. Blending the sea witch and the princess together as one was all Disney, and it does pose an interesting question about how stories sometimes need villains for there to be heroes.

[Fool to cry]

I suddenly realized the reason we like villains isn't so much that they're evil, is that they always lose. No matter how hard they try and and how much they want it they never get their way and I think we can all identify with that!

[proserpina65]

On 12/4/2022 at 1:35 PM, Fool to cry said:

I suddenly realized the reason we like villains isn't so much that they're evil, is that they always lose. No matter how hard they try and and how much they want it they never get their way and I think we can all identify with that!

Eh, that's not why I like the villains I like.  I actually want those villains to win.  To be fair, however, they're usually played by Alan Rickman, so . . . . 

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 12/4/2022 at 1:35 PM, Fool to cry said:

I suddenly realized the reason we like villains isn't so much that they're evil, is that they always lose. No matter how hard they try and and how much they want it they never get their way and I think we can all identify with that!

I don't and have never liked any villains. And they don't always lose. The only "villains" I've liked, have been the dinosaurs in the Jurassic films. Of course, I don't consider them the villains. That would be the hoomans.🤣

Queenie for the WIN! Amirite or amirite? I know @theredhead77 is with me on this one!

[andromeda331]

Madame Medusa from the Rescuers-Wow, I forgot how horrible she is. Keeps forcing poor orphan Penny down a hole into a dangerous cave for a diamond the last time she takes her beloved stuffed animal Teddy. Penny, Bianca and Bernard almost drown. Telling Penny how no one will ever adopt her. Pointing a gun at her to shoot her. The scary thing is how is how many real orphans get treated the same or worse. She's like Lady Tremayne, they have no magic powers but still scary and evil. So happy Penny got adopted at the ended.

[Blergh]

On 12/16/2022 at 12:56 AM, andromeda331 said:

Madame Medusa from the Rescuers-Wow, I forgot how horrible she is. Keeps forcing poor orphan Penny down a hole into a dangerous cave for a diamond the last time she takes her beloved stuffed animal Teddy. Penny, Bianca and Bernard almost drown. Telling Penny how no one will ever adopt her. Pointing a gun at her to shoot her. The scary thing is how is how many real orphans get treated the same or worse. She's like Lady Tremayne, they have no magic powers but still scary and evil. So happy Penny got adopted at the ended.

YEESH! She's WORSE than Lady [cough]Tremayne! The Wicked Stepmother had cheated Cinderella out of her rightful inheritance and kept her a slave then locked her up to  try to continue keeping her  a slave instead of letting Cinderella take her chances with Prince Charming. HOWEVER, the Wicked Stepmother didn't actually try to MURDER Cinderella (though I somehow am not certain about whether she may have hastened one or both of her late husbands' ends).

[Wiendish Fitch]

Speaking of the Rescuers franchise, how about one Percival C. McLeach from The Rescuers Down Under? A heartless, vicious poacher who isn't above child abduction and attempted murder, all so he can capture and kill an endangered eagle? FFS, he demands his pet goanna (named Joanna, lol) eat Marahute's eggs, just to finish the job! If this movie took place in the last 15 years, you know McLeach would be one of those assholes who post selfies with their latest kill on social media! 

The thing that makes McLeach most memorable is that he was voiced by George C. Scott, who sounded like he was having the time of his life. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Wiendish Fitch

[Blergh]

22 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Speaking of the Rescuers franchise, how about one Percival C. McLeach from The Rescuers Down Under? A heartless, vicious poacher who isn't above child abduction and attempted murder, all so he can capture and kill an endangered eagle? FFS, he demands his pet goanna (named Joanna, lol) eat Marahute's eggs, just to finish the job! If this movie took place in the last 15 years, you know McLeach would be one of those assholes who post selfies with their latest kill on social media! 

The thing that makes McLeach most memorable is that he was voiced by George C. Scott, who sounded like he was having the time of his life. 

Agreed! And let's not overlook that he deliberately let a young boy's widowed mother think that her child had DIED (and this wasn't rectified by the movie's close)!

Mr. Scott definitely seemed to revel in vocalizing such a cruel, hateful creep but let's keep in mind what his most famous ex Colleen Dewhurst summarized about him, " Brilliant actor. Alcoholic. Wife-beater. Any other questions?"

Still, thankfully neither Rescuer movie attempted to try to pretend their villains were good, misunderstood folks who weren't actually trying to harm their victims!

Edited December 18, 2022 by Blergh

[Spartan Girl]

I’m really sick of people rewriting Home Alone as “a budding psychopath torturing nonviolent criminals.”

You can’t gloss over Harry and Marv as “nonviolent criminals.” They were creeps who broke into people’s houses and stole from them during the holidays. They probably caused some damage too, thanks to Marv’s calling card of turning on all the faucets. And even if they hadn’t initially planned to hurt Kevin, they were more than happy to terrorize him before he turned the tables on them.

Let’s not forget that in the sequel, they had no qualms about stealing donations going to needy children on Christmas Eve.

But sure, let’s ignore than judge Kevin for taking a little too much pleasure in giving them their just desserts. 🙄

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m really sick of people rewriting Home Alone as “a budding psychopath torturing nonviolent criminals.”

While we're on the subject of selective editing:

 

[kiddo82]

7 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m really sick of people rewriting Home Alone as “a budding psychopath torturing nonviolent criminals.”

You can’t gloss over Harry and Marv as “nonviolent criminals.” They were creeps who broke into people’s houses and stole from them during the holidays. They probably caused some damage too, thanks to Marv’s calling card of turning on all the faucets. And even if they hadn’t initially planned to hurt Kevin, they were more than happy to terrorize him before he turned the tables on them.

Let’s not forget that in the sequel, they had no qualms about stealing donations going to needy children on Christmas Eve.

But sure, let’s ignore than judge Kevin for taking a little too much pleasure in giving them their just desserts. 🙄

Yes, Marv and Harry are straight up criminals and yes, they do deserve to be brought to justice, but if this was real life I think we'd be a little bothered by this kid's reactions.  Kevin is not the villain of Home Alone, and I admittedly scoffed when I first heard the Jigsaw parallels, but you know what?  I kind of see it even if I think that's an extreme take. I initially heard that as a joke and was like "That's ridiculous."  But the more I thought about it the more I was like "Waaaaaait a minute."   It's not unfair to say that joke has truth to it.  The best jokes do.  I actually had a similar thought when I was watching the Disney animated Peter Pan over the summer.  When you watch it back, Peter is kind of a sadistic creep.  (definitely not the only part of that movie that hasn't aged well, believe you me.)  Given the light that's been shown on police brutality and vigilantism over the past decade or so I think this is understandable.  It may seem silly to compare the real world to freaking Home Alone but real world issues are how we view and critique media, and movies aimed towards kids shouldn't be immune.  Don't get me wrong, I am not one to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  This is a 30 year old ultimately harmless movie that people still adore.  I still enjoy it.  There is nothing wrong with that.  But it is fair to say that certain aspects don't hold up with perspective even if that doesn't dampen one's overall enjoyment of the film.  Both things can be true.  Not to mention the fact that Marv and Harry would have suffered life altering injuries from those initial falls on the icy steps that there is no way they would have even made it into the murder house in the first place. 

And no, I'm not fun at parties.  I seldom get invited for some reason.  Why do you ask?  

Edited December 18, 2022 by kiddo82

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m really sick of people rewriting Home Alone as “a budding psychopath torturing nonviolent criminals.”

You can’t gloss over Harry and Marv as “nonviolent criminals.” They were creeps who broke into people’s houses and stole from them during the holidays. They probably caused some damage too, thanks to Marv’s calling card of turning on all the faucets. And even if they hadn’t initially planned to hurt Kevin, they were more than happy to terrorize him before he turned the tables on them.

Let’s not forget that in the sequel, they had no qualms about stealing donations going to needy children on Christmas Eve.

But sure, let’s ignore than judge Kevin for taking a little too much pleasure in giving them their just desserts. 🙄

Same here. They got what they deserved. I'm also not sure why Harry was so hell bent on robbing Kevin's house sure it's an expensive house but after seeing the inside, what was he after? A bunch of TVs and maybe expensive jewelry. I'm sure there are other houses with a lot more expensive stuff in it. They were really terrible robbers.

[Spartan Girl]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Same here. They got what they deserved. I'm also not sure why Harry was so hell bent on robbing Kevin's house sure it's an expensive house but after seeing the inside, what was he after? A bunch of TVs and maybe expensive jewelry. I'm sure there are other houses with a lot more expensive stuff in it. They were really terrible robbers.

Harry really could have displayed some standards by deciding, “You know what, it’s one house, I’m not messing with a kid.” But no. Bottom line: they fucked around and found out.

[Blergh]

Does anyone truly believe that robbing  the McCallister home of its valuables, flooding it out and yelling at Kevin was ALL Marv and Harry intended to do? Even the dumbest petty criminals don't want to chance ANY known living witnesses squealing on them. Hence, at the very least, I think their plan was to kidnap Kevin -if not permanently silent him (and I don't mean putting their index fingers over their own lips and going 'SHHH!' to him).

Well, at least the movie series didn't try to attempt to throw them pity parties.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

13 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

Yes, Marv and Harry are straight up criminals and yes, they do deserve to be brought to justice, but if this was real life I think we'd be a little bothered by this kid's reactions.

Alternately, you could put Marv and Harry on a par with Iosef Tarasov from John Wick. The difference between Home Alone and John Wick is that the violence in the former is played like a Road Runner cartoon and the violence in the latter is stylized and almost balletic, but the brush fire of mayhem only gets started because Iosef was an idiot who also fucked around and found out. We root for his death and cheer when it happens, but why? Because there's no such thing as just a dog. Would we apply that standard less in real life over an animal but not a kid?

[kiddo82]

I've never seen a John Wick movie so I can't really comment on that.  And it's not that I don't like revenge fantasies in general.  There are plenty of things that happen on television and movies that are real world wrong that I can compartmentalize and still enjoy.  But Kevin kind of is a budding sociopath.  Marv and Harry are criminals that I don't have much sympathy for.  It is just a silly movie.  All these things are allowed to be true.  

Edited December 18, 2022 by kiddo82

[Wiendish Fitch]

18 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m really sick of people rewriting Home Alone as “a budding psychopath torturing nonviolent criminals.”

You can’t gloss over Harry and Marv as “nonviolent criminals.” They were creeps who broke into people’s houses and stole from them during the holidays. They probably caused some damage too, thanks to Marv’s calling card of turning on all the faucets. And even if they hadn’t initially planned to hurt Kevin, they were more than happy to terrorize him before he turned the tables on them.

Let’s not forget that in the sequel, they had no qualms about stealing donations going to needy children on Christmas Eve.

But sure, let’s ignore than judge Kevin for taking a little too much pleasure in giving them their just desserts. 🙄

I hate that attitude as well, Spartan Girl. And to those who say "well, the McCallisters were rich assholes"... okay, fine, my hands aren't clean, and, without getting specific, I could ramble on all day about "rich assholes" I love to bitch about. Still, one must have a care with this attitude, because wealth and privilege are relative. To someone else, I am a rich asshole, and I sure don't want someone to break into my house and steal my stuff!

The McCallisters' financial situation is ultimately immaterial to me. The enduring appeal of the first two Home Alone movies* is that kids generally feel powerless... because they are. They're smaller, weaker, less worldly than adults. They have no money, they can't drive or vote, they have strict rules they have to follow until a certain point (I can't even remember how old I was when I no longer had a "bedtime"). So Kevin sticking it to a couple of criminals who think they can invade his home and terrorize him just because he's a kid? That's empowering to a child, even if it is unrealistic (and they should never try it in real life). Hell, I'd say it's empowering for adults, because some adults are underestimated for one reason or another, and who hasn't wanted to prove they're smarter and more capable than others think?

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

Well, at least the movie series didn't try to attempt to throw them pity parties.

EXACTLY. I don't want to know that Harry's parents were mean to him, or Marv could never get a date. A violent criminal is a violent criminal, end of discussion. They had every intention, in both movies, of either hurting or killing Kevin. 

*Because there weren't any other sequels! Nope, not a one! Two was the magic number, the world doesn't need another Home Alone movie! La la la la...

Edited December 18, 2022 by Wiendish Fitch

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I hate that attitude as well, Spartan Girl. And to those who say "well, the McCallisters were rich assholes"... okay, fine, my hands aren't clean, and, without getting specific, I could ramble on all day about "rich assholes" I love to bitch about. Still, one must have a care with this attitude, because wealth and privilege are relative. To someone else, I am a rich asshole, and I sure don't want someone to break into my house and steal my stuff!

Thank you!

The McAllisters were assholes, but they still wouldn’t deserve getting their house broken into, and Marv and Harry’s other victims sure wouldn’t either. Harry and Marv weren’t exactly just two “down-on-their-luck” schmucks, they were greedy felons.

Plus, like I said before, they stole from a charity in the sequel. On Christmas Eve! They didn’t give a shit who they hurt, rich or poor! 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Stole this from Twitter because I laughed so hard:

[RunningMarket]

On 12/17/2022 at 1:29 PM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

While we're on the subject of selective editing:

 

One of the greatest lines out of the entire Cobra Kai series (which I think is phenomenal), is a random person yelling out during a hearing over the All Valley Tournament as Daniel is speaking, "I thought YOU were the bully!" It was absolutely perfectly delivered, and such a great call out to this theory.

[proserpina65]

On 12/17/2022 at 3:33 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I’m really sick of people rewriting Home Alone as “a budding psychopath torturing nonviolent criminals.”

You can’t gloss over Harry and Marv as “nonviolent criminals.” They were creeps who broke into people’s houses and stole from them during the holidays. They probably caused some damage too, thanks to Marv’s calling card of turning on all the faucets. And even if they hadn’t initially planned to hurt Kevin, they were more than happy to terrorize him before he turned the tables on them.

Let’s not forget that in the sequel, they had no qualms about stealing donations going to needy children on Christmas Eve.

But sure, let’s ignore than judge Kevin for taking a little too much pleasure in giving them their just desserts. 🙄

We can still consider Kevin a budding psychopath, though, right?  Even if his victims mostly deserved it?

 

[Spartan Girl]

43 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

We can still consider Kevin a budding psychopath, though, right?  Even if his victims mostly deserved it?

 

Well, I’d certainly be concerned about how he’s going to turn out being in that horrible family, if nothing else. 

[Spartan Girl]

Speaking of villains that terrorize children, how about The Trunchbull from Matilda? Quite possibly the worst principal/headmistress ever. What’s truly scary about her isn’t the fact that she hurts kids, it’s that she gets away with it. She throws her students out the window for kicks, and nobody does anything about it. The teachers are too frightened of her, and the parents either don’t know or don’t care.

Hell, she killed Miss Honey’s father, made it look like a suicide, and nobody thought better of it. Arguably even her comeuppance at Matilda’s telekinetic powers doesn’t seem like enough: she basically just runs away and never faces any real punishment for her endless crimes.

[Scarlett45]

On 12/17/2022 at 1:49 AM, Blergh said:

YEESH! She's WORSE than Lady [cough]Tremayne! The Wicked Stepmother had cheated Cinderella out of her rightful inheritance and kept her a slave then locked her up to  try to continue keeping her  a slave instead of letting Cinderella take her chances with Prince Charming. HOWEVER, the Wicked Stepmother didn't actually try to MURDER Cinderella (though I somehow am not certain about whether she may have hastened one or both of her late husbands' ends).

What makes Lady Tremaine so scary is that she does not have magical powers. She’s just an evil bitch. I don’t think she killed her husbands, she’s the type that would suck up to those higher on the social hierarchy than her, and gets her jollies from picking on those who can’t fight back. I don’t think she would expend the effort trying to murder anyone.  

On 12/17/2022 at 9:30 AM, Wiendish Fitch said:

Speaking of the Rescuers franchise, how about one Percival C. McLeach from The Rescuers Down Under? A heartless, vicious poacher who isn't above child abduction and attempted murder, all so he can capture and kill an endangered eagle? FFS, he demands his pet goanna (named Joanna, lol) eat Marahute's eggs, just to finish the job! If this movie took place in the last 15 years, you know McLeach would be one of those assholes who post selfies with their latest kill on social media! 

The thing that makes McLeach most memorable is that he was voiced by George C. Scott, who sounded like he was having the time of his life. 

I always thought McLeach was the 20x great grandson of Frollo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

 

I came into the thread to say, Colonel Miles Quaritch, from The Avatar Series continues to be evil AF.

[JustHereForFood]

20 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

What makes Lady Tremaine so scary is that she does not have magical powers. She’s just an evil bitch. I don’t think she killed her husbands, she’s the type that would suck up to those higher on the social hierarchy than her, and gets her jollies from picking on those who can’t fight back. I don’t think she would expend the effort trying to murder anyone.  

And what is effective is that there are many people like her in the real world, many of us know such people, unlike with murderers or evil sorcerers (at least I think 😉).  

[Spartan Girl]

I finally saw Black Panther: Wakanda Forever and oh lord I’m so sick of the MCU’s villain apologia bullshit. Namor was basically a repeat of Kilmonger: he claims he’s only trying to protect his people, but starting a war against the surface world and trying to murder a teenager because she invented a vibranium tracker that could expose them isn’t exactly noble.

And I’ve already read a bunch of bad takes on the internet blaming Ramonda for her own death by sending Nakia to find Shuri, etc. even worse, some people are still shipping Namor with Shuri—God, the Reylo bullshit never dies, does it? It just finds another fandom incarnation. I’m pretty sure she has no interest in hooking up with the guy who murdered her mother. Sparing his life isn’t going to going to change that.

[Spartan Girl]

Well, say what you want about the new Little Mermaid but they do NOT water down Ursula, thank God almighty.

Spoiler

In fact, I’d argue this version is even more evil because when she takes Ariel’s voice and makes her human, the potion also makes her forget that she needs that kiss in order to stay human. Maybe it’s a pointless twist, but seeing as how Ursula is making doubly sure that she screws over Ariel before her Vanessa last resort, I’ll allow it!

Never doubted you for a second, Melissa McCarthy!

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Well, say what you want about the new Little Mermaid but they do NOT water down Ursula, thank God almighty.

  Reveal spoiler

In fact, I’d argue this version is even more evil because when she takes Ariel’s voice and makes her human, the potion also makes her forget that she needs that kiss in order to stay human. Maybe it’s a pointless twist, but seeing as how Ursula is making doubly sure that she screws over Ariel before her Vanessa last resort, I’ll allow it!

Never doubted you for a second, Melissa McCarthy!

Good.

[Wiendish Fitch]

2003's Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas is so underrated. It's so breezy, high-spirited, and with neat little twists that set it apart from most DreamWorks fare...

Okay, enough yammering, how fucking fabulous is Eris as a villain?? Brilliantly animated (I love how, being the Goddess of Discord, she's never at any point motionless), knows how to get under Sinbad's skin, and is anyone else as jealous as I am at how much fun Michelle Pfeiffer is having voicing her?!

I also like how she's defeated at her own game, but manages to keep her cool (hey, she's a goddess, she'll fight another day).

 

[Spartan Girl]

I was nervous when I heard that Ken was going to be the antagonist in Barbie, but thankfully Gerwig knew what she was doing. This is a case of villain apologia done right: Ken was too dumb to be genuinely evil, he just got caught up in the idea of patriarchy. It wasn’t made clear how the Barbies wound up brainwashed because he brought back his very childish understanding of the patriarchy to Barbie-Land, but it seemed like a WandaVision situation (i.e. it happened on accident but wouldn’t change it back because he thought it gave him and the Kens everything they wanted).

And while his whole relationship with Barbie had shades of Nice Guy, I’m willing to give him credit because he was literally created to be Barbie’s boyfriend, only for her to neither want nor need a boyfriend. Reminds me of a Gone Girl quote: “Can you imagine finding your soulmate only to find out that he doesn’t even like you?” So yeah, I couldn’t help feeling for him there. And at least in the end after Kendom is overthrown, he does finally accept that Barbie doesn’t love him and realize he can find his own identity without her with the support of the other Kens instead of all of them constantly competing against each other.

[Wiendish Fitch]

Apologies if I've mentioned this one before, but it bears repeating.

I recently re-watched one of my favorite horror classics Freaks recently (Criterion released a stunning blu-ray edition this month), and, my god, Cleopatra is so thoroughly loathsome and repulsive... and I love the movie for that. We know nothing of her past (good, 'cause I don't care), her motives boil down to pure greed, cruelty and entitlement, and her comeuppance is-*chef's kiss*- poetic justice at its finest. I know modern audiences like to sneer at past movie acting, especially a 90+ year old movie like Freaks, but I think Olga Baclanova's very over-the-top acting enhances the surreal atmosphere of Freaks. Besides, It's not as if Baclanova isn't capable of icy, quiet menace ("He could get sick...").

Fans of the film also know of the cut scene* of what happens to Cleopatra's evil accomplice/lover Hercules, but, alas, it's lost to time.

*Heh heh, "cut scene"...

[Spartan Girl]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:22 AM, Wiendish Fitch said:

Fans of the film also know of the cut scene* of what happens to Cleopatra's evil accomplice/lover Hercules, but, alas, it's lost to time.

*Heh heh, "cut scene"...

Heh heh heh 😉

Yes they were indeed great villains because they were so thoroughly despicable. In fact, I kind of resent how the clip of the circus folk hanging up on them is supposed to be scary just because of the way they look. Uh, no, it is NOT scary, we were fucking cheering them on!

Okay, fine maybe they went a TAD too far. All Hans wanted to do was get the poison for evidence and didn’t want them to get mutilated. Still, as the saying goes, fuck around and find out.

I feel like I should be more mad at Hans for being so quick to dump poor Frida, even though Olga was manipulating the hell out of him. Not implying that he deserved what Olga did to him, but I’m just saying that Frida was more forgiving than I’d be.

Back back to Cleo, you would HATE how The Simpsons spoofed Freaks on their Treehouse of Horror episode. Since Princess Marge the Martyr was playing her, they watered her down from the villain to the unwitting goody-goody she always fucking had to be. Ughhhhhhhh.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Wiendish Fitch]

20 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I feel like I should be more mad at Hans for being so quick to dump poor Frida, even  though Olga was manipulating the hell out of him. Not implying that he deserved what Olga did to him, but I’m just saying that Frida was more forgiving than I’d be.

Back back to Cleo, you would HATE how The Simpsons spoofed Freaks on their Treehouse of Horror episode. Since Princess Marge the Martyr was playing her, they watered her down from the villain too the unwitting goody-goody she always fucking had to be. Ughhhhhhhh.

Yet another reason why I don't regret giving up on The Simpsons a lifetime ago (I'm not even exaggerating... good god, cancel it already!!).

To everyone out there, learn from Hans's mistake: marry someone who loves you, not someone who proves society wrong about you! Marry a person, not a status symbol!

Chris Hargensen from Carrie is tied with Cleopatra as my favorite horror villain. I swear, every time Mr. Fitch and I watch Carrie (we've seen it a ridiculous number of times), when Chris and Billy get their comeuppance, one or both of us utter that immortal line from The Critic: "And nothing of value was lost!"

Edited November 1, 2023 by Wiendish Fitch

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Chris Hargensen from Carrie is tied with Cleopatra as my favorite horror villain. I swear, every time Mr. Fitch and I watch Carrie (we've seen it a ridiculous number of times), when Chris and Billy get their comeuppance, one or both of us utter that immortal line from The Critic: "And nothing of value was lost!"

Don’t forget that bitch Norma too!

While on the subject of horror villains, having watched all the Scream movies so far, I think Billy and Stu were the best Ghostfaces. All the other ones in the sequels were just so…basic. Though I do have a soft spot for Laurie Metcalf’s batshit Mrs. Loomis and Emma Robert’s unapologetically evil Jill.

But Billy takes the top spot because it takes a special kind of asshole to not only kill your girlfriend’s mother then gaslight her about not getting over her grief and trauma fast enough. Instead of, you know, just breaking up with her and saying “Ask your mom why, she’s fucking my dad!”

[Ohiopirate02]

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Don’t forget that bitch Norma too!

While on the subject of horror villains, having watched all the Scream movies so far, I think Billy and Stu were the best Ghostfaces. All the other ones in the sequels were just so…basic. Though I do have a soft spot for Laurie Metcalf’s batshit Mrs. Loomis and Emma Robert’s unapologetically evil Jill.

But Billy takes the top spot because it takes a special kind of asshole to not only kill your girlfriend’s mother then gaslight her about not getting over her grief and trauma fast enough. Instead of, you know, just breaking up with her and saying “Ask your mom why, she’s fucking my dad!”

I stayed away from the Scream franchise after Scream 3.  Between the rather lame long-lost half-brother as a villain out for revenge and the general handling of the character of Maureen, I was out.  The revenge angle never made any sense and why was he still jealous of Sydney after the events of the first two movies.  The only good part in Scream 3  happens in the beginning when Cotton finally dies.  

[andromeda331]

On 11/1/2023 at 3:46 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I stayed away from the Scream franchise after Scream 3.  Between the rather lame long-lost half-brother as a villain out for revenge and the general handling of the character of Maureen, I was out.  The revenge angle never made any sense and why was he still jealous of Sydney after the events of the first two movies.  The only good part in Scream 3  happens in the beginning when Cotton finally dies.  

I felt sorry for Cotton, he finally got his life going after being accused of murder and got murdered. I agree about the villain it was just so lame and boring. I really don't care about him or even get why he wanted revenge against Sidney. I also think it pointlessly undermines Stu and Billy. There's no way those two needed any help in murdering anyone.  Nothing in the movie mattered. The fourth movie was surprisingly good. 

[scarynikki12]

Making Roman the mastermind behind Stu and Billy was a huge mistake but him having more limited involvement could have worked just fine. We know he took Maureen's rejection hard so I can buy him secretly staying in town to be close, discovering her affair with Mr. Loomis, spilling the beans thinking it will break up Billy and Sydney thus hurting Maureen through the child she loves, then skipping town when she's murdered so as not to be a suspect. Fast forward a year and he learns the truth about her murder as well as the Ghostface killings and realizes he's jealous they followed through. He wants to recreate the terror Sydney felt and starts to plan.

If his movie 1 involvement had only been in relation to the Loomis affair being outed that could have been the "third movie will always have a Big Reveal with regard to the first!!!!" thing Randy was going on about. Someone spilled the beans and, while we were probably supposed to think Mrs. Loomis caught them and Billy overheard a fight before she left, it's not hard to imagine the information coming from a third party like Roman. Him being a mustache twirler was when it went too far. 

[Bastet]

On 11/1/2023 at 2:46 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I stayed away from the Scream franchise after Scream 3.

Four and six are both better than three.  I'd rank them: 1, 2, 4, 6, 3, 5.

[Ambrosefolly]

I got to say Mayfair Lipp from Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes was the purest form of evil, along with her shithead mayor dad that has arisen since Dolores Umbridge. Everyone else, I can rationalize their evil in the movie.  Highbottom and Dr. Gaul are borderline cartoon characters who went through a war during their adult life. Archane Crane was anprivileged, sheltered bitch who had been poached in status for the last ten years of her life, but seemed if she became someone trophy wife's, she would only be bugging her servants (but no, I didn't feel too sorry for her when her tribute killed her after she messed with her). Coral, can I blame Coral? She more than likely didn't volunteer as tribute, since it was before monetary reward, placed on a train with rabid bats, literally dumped into a zoo and finds out her "mentor" is an 18 year old's class project when dealing with her literal life and death struggle. No one was coming to her rescue. As for Coriolanus Snow, his family lost the fortune during the war, his father, mother and a baby sister dead. He is raised by his senile bigoted grandmother with only his slightly older cousin as his rock, with barely anything to eat. 

Mayfair on the other hand, grew up considerably well off, albeit, in a very poor district (so unlike Crane, should have a clearer picture on the real struggle of  poverty). She was probably one of the few that didn't have to worry about getting a meal. She is the "other woman" in Lucy Gray's and Billy Taupe's relationship. When this is revealed, she doesn't pull an ending like Brandy's & Monica's "Boy is Mine" music video (if she didn't know) or have shame like Cassie Howard did in Euphoria, but has her father read off her rival's name to send Lucy Gray off to her death. I believe she did this because even though Lucy wanted nothing more to do with Billy, Mayfair couldn't compete with Lucy's sparkle, and Mayfair's nasty personality couldn't compensate for her lack of charisma. So she laughs as she sends this girl to her death, watches while Lucy is nearly killed on national tv. Does she show any remorse for that or by extension, getting Billy Taupe effectively kicked out his family? She instead double downs, tells everyone she is going her mayor daddy and getting everyone hanged and mocks Lucy Gray about how she isn't "all talk" and Lucy's time in the Capitol. That girl was a straight up sociopath, like I watched YouTube videos and people that are were diagnosed as sociopaths and talking about their experience, and she behaves exactly like that. She is way beyond the-stupid-out-of-touch rich person.  

Then we have her asshole dad. I get the feeling that one of the "perks" of being mayor is that your kids name is effectively removed from the reaping, but that asshole is the guy that ruined it for everyone else. Hope he got letters from the rest of the mayors, calling him out for being such a short sighted dumbass, since they probably can't travel there to beat the shit out of him . 

Edited January 6 by Ambrosefolly

[Spartan Girl]

11 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Does she show any remorse for that or by extension, getting Billy Taupe effectively kicked out his family?

Billy Taupe was an asshole all on his own and had nobody to blame but himself for getting kicked out of the Covey, but agree that Mayfair was a bitch.

[Ambrosefolly]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Billy Taupe was an asshole all on his own and had nobody to blame but himself for getting kicked out of the Covey, but agree that Mayfair was a bitch.

Billy Taupe was an asshole, to be sure, but maybe, maybe if Mayfair hadn't pulled that stunt at the Reaping, the Covey wouldn't have disowned him as they did grow up as family. He did seem somewhat remorseful when his actions got Lucy reaped. One things for sure; he wasn't very smart. What kind of dumbass makes District 12's most powerful man's daughter his side piece? If Mayfair's dad wasn't such an indulgent father or a slightly smarter man, it would have been Billy's name, not Jessup or Lucy's name, called. 

Edited January 6 by Ambrosefolly

[Spartan Girl]

I know I’ve already brought up Bill from Kill Bill, but apparently some viewers have the audacity to try and blame everything on Beatrix: “If she told Bill she was pregnant and wanted out instead of running away and letting him think she was dead, it all could’ve been avoided!”

Were these guys even watching the movie? Bill spelled it out himself: he was a murdering bastard that didn’t take rejection well. If she tried to tell him she wanted out, he wouldn’t have let her go. If she tried to hide the fact that it was his baby, he would have killed her. Hell, even the fact that she TOLD him it was his baby didn’t stop him from shooting her in the head.

And for the record, he could have preventing everything from happening by being the gentleman and let her go for real at the infamous wedding rehearsal.

Edited February 16 by Spartan Girl

[Cobalt Stargazer]

"I...overreacted."

You really have to appreciate Carradine and Thurman here, because there's this long pause,  Beatrix waiting for more, but Bill's done, and he spells that out too.

"You overreacted? That's your explanation?"

"I didn't say I was going to explain. I said I was gonna tell you the truth."