S21.E01: I Am Going to Make You A Star

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, preeya said:

Wait until she gets her claws into Carisi. It will likely be replayed over and over unless he (carisi) grows a pair and puts her in her place, but that's probably wishful thinking.

She's already thinks that Carisi's boss is colluding with Moore, and maybe even Carisi has not grown a pair but has lost his original pair that he had when he was with SVU.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

I used to always hate how she used to tell Barba how to do his job. She comes off too much as a vigilante. I get that she is passionate about helping victims of sexual assault and it is even more complex because she was conceived out of that type of violence.  That has to have an effect on a person to know that you are a child of rape.  I wish that the writers would give her better writing.  Olivia was very sympathetic in the early years when she used to bounce off of Stabler who was a hot head. She was more level headed in contrast to Stabler and did not have a problem challenging his opinion. Now it seems that nobody has the right to express an opinion that counters Saint Olivia..

Benson was so much better in the early seasons, I liked her character then, she was very passionate about justice and had flaws but was never treated as some kind of saint, she could be wrong sometimes, and people weren’t afraid to disagree with her and Cragen could reign her in at times. Now no one is allowed to disagree with the almighty St Olivia, she’s always right at all times, she uses her position to push personal agenda’s, and she bullies and browbeats everyone around her. She’s completely unlikable now. 

1 hour ago, preeya said:

Wait until she gets her claws into Carisi. It will likely be replayed over and over unless he (carisi) grows a pair and puts her in her place, but that's probably wishful thinking.

I’m very worried about Carisi turning in to a full blown Benson Bot, he’s used to following her lead and I’m worried he will do the same as an ADA, Benson was already trying to boss him around some last night, I would love if Carisi got fed up with Benson and said to her “I don’t work for you anymore Liv” and stormed off after Benson tried to boss him around, that would be awesome, but I don’t see anyone being allowed to speak to the holy St Olivia that way. So yeah I’m worried that Carisi will be Benson’s lapdog, and I just hope the season doesn’t end with Carisi professing his love for Benson outside the courthouse the way Barba and Stone did.

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

I wish that the writers would give her better writing.  Olivia was very sympathetic in the early years when she used to bounce off of Stabler who was a hot head.

I have mentioned this before, that I don't think it is the writers fault, but the producer's. I think they order the writers to follow a certain template and they try to fill in the gaps. Warren Leight has to take part of the blame for this one.

Edited September 27, 2019 by dttruman

[dttruman]

4 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I would love if Carisi got fed up with Benson and said to her “I don’t work for you anymore Liv” and stormed off after Benson tried to boss him around, that would be awesome, but I don’t see anyone being allowed to speak to the holy St Olivia that way.

Now that Benson is a Capt, do they think that will give her more of a legitimate backing when arguing with the ADA to prosecute cases?

[Fellaway]

Regarding Peter Gallagher, here's an article:

https://www.tvinsider.com/817582/dodds-leaving-law-order-svu-season-21-peter-gallagher/

Mildly spoilerish, so behind a tag...

Spoiler

And he likely will, given what returning showrunner Warren Leight had to say on the matter on the Law & Order: SVUpodcast, Squadroom. "That's partially because he got a pilot [Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist] that went to series," he explained. "He's not gone for good, but he's doing traffic enforcement until that series plays out."

Furthermore, Dodds' exit (for now) opens up the door for a new character: Olivia's new boss. "That'll be an interesting person to meet," Leight teased.

Quote

[tennisgurl]

Remember when this show dealt with things like prostitution, the homeless, child abuse, and had a wide variety of victims and perps? Those were good times, right?

Edited September 27, 2019 by tennisgurl

[dttruman]

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Remember when this show dealt with things like prostitution, the homelessness, child abuse, and had a wide variety of victims and perps? Those were good times, right?

Ahhhh, the Good Old Days!

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Fellaway said:

Regarding Peter Gallagher, here's an article:

https://www.tvinsider.com/817582/dodds-leaving-law-order-svu-season-21-peter-gallagher/

Mildly spoilerish, so behind a tag...

  Reveal spoiler

And he likely will, given what returning showrunner Warren Leight had to say on the matter on the Law & Order: SVUpodcast, Squadroom. "That's partially because he got a pilot [Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist] that went to series," he explained. "He's not gone for good, but he's doing traffic enforcement until that series plays out."

Furthermore, Dodds' exit (for now) opens up the door for a new character: Olivia's new boss. "That'll be an interesting person to meet," Leight teased.

Probably someone powerful that Benson will have her next fling with, which will be in conflict with her family life. Sounds like a whole episode of Benson will be coming up in the near future.

[preeya]

I'm not sure and have no expertise in NYPD policy, but wouldn't a promotion to Captain require passing an exam? Based on what Dodds said to St. Olivia he got her the promotion as part of his transfer "deal."

If true, this sounds mighty fishy to me. Can Frank Regan (the P.C.) appoint her as a captain?

Does anyone know??

[illdoc]

Did Van Buren say something like "They gave it (captain) to someone with lower score & less seniority" which is why she was suing the department when she got passed over? Benson's been a lieutenant for what, 3 or 4 years????

[wknt3]

12 minutes ago, preeya said:

I'm not sure and have no expertise in NYPD policy, but wouldn't a promotion to Captain require passing an exam? Based on what Dodds said to St. Olivia he got her the promotion as part of his transfer "deal."

If true, this sounds mighty fishy to me. Can Frank Regan (the P.C.) appoint her as a captain?

Does anyone know??

Yes it would require passing an exam as it's the last civil service rank in NYPD (Deputy Inspector and above are discretionary appointments and do not require passing a test) And yes it's completely unrealistic, but it's been clearly established that Benson is a special case, which is why FIn had to go back in uniform and deal with all the other mundane rules and regulations while Benson gets to run the squad as a sergeant and gets promotions as part of backroom deals just because. I'm telling you Van Buren needs to come out of retirement just to sue the NYPD again for promoting another unqualified white woman instead of her!

Also Frank Reagan is most definitely not the PC in the L&Overse! I don't want to even imagine what would happen if those two ever met. The self righteousness and grandstanding ego trips from opposite sides of the political spectrum would be like matter and anti-matter and the resulting reaction would consume us all in an explosion of poorly written softly lit platitudes and stares. The horror...

[preeya]

1 minute ago, wknt3 said:

Also Frank Reagan is most definitely not the PC in the L&Overse! I don't want to even imagine what would happen if those two ever met. The self righteousness and grandstanding ego trips from opposite sides of the political spectrum would be like matter and anti-matter and the resulting reaction would consume us all in an explosion of poorly written softly lit platitudes and stares. The horror...

The Regan thing was just a joke. My intent was to ask if the Police Commissioner has the power of appointment, as in this scenario. Based on your previous response, I guess it's a NO.

[SarahPrtr]

5 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

I used to always hate how she used to tell Barba how to do his job. She comes off too much as a vigilante. I get that she is passionate about helping victims of sexual assault and it is even more complex because she was conceived out of that type of violence.  That has to have an effect on a person to know that you are a child of rape.  I wish that the writers would give her better writing.  Olivia was very sympathetic in the early years when she used to bounce off of Stabler who was a hot head. She was more level headed in contrast to Stabler and did not have a problem challenging his opinion. Now it seems that nobody has the right to express an opinion that counters Saint Olivia..

That's exactly it.  I'm all for empathy and compassion for the victims and wish I had some of that when I was going through abuse, but she needs to keep reminding herself that this is NOT about her, but the victims.  I have a father who tried to kill me numerous times when I was younger and almost succeeded most of those times, so believe me, I GET IT.  But I actually know that when I'm taking care of a victim, it's not about me.  I see kids coming into the hospital with broken ribs and arms and bruises and the sight of that would kill any normal person inside, but again, I need to take care of them first, because my FEELINGS don't matter in catching the bad guy.

[HunterHunted]

18 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I thought it was glossed over the fact that Hadid met with Sir Toby and didn’t tell anyone, that shows she can’t be trusted IMO, and I’m wondering if this will set up a storyline where she is forced out and Carisi gets promoted after getting some experience under his belt. 

There probably are completely legitimate reasons why a district attorney might meet with the target of an investigation and their counsel before the investigation is complete. It's possible that the target might give you access to documents in order to clear himself that you never would have had access to or known to look for on your own. If it was someone who had political connections, a formal meeting with the district attorney undercuts the target's ability to use  their political connections to stop the investigation.

Once again, this was another half-baked investigation by Benson and company. They literally did no investigating before they decided to wire Pilar. They never talked to Tobias Moore's assistant (they only talked to her after the other woman sandbagged them), his previous assistants (because you know he's likely had multiple assistants quit), HR for PicFlix, or talked to any industry insiders about him. If Moore was anything like Harvey Weinstein, a lot of people knew he was a problem. So the fact that the SVU went looking for more victims only after Hadid said they didn't have enough to prosecute Moore does not speak well of their investigative abilities. Also Hadid was not wrong. They had nothing.

People like Weinstein, Cosby, and Epstein were sloppy as fuq. There was actually a ton of evidence floating out there. It was a combination of money and power that kept them protected because they weren't master criminals who did a good job of covering their tracks. In fact the way they covered their tracks with money and threats only worked because they were super sloppy criminals. Moore was very much in keeping with that kind of characterization.

In a final bit of superficial criticism, Ian McShane's veneers are awful. They don't fit which you can tell because he's developed a pronounced lishhhp unless it was a bit he was doing for the character.

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, preeya said:

I'm not sure and have no expertise in NYPD policy, but wouldn't a promotion to Captain require passing an exam? Based on what Dodds said to St. Olivia he got her the promotion as part of his transfer "deal."

If true, this sounds mighty fishy to me. Can Frank Regan (the P.C.) appoint her as a captain?

Does anyone know??

2 hours ago, illdoc said:

Did Van Buren say something like "They gave it (captain) to someone with lower score & less seniority" which is why she was suing the department when she got passed over? Benson's been a lieutenant for what, 3 or 4 years????

2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Yes it would require passing an exam as it's the last civil service rank in NYPD (Deputy Inspector and above are discretionary appointments and do not require passing a test) And yes it's completely unrealistic,

I can never see them making Benson a captain, given the numerous times she has broken protocol. That is why I don't think I am watching SVU anymore, but the "Happy Land of Olivia Benson".

Edited September 28, 2019 by dttruman

[dttruman]

36 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

There probably are completely legitimate reasons why a district attorney might meet with the target of an investigation and their counsel before the investigation is complete. It's possible that the target might give you access to documents in order to clear himself that you never would have had access to or known to look for on your own. If it was someone who had political connections, a formal meeting with the district attorney undercuts the target's ability to use  their political connections to stop the investigation.

Is Benson becoming so delusional and paranoid that if a ADA doesn't prosecute a rich person she thinks is the rapist, assailant, or murderer, that she thinks there is a conspiracy?

[Xeliou66]

29 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Is Benson becoming so delusional and paranoid that if a ADA doesn't prosecute a rich person she thinks is the rapist, assailant, or murderer, that she thinks there is a conspiracy?

I think the answer is yes, remember how in last season’s finale she basically accused Stone of not prosecuting Rob Miller because of Miller’s power when Stone told her there wasn’t enough evidence. And Stone was someone she knew well and trusted and she was still willing to basically say he was a shill for Miller. Also, remember when she basically accused Dodds of being in Miller’s pocket in the episode Blackout last season?! That’s twice Benson has basically accused 2 people she knows well of being part of a conspiracy. Benson is fucking nuts, anytime anyone disagrees with her or questions her she acts like they are part of a conspiracy to protect criminals, Benson needs more extensive therapy IMO.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Xeliou66

[spunky]

Carisi is now the ADA. If written correctly this storyline could be interesting. Hopefully Olivia realizes that he no longer works for her and doesn’t try to order him around. This episode seems to be based off of Harvey Weinstein with a sprinkle of Jeffery Epstein. Are the writers sending a Dodds to Staten Island so that he and Olivia can become a thing?

[Fellaway]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And Benson becoming Captain? So what, it won’t change anything

Seriously.  I don't believe the Benson worship of the last three seasons could possibly be exceeded, so what difference does her title make?  She didn't even seem all that surprised or happy at the news, or grateful that Dodds used what little pull he may have left for her benefit, or upset that he coerced the promotion out of the brass, or insulted that that's the way she got it.  Just that little smile.  It all came off as very entitled, and I find it rather insulting that the audience is just supposed to gulp it down like it's delicious.

14 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Benson is the Sonny Corinthos /Victor Newman of Law and Order.

Ye gads.  Sonny Corinthos....  My most hated television character of all time.  I hope the day never comes that I hate Benson like I hate him.  Gah!

14 hours ago, dttruman said:

I thought this could be explained in many ways. She doesn't have to report to SVU on all her comings and goings. We don't know for sure if she was feeding them information.  It was Benson herself who let out information identifying the victim who just came forward. Just after the arrest Benson  mention (I think) the skyline and Sir Toby knew who it was and then got to her right after that.

Maybe I misunderstood it, but I thought the meeting between Moore and Hadid/the other bigwigs happened before that, not long after Pilar was assaulted but before Gemma (I thought she looked familiar.  It was the same actress who played the rape victim in the ep with Kim and the guy's flute.) came forward?  It may not have been out-of-bounds, technically, I don't know, but it sure had the whiff of unethical, especially since she didn't bring it up with the squad.

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

In a final bit of superficial criticism, Ian McShane's veneers are awful. They don't fit which you can tell because he's developed a pronounced lishhhp unless it was a bit he was doing for the character.

I thought I was going crazy!  I've seen Ian McShane in many things and never noticed his teeth looking like that before.  They look like they were tilted forward.  And, yes, he was definitely lisping, too.  I shall choose to believe it was just an affectation for the role.

1 hour ago, spunky said:

Are the writers sending a Dodds to Staten Island so that he and Olivia can become a thing?

That could be an interesting relationship, but, me, I don't understand why Dodds doesn't still blame Benson for Mike's death.  What good cop is going to depend on a civilian's search to determine if there was a gun in the house or not?  I always wondered if Leight would've gone somewhere with that - probably not - but his successors went with the Olivia Benson, our Superhero, Saint and Savior all rolled into one route instead, so there you go.

On another note entirely, what kind of feebs is the NYPD hiring that that uni couldn't pronounce a name as easy as "Tobias"?

Counselor Barth was certainly very sparkly for her new job.

Have we ever had an SVU Bureau Chief before?  All of the previous prosecutors have just been ADAs, I think?

[wanderingstar]

On 9/26/2019 at 10:46 PM, Gigi43 said:

I know unnecessary is this shows jam but turning Judge Barth in to a defence lawyer for Benson to get indignant over seems extra.

This irritated me. Does Olivia need more targets? Yeesh.

[observer]

Didn't understand this part:

Katriana ( Vice undercover policewoman, who presumably received all standard police training) had such swagger and confidence.  When Olivia and Finn approached her with the undercover job, she told them they shouldn't come in so soon, "Let him rough me up a little, rip my blouse...I can handle myself."

And yet from the moment Weinstein wannabe came up behind her, she apparently forgot any training she had, didn't even try one defensive maneuver.  She wasn't being strangled when she was facing the window, why didn't she knee him in the balls when she turned around?  Where were all the nifty martial arts moves?  Her hands were free, why didn't she aim a good punch to those overstated teeth as she turned to face him?

This is only the first episode and already Olivia has caused my eyes to roll back in my head.  SO much reliance on the open mouth school of acting.  And somehow the differences between leading and bullying still elude her.

Dobbs makes it a condition of his exile that she be made captain, and her reply is, "You're a good man."?   Perhaps no one ever has taught Olivia to say thank you.  Where is the gratitude that she apparently gets to circumvent policy and slide into the position without testing?  For that matter where is her vaunted integrity, seems not to be a problem that she is getting preferential treatment.  Shouldn't she be saying she wants to earn the job the same way everyone else does?  Where is the reassurance that she appreciates it and will do her best to be worthy of his confidence?  The fumes of entitlement are overpowering. 

All this IMO, of course.

[CrystalBlue]

On 9/26/2019 at 8:20 PM, dttruman said:

These new changes are very unbelievable. Considering all the stuff that Benson has done wrong, premature arrests for rape, getting Dodd's son killed, having a kid commit suicide because she wanted the kid's mother to press charges, and there are so many more. How the HELL can she be promoted?

The hand waving on this show now rivals that of a very busy air traffic controller.  First thing I thought was Dodds calls Liv a class act now, after what happened with Dodds Jr.?  What the hell was in his drink?

Speaking of what was in that drink, what was in Sir Toby's water bottle?  In the beginning scene where he delivers some performance speech, I though ye Gawds, did Ian McShane always act like this or am I pre-hating his character and judging him accordingly?  And, those... teeth!!

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Maybe I misunderstood it, but I thought the meeting between Moore and Hadid/the other bigwigs happened before that, not long after Pilar was assaulted but before Gemma (I thought she looked familiar.  It was the same actress who played the rape victim in the ep with Kim and the guy's flute.) came forward?  It may not have been out-of-bounds, technically, I don't know, but it sure had the whiff of unethical, especially since she didn't bring it up with the squad.

 To my recollection, after Benson gave Moore and his attorney the clue to whom the unbeknownst rape victim was and Moore remembered whom she (Gemma) was, then he tracked her down paid her off and they made that apology video together. But during that time he also had the couch changed to get rid of the DNA evidence concerning Pilar's attack. Then Hadid made her visit to see Moore and the SVU started speculating about her loyalties. But Hargitay can have the writers make up something later (or at anytime) and say Hadid had a clandestine meeting with Moore to show she is dirty, just to substantiate Benson's paranoia.

[wknt3]

11 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Also Frank Reagan is most definitely not the PC in the L&Overse! I don't want to even imagine what would happen if those two ever met. The self righteousness and grandstanding ego trips from opposite sides of the political spectrum would be like matter and anti-matter and the resulting reaction would consume us all in an explosion of poorly written softly lit platitudes and stares. The horror...

11 hours ago, preeya said:

The Regan thing was just a joke. My intent was to ask if the Police Commissioner has the power of appointment, as in this scenario. Based on your previous response, I guess it's a NO.

Actually it's a HELL NO. And I didn't think the Reagan thing was serious, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to simultaneously snark about the smug self righteousness and ego of Mariska and Tom Selleck.
 

8 hours ago, spunky said:

Carisi is now the ADA. If written correctly this storyline could be interesting. Hopefully Olivia realizes that he no longer works for her and doesn’t try to order him around. This episode seems to be based off of Harvey Weinstein with a sprinkle of Jeffery Epstein. Are the writers sending a Dodds to Staten Island so that he and Olivia can become a thing?

The writers are sending Dodds to Staten Island because Peter Gallagher got a pilot. And considering Benson orders around ADAs who have never been on the squad, why should we expect it to be any different with Carisi?

4 hours ago, observer said:

Didn't understand this part:

Katriana ( Vice undercover policewoman, who presumably received all standard police training) had such swagger and confidence.  When Olivia and Finn approached her with the undercover job, she told them they shouldn't come in so soon, "Let him rough me up a little, rip my blouse...I can handle myself."

And yet from the moment Weinstein wannabe came up behind her, she apparently forgot any training she had, didn't even try one defensive maneuver.  She wasn't being strangled when she was facing the window, why didn't she knee him in the balls when she turned around?  Where were all the nifty martial arts moves?  Her hands were free, why didn't she aim a good punch to those overstated teeth as she turned to face him?

That was actually one of the few realistic parts of the episode. She wanted him to get physical and keep going so they had him dead to rights. She knew she only had to say bastard and her backup would come running. There weren't any moves because their wasn't any need.

Quote

This is only the first episode and already Olivia has caused my eyes to roll back in my head.  SO much reliance on the open mouth school of acting. 

When you can't move the top half of your face you're pretty much forced to rely on your mouth. Honestly the whispering bothers me more - she hasn't botoxed her vocal cords!

[spunky]

7 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Seriously.  I don't believe the Benson worship of the last three seasons could possibly be exceeded, so what difference does her title make?  She didn't even seem all that surprised or happy at the news, or grateful that Dodds used what little pull he may have left for her benefit, or upset that he coerced the promotion out of the brass, or insulted that that's the way she got it.  Just that little smile.  It all came off as very entitled, and I find it rather insulting that the audience is just supposed to gulp it down like it's delicious.

Ye gads.  Sonny Corinthos....  My most hated television character of all time.  I hope the day never comes that I hate Benson like I hate him.  Gah!

Maybe I misunderstood it, but I thought the meeting between Moore and Hadid/the other bigwigs happened before that, not long after Pilar was assaulted but before Gemma (I thought she looked familiar.  It was the same actress who played the rape victim in the ep with Kim and the guy's flute.) came forward?  It may not have been out-of-bounds, technically, I don't know, but it sure had the whiff of unethical, especially since she didn't bring it up with the squad.

I thought I was going crazy!  I've seen Ian McShane in many things and never noticed his teeth looking like that before.  They look like they were tilted forward.  And, yes, he was definitely lisping, too.  I shall choose to believe it was just an affectation for the role.

That could be an interesting relationship, but, me, I don't understand why Dodds doesn't still blame Benson for Mike's death.  What good cop is going to depend on a civilian's search to determine if there was a gun in the house or not?  I always wondered if Leight would've gone somewhere with that - probably not - but his successors went with the Olivia Benson, our Superhero, Saint and Savior all rolled into one route instead, so there you go.

On another note entirely, what kind of feebs is the NYPD hiring that that uni couldn't pronounce a name as easy as "Tobias"?

Counselor Barth was certainly very sparkly for her new job.

Have we ever had an SVU Bureau Chief before?  All of the previous prosecutors have just been ADAs, I think?

I think they’re trying to make it more realistic with the SVU Bureau Chief. I think the name thing was a lame attempt at comedic relief. I’m over the whole Benson is a superhero and super mom arc. 

[spunky]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

Actually it's a HELL NO. And I didn't think the Reagan thing was serious, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to simultaneously snark about the smug self righteousness and ego of Mariska and Tom Selleck.
 

The writers are sending Dodds to Staten Island because Peter Gallagher got a pilot. And considering Benson orders around ADAs who have never been on the squad, why should we expect it to be any different with Carisi?

I’ve stopped watching that Tom Selleck show for so many reasons. I had a sliver of hope that she wouldn’t boss Carisi around. I can definitely see both her and Rollins jumping down his throat with both feet every single episode.

[hookedontv]

Can we trade Rollins out for the Vice Woman? Vice Woman is a badass. 

That is all. 

[wanderingstar]

Carisi being the ADA is...weird. I'm not opposed to it but I can already tell I'm going to be annoyed by Olivia & Co. ragging on him for not just snatching people up when they say to.

The Weinstein-esque story was meh. I guess the one woman (Gemma) coming forward was kind of a twist, but other than that, this was as predictable as this show can get.

[spunky]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

 just hope the season doesn’t end with Carisi professing his love for Benson outside the courthouse the way Barba and Stone did.

If that happens then they need to throw the whole show away.

[observer]

8 hours ago, wknt3 said:

When you can't move the top half of your face you're pretty much forced to rely on your mouth.

Made me laugh!  Also explains the prevalence I see of practitioners of the Open Mouthed School of Acting.

[observer]

10 hours ago, wknt3 said:

15 hours ago, observer said:

Didn't understand this part:

Katriana ( Vice undercover policewoman, who presumably received all standard police training) had such swagger and confidence.  When Olivia and Finn approached her with the undercover job, she told them they shouldn't come in so soon, "Let him rough me up a little, rip my blouse...I can handle myself."

And yet from the moment Weinstein wannabe came up behind her, she apparently forgot any training she had, didn't even try one defensive maneuver.  She wasn't being strangled when she was facing the window, why didn't she knee him in the balls when she turned around?  Where were all the nifty martial arts moves?  Her hands were free, why didn't she aim a good punch to those overstated teeth as she turned to face him?

That was actually one of the few realistic parts of the episode. She wanted him to get physical and keep going so they had him dead to rights. She knew she only had to say bastard and her backup would come running. There weren't any moves because their wasn't any need.

Yep, I get what you are saying.  And she played up that bad ass vibe.  I guess I was projecting that at the point when she really seemed to be fading from the strangulation she was probably unable to speak and would have reacted instinctually.

You know, I am ashamed to say that the people involved in this show must actually have a pulse on what the public wants, because I am amazed that I am again watching (hard to do with constant eye roll back) this infuriating show.  Must be the can't look away from the wreck syndrome.  SOOO glad this forum exists so I can share the horror/humor with you all and read your wonderful commentary.

Quote

But Olivia wasn’t the only one to get a new job. Carisi (Peter Scanavino) also made the move from detective to ADA, undoubtedly altering the SVU dynamics as we know it. Which is pretty much what showrunner Warren Leight was going for.

"Thematically, it's a year about passages and changes. I don't think nobody at the start of the season will be in the same place at the end of the season," he told E! News. "People's titles will change, people's roles in the squad room will change, people's domestic life—turning 21 is a major passage in life, so it should be for the show as well.”

https://www.countryliving.com/life/entertainment/a29271257/law-and-order-svu-season-21-premiere-reactions/

And shout out to those of you who correlate Olivia to Frank Reagan and his clan of Self Righteous Self Congratulors who seem to be able to run the entire New York Police/DA's office all by themselves.  Olivia and trouble prone Noah would be a great addition to the Reagan Sunday dinners.  Here's a plot twist for you:  Olivia marries Danny and by osmosis becomes the second Brooklyn-ese speaking family member.

Edited September 28, 2019 by observer

[Gigglepuff]

On 9/27/2019 at 8:54 AM, nittanycougar said:

The episode was indeed redundant.  One think that struck me is that some of the accusers in the episode closely resembled some of the Weinstein accusers.  Kind of creepy IMO.

I thought Mariska looked beautiful.  As a woman over 40, it is nice seeing a beautiful middle-aged woman on TV!   It seems like most women in this demographic are either ignored by Hollywood or botoxed and fillered beyond recognition.

She's very pretty for sure. She's had excellent work done on her face, not over-tightened and not overly filled. If I had her money, I'd get her surgeon's number!! 

I didn't like the episode at all, lazy, sloppy writing and quite predictable. For the first time in many years, I took it off my PVR. 

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, hookedontv said:

Can we trade Rollins out for the Vice Woman? Vice Woman is a badass. 

That is all. 

I like her because they haven't given her crazy family members yet. I wonder if they will screw her up by the end of the season?

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Carisi being the ADA is...weird. I'm not opposed to it but I can already tell I'm going to be annoyed by Olivia & Co. ragging on him for not just snatching people up when they say to.

That seems to be the one consistent scenario, that I really dislike about the series. When the cops badger, annoy, or (pick any descriptive word you want) the ADA. A lot of the times the cops get it wrong, but the cops don't seem to pay a price for it.

[observer]

Didn't make the connection to this homage.

https://people.com/tv/why-law-order-svu-tackled-harvey-weinstein-head-on-in-its-season-21-premiere/

Quote

Coowoman1021 says:

September 27, 2019 at 10:11 AM

The very first thing I noticed was Gunsmoke playing on the tv in the bar. I knew right away it was a nod to the show that has held the title to the longest running drama up until last night. I thought that was pretty cool and very respectful.!!! I still watch Gunsmoke to this day. One of my favorite westerns I watched as a kid. Can’t wait to see what this new SVU season will bring!! One of my favorite dramas of all time!!

Edited September 28, 2019 by observer

[observer]

Excerpt from interview with writer Warren Leight

Quote

At the of the episode, there is a little bit of reshuffling in the department. What does that mean for the leads characters’ futures?
Well, Peter has another series, so I had to kind of clean that up a little for his sake. He’s been exiled to Staten Island. We’ll be meeting a new chief above Benson in episode three. As a condition of his subjugation, he insisted on her being promoted. So she’s got more juice going into the season. For me, it’s also a way of resetting the show. Obviously, the Carisi move and establishing Vanessa Hadid is a way of resetting. I just wanted to get some fresh blood in there, get some air in the room, rejigger the dynamics. As always, at Law & Order, you have to do that while you’re pushing the story forward.

https://people.com/tv/why-law-order-svu-tackled-harvey-weinstein-head-on-in-its-season-21-premiere/

(scroll down to end of recap in link to see the whole interview)

[dttruman]

17 hours ago, observer said:

Katriana ( Vice undercover policewoman, who presumably received all standard police training) had such swagger and confidence.  When Olivia and Finn approached her with the undercover job, she told them they shouldn't come in so soon, "Let him rough me up a little, rip my blouse...I can handle myself."

If Katriana doesn't work out maybe this cop will work at the :15 mark, the :35 mark, and the :51 mark of the first link

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2003229/videoplayer/vi1595648281?ref_=nm_ov_vi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr8N3xwvonY

Edited September 28, 2019 by dttruman

[dttruman]

16 minutes ago, observer said:

We’ll be meeting a new chief above Benson in episode three. As a condition of his subjugation, he insisted on her being promoted. So she’s got more juice going into the season. For me, it’s also a way of resetting the show. Obviously, the Carisi move and establishing Vanessa Hadid is a way of resetting. I just wanted to get some fresh blood in there, get some air in the room, rejigger the dynamics. As always, at Law & Order, you have to do that while you’re pushing the story forward.

Will it be the new chief or Carisi that professes his love for Benson at the end of this season?

Leight says "As always, at Law & Order, you have to do that while you’re pushing the story forward.". Does he really mean pushing the "Agenda"  forward, considering some of the episodes they put out?
 

[observer]

Thanks for that introduction to Rosa, dttruman.

I am currently composing a scene in my mind where Rosa speaks her mind to Olivia.  I am especially delighted with imagining Olivia's reaction.

Edited September 28, 2019 by observer

[Fellaway]

13 hours ago, dttruman said:

 To my recollection, after Benson gave Moore and his attorney the clue to whom the unbeknownst rape victim was and Moore remembered whom she (Gemma) was, then he tracked her down paid her off and they made that apology video together. But during that time he also had the couch changed to get rid of the DNA evidence concerning Pilar's attack. Then Hadid made her visit to see Moore and the SVU started speculating about her loyalties. But Hargitay can have the writers make up something later (or at anytime) and say Hadid had a clandestine meeting with Moore to show she is dirty, just to substantiate Benson's paranoia.

I remember from the security tapes they watched that Pilar was assaulted late Friday night, and the furniture switching/power meeting took place Monday morning.  It wasn't clear to me where Gemma fit in that timeline.  Ye, gads, do I have to re-watch to find out?  I don't know if I have the gumption.

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

Will it be the new chief or Carisi that professes his love for Benson at the end of this season?
 

I just read an article the other day, talking with a number of former ADAs on the show, and PW said the original intent was to kill him off!  He talked them out of it.

Quote

Winchester: There was a script for the last episode [of Season 20]. The first script I read, we’d prosecuted the cop who was dirty. I walked out on the street and I was talking to Benson and as they were talking I was shot. I was like, “look if I’m leaving the show, let’s leave the show. Let’s go. Let’s shoot him.” Then Mariska and I talked, and the rest of the cast and I talked and said it would be nice to have an opportunity to come back and discuss a very difficult case. It would have been pretty self-evident by where he was shot and the amount of blood. We went right up to the wire with that. I think it came from the top that they weren’t going to shoot Peter Stone.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Fellaway

[Carboncat]

On 9/12/2019 at 12:29 AM, Fellaway said:

I can see the logic in making Carisi the ADA for budgetary reasons.  There could even be some good story beats to it, i.e. Benson adjusting to Carisi being her professional peer now, rather than her subordinate, and vice versa for Carisi.  But I think there's more illogic in it, really.

This far into his NYPD career, Carisi is going to forego his pension and jump ship to a lesser paying job with the DA's office?  Leave us not forget Carisi's big Season 20 storyline, wherein he bought a new car.  Man's got car payments!  And he's going to start right out as SVU's ADA?  Sure.  That would happen.

Not to mention our already ridiculous four person SVU will now be only three persons.  Two of which are a lieutenant and a sergeant, leaving only one detective.  Granted, Rollins can use all the brass they can find to keep her in line, but come on.  Three people?  For all of Manhattan?

If they bring in any new people as a detective, even just recurring or guests, why not use them as ADAs and leave Carisi as a detective?  

Oy, if this happens, I will hate it for no other reason than the cop side of the show has always been the focus on SVU and, for me, the more interesting part.  I am opposed, on moral grounds, to anything that gives Carisi less screentime or less interesting screentime.

I just hope, in a season, season and a half, we don't have Carisi standing, gazing at the courthouse, while telling Benson what a profound impact she's had on his life, she's all the colors in his Crayola box, and it's all been for her, before walking off into the abyss, never to be seen or heard from again.

All that said, I do think we'll have more Carisi this season now that Leight is back (though that would hardly take much after the last three seasons.)  And PS seems pretty jazzed about the current state of affairs, whatever they may be.  I do think this will be a better season than the last three, but if it's as good as I found the original Leight years to be remains to be seen.

Well put.  As an original fan of the Mothership and all it's iterations I'm oooohhhcched. 

Note: I joined Primetimer as a 600 lb life fan, but I've watched Law and Order since beginning in 1989(?).  Loved the fast dialogue  and story driven, not character-driven episodes.  I am old enough to have looked forward to "Dragnet".  I always liked the fast-paced ironic dialog and authentic settings in NYC with real snow and breath clouds.

I guess my favorite was CI.  Really creative and thoughtful.

I remember Ice-T  from his "Hi-Hi Hi Roller" days. "Like walkin' barefoot on broken glass etc...

Not to mention the irony of him playing a police officer.  We (my husband and me) are die-hard Fin and Carrisi fans.  We are from Morristown, live in California, but love the authentic scenes.

MH (with Stabler) used to have a healthy scepticism.  I work in Facilities (I am NOT a counselor) for a mental- health non-profit.  I Totally get domestic violence, immigrant issues etc.  We are also a non-white family that raised children since 1991.  That said I always loved Jerry Orbach's deliciously anti-PC quips.

Trying to get behind latest episides, but it is annoying.  Noah is a spoiled brat.  I like Kelli Giddish as an actress, but her character is a mess.  She should have been fired over the Declan/gambling /murder(?)  It's icky.

One of the things I used to like about original L&O and all its spinoffs was the ambiguity and (I'm Catholic) it's reflection on the human condition, it's sins and strengths.  (Of course all fellow humans can reflect on this as well, I'm only speaking for me.)

But COME ON…. let's have a little snark in these dark times!  And this latest Harvey Weinstein referenced episode really disappointed.  Yes these actresses were exploited but what does that really have to do with the rest of us except that we are supposed to nod in sympathetic agreement.  

As much as I want Law and Order on 24/7 when I have insomnia, this has outlived it's purpose.

[WendyCR72]

28 minutes ago, Carboncat said:

Note: I joined Primetimer as a 600 lb life fan, but I've watched Law and Order since beginning in 1989(?).  Loved the fast dialogue  and story driven, not character-driven episodes.  I am old enough to have looked forward to "Dragnet".  I always liked the fast-paced ironic dialog and authentic settings in NYC with real snow and breath clouds.

I guess my favorite was CI.  Really creative and thoughtful.

Welcome! 🙂 My favorite was also CI. There is a thread for that one, too, if you are ever interested.

As for the franchise as a whole, I, of course, loved the Mothership, too. As you say, the show had moments that made you think. Or maybe reassess something from another POV.

As I majored in English, and it being chock full of symbolism and such, I think it's what set CI apart from the Mothership, being more cerebral, I guess.

Early on? I also liked SVU. As with CI, it once added a bit of humor with its dark themes, in no small part thanks to John Munch, who is missed! But I think this show became too serious and full of itself at least five seasons ago. It is draped in misery and Olivia's sanctimony. I guess I hope for better days, which is why I'm here, but - my POV only - I think this should wrap up this year.

In any case, have fun. And, again, welcome to the zoo!  😜

[853fisher]

Thanks to those who pointed out the intent of the "Gunsmoke" homage.  I recognized Miss Kitty but didn't make the connection and was wondering what the pan over that screen in the bar added.

I know I'm unusually pedantic, but did anyone notice the location card for "Baynard Rustin Homes"?  The man was Bayard.  Come on, show.

[Corvino]

3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

As I majored in English, and it being chock full of symbolism and such,

So, besides a CI fan, a "Urinetown" fan?

[WendyCR72]

2 minutes ago, Corvino said:

So, besides a CI fan, a "Urinetown" fan?

Okay, this, I don't get? (I do realize "urinetown" sounds like "you're in town", but beyond that? Drawing a blank!)

[Corvino]

Dear Wendy: Sorry about that. It was just a case of independent genius, then. In the musical "Urinetown", the world-weary cop is trying to explain the premise of the show to the wide-eyed moppet who shares the opening number with him. He's hinting at the nature of Urinetown, The Place (as opposed to "Urinetown", The Musical"), and he says "Let's just say that it's chock full of...symbolism... things like that." I thought you were applying this to the spirit of the English major (which you were, but without quoting).

[wknt3]

On 9/28/2019 at 9:22 PM, Carboncat said:

MH (with Stabler) used to have a healthy scepticism.

That's because Benson used to be an investigator who sometimes advocated on behalf of victims when circumstances called for it, instead of an advocate who sometimes investigated when her bosses and the courts demanded.
 

Quote

One of the things I used to like about original L&O and all its spinoffs was the ambiguity and (I'm Catholic) it's reflection on the human condition, it's sins and strengths.  (Of course all fellow humans can reflect on this as well, I'm only speaking for me.)

I really miss ambiguity and nuance as well. Where Gunsmoke started in black and white and switched to color, SVU has done the reverse.

On 9/28/2019 at 9:56 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Early on? I also liked SVU. As with CI, it once added a bit of humor with its dark themes, in no small part thanks to John Munch, who is missed! But I think this show became too serious and full of itself at least five seasons ago. It is draped in misery and Olivia's sanctimony. I guess I hope for better days, which is why I'm here, but - my POV only - I think this should wrap up this year.

Co-signed, although I will add that Stabler is too often ignored when we discuss the way the series has lost so much of it's humor that used to help balance out the darkness and keep the show from getting too full of itself. Meloni is a brilliant comic actor and could go from action to comedy to drama seamlessly. Mariska either can't or won't do it, perhaps because those comic scenes often required a bit of subtlety and reacting to others instead of being the center of attention. When he left at the same time the network overreacted to the overly campy monkey in a basketball later Baer years by pushing the show to go all grimdark it was like the writers forgot how to write those little comic palette cleansers and that Belzer and Ice-T could do comedy and not just snarky quips.

Edited September 30, 2019 by wknt3
typo

[observer]

54 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

...could go from action to comedy to drama seamlessly. Mariska either can't or won't do it, perhaps because those comic scenes often required a bit of subllety and reacting to others instead of being the center of attention.  (bolding mine)

Spot on, great observation.  The Open Mouthed and Hoarse Whispering School of Acting training is very limited.  Had not considered the nuance of her inability to bring the humor.

[spunky]

22 hours ago, observer said:

Thanks for that introduction to Rosa, dttruman.

I am currently composing a scene in my mind where Rosa speaks her mind to Olivia.  I am especially delighted with imagining Olivia's reaction.

Olivia’s best partner was Amaro, before the writers ruined him. He had no issue calling her out in the beginning. 

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, Corvino said:

Dear Wendy: Sorry about that. It was just a case of independent genius, then. In the musical "Urinetown", the world-weary cop is trying to explain the premise of the show to the wide-eyed moppet who shares the opening number with him. He's hinting at the nature of Urinetown, The Place (as opposed to "Urinetown", The Musical"), and he says "Let's just say that it's chock full of...symbolism... things like that." I thought you were applying this to the spirit of the English major (which you were, but without quoting).

Ah, gotcha!  🙂 No harm, no foul, @Corvino!