S03.E06: Household

[Kel Varnsen]

12 hours ago, BrindaWalsh said:

Okay that interview is messed up.

A random question - if so many children were taken from their parents and distributed to the SOJ couples, why did Stabler get 6 kids and the Waterfords, who started out as really high up there, get none?  

Maybe once the Gilead power grab ball started rolling the rest of the leadership realized that Fred is a huge asshole, even by Gilead standards.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Kel Varnsen

[Joana]

You know who else would be "fascinated" by a masculine gay man, in 2019? Aunt Lydia. I think I preferred her when she was a character on the show, not the writer. 

Next episode: Emily puts on a lipstick and it's lauded as a deeply nuanced portrayal.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Joana

[ferjy]

16 hours ago, Miles said:

That would mean that they would have their teeth apart constantly, like you would when you you normally open your mouth. Your teeth are in betwenn your tounge and your lips afterall.

it doesn't look like that is the case. You'd see it. Also they would probably bite off their tounges in their sleep if that was the case.

So again, removing the front teeth is the only way possible to pierce the lips and the tounge with the same rings.

Sorry, I would have put in a sarcasm smiley if there was one. I was trying to make a (further) point that the writers haven't thought this out at all and would be scrambling for excuses. They already haven't considered that the handmaids would suffer all kinds of injuries with those rings clamped to their mouths so I wouldn't put it past them to try explain to us how the tongues are also pierced.

Wouldn't it be such fun to go head to head with these guys asking them all these questions. Oh the joy in seeing them flail in front of your face! These interviewers are letting them off easy. We need Oprah to have a crack at them.

Edited July 3, 2019 by ferjy
Fighting autocorrect.

[wirebitersm]

I think Gileads military would be less because of food issues and fuel issues. How many refineries are in their control? How many oil fields? 

[ferjy]

18 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Just wanted to leave this in here since it covers this episode and some of the specific issues we’ve had. 

The Handmaid's Tale EPs Answer Our Burning Episode 6 Questions (Rings! Winslow! Marthas! Nick?!?)

“...particularly in Chris [Meloni], who’s so masculine...”

Good God, he did NOT actually say that! These guys have got to be having us on. 

[DrSparkles]

On 6/27/2019 at 3:53 PM, Umbelina said:

Oh I agree.  I'm in it for the duration of this season at least though.

If my guess is correct, Switzerland/Canada are just playing Gilead for a peek inside their power structure, which I'm HOPING means that WE will get a peek as well, and/or that this means the "world" is united with wanting Gilead to end.

If not, fuck them all to hell, in spite of the excellent acting and lovely camera work?  I'm done too.

IF they manage to show us next episode that this was all a sham, and stop the cock teasing with Nick and actually begin to show us him spying (for the world, for what is left of the USA, for the UK, or hell, for anyone?)  I will stay in.

I'm sick of coitus-interruptus with this show.  Show us the damn world reaction, show us the actual revolution, show us the USA side of things, or I'm out.

Unlike some, I don't really care about the individual stories of handmaids/escapees/children at this point.  Those points have been made for long enough.  WE GET IT!  There was absolutely no need whatsoever in having the ridiculous rings in the mouths of handmaids, who obviously could not function that way.  Stupid shock value torture has been demonstrated enough, and that was frankly, utter nonsense, for reasons already mentioned.  Eating?  Pregnancy morning sickness?  Mouth health which can lead to major other health issues?  BULLSHIT, EXPLOITATIVE NONSENSE. 

I'm thrilled we have such fine actors on this show, but I'm not here just for that.  I'm here, or have been here, for answers to the questions the book left out, a book I read decades ago when it was first published.

I want to know what brings Gilead down, how long did it take, what was the world doing in the meantime, and yes, whether or not June

  Hide contents

actually got out or was it only her tapes? 

I'm OVER the people in Canada doing nothing to help Gilead, it's more bullshit, and completely unrealistic.  It is frankly, the only thing I actually care about.  While adjustment stories are nice and all, I, for at least one, am sick of absolutely no world interaction! 

Why did Luke harangue the relatively powerless Canadian government?  He has the WORLD at his fingertips!  Why isn't he in contact with the USA?  Why isn't his plea for his wife and daughter all over TV in every country in the world?

WHY isn't Moira telling or selling her story?  SEX SELLS.  She was a SEX slave in pious Gilead for God's sake!  She could have all the press she wanted to help expose Gilead and rally support for the US resisters and for the trapped handmaids and children.  Oprah would be on that in an instant!  It's utter nonsense that the writers have avoided the entire topic of the "world" reaction, and now to bring in "Swiss negotiators" to send a girl child back to this hell?

It ONLY makes sense if the Swiss are simply operating a spy mission to "get a peek inside the power structure" of Gilead, for a proposed attack or assassinations or for the best ways to support the rebels?  Because sanctions already exist.  If they are honestly playing that the Swiss and Canadians are even considering sending Holly back (which I honestly doubt, but then again I've lost most of my trust in these writers/showrunner.) then oh hell no, I'm done too.

I see this as endless delaying to keep the show running.  They don't WANT to address how the system works (too hard, more closeups on all the actors instead, more horror, more bait and switch) let alone on the world reaction (I doubt they have a clue, and it shows.)

OK, rant over, for now.

It's not about the actors, it's about the story.  They don't have one, and it shows.  Well, they can do all the personal relationships stuff, but I DO NOT CARE if they aren't addressing the entire reason I was looking forward to this show.

ANSWERS.

PREACH!!!

[JasonCC]

I found the headless Lincoln Memorial chilling, actually. The episode itself was all visual for the sake of plot-of-the-moment and too many incoherent retcons. 

The headless Lincoln would have also made more sense had they kept the viewpoint from the book that Gilead was also a racial Apartheid State and had successfully implemented the Children of Ham Relocation Project.

[lucindabelle]

On 7/1/2019 at 5:38 AM, Ceindreadh said:

Luke had a Walkman because it was the easiest way to listen to the tape June made. 

June made a tape rather than an mp3 or other audio file because she had access to a tape recorder and a supply of recordable tapes but no access to a computer. 

There may well not be ipods in Canada, but Luke using a Walkman isn’t proof one way or the other. 

That makes sense though in 2019 anyway it’s not as if Walkman are hanging around for the taking... maybe if they’d shown him trying to find one. It makes more sense for the Lawrences to have a cassette deck in basement than it does for refugee Luke to have a Walkman.

Among other things the mouth rings look like evil teeth and spoil the woman’s looks. So unless we’re to believe there’s no dc equivalent of jezebels it’s hard to credit commanders with wanting this. That handmaid was really pretty. 

[Violetgoblin6]

On 6/27/2019 at 9:32 PM, Miles said:

It was pretty good style though, I have to give them that. I had a little nerdgasm, when the little blob of teal walked into frame behind June, while she was lookind at the statue of Lincoln. Such great camera work / directing. In genernal there were some gorgeous shots this episode.

Doesn't make up for the dumpsterfire that was this script though.

Me too. It was beautiful.

I completely agree with everyone. I was bored to tears and rolled my eyes several times. The world building needs help. 

Huge ring on mouth lunacy.

So many plot holes. 

[jackjill89]

OK -- forgive me for 1) being late to the party for this episode -- I just watched it and 2) not reading every post so I'm sorry if this has been mentioned, however I had to post because this episode really pissed me off. I am usually really good about suspending my disbelief and just enjoying a show for the sake of the show. I let a lot of stuff go. I just couldn't this time. Now, maybe I've missed something and there are good explanations, but I feel like there was some major retconning going on and it's really bothering me.

First of all... I thought Fred and his merry band of commanders created Gilead and were the commanders of Gilead. So, what's the deal with this HIGH commander in DC? What the heck? If there is a high commander, why aren't the commanders who have formed Gilead going to DC more often?  Makes no sense. However, the imagery in DC was really stunning -- the cross the Lincoln Memorial. If the capital of Gilead is DC and the people we've been introduced to are the leaders of Gilead why aren't they in DC? I'm confused.

If DC is the capital and they are the leaders, why haven't any of the handmaids in the Gilead we see had their mouths shut as punishment? Hmmm.

Also... Gilead is Gilead is Gilead? Is everywhere in the former US Gilead? No towns? 

Re: Nick. There is no way Nick was some army general, then a driver, then a commander. Nope. Nick never told June about his past as a central figure to the creation of Gilead because he wasn't a central figure. It makes no sense. If he had been that instrumental, he would have been made a commander right away. He may have been a spy or soldier, but he wasn't a higher up -- no way. He wouldn't have become a driver otherwise. This was a total story-driven retcon. I'm not buying what they are trying to sell right now. 

Arghhh. Thank you for letting me get this off my chest. It really irritated me, and it takes a lot to irritate me. 

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

First of all... I thought Fred and his merry band of commanders created Gilead and were the commanders of Gilead. So, what's the deal with this HIGH commander in DC? What the heck? If there is a high commander, why aren't the commanders who have formed Gilead going to DC more often?  Makes no sense. However, the imagery in DC was really stunning -- the cross the Lincoln Memorial. If the capital of Gilead is DC and the people we've been introduced to are the leaders of Gilead why aren't they in DC? I'm confused.

They call all the men in charge "Commanders" which is a bit stupid, unless you think of it as "Officers."  For example, everyone in say, the current Army above the rank of Sargent is an "officer" but obviously not all the same rank.

Gilead is huge, the entire continental USA, see the map in the spoiler thread for areas held by rebels/loyalists to the USA here: 

A tiny bit of hope on the horizon was the Swiss asking the same questions you are.  "The Command structure here is a black hole to us."

Quote

If DC is the capital and they are the leaders, why haven't any of the handmaids in the Gilead we see had their mouths shut as punishment? Hmmm.

Why don't women in Omaha wear designer fashions and 5 inch heels every day like many women in NYC do?  It's a big country, with different customs in each area.  Power centers like DC have very little in common with logging towns in Oregon, or ranching towns in Texas, etc.

Quote

Also... Gilead is Gilead is Gilead? Is everywhere in the former US Gilead? No towns? 

Gilead has "districts."  Everywhere in the USA is still the USA today, so someone from, say Utah, but they are still from the USA as well.

Quote

Re: Nick. There is no way Nick was some army general, then a driver, then a commander. Nope. Nick never told June about his past as a central figure to the creation of Gilead because he wasn't a central figure. It makes no sense. If he had been that instrumental, he would have been made a commander right away. He may have been a spy or soldier, but he wasn't a higher up -- no way. He wouldn't have become a driver otherwise. This was a total story-driven retcon. I'm not buying what they are trying to sell right now. 

I don't think Nick was a General.  That would be idiotic.  He may have been an assassin or something like that, one of the team that killed Congress, or the President etc. 

He was never just a driver though, he was always an EYE, or spy, and he was always due to become a Commander.

Will we get answers?  Probably not from these bozos.  If we do, I sincerely doubt it will be anytime soon, but I'd be happy to eat those words and be surprised.

Quote

Arghhh. Thank you for letting me get this off my chest. It really irritated me, and it takes a lot to irritate me. 

Yes, the show, unfortunately, is more often irritating now than interesting.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Umbelina
added link to map

[jackjill89]

17 hours ago, Umbelina said:

They call all the men in charge "Commanders" which is a bit stupid, unless you think of it as "Officers."  For example, everyone in say, the current Army above the rank of Sargent is an "officer" but obviously not all the same rank.

Gilead is huge, the entire continental USA, see the map in the spoiler thread for areas held by rebels/loyalists to the USA here: 

A tiny bit of hope on the horizon was the Swiss asking the same questions you are.  "The Command structure here is a black hole to us."

Why don't women in Omaha wear designer fashions and 5 inch heels every day like many women in NYC do?  It's a big country, with different customs in each area.  Power centers like DC have very little in common with logging towns in Oregon, or ranching towns in Texas, etc.

Gilead has "districts."  Everywhere in the USA is still the USA today, so someone from, say Utah, but they are still from the USA as well.

I don't think Nick was a General.  That would be idiotic.  He may have been an assassin or something like that, one of the team that killed Congress, or the President etc. 

He was never just a driver though, he was always an EYE, or spy, and he was always due to become a Commander.

Will we get answers?  Probably not from these bozos.  If we do, I sincerely doubt it will be anytime soon, but I'd be happy to eat those words and be surprised.

Yes, the show, unfortunately, is more often irritating now than interesting.

Thank you. But I really did think Fred, et al were the architects of the new structure, so why aren't they in charge? Until this whole DC thing, I thought where they were was the epicenter of the new country.

[Trillian]

11 minutes ago, jackjill89 said:

Thank you. But I really did think Fred, et al were the architects of the new structure, so why aren't they in charge? Until this whole DC thing, I thought where they were was the epicenter of the new country.

The show made it very clear, I thought, that Fred and the rest of the Boston gang were in charge of the whole of Gilead. 

And then they changed their minds, probably to justify the shots of the desecration of Washington.  Perhaps in a few seasons we’ll find out the capitol was actually in L.A. all along, with the Hollywood sign changed to HolyWood.  It’ll be fun watching Toronto stand in for all three as well as itself. 

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, Trillian said:

And then they changed their minds, probably to justify the shots of the desecration of Washington.  Perhaps in a few seasons we’ll find out the capitol was actually in L.A. all along, with the Hollywood sign changed to HolyWood.  It’ll be fun watching Toronto stand in for all three as well as itself. 

Or maybe it will be in Clearwater, where the main star's cult is based.

But since the Celebrity Center of said cult is in LA, maybe June will be sent there - celebrity handmaid has special treatment, after all.

[Ashforth]

2 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

Thank you. But I really did think Fred, et al were the architects of the new structure, so why aren't they in charge? Until this whole DC thing, I thought where they were was the epicenter of the new country.

In the beginning (hee hee) the show did make it seem that Fred and the Boston Commanders were the ultimate authority, and that Fred was a super high up muckety muck. I think there were fleeting references to DC.

Then at some point when Fred was being berated by his superior for the construction delays on the new Red Center, it was like, oh, huh, Fred is actually more of a B Level Executive. 

I think the show brought DC into the picture because the writers couldn't figure out how to make it work in Boston, i.e., they have super cool story ideas that wouldn't fly in the structure of the storyline to date. I mean, the Putnams aren't going to be swinging with Fred and Serena Joy. 🙄

[Umbelina]

5 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

Thank you. But I really did think Fred, et al were the architects of the new structure, so why aren't they in charge? Until this whole DC thing, I thought where they were was the epicenter of the new country.

Honestly, in the Wallingford family, it seemed like Serena had more to do with this "revolution" than Fred, she did the speaking, she wrote the books, then she was shut out at the end.

I agree though, the show was unclear, and it could easily be seen like that.

5 hours ago, Trillian said:

The show made it very clear, I thought, that Fred and the rest of the Boston gang were in charge of the whole of Gilead. 

And then they changed their minds, probably to justify the shots of the desecration of Washington.  Perhaps in a few seasons we’ll find out the capitol was actually in L.A. all along, with the Hollywood sign changed to HolyWood.  It’ll be fun watching Toronto stand in for all three as well as itself. 

I think Fred was obviously in on it all, including planning, from the jump, along with thousands of others.

He never really struck me as top dog material though, and from the beginning we saw others not trusting him, and him flailing around worried about his job, with an Eye specifically assigned to watch him and get dirt on him.  He wasn't even in charge of his own district, and we also heard about other districts pretty early on.  Still he was involved in policy for trade, and he was delegated to go to Canada.

Of all of the many, many mistakes the show has made?  The idea that there are people FAR more powerful than Fred and his Boston fellow commanders is absolutely the most believable to me, as are the variances in the districts.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Umbelina

[Ashforth]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Honestly, in the Wallingford family, it seemed like Serena had more to do with this "revolution" than Fred, she did the speaking, she wrote the books, then she was shut out at the end.

Serena was a modern-day Phyllis Schlafly, a highly educated, charismatic, articulate woman hell-bent on keeping other women down under the guise of protecting them. She was all for the revolution - then it actually happened and she found herself bound by the very restrictions she had advocated. Her books burned. Relegated to the rule of her intellectually inferior husband*. Her ideas, once supposedly respected, ignored by the ruling class of men. But that was supposed to be for other women!

Sorry, honey, you are just a woman. 

*and Fred has to love it, being the lord and master of the woman who outshined him right up until the assassinations of the US President, Supreme Court, and most or all members of the House and Senate. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Ashforth

[WearyTraveler]

I can't help it. Every time I hear the words "High Commander", I get an image of 3rd Rock from the Sun, head slapping salute and all.

[Astrid Kaysen]

I have 2 questions about this episode. . .

A. Why did they turn the Washington Monument into a cross? These people NEVER talk about Christ. Everything is Old Testament with them. Christ is about forgiveness and tolerance and these people haven't incorporated such issues into their religion. They're stoning people.

B. Why is the Washington Monument a big pointy phallic symbol?

https://images.app.goo.gl/5QWKAGfVjqAfKW9i6

[Joana]

I feel they've changed the religious ideology of Gilead a lot in S3, like they did with, well, everything. 

Back in S1 their religion seemed like a rather distant ofshoot of Christianity exclusively based on the Old Testament. I don't think there was a single reference to Jesus throughout the entire first two seasons. In fact, it's even debatable if the leaders of Gilead even considered themselves Christians. Now they're mentioning Christ, we're seeing the cross symbol everywhere, the Crusades are referenced, children are baptized etc. It looks like the whole thing has been watered down as to resemble the modern fundamentalist Christianity. 

It's one of the many, many dissapointing things about this season. 

[Dobian]

 

 

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On 7/1/2019 at 1:48 PM, marinw said:

I still wonder why June choose not to escape to Canada, she may have been able to help Hannah more from outside Gilead than within it.

Because...plot.  June in Canada means no more main characters being oppressed in Gilead.  Show becomes boring.  Writers want her in Gilead for the rest of the show.

[Astrid Kaysen]

On 7/12/2019 at 11:12 PM, Joana said:

I feel they've changed the religious ideology of Gilead a lot in S3, like they did with, well, everything. 

Back in S1 their religion seemed like a rather distant ofshoot of Christianity exclusively based on the Old Testament. I don't think there was a single reference to Jesus throughout the entire first two seasons. In fact, it's even debatable if the leaders of Gilead even considered themselves Christians. Now they're mentioning Christ, we're seeing the cross symbol everywhere, the Crusades are referenced, children are baptized etc. It looks like the whole thing has been watered down as to resemble the modern fundamentalist Christianity. 

It's one of the many, many dissapointing things about this season. 

So, it's like they're trying to make it fit more with current politics? I don't know how to feel about that. Seems like it worker better the way it was.

[Beatriceblake]

I found this episode really tedious, the various shocking visuals aside (headless Lincoln, whatever they had done to the Handmaid's mouth that didn't really make sense).

I don't think the show is going to have Nichole sent back to Gilead so this plot just feels like time wasting and an excuse for June and the viewer to spend more time with the Waterfords. I could just about stand seeing more of the Waterfords if their plotline was now totally separate from June's but at the minute, it feels like every episode features June being sent to spend time with the Waterfords for some contrived reason.

They don't need June to ask for the baby back.

It's also annoying to see June again taking the mad risk of screaming at Serena and burning her bridges with her. Even if June senses there is no chance Serena will stop trying to bring Nichole back, Serena is volatile and capable of being really cruel and vindictive. It doesn't make any sense for June to speak to her that way, given she is focused on trying to survive long enough to get Hanna out.

It's also frustrating because pretty much all the characters in the Lawrence household are more interesting than the Waterfords at this point.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Beatriceblake

[Blackie]

On 6/26/2019 at 7:04 AM, AnswersWanted said:

You don't just waste Meloni ass, it's sacrilegious, goddamnit. 

well he did shove his ass in Fred's face while making his pool shot, so that is a start.

[BrooklynRat]

On 6/26/2019 at 7:08 PM, AnswersWanted said:

This show once told a story so realistic and reflective of reality, it was beyond horrifying and soul crushing to watch.

That was its real power & impact, and now all this shit writing has gotten this message lost.  I view this as the biggest loss--reducing such a powerful political forbearance to cheap, poorly written, dystopian soap opera.

[bettername2come]

The broken Lincoln Memorial affected me more than I anticipated. I forget how huge the thing and somehow that made it sadder. The Washington Memorial less so because I was bugged by the aesthetic. Like that doesn't even like a cross, it's too pointy, it looks awkward,  what was Gilead thinking?

And looking forward to whatever is gonna happen between Meloni and Fred. 

Everything else, meh.