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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
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tv echo
tv echo

You're welcome, @AveMaria30! Thank you, everyone, for making this Arrow forum a place I've wanted to visit and participate in over the past several years. Although I'll continue to post anything Arrow

Velocity23
Velocity23

Seems Emily is coming back

KenyaJ
KenyaJ

I never had any doubt, but I'm so, so excited. Best news ever!

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CabotCove

CabotCove

(edited)
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I think we’ll get Oliver/Diggle/Laurel in 801 and 802. Then Oliver/Thea in 803.

And what about  804 805, 806, any idea what those are going to be about? 

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That sounds about right. I was also thinking it is probably going to be a Canary lite series finale. They are continuing in the spin off, they won’t need the focus outside of the backdoor pilot. 

 I doubt they wont show in finale, Dinah and Laurel as regulars of Arrow still need closure for Arrow alongside  the rest of the cast.  Not every viewer is going to want to see this  potential new show or if it will even be picked up, there need to be some sort of closure for all characters.

The backdoor pilot might also be set sometime in the near future or far future.  But if they is no gap in time, they might not need the finale as much.  

Edited by CabotCove
Featherhat

Featherhat

CB is a good actor so he might be able to bring nuance but I expect to be highly frustrated with JJ reasons for turning Deathstroke, whatever they are. Slade's were never that great and the endless parade of people turning evil because of their parents in some way looses it's emotional punch after a while. Birthday cake being a prime example.

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CabotCove

CabotCove

(edited)

I think Mia and Zoe play of each other well, there is a nice camaraderie  from the little shown. Also Andrea Sixtos seems to have grown into her role than last season. I wish they weren't leaving Zoe out of the female centric show...

Nice intro scene for Charlie as J.J, he sounds dangerous. 

Edited by CabotCove
Josh371982

Josh371982

29 minutes ago, CabotCove said:

I think Mia and Zoe play of each other well, there is a nice camaraderie  from the little shown. Also Andrea Sixtos seems to have grown into her role than last season. I wish they weren't leaving Zoe out of the female centric show...

Nice intro scene for Charlie as J.J, he sounds dangerous. 

Well to be fair we dont know yet if Zoe is going to left out of the Spinoff. But they've be so tone deaf already making Dinah a regular in the planned spinoff so who knows. I m hoping William Connor and Zoe are part of a spinoff. Hell I'm wanting Mia William Connor Zoe as the main characters 

tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Of course, the spin-off as its being discussed now may not even happen. Backdoor pilots dont get picked up all of the time, or they get seriously re-tooled depending on fan and critical feedback or based on ratings or focus groups. So I am hoping they give us the future show that they so obviously have gift wrapped for them, especially if the listen to feedback. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

'Arrow' Season 8 will see Connor and Mia in love-hate relationship as Star City’s protectors reveals Joseph David-Jones
Remus Noronha   Oct. 14, 2019
https://meaww.com/joseph-david-jones-interview-arrow-season-8-connor-hawke-mia-smoak-crisis-on-infinite-earths-teasers

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In an interview with MEA WorldWide (MEAWW), David-Jones gave us some exciting teasers about Connor's journey in season 8, his relationship with Mia Smoak (Katherine McNamara), and the upcoming crossover 'Crisis on Infinite Earths'.

"I can't give too much away about 'Crisis,'" he said. "Only to say that after it happens, everything is going to change. I mean obviously, you know Arrow's coming to an end, but it's going to affect everything. The whole world of the Arrowverse is going to change because of what it is. I just know that it's going to be nuts, man. Just amazing." 

Connor's relationship with Mia played a huge role in making last season's flash-forwards to 2040 a fun watch. In the coming season, David-Jones teased that we'll be seeing that relationship explored further and he didn't rule out the chances of a romance between the two when we quizzed him about it.
*  *  *
"I'd say there's a chance, just out of last season, but they're not gonna make it easy," he laughed. "They're not gonna make it easy for the fans at all. We start off and it's like a love-hate thing, you know. There is... not conflict but there is some trouble with things when we kick-off and they're still trying to figure this whole thing out, navigate being heroes now tasked with protecting the city on their own. And they don't know how to do that."

"So it's them trying to figure out who should take the lead, what they should do, how they should work together as a team. And Mia just, in general, doesn't like to work as a team. So there's a lot of conflict between them but there's still a lot of love there, a lot of history. So I think we'll see a difficult balance because Connor really does care about her and vice versa," he added. 

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Can I just say that I hate that Monitor voiceover to the above 801 opening scene? ...

The Monitor: "Among the many misconceptions that humanity holds dear is the fallacy that all beings are created equal. In truth, there are those that are greater. They are called Heroes. But even among Heroes, there are different echelons. The highest belong to those known as the Paragons. They are the only hope of all creation."

It's giving me a strong Zack Snyder vibe.

Edited by tv echo
way2interested

way2interested

5 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Based on that cover, it looks like someone's going to do some time-traveling or be relocated in time, because Dinah and Laurel don't look older.

Ha, to be fair, JH isn't a blonde and KM doesn't look like that, so it doesn't look like they were going for full accuracy.

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CabotCove

CabotCove

Just as i thought, a Birds of Prey-sque show, but they dont actually need to call it that. 

Yeah this is looking like it will be set in 2020, current timeline, then they will be able to do crossovers. Hope its with Batwoman and Black Lighting, I feel those are close thematically with an Arrow spin off. 

Velocity23

Velocity23

4 minutes ago, CabotCove said:

Just as i thought, a Birds of Prey-sque show, but they dont actually need to call it that. 

Yeah this is looking like it will be set in 2020, current timeline, then they will be able to do crossovers. Hope its with Batwoman and Black Lighting, I feel those are close thematically with an Arrow spin off. 

It seems more like a  Green Arrow show, while the two canaries will play a supporting role. And its obvious they never going to settle who is the Canary and they will bring the revolving door of the Canary network on to this show also. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

11 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Felicity Jr. and Friends!  😂

I won't be watching, but I love that the next Green Arrow is a woman and a Smoak. Who could've guessed when Oliver walked into Felicity's office that one day they'd have a daughter who takes over her father's legacy?

Mia...we are truly blessed with her greatness. 

I think the comic looks cool but am sad that Katie's tragic hair is immortalized in this way.

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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

It could well be set in 2020. We know crisis is changing things and she could be stuck in the past or a refugee from a defunct timeline. I just want to know how that ties up with Felicity's very good ending since we have no news of EBR returning. And I really don't want 8 eps of this new team learning and growing for it not to end up mattering or William not existing when Oliver and Felicity sacrifice so much for BOTH of them. Plus it does seem JDJ is going to be in it or thinks he might be and I doubt they'll all get stuck in the past. Shenanigans could also de age KC and JH.

Edited by Featherhat
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Velocity23

Velocity23

Just now, CabotCove said:

Possible, seeing how Mia only is seen in the Crisis picture leaks. 

I think we dont see much off anybody outside of Mia. Even the two Canaries seemed to have filmed for a day or 2 the most. So i dont think there is a connection with how much the actors are filming for Crisis. Because it seems Mia will be in most if not all episodes of the crossover, while the other might only be in the Arrow episodes, including the Canaries. 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

I'd say it's more likely BS and Dinah get pulled into 2040. It's easier for them to kill off the future versions of them and transplant the present versions because 2020 Dinah and BS have no family and few friends currently. They're not going to spend all of season 8 building up the flashforward kids only to kick them all to the curb.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Adult Mia fighting as the Green Arrow in 2020 Star City makes no sense. We know that, even in hiding, Felicity was still keeping an eye on Star City (as well as keeping an eye on William) because she was still doing vigilante work remotely.

In 716-Star City 2040, she told Mia, "there is a corrupt company in the Glades that I am this close to exposing."

So Felicity would certainly hear about it if someone was going around posing as the Green Arrow in Star City in 2020.

To make it work, the writers would have to change history as we've seen it last season.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

-- KM: "In Kat's perfect world, a hypothetical Arrow spinoff... It would be nice to see Mia out of her comfort zone in a sense. I mean, we see that a little bit this season. We get to see Mia try and be part of a team, which she doesn't necessarily play well with others - at this point. Um, but to force her to grow and to see her humanity a bit more, to see her relationship with her brother, to see her relationship with the other people around her. And - and to see her really try and take her own steps to improving Star City - but doing it her way - would be very interesting to see."

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

'Arrow' Season 8 Premiere Features 'Throwback' Felicity Moment, Producer Says (Exclusive)
By Philiana Ng‍ 7:00 AM PDT, October 15, 2019
https://www.etonline.com/arrow-season-8-premiere-features-throwback-felicity-moment-producer-says-exclusive-134350

Quote

"We're using 'Crisis' in its run-up as an opportunity to re-examine the show -- to look back and, as [showrunner] Beth [Schwartz] says, revisit our greatest hits," executive producer Marc Guggenheim tells ET of Arrow's final run. "That's something that is definitely true within the episodes leading up to the crossover and it's even true in the Arrow episode of the crossover. The Arrow episode is a little bit more of a hat tip to Arrow than the other shows are doing [during the crossover]."
*  *  *
"We want to be true to Arrow while engaging in this enormous crossover. We got our heads together and I feel like because of it, we're going to honor the past seven seasons... instead of just doing another season with the same structure," Schwartz tells ET. "We're going to touch on characters we haven't seen in a while. We're going to tie up some loose ends from every season. With this new structure it's allowed us to do that. It actually helped us make this last season the best season we'll have hopefully."
*  *  *
"The season premiere is like a remix of the pilot. It really revisits fun, key moments in the pilot -- to the point where when I sent my scenes off to Beth, I said, 'In a good way, it didn't feel like a season premiere, it felt like a series finale because it is so backward looking.' It plays as a real acknowledgment of the show," Guggenheim hinted, with Schwartz expressing, "I think that the fans are going to love [the premiere]. It was so fun to write."

"It was really important to me that our favorite places that mean so much to the series are something we revisit in the final season. Not only characters but settings," Schwartz continued, adding that it was important that they honor key characters from past seasons, like Thea Queen (Willa Holland), Tatsu (Rila Fukushima), Talia al Ghul (Lexa Doig), Yao Fei Gulong (Byron Mann) and Adrian Chase (Josh Segarra). "We only get one last chance to see Tommy or other characters, so what do we want to do with them? Who do we want to see? What scenes do we want to see? We only have 10 episodes; this is our last chance. That opened up our wish list of what we wanted to do."
*  *  *
For Thea's return to Arrow, which takes place in the third episode (titled "Leap of Faith"), Guggenheim hinted that a lot of answers will be given about what the younger Queen sibling has been up to. "We very clearly tell the audience where she is, what she's been doing since season six. It's a good update," he promised. "Of course, we have to do that relative to what we learned with Roy's character last year, so all those questions will get answered."

But what about Felicity Smoak? Emily Bett Rickards' absence is felt in the season eight premiere, who is mentioned often throughout the episode. Because the hour revisits the first season, Guggenheim shared that there is one scene in particular that is a direct call-out to a classic Felicity and Oliver moment. "There's a throwback to Felicity in the season premiere -- Emily's not in it -- but there's a very conscious, and I think funny, acknowledgement of her," he hinted.

Still, Guggenheim holds out hope that Rickards will appear one more time before Arrow officially signs off in early 2020, confessing that his biggest bucket list item is getting the actress back for the swan song. "If Emily were inclined to return for the finale, I know exactly how she would be returning for the finale. And I'm very much like a dog with a bone. Part of the job of producing anything is not taking 'no' for an answer, which is not to say we've gotten 'no' for an answer. You always have to keep trying because you never know. You just never know," he emphasized. "You never close the door on anything. You never know what's going to happen."
*  *  *
"We're not going to solely be in Star City. It's going to be a little more of traveling heroes, going to different location to different location," Schwarz said. "Green Arrow and his team saved Star City last year so that's not what's at stake this season. It's not 'You have failed this city.' Now it's 'You have failed the multiverse.' [Oliver] has to save the multiverse. That's what's allowed us to open up our structure leading up to the crossover and allowed us to visit with some characters who aren't in Star City."

When asked if the final shot of the series has evolved over the past several years, Guggenheim confirmed that there have been changes in his vision for what that last image will look like.

"It's shifted for a variety of different logistical reasons. Things that were originally planned for the series finale are now in the crossover, and by moving those moments into the crossover, it allowed me to look at those moments through a different lens and through a different eye and that changed some things," he said. "Until we actually shoot the finale, Beth and I were talking about this earlier today, I've given myself permission to not be dogmatic about what the finale is and allow myself to remain open for another idea."
*  *  *
"You just want to feel satisfaction -- that watching for eight years, even though you're sad the show ended, you have a feeling of 'Oh, that was really good. I feel OK walking away from the show,'" Schwartz explained. "I just want everyone, and myself included, to feel like that was the perfect ending to a show that I've been watching for eight seasons. My favorite series finale was Six Feet Under; if we can do anything in the vein of that show, I'll be happy. I want it to feel specific to Arrow and a perfect ending to Arrow."

Edited by tv echo
scarynikki12

scarynikki12

  • Author

It’s not the title I’d have chosen but I’ve decided that I like it because there’s no question as to Mia’s importance. It also guarantees that Dinah and Siren will have prominence but there have been so many canaries that they can shift to Zoe or bring in new ones if they get tired of them. I’d love to see Lady Shiva who has gone by Jade Canary to give an alternative example. 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

I think the saddest part about the spinoff PR track they decided to go with is that instead of focusing on the diverse group of flashforward actors, they decided 3 white women was the way to go. (They even made Dinah a blonde on the comic cover.) On a network that has 2 other superhero shows lead by... white women. (2.5, shows, if we include Legends) "Girl Power!... just not the intersectional kind. Sorry!"

Edited by lemotomato
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imusuallysweet

imusuallysweet

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I think the saddest part about the spinoff PR track they decided to go with is that instead of focusing on the diverse group of flashforward actors, they decided 3 white women was the way to go. (They even made Dinah a blonde on the comic cover.) On a network that has 2 other superhero shows lead by... white women. (2.5, shows, if we include Legends) "Girl Power!... just not the intersectional kind. Sorry!"

Juliana/Dinah is not white & she definitely doesn’t look white. I’m hoping some of the new roles they cast for are black women & women of color. I think Andrea/Zoe will be involved as well. 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)
2 minutes ago, imusuallysweet said:

Juliana/Dinah is not white & she definitely doesn’t look white. I’m hoping some of the new roles they cast for are black women & women of color. I think Andrea/Zoe will be involved as well. 

I was specifically talking about the PR they're doing for the spinoff. They haven't mentioned Zoe at at all (despite the talking about Canaries) and they whitewashed Dinah on that comic cover. What I see on the comic are 3 white women.

Edited by lemotomato
Velocity23

Velocity23

1 minute ago, CabotCove said:

We dont need another Green Arrow focused show LOL. 8 years of Arrow was enough for me. Oh well they are 100s of other superhero shows in 2020. 

we also had 6 different Canaries in 8 years. And outside of Sara their characters all failed. It would be smart to just let it go.  Green Arrow the 2nd time around is a different take on the story we seen.  KC has been in this role for 8 years and still has to share.

2 minutes ago, imusuallysweet said:

Juliana/Dinah is not white & she definitely doesn’t look white. I’m hoping some of the new roles they cast for are black women & women of color. I think Andrea/Zoe will be involved as well. 

Juliana definetely looks white. At least on the streets that i walk. So i get why people are sometimes confused about her heritage. The show also never made a deal about her background like for example with Rene. 

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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

Well, whilst he says "that's not to say we have had a no" it sounds like they might have had a no for the finale from EBR, but I've kind of let that go so I don't get disappointed. 

I think Zoe will be in it and probably JDJ too. As I said I will be frustrated if they work on setting up this baby team for 8 eps then ditch them to focus on setting up another team. 

I think it's a hilarious title. People have been asking for a Green Arrow and Black Canary show and it's finally here by name and the GA is ……...Mia Smoak. BC lost all meaning as a moniker a long time ago in the Arrowverse, the first one (Sara) made the role her own and the rest are pale shadows. Sara doesn't even use White Canary much but at least it's her own.

GA still has some cache as a draw, more so than just being "The Canaries" and KM is just right for the CW. I do think it's a little amusing that both KC and JH are really, really excited about being BC this season. KC always seems most excited when she's BC and having scenes with Oliver. 

Edited by Featherhat
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

21 minutes ago, CabotCove said:

We dont need another Green Arrow focused show LOL. 

I could argue that we don't need a show focused on canaries either, since they've mishandled that mantle so much there are been four of them in the present and are a whole network of them in the future. Seems like...maybe they don't know what they're doing there. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Remember when SA said that he'd be playing two characters in the crossover? ...

A Stephen Amell Tweet Is Driving Speculation He Might Play The Spectre in Crisis on Infinite Earths
By RUSS BURLINGAME - October 14, 2019 
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/10/14/stephen-amell-spectre-crisis-infinite-earths/

Quote

After a curiously-worded tweet, Arrow star Stephen Amell has some fans wondering whether The Spectre could be playing a role in "Crisis on Infinite Earths" -- and one fan site is even reporting that Amell himself will be the one to step into the role. The Spectre's presence in "Crisis on Infinite Earths" would not be entirely surprising -- after all, the character played a brief but very significant role in the comic book miniseries on which the event is based. The decision to put Oliver Queen under that particular hood would be a little more surprising -- but something that might make some sense to longtime comics fans.

The Spectre is basically God's avenging angel. While the traditions of superhero comics prevent him (usually) from saying outright what God he works for, The Spectre is divine wrath personified, with some definite Judeo-Christian aspects to his backstory and characterization. The Spectre, also, is a powerful force that needs to be tethered to a human.
*  *  *
Such a trajectory is not impossible to imagine, either for the Oliver Queen we have always known or for another Earth's Oliver Queen who may have been a spoiled rich kid whose act of redemption was the kind of heroism that has defined the later life of our Ollie. In fact, Heroic Hollywood is already reporting (based on an anonymous source and prompted by Amell's tweet above) that Amell will play the role). Written well, it could be pretty poignant -- and it could play into something else we all learned this weekend.

Over the weekend, fans were told that Tom Ellis would be playing the role of Lucifer Morningstar (his character from Lucifer and the literal devil) in "Crisis on Infinite Earths." He was reportedly taking part in a scene that also included Matt Ryan's John Constantine, suggesting some magical elements. What if, then, Lucifer was representing Hell and The Spectre was representing Heaven in reality's conflict with the Anti-Monitor?

During an interview with ComicBook.com last week, we asked Amell to address an old theory we came up with -- namely, that Oliver Queen would not die in the Crisis but would be removed to a pocket Universe with Felicity. Asked whether he would prefer death, or a fake-out death like that, Amell teased, "I have a third idea, but I can't tell you what it is."

In the original comics, The Spectre appeared and was one of the beings who came the closest to defeating the Anti-Monitor one-on-one. His inability to do so put him into a coma, and left the villain significantly weakened. It was later established that a hand seen at the dawn of creation -- a long-running mystery of the DC Universe -- was likely that of The Spectre.

Arrow’s Stephen Amell To Become The Spectre For ‘Crisis On Infinite Earths’
by NATHANIEL BRAIL on OCTOBER 14, 2019
https://heroichollywood.com/arrow-stephen-amell-the-spectre-crisis-infinite-on-earths/

Quote

Arrow star Stephen Amell will have another DC Comics character under his belt as the actor is set to become The Spectre in Crisis on Infinite Earths.
*  *  *
Stephen Amell’s choice of words is very interesting as we can confirm that he will be playing a version of The Spectre in Crisis on Infinite Earths. According to a source, Stephen Amell will become The Spectre at some point during the crossover, but it is unclear if it will be as Oliver Queen or another character, such as Jim Corrigan.

Edited by tv echo
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