Season 21 Live Feed Discussion

[Gummo]

A coupla quick thoughts:

- Why Tommy thought it was a good idea to tell his secret to everyone when he was still on the block I'll never understand. Once they all realized he had kept a game-changing secret FOR 3 MONTHS IN CLOSE QUARTERS ... why trust him about anything? Jackson's lie was certainly plausible, but hell, he could have told them that Tommy confided he was going to murder them all in their sleep and it would have been believed at that point. Tommy thought confiding in everyone would prove they could trust him, but of course it proved the exact opposite.

- I think Cliff is one of those genial hale-fellow-well-met types ... until you cross him. Then I think he turns utterly ruthless, both in business and personally. He's used both facets of his personality well but I don't see anyone in the jury house giving him a million bucks unless somehow it comes down to him versus Holly.

- Jackson is a disturbing asshole weirdo but dammit, he's played a great game, both physically & socially. I don't want him to win but if he does I'll reluctantly give him his due. Just so long as he's not a loudmouthed fascist would-be cult leader, like some ex-players I could name....

- Still rooting/hoping some way, somehow, for a Nicole win!

[Ellee]

What are they doing?

Also, don't we typically have articles by now on the evicted houseguest?  I'm curious what Tommy has to say.

Are they re-doing the fight so that they have enough footage?  🙄

[HartofDixie]

Growth

https://twitter.com/Mrs_ARockstar/status/1172490395554656257

Salty

https://twitter.com/SwaggyCTV/status/1172561006590980096

[Melina22]

34 minutes ago, Gummo said:

Why Tommy thought it was a good idea to tell his secret to everyone when he was still on the block I'll never understand

Even Tommy said the same in his interview with Julie. He admitted telling his secret was a mistake and he wasn't even sure what made him do it. I feel like finding himself alone and powerless after feeling confident for so long unhinged him and made him do dumb things.

Actually, Tommy grew on me over the season and I didn't find him as fake as a lot of people do. Certainly, I never found him mean-spirited. I fully believe that Tommy, Nicole, Cliff and maybe Holly will backstab when necessary for the game, but without any enjoyment in it. On the other hand, Jackson seems to adore lying to and backstabbing people in the game. In the real world... I can't say. 

[HurricaneVal]

I think Tommy told his secret because he didn't know if he could trust Christie not to spill the beans to the jury, and if by some miracle Tommy managed to be sitting in the final two, he had no idea how that knowledge would affect the final vote.  He was in panic mode, and trying to cover his ass, so the new jury members he told could maybe advocate for him in the jury house.   If they were so inclined.  It was a tragically fated "Hail Mary" pass right before the whistle blew on his game.

[Lamima]

On Tommy...

I still think he only told J&H about Christie because they were trash talking her sooooo much and he just blew a gasket and told them as if to say 'um, she's like family to me so eff you all for trash taking her'. 

And him going to poison the well in jury house. I think he'll go in all bitter and be like 'Jackson did this lie and he did this manipulation and he was so good at this and that, and he controls everything...Jackson is evil and we should hate him'. But then the obvious will be pointed out by the others...'hey, Tommy, that's EXACTLY why we should vote for him to win'.

[vb68]

13 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Actually, Tommy grew on me over the season and I didn't find him as fake as a lot of people do. Certainly, I never found him mean-spirited. I fully believe that Tommy, Nicole, Cliff and maybe Holly will backstab when necessary for the game, but without any enjoyment in it.

Well he was better once Jack left. I will give you that much.  But I still believe Jack and the whole Gr8ful and 6Shooters alliances brought out the worst in him. But that's also true for everyone else involved.  

[kellog010]

I actually don't think Tommy is going to "poison the jury". He gets it's a game and he will just tell the rest of the jury exactly what happened - that Jackson sold the lie, plus Cliff being threatened by him is what sent him out. I do believe he is going to talk up Nicole in the jury house because they got really close and he really seems to like her. 

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, Lamima said:

On Tommy...

I still think he only told J&H about Christie because they were trash talking her sooooo much and he just blew a gasket and told them as if to say 'um, she's like family to me so eff you all for trash taking her'. 

Personally I think the main reason Tommy opened his big fat trap so wide was paranoia, pure and simple:

1. Tommy is OTB with Holly, who is currently describing Christie as borderline sociopathic - a portrayal with which Jackson is in full agreement.
2. With Christie’s eviction, Tommy is separated from Christie for the first time this season - so Tommy has absolutely no idea (a) what Christie is saying about him/them in the JH, (b) how it’s being received, or (c) how evictees going forward might take it if they arrive at the JH only to discover how Tommy has lied to them all season.

Tommy has zero degree of control over 2a or 2b - but he can do something about 2c, in an attempt to defuse the explosiveness of the revelation.  Which is what Tommy does, for better or for worse.

[Dmarie019]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't think there'll be as much backlash to him winning now as there would have been five-six weeks ago. Jackson's not only gotten better as a player, he's gotten better as a person. Of course, you can certainly argue that he's faking it to only be perceived as some Golden Boy, and I do think that production has had him as their pet all season long (always got the Golden Boy edit compared to even Jack, at least as much as he possibly could). 

Last night he was telling Nicole that he did some recording (in the DR I guess?) about how he is so glad he was able to come to the house and meet someone like Nicole and she's like the little sister he never had, or ever wanted, something like that.

I so hope he was telling her the truth and that wasn't something to blow up her ass. 

And I have to admit, his decision to make Tommy out like a liar was kind of genius. He is playing the game. Unlike everyone else in that house. 

[HurricaneVal]

I also think there was also more than a little bit of what @Lamima was saying, that Holly and Jackson were trashing Christie and that prompted Tommy to spill his news.  I think Tommy had been fretting about it since Christie left for the jury, and that conversation on the HOH bed was what pushed Tommy over the edge to revealing the secret.  It all hangs together.

[Growsonwalls]

Actually I think what Tommy was doing was venting about something that I think bothered him all game: the perception that he wasn't really playing his own game and was playing so closely with Christie. I think he just got frustrated and said "there's a reason for it. I've actually known her for a long time." It's day 80, he's lonely, he's on the block, and I can understand it. It wasn't smart.

I also think a part of Tommy wishes he hadn't played the game with Christie. I think Tommy had the kind of agreeable personality and enough skill in comps he could have done well regardless. But with Christie there a lot of his moves were limited by what she wanted or didn't want to do.

He should have just gone to the DR and vented there, and gotten it all out, but he vented to Jolly. Oh well. 

But he's one of the few people who has a career and I don't see his career suffering bc of Big Brother. He'll be fine. He seems fairly mature.

[TimWil]

I’m not sure about Nicole but I’m certain Cliff felt it in his gut that Jackson was lying. This would, of course, give him the perfect out to renege on the F4 deal. But he didn’t because he’s a piece of shit, no better than Jackson. Even worse than Jackson, IMO, because he’s playing at being someone much better than he is.

Tommy was very diplomatic in his later interview with Julie about Jackson’s lies but inside he must be deeply hurt and very angry. I want him and Christie to crucify Jackson on Finale Night no matter what. And I have a feeling after Sunday’s episode airs Tommy will be the automatic frontrunner for AFP. I’ll be switching my votes to him from Nicole. And I want Cliff to be in the shot when Julie announces him as AFP.

Edited September 13, 2019 by TimWil

[Callaphera]

6 minutes ago, TimWil said:

Tommy was very diplomatic in his later interview with Julie about Jackson’s lies but inside he must be deeply hurt and very angry. I want him and Christie to crucify Jackson on Finale Night no matter what. And I have a feeling after Sunday’s episode airs Tommy will be the automatic frontrunner for AFP. I’ll be switching my votes to him from Nicole. And I want Cliff to be in the shot when Julie announces him as AFP.

[TimWil]

Hah, just wait, Callaphera. The reaction last night to just that tiny preview of what will take up at least two segments of Sunday’s show has been immense on Twitter and elsewhere. You should know by now the casual viewers are not like us feeders and they will GO NUTS when they see Sunday’s show. Tommy will have a great shot at AFP.

Edited September 13, 2019 by TimWil

[Tuxcat]

So what are they doing today? Feeds have been on animals a long time? Is it veto or something else?

[Callaphera]

7 minutes ago, TimWil said:

Hah, just wait, Callaphera. The reaction last night to just that tiny preview of what will take up at least two segments of Sunday’s show has been immense on Twitter and elsewhere. You should know by now the casual viewers are not like us feeders and they will GO NUTS when they see Sunday’s show. Tommy will have a great shot at AFP.

STOP THE WORLD. I'D LIKE TO GET OFF NOW, PLEASE.

[phlebas]

2 minutes ago, Figster said:

Oooh yeah Nicole sure had so many choices of who to nominate!  Boy I bet that was a TOUGH and GUTSY decision to put up Christie!  (Major sarcasm here lol).  

Sorry but that is not a good argument for Nicole's BIG MOVE! LOL!  She just doesn't have one; she's been feckless all season and takes her marching orders from Cliff.

How dare you say that about Kaycee.

I mean, Josh.

I mean, Nicole.

[Gummo]

Of the Final Four, the order in which I think they deserve to win:

Jackson
Cliff
Nicole
Holly

The order in which I want them to win:

Nicole
Cliff or Jackson
Holly

So I'm an old softie, so shoot me!

[Dmarie019]

27 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

So what are they doing today? Feeds have been on animals a long time? Is it veto or something else?

No idea but it's been going on about 6 hours now i think. 

Maybe they're taping the remiscing episode where they have a nice breakfast and then go from room to room and tell scripted stories? 

[phlebas]

I don't think it'll take a bitter jury for Nicole to win. All the non-Jess people seem to like her. If she gets there, she's got as much a shot as anyone.

She hasn't been flashy or flawless or anything like that. But that's not necessary -- she just needs five people to feel better about giving her half a million than they feel about giving it to the other person.

Edited September 13, 2019 by phlebas

[Callaphera]

1 minute ago, Dmarie019 said:

No idea but it's been going on about 6 hours now i think. 

Maybe they're taping the remiscing episode where they have a nice breakfast and then go from room to room and tell scripted stories? 

I think that usually happens when it's F3 and the episode leads into the first part of the HoH comp. 

But who the fuck knows anymore. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, after four hours, feeds came back.

And...Ovi was there?

[phlebas]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

You could be right.  I must admit I never thought Kaycee would beat Tyler last year!  I was really off about that.  But I think it's a problem for Nicole that she made little to no impression on much of the jury so far, unlike the other three left in the game.  We shall see!

I'm just reveling in having no f***ing idea what's going to happen 🙂

I'm rooting for Nicole, though. But just because I'm a simple man and she and Tommy are the only ones in the house I'd want to be friends with.

[Gummo]

What Nicole needs to do is give a calm, clear explanation of the game she's played.

But I'm afraid she's going to go to pieces once she's in front of the jury. She'll be facing a bunch of people, some of whom treated her badly or just ignored her, and she'll be peppered with hostile questions and I just don't see her standing up to that kind of pressure.

Whereas Cliff or Jackson would have no problem dealing with jury attitude. 

[Callaphera]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

So, after four hours, feeds came back.

And...Ovi was there?

Makes as much sense as everything else this season. Sure, why not, just bring Ovi back for a visit and a cookie delivery.

[Dmarie019]

jackson says he would give the money back if they would have gotten family videos.

sounds like they did a comp

[Lady Calypso]

It looks like they had some sort of luxury competition. 

Jackson won some money.

[Dmarie019]

Jackson is just sooooooo glad he's in the house with the 3 of them. He loves them all so much. 

[Gummo]

4 minutes ago, Dmarie019 said:

Jackson is just sooooooo glad he's in the house with the 3 of them. He loves them all so much. 

I don't begrudge him that - he seems to genuinely like everyone who's left. 

Of course it's easy to like people when you're feeling cocky and have a good shot to win half a mil over them.

[Callaphera]

17 minutes ago, Dmarie019 said:

Jackson is just sooooooo glad he's in the house with the 3 of them. He loves them all so much. 

Tommy? Is that you?

[Tuxcat]

Jackson saying he feels bad for winning the money (in the comp today) when Cliff has a family and needs to provide for them. He said he doesn't like succeeding when others fail...

Um...

I think Jackson is trying to set up why he is ultimately making moves to take Cliff to F2?

[missyb]

36 minutes ago, Gummo said:

What Nicole needs to do is give a calm, clear explanation of the game she's played.

But I'm afraid she's going to go to pieces once she's in front of the jury. She'll be facing a bunch of people, some of whom treated her badly or just ignored her, and she'll be peppered with hostile questions and I just don't see her standing up to that kind of pressure.

Whereas Cliff or Jackson would have no problem dealing with jury attitude. 

I think staying clear calm and collected in reciting a string of events or reasons is Nicoles strong suit.

Edited September 13, 2019 by missyb

[Gummo]

14 minutes ago, missyb said:

I think staying clear calm and collected in reciting a string of events or reasons is Nicoles strong suit.

I hope so. I really do.

[vb68]

19 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I think Jackson is trying to set up why he is ultimately making moves to take Cliff to F2?

If he's really going to keep Cliff, oh please let Jackson win veto. I can't actually imagine him icing Holly like that, but damn that would be entertaining to say the least. Holly would turn into Diane from season 5.

[Tuxcat]

I'm just going to say this again. I cannot stand watching Nicole do her "Wow" "Awww" "Oh my god" "Yay" seal clapping. She is acting so cutesy aw shucks with Jackson. Like she's 12.  I get that she's a self proclaimed unicorn but she's also a 24 year old woman and watching her pander to Jackson (or all the men in this game) irritates me. And Jackson is eating up the "I will protect you" role. He's that big hunk of man who wants to pick her up and carry her around in his pocket. Gross. Both you you-- grow up.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

Sorry but that is not a good argument for Nicole's BIG MOVE!

Maybe not by your standards 😉 - but compare the eviction rosters of the F4 when each was an HoH:

• Jackson: Analyse, Jessica, and Tommy.
• Nicole: Christie (+ 1 F4 TBD).
• Holly: Sam and Nick.
• Cliff: Bella.

In terms of significant BGM evictions under one’s HoH, I’d say Nicole/Christie and Jackson/Tommy are tied neck-and-neck - and if Jackson ends up being the next evictee under a Nicole HoH reign, nobody else left to vote for (Holly or Cliff) is even close.

Of course, that’s simply MY opinion.  YMMV. 😎

[Melina22]

59 minutes ago, Dmarie019 said:

Jackson is just sooooooo glad he's in the house with the 3 of them. He loves them all so much. 

Watching them all last night I realized this is a group who would never, ever spend time together in real life. A jock, a model, a nerdy girl, an older man, a Broadway dancer. Being forced to live with and get close to such wildly different people has to be good for them. Hopefully they'll learn from it. 

[DEL901]

3 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Watching them all last night I realized this is a group who would never, ever spend time together in real life. A jock, a model, a nerdy girl, an older man, a Broadway dancer. Being forced to live with and get close to such wildly different people has to be good for them. Hopefully they'll learn from it. 

The new Breakfast Club?

[missyb]

2 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Watching them all last night I realized this is a group who would never, ever spend time together in real life. A jock, a model, a nerdy girl, an older man, a Broadway dancer. Being forced to live with and get close to such wildly different people has to be good for them. Hopefully they'll learn from it. 

I really agree with this. It is one of the best parts of big brother. Watching big ole southern jocks sleep with gay broadway dancers

Watching unicorn loving girl be this favored female at of all the models, big mouths, over the top female HG. I just love this part of it.

I think I see a very vulnerable , sweet Jackson when he is with Nicole. He doesn't have to be tough guy. It is a very familial relationship. He does not have this repore with Holly. It is a nice side of him that I do not think is an act.

He can be horrible for a bunch of other reasons. Week 1 he was horrendous. But when he is with Nicole, it is different.

He probably never imagined that someone like Nicole he would feel the most connected to.

[Ellee]

4 minutes ago, Sarah Heart said:

How much he want to take Nicole and Cliff aside???

Or just say 'zing' and smile. 😊

[Tuxcat]

Cliff is clarifying to Jackson that he would take Nicole to F2 and not him. He wanted to make things clear after he came out of the DE.

[missyb]

Cliff and Nicole, a great alliance. They really share with each other, what is going on. They talk calmly and logically. I have really enjoyed watching it throughout the season.

Nicole letting Cliff know he was overheard in the boatroom and may be in trouble.

Cliff letting Nicole kow he may have to keep his distance after all heck broke loose when Nicole told Bella and Nick the 6 were plotting against them but he would try to look out for her.

She understands when he has to play his own game and vice versa. I find this partnership very unique. One of the best.

[missyb]

5 minutes ago, Sarah Heart said:

Good! I needed to hear that

Did they play veto comp? 

No. Nominations are this afternoon and veto is Saturday.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, Gummo said:

What Nicole needs to do is give a calm, clear explanation of the game she's played.

But I'm afraid she's going to go to pieces once she's in front of the jury. She'll be facing a bunch of people, some of whom treated her badly or just ignored her, and she'll be peppered with hostile questions and I just don't see her standing up to that kind of pressure.

Whereas Cliff or Jackson would have no problem dealing with jury attitude. 

Should the opportunity present itself I think Nicole will have zero problems handling anything this Jury should choose to throw at her, and for one simple reason: NICOLE OUTLASTED EVERY DAMN ONE OF THEM.  

If anybody DOES get catty or mean at Nicole, it’ll be entirely too easy for her to blow it off as the bitchy grumblings of a poor loser.  Have to say, though, by F2 I don’t think it’ll even be an issue.  By then I suspect TPTB will have a pretty firm feel on how the AFH vote is going - and if the rest of this season has been any indication, then well before Finale Night Production will drop a bug in the ear of any Juror who might be inclined to unsheathe their claws on America's Sweetheart on national TV.

[missyb]

3 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Should the opportunity present itself I think Nicole will have zero problems handling anything this Jury should choose to throw at her, and for one simple reason: NICOLE OUTLASTED EVERY DAMN ONE OF THEM.  

If anybody DOES get catty or mean at Nicole, it’ll be entirely too easy for her to blow it off as the bitchy grumblings of a poor loser.  Have to say, though, by F2 I don’t think it’ll even be an issue.  By then I suspect TPTB will have a pretty firm feel on how the AFH vote is going - and if the rest of this season has been any indication, then well before Finale Night Production will drop a bug in the ear of any Juror who might be inclined to unsheathe their claws on America's Sweetheart on national TV.

I think Nicole can handle the questioning the absolute best of all of them. She is calm , logical, step by step. 

[Tuxcat]

Ok so it will be an interesting week. Jackson and Holly analyzing Cliff. "This Cliff is an exhausted Cliff. This is a messy Cliff." They say Cliff is scrambling and making deals left and right. But Jackson and Holly aren't loyal to them anymore because Cliff and Nicole turned on them and almost voted out Holly. Cliff strong armed them into making deals on top of deals. So basically, everything Jackson has been saying since HOH has been just to appease Cliff. He's loyal to Holly alone. Or at least that is what he is saying to Holly now.

[missyb]

Cliff is much more naive than Nicole regarding how Jackson and Holly will play from here on out. He thinks they will honor their agreements. Ha Ha Ha

Nicole realizes that they may not, especially after what they did the last couple of days.

Of love Nicoles view of the game. Even if it includes unicorns.
 

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, missyb said:

Of love Nicoles view of the game. Even if it includes unicorns.

Nicole has great reads. She's definitely one of the smartest players this season, even if she hasn't made the moves to prove that. 

[Growsonwalls]

I totally empathize with Nicole. I also have anxiety, am shy, and have never really understood the point of hair extensions on girls who already have nice hair. I wouldn't fit in with the model types they recruit on the show either. But at some point you just have to put on your big girl panties and stop worrying about not fitting in and play the game. Since Nicole's won a few competitions she's said over and over again how this is like revenge for how she's been ostracized in the house and it's not really a good look because the people left in the house never really ostracized her.

Holly - always had a good relationship with Nicole. She was never part of that Nicole shunning that happened during Nick's HoH. In fact she said many times she felt shitty about it. 

Jackson - he's always been pretty nice to Nicole. He has a mean streak a mile wide and will do anything to win the game but he hasn't been personally cruel to Nicole.

Cliff - oddly Nicole's ride or die wasn't that close to Nicole until he got evicted and realized he needed a new alliance, ASAP. But they have a strong bond.

And if you think back -- Ovi, Kemi, and David were always very kind to Nicole. Sis was vapid and an airhead but I remember her being pretty nice to Nicole too. Nick was really mean to Nicole when Bella was in the house but after Bella left he and Nicole became close. 

If Nicole wants to look at truly cruel, vile BB shunning, she needs to rewatch BB8's Jen who tried to take everything from getting dumped with ice tea on her head to her clothes getting thrown on the roof with good humor. She did eventually snap but that was after months of 24/7 harassment by ED. Then there's BB15 and Candice. And BB19 and Paul's minions doing charming things like throwing out Kevin's slop, throwing out Cody's cereal, saying they wanted to rape Kevin's wife and daughters, saying Cody didn't have a daughter and if he did poor girl, harassing Mark for not shunning Cody, and a bunch of other abhorrent behavior.

I could get behind a Nicole win if she just got off the victory/pity party she's been on since she won that HoH.