S05.E03: Chapter Eighty-Four

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Jane must get over the newest hurdle in her life, which proves to be harder than she and Rafael would have hoped. Rogelio discovers that he and River are not as equal as he thought. Meanwhile, Jane and Petra must deal with the children not getting along with each other, which in turn brings up issues of how Petra and Jane feel about each other.

Promo:

Original air date: 4/10/19

Edited April 11, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Lady Calypso]

This episode wasn't bad, per say, but there's probably a reason why I stopped watching last season...because, no surprise, Michael's memory coming back was the best part of this episode. Brett Dier is a fantastic actor. He really conveyed all of the emotions in that final scene. 

Now I fear, with them speeding up Michael's memory coming back, that Michael's going to be gone faster than expected. I mean, he's already on his way back to Montana, although with his memories returning, is he going to stick around? Which would just solidify that Michael's return was a dumbass plot device, guaranteed to make Michael fans, and Jane/Michael fans, broken hearted yet again. 

And yep, I KNEW his memory would be triggered by "snow". 

Other things to comment on:

• Jane's initial assumption about thinking that Petra was feeling left out by Rafael should have been the main reason why Petra was pissed....despite me liking the Petra/Jane friendship. Rafael HAS treated Petra and the twins as second fiddle. 
• Rogelio's plot is annoying. I really don't care about his rivalry with River, and Xo doesn't do much. 
• The Mateo vs Anna/Elsa stuff could be developed so much more. 

[nilyank]

Oh Michael.

Sobs!!!!

[bettername2come]

Michael! He's back! He's back! I knew the "snow" would trigger his memories as soon as he was at the door. I've been saying it since Ravenswood, but Brett Dier is amazing at teary eyes. Seriously, though the second he was Michael again I was rooting for him. Two minutes earlier I had expected him to be a secret double agent for Rose because that would hurt so much, so I'm very happy that's not how it's going. And his heart lit up! 

[cardigirl]

Haven't read the spoiler thread yet, so I literally screamed when the 'snow' came down  on Jason's head and Michael remembered.  And then I cried a little.  Can't remember when a show affected me that way.  Great acting! 

Not sure I want to read the spoiler thread now.  Can they not see how great a character Michael is? The love story of Jane and Michael could be/should be epic!  C'mon writers.

[MajesticMariposa]

5 minutes ago, BAH said:

so why do I watch? To catch glimpses of Michael/Brett Dier. And to fume at the injustice of Jafael. 

Same here. On another note, why does the show keep acting as though Mateo is an only child? He has 2 sisters, even if they don't get along. Just like in S3, they had a line about wanting him to have siblings... What?

[JamieLynn832002]

13 minutes ago, MajesticMariposa said:

On another note, why does the show keep acting as though Mateo is an only child? He has 2 sisters, even if they don't get along. Just like in S3, they had a line about wanting him to have siblings... What?

I really don't get this either, it's not the same as being raised in the same household and I understand Jane wanting that for him but they're full on acting like he doesn't have siblings in the middle of a story about him fighting with his sisters. It's weird. It might make sense if they were being raised completely separately with no/little interaction but even when Rafael was in prison Jane and Petra made sure they saw each other frequently.

Edited April 11, 2019 by JamieLynn832002
fix typo

[blugirlami21]

I thought that was quite good.  I was upset initially when Michael returned because I thought that Jane and Rafael were finally falling into place after all these years and they would finally be together but I am finding to my surprise that Michael/Jason being back is not really that upsetting to me.  I actually really enjoyed Jason quite a bit.  He's so different than Michael was and I thought that he and Jane have a nice comedic chemistry.

I like that the show is exploring every uncomfortable aspect of what being in this super unusual situation could be like.  For Jane, it's disorienting , and disquieting, and upsetting.  Her husband is back but he's not the man that she fell in love with.  She doesn't feel the same way about him that she did before.  And I'm sure that for someone like Jane getting back to normal is of the utmost importance right now.  She can sympathize with Jason to an extent but she doesn't want to lose the new normal she created for herself.  

I don't think its fair to say that Jane is being cruel or insensitive.  Michael didn't die last week or last year even.  Its been years and it was a devastating loss for Jane.  She had to remake herself and her life without him.  Its not so easy to just go back to the way things were.  I also think that she has done a lot to help him remember what he forgot.

I also thought that in the end she was as caring and loving as she could be when she asked him to go.  

I think Rafael gets the thankless of role of being the jealous guy here but he's allowed to feel how he feels about the situation.  I think it would be even weirder if he was just ok with Jason actively trying to get Jane back.

I love the continued growing of Petra and Jane's sisterly bond.  They have come so far over the years and its so nice to see them be able to honestly show vulnerability with each other when they hurt each other.

I do find the Rogelio stuff very annoying but I love that when we got down to the real meat of the issue I understood why it was so upsetting for him to play second fiddle to River on his own show.

No Sin Rostro stuff thank goodness.

And Michael got his memories back.  I'm glad its not going to be dragged out and I'm excited to see what comes of it.  I do think that Jane will have to reopen those wounds and really explore what Michael, the real Michael being alive really means to her.

[nomodrama]

Ugh that was a gut wrenching ending. How are we supposed to wait a whole week for the next episode. 

The only upside in this whole Micheal/Jason storyline for me has been watching Rafael squirm....boy do I dislike that guy! The whole twins things makes me dislike him even more, he completely neglects those girls to chase after Jane and Mateo. I think Petra would have had every right to be upset about it but of course they had to make it about Jane neglecting her. 

I totally knew River was going to use Rogelio's plight to create positive publicity for herself. 

It's no wonder Mateo and the twins don't get along, what a weird situation that must be for all three of them. The twins live in luxury, going to special schools, have nannies. Of course that is going to give both them and Mateo a complex, I can't even imagine what it would be like to grow up with a sibling that close in age but living apart from you in completely different circumstances. Either way, I hope Jane, Rafael and Petra are saving up some money, all three of those kids are going to need some serious therapy when they find out all the sordid details of their family history. 

[tennisgurl]

MICHAEL!!!!

*Flops onto the ground, crying*

Thats all I got now. I am sure I will have more later, but for now...MICHAEL!!!!

[mrsbagnet]

I felt bad for Mateo feeling like an outsider with the twins, buuut they are twins. Everyone they interact with is an outsider. They should learn to include their brother, sure, but he will never have with them what they have with each other. Add in the lifestyle differences that @nomodrama mentioned, and I don't see how their relationship can't be difficult. The whole situation is just messy.

I really liked River in this episode, both her explanation of why she deserved a high salary and her advocating for Rogelio. She used the situation for publicity, but since he did kick her in the face, he owes her that.

[natyxg]

48 minutes ago, mrsbagnet said:

I felt bad for Mateo feeling like an outsider with the twins, buuut they are twins. Everyone they interact with is an outsider. They should learn to include their brother, sure, but he will never have with them what they have with each other. Add in the lifestyle differences that @nomodrama mentioned, and I don't see how their relationship can't be difficult. The whole situation is just messy.

Maybe if he didn't treat them like shit they would like him more. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I think in the episode they said that every fight was started by him not only being a little asshole, but physically hurting one of the twins.

Anyhooo. So, I loved the Jane/Petra sisters scene. I think I like their relationship more than their romantic relationships. Petra and JR will never have the backstory and development that Jane and Petra have, and both of Jane's relationships are ruined by the infernal, never ending love triangle.

I loved the moment when Michael got back his memory. It was very obvious that it would happen at the end of the episode, but I thought the actor and the flashbacks were so lovely. Now that Michael got his memory back and, I assume, remembers both life as Michael and his life as Jason I kind of wish he would tell Jane to fuck off for reacting so terribly to his return. She and Rafael were just... so awful. *shivers*

But of course, that won't happen.

Told ya he'd be back @cardigirl. 😉

[tennisgurl]

Michael getting his memories back was really beautifully done, with him remembering the snow and his whole life with Jane. Brett is just so good, you could actually see the moment in his face she stopped being Jason and became Michael again. 

Of course, that leads to the question of what happens now. Does he go back to his Jason life? Does he bang on the door and tell Jane? Because while Jane was fine with leaving Jason and settling back into her life with Raf and Mateo, is she so fine with leaving Michael? I have a terrible feeling that ether Michael will leave and not tell her so she wont be conflicted about being with Raf, but I dont know. It seems like Jane is just fine without Michael now, and him coming back was basically just a big annoyance to her relationship with Raf, so will it be any different now? How am I supposed to wait until next week?! I really fear that, as a fan of Michael and Jane/Michael, I wont be happy either way. 

I just imagine it being very "Yeah, glad your memory is back Michael. Sucks that you were kidnapped, tortured, and brain damaged, but your wife and step son and basically everyone except your jerk parents are happier without you around, so... if you could just go away, that would be swell."

The Petra and Jane story was really sweet, and I loved them calling each other sisters. I do always find the dynamics between Mateo and the twins and Raf to be weird, and something that is just going to get weirder as they get older. They all live really close to each other and are also close in age, but Mateo lives in the modest house with Jane and has a pretty low key lifestyle, while the twins live in the fancy hotel and have this super fancy life of nannies and designer clothes and such. But on the other hand, while he might deny it, Raf is clearly more connected with Mateo and Jane than Petra and the twins, and seems to spend a lot more time with them and generally prioritizes those relationships. Which makes sense with Jane, as Jane is his girlfriend, but I can imagine the girls growing up feeling that they're the back up family to their dads "real" family. Plus the fact that half the time people talk like Mateo is an only child, its just a weird dynamic that I can see having a LOT of problems. And thats even before the kids can figure out all the batshit crazy that led to any of their contraception's and family histories in the first place!

[natyxg]

14 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Of course, that leads to the question of what happens now. Does he go back to his Jason life? Does he bang on the door and tell Jane? Because while Jane was fine with leaving Jason and settling back into her life with Raf and Mateo, is she so fine with leaving Michael? I have a terrible feeling that ether Michael will leave and not tell her so she wont be conflicted about being with Raf, but I dont know. It seems like Jane is just fine without Michael now, and him coming back was basically just a big annoyance to her relationship with Raf, so will it be any different now? How am I supposed to wait until next week?! I really fear that, as a fan of Michael and Jane/Michael, I wont be happy either way. 

I just imagine it being very "Yeah, glad your memory is back Michael. Sucks that you were kidnapped, tortured, and brain damaged, but your wife and step son and basically everyone except your jerk parents are happier without you around, so... if you could just go away, that would be swell."

Whenever you're trying to anticipate what will happen next in a show, think of what will bring the most drama or conflict. So, no, pretty sure Michael won't just go home to Montana (or if he does he'll come back). Jane WILL know he got his memories back and be conflicted, etc.

I do agree though, that you probably won't be happy either way because I'm pretty sure that the endgame is Rafael and Jane. It always has been. Personally, I think this is the first time that I'm wishing they weren't. This "Michael is back storyline" is just not cool and I suspect they're gonna wrap it up in a way that will piss me off even more than I am right now.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Jason showed up out of the blue unannounced and scared Mateo, that was the moment I became convinced that he was evil. Why else would he traumatize a kid like that, especially after Jane specifically told me that she didn't want to upset Mateo by having him see Michael?

And the fact that he refused to respect Jane's boundaries by continuing to pester her for a date just reinforced the idea that Jason was kind of a jerk. He also didn't listen to her when she said she didn't want to go fishing so yeah. She should have counter-offered with his original suggestion to get sushi or Japanese. At least that way she would be in a public place, she could leave at any time (instead of being trapped on a boat), and it would only take about an hour. I also didn't like the reasoning he gave Raf for wanting this date which sounded like he just wanted to take back his property.

I liked that Rafael reminded Jane that the reason he got his real estate job was so that she could write, not work extra shifts at the Marbella.

When Rogelio admitted that River deserved every penny that she was being paid, I wondered why he never thought to ask for a producer credit (and the commensurate payment) since he was the one who brought the project to American television.

Ha, I loved the imaginary kiddie fight between Rafael and Jason.

I also loved Jane and Petra clearing the air. I like them as friends but I understand why Petra felt left out. It sucked that she could see Jane was going through something major but wouldn't discuss it with her.

[MajesticMariposa]

50 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When Jason showed up out of the blue unannounced and scared Mateo

But he didn't. Jason lived at the Marabella. It was his right to be there. He had no idea Mateo would be there. It was a complete accident/coincidence. And did he even know what Mateo looked like to avoid him if they crossed paths at the Marabella? Maybe someone should have given him a heads up.

[Lady Calypso]

Hey everyone. Reminder to keep any spoiler talk out of these episode threads. That also includes hints of spoilers. Bring any spoiler talk to the Spoiler and Speculation thread. Posts have been hidden accordingly. Thanks!

[Bouffe]

A bit of a slower episode for me, but it was still enjoyable!

Brett is a great actor - he really made me believe that Jason was just a big huge a-hole. The way he was pushing Jane to go on a date with him was just making me more and more uncomfortable. Great stuff by Brett.

I absolutely loved the kiddie fight between Raphael and Jason. How much fun must that have been to film?

My absolute favourite scene was the Petra and Jane scene in the tent. I love that Petra and Jane have become great friends, sisters as they said. Loved how they finally settled in like schoolgirls and started talking about everything that's been happening. The growth from Petra has been great to witness.

Rogelio is always good for some awesome one liners and over the top drama, but I really can care less about his plot line with River.

[nilyank]

2 hours ago, MajesticMariposa said:

But he didn't. Jason lived at the Marabella. It was his right to be there. He had no idea Mateo would be there. It was a complete accident/coincidence. And did he even know what Mateo looked like to avoid him if they crossed paths at the Marabella? Maybe someone should have given him a heads up.

That situation could have been avoided if Jane and Rafael sat down and told Mateo what was going on. It had been three weeks and Jane has been trying to get Michael's memory back.

[BAH]

I absolutely LOVE the River character lol. My husband and I were cracking up at her face. 

I also don’t think Jason meant to intentionally out himself to Mateo,  and I liked that the conversation it engendered showed realistic, age-appropriate feelings. 

To me, Jason wasn’t an a-hole, just a pushy dim-witted cowboy 🤠 .  Just my opinion of course. 

[Lady Calypso]

21 minutes ago, Bouffe said:

I absolutely loved the kiddie fight between Raphael and Jason. How much fun must that have been to film?

Brett Dier just posted a behind the scenes clip of him and Justin doing a take of that scene and it truly is hilarious:

[gesundheit]

All I know is that even though Michael now remembers being Michael and will presumably be a cat person again, he better not get rid of Bo! Bo is awesome!

It was really bizarre that everyone was just fine referring to him as "Jason," as if he were an alternate personality instead of just Michael with amnesia. But I really hope we get some bromance scenes with Rogelio now that his memory is back, I felt like Rogelio has been too absent from the story about his favorite person ever.

[gesundheit]

1 hour ago, BAH said:

To me, Jason wasn’t an a-hole, just a pushy dim-witted cowboy 🤠 .  Just my opinion of course. 

Yeah, I think one thing that keeps getting forgotten is that he only has a few years of life experience and most of them were in relative solitude or at least with fairly minimal human interaction. Dude didn't even know what a space bar was, so how did he have time to learn the boundaries and social mores of an adult man? And how would anyone understand the boundaries involved in being told you have a wife and this epic romance and a network full of people who care about you but who also resent your re-emergence?

[mrsh]

I'm so happy Michael has his memories back. I yelled and started sobbing once the snow cane doelwn and all his memories flashed. Brett Dier is amazing at conveying his feelings with just his eyes. I can't see this not being a Jane/Michael endgame and I pray the writers won'tdl disappoint. I know the traditional telenovela ending would be Jane/Rafael, but that's predictable and writers have changed the ending gor American television, ie Ugly Betty. The love story between Jane/Michael is epic and meant to be, in a way that Jane/Rafael just isn't. 

[JyDanzig]

So, anyone else disgusted by the way violence against women was used as the comic relief in a story about gender pay parity?

The misfires on this show are rare, but when they happen, they're huge.  In my view, they've only ever done three truly terrible stories: Petra's paralysis, Rogelio's captivity by his obsessed stalker, and now the recurring subjection of River to violence and mutilation.

And they all failed in the exact same way, by asking us to laugh at the characters as they suffered an ongoing and severe trauma, at the point of the story when it wasn't clear that the trauma was ever going to end.

The way JtV is usually successful at finding the humor in trauma is by having the victims find it themselves.  But I don't want to be invited to laugh mockingly at characters who are coping with the fear that they will be imprisoned for the rest of their lives and never get to be with their loved ones again, or who have been physically brutalized in a way that could end their career, at the very moment they reach the peak after a lifetime of working for it.

Ask us to laugh at them then, and it's punching down, there's such a mean maliciousness to it that so deeply betrays the spirit of everything else happening on this show.

And holy hell, the sheer violence of that kick to her face.  Brutal.  My full expectation for the end of the episode was that Rogelio's career was going to end because of the scandal, and the show would go on to be a huge hit as "The Passions Of Brenda", with his character cut after the pilot.  I though this was bringing us to a final season story for Rogelio of: who is he without his career, now that he's ruined it because of his own inexcusable pettiness and tantrums?

And then to handwave it away as a cutesy, fun thing after the commercials.  God, that edit of the three times Rogelio injured her truly made me sick.  Grotesque.

Love the show otherwise!  JtV is so often trying to do a very large number of extremely difficult things, so to expect no failures is unrealistic, but eesh.  They could at least stop making this mistake, it's clear how this route has been going wrong at this point!

Edited April 11, 2019 by JyDanzig

[BAH]

I must have missed something. Why does Petra have all the money (nannies; exclusive schools), and Rafael seems to have none?? Thanks in advance

Not sure how an accidental kick in the face can be construed as “violence against women.” And I speak as a victim of violence at the hands of a male. I think they’re making River’s trauma comedic because she will get Hers in the end; eg the People cover. She is no meek victim. 

Also, Agneska the crazy twin paralyzed Petra with a tranquilizer—how is that violence against women? No force was involved at all. 

On the third count—the female stalker—I agree it was an unnecessary plot. Maybe they were trying to give Jaime some drama to react to. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by BAH
respond to comments

[JyDanzig]

43 minutes ago, BAH said:

Not sure how an accidental kick in the face can be construed as “violence against women.” And I speak as a victim of violence at the hands of a male. I think they’re making River’s trauma comedic because she will get Hers in the end; eg the People cover. She is no meek victim.

I feel like the answer is in your own post.  It was a forceful kick to the face.  It doesn't have to be intentional to be violent.

I just recalled that during the end of the episode, I was wondering if Rogelio would ultimately kill River (accidentally of course), and if her death would also be treated as a laugh riot.  That shouldn't seem like the possible next beat to the story for one of the hero characters.

43 minutes ago, BAH said:

Also, Agneska the crazy twin paralyzed Petra with a tranquilizer—how is that violence against women? No force was involved at all.

Yes, I was including that as an example of a story that failed because it treated trauma with inappropriate lightness, not as an example of physical violence against women.

Edited April 11, 2019 by JyDanzig

[Guest]

God, Brett Dier has the ability to rip my beating heart out of my chest. That revelation was a whopper. I'm glad he's done playing Jason because the whole "wouldn't it be hilarious if Brett had to play Michael as a socially oblivious cowboy" gag was wearing thin.

Michael's return feels like tasting ice cream for the first time after dieting for four years. I was totally fine with Jane/Rafael, but now that he's returned and finally shed the irritating Jason layer, I desperately want what the writers have apparently decided were no longer allowed to have. Maybe it's because I think Justin is a much weaker actor than Brett despite his steady improvement over the seasons, but now Jane and Rafael's entire dynamic just feels like wet soggy cardboard in comparison to what she had and could have again with Michael. Jane just doesn't have the same magnetic chemistry or electricity with Rafael. Gina and Brett have oceans of chemistry. I get the writers are trying to go out with a bang, but reanimating the love triangle and unintentionally highlighting how weak your assumed endgame couple is is risky business.

Thank God for no Rose! And I'm still nervous that they might kill off Xo.

I need Rogelio to reunite with Michael ASAP because this River Shields feud is getting stale/giving me whiplash.

[twoods]

Jason telling Jane he must have been a good guy if she loved him absolutely gutted me, and then when he got his memories back the tears kept coming. No matter what the writers try to sell, Gina and Brett have ridiculous chemistry.

Edited April 11, 2019 by twoods

[BAH]

45 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Michael's return feels like tasting ice cream for the first time after dieting for four years.

Gina and Brett have oceans of chemistry.

Thank God for no Rose! And I'm still nervous that they might kill off Xo.

I need Rogelio to reunite with Michael ASAP 

God I hope they don’t kill off Xo. 😞 

I can’t WAIT for the first Brogelio encounter!

”Oceans of chemistry”...so beautifully put; almost makes me want to cry again.

Love the 🍦 🍨  metaphor. 

Also enjoy your username.  I may steal some day. 

[Simba122504]

15 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When Jason showed up out of the blue unannounced and scared Mateo, that was the moment I became convinced that he was evil. Why else would he traumatize a kid like that, especially after Jane specifically told me that she didn't want to upset Mateo by having him s I onlyee Michael?

And the fact that he refused to respect Jane's boundaries by continuing to pester her for a date just reinforced the idea that Jason was kind of a jerk. He also didn't listen to her when she said she didn't want to go fishing so yeah. She should have counter-offered with his original suggestion to get sushi or Japanese. At least that way she would be in a public place, she could leave at any time (instead of being trapped on a boat), and it would only take about an hour. I also didn't like the reasoning he gave Raf for wanting this date which sounded like he just wanted to take back his property.

I liked that Rafael reminded Jane that the reason he got his real estate job was so that she could write, not work extra shifts at the Marbella.

When Rogelio admitted that River deserved every penny that she was being paid, I wondered why he never thought to ask for a producer credit (and the commensurate payment) since he was the one who brought the project to American television.

Ha, I loved the imaginary kiddie fight between Rafael and Jason.

I also loved Jane and Petra clearing the air. I like them as friends but I understand why Petra felt left out. It sucked that she could see Jane was going through something major but wouldn't discuss it with her.

That's what's unrealistic about the whole R/R thing. It's his series they're remaking. His baby so to speak. He would have more power than her and even get paid more. Yes, the pay gap is a serious issue but this a situation the person who put in all the work to get project made would usually have more say and power. I love Brett as Jason. He kills me every time. So goddamn hilarious. I'm glad the memory recover happened this early. And since it's a telenovela, every time things are too good between J/R some shit pops off. The soapy telenovela rollercoaster called their relationship continues. I need a meta scene about that. I enjoyed the J/M history scene because I'm a sucker for those kind of scenes. Also good acting by Brett. The P/J scene was badly needed. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Simba122504

[Fireball]

Soooo I feel like I'm the only one not excited about Michael's return.  I have no interest in revisiting the love triangle. I hated the stupid thing before and I stopped watching because of it. In the last season of the show, I see no reason to revisit the love triangle again.

I also don't see any way the writers get themselves out of the corner they have put themselves in. There's no way for everyone to have a happy ending now.  Jane ends up with Michael--- No happy ending for Rafael.. Jane ends up with Rafael--- No happy ending for Michael.   I think the Jane finds an epic love and then finds love again after her husband died was a much more interesting story then yet again having her choose between Rafael and Michael. 

[UGAmp]

I thought this was the strongest episode of the season so far. I’ve been really disappointed and frustrated by Jane’s reaction (mainly her annoyance) to her freaking husband and love of her life being back from the dead. But Michael remembering he’s Michael was so worth it this amnesia plot. I’m Team Michael and was very ready to give up on the show before his return at the end of last season. I too cannot wait for the Rogelio and Michael reunion (probably more than the Michael and Jane reunion).

Kid actors can be the worst but I think the twins and Mateo do a pretty decent job.  I think one of the funnier moments was one of the twins crossing her arms and firmly saying “Don’t touch my body” after being taught to do so by Petra. Then in the tent when Jane grabbed Petra’s arm, The way Yael said “Don’t touch my body” with an arm movement just made me crack up. As the show has gone on, Petra really has become one of my favorite characters. 

[MajesticMariposa]

35 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I have never, ever enjoyed Gina and Justin together as much. Justin is a fine actor, but somehow I never caught the "great passion" between the two of them, and frankly, in this episode, the scene of the two of them in bed together, afterwards, kind of icked me out.  LOL. 

I completely agree. I've always gotten a "sibling vibe" between Gina and Justin that has always turned me off from seeing Jane and Raf as a romantic pairing. I also feel icky whenever they kiss, etc. During S3 when they were just friends is the only time I really enjoyed seeing them on screen together. I also find Baldoni's acting to be wooden (better than S1, but still not good). Even though I know chemistry is subjective, sometimes I wonder how much the preference for Raf is because Justin is the objective "hot" one. It's something I see in most movies/shows, and I wonder if that will ever not be the case.

[BonnieD]

Screw love triangles, maybe they'll just end up in a multiple-partner relationship. A happy threesome....that's the end game, lol.
I was always team Jane/Michael but am absolutely certain they will write her with Raphael at the end. She has progressed too far since M's death for things to ever go back to the way they were. He should go off to Montana and leave her be for her own best interest. But of course that won't happen, or if it does he won't be allowed to stay away for some reason. 
Then there's the issue of him being like a father to Mateo. Now his memories are back that has to factor in as well.  What a mess! It's like a telenovela, right?

[cardigirl]

I apologize for not following the rules of the forum. I’ll stick to discussing episodes only. 

I forgot how much I enjoyed Jane and Petra’s email chat exchange about articles for dealing with their kids’ spat. Hilarious! 

[Lady Calypso]

32 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I forgot how much I enjoyed Jane and Petra’s email chat exchange about articles for dealing with their kids’ spat. Hilarious! 

Between that and Rafael's imagination of his fight with Jason, there really were some solid moments. I know I'm annoyed by the Love Triangle stuff, but this show still is pretty good with balancing their humor and making it entertaining. 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, MajesticMariposa said:

I completely agree. I've always gotten a "sibling vibe" between Gina and Justin that has always turned me off from seeing Jane and Raf as a romantic pairing. I also feel icky whenever they kiss, etc. During S3 when they were just friends is the only time I really enjoyed seeing them on screen together. I also find Baldoni's acting to be wooden (better than S1, but still not good). Even though I know chemistry is subjective, sometimes I wonder how much the preference for Raf is because Justin is the objective "hot" one. It's something I see in most movies/shows, and I wonder if that will ever not be the case.

Yes! You've articulated something about Jane/Rafael that I've had trouble putting my finger on for the longest time. That's why he kind of made me chuckle that the central plot of this episode was supposedly them losing their spark because I was thinking "wait, isn't that...how they always interact?" Also, because Brett's acting is more natural/emotive, Michael comes off as being much more emotionally intelligent and empathetic than Rafael, which in my opinion lends itself to a complex and layered romantic tension with Jane. I think some viewers will always be team Raf because he's her son's father/the sexy forbidden fruit from the beginning. Their pairing definitely suffers from Gina acting circles around Justin and the fact that Justin seems mechanical during all of their sweeping romantic moments.

It's funny that you say that Justin is the hot one. I know he's eye candy, but Justin is just such a cheesy goober that I've never been attracted to him at all. Brett, on the other hand, could literally charm the pants of me with a single smile. He is so sexy to me. I'm sure Justin is a lovely man and being a gym rat is fine, but the way Brett is so emotionally in tune with Gina and Michael himself is such a turn on.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 4/11/2019 at 9:34 AM, gesundheit said:

It was really bizarre that everyone was just fine referring to him as "Jason," as if he were an alternate personality instead of just Michael with amnesia.

I didn't think it was weird. I thought that they were trying to respect the person who they were dealing with and he said, "I go by Jason now." If they had kept calling him Michael, it would have felt disrespectful because that would mean that they were completely disregarding what the person in front of them had told them.

[BAH]

7 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

 Brett, on the other hand, could literally charm the pants of me with a single smile. 

Snapping my fingers in agreement.  I think Brett is kind of dorky/froggy looking sometimes, but he really rings my bell 🛎 anyway!   Part of it is, his phenomenal acting is a turn on!!  That said, it appears he’s a huge silly goober in real life. Which we sometimes see in JTV, but not to that crazy extent.  

I also think Yael is a phenomenal actor, btw. 

[thelegacies87]

If I had to guess, I don't think Michael is telling Jane he remembers just yet. I bet it is at least an episode or two. My hope is, that instead of going straight to Jane, he goes to Rogelio! That way, we get some of that old chemistry explosion and a nice, new interesting story for Ro and Xo that isn't Rivers/show related. Michael will come to them, not sure what he should do(tell Jane he's back or let her live her life) and Xo and Ro will obviously have different opinions(Xo, while loving Michael, doesn't want upheaval in Jane's life) and creates comedy situations with Jane as they try to hide him in their house whenever she comes over that episode.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, thelegacies87 said:

If I had to guess, I don't think Michael is telling Jane he remembers just yet. I bet it is at least an episode or two. My hope is, that instead of going straight to Jane, he goes to Rogelio! That way, we get some of that old chemistry explosion and a nice, new interesting story for Ro and Xo that isn't Rivers/show related. Michael will come to them, not sure what he should do(tell Jane he's back or let her live her life) and Xo and Ro will obviously have different opinions(Xo, while loving Michael, doesn't want upheaval in Jane's life) and creates comedy situations with Jane as they try to hide him in their house whenever she comes over that episode.

Michael and Rogelio sneaking around/Michael badly trying to channel Jason would be hilarious, so I hope they go that route instead of the immediate angsty reveal.