Season 5: Speculation

[Pogojoco]

Someone brought it up it would be fascinating if Sansa ever discovered what LF did to Jeyne.

Also what he did to her father. I`m rather looking forward to it. 

[Mormegil]

I hope it's just Jaqen's face being put on by the Kindly Man, not that he's the same person.

 

Can't recall his exact words in the book but the show did have "Jaqen" say that if she wanted to find Him to use the coin.

 

 

What they may end up doing is leave it unclear if it is indeed the same person who helped Arya previously or a new person just using the same face.

[benteen]

Also what he did to her father. I`m rather looking forward to it. 

 

Yes, you're right.  That would be much more interesting.

 

I'm still surprised she hasn't heard about it though and no one outside of the throne room seems to know about LF's betrayal.

[Winnief]

 

 

Yes, you're right.  That would be much more interesting.

I'm still surprised she hasn't heard about it though and no one outside of the throne room seems to know about LF's betrayal.

 

D&D are probably saving it for dramatic purposes-note that on the show, (unlike the book,) Sansa never hears Lysa's confession regarding her poisoning her husband and blaming the Lannisters for it on LF's instructions.  Yet another good reason to turn on Baelish since he literally started the whole damn war...

[Lady S.]

Can't recall his exact words in the book but the show did have "Jaqen" say that if she wanted to find Him to use the coin.

 

 

What they may end up doing is leave it unclear if it is indeed the same person who helped Arya previously or a new person just using the same face.

Yeah, I noticed he said the coin would find him when they re-showed that scene before 4.10, but checking the text now he does say "find me again" there too. I hadn't remembered it that way just because they don't meet again (yet) in the books, but the dialogue in that scene is pretty much straight book lines.

[mac123x]

Yeah, I noticed he said the coin would find him when they re-showed that scene before 4.10, but checking the text now he does say "find me again" there too. I hadn't remembered it that way just because they don't meet again (yet) in the books, but the dialogue in that scene is pretty much straight book lines.

 

My head-canon is that the Faceless Man who gives Arya her first death assignment in ADWD is Jaqen.  I don't know why I think that because there is nothing to support it, and some circumsantial evidence that he's currently posing as Pate in the Citadel.

 

I do want them to run into each other eventually.  I could see the show having her meet him when she arrives in Braavos, and him introducing her to the Kindly Man and the Waif.  Basically use him to explain how she gets enrolled at the School for Gifted Assassins.

[Sew Sumi]

Just saw this on WiC.net. Not good news for the Stoneheart fans. OR MF is purposely avoiding the spoiler. She sounds pretty emphatic, though. A check of her IMDB might be in order.

 

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/06/25/scene-may-never-happen-game-thrones/

Edited June 26, 2014 by Sew Sumi

[Hecate7]

There is nothing extraneous about Lady Stoneheart. Without her, there's no point to Beric Dondarrion. There's no point to Brienne. It's quite silly to remove her and I can't believe they're really doing it. I could believe, though, since she can barely speak, that she won't be played by Michelle Fairley, because it would be a waste of a good actress to have her play a Zombie.

[Pete Martell]

One of the problems for me is that without Michelle I just don't care. It's some extra with a lot of makeup on, wearing Catelyn's clothes.

 

If they aren't going to do this with Michelle (and I hope she is just having to lie, as that poor woman on How I Met Your Mother had to blatantly lie), I wish they wouldn't do it at all.

[Advance35]

If Stoneheart isn't in it than maybe she really DOESN'T amount to much of note or value.   And by that I mean maybe Jaimie and Brienne escape Stoneheart in a ludicrous manner and D&D were like "Please." and decided to save us some hassle.    I find it hard to believe in the book that Jaimie or Brienne will die in the Lady Stoneheart mess but I also find it completely OOC, that Stoneheart would let Jaimie escape.    I'm still willing to trust D&D to an extent, reminding myself that they know how this ends.   I still don't mind the Jeyne Westerling substitute because now I know she's not out there carrying an heir to the North and in the book we won't see or hear much more from or about House Westerling.   They're traitors and schemers and they got away with it.

 

And I am more convinced than ever that LF will not fall at the hands of Sansa.   I don't think they allowed Sansa to hear LF's confession because ultimately it won't play a part in the fate of either character.   So many fan theories I once subscribed to have been turned on their heads thanks to this show.  Oy.

 

I also don't think we'll get Jeyne Poole.   The cast is already to large and to scattered.    Tyrion is wherever, Dany in Mereen, Arya off to Bravos, Jon, Stannis, Mel at the Wall, Cersei, Margaery, Tommen in Kings Landinag, Brienne and Pod on the road, The Dornish, Littlefinger and Sansa in the Vale.   I don't think there will be enough time to go as thoroughly as the book did.

[Pete Martell]

If they don't have Jeyne then I wonder what they'll do to have Theon break away from Ramsay, unless they just don't do that at all now, and go along with those fans who feel he deserves what he gets. They seem to still be hinting that Theon will get out of his Reek persona, and the North story is going to need more players next season (it was pretty sparse this season), so I guess they may still have someone, even if they don't do the fake Arya story.

 

I still feel like they're setting Sansa up to ultimately defeat LF. I know some feel that they are going to have some sort of sexual relationship between them. I really don't think they will go that far, although who knows.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Pete Martell

[Pogojoco]

"Fake Arya" is not just necessary for Theon's escape from Winterfell, but it's also pretty vital to Jon's ADWD's story. He thinks his sister is being raped and tortured at Winterfell. He tried to push it aside, but the Pink Letter brings it all up (he thinks of all his siblings and every thing that was lost after reading it) and makes him lose it a little bit. Jon announces he is taking a group to Winterfell to deal with Ramsey, and it pretty much leads to him to him getting stabbed. The wildlings through the Wall was most of it, as was helping Stannis. But leading men to Winterfell was the final straw. 

 

"Fake Arya" is in. I honestly think the North stuff is the strongest of the material in the next two books. HBO should worry more about everything else. 

 

ETA- also, Mel telling Jon that she`s seen Arya coming North on a horse forces him into her confidence for a bit. When it turns out to be Alys Karstark, he stops listening to her. She tells him several times he`s going to get stabbed (knives in the dark) and warns to keep his wolf near him, which he dismisses. Given the look Mel gives Jon  through the fire on the show, they are going to play up that interaction. 

Edited June 29, 2014 by Pogojoco

[benteen]

I think Fake Arya is important for Theon because it shows him actually doing an heroic thing and saving Jeyne from Ramsay.

[elzin]

I'm re-reading and haven't gotten that far yet, so I'm just going off my memory of my last read, but part of what made Fake Arya compelling was at first we as readers didn't know she was fake. So unless they don't show Real Arya for a few episodes, Fake Arya loses some of the punch.

 

Then it gets so much worse, regardless of the authenticity of the Arya, that I'm not sure if they're going to go there. I know they don't have rape-aversion, but I wonder... 

 

And like all plots, its exclusion doesn't mean it's not a big huge deal in the books in the future. Its inclusion will be awful to watch. I'm not sure which I'm rooting for.

[SeanC]

I'm re-reading and haven't gotten that far yet, so I'm just going off my memory of my last read, but part of what made Fake Arya compelling was at first we as readers didn't know she was fake.

Yes, we did.  She first appeared in ASOS Jaime IX.  We knew where Arya was then, and it was nowhere near King's Landing.

[elzin]

Ok. Maybe then what I'm misremembering is the "who is it?" aspect. 

 

I think I can be forgiven for forgetting a detail or two from all those thousands of pages. :)

[Avaleigh]

If Stoneheart isn't in it than maybe she really DOESN'T amount to much of note or value.   And by that I mean maybe Jaimie and Brienne escape Stoneheart in a ludicrous manner and D&D were like "Please." and decided to save us some hassle.    I find it hard to believe in the book that Jaimie or Brienne will die in the Lady Stoneheart mess but I also find it completely OOC, that Stoneheart would let Jaimie escape.    I'm still willing to trust D&D to an extent, reminding myself that they know how this ends.   I still don't mind the Jeyne Westerling substitute because now I know she's not out there carrying an heir to the North and in the book we won't see or hear much more from or about House Westerling.   They're traitors and schemers and they got away with it.

 

And I am more convinced than ever that LF will not fall at the hands of Sansa.   I don't think they allowed Sansa to hear LF's confession because ultimately it won't play a part in the fate of either character.   So many fan theories I once subscribed to have been turned on their heads thanks to this show.  Oy.

 

I also don't think we'll get Jeyne Poole.   The cast is already to large and to scattered.    Tyrion is wherever, Dany in Mereen, Arya off to Bravos, Jon, Stannis, Mel at the Wall, Cersei, Margaery, Tommen in Kings Landinag, Brienne and Pod on the road, The Dornish, Littlefinger and Sansa in the Vale.   I don't think there will be enough time to go as thoroughly as the book did.

Re: LS, Jaime, Brienne--it does give me hope for Jaime but it is going to suck if the detour is a complete waste of time.

I think Freys can be killed without LS and agree that there isn't any point in having the character played by a different actress. A recast for a character like Daario or Tommen or Myrcella, those are things I can easily understand and get behind but with a character like Lady Stoneheart IMO one has to be able a glimpse of what Catelyn used to be otherwise it just doesn't work. I wouldn't expect for characters who knew her before to recognize her and I don't want to have to suspend disbelief in this case.

I can totally empathize when it comes to having busted theories. I was so into Oberyn poisoned Tywin and it was completely crushed this season, even the Ellaria angle. Even if they do keep the smelly, smiling corpse, some of the sting is taken out of it for me if the Martells didn't at least get that bit of revenge.

I still think Sansa is going to be Littlefinger's downfall but I can also see a scenario where he basically screws himself over, seals his own fate and Sansa ends up being a bystander or maybe fails to speak in his favor when she easily could. Their stories are so entwined at this point it's hard to imagine Sansa not having something to do with his likely/hopefully violent death.

If they had time for pointless Myranda they can find time for Jeyne Poole next season. Similarly, I'd have preferred having had the Jeyne Poole character established in the first and second seasons as opposed to the Ros character.

[Holmbo]

The amount of "groundwork" in season 4 for Dany's book material is really not that huge.  Hizdahr showed up for one scene, the dragons were chained (oh, and I guess Dany banged Daario).  The idea that they're going to run through Dany's entire ADWD story (and Tyrion's), plus the battle of Meereen, and the aftermath, seems a little far-fetched to me.  Particularly as Dany's story doesn't exist in a vacuum.  It's tied to the pacing of a bunch of other stories, and the rest of the show seems poised to end Season 5 at the end of AFFC/ADWD (Bran and Sansa excepted, and in Bran's case he has so little story that they really didn't have a choice).  There are many stories whose paces can be rejigged without too much trouble, but I rather doubt that Dany showing up in Westeros with her dragons and army is one of them.

 

I was gonna write that it's not that much in Dany's arc but when I started to write it all there's quiet a lot to cover. In the book there's the unrest of the Harpy and Dany resolving it by marrying Hizdar and resfusing Quentyn, there's the fighting pit stuff and Dany being lost in the Dothraki sea, then her riding Drogon and finding a Khalasar which she then presumably brings back to Meeren. Meanwhile in Meeren Quentyn frees the dragons, and later there's a battle.

But I think it could fit in one season. Since KL has some few people left I don't think there will be as much focus there. Instead the main focus on the season will be the wall, winterfell and Mereen. Dany could be in almost every episode with the battle at ep 9 or 10.

My thought is:

ep1. Unrest in Mereen with assinations and killings.

ep2. Dany tries to think of ways to deal with the unrest including taking hostages, at the end of the ep Hizdar comes with marriage offer.

ep4. Dany contemplates marrying Hizdar. At the end of the ep some unsullied are killed including Grey Worm (naw) which makes Dany agree to marriage.

ep5. Quentyn comes to offer the Dornish alliance and the marriage. Dany refuses (it could be that Quentyn is cut but we don't know yet).

ep6. Dany marrys Hizdar and their marriage celebration is celebrated by re opening the fighting pits (during the season some small scenes of requests of opening the fighting pit could be included). Tyrion might or might not be in the fighting pits, it's not important for the plot. But it ends with Dany flying away on Drogon.

ep7. Dany is lost in the Dothraki sea. Barristan dealing with stuff in Mereen and Quentyn trying to steal the dragons. Meanwhile Dany is suffering from hunger and dehydration and possible miscarriage. Hopefully we'll get some hallucinations of her talking to Viserys.

ep8. I don't remember exactly how she meets the Dothraki in the book but she encounters them on Drogon somehow.

ep.9 Batle of Mereen, probably not the whole ep. Dany arrives at the end with Drogon and Dothraki to turn the tie. I read some sample chapter of WoW but I didn't really get how the battle was going but I think in the show Dany's side will be loosing until she shows up. I also think that Dario will have Ben Plumms role from the book and be the one interacting with Tyrion. 

ep 10. Aftermath of the battle. Tyrion and Dany meet (some interview with GRRM linked on this site made it seem like he didn't plan to have them meet anytime soon but hopefully the show will remedy this).

Anyways it does get kinda rushed and as you wrote there's other story lines to take into consideration. My thought is that Dany's time in the Dothraki sea would make her decide to head for Westeros. Events there might not have moved along fast enough for them to be ready for Dany's arrival plotwise.

But I can't see them have the battle of Mereen in the beging of a season. They'd need some filler to move the battle farther to the end of season six then. Perhaps they could have Drogon snatch up Tyrion as Dany flies away on him and then have half a season of Dany and Tyrion survival road trip in the Dothraki sea. That would be hilarious. :)

Edited June 27, 2014 by Holmbo

[Haleth]

Regarding Stoneheart I'm hoping Michelle is just putting up a smoke screen so her appearance will be a shock to everyone.  Personally I think she's very important to the story; the rage of the Stark clan embodied in one undead Cat. I suppose she could be replaced by a still not dead Dondarrion, but using Beric instead of Cat to wage a guerilla war against the Freys would not be nearly as satisfying.

 

I was amusing myself the other day thinking of 101 Uses for an Undead Cat, aka How Many Ways to Kill a Frey.

[debi49]

Re; Sam/Gilly/Aemon storyline....

 

Peter Vaughn is great as Maester Aemon, but he is 90+ years old, so I'm sure they are concerned about that and will want to tell the story this season, if it all.

[Brn2bwild]

Regarding Stoneheart I'm hoping Michelle is just putting up a smoke screen so her appearance will be a shock to everyone.  Personally I think she's very important to the story; the rage of the Stark clan embodied in one undead Cat. I suppose she could be replaced by a still not dead Dondarrion, but using Beric instead of Cat to wage a guerilla war against the Freys would not be nearly as satisfying.

 

I sure hope you're right.  Speaking of smokescreen, I wonder if D&D's commitment to 7 seasons isn't one as well.  It could operate both as a warning to George RR Martin (we're not going to do 15 seasons just so you can meander) and also an out in case they can't renegotiate all of the 7-year contracts.

[Hecate7]

What I want to see Season Five:

 

1) fake Arya at Winterfell while real Arya trains.

2) Lots of Arya's training--I don't mind if they embroider it a lot. Maisie Williams is one of the show's best assets.

3) Penny. I don't care what anyone says, Tyrion needs her. He needs to be shown caring about a woman he's not interested in bedding, and he needs to be brought face to face with someone who has every reason to lament the same problems Tyrion has AND MORE, who hasn't actually murdered anybody over it. I suspect she's more important to the plot than anyone guesses at this point.

4) Tommen's wedding and Cersei's feud with Margaery.

5) Lady Stoneheart. It's silly not to have her--she's a very pivotal character, even if she's not a plum role.

6) Danaerys' rescue of Drogon, near the end of the season. Someone's attempt to tame Viserion--don't care if it's Quentyn or Trystane or who.

7) Wyman Manderly FTW!

8) Myrcella's mishap.

 

Things I really don't care about: anything that doesn't relate to the characters we've already met. New characters are fine insofar as our old characters meet and interact with and are affected by them, like Penny, Maggie the Frog, Fake Arya, Quentyn Martell, & Wyman Manderly. Even cousin Jenna, Lady Dustin, and Lady Stoneheart's companions are fine. But Euron, Victarion, assorted Martells interacting too far from the main action, these all put me right to sleep. Arianne Martell never emerged for me as a person--she's not nearly as interesting to me as Sansa, Margaery, or Danaerys. I don't much care about Mya Stone or any of those people, either--that whole trip down the mountain feels like filler except for Robin's seizures and the clear implication that Littlefinger is killing him, or is going to.

[Premislaus]

I still think Stoneheart thing is a smokescreen. There's precedence with shows declaring loud and clearly certain characters dead only to reveal them as living (won't be giving examples in order to not spoil). Technically only book readers should care about her but you can bet some intern would make a "Michelle Fairley set for shock GoT return" and that's something the producers would likely want to avoid.

[Avaleigh]

Why wouldn't the Unsullied just think Catelyn could be returning for either a dream or flashback sequence? They've already set up the possibility with Bran glimpsing Ned from last season.

[Pete Martell]

I think if there's a con going on now it's about fooling the people who are expecting her to show up, moreso than people who wouldn't be expecting it. 

[jellysalmon]

I wonder how/if they will incorporate Maggy the Frog. The show does so much more to make Cersei sympathetic in the first three books, but the revelation about Maggy the Frog explains so much about who Cersei is and why she treats certain people they way she does. I guess they could just do a drunken recollection, but there are so many of those already on this show. I know it's cliche, but I wouldn't mind a flashback or two.

[Winnief]

 

I wonder how/if they will incorporate Maggy the Frog. The show does so much more to make Cersei sympathetic in the first three books, but the revelation about Maggy the Frog explains so much about who Cersei is and why she treats certain people they way she does. I guess they could just do a drunken recollection, but there are so many of those already on this show. I know it's cliche, but I wouldn't mind a flashback or two.

 

Could be a dream or maybe a vision on Bran's part.  I'm betting we'll see a lot of Bran visions next season to pave the way for the Big Reveal about Jon...or they may be setting it up for Mel to stumble on the truth.

[Avaleigh]

I think if the choice is between dream or weirwood flashback, I'llgo with Cersei dreaming about the prophecy since there are so many other things I'd like to have Bran see. I don't even really see the point of Bran learning about that story. How would it help him or anyone else?

The main reason I don't think Melisandre will stumble upon the truth about Jon is because she's so committed to seeing what she wants to see and seems practically willing to bury her head in the sand when it comes to the idea of AAR. She looks into the flames and seems to be a fire priestess who is looking for evidence to support the idea that Stannis is AAR rather than a priestess who is looking into the flames to simply gain knowledge without it suiting her particular agenda. I just can't help but think that Moqorro would have had a very different take on Jon, Stannis, Alys, etc.

Another reason, very possibly the main reason, I want Victarion kept is because of Moqorro. I suppose he could somehow tag along with Tyrion and Varys but IMO that sounds kind of lame. I want Moqorro to be kept because I want people to be able to compare Mel with another worshipper of the red god, someone other than Thoros of Myr.

[that one guy]

 

There is nothing extraneous about Lady Stoneheart. Without her, there's no point to Beric Dondarrion. There's no point to Brienne.

The thing is, we don't know for sure whether or not  there is any point to these characters - ASOIAF is so huge and sprawling at this point, there's no way to know which people are most important at the end. We have faith that GRRM is doing something with these narrative threads, and that there will be payoff in the Winds of Winter. But so far Lady Stoneheart has had two scenes. I don't really think the character has been eliminated - I think she will be introduced when the show adapts the relevant material from TWOW. So I'd speculate the earliest she'd show up is hanging Brienne in the last episode of Season 5 or maybe Episode 2 of Season 6 depending on how these things play out. I'd kill her at the end of S5 and then have her shockingly show up early in S6 to lure Jaime into whatever awaits him in TWOW - but this is assuming she does something important in TWOW. If she doesn't, they should continue to leave her out. Had she been introduced in "The Children" there's be literally one scene in Season 4, and one scene in Season 5, and the showrunners just aren't going to do that.

 

It's obvious at this point that they're doing Dorne next season (from interviews and articles where they explicitly say "we're doing Dorne." I think we'll see Jaime and Bronn go there with the fake Mountain head to start the season, which will delay Jaime's arrival in the riverlands and the return of Edmure and the Blackfish, all of which has to happen before he runs into Brienne. So I don't think we'll be seing any sign of LSH or the Brotherhood Without Banners for a while.

 

Also I think D&D just don't like the Greyjoys. I'm torn. I'd like more Yara on the show, but the caricature that is Victarion would be out of place in the more grounded world of the show. It seems like a lot of exposition and goofiness just to get Dany a horn. But the out of control dragons are a plot point already, so she probably needs to get it somehow - but I predict there will be a simpler way of finding it on the show. Maybe Tyrion will find it? Or maybe Arya will discover she's a warg and tame the dragons that way.

 

And I don't think Young Griff will be eliminated entirely. At the end of ADWD he's invading Westeros at the head of an army. That's a little bit harder to cut out of the story than a zombie hanging a couple of wandering sellswords! Unless they want to cut directly to Dany invading Westeros, combining the two invasions, like the two battles at Castle Black. But that only works if Dany DOES invade Westeros, which is pure speculation, on the part of everyone, at the moment. Maybe she conquers Volantis and founds New Valyria instead 

[Winnief]

 

 

Also I think D&D just don't like the Greyjoys. I'm torn. I'd like more Yara on the show, but the caricature that is Victarion would be out of place in the more grounded world of the show. It seems like a lot of exposition and goofiness just to get Dany a horn. But the out of control dragons are a plot point already, so she probably needs to get it somehow - but I predict there will be a simpler way of finding it on the show. Maybe Tyrion will find it? Or maybe Arya will discover she's a warg and tame the dragons that way.

And I don't think Young Griff will be eliminated entirely. At the end of ADWD he's invading Westeros at the head of an army. That's a little bit harder to cut out of the story than a zombie hanging a couple of wandering sellswords! Unless they want to cut directly to Dany invading Westeros, combining the two invasions, like the two battles at Castle Black. But that only works if Dany DOES invade Westeros, which is pure speculation, on the part of everyone, at the moment. Maybe she conquers Volantis and founds New Valyria instead

 

I agree about D&D vis a vis the Greyjoys.  They just consider the Viking parodies too over the top.  That, (and the fact that Dany already has the ships she needs,) convinces me Victarion won't be on the show-though Euron might be, and so may Moqorro to help Dany find a way to control the dragons in any event.  Or someone else tries to steal the dragons with the horn, (an agent for the Harpy's perhaps?  Trystane?) Or perhaps another dragon corralling method entirely will be found.  Plenty of non-Vic possibilities out there.  

 

I really do think Dany will be heading off to Westeros by the end of season 5 to invade.  Unlike Martin, D&D can't afford to keep stalling on that one forever and since prophecy says Dany makes it to Westeros eventually, they're gonna have to show some forward movement on that or risk a viewer revolt.  And remember odds are they only got seven season to fit it all in.  

[Pogojoco]

I think if the choice is between dream or weirwood flashback, I'llgo with Cersei dreaming about the prophecy since there are so many other things I'd like to have Bran see. I don't even really see the point of Bran learning about that story. How would it help him or anyone else?

The main reason I don't think Melisandre will stumble upon the truth about Jon is because she's so committed to seeing what she wants to see and seems practically willing to bury her head in the sand when it comes to the idea of AAR. She looks into the flames and seems to be a fire priestess who is looking for evidence to support the idea that Stannis is AAR rather than a priestess who is looking into the flames to simply gain knowledge without it suiting her particular agenda. I just can't help but think that Moqorro would have had a very different take on Jon, Stannis, Alys, etc.

 

Yeah, I think the ADWD Mel chapter illustrates she has some power, but she's a zealot and an ideologue of the worst kind (dismisses information because it doesn't fit into their worldview.)  "I've been asking for visions of AAR, and all I see is snow." I mean, HELLO? 

 

Howland Reed is the card GRRM hasn't played yet, and I think he (and maybe a Bran/Bloodraven assist) is the way Jon's parentage is going to be revealed in the book. Maybe not to Jon himself, but in general.

 

I dunno re. Stoneheart. It might've been nifty for the Hound and Arya to keep seeing some hanging bodies on their way from the Riverlands to the Vale. Or for Brienne and Pod to see some and think "hmmmm."  Also maybe some rumours re. a giant She-Wolf and a group of smaller wolves creating havoc in the area, in a tavern. Even in the Pod/Brienne tavern scenes.  If the dire wolf/warging angle for Arya is going to be a thing. Which I guess it's not. 

Edited June 30, 2014 by Pogojoco

[Ripley68]

I'm re-reading the books because I realized I had missed a lot. I'm on the 4th book, was planning on skipping all the Greyjoy chapters and most of the Dorne ones because I found them boring, but I guess I'll have to now.  I don't remember the dragon horn, and didn't think anything in Dorne was all that important except for Myrcella getting injured.  I read those last books so fast, I missed more than I thought.

 

What do I want to see - I want them to show that the Hound is definitely dead.  We know he is, but no in the Westeros world does and he is getting blamed for all the stuff the guy who stole his helm is doing.  I want to see the dude try and release the dragons (how else would they get free?), I found that chapter exciting. I want to see Jon's conflict between Winterfell and the Wall. I want to see the amazement when he is nominated as Lord Commander (I haven't finished Season four yet so am unsure if it has happened on TV).  I want Gilly to be made to switch babies.  I want everyone to be dupped by fake Arya and her saved by Theon (presumably).  I  didn't think Ramsay was any worse to FA than anyone else, but maybe I missed something?  Anyway, I pretty much want all the Winterfell scenes kept in.  I DON'T want to see Tyrion and the whole "where do whores go?"  Penny has already been written out, but maybe some other dwarf woman will be written in.  I always assumed the guy training Arya was really Jaquen and the other guy was some other faceless man.  I want to see Sam meet Arya.  I want to see Dany deny the slave pits, but then be defeated and instill them anyway.  I DON'T want to see most of Briennes journey.  I don't want to see the drowned god/choosing a king stuff with the ironborn (snore).  I guess I'm actually going into season 5 and 6.  I want to see Dany fly off on Drogon.

[Winnief]

 

Yeah, I think the ADWD Mel chapter illustrates she has some power, but she's a zealot and an ideologue of the worst kind (dismisses information because it doesn't fit into their worldview.)  "I've been asking for visions of AAR, and all I see is snow." I mean, HELLO?

 

Seriously.  At least Aemon's guess about Dany was based on the actual evidence he had at hand-and even there he was at least part right since Dany clearly is going to play a big role and is one of the Riders.  Still it *is* interesting the way Mel looked at Jon...

 

 

Howland Reed is the card GRRM hasn't played yet, and I think he (and maybe a Bran/Bloodraven assist) is the way Jon's parentage is going to be revealed in the book. Maybe not to Jon himself, but in general.

 

The fact that they had Jojen and Meera specifically mention Howland and that he fought with Ned during RR, does seem pretty damn significant I'll admit.  Howland might be the key to *proving* Jon's heritage-or providing evidence that 

Rhaegar and Lyanna were actually married in the old Targaryen tradition of multiple wives-which would make Jon a legitimate Targ heir.

[Brn2bwild]

Is it weird that because I have such low expectations for post-Storm of Swords material, I'm expecting Season 5 to be awesome?  With Seasons 3 and 4, there was the wait for big iconic moments to arise and then compare them to the books.  With fewer such moments in the remaining material, it feels like the creators have more freedom to create something truly awesome.

[Winnief]

 

Is it weird that because I have such low expectations for post-Storm of Swords material, I'm expecting Season 5 to be awesome?  With Seasons 3 and 4, there was the wait for big iconic moments to arise and then compare them to the books.  With fewer such moments in the remaining material, it feels like the creators have more freedom to create something truly awesome.

 

LOL!  We might be in for a lot more things like the Oathkeeper White Walker reveal and Sansa in The Mountain and the Viper.

[patchwork]

I wont be surprised if we don't see Arya in Braavos until near the end of 5.01, that the Winterfell scenes will play with the idea that Arya really is marrying Ramsay Bolton right up to the 'I dos' and they reveal Jeyne's face.

 

I'm actually looking forward to next season, yeah there's the Meeren Knot to deal with and I'm hoping they don't go overboard with The Walk but the Stark stuff, and for once I'm even including Bran in this, could make for good TV. 

 

I know it's a unpopular opinion but I think Lady Stoneheart is going to be cut completely. Instead Brienne (who is in the Vale right now) finds Sansa and becomes her agent.

Edited June 30, 2014 by patchwork

[Winnief]

 

 

I'm actually looking forward to next season, yeah there's the Meeren Knot to deal with and I'm hoping they don't go overboard with The Walk but the Stark stuff, and for once I'm even including Bran in this, could make for good TV.

I know it's a unpopular opinion but I think Lady Stoneheart is going to be cut completely. Instead Brienne (who is in the Vale right now) finds Sansa and becomes her agent.

 

Agreed.  Bran's storyline is *finally* getting interesting-in part because it's starting to tie in with AA and what's happening beyond the Wall.  

 

Do like the idea of Brienne becoming Sansa's agent-don't know if it will happen though.  Would love to see Blackfish return.

[Mormegil]

What do I want to see - I want them to show that the Hound is definitely dead.  We know he is, 

 

Many readers believe Sandor to be alive.

[Winnief]

 

 

What do I want to see - I want them to show that the Hound is definitely dead.  We know he is,

Many readers believe Sandor to be alive.

 

Denial-Not just a River in Egypt.  

 

I am literally counting down the days until Comic Con when full casting will be released. 

[benteen]

Re; Sam/Gilly/Aemon storyline....

 

Peter Vaughn is great as Maester Aemon, but he is 90+ years old, so I'm sure they are concerned about that and will want to tell the story this season, if it all.

 

Despite his age and health, Vaughn has done GREAT work as Aemon.  How much more they can do with him is uncertain but hopefully he'll be able to conclude his storyline with style.  He deserves that.

[Winnief]

I wonder if the manner of Aemon's death may be changed on the show since they're not going to be sending Sam to Oldtown.  Obviously he could still die of natural causes, (just not brought on by a long trip,) but they might try something more dramatic.  In any event I want Aemon to be offering good advice and wisdom right up until the end.

[Avaleigh]

They confirmed they aren't doing Oldtown? Damn, I was hoping that was going to be a way for Unsullied to some interesting background info since so many of them want it but without having to read the books. No point to Sarella or the FM infiltrating the Citadel?

[benteen]

I would imagine D and D know more about the Oldstown stuff but I think the material is such a question mark and so separated from the rest of the plot that it's hard to know how to proceed with it.

[Winnief]

 

They confirmed they aren't doing Oldtown? Damn, I was hoping that was going to be a way for Unsullied to some interesting background info since so many of them want it but without having to read the books. No point to Sarella or the FM infiltrating the Citadel?

 

Well there's been no confirmation, but I have the feeling if they were doing Oldtown, we'd have heard about it by now.  No, D&D actually seem to prefer to draw their characters more and more together in the North.  After all Sam, can research White Walkers just as easily from Castle Black, and I doubt D&D will bother with the whole Maester conspiracy thing, (god wasn't that a pointless subplot!?!) and so no Oldtown in season five-though it or Highgarden might well show up in Season 6 depending on how much of the Iron Born story they plan on doing if any.

[Lady S.]

What do I want to see - I want them to show that the Hound is definitely dead.  We know he is, but no in the Westeros world does and he is getting blamed for all the stuff the guy who stole his helm is doing.  

The Hound is dead, but Sandor is most likely working as a gravedigger on the Quiet Isle. And his cool helm hasn't been seen since 2.01, and the person wearing it when Brienne finds it/gets captured by the BwB is Biter, who was quickly killed off by The Hound on the show, so I think the Saltpans atrocities are a no go. Brienne's visit to the Quiet Isle, where the real Sandor probably is, is likely kaput as well with all the changes in s4, so we won't learn what happened to him unless he leaves the Quiet Isle and re-enters the larger story, which I'm not sure would even be a good thing for him.

 

Regarding Stoneheart I'm hoping Michelle is just putting up a smoke screen so her appearance will be a shock to everyone.  Personally I think she's very important to the story; the rage of the Stark clan embodied in one undead Cat. I suppose she could be replaced by a still not dead Dondarrion, but using Beric instead of Cat to wage a guerilla war against the Freys would not be nearly as satisfying.

Not to mention Brienne never swore any vows to Beric Dondarrion. 

[Winnief]

One thing they addressed in Season Four with Sandor and Arya meeting the farmer, Sandor robbed, that I hope continues next season is the theme that the Frey's are horrible lords of the Riverlands, and people consider what they did sacrilege because their general unpopularity in the area I'm sure will contribute greatly to their downfall.  Just as a big problem for the Bolton's is that nobody wanted a House with a Flayed Man for its sigil running things up North.  Difficult to rule over people who despise you.

[benteen]

Well there's been no confirmation, but I have the feeling if they were doing Oldtown, we'd have heard about it by now.  No, D&D actually seem to prefer to draw their characters more and more together in the North.  After all Sam, can research White Walkers just as easily from Castle Black, and I doubt D&D will bother with the whole Maester conspiracy thing, (god wasn't that a pointless subplot!?!) and so no Oldtown in season five-though it or Highgarden might well show up in Season 6 depending on how much of the Iron Born story they plan on doing if any.

 

They did have Aemon say that Castle Black had more books than any place other than the Citadel I believe.  It's a far cry from the state the library is in in the books.

[Lady S.]

*whispers* I found the great maester conspiracy interesting, I'd like to know more about them killing off the dragons and trying to organize an alliance between 5 of the Great Houses prior to Robert's Rebellion.

[Winnief]

 

They did have Aemon say that Castle Black had more books than any place other than the Citadel I believe.  It's a far cry from the state the library is in in the books.

 

Precisely.  They're clearly setting it up for Sam to be doing his research on site and continue to interact with characters at the Wall-so can Gilly this way for that matter.   Fact is, they're gonna have enough characters traveling next season as is.

[patchwork]

*whispers* I found the great maester conspiracy interesting, I'd like to know more about them killing off the dragons and trying to organize an alliance between 5 of the Great Houses prior to Robert's Rebellion.

 

I did too. I want to know more about the mysticism side of things and Old Town is the type of setting I like most but I don't think there's room for it on the show.