S05.E02: Chapter Eighty-Three

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

With Jane's Catholic guilt starting to settle in, she turns to Alba for advice and gets an unexpected answer. Luisa decides to go see Rose with Rafael by her side, in order to help get answers. Meanwhile, Rogelio is back to work with River, but a power struggle ensues between the two and Xo might be the solution they have been looking for.

Promo:

Original air date: 4/3/19

[Lady Calypso]

Ok, so now I'm annoyed with this Jason stuff. I'm really having issues with this entire episode. 

First off, they really turned Jason into such an ass. Maybe there's a reason why he's so cruel to Jane and Rogelio and the randomness in Jason liking Petra and River, but it's really annoying to watch. 

But there's another thing that annoys me. Jane and Rafael are so super concerned about Michael getting his memories back for their own selfish needs that they're not thinking that Michael deserves to get his memories back because he went through hell. I get it, show; Jane/Rafael are endgame. You don't have to rub it into the faces of us Jane/Michael fans who are left. 

For a splitting moment, I did think that they probably should have left Michael dead, and I hate thinking that, as an alive amnesiac Michael has at least a second chance at life....but is an amnesiac Michael better than a dead Michael? On the plus side, Brett Dier is really separating Jason from Michael. 

But I am glad Jason got to stand up to Jane and say that HE was the victim. Sure, Jane also suffered, but Jane definitely forgot that the person she's so worried about getting in between her and Rafael due to her own feelings is a person that went through so much. 

It did help once Jane finally got to know who Jason is, as he is not Michael at the moment, and it reminds me that I find Brett and Gina's chemistry to be electric. 

Oh, no surprise Rogelio was determined to be in the spotlight. I am glad that Xo came by to tell him to stop with his theatrics. Poor Xo needs to be taking care of herself. 

So, Rose gives some bullshit reason to Luisa, and Rafael passes that clearly bullshit reason to Jane. Even Luisa knew it was bullshit...and then took the pie from Rose's associate. Great. 

I am so annoyed at Jane and Rafael's reaction, though. They are so super selfish and although I like that Jane admitted that she felt like a bad person for wishing that Jason/Michael never came back, I hate that Rafael made her feel better about it. I like flawed characters, but this kind of flawed ain't it. 

And I'm not even a huge fan of Jason as a person. What he did at the end was really shitty. Why are they making all three of the love triangle shitty people? 

[BAH]

😭😭 those of you who weren’t Jachael or Michael fans won’t care, but boy am I upset. I can’t help it.  

On the plus side, Brett is fantastic —can tell he relishes playing Jason. And yes, the Brett-Gina chemistry is something else.  Which makes me feel upset all over again 

[cardigirl]

Hmmm, well, at least Jane admitted she might have feelings for Michael/Jason if he got his memories back. 

And it might be only me but that move into a kiss was kind of hot. 😉

[JamieLynn832002]

I'm not sure who the show is trying to appeal to right now...As much as I love them, Jane and Rafael are being super selfish right now and I'm not sure it's even realistic, yes, they are worried about the relationship but Jane loved Michael and Rafael deliberately sought to bring Michael/Jason back to her so this all about us attitude doesn't work and now Jason is being shifty...who is this satisfying? And I desperately wish they'd let go of Rose, I don't think she was ever as compelling a villain as the showrunners thought and now...I know telenovelas are over the top but everything about Rose is ridiculous and not in a particularly entertaining way.

[blugirlami21]

I liked that more than I was expecting. It's a heavy, complicated situation but I kind of like that the show is able to find the humor in it.

I don't know if I agree that Jane and Rafael are being overly selfish, they're just trying to keep some normalcy in a crazy situation. I think Jason was also a jerk because Jane was trying too hard and she wasn't being very open to him as a person in general. In vice versa. I think he was very closed off to her as well. It was nice to see them relax and have fun. I didn't ship them but the friendship part of their relationship was always well done and I like the idea of them getting that back.

I'm a huge Jafael fan but I'm not as mad that Michael has returned like I thought I would be.  He does seem kind of shifty with the divorce papers but I think he he just wants more time to see what he has forgotten about his relationship with Jane. I also think Jane wanting a divorce so soon is premature.

I'm actually excited to see where this goes.

As for Rose and Louisa...the less said the better imo.

Edited April 4, 2019 by blugirlami21

[AnushkaR]

I find it so funny that the fans who for almost a year said Michael being dead is better than Michael coming back to ruin Jane/Michael's memories are now upset Jane feels the same. Michael being alive will always be better than a dead Michael no matter what the outcome is. Jane and Rafael of course wouldn't want their life disturbed, Jane and Michael didn't want theirs to be bothered by Rafael either when they had just gotten back together. There is a difference in feeling something and doing something. Jane and Rafael are trying to help Michael/Jason. They are giving him a place to stay. They are trying to jog his memory, heck Jane even has a schedule for him. What Michael went through during his torture session probably doesn't haunt Jane so much at the moment because he looks fine at the moment. Also it is important that to Jane he is not her Michael. If it was Michael it would be a whole different issue. 

I really enjoyed this episode. I think this season the writers have become really bold. It's okay if we all dislike this Jane. This Jane is on a journey to figuring out who she is and what she truly feels vs what she should be feeling. Every episode we are going to see a different side of her. I love that. 

[Irlandesa]

I guess I'm going to go against the grain in saying that I don't think anyone is being out-of-bounds selfish in the Jane/MichaelJason/Rafael story.

I don't think it's wrong for Jane and Rafael to have conflicted feelings about what this does to their settled life.  They're still, perhaps clumsily, looking for a resolution whether it's Jane going through Michael's life, quite extensively, with Jason.  Or if it's Rafael going to Rose to find out why she did this.  BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if the reason we got today were the truth.  There is definitely more to the story with the number but Michael's memory might have nothing to do with it.   Having a POV and desires that are 100% team me is normal.

I even forgive Jason for being somewhat deceptive.  He may have been the victim but he was actually fine until, ironically, he was brought back.  After the tour of his life, he felt a spark with someone in it and wants to explore it.

Alba and Jorge were sweet in the episode. 

[Lady Calypso]

19 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I guess I'm going to go against the grain in saying that I don't think anyone is being out-of-bounds selfish in the Jane/MichaelJason/Rafael story.

I don't think it's wrong for Jane and Rafael to have conflicted feelings about what this does to their settled life.  They're still, perhaps clumsily, looking for a resolution whether it's Jane going through Michael's life, quite extensively, with Jason.  Or if it's Rafael going to Rose to find out why she did this.  BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if the reason we got today were the truth.  There is definitely more to the story with the number but Michael's memory might have nothing to do with it.   Having a POV and desires that are 100% team me is normal.

I even forgive Jason for being somewhat deceptive.  He may have been the victim but he was actually fine until, ironically, he was brought back.  After the tour of his life, he felt a spark with someone in it and wants to explore it.

Alba and Jorge were sweet in the episode. 

I do agree with this. I definitely have to rewatch the episode and I know I'll have a less emotional reaction, but I think I'm frustrated because I care about Michael and he's nowhere in sight and things are really messy with Jane, Rafael, and Jason. I can see all of their POVs, for sure and I think it's natural to feel these emotions. I don't mind how messy it is. I think I'm just upset because I know the endgame and I'm just wanting our Michael back now, not this Jason stranger. I guess I'm just impatient! 

[Simba122504]

Brett is fantastic. I swear he planned this role for years. lol He's giving me comedy gold. Jane, Rafael or Michael/Jason are not the same people they were years ago. Of course Michael is not at the moment. But neither is Jane and Rafael. Yes, Jane truly loved Michael but he "died" and she had to pick up the pieces. Now, he's back and her emotions are crazy. Rafael also has to deal with this. It affects him too and Rose knew just where to hit him. Nobody would know how to react to such news. Jane and Rafael want to help Michael/Jason. They are helping him. He's still family and the characters on this show are decent people at heart. JTV knows it's a ridiculous soap opera/telenovela storyline and that's where the comedy comes in. Rose became a cartoon villain a long time ago so Bridget is just going full camp. There is more so much more to come. It's 19 episodes.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Simba122504

[Ms Lark]

Sigh. Jane could easily get an annulment. Even the church would agree. He's not only amnesiac, but brain damaged thanks to Rose. His body is alive, but his mind is something else. Seven years gone is a long time and he was declared dead. She would then be free to marry Rafael.

[natyxg]

As I was watching today I became increasingly pissed off. And it's not necessarily about shipping one couple more than the other or anything along those lines, but about seeing a story that had been so well resolved (imo) being ripped open again just to RUIN IT and ruin everybody involved. I don't want Jane to "get over" Michael and choose Rafael, I preferred Jane the Widow who fell in love again, but whose two loves were just as valid and important. This infernal love triangle also makes all the characters involved terrible and makes the show super tedious. It always has. I remember how utterly sick of it I was by season two. So seeing it brought up again just pisses me off.

I suppose that for Michael fans him being alive will always be better than him being dead, but even though I liked him too I always thought that killing him was the right choice because the alternative was to ruin him and/or his love with Jane in order to keep going on about the same bullshit love triangle. They got married, but Rafael was never going to go away, so what could come next? Breaking Jane and Michael up, making Michael do terrible things to justify their break up, etc. So after dodging THAT bullet, here we're back at the very same place, the characters and the loves involved being ruined just bring us this terrible story. Jane and Rafael are being consistently selfish, the show is really going out of their way to make "Jason" insufferable (it's almost as if they WANT us to root against him and Jane, and want to ease us into them breaking up forever in the end), and the best case scenario on the horizon is that Michael does come back so we can continue with the triangle some more, all leading up to Jane choosing Rafael in the end, which I assume is what this whole disaster is about, making Jane "truly" choose Rafael.  And when they do that, what decent ending could they possibly give Michael?

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!

And to keep adding to the list of things ruined by all of this, there's Rose. I think she was never all that, but I do agree that they're taking her too far and making her into an unbelievable, unfunny parody. Luisa and Rose are also getting more ruined by the second (not that they were all that either, but it still bothers me).

Just STOP, show. STOP.

[natyxg]

32 minutes ago, Ms Lark said:

Sigh. Jane could easily get an annulment. Even the church would agree. He's not only amnesiac, but brain damaged thanks to Rose. His body is alive, but his mind is something else. Seven years gone is a long time and he was declared dead. She would then be free to marry Rafael.

I'm not sure that's how it works. Church annulments, as far as I know, are supposed to be awarded only in cases when the marriage was invalid from the very beginning. For example, if Rafael and Jane married and THEN Michael came back, Rafael and Jane would be automatically annulled because the marriage wasn't allowed to begin with. The church wouldn't care that Michael was gone for four years or that his personality changed or anything, because marriage is supposed to be until your death, including during the hard times (this would be the hard times). So, if Jane and Rafael married now it could only be a civil marriage (after Jane divorced him) and they would be "living in sin" because Jane being with Rafael is adultery.

Now, I imagine that the civil marriage is something else, though I don't really get how that one would be annulled either. But Jane was talking to lawyers, so I imagine this was the one she was trying to get annulled? I don't know, I think they mixed things up in a way that doesn't make sense. I also think that Abuela's reaction to Jane wanting to divorce was also all off, because for a devout catholic divorcing and moving on to another relationship is living in grave sin. This is another reason why I disliked the episode, I felt that  so many things were just off.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I just rolled my eyes when Jane how you know when to turn and Jason said, "Just feel it out." Uh, no. It's not improv. Line dances are choreographed, including when you turn, so it's not a matter of "feeling it out." It's a matter of learning and memorizing the steps.

Ugh, Jason kissing Jane was ridiculous. So you got along with her for all of two minutes and decided to make a move? GROSS and really presumptuous. Guys, just because a girl isn't actively trying to throw your ass out doesn't mean it's an invitation to swoop in and kiss her. This was doubly gross because Jason knows that Jane is in a serious committed monogamous relationship with Rafael.

Edited April 4, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[BAH]

Well, I watched it again 10 hours later, and was able to look at it with more distance.  

It’s been JTV’s conceit all along to make the Characters react and act realistically in unrealistic/hyperbolic situations, and this season is no different.   So Jane’s and Rafael’s reactions do seem realistic to me, as do their fears and wishes.  

I will keep watching mostly out of a desire to see WTH they end up doing with this Jason character.  And, the Luisa arc—who the heck knows where that will end up.  

The Rogelio amnesia parallelism is just plain silly,  but his arc might pick up weight with whatever River has in store. 

Every minute I get to see Brett onscreen is still relished, for sure.  I wouldn’t mind more kissing shenanigans by him, no matter who it’s with 😍.  In fact, I think he should go for Petra next 🤣 

[cardigirl]

I wonder if we will ever get the 'real' Michael back. Sigh. I fear he is really gone for good.  Brett Dier is wonderful, but I don't want to get to know Jason too much.

Also, I really wish Jane (and her family) would focus just a bit more on what happened to poor Michael.  Only River was able to say it, Michael was a victim.  So, because of the way this is being written, I have to wonder if Jason is really Michael without his memories after all or some henchman of Rose's. 

[BAH]

12 minutes ago, BAH said:

Well, I watched it again 10 hours later, and was able to look at it with more distance.  

It’s been JTV’s conceit all along to make the Characters react and act realistically in unrealistic/hyperbolic situations, and this season is no different.   So Jane’s and Rafael’s reactions do seem realistic to me, as do their fears and wishes.  

I will keep watching mostly out of a desire to see WTH they end up doing with this Jason character.  And, the Luisa arc—who the heck knows where that will end up.  

The Rogelio amnesia parallelism is just plain silly,  but his arc might pick up weight with whatever River has in store. 

Every minute I get to see Brett onscreen is still relished, for sure.  I wouldn’t mind more kissing shenanigans by him, no matter who it’s with 😍.  In fact, I think he should go for Petra next 🤣 

I meant to edit not quote myself but anyway.  Was going to add that showing Jason in this way really helps us die hard Michael fans detach and let him go. Well, it helps me anyway. 

Because then it’s more and more clear that Michael is gone.  Even if it’s an evil bot Michael who knows who he is, the old one is gone.   

Edited April 4, 2019 by BAH
Edit

[cardigirl]

And while we're at it, I didn't really enjoy Rogelio this episode either. Usually, he makes me laugh, but he was just annoying this round. 

But I LOVE that Rafael is YELLING at Jane about getting a divorce.  Keep yelling at her, buddy.  :) 

Edited April 4, 2019 by cardigirl

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

And while we're at it, I didn't really enjoy Rogelio this episode either. Usually, he makes me laugh, but he was just annoying this round. 

But I LOVE that Rafael is YELLING at Jane about getting a divorce.  Keep yelling at her, buddy.  🙂

Rafael: How DARE you be conflicted about your dead husband coming back to life? You need to divorce Jason/Michael because I'm insecure about you leaving me for him!

Seriously, if he was that confident in his relationship with Jane, he'd let her go through with the divorce in six months. The fact that he's this sure that Jane will want to stay married to Michael if he remembers that he's Michael is a red flag in their relationship and why I dislike this whole plot right now. Once again, this whole thing is more for Jane to choose Rafael first over Michael, to soothe Rafael's fragile ego (despite the fact that she DID choose him in season 1 over Michael). 

I slept on it, haven't rewatched, calmed down a bit, but my opinion still hasn't really changed from my initial emotionally charged post.

[BAH]

So cardigirl and LadyCalypso, are you all Jafael endgame wishers?  Just trying to know the audience here, lol. Most people here seem to be, which is fine of course.  It’s just a show after all 😂

[cardigirl]

19 minutes ago, BAH said:

So cardigirl and LadyCalypso, are you all Jafael endgame wishers?  Just trying to know the audience here, lol. Most people here seem to be, which is fine of course.  It’s just a show after all 😂

NoooOOoOoOoooo, I've been Team Michael from the get-go, can't really say why other than I don't like the easy endgame idea and would love for Michael to be the endgame after all. TEE HEE!!!

Plus Rafael is sweet, NOW, but he has never really done it for me. And I liked him with Petra.  I love Petra! 

Edited April 4, 2019 by cardigirl

[nilyank]

27 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Plus Rafael is sweet, NOW, but he has never really done it for me. And I liked him with Petra.  I love Petra! 

I loved Rafael with Petra but they were doomed even though he was able to forgive her for the horrible things she did to him. Petra always felt (and I agree) that Rafael would always take Jane's side over Petra's. No matter what.

[natyxg]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I wonder if we will ever get the 'real' Michael back.

I am a 10000000% sure that we will.

[cardigirl]

15 minutes ago, natyxg said:

I am a 10000000% sure that we will.

Why?  And what makes you sooo certain, please?  :) 

Also, here are some interesting theories about Jason/Michael.

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/tv/a27041948/michael-jason-amensia-jane-the-virgin/

Edited April 4, 2019 by cardigirl

[Enginerd]

It isn't a telenovela unless everything goes all to hell and makes a lot of people get angry and question why they ever liked the protagonists in the final stretch.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, BAH said:

So cardigirl and LadyCalypso, are you all Jafael endgame wishers?  Just trying to know the audience here, lol. Most people here seem to be, which is fine of course.  It’s just a show after all 😂

Yeah, not a Jafael endgame wisher at all. But I know that's what it's going to end up being so....was just hoping for a decent story arc for Michael. I love that he's alive and gets a second chance at life. I'm just unimpressed with amnesiac Michael probably being Jason and hoping that maybe Jason isn't amnesiac Michael, is some goon that works for Rose and that amnesiac Michael is still truly out there. That may be the only thing to save Michael for me. 

I also liked Rafael with Petra. They strangely clicked for me. 

1 hour ago, nilyank said:

I loved Rafael with Petra but they were doomed even though he was able to forgive her for the horrible things she did to him. Petra always felt (and I agree) that Rafael would always take Jane's side over Petra's. No matter what.

So true. Rafael's spent more time with Jane and Mateo than Petra, Elsa, and Anna. 

[natyxg]

10 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Why?  And what makes you sooo certain, please?  🙂

Well, mostly for two reasons:

*Amnesia is a telenovela/soap opera staple, and they ALWAYS get their memories back. Sort of how any time someone is in a wheelchair they will always walk again if they're the good guys, or they're always faking it if they're the bad guys.

*There is no point in bringing Michael back if he doesn't truly conflict Jane in a meaningful way. Jane choosing Rafael over some monotone stranger from Montana means nothing. Jane choosing between Rafael and the real Michael, that's where the real conflict is. It would make no sense to bring Michael back and make him Jason forever. I imagine that bringing him back with amnesia is a way to introduce that telenovela trope they hadn't used before PLUS draw the conflict out through the season.

Having said that I'm still as convinced as always that Jane and Rafael are the "endgame".

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Jason was checking out Petra last week, I thought that maybe the show would have him pursue her which would OF COURSE annoy Jane on multiple levels. I figured initially Petra would keep brushing him off, partly because she's not interested and partly out of loyalty to Jane and then eventually there would be a turning point or dramatic situation where he saves her life (or keeps the girls from being kidnapped by Rose) which would make Petra give him a chance. Then they would fall in looooooooove.

If the show were going to continue after this season, then the next telenovela twist would be Michael regaining his memory, probably by bumping his head on the day that Jane and Rafael were getting married, throwing all of those relationships into chaos. Michael and Jane would give their relationship another try (possibly sending Rafael and Petra back together for some comfort and/or semi-revenge sex) but they would realize after all they'd been through, they still loved each other but weren't in love with each anymore, allowing them to go back to Jane/Rafael and Michael/Petra.

I'm not saying I am into Jason/Petra because it would be weird on so many levels, but I thought that storyline would give the show the opportunity to (1) bring Michael back without immediately breaking up Jane and Rafael (2) cause tension between Jane/Petra (3) give Jane a way to initially stay with Rafael without betraying Michael and then (4) allow Michael and Jane to separate without any betrayal or hard feelings.

[gesundheit]

I just get the feeling that they'll put Jason/Michael with Petra eventually so that the series ends with all the main characters getting "happy endings" (since in this type of show, you can't be single and happy at the end). I hope I'm wrong, and apparently there are 19 episodes this season. So anything can happen -- on the show and with my opinions about the show! Personally I want fewer love life shenanigans in general. Don't need the triangle back, even though I was always firmly Team Michael (but I didn't like being a Team Anyone).

[cardigirl]

One of the theories in the article I linked to above states that maybe Michael/Jason is faking his amnesia to protect everyone.  That he remembers but has to pretend to save people from Rose.  And perhaps he faked his amnesia to get Rose to stop with the electroshock therapy so he could get away.  He's been lying low to keep Jane and everyone safe.  

I like that theory.  :) 

(This probably belongs in speculation thread somewhere) 

[tennisgurl]

Brett is so great at playing Jason, he really does come off as a totally different person, and its not JUST the endless flannel shirts. I am trying to hold onto that, because I just cant get behind this story. I am really trying guys, I really am, but I loved Michael and Michael/Jane so much, and while I was so bitter and depressed about his death, I eventually realized that, as Raf/Jane were inevitably endgame, that this was for the best. Michael and Jane would always have their wonderful marriage that ended too early, and Jane had truly chosen him, not just because he was what she was used to. Granted, I wanted then to be endgame, but as I knew it wasnt going to happen, I found peace with it. 

But now? Its like they're dragging Michael's corpse around and propping it up, Weekend at Bernie's style, while his existence is treated as an annoyance by the people who are supposed to love him. I really am working to be sympathetic to Raf and Jane, and I think their conflicted emotions are realistic and understandable. Its a crazy situation, and there are no real bad guys here, except for Rose, obviously. BUT, I just hate that literally the only person who seems to note that Michael/Jason is the victim here is freaking River, a person who has nothing to even do with the situation! Maybe thats what was needed, someone not emotionally involved, to point out what should be the flippin obvious. Of course, the real victim here is Michael, who lets not forget, was essentially tortured to death and his body was brought back as the aforementioned Weekend at Bernie's mess to fuck with Jane and Raf, and to be an obstacle to their new true love. Thats what kills me, we spent all this time with Michael, saw his mistakes and failures and triumphs and how he grew as a person, and we saw his love for Jane and her family, and now it just didnt mean anything. His wife who he loved so much just wishes he stayed dead and didnt mess up her new romance, and while I get that its a weird situation, and I do feel bad for Jane and her conflicting feelings, it just sucks that no one seems to care about what happened to Michael except for freaking me!

What I think will probably happen is Michael will get his memory back, and will give his blessing to Jane/Raf, and he will get a bone thrown to him by sticking him with Petra or someone, or he joins the FBI or gets some professional success. I will be nice I guess to see Michael get some kind of happy ending, but...I am just so not into this. Its just depressing.

[natyxg]

11 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

What I think will probably happen is Michael will get his memory back, and will give his blessing to Jane/Raf, and he will get a bone thrown to him by sticking him with Petra or someone, or he joins the FBI or gets some professional success. I will be nice I guess to see Michael get some kind of happy ending, but...I am just so not into this. Its just depressing.

I imagine that Petra will end up with JR. The only time we saw Petra giddy, vulnerable and in love in a healthy way was with her imo, and I doubt they will throw that away in the end. Maybe Petra and "Jason" can have a fling, tho.

[nomodrama]

I haven't even watched the episode yet, I'm considering waiting it out and getting spoiled so I'm not to disappointed. I will say my immediate reaction to the preview for the episode was not a positive one. I don't think that your ex-husband who was thought to be dead, was tortured until he forgot everything but is now aware that he is still married to you, walking in on you fooling around with your new boyfriend should be played for laughs. Of course I'm a total Micheal apologist (don't judge me! You can't always help what ships you are drawn to). 

Spoiler

Putting this under spoilers: 

There was a picture on Instagram of Gina, Justin and Yael doing their last table read with tears in their eyes. Brett Dier was not in the picture. I wonder if that means that by the end of the season his character, Jason or Michael will have moved on, or if having him in the picture would be too spoilery (if thats a word). Interesting....

[cardigirl]

3 minutes ago, nomodrama said:

I haven't even watched the episode yet, I'm considering waiting it out and getting spoiled so I'm not to disappointed. I will say my immediate reaction to the preview for the episode was not a positive one. I don't think that your ex-husband who was thought to be dead, was tortured until he forgot everything but is now aware that he is still married to you, walking in on you fooling around with your new boyfriend should be played for laughs. Of course I'm a total Micheal apologist (don't judge me! You can't always help what ships you are drawn to). 

  Reveal spoiler

Putting this under spoilers: 

There was a picture on Instagram of Gina, Justin and Yael doing their last table read with tears in their eyes. Brett Dier was not in the picture. I wonder if that means that by the end of the season his character, Jason or Michael will have moved on, or if having him in the picture would be too spoilery (if thats a word). Interesting....

Wondered the same thing, NOMO. 

[natyxg]

1 minute ago, natyxg said:

I imagine that Petra will end up with JR. The only time we saw Petra giddy, vulnerable and in love in a healthy way was with her imo, and I doubt they will throw that away in the end. Maybe Petra and "Jason" can have a fling, tho.

Adding: I think they've painted themselves into a corner because I can't think of a single way that they can come up with a satisfactory ending. Jane ending up with Michael would mean an unsatisfactory ending for Rafael, whose true love all through the show has always been Jane and his whole story has been about him growing up enough to deserve her. Jane ending up with Rafael would mean and unsatisfactory ending for Michael, who was in love with Jane from day one and even if they stick him with some other LI it will feel cheap and badly done. Michael not getting his memory back would be unsatisfactory because they would have brought him back, but not really, so it's almost giving a middle finger to the character, same if it turns out that it's not really really Michael but some guy Rose gave amnesia to and a Michael face (since Rose can do everything she could have faked the DNA test). Anything, anything that I think of just sucks.

[BAH]

I feel ya, tennisgurl, though I am more upset for Michael-Jane being dead than just for pure Michael.  I think I loved Michael almost at your level tho 😉

Which leads me to ask, DO we know for sure Michael really suffered?  Is it like Wesley on THe Princess Bride level? I mean, I know nothing about ECT.  I know it seems like a stupid question; I’m happy to be corrected.  regardless, I’m glad we didn’t get to see any of it, frankly; I couldn’t have stood it. 

Also, what IF, as someone already said, Michael knows he’s Michael and is pretending to be Jason to catch Rose and protect Jane? Then, he could “die again” trying to kill Rose, killing Rose simultaneously? THAT would be semi-satisfactory to me.  His legacy would not be marred, Jane would know how much he loved her (again), and he could just go back to being dead, which some of us MichAel diehards would prefer.  Jafael shippers could shout with glee and it would annoy me much less 🙊

While I’m at it, I’m perturbed by the phrase “Michael apologist”, as if he were someone we should feel guilty adoring. Just saying.

Finally, I want to add how bad I think Baldoni is at comedy; even the couple’s lighter/cute scenes simply sink.  IMO Baldoni capably hits two notes: reassuring/encouraging Jane, and withholding what he’s really feeling. By contrast, all interactions between Dier and Rodriguez snap, crackle, pop!

My totally unbiased opinions, right?  but it’s yet another reason for me to hate their ending up together.  I mean, Urman, you couldn’t write a cool ending for the couple with fantastic chemistry?? Oh, how I hope she will have made an ending worthy of their onscreen partnership ! 

Edited April 4, 2019 by BAH
Words

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, BAH said:

Which leads me to ask, DO we know for sure Michael really suffered?  Is it like Wesley on THe Princess Bride level? I mean, I know nothing about ECT.  I know it seems like a stupid question; I’m happy to be corrected.  regardless, I’m glad we didn’t get to see any of it, frankly; I couldn’t have stood it. 

Seeing as Rose told Luisa that she decided to erase Michael's memory instead of outright killing him for Luisa, I doubt, even if ECT was painless, that she allowed it to be. Also, in order to successfully erase Michael's memory, Rose would have had to adminster high dosages of ECT. 

I think we may get a flashback of Michael/Rose at some point, so we may very well see it.

1 hour ago, BAH said:

 Also, what IF, as someone already said, Michael knows he’s Michael and is pretending to be Jason to catch Rose and protect Jane? Then, he could “die again” trying to kill Rose, killing Rose simultaneously? THAT would be semi-satisfactory to me.  His legacy would not be marred, Jane would know how much he loved her (again), and he could just go back to being dead, which some of us MichAel diehards would prefer.  Jafael shippers could shout with glee and it would annoy me much less 🙊

That wouldn't satisfy me. Honestly, if Michael was faking amnesia, he's had a couple of weeks to tell Jane without Rose or her minions supervising him, if he did feel pressured to fake it. Rose is already in jail, anyway. Plus, Jason has been cruel toward Jane for no real reason. This is harming Jane more than anything, and the Michael we knew wouldn't intentionally hurt Jane like this, even to protect her. Jason is pretty much an entirely different person than Michael. 

His legacy was fine when he was thought to be dead. They gave Michael the best ending possible and I made peace with that. Sure, he gets a second chance of life, but what they're doing now is ruining the perfect ending Michael did have for Jane/Rafael. Of course, a living Michael makes me thrilled, but I don't like the reasons why they seem to have brought him back (only for a twist, only for Jane/Rafael). Also, I couldn't be satisfied ever if they had him make a heroic sacrifice to kill Rose and himself. He was already dead. Bringing him back just to kill him off is probably worse. Then that would REALLY solidify that he was only brought back for a twist. They brought him back alive; leave him alive, then.

And yeah, I know it's only been 2 episodes out of 19, so there's plenty of time here, but they're going a bit too hard with Jason being a shady asshole character.

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Seeing as Rose told Luisa that she decided to erase Michael's memory instead of outright killing him for Luisa, I doubt, even if ECT was painless, that she allowed it to be. Also, in order to successfully erase Michael's memory, Rose would have had to adminster high dosages of ECT.

I think this is the part of the fantasy of the show where some things happen and some things don't hurt as much as they should. 

Quote

That wouldn't satisfy me. Honestly, if Michael was faking amnesia, he's had a couple of weeks to tell Jane without Rose or her minions supervising him, if he did feel pressured to fake it. Rose is already in jail, anyway. Plus, Jason has been cruel toward Jane for no real reason. This is harming Jane more than anything, and the Michael we knew wouldn't intentionally hurt Jane like this, even to protect her. Jason is pretty much an entirely different person than Michael. 

Michael once lied that he had a girlfriend in order to "protect Jane" which I always thought was kind of crappy to do so it's not completely out of his DNA.   But this would be worse and I also hope it's not the case. 

[twoods]

Im guessing that he may get his memories back soon but not tell anyone to protect them from Rose and let Jane and Raf have their happy ending.  I can see this happening so the Michael fans can sort of be happy that he risked everything for Jane to be happy, and Jane/Raf get their happily every after. As a Michael fan it will suck, but at least he’s not dead. Oh, and maybe he can put a bullet in Rose. 

I can’t see him faking this Jason bit right now. He would never be cruel towards Jane, and not even react to his mom and cat?

Edited April 5, 2019 by twoods

[nomodrama]

Quote

While I’m at it, I’m perturbed by the phrase “Michael apologist”, as if he were someone we should feel guilty adoring. Just saying.

I'm perturbed that a comment I made about myself would affect someone so much that they would be perturbed by it. I love Michael completely guilt free, and will forgive him almost anything.....almost being a key word though.

I'm actually thrilled to be in the company of more Jane/Michael supporters, I think Instagram seems to lean more towards Jane/Rafael shippers....at least it appeared that way when Michael was killed off. 

Quote

That wouldn't satisfy me. Honestly, if Michael was faking amnesia, he's had a couple of weeks to tell Jane without Rose or her minions supervising him, if he did feel pressured to fake it. Rose is already in jail, anyway. Plus, Jason has been cruel toward Jane for no real reason. This is harming Jane more than anything, and the Michael we knew wouldn't intentionally hurt Jane like this, even to protect her. Jason is pretty much an entirely different person than Michael

I also don't think this would satisfy me (points to the word "almost" above). The minute Rafael found him and brought him back this plan would go from well intentioned to unnecessarily hurtful and I can't see it being something Jane would forgive or be able to come to terms with. Its possible though, they are going to have to wrap this storyline up somehow. 

I fully agree with the comment that the writers have written themselves into a corner, because no ending will be 100% satisfactory. Thats the problem with having a endgame plan from the start of the series and then having these love triangles be a central part of the story. When the series ends the writers will probably say they always intended so and so to be together so that is what happened. 

I'll share a really perturbing fact, though I'm a bit rusty on the rules so I'm not sure if I'm allowed to talk about other shows ships. During the early years of Grey's Anatomy (and keep in mind that show is so old now that I was much much younger), my whole life's happiness depended on Alex and Izzie being together forever. If you watch that show you probably know how that turned out. I have bad luck picking the ships I get invested in. 

Edited April 5, 2019 by nomodrama

[thelegacies87]

This was one of my least favorite episodes of Jane. The Rogelio story was dumb, Jorge is as dynamic as a piece of blank paper, and just about EVERYONE was unlikable(Jane, Raf, and "Jason").

I mean, are they just trying to make Jason just terrible? Forcing a kiss on Jane. Being a jerk. LOving the color "brown". 

And are they trying to make Jane terrible, because as guilty as she is, she's still making this all about her. When River Fields(in as River and in character monologue) seems to have a more empathetic view of what Michael is going through, it's a giant freakin' problem. So I guess Jane has just stopped loving her dead husband? Umm okay.

All she seems to care about is how this affects Raf and her, and how guilty she's feeling but it's never about Michael. Not even after Jane learned that the only reason Michael was taken from her was because Raf's crazy's sister crazy girlfriend wanted to "play it safe". There isn't even any sort of tragedy where she thinks, "IF only Michael hadn't gotten coffee". It's still just about HER and RAF. 

I don' get what the writers are trying to do? I don't get how this is supposed to make Michael fans happy? Or even Jane fans? Or Raf fans? I guess maybe Jane/Raf fans would like Jane's picking Rafael, even when faced with the possibility of MIchael coming back to finally say "She's he's the pick!" but I think they'd rather have just Jane and Raf. So what's the freaking point of this storyline?

Edited April 5, 2019 by thelegacies87

[natyxg]

3 minutes ago, thelegacies87 said:

This was one of my least favorite episodes of Jane. The Rogelio story was dumb, Jorge is as dynamic as a piece of blank paper, and just about EVERYONE was unlikable(Jane, Raf, and "Jason").

I mean, are they just trying to make Jason just terrible? Forcing a kiss on Jane. Being a jerk. LOving the color "brown". 

And are they trying to make Jane terrible, because as guilty as she is, she's still making this all about her. When River Fields(in as River and in character monologue) seems to have a more empathetic view of what Michael is going through, it's a giant freakin' problem. So I guess Jane has just stopped loving her dead husband? Umm okay.

All she seems to care about is how this affects Raf and her, and how guilty she's feeling but it's never about Michael. Not even after Jane learned that the only reason Michael was taken from her was because Raf's crazy's sister crazy girlfriend wanted to "play it safe". There isn't even any sort of tragedy where she thinks, "IF only Michael hadn't gotten coffee". It's still just about HER and RAF. 

I don' get what the writers are trying to do? I don't get how this is supposed to make Michael fans happy? Or even Jane fans? Or Raf fans? I guess maybe Jane/Raf fans like Jane's choosing him,  even if Michael would come back(again, this just feels random and wrong) but I think they'd rather have just Jane and Raf. So what's the freaking point of this storyline? 

THIS^

I agree completely.

[AllyB]

Jason has been living in Montana for years. I think it would have made sense if during those years he had actually fallen in love with someone too. It would give the show plenty of drama and conflict. Jason's desire to regain his full sense of identity threatens his relationship in a similar way that his reappearance is threatening Jane and Raf's. His inevitable recovery of those memories leads to a potential reunion with Jane. Eventually they realise their years apart have changed them, Jason is a part of Michael and he truly loves Jason's partner, Jane is also a different person who loves Raf. They bid a bittersweet but positive goodbye to what could have been and move on happily. 

I still wouldn't be 100% surprised if Jason does turn out to have a partner, maybe even a wife, but the whole attraction to Petra thing makes that less likely.

[BAH]

Yeah, it’s curious that we don’t know much about Jason’s love life for the past 4 years. He’s certainly straight, and appears to be a horn dog/player thus far.

Like those of you who think the writers “wrote” themselves into a corner, I am now wondering —apologies if this is repeating what others have said—-why did Rose even bring Michael back? Other than the reason she gave to Luisa, I mean to say.   I mean, we’re  to assume that Rose contacted Rafael to let him know about Michael, right?  Was her other purpose also to annoy/anger Rafael?  She definitely enjoyed his show of anger at the prison meeting. 

Meanwhile, my husband applied his knowledge of pro wrestling (apparently rife with dramatic “stories”) to theorize the following: Rafael could be shown to be the “heel” (villain) in the end. Michael could be the “face” (hero), though the hero shows both his “sides” throughout the “show”, which has many twists and turns. 

I would certainly love that, but what do they do with Mateo in that case? The kid would be traumatized. 

To support his theory, though: why did Rafael take Luisa to a supposed safe house only to have curly-haired blond guy show up the same night?  And he had a funny look on his face when he said, “Rose won’t find you here.”  Probably just reading into it, and I clearly need to get a life 🤣

Finally, I agree Jason saying his fave color is brown is tongue in cheek. Rogelio still made me and my husband LOL , though. TGFR! 

I really like Xo this season, and also hope Abuela gets her happily ever after. She’s done nothing to deserve otherwise! 

[cardigirl]

Normally I would say "trust that the writers know what they are doing" but having been burned on quite a few shows that I have loved before (How I Met Your Mother, Lost, Battlestar Galactica) I'm a little worried about JTV. Here's hoping the writers 'know' what they are doing.

[Captain Asshat]

Not sure why people are finding fault with the writers over character motives and whatnot. I think the writers are totally hitting the mark when it comes to soap opera tropes. And this, being like a telenovela (and to paraphrase Jane) is a soap turned up to 11. 

Soaps have never been rooted in reality. Hell, I remember waaay back when General Hospital introduced James Bond-like spies and machines that would freeze the world...and no one said, "Wait. That's impossible!" So here we have "husband comes back from the dead, but with amnesia." It's classic soap opera trope. Even better? Now said husband is seen trying to possibly come back into her life. He kissed Jane, lied about his dog eating the divorce papers, seems to want to be part of Jane's life somehow -- either directly or by romancing Petra. 

So...I'm going to guess this is going one of the following places:

1) Jason really isn't Michael, and Rose found some super-secret "soap opera science" way to fake a DNA test, or just paid off someone at the lab. Jason is a willing participant in whatever her evil plan this season is. 
2) Jason is really a heretofore unknown twin that Rose found, and that Michael's parents had no idea about, because he was stolen at birth for some soap opera handwaving reason. Now Rose is using him as a willing participant in whatever her evil plan this season is. 
3) Rose found a way to "Manchurian Candidate" Michael and make him think that he needs to insert his way into Jane and Raf's lives to (insert whatever her evil plan this season is). 
4) In all cases, the dog is still cute and will somehow come into play for the ultimate reveal. 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Captain Asshat

[Zap]

Wait, with the DNA being a match, can it just be Michael's brother (post surgery) who was once introduced but never really had a point in the story up till now?

[Babalu]

1 hour ago, Zap said:

Wait, with the DNA being a match, can it just be Michael's brother (post surgery) who was once introduced but never really had a point in the story up till now?

Siblings, on average, share only half their DNA - this explains, for example, my brown-eyed, right-handed siblings while I have blue eyes and am left-handed. Even if the percentage were much higher, I don’t think Jason would be a match unless he’s Michael’s identical twin. Even then, there could be DNA variations, but a standard DNA test might not be sophisticated enough to differentiate them. 

I think Jason is Michael, not his identical twin, but this is a telenovela, so what do I know?

[Enginerd]

Telenovelas are notorious for having someone get a DNA test or paternity test, but then having the villain get ahead of the heroes and falsify the results in some manner. Either shenanigans with the lab, or by swapping samples before they get sent to the lab. It's about as much of a trope as coming back from the dead.

Speaking of Michael's brother, though, it's about time he reappeared. Maybe he can jog Michael's memory. Nothing like a sibling to push all your long-forgotten buttons.

[Irlandesa]

10 hours ago, BAH said:

Meanwhile, my husband applied his knowledge of pro wrestling (apparently rife with dramatic “stories”) to theorize the following: Rafael could be shown to be the “heel” (villain) in the end. Michael could be the “face” (hero), though the hero shows both his “sides” throughout the “show”, which has many twists and turns. 

I would certainly love that, but what do they do with Mateo in that case? The kid would be traumatized. 

To support his theory, though: why did Rafael take Luisa to a supposed safe house only to have curly-haired blond guy show up the same night?  And he had a funny look on his face when he said, “Rose won’t find you here.”  Probably just reading into it, and I clearly need to get a life

Wrestling is very much written like a soap opera writer.  In fact, I've heard of writers leaving soaps to go write for wrestling. 

While that scene could be a clue something is up with him, it's easier explained by the almost omnipotent ability of Rose to find anyone, hide anyone, disguise anyone, erase anyone's memory, and get a cult to follow her.  She probably had one of her cult follow Rafael and Luisa once they left the prison.

Having Rafael be the bad guy opens so many questions like why did he bring Michael back?  Why would he side with Rose over Luisa? ...etc.