S01.E11: Champagne Supernova

[Urahara]

😏 Alex and Maria can dump Michael and tell him to have cosmic sex with himself.

[ellieart]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

What's their ship name? I've never seen it mentioned here.

Ugh...Malex.  I think it's been mentioned less than a handful of times around here in general and I'll never use it.  Hell, I'll never use Echo either.  So if you see me constantly spelling out their names or the letters (M/A, M/M, M/L)...don't give me shit for it 😉

Edited April 11, 2019 by ellieart

[Jacks-Son]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

What's their ship name? I've never seen it mentioned here.

I don't know what their portmanteau is but it can't be " Malec". That particular shiiper name is taken by Magnus and Alec on "Shadowhunters"!

Edited April 11, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, Jacks-Son said:

In "Siren" they have a Caucasian male, an African-American female (Straight) AND a female Caucasian Mermaid all in the bed happy to satisfy each other with no fears, jealousy, or discrimination.  With Smiles all-around.

The best and only love triangle ever! And that was on Freeform, AKA the artist formally known as ABC Family! The CW should learn from them. Really, love triangles just suck, especially when you like all the characters involved, because someone always loses, someone always gets rooted against and demonized by fans, and it will inevitably go on forever and ever until the audience cant even be bothered to care who ends up getting chosen. 

I am just generally over love triangles. And adding the racial/LGBTQ stuff into it like on this show just makes things even more complicated and can turn even uglier. 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Cristofle said:

 Yeah, Catrina wasn't making me or apparently anyone else happy these past couple days by talking on Twitter about how much she loves love triangles. I'm relatively lucky here that I don't have a real horse in the race

Argh. She really did tweet exactly that:

I "don't have a real horse in the race" either; I have personal reasons for not liking triangles. They're like PTSD triggers for me. So I should just stop watching TV, right?

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

That's a good idea Animemania, however, I don't think Noah would go down without bringing the other aliens with him.  So far, they haven't given him an agenda besides being loony.

I mean say that he is the alien and all of a sudden he can no longer be found by Manes, since he is locked away by the other aliens.

[memememe76]

I like a good love triangle too. Don't see a problem with the tweet. I am personally confused why someone would be surprised and disappointed that a CW show is behaving like a CW show.

Edited April 11, 2019 by memememe76

[Jacks-Son]

I was referring to your idea of turning in Noah as the"Alien Serial Killer", to Manes. Thereby throwing off the scent of the others.

[Jacks-Son]

2 hours ago, ellieart said:

Hell, I'll never use Echo either.

What couple is Echo comprised of?

[AnimeMania]

10 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

I was referring to your idea of turning in Noah as the"Alien Serial Killer", to Manes. Thereby throwing off the scent of the others.

I just meant turn in the name, not the actual "alien".

[ellieart]

21 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

What couple is Echo comprised of?

Max and Liz

Originally I thought they pulled that name from the comment Max made in the pilot regarding the handprint and the feelings that Liz were feeling were an echo of what he feels for her.  But the more I see explanations about it, the more I see it was just a portmanteau of (E)vans and Orte(cho).  Which sucks.  The handprint reasoning was far more interesting.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I'm fine with triangles- they usually become squares/hexagons and then to "I choose me," and then back to another triangle until it either ends with a wedding or a funeral.  It seems to be an age-old thing that goes back further than Shakespeare.  

But as long as we get Max/Michael scenes like we did in this last episode, and more 90s tunes, then I'm pretty happy.  Life is too short for me to get too upset by narrative fiction.

Thus said, couple nicknames/mashups make my teeth itch.

[Jacks-Son]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

go on forever and ever until the audience cant even be bothered to care who ends up getting chosen. 

Nah, I'm still hating on Damon.  Stake to the heart, every time.

p.s. And Spike!!!

Edited April 11, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[Cristofle]

I'm not surprised to see love triangles on a CW show (although I did turn off TVD because Stefan/Elena/Damon was just so, so, so, so bad, and so offensive) but my concern here is that this particular triangle isn't going to end without a character from a marginalized group getting shafted, for all Carina is patting herself on the back for including them.

And yet somehow it's probably still not going to be as bad as Liz/Max/Tess, lol. So...progress?

[phoenics]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Based upon my experiences when I was that age: If you've been friends with someone for years and then happen to hook up, it can feel pretty epic. Like destiny. Plus, being already comfortable with the person doesn't hurt either.
  
  
  

I think it's more than that.  Michael was there when Maria finally broke and fell apart over her mother.  She's been the "Strong black woman" to everyone else on the show - Alex, Liz, her mom, but in that scene where Michael comes to the bar late (I get the feeling he does that a lot) and she tells him they are closed at first before he reveals he really needs a drink because of his horrible day/week/year, she relents.  Then he tries to talk and she shushes him because she needs quiet - or she's afraid of cracking in front of him...

But then she does it anyway and shockingly Michael just wraps her up into him and comforts her.

It may seem like a small thing - but so many times in tv black women characters are never afforded the luxury of breaking down like this and being comforted.  I've seen it with exactly 3 characters - including Maria.

So Maria's "you gotta stop showing up for me like this Michael" line really showed that she'd come to rely on and NEED his emotional support.

That - I think - is one of the draws of Michael to Maria.  She's one of the few people who legitimately seems to *need* him for him and what he does for her emotionally vs it being about *his need* for a home.

Honestly - I *get* Mchael & Maria's connection way more than Michael & Alex - mostly because I just don't buy the "cosmic" connection I'm supposed to get for M&A (because most of their interaction has been angry flirt scenes (a real male/male cliche) where I guess I'm supposed to see steam?).  The one time they were finally connecting as friends I was left pretty much cold.  

Alex has much more easy chemistry with Kyle - I still can't figure out if that's the writing, directing or TB's acting choices or lack of acting choices.

Either way - I'm way more bought into M&M and I'm dreading what's going to happen to Maria because the writing is still telegraphing that M&A is the "cosmic" connection (even if I don't buy it based on what they showed us - it's nowhere close to the level of epic cosmic connection Max/Liz had in the original, which Carina seems to think she copied).

[phoenics]

5 hours ago, ellieart said:

Max and Liz

Originally I thought they pulled that name from the comment Max made in the pilot regarding the handprint and the feelings that Liz were feeling were an echo of what he feels for her.  But the more I see explanations about it, the more I see it was just a portmanteau of (E)vans and Orte(cho).  Which sucks.  The handprint reasoning was far more interesting.

It was both, actually.

[phoenics]

Ugh - I woke up and can't fall back asleep, so I've been churning in my mind re:  Noah/Graham Green.

I still really believe that Grant/Graham Green is another alien.  And I'm probably grasping at straws here, but is it possible that the other murders aren't Noah?  That only Rosa/the girls are?  

Basically what I'm saying is that after the episode ended, I was pretty sure that Noah and Grant are both aliens, with Noah being the bad one and Grant being the good one.  But now I'm wondering if maybe it's going to turn out in the reverse?

If Grant Green is still alive - he'd have to be really really powerful.  That is making me think that something else could be happening here with Noah.  Maybe he's another red herring, but a really convincing one because he's also done bad stuff?  Maybe he was the guy who left with the girl and mind-controlled and then killed her.

But WHY?  What motive could he have?  His motive with Rosa/The Girls/ is clear - but his motive with the other people?  That doesn't really make sense.  What was he getting those people to do?

Whereas, Grant/Graham Green as the one killing all of the other people makes a LOT of sense - especially if he was using those people to search for something (see my other theory in the book/og show thread).  

Aargh I'm sleepy so this is all jumbled - but there are 2 whole episodes left and tonight feels more like they resolved the main plots - but I just don't think they have.  I think there is a HUGE twist coming up and I think GG is at the center of it.  Also - Jesse Manes!  And I really really don't want the PoC to be the bad guy here.  Partially bad?  Maybe - after all they did make Max a killer in this (he killed that man in the desert when he was a scared kid).  Maybe they did that to level the white/PoC as bad guy field?  Which sucks - having Max be the one who has Michael like powers bothers me too because I feel like Carina stole aspects of Max as a character and GAVE it to Michael in her zeal to make Malex "cosmic".  I will never forgive her for diminishing Max/Liz that way.

Anyway - back to my point - I just can't see this being the end of the mystery.

Maybe I'm wrong and the last couple of episodes will be one of the aliens ending up in captivity and GG is human.

I dunno.  I need sleep.

Oh - and when is the show going to explain why Maria can block Isobel's mindraping?  Isobel seemed pretty ticked about that.  And clearly Maria has some kind of psychic ability.

[Urahara]

32 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I think it's more than that.  Michael was there when Maria finally broke and fell apart over her mother.  She's been the "Strong black woman" to everyone else on the show - Alex, Liz, her mom, but in that scene where Michael comes to the bar late (I get the feeling he does that a lot) and she tells him they are closed at first before he reveals he really needs a drink because of his horrible day/week/year, she relents.  Then he tries to talk and she shushes him because she needs quiet - or she's afraid of cracking in front of him...

But then she does it anyway and shockingly Michael just wraps her up into him and comforts her.

It may seem like a small thing - but so many times in tv black women characters are never afforded the luxury of breaking down like this and being comforted.  I've seen it with exactly 3 characters - including Maria.

So Maria's "you gotta stop showing up for me like this Michael" line really showed that she'd come to rely on and NEED his emotional support.

That - I think - is one of the draws of Michael to Maria.  She's one of the few people who legitimately seems to *need* him for him and what he does for her emotionally vs it being about *his need* for a home.

Honestly - I *get* Mchael & Maria's connection way more than Michael & Alex - mostly because I just don't buy the "cosmic" connection I'm supposed to get for M&A (because most of their interaction has been angry flirt scenes (a real male/male cliche) where I guess I'm supposed to see steam?).  The one time they were finally connecting as friends I was left pretty much cold.  

Alex has much more easy chemistry with Kyle - I still can't figure out if that's the writing, directing or TB's acting choices or lack of acting choices.

Either way - I'm way more bought into M&M and I'm dreading what's going to happen to Maria because the writing is still telegraphing that M&A is the "cosmic" connection (even if I don't buy it based on what they showed us - it's nowhere close to the level of epic cosmic connection Max/Liz had in the original, which Carina seems to think she copied).

10 minutes ago, Urahara said:

32 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I think it's more than that.  Michael was there when Maria finally broke and fell apart over her mother.  She's been the "Strong black woman" to everyone else on the show - Alex, Liz, her mom, but in that scene where Michael comes to the bar late (I get the feeling he does that a lot) and she tells him they are closed at first before he reveals he really needs a drink because of his horrible day/week/year, she relents.  Then he tries to talk and she shushes him because she needs quiet - or she's afraid of cracking in front of him...

But then she does it anyway and shockingly Michael just wraps her up into him and comforts her.

It may seem like a small thing - but so many times in tv black women characters are never afforded the luxury of breaking down like this and being comforted.  I've seen it with exactly 3 characters - including Maria.

So Maria's "you gotta stop showing up for me like this Michael" line really showed that she'd come to rely on and NEED his emotional support.

That - I think - is one of the draws of Michael to Maria.  She's one of the few people who legitimately seems to *need* him for him and what he does for her emotionally vs it being about *his need* for a home.

Honestly - I *get* Mchael & Maria's connection way more than Michael & Alex - mostly because I just don't buy the "cosmic" connection I'm supposed to get for M&A (because most of their interaction has been angry flirt scenes (a real male/male cliche) where I guess I'm supposed to see steam?).  The one time they were finally connecting as friends I was left pretty much cold.  

Alex has much more easy chemistry with Kyle - I still can't figure out if that's the writing, directing or TB's acting choices or lack of acting choices.

Either way - I'm way more bought into M&M and I'm dreading what's going to happen to Maria because the writing is still telegraphing that M&A is the "cosmic" connection (even if I don't buy it based on what they showed us - it's nowhere close to the level of epic cosmic connection Max/Liz had in the original, which Carina seems to think she copied).

Edited April 11, 2019 by Urahara
accident

[Cristofle]

3 hours ago, phoenics said:

But WHY?  What motive could he have?  His motive with Rosa/The Girls/ is clear - but his motive with the other people?  That doesn't really make sense.  What was he getting those people to do?

Noah may just enjoy killing people. I got the sense in Isobel's mind that he was enjoying terrifying her. Then with Max, he was enjoying that he could just keep hurting him, because Max refused to harm his sister's body. And he was enjoying at first the power he seemed to have over Liz, and how scared she seemed to be.  It's POSSIBLE they'll throw another curveball, but it's going to be hard to sell at this point. Noah may be killing people because he just likes hurting people. 

It's interesting though, because this SHOULD have a pretty dramatic impact on Michael's worldview. Michael seems to have hardened himself against humans (in part because of how he grew up, and then it was solidified by Jesse Manes). But now he's being faced with arguably the worst being he's ever encountered, and it's someone from the home planet he's been trying to get back to. Meanwhile, he's been growing stronger connections to humans - not just Maria and Alex, but he's been getting closer to Liz as well, and Kyle and Cam have gone out of their way to help the Pod Squad. 

[AnimeMania]

If the injection removed Noah's powers maybe Isobel can alien probe Noah and find out why he is killing people and everything he knows about aliens.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Cristofle said:

It's interesting though, because this SHOULD have a pretty dramatic impact on Michael's worldview.

6 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

If the injection removed Noah's powers maybe Isobel can alien probe Noah and find out why he is killing people and everything he knows about aliens.

Yes, and yes. Maybe Mr. Manes has some human military mind control project going that is controlling Noah. But that wouldn't fit with Mr. Manes story so far. Maybe another human is running the project. Sort of like if Mr. Manes turns out to be like OG Roswell's good guy/friend of aliens a la OG Sheriff Valenti, and the (maybe) yet unknown human is like OG Roswell's agent Pierce.

Edited April 11, 2019 by shapeshifter

[kirkola]

17 hours ago, ellieart said:

Ugh...Malex.  I think it's been mentioned less than a handful of times around here in general and I'll never use it.  Hell, I'll never use Echo either.  So if you see me constantly spelling out their names or the letters (M/A, M/M, M/L)...don't give me shit for it 😉

Malex makes me think of the big bad from last season's Legends of Tomorrow.  That's not good.  I prefer the names (they aren't that long) or initials if there's two of 'em (using one would get confusing fast with the M's). 

And I don't like Echo either.  That's a character from "Dollhouse". 

And I'm starting to think I watch too much TV.  (grin)

[shapeshifter]

25 minutes ago, kirkola said:

Malex makes me think of the big bad from last season's Legends of Tomorrow.

It makes me think of Ex-Lax.

[AngelKitty]

I'm kind of annoyed the bad alien is Noah. He was the most obvious, for goodness sake. And why did he use Isobel to woo Rosa if he loved her? Was she known to be gay? And how would that even work? It doesn't make sense to me.

[Callaphera]

Didn't the show-runner say at some point that Isobel killing Rosa was all Isobel - there was no crazy alien possession or anything like that? And now it was Noah in her head with the crazy alien possession making her do it? 

Also Isobel said that she couldn't make anyone do anything they didn't already want to do - kinda like hypnosis - so I wonder if that's the same for Noah and if that means Isobel really did want to kill Rosa. 

[Cristofle]

1 hour ago, Callaphera said:

Didn't the show-runner say at some point that Isobel killing Rosa was all Isobel - there was no crazy alien possession or anything like that? And now it was Noah in her head with the crazy alien possession making her do it? 

Also Isobel said that she couldn't make anyone do anything they didn't already want to do - kinda like hypnosis - so I wonder if that's the same for Noah and if that means Isobel really did want to kill Rosa. 

I feel like Carina sort of insinuated that an alien wasn't causing the BLACK OUTS, which the show is technically saying Noah does not - he just takes advantage of them. I mean, it was definitely a cop-out, lol.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Callaphera said:

Also Isobel said that she couldn't make anyone do anything they didn't already want to do - kinda like hypnosis - so I wonder if that's the same for Noah and if that means Isobel really did want to kill Rosa. 

This fits with Noah overpowering Isobel's mind meld.

[Cristofle]

I don't think so re: Noah. The barista was specifically non-violent and hated guns. I think Noah is not an "influencer" - I think he can truly control people, step inside them and turn them into puppets. It took a minute for Liz's magic serum to work and I don't think she secretly wanted to stop running for her life - I think he actually made her do so. And Isobel said in the episode that it was different from her ability - she had completely lost all function and was simply along for the ride.

[KittenPokerCheater]

Apparently Noah has honed his powers a lot more than the other three.  I think Isabel mentions she hasn't practiced her skills a lot- of the three, only Michael seems to use his on a regular basis.

[phoenics]

So - I've been working insane hours and keep running this episode on a loop - and I noticed some stuff.

First - I think Noah is meant to be the "protector" of Max, Isobel and Michael.  Because when Isobel tries to get the truth from him in her mindrape thingee, he says "I will never let anything happen to you.  I will protect you."

Also - Noah hands Michael back his coat in the first scene of them all in the Crashdown Cafe when they are trying to figure out how to proceed now that they know there is a 4th alien.  As Isobel and Michael get up to leave with Noah, that's when Noah hands Michael his coat. 

And - when Maria was talking with Liz at the dance and she drinks some champagne and then has a kind of mind fart - that's either when the drugs in the drink kick in or it's when the mind control kicks in.

Whoever said that this show is basically writing a future fanfic of the OGShow (I think it was Cristofle?), I think they are exactly right.  They are dropping in a tiny bit from the books, but really the inspiration really is the OGShow - as if this is a kind of alternate timeline based on the OG Show instead of on the books alone.

[KittenPokerCheater]

phoenics- I get insomnia a LOT and this show has become go-to when I can't sleep.  Like you, I start to notice way too many things- but I didn't catch the bit about Noah handing Michael's coat to him.  So Noah put the pollen bomb in Michael's coat then, and Maria wasn't being possessed when she and Michael had the snarky bit at the top of the show.

Good eye!

[ellieart]

21 minutes ago, phoenics said:

21 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Whoever said that this show is basically writing a future fanfic of the OGShow (I think it was Cristofle?), I think they are exactly right.  They are dropping in a tiny bit from the books, but really the inspiration really is the OGShow - as if this is a kind of alternate timeline based on the OG Show instead of on the books alone.

I've read alternate OG fanfics better written than what the professionals are doing on this one.  We already had one bad OG Roswell fanfic called Twilight and the subsequently worse fanfic of a fanfic in 50 Shades of bullshit.  They really should have tried so much harder 😛

Also, oof, is fandom imploding real hard today.  Holy shitshow.

[Callaphera]

2 hours ago, Cristofle said:

I don't think so re: Noah. The barista was specifically non-violent and hated guns. I think Noah is not an "influencer" - I think he can truly control people, step inside them and turn them into puppets. It took a minute for Liz's magic serum to work and I don't think she secretly wanted to stop running for her life - I think he actually made her do so. And Isobel said in the episode that it was different from her ability - she had completely lost all function and was simply along for the ride.

That is super fucking creepy considering that Noah and Isobel been a couple/married for however long and he could have been doing that at any point in their relationship. 

But if he does control them and he needs them to be unconscious to step inside of them - the guy at the hospital, Maria being roofied - how did he control Isobel from her attempt to mind-rape him first (she was never unconscious) and how did he stop Liz from running away (she was never unconscious)?

[Cristofle]

7 hours ago, Callaphera said:

That is super fucking creepy considering that Noah and Isobel been a couple/married for however long and he could have been doing that at any point in their relationship. 

But if he does control them and he needs them to be unconscious to step inside of them - the guy at the hospital, Maria being roofied - how did he control Isobel from her attempt to mind-rape him first (she was never unconscious) and how did he stop Liz from running away (she was never unconscious)?

Good question re: Liz - maybe he wasn't controlling her mind, but at such a close range was able to control her body (sort of an extension of Michael's power rather than Isobel's). But I think Isobel opened herself up to being controlled by him by attempting to get in his mind - she appears to go in some sort of trance when she does that. She never physically passed out that we saw in 1x06 except at the very end when Noah left her after killing Rosa- I think in her case, it's more a sense of losing time, where she's vulnerable enough if she's upset or scared to the point of getting to that state, that Noah can enter her mind. 

[Callaphera]

21 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Good question re: Liz - maybe he wasn't controlling her mind, but at such a close range was able to control her body (sort of an extension of Michael's power rather than Isobel's). But I think Isobel opened herself up to being controlled by him by attempting to get in his mind - she appears to go in some sort of trance when she does that. She never physically passed out that we saw in 1x06 except at the very end when Noah left her after killing Rosa- I think in her case, it's more a sense of losing time, where she's vulnerable enough if she's upset or scared to the point of getting to that state, that Noah can enter her mind. 

Can Michael control people's bodies or does he just have telekinesis of objects? Maybe it's something he comes into if/when he levels up. 

And it opens up the question of how many times it's happened with Isobel. The only person Isobel trusts more than her husband is Max (she didn't seem that close with Michael) so it's not that much of a stretch to think that there have been a handful of times throughout her and Noah's relationship that she's been in an unconscious or emotionally vulnerable state. I dunno, I'd be questioning whether every "drained the bottle of wine, don't remember stumbling to bed" hangover was really a hangover or a Maria-style roofie incident. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to think it's a possibility - Noah seemed pretty happy with puppet!Isobel before he got stabbed in the neck with a syringe. He could have been hijacking her on the reg to go joyriding in her body. 

I feel like these type of mind-and-body control storylines never touch that much on the question of trust and consent and free choice and how frightening the thought of something like that could be. It's a rape allegory. That's not to say that they won't touch on it but my hopes aren't very high. They pretty much glossed over it with Isobel's power ("I can't make you do anything you wouldn't do yourself" but no one acts on every thought they have!) and Noah's power seems much stronger. 

8 hours ago, phoenics said:

First - I think Noah is meant to be the "protector" of Max, Isobel and Michael.  Because when Isobel tries to get the truth from him in her mindrape thingee, he says "I will never let anything happen to you.  I will protect you."

Noah controlled Isobel and tried to use her to shoot Max. Locking Max and Michael in the bunker also seems more like self-preservation of Noah's end than it came off as him trying to protect them. If he's protecting anyone out of the trio, you could make a case for Isobel only and probably because she's his favourite/easiest to control/easiest to gain access to. Unless there's going to be a mysterious fifth alien that's controlling the fourth alien that the first three aliens never knew about. 

[Cristofle]

1 hour ago, Callaphera said:

They pretty much glossed over it with Isobel's power ("I can't make you do anything you wouldn't do yourself" but no one acts on every thought they have!) and Noah's power seems much stronger. 

And I'm not even sure that's true - I think several of us have questioned how Isobel could make Liz forget how she feels about Max if she doesn't have the power to influence beyond what the person would choose. 

(as an aside, it was pretty crappy of Isobel to play on Liz's insecurity as a romantic partner by telling her she must have wanted to leave Max behind deep down without mentioning to her that she COULDN'T get her to leave Max this time around, because she felt her feelings for him were too strong now. It's fine to want to protect her brother, but not to deliberately not give Liz all the information)

I definitely think Michael can move a human body - he floated three dead bodies after all. I'm not sure he's ever TRIED to move a human body while a person was conscious and actively resisting him, though. Nor am I sure he would want to unless he was protecting someone else. However, Noah is clearly stronger than all three of them. 

[holyholly]

Has it yet been established why Noah felt the need to use Isobel to talk to Rosa? If he was so crazy about her why couldn't he just talk to her as himself? Rosa didn't seem to even be into Isobel.

[Cristofle]

2 hours ago, holyholly said:

Has it yet been established why Noah felt the need to use Isobel to talk to Rosa? If he was so crazy about her why couldn't he just talk to her as himself? Rosa didn't seem to even be into Isobel.

Not yet. I think Rosa knew him, personally. It's just a hunch, but I felt when "Isobel" was saying she would never let anything hurt her, it was like Rosa realized who she was really talking to. So my theory is she knew him and either had no interest in him or they had some sort of bad breakup. It's not based on anything the show has said thus far, though.

[phoenics]

On 4/10/2019 at 10:28 AM, Whimsy said:

You know, that now makes me think back a little bit.  My memory may be wrong (because I don't pay super close attention to this show), but didn't they show us scenes of Noah all by himself freaking out?  I hate when shows do that to try to throw off the audience.  Just show the perpetrator in scenes with others where it makes sense they'd be keeping up the act. But, to show scenes of them alone- there's no way he'd act that way if there were no one to see him.  Anyway, I knew Noah was suspect the second he didn't flip out about aliens.

IIRC, when Noah punched the mirror at the hospital, it was after she'd become gravely ill.  So Noah was probably wondering what could have caused her to be so ill - she's alien - and to be afraid that whatever it was could hurt him too.

I think the frustration was that he couldn't figure out what it was exactly that was harming her.  It was probably self preservation.

I think he never knew where their pods were - so when he found Isobel in her pod he was just glad to know where the podsquad hung out and where the pods were.  Because it was only after that that he tracked things to Liz and her serum and the antidote.

[Jacks-Son]

You gotta feel bad for Isobel.  Married to an "Alien Serial Killer" who used her to commit murder. The man she has been married to for years not only is an alien (that alone is ironic) but he's in love with another woman AND used her body to flirt with that woman.  Does that qualify as a "Love Triangle"? Probably not, as Rosa wasn't in love with him. Twisted!!

[phoenics]

6 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

You gotta feel bad for Isobel.  Married to an "Alien Serial Killer" who used her to commit murder. The man she has been married to for years not only is an alien (that alone is ironic) but he's in love with another woman AND used her body to flirt with that woman.  Does that qualify as a "Love Triangle"? Probably not, as Rosa wasn't in love with him. Twisted!!

That begs the question of why Noah used Isobel's body at all?  Does Noah have a body of his own?  Or does he have to keep body jumping or something?  It's weird why he used Isobel with Rosa.  That makes no sense at all.

It makes me wonder still if the murderer of Rosa/The Girls is the same as the murderer of all of the others?  There are still two episodes left and it feels anti-climactic for it to just be an info dump about their home planet.

[Jacks-Son]

Is it possible that there's an alien possessing Noah?  Was Noah always an alien, even when the two first met? Yeah, I don't get the reason for using Isobel to approach Rosa, what's the endgame, a physical relationship with Rosa using Isobel's body? Why not inhabit the body of someone Rosa was attracted to? Why play a "creepy" stalker role, as he was seriously upping the ick factor judging by Rosa's reaction?  Perhaps he had Isobel kill her because she rebuffed his Isobel "suit" (like an M.I.B. "Edgar suit")?

[methodwriter85]

*Whisper* I like Echo. It works as a portmanteau and it works for that line in the pilot.

Anyway, I feel like Noah makes the most sense, but I don't get why he did any of this past the 2008 murders and the covering of it up. Was he just trying to get Liz to leave? And if that's true, couldn't he just take control of someone else's body far away from Roswell? And what would be the point in actually marrying Isobel?

I did like that you see the same facial expressions that PossessedIsobel had after Noah's duplicitous is revealed.

Edited April 13, 2019 by methodwriter85

[Lady Calypso]

I'm one of the ones that said that Noah being the fourth alien is way too easy but had no other ideas on who it could be. I mean, there's no surprise that it was Noah. Of course, we'll probably get some answers on his motivations soon enough, but I guess I'm a bit annoyed that they went the totally obvious route. But he was the biggest unknown in the cast, so who else could it have been?

Now, his motivations are unclear. He says he wants to protect Isobel. He doesn't specify whether he also wants to protect Max and Michael. It seems to point to no with Noah possessing Isobel and almost shooting Max. But still, there is so much we don't know and I'm not sure whether they're going to wrap the fourth alien storyline next episode to move on to the next big plot (probably). I do think there's more than just these four aliens. 

Michael/Maria still works very well for me. No surprise I didn't notice Alex's absence (and it's a shame as I love the actor but don't really like Alex/Michael) but I am surprised to not have missed Kyle. 

I did like having everyone gather in the diner for an alien meeting. That was actually a lot of fun.

Otherwise, we only have known Noah for eleven episodes so I don't feel any attachment toward him; just more disappointment because of how Isobel was horribly violated by her own husband and even more questionable decisions made by Carina that really sketch me out (not just the Alex vs Maria stuff, but how she's handled Liz getting together with Max, Noah possessing Isobel for Rosa, and other things). 

[Myrrhine]

On 4/9/2019 at 9:04 PM, phoenics said:

So I'm going to just take a HUGE bow here because Noah being the 4th alien was my original (not seen anywhere else except from me)  theory from way back.  That theory spread so fast that suddenly Noah was "too obvious" to be the 4th alien (and 50-eleven folks tried to claim they came up with it when I know I was the first on twitter, reddit and here)  - but again - when I floated that theory folks acted like that was insane.

HA!  Doubt me at your peril! LOL.

Kudos to you! I remember this came up back when Noah directed Liz to the storage area where she and grant were attacked by Wyatt under the control of... Noah! 

On 4/9/2019 at 9:19 PM, KittenPokerCheater said:

I liked the scene with Michael/Max.  But I don't think they should be all "everything is magically better between us" yet. Michael talking about how his scars were a warning against being hopeful- that could have come off as SUPER cheesy, but the actor did a good job making it less so.

On 4/9/2019 at 9:23 PM, Whodunnit said:

One bizarre thing; how come Max went to the opening with his forehead bleeding and not even a bandage, and not a soul there said anything?

I know they HAD to have Max and Liz dance at this shebang, but if they were trying to keep a low profile to keep the 4th alien relaxed, maybe both Michael AND Max should have stayed out of view, and then he wouldn't know that they were rescued and back in play!!!!! 

On 4/9/2019 at 9:54 PM, tennisgurl said:

I doubt this will fix everything in their relationship, but it was nice to see Max and Michael actually hashing out some of their issues. Some of the beats were super over the top dramatic, like Michael keeping his messed up hand to show him much people sucked, but the actors made it work. I also liked that they addressed that Max feels guilty about how he and Isobel got a nice home and Michael got screwed over time and again, I always got that vibe from him in his interactions with Michael, so it was nice to see it out in the open. 

The Pod Squad scenes are my favorite by far, and I am annoyed by the distance between Max and Michael to begin with and the primary explanation for it (they remind each other of the night Rosa and the other girls died) makes it even worse. I am also getting confused by the mood swings of their dynamic. They work together and seem to be reconciling, and then Michael's deeply irritated the next time they interact. I can see how buried tensions could emerge when they are trapped together, but I felt like Michael was irrationally put out with Max from the moment he woke up. 

On 4/9/2019 at 10:50 PM, Chick2Chic said:

It is nice to see Maria finally getting more involved / screentime considering how sidelined she was in the first half of the season. As an OG Roswell Michael & Maria fan  - if they had a portmanteau then or now, I have missed it - I like seeing it in the reboot too. 

Their ship was referred to as Candy (because M&M). 

On 4/10/2019 at 7:22 AM, Astylis said:

I have no idea why I am still watching. It jumps from scene to scene so fast you don't even understand how you got that far in the story and the characters are all acting different. Even if you completely separate it from the original, it's still a mess of a show on it's own. I feel like the production of this show is someone saying to the writers "I want to see girl covered in silver shampoo, figure out a way."

And yet, I'll still watch next week, because now we have to figure out the Grant Green mystery.

I agree that it's kind of confusing exactly what rapport exists between which characters at various times. Maybe they just decide they want to have a fight or heartwarming conversation between certain characters and then make it happen.

On 4/10/2019 at 2:41 PM, kirkola said:

In this version, they've set it up so that no matter what happens, a large portion of the fan base will be ticked.  Either Michael stays with Alex and once more a POC loses with less screen time and less plot lines.  Or Michael chooses Maria, and Alex gets the reduced screen/plot, which is bad for homoesexuals in the fan base.  The only win-win is to make them polyamorous, and I just don't see the network having that sorta skill to do it justice.

My theory is that they are going to make Alex into the aliens' nemesis. Not that he will turn evil, but that he will decide that the aliens are dangerous and not to be trusted, and his first loyalty is to the US of A, and he has to do his duty, etc., even if he does love Michael. So it would be a star-crossed lovers situation, which will be sad for M/A fans but would give the character a ton to do. 

I didn't notice their absence in the moment, but it's maybe a little odd Alex and Kyle weren't in this one. Kind of an all hands on deck situation. 

On 4/11/2019 at 1:39 PM, shapeshifter said:

It makes me think of Ex-Lax.

Makes me think of Maalox.

On 4/11/2019 at 9:19 PM, phoenics said:

First - I think Noah is meant to be the "protector" of Max, Isobel and Michael.  Because when Isobel tries to get the truth from him in her mindrape thingee, he says "I will never let anything happen to you.  I will protect you."

I liked the idea of the mind control alien using the people to find something. That made me consider that if he's not a protector, maybe Noah wants to stick close to Isabel because he thinks their people will come back for her / the others / and he wants to get in on the exit plan. Hmmm.

On 4/12/2019 at 8:31 AM, Cristofle said:

And I'm not even sure that's true - I think several of us have questioned how Isobel could make Liz forget how she feels about Max if she doesn't have the power to influence beyond what the person would choose. 

(as an aside, it was pretty crappy of Isobel to play on Liz's insecurity as a romantic partner by telling her she must have wanted to leave Max behind deep down without mentioning to her that she COULDN'T get her to leave Max this time around, because she felt her feelings for him were too strong now. It's fine to want to protect her brother, but not to deliberately not give Liz all the information)

Yeah, and did Kyle really want to stab Isobel with a giant potentially fatal and highly experimental serum? Seemed like no. I feel like they are playing a bit loose with this claim.

[shapeshifter]

Re the portmanteau of "Malex":

35 minutes ago, Myrrhine said:

On 4/11/2019 at 1:39 PM, shapeshifter said:

It makes me think of Ex-Lax.

Makes me think of Maalox.

That's it!
  
  
  

35 minutes ago, Myrrhine said:

Yeah, and did Kyle really want to stab Isobel with a giant potentially fatal and highly experimental serum?

Probably. Heh.
  
  
  

On 4/9/2019 at 9:54 PM, tennisgurl said:

Some of the beats were super over the top dramatic, like Michael keeping his messed up hand to show him much people sucked, but the actors made it work.

I keep thinking that because of Max's healing power, Michael's hand is Chekov's hand.  
This episode's dialog reinforced that idea for me: 

• [MICHAEL] (GROANING) 
• [MAX] What's wrong? 
• [MICHAEL] My hand just stiffens, seizes up sometimes.
• [MAX] So what's the real story? 
• [MICHAEL] I've told you.
• [MAX] No. You've said bar fight, you've said junkyard accident, you've said chupacabra. You've never told me the truth.
• [MICHAEL] Alex Manes's father. He caught us together. And he just snapped.
• [MAX] You never let me heal it.
• [MICHAEL] Yeah. How would I explain a perfectly good hand to Alex? Anything to protect the secret.
• [MAX] Talk to me, dude.
• [MICHAEL] Nothing else for us to do. I didn't let you heal it because I needed the reminder. I needed evidence of what could happen when you believe that humanity might be good. Alex made me believe there was a place for me here. Hope's a dangerous thing. These scars, they remind me to avoid it in the future.

I just hope they don't go the route from the mid-oughts scifi show, Invasion, in which after a human had his amputated arm regrown by extraterrestrial powers, the ET hiding in plain sight convinced the human to cut it off again because society couldn't handle miracles. I stopped watching then. Horror is not my thing. No zombies, vampires, or GoT either.

I'd prefer Michael comes to trust a few humans and lets Max heal his hand as a symbol of that trust. However, I don't see anything indicating that Michael Vlamis plays guitar, so maybe they won't go there, or at least not that far.
  

  

  
   
  

Edited April 14, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Emily Thrace]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Re the portmanteau of "Malex":

That's it!
  
  
  

Probably. Heh.
  
  
  

I keep thinking that because of Max's healing power, Michael's hand is Chekov's hand.  
This episode's dialog reinforced that idea for me: 

• [MICHAEL] (GROANING) 
• [MAX] What's wrong? 
• [MICHAEL] My hand just stiffens, seizes up sometimes.
• [MAX] So what's the real story? 
• [MICHAEL] I've told you.
• [MAX] No. You've said bar fight, you've said junkyard accident, you've said chupacabra. You've never told me the truth.
• [MICHAEL] Alex Manes's father. He caught us together. And he just snapped.
• [MAX] You never let me heal it.
• [MICHAEL] Yeah. How would I explain a perfectly good hand to Alex? Anything to protect the secret.
• [MAX] Talk to me, dude.
• [MICHAEL] Nothing else for us to do. I didn't let you heal it because I needed the reminder. I needed evidence of what could happen when you believe that humanity might be good. Alex made me believe there was a place for me here. Hope's a dangerous thing. These scars, they remind me to avoid it in the future.

I just hope they don't go the route from the mid-oughts scifi show, Invasion, in which after a human had his amputated arm regrown by extraterrestrial powers, the ET hiding in plain sight convinced the human to cut it off again because society couldn't handle miracles. I stopped watching then. Horror is not my thing. No zombies, vampires, or GoT either.

I'd prefer Michael comes to trust a few humans and lets Max heal his hand as a symbol of that trust. However, I don't see anything indicating that Michael Vlamis plays guitar, so maybe they won't go there, or at least not that far.
  

  

  
   
  

The problem with that is the hand issue is actually the actors and its been written in. So if they fix it for the show the actor then has to wear a prosthetic or hide his hand in every scene. Its possible (Radar from MASH is probably the best example) but it would be hard especially for a telekenetic character.

[ellieart]

16 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

The problem with that is the hand issue is actually the actors and its been written in. So if they fix it for the show the actor then has to wear a prosthetic or hide his hand in every scene. Its possible (Radar from MASH is probably the best example) but it would be hard especially for a telekenetic character.

Michael Vlamis doesn't have any issue with his hand in real life though.  What you're seeing is him wearing a prosthetic.  They could very easily write Max healing it in, and then Vlamis wouldn't have to undergo roughly an hour of makeup to get it put on for every episode.  

[KittenPokerCheater]

Are we sure that it's all prosthetic?  I guess we will find out- depending on if Max ever heals it or not.  Or, if someone here meets him and gets a gander at his hands.

[ellieart]

9 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Are we sure that it's all prosthetic?  I guess we will find out- depending on if Max ever heals it or not.  Or, if someone here meets him and gets a gander at his hands.

Based on every photo posted on his Instagram (when not in character) and every professional photo taken of him, and also the fact that he posted a video of them making a cast of his hand for the prosthetic piece, I'd be comfortable betting all my money on it being specifically a Michael Guerin thing.  He also played the guitar during his Instagram takeover on the show's page last week...his hand is completely normal.