Season One Discussion

[Starchild]

For sure they need to be cut down to a half hour. Room 104 does fine with that length. It's more than enough time to tell a story, if you can write it well.

[ottoDbusdriver]

15 hours ago, Starchild said:

For sure they need to be cut down to a half hour. Room 104 does fine with that length. It's more than enough time to tell a story, if you can write it well.

Agreed, so far all 4 episodes would have been vastly improved by condensing into a half hour format.

So was A Traveler also from the future ?  A future alien. Because there was one remark about being at this place at this time.

When was this supposed to take place ?  Because A Traveler's driver's license was set to expire on Oct. 21, 2017, and Yuka didn't seem to think that was out of sorts.

[Starchild]

To be honest I found this episode confusing. Was the sheriff guilty of passing information to Russians or was that just a story made up by this alien? Were the Russians part of this at all? What was the point of the aliens engaging with this town at all? Did they need the power cut off to the listening post but didn't know how to find the shed? Did they think that by sending him out there he'd shut down the power? Why?

Confused.

[xaxat]

I agree with everyone who believes this episode could have used a good pruning. 

Were Yuka and her brother (other Native Alaskans?) sleeper agents destined to work for The Traveler and his kind? Several times they discuss how they are different from the white inhabitants but sometimes it seemed to go beyond just race. Well after it's clear Traveler is an alien, he says that she knew who he was. Traveler's last words to her are about ships entering the mesosphere, which would only make sense if you accept space flight. And her brother definitely knew he was an alien and regime change was on the way. 

Was Yuka's brother's story about their people walking on the Northern Lights true? (Or at least as true as a Christian might believe in Christmas.)

Was the captain the equivalent of the three armed alien from "Will the Real Martian Please Stand Up?"" Unaware that another group of aliens is about to invade? (Which makes Traveler's hat a nice nod to the original.) I'm thinking he's not an alien, just a descendant of the original alien invaders.

Yuka's brother sure seemed calm in the end. I would have been like.

[benteen]

Man, this show has been TERRIBLE.  A real disappointment.  While the length of the episodes is hurting it (the openings in particular take far too much time), it's the story quality that hurts it the most.  I expected better from Jordan Peele after seeing Get Out and Us.

I saw this as a reimagining of The Martians are Due on Maple Street.  The 2002 Twilight Zone did a remake of it.  It was nowhere near as good as the first one but did have a good contemporary twist at the end.  A Traveler didn't even have that.  Very poor effort.

Steven Yuen was good.  Greg Kinnear is always good but it was hard for me to take his character seriously when he didn't even seem that bothered by the idea of a total stranger breaking into his jail cell.  Seriously, that would have raised hell with a county sheriff, let alone the head of a station trooper station.  Especially when he went on and on about how important their job was to support the satellite base and Traveler told him he had unknown Russian technology. 

I don't know what the hell storyline they were trying to go with Yuka's character.

[tennisgurl]

Who knew that Glenn could be so fucking creepy?

This is an episode that really should have been cut down, like I have thought with a lot of these episodes. It had a lot going for it, but it also took awhile to get moving, had a lot of filler or ideas that never seemed to go anywhere, and seemed rather flabby at times. If it just been cut about fifteen or twenty minutes, i think this would have worked a lot better. 

This seemed to be a bit of a take off of Will the Real Martian Please Stand Up (including the hat hiding an alien bit!) from the first series, but with a creepier atmosphere. Like I said, I liked a lot of this episode, especially the performance by Steven Yeun, which was very effectively creepy and unsettling while also being charming, the atmosphere was full on increasing tension, and I liked the way they tied Christmas into the story, even if its not exactly Christmas season. The Santa myths being a lie that we enjoy, like the Traveler said, the light in the sky that looked like the Star of Bethlehem being an alien ship, the Traveler traveling the sky Santa style, that all worked pretty well.  Really, all the actors did really well, and really added to the unsettling claustrophobic nature of the episode. 

Really, Yeun was so good at being creepy and mysterious, I almost wished they had left it more ambiguous as to who or what he actually was.

[Annber03]

"The Wunderkind"-gee, I wonder who the kid/plot of this episode was supposed to represent :p? Either that, or now we have an idea of what it'd be like if Anthony Fremont from "It's a Good Life" became president, one of the two. That Shining-esque moment of Oliver riding his bike through the hallway was a particularly good touch. 

Also liked the way they went back and forth between Raff's increasing panic while being held captive and the buildup to that moment. The ending was appropriately unsettling. And I liked the interaction between Raff and Oliver in general, and seeing Raff struggle with being gentle and protective and firm and honest. 

[Penman61]

"The Wunderkind" proves that reality has lapped any imaginable satire. 

[Maximum Taco]

Ugh, "The Wunderkind" was just awful. 

First of all, you went to the trouble to cast John Larroquette, and you use him in one scene? ONE SCENE?! What the damn hell Twilight Zone? What the actual damn hell? I really hope there was another episode starring John Larroquette and they were like "Hey John, wanna be in another one? We only need one scene" cause otherwise that is a waste and a shame.   

Secondly the development of Oliver was all over the place. So he's smart enough to realize that schmaltz sells, and smart enough to use the death of his dog to manipulate Raff, but also dumb enough to not realize how bodied he's gonna get in a debate which he didn't prepare for? And he's smart enough to threaten video game companies with levies, but dumb enough to not realize how congress works? Come on man. I realize what they are trying to do, with the current child who occupies the White House in real life having a woeful understanding about how the Presidency cannot control the Judicial or Legislative branches, but at a certain point we reach into a too silly place. And even that man-child had a plan for debating, he didn't just go in there and cry for his mom.   

Thirdly, they never really go into how this kid gets what he wants. 

One second his parents are demanding he see his doctor, the next his mother is refusing to step in as he enforces a country wide ban on "old doctors"? I mean come on, you can't flip the script like that without showing why she has a change of heart and is suddenly ok with a fellow 6th grader overseeing her son's medical care. I mean demanding video games for everyone, ok, that's not gonna change the world, and would probably make a lot of people like the kid. But immediately nullifying the health care system (and yes I see the parallel, but there was a more plausible way to go about it) and having everyone just ok with it? Again even the current commander in chief is coming under fire for his lack of plan when it comes to health care. 

I'm usually on board for a trip through the Twilight Zone and am willing to suspend disbelief, this one asked too much of me. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

I was ready to come in compaining about Jordan and several of the actors pronouncing wunderkind incorrectly but according to Wikipedia in UK and US English it's okay. Meh.

And here is where we are headed, an electorate overly consumed with social media, and presidential candidates measured by the number of YouTube followers they have and how many retweets their latest campaign video gets.

Nicely done, Jordan.

[Starchild]

This made no sense. Never mind how as soon as he threatened profits of some of the most powerful companies in the world, he would have been immediately shut down by the capitalist/government lobbyist machine. And they can't fix the ACA in 10 years but they can change the rules for who can become a Doctor with an exec action?

What about the fact that it's law that you have to be 35 to run for president? If the rest of it weren't so ridiculous I might have been able to handwave that, but...

Not sure how much more leeway I can grant this incarnation.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Starchild
"Obamacare" just disappeared from the text, wtf

[ottoDbusdriver]

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

What about the fact that it's law that you have to be 35 to run for president? If the rest of it weren't so ridiculous I might have been able to handwave that, but...

I think Raff mentioned that a couple of times, early on in the beginning and later on when he confronted Oliver's mother in the White House hallway, that she was the real President and Oliver was using her as a Presidential proxy (since she was over 35).  That's the part that surprised me, because I figured all of Oliver's commands/executive actions would have to be run through his mother -- and people (like the Army General) would obey her orders.

And if you thought Oliver was a horrible kid before, can you imagine what he would be like after he figured out that he can get the Secret Service to kill anyone he wants just by shouting "gun" and pretending to be threatened, and getting away with it ?

[tennisgurl]

I guess this was something of an update of Its A Good Life, with a kid with too much power getting to have everything he wants, and his every childish whim taken seriously because if he does not get what he wants, people die. 

I do find the idea of a child president, who screams and whines when they dont get what they want, and deciding that anyone who disagrees with them is treasonous and un-American and expects total loyalty, even over stupid things, is certainly topical 🙂 

I continue to think this show would be better if they made it only half an hour long. With only half an hour, you can focus on the bare bones of the story or the satire, but if its longer, you start to wonder about logistics and plot details, and that just kills a speculative fiction story that is supposed to just be creepy or making some larger metaphorical point. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by tennisgurl

[LoneHaranguer]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I do find the idea of a child president, who screams and whines when they dont get what they want, and deciding that anyone who disagrees with them is treasonous and un-American and expects total loyalty, even over stupid things, is certainly topical 🙂 

Isn't a politically-biased topical story going to be seen as dated relatively quickly (compared with the original TZ)?

[tennisgurl]

19 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

Isn't a politically-biased topical story going to be seen as dated relatively quickly (compared with the original TZ)?

While I do think the episode was making a parallel to current events, I think that the core of the story, people taking style over substance, listening blindly to leaders just because they like how they talk, and accepting easy answers to complicated problems from their leaders, even if they clearly dont know what they're talking about, is a timeless issue of society, regardless of individual politics or time period. So while I didnt love the episode, I do think its right in the TZ wheelhouse. Many of their episodes were about specific issues and events of the time, but were also just stories of the human condition, and thats why they're timeless. 

[topanga]

I found Six Degrees of Freedom suspenseful and well-acted. But will someone explain the ending? Was the crew really on Mars? Was Earth actually The Matrix that was run by aliens? Or was it something else? And how was Jerry still alive?

[Princess Sparkle]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

I found Six Degrees of Freedom suspenseful and well-acted. But will someone explain the ending? Was the crew really on Mars? Was Earth actually The Matrix that was run by aliens? Or was it something else? And how was Jerry still alive?

I believe it was that an alien civilization was running The Great Filter experiment they were discussing in the beginning, and this was the first time it was successful. Jerry was alive because he noticed that this race was watching them (he was right about it being a set-up), so they saved him and we’re going to make actual contact with him, because they were impressed he actually noticed they were watching and figured out what was happening. That’s why they said he was “worthy” at the end. 

[Annber03]

That was a really good twist ending. 

And the scene with the solar flare. Jesus, that was intense. Kept flinching every time there was an explosion, and I'll never be able to hear "California Dreamin'" quite the same way again. Kudos to the guy playing Jerry for delivering that crazy long monologue rant as he did. I agree the acting was excellent all the way around. 

The opening sequence was chilling, too, just 'cause of the thought of getting the news that a nuclear war has broken out. 

Yeah. This one gave me goosebumps. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Annber03

[Melina22]

3 hours ago, topanga said:

I found Six Degrees of Freedom suspenseful and well-acted. But will someone explain the ending? Was the crew really on Mars? Was Earth actually The Matrix that was run by aliens? Or was it something else? And how was Jerry still alive?

At the end the voiceover said something about the crew's eyes deceiving them and about humans needing the near destruction of their planet to reach another planet. So to answer your question, I have no idea!!! 

Did the aliens trigger nuclear war to create this scenario? Or fool the crew into thinking there was a war? And either way, why? The humans were already headed for Mars. Didn't that already qualify them for salvation? 

More specifically, where's the crew and did they survive or not? 

Grrr. This isn't helping my insomnia. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

This episode also would have been better in a 30 minute format.

I thought it was a fake rocket from the get go based on seating positions -- only the commander faced in the direction of flight during the launch.
And there would not have been any gravity in the crew cabins based on the spin of the ship.

I missed Jerry's obsession with "crystallization" as one of the final pieces of evidence to prove it wasn't real -- why was that so important ?

And what was the point of making it look like it was found footage a la Cloverfield ?  With the tape ID number at the start and odd intercut shots of old NASA missions.

[cdnalor]

8 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

This episode also would have been better in a 30 minute format.

I think this episode merited the hour runtime to build tension and convey the boredom and frustration of the long flight time.  Maybe it could be done in a half-hour, but I don't know if the ending would have the same punch.

The spaceship set looked amazing and expensive but I wonder how much might have been green screen.  The ship seemed too small when seen at the end to have so much interior space, though.

I also think the ending was a bit ambiguous as to whether it was a simulation or whether the aliens were just observing (except when they scooped up whats-his-name from the airlock).  If a nuclear war actually happened, can the aliens really say the Great Filter test was passed if the Earth destroyed itself, despite the ship reaching Mars?  First contact with a devastated civilization seems pointless.

[benteen]

Now that was an improvement.

It's not a perfect episode to be sure and the ending was a little confusing.  My impression was is that everything happened and the aliens were just observing what was happening.  I hope that's the case because I'm not big on the whole simulation thing.  I assume Pierson was saved my alien technology.

Anyway, I thought it was a good episode and I enjoyed.  The opening scene was excellent.  Very well-done and it built up suspense.  Plus, it took some old themes/plots from the Twilight Zone.  The threat of nuclear war always hung over the series and many of the episodes.  Plus, the show did a number of space episodes.  I always look forward to a Twilight Zone space episode.

I thought the acting was good and I like that the crew, as a unit, didn't completely fall apart.  At least they'll be getting their second chance.  Although it took the destruction of their civilization to do it.

I was also wondering why they didn't have some kind of entertainment...movies, TV, books, music (what was up with no music) on the ship for such a long voyage.  The commander throwing a fit over two of the crewmembers having sex...don't they have better birth control in this era?

They mention The Great Filter...did they also mention the Fermi Paradox as well?  I've read about that theory recently, which speculates the various reasons why we haven't met any of lifeform or if there is other intelligent life in the galaxy.  It's fascinating.

The length of the episode.  While I do think some scenes could have been tightend up and that the show still have a problem with episode length, I thought this episode ended too soon.  It really did not feel like it was 54 minutes long.

Good episode.  Promising.  We'll see how the rest of the back half of the season goes.  Rhea Seehorn from Better Call Saul is on next week's episode.  She's fantastic on that show so that is a good reason alone to watch next week's episode.

Edited May 3, 2019 by benteen

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, benteen said:

Rhea Seehorn from Better Call Saul is on next week's episode.  She's fantastic on that show so that is a good reason alone to watch next week's episode.

Honestly, whatever other critiques one may have of this revival in general, I've been really impressed with all the actors thus far. They've all been top notch. And for me, this is my first time seeing a lot of them as well (I've heard of many of them, just haven't seen their work), so it's neat to get introduced to them in this kind of setting. And the few I have seen outside of this show, like Jessica Williams, it's cool to see them in something different. 

[ursula]

I've watched this episode 3 times now. Yeah, it was that good. 

[Starchild]

Good episode, but could have been told in half the time.

[tennisgurl]

Now that was an excellent episode! I think more than any of the previous episodes, it used its longer run time to good effect, ramping up the tension, grief, and boredom of the crew, and created a lot of great tension throughout. It also felt very in the spirit of the original show, but with a modern feel as well. 

The ending was not one I saw coming, as I suspected it was a simulation as well. And it might have been, just it wasent NASA or whoever running it, it was aliens. My two theories for what the ending meant are that it really was fake, none of that really happened and Earth is fine, and the aliens were just testing the astronauts to see if they could all continue to work together and finish the mission, even in extreme circumstances, and since they did, they want to reveal themselves to humanity, which has now proven itself, and will help the Earth out with their problems. Or, all of that really did happen, and the aliens were just watching, and when the crew completed the mission without turning on each other or giving up, they decided to reveal themselves to them and help them built a new civilization on Mars. Or something, I am really not sure honestly. Still, it was good ambiguity, not confusing ambiguity like in some episodes this season. 

I liked all of the actors playing the crew, they all did really well, and I was glad they didnt fall apart and stuck with each other, even when it got tough. I kind of kept expecting them to turn on each other or go space crazy (as happens in a lot of plots like this) and they never really did. Well, except maybe Jerry, who may or may not have been right all along, and he didnt so much turn against the crew as he became obsessed with a theory that seemingly killed him, except not really. 

The ship itself looked really good, if rather small for the kind of mission it was. Also, wouldn't they have brought some movies, books, games, etc. up with them even when they thought it would just be a normal launch? Thats what real astronauts do on the international space station and other space trips. Also, so we can get to Mars, but we cant get condom or the pill to work?

[benteen]

According to its wiki page, this week's episode is based on a 1977 short story called "The Screwfly Solution."  It was written by a woman named Raccoona Sheldon, a pen name for American psychologist Alice Sheldon, better known as sci-fi writer James Tiptree Jr.  Looking at her Wikipedia page, to say she had an interesting life would be an understatement.

Edited May 8, 2019 by benteen

[Annber03]

Ooh, thanks for the info. Just read up on her-very interesting woman, indeed! May have to check out her works at some point, including the story that inspires this week's episode. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So, I just binged the first 6 eps.....

I may be standing in a very small group, or even just a group of one, but who thought it was a good idea to turn down the volume of the opening notes of the title sequence??  Crank that bitch up!   I loved that part of the original series, that loud 'doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo' coming at me.  I'm entering the TZ, make me feel the experience.

The Comedian, A Traveler, and The Wunderkind went on much too long - too much meandering filler.  Replay and Six Degrees of Freedom could have stood to have been trimmed & pruned up a bit, to tighten up the story and sense of tension.

SDoF was by far the best of the bunch (so far), but Nightmare at 30,000 Feet and parts of Replay & A Traveler felt mostly worthy of the TZ name brand.

Someone mentioned it above, and I think I agree in that maybe it was that the original series was in B&W as to help add to the sense of eeriness and creep-factor atmosphere to most - if not all - of the original episodes, but these new incarnations have felt severely lacking in any of it.  They could have created a new series and called it whatever, but (as of yet) I am still waiting to feel like I'm watching something worthy of being called a TZ episode.  SDoF comes closest, but it wasn't fully consistent.

I'll watch because its labeled The Twilight Zone, but I've been quite underwhelmed with all the output up to this point (pre-May 8 eppy [S1E7]).

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

On 5/3/2019 at 8:58 AM, benteen said:

The commander throwing a fit over two of the crewmembers having sex...don't they have better birth control in this era?

There's that, of course, but the bigger problem for me was how unrealistic it was to be expected that a 'coed' crew - with a mission duration of (at least) half a decade - wouldn't seek out one of the most primal acts of erasing tension, stress, and boredom between each other.

I know they kept going on and on about how they were a family, but after so long, "mother", "sister" or "brother" are going to be looking good in a sexual way.  Its just plain human nature.

[ottoDbusdriver]

This was an interesting premise, but then it kind of fell off the rails quickly.

Was it all just a military experiment ?  If the meteors were in fact a placebo -- then how come all the drinking water was red ? 
They even made it look like the water in the harbor was red (when Dylan fell in).  But then it turns out, per Cole, it was just a matter of will not to turn violent.  That doesn't really make any sense either.

The biggest WTF was when Dylan showed up at the dock -- how did he even know about that dock where the boat was docked, let alone that Annie would be there ? 
And why was the military showing up so quickly, again also showing up at the harbor when Annie was there ?  Unless the military organized it.

The show made it look like only a day or so had progressed since the meteors had impacted, but things escalated really quickly.  And why did so many men insist on carrying or chaining the meteorites to themselves ?  How would they even know to do that ?  Did the meteorites tell them to do it ?

I was even more surprised by the news report on the TV in the Army tent -- it made it look like there had only been some car accidents, as opposed to the violent free-for-all that was shown including numerous murders.  Or was that just the Army covering things up ?



 

[Was-MArsenault]

On 4/26/2019 at 6:27 PM, Maximum Taco said:

Ugh, "The Wunderkind" was just awful. 

First of all, you went to the trouble to cast John Larroquette, and you use him in one scene? ONE SCENE?! What the damn hell Twilight Zone? What the actual damn hell? I really hope there was another episode starring John Larroquette and they were like "Hey John, wanna be in another one? We only need one scene" cause otherwise that is a waste and a shame.   

Secondly the development of Oliver was all over the place. So he's smart enough to realize that schmaltz sells, and smart enough to use the death of his dog to manipulate Raff, but also dumb enough to not realize how bodied he's gonna get in a debate which he didn't prepare for? And he's smart enough to threaten video game companies with levies, but dumb enough to not realize how congress works? Come on man. I realize what they are trying to do, with the current child who occupies the White House in real life having a woeful understanding about how the Presidency cannot control the Judicial or Legislative branches, but at a certain point we reach into a too silly place. And even that man-child had a plan for debating, he didn't just go in there and cry for his mom.   

Thirdly, they never really go into how this kid gets what he wants. 

One second his parents are demanding he see his doctor, the next his mother is refusing to step in as he enforces a country wide ban on "old doctors"? I mean come on, you can't flip the script like that without showing why she has a change of heart and is suddenly ok with a fellow 6th grader overseeing her son's medical care. I mean demanding video games for everyone, ok, that's not gonna change the world, and would probably make a lot of people like the kid. But immediately nullifying the health care system (and yes I see the parallel, but there was a more plausible way to go about it) and having everyone just ok with it? Again even the current commander in chief is coming under fire for his lack of plan when it comes to health care. 

I'm usually on board for a trip through the Twilight Zone and am willing to suspend disbelief, this one asked too much of me. 

Was John Larroquette in the episode a lot or no?

[Maximum Taco]

35 minutes ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Was John Larroquette in the episode a lot or no?

He was in one scene and had like 2-3 lines. 

IT. WAS. A. CRIME. 

[Was-MArsenault]

54 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

He was in one scene and had like 2-3 lines. 

IT. WAS. A. CRIME. 

Thank you. I wish I could’ve seen this for myself because I'm a fan of him and his work, but don’t have CBS All Access unfortunately.

[cdnalor]

"Not All Men"

Well, that was about as subtle as a frying pan to the face.

Anyone know who played the kid brother?  He reminds me of the actor who plays Carl on Shameless except taller.

Ah, found him.  He plays Andy Strucker on "The Gifted".

Edited May 10, 2019 by cdnalor

[Annber03]

15 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

.Was it all just a military experiment ?  If the meteors were in fact a placebo -- then how come all the drinking water was red ? 
They even made it look like the water in the harbor was red (when Dylan fell in).  But then it turns out, per Cole, it was just a matter of will not to turn violent.  That doesn't really make any sense either.

Maybe the drinking water turning red was a trick, to further lend credence to the "the meteorites are causing this" belief? Throw them off, and all that?

On the one hand, I agree that the "I just chose not to turn" ending felt a bit anti-climactic, but on the other hand, it fits when you consider how men, and society at large, try and blame their violent actions on all sorts of things, when really, it's more that they just chose to be assholes. 

Quote

The biggest WTF was when Dylan showed up at the dock -- how did he even know about that dock where the boat was docked, let alone that Annie would be there ? 

I thought that since he was just wandering around at random the way everyone else was, it was more that he just happened to stumble upon her. If it was intentional, however...maybe he was tracking her somehow? If he was, would've been good to show that somehow. 

Quote

I was even more surprised by the news report on the TV in the Army tent -- it made it look like there had only been some car accidents, as opposed to the violent free-for-all that was shown including numerous murders.  Or was that just the Army covering things up ?

They did mention a mass shooting on the news, too (and I like that they put something like that in, because it ties really well into the overall message of the episode), so I think that we just caught a snippet of the long list of crimes that were being committed. I do like the idea of a cover-up, too, though. I can see that. 

Mike had a total Jack Nicholson in The Shining look going on while he was standing in the kitchen yelling at Martha and Annie. And I also like how they used "Hello" in this episode, because seriously, the video for that song is weird and I could totally see it being criticized if it came out today. 

Also, I think it would've been fun if Vera Farmiga could've been in this episode, too, as Martha :p. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Annber03

[ottoDbusdriver]

9 minutes ago, cdnalor said:

Anyone know who played the kid brother?  He reminds me of the actor who plays Carl on Shameless except taller.

The younger brother does look like Carl from Shameless -- he was played by Percy Hynes White, who is currently working in the tv show 'The Gifted'.
 

2 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Also, I think it would've been fun if Vera Farmiga could've been in this episode, too, as Martha :p. 

I didn't know Vera Farmiga had a sister, but they do look alike.

[Maximum Taco]

11 hours ago, cdnalor said:

"Not All Men"

Well, that was about as subtle as a frying pan to the face.

I know right. 

It seems like every 30 seconds this new Twilight Zone is nudging me in the ribs and says "You see? You see what I did there? No you didn't? Ok NOW do you see what I'm saying?"

The Twilight Zone has always been about social commentary, but it seems like this new writing team is having trouble between hitting their mark and also crafting a story that doesn't make it super obvious what's going on. 

It feels like they need more involvement from Jordan Peele. These Twilight Zones seem like they are trying to recreate the mood of Get Out and Us and it's just overshooting the mark and falling right on it's face. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Yeah this one had a strong Us vibe but I didn't mind. If I'd never seen Us the minor similarities wouldn't have fazed me at all.

I thought the idea that guys could choose not to be affected by the stones was a bit of a cop out though. To me that was like saying they could chug a bottle a some kind of alcohol or consume copious amounts of drugs and then choose not to be affected by it.

[marny]

17 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Yeah this one had a strong Us vibe but I didn't mind. If I'd never seen Us the minor similarities wouldn't have fazed me at all.

I thought the idea that guys could choose not to be affected by the stones was a bit of a cop out though. To me that was like saying they could chug a bottle a some kind of alcohol or consume copious amounts of drugs and then choose not to be affected by it.

I think it was more like saying a dude can chug a bottle of alcohol and choose to rape a woman or he can chug a bottle of alcohol and choose not to rape a woman. But if he does do it, he'll probably blame the alcohol.

Edited May 12, 2019 by marny

[IWantCandy71]

I want to try this, will have to watch on YT though as I already subscribe to Hulu and Netflix and barely watch those. I don't really want to subscribe to something just for one show. I don't think I would watch anything else.

[CarpeFelis]

On 5/11/2019 at 9:36 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Yeah this one had a strong Us vibe but I didn't mind. If I'd never seen Us the minor similarities wouldn't have fazed me at all.

I thought the idea that guys could choose not to be affected by the stones was a bit of a cop out though. To me that was like saying they could chug a bottle a some kind of alcohol or consume copious amounts of drugs and then choose not to be affected by it.

The only way that made ANY sense to me at all was that the brother knew it was the meteorites having the effect. Nobody else listened to the women saying that’s what was causing it. It seemed like they neither knew nor cared that there was something wrong with then.

[tennisgurl]

It sure is weird seeing Andy from The Gifted as the one guy not going crazy!

This episode did use its hour long running time well, taking lots of turns from romance to comedy to horror as the episode went on, and they did a good job building tension, but the actual story felt only half finished. I mean, the rocks are placebos and guys can just "choose" to not be awful? Seems like a bit of an easy solution to systemic issues of toxic masculinity and the patriarchy, but I can at least see what they were going for. I just feel like it could have been explored more, and like with many of these episodes, the longer running time means I have to ask for logistical questions than I would for a short supernatural morality tale.  

Men who do awful things will so often try to make excuses* or blame other things or people for their own awful behavior. I lost my job, so now its my right to hate immigrants! She broke up with me, so I had to shoot her! Its in a lot of the mass shooter or domestic abuser manifestos you read, and I can see how the rocks served as a metaphor for that. But its still possible for men to choose not to indulge, even with a convenient scapegoat right there. It was the rock/booze/women/society that did this, not me! However, like I said, why some men choose one thing and others choose the other was not really explored, and the greater issues of why men have these issues (societal pressure to conform to masculinity, being told they are entitled to sex after doing certain thing) were not really explored, and I think that hurt the analogy. I think the best examples of the idea working was both when Annie was at that guys house, and she turned him down for sex, and he got threatening, then freaked out, and later the boy her nephew was kissing started getting pushy and angry at him for not wanting to go further, and then started to lose it. I think that worked as a look at men who think that at a certain point they are "owed" something from their partner, and get pushy and mean when they are asked to stop. 

I think they need to get Jordan involved in the writing or idea work more, as I know he can do these kinds of stories with a lot more subtlety and feeling more fully complete. 

*Not that women dont do awful things and make dumb excuses as well, and thats just as bad as when men do it. I never like the "men are all evil abusers and women are helpless victims until they shoot their abuser or something" kinds of narratives, but this one did seem to be exploring something more specific. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

'Point of Origin' was just ..... odd.   

Despite the story they were peddling -- pilgrims/illegal immigrants from an alternate dimension being tracked down by the gov't -- a lot of the story made no sense at all.  It's like the writers were consistently high while writing the episode.

Wouldn't Eve's twin daughters also be judged as invaders/pilgrims ?

Why did an ice cream truck route include a prison and a suburban neighborhood -- multiple times a day.
And considering it was winter time, why was an ice cream truck on a route at all ?

What was with Otto ?  He was panhandling for cash in the parking garage -- AND -- working at a prison, providing assistance to an internal resistance.
And what was with that weird advice he gave Eve about only you can hear the leader and she will "appear" to be speaking English.

James Frain was as good as always, but even he couldn't save this episode.

All the civilians dressed like it was the 50s/60s, yet they had modern tech like smartphones and GrubHub.

When Eve was remembering her "dreams" about the post-nuclear apocalypse, I guess that was the Earth in the other dimension.    Or maybe just a mad fever dream, who knows ?  Maybe those "memories" were implants ?  But if those were real memories, why were the pilgrims/immigrants from another dimension stripped of their prior memories when they got to this Earth ? How did the local authorities even find out about them ?  How did they manage to go from one dimension to the other ?  Soft spots in the fabric of space-time, like the TV show 'Fringe' ?

Whenever they mentioned that the skies were gray in the other dimension, I figured that was just Eve doing some California Dreaming -- because that's where all the leaves are brown .... </sarcasm>

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Wouldn't Eve's twin daughters also be judged as invaders/pilgrims ?

They may have investigated that when the entire family was being held at that place. If the kids were born and raised on that planet, then they would've been legal citizens and thus no problem. 

Quote

Why did an ice cream truck route include a prison and a suburban neighborhood -- multiple times a day.
And considering it was winter time, why was an ice cream truck on a route at all ?

I was wondering about that ice cream truck, too. There was a shot of a couple of the guards at the compound eating ice cream cones while Eve and Ana snuck away, so taking that into account, given all the tactics used on Eve to control and open up her mind and memories, maybe the ice cream truck was part of those mind control tactics as well? That would explain Ana's hesitation in wanting to go with Eve when the truck pulled up to take them back home, and we all know how people respond when they hear the music from an ice cream truck nearby. It's a very easy lure. 

Quote

What was with Otto ?  He was panhandling for cash in the parking garage -- AND -- working at a prison, providing assistance to an internal resistance.
And what was with that weird advice he gave Eve about only you can hear the leader and she will "appear" to be speaking English.

I'm thinking that was a blending of both worlds situation happening there-in one universe, Otto was a simple panhandler, in another, he's leading a charge,. Perhaps her seeing him panhandling at the start was an early sign that Eve's memories would eventually be coming back, since her problems started well before she was being held captive and she mentioned to her husband that she'd been having those nightmares for some time. 

There were some really unsettling scenes in this episode. The moment when Eve's husband changed back to the creepy guy interrogating her actually made my stomach drop a little. That was creepy. As was that bizarre-looking mask she was being forced to wear. And the ending, with her being led away and crying out, got to me. 

As for the flashes of memories of her old life that we kept seeing, on the one hand, I kinda like how they were vague, because it added to the haunting nature of whatever happened in her old world, but on the other hand, I was curious to know a little more about that story, too. 

I also liked the quieter, more heartbreaking moments in this episode. It was interesting to see Eve's facial expressions as she listened to her friends' rather unsympathetic comments about immigrants, and I really liked the moment with Ana calling Eve out for not bothering to learn more about her family when she'd taken so much time getting to know Eve's children. I like how they showed Eve thinking she saw and treated Ana as an equal, only for a lot of her actions to prove otherwise. 

Yeah. Despite some of the story issues, I liked this one. There's some moments in here that are really gonna stick with me for a while. 

Edited May 17, 2019 by Annber03

[cdnalor]

On 5/16/2019 at 9:58 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Despite the story they were peddling -- pilgrims/illegal immigrants from an alternate dimension being tracked down by the gov't -- a lot of the story made no sense at all.  It's like the writers were consistently high while writing the episode.

It seems more like the writers are high schoolers who have recently become aware of social justice and want everyone to know it.  Unlike the original series, they don't try to convey their message through allegory, they just scream it into your face for forty minutes.

So far, much of this season has been a clumsy, heavy-handed imitation of the original show and not even as good as the previous revivals.

[ottoDbusdriver]

16 hours ago, cdnalor said:

It seems more like the writers are high schoolers who have recently become aware of social justice and want everyone to know it.  Unlike the original series, they don't try to convey their message through allegory, they just scream it into your face for forty minutes.

So far, much of this season has been a clumsy, heavy-handed imitation of the original show and not even as good as the previous revivals.

That's the thing -- the acting has been really good, the casting has been top notch, but the stories just haven't been up to par and the episodes have been way too long in several cases.

[CarpeFelis]

I’m assuming, although the episode didn’t actually say so, that the dimension she came from was actually our own in some post-apocalyptic future. It certainly seemed implied given the ‘50s wardrobes and attitudes combined with modern tech.

[Was-MArsenault]

Does anyone have footage of John Larroquette's appearance on the show? I don't have CBS All Access, and would really like to see his scenes.

[tennisgurl]

I think, like a lot of these episodes, this episode had a lot of really good ideas, moments, and performances, but the full idea never quite fully landed. 

I think some of the vagueness of it made it creepier and more memorable for me, like never really giving answers as to what happened to the dimension/planet/whatever the pilgrims came from, why people are dressed like its the 50s but have modern tech and social norms are all over the place, how Eve came here and why her memories are gone, what was up with the singer/janitor who was everywhere, etc so that actually worked for me, and I really felt awful for poor Eve and her frantic struggle to get home. 

I think the part that was actually most interesting to me was the contrast between Eve and Anna, and how Anna was the person who someone would stereotype as an illegal immigrant (Hispanic, house keeper) while Eve would certainly never be profiled as an illegal (white, upper class) and how unprepared Eve was for all of this, while Anna almost seemed ready, and how Eve was forced to confront her own biases and treatment of Anna, and how they ended up in the same place. I think there is an interesting story to be told about how people can be blind to the suffering of others until their forced to confront it personally. I think if the episode had focused more on that aspect, it would have been a bit more complete.