All Past Seasons of the Late Lamented Show

[sleepyjean]

Anyone remember Lacey Wilcockson, former St. Louis Rams Cheerleader, and DCC finalist from 2017 and 2019? I think she was the one known for having buff arms.

She was just chosen as a rookie for the Kansas City Chiefs Cheerleaders. 7 years since her time on the Rams, she's still got it!

Interesting fact, she is reuniting with Joi Smith who was a DCC finalist in 2016 and 2017.

[Holly85]

19 minutes ago, sleepyjean said:

Anyone remember Lacey Wilcockson, former St. Louis Rams Cheerleader, and DCC finalist from 2017 and 2019? I think she was the one known for having buff arms.

She was just chosen as a rookie for the Kansas City Chiefs Cheerleaders. 7 years since her time on the Rams, she's still got it!

Interesting fact, she is reuniting with Joi Smith who was a DCC finalist in 2016 and 2017.

Former tcc Lindsay was a rookie on the chiefs last season but she was cut this season in finals 

[vanillagum]

 

1 hour ago, sleepyjean said:

Anyone remember Lacey Wilcockson, former St. Louis Rams Cheerleader, and DCC finalist from 2017 and 2019? I think she was the one known for having buff arms.

She was just chosen as a rookie for the Kansas City Chiefs Cheerleaders. 7 years since her time on the Rams, she's still got it!

Interesting fact, she is reuniting with Joi Smith who was a DCC finalist in 2016 and 2017.

omg love this for her. i liked her a lot and would've loved to see her in TCC. as an stl native, also, i have to root for her haha. i hated how they called her too muscular smh

am i going crazy or is pluto FINALLY showing seasons after 12?!

looks like 14 is on rn omg

[kalibean]

 

3 hours ago, sleepyjean said:

Anyone remember Lacey Wilcockson, former St. Louis Rams Cheerleader, and DCC finalist from 2017 and 2019? I think she was the one known for having buff arms.

She was just chosen as a rookie for the Kansas City Chiefs Cheerleaders. 7 years since her time on the Rams, she's still got it!

Interesting fact, she is reuniting with Joi Smith who was a DCC finalist in 2016 and 2017.

 

AHHHHHH just came here to post this!!  I'm a big Chiefs fan, follow their squad on instagram.  I'm watching the video fly through and I was like OMG LACEY.  LACEY!!!  So happy for her.  I clicked in the comments to see if they had a list so I could confirm, and Hannah had tagged her in a congrats.  Love it!

Here is Lacey's instagram post:  https://www.instagram.com/p/CcRdNJIsIiB/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by kalibean
ETA to delete a buried quote from 1000 years ago that decided to live on in this post.

[MrsEVH]

Former TCC Lindsey was a KC Chiefs cheerleader last season (2021-22). I don't see her on the new team. I wonder if she didn't make it back or decided not to audition again?   

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTxxDflLYmd/

[88Keys]

3 hours ago, vanillagum said:

 

omg love this for her. i liked her a lot and would've loved to see her in TCC. as an stl native, also, i have to root for her haha. i hated how they called her too muscular smh

am i going crazy or is pluto FINALLY showing seasons after 12?!

looks like 14 is on rn omg

Yes!  I've only ever watched on Pluto, so I turned it on and was like "who are these people?" 

[ShutterbugCAM]

3 hours ago, vanillagum said:

 

omg love this for her. i liked her a lot and would've loved to see her in TCC. as an stl native, also, i have to root for her haha. i hated how they called her too muscular smh

am i going crazy or is pluto FINALLY showing seasons after 12?!

looks like 14 is on rn omg

She seemed like she would have been a good DCC. Maybe she'd have a better chance of making it now, since it seems they're a little less harsh on the builds of the girls, but I'm still happy she got on with The Chiefs. Congrats to her!

It's about time they're showing more seasons. I would be blown away if Season 15 came on LOL

[ATLGirl]

4 hours ago, vanillagum said:

 

omg love this for her. i liked her a lot and would've loved to see her in TCC. as an stl native, also, i have to root for her haha. i hated how they called her too muscular smh

am i going crazy or is pluto FINALLY showing seasons after 12?!

looks like 14 is on rn omg

Thank you for posting about Pluto showing Season 14 just now because I thought I was LOSING MY MIND!!!🤣🤣🤣

[JarlenaFan2024]

17 minutes ago, ATLGirl said:

Thank you for posting about Pluto showing Season 14 just now because I thought I was LOSING MY MIND!!!🤣🤣🤣

I was just coming here to comment on this!! So season 14 is where they're at now?  Where had it previously stopped?

[kacesq]

4 hours ago, BluegrassDCCFan said:

I was just coming here to comment on this!! So season 14 is where they're at now?  Where had it previously stopped?

Season 12 is where they used to stop. This is so exciting lol. 

[DocBrown]

11 hours ago, sleepyjean said:

Anyone remember Lacey Wilcockson, former St. Louis Rams Cheerleader, and DCC finalist from 2017 and 2019? I think she was the one known for having buff arms.

She was just chosen as a rookie for the Kansas City Chiefs Cheerleaders. 7 years since her time on the Rams, she's still got it!

Interesting fact, she is reuniting with Joi Smith who was a DCC finalist in 2016 and 2017.

Oh yay! I really liked Lacey - good for her. 

[MrsEVH]

"Interesting fact, she is reuniting with Joi Smith who was a DCC finalist in 2016 and 2017."

Joi is going into her 4th season with the KC Chiefs cheerleaders.

[tarheel220]

As glad as I am that Pluto has added more seasons, im a bit tired already of them running 13, 14 and 15 over and over. Go back to the regular rotation please.

[WenD08]

I turned the channel on fully expecting to see Season 3 or 4.  I was like, What in the DCC is this?!  So excited for the newer background noise😁

[vanillagum]

2 hours ago, tarheel220 said:

As glad as I am that Pluto has added more seasons, im a bit tired already of them running 13, 14 and 15 over and over. Go back to the regular rotation please.

they're showing 15 now too? and are they not running the older seasons? i assumed they'd just start the rotation over...uhh i don't like this

[ShutterbugCAM]

1 hour ago, vanillagum said:

they're showing 15 now too? and are they not running the older seasons? i assumed they'd just start the rotation over...uhh i don't like this

I didn't see Season 15. Seems like it was 13, then 14, then 13 again, now 10! This random order is ridiculous. I'd take a steady rotation of 1-14. That'd be good enough for me.

[JarlenaFan2024]

4 hours ago, ShutterbugCAM said:

I didn't see Season 15. Seems like it was 13, then 14, then 13 again, now 10! This random order is ridiculous. I'd take a steady rotation of 1-14. That'd be good enough for me.

They're showing the seasons out of order now....grrrrr

[vanillagum]

8 hours ago, ShutterbugCAM said:

I didn't see Season 15. Seems like it was 13, then 14, then 13 again, now 10! This random order is ridiculous. I'd take a steady rotation of 1-14. That'd be good enough for me.

and looks like 8 is on now LOL

Edited April 14, 2022 by vanillagum

[tarheel220]

10 hours ago, ShutterbugCAM said:

I didn't see Season 15. Seems like it was 13, then 14, then 13 again, now 10! This random order is ridiculous. I'd take a steady rotation of 1-14. That'd be good enough for me.

I was wrong about 15, it is stopping at 14 and yeah, the random order is crazy right now.  They need to get it back in regular order.

[dariafan]

17 hours ago, tarheel220 said:

As glad as I am that Pluto has added more seasons, im a bit tired already of them running 13, 14 and 15 over and over. Go back to the regular rotation please.

With my work schedule I keep hitting season 12 !!!

[vanillagum]

58 minutes ago, dariafan said:

With my work schedule I keep hitting season 12 !!!

I catch season 7 more than ANYTHING else and it drives me crazy

I can't tell if I disliked it this much before or if it's because I'm so sick of seeing it lmao

[Bindilou]

They're all over the place. I was watching season 2 the other day, expecting 3 to be next, and it was 14. Then 13. Then 10. Then 9. Then 1. What the heck? Cool that they're adding the more recent seasons, but why out of order?

2 hours ago, vanillagum said:

I catch season 7 more than ANYTHING else and it drives me crazy

I can't tell if I disliked it this much before or if it's because I'm so sick of seeing it lmao

I HATE that season!

[vanillagum]

1 hour ago, Bindilou said:

I HATE that season!

i'm curious, why? because same

for one, i thought it went on wayyyy too long. i know some people liked the stuff after but i thought it just DRAGGED

[DocBrown]

Yes - I’m sure they never used to be this out of order on Pluto? 
I had it on while I was doing my dinner and it was the last ep of season 9 - tuned in after I finished and it was season 1?! 
 

I have to say, I’m really not familiar with seasons 1-2 but I just wasn’t expecting it after having just seen season 9, that was a big surprise! 

[ShutterbugCAM]

Turned on Pluto just a bit ago and saw that the last episode of Season 1 is on right now, and Season 2 is about to start. Hopefully that means they've straightened out that order permanently.

[tteek74]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:59 AM, ByTor said:

I'm not at all saying this was Kaime's attitude, but I'd understand anyone in her situation thinking "they admitted they made a mistake cutting me, I'm in!" But to think you'd be ok putting in zero effort? That's pretty much telling the organization "you were right the 1st time to cut me."

Speaking of cringe moments on the show. Watching season 1 on Pluto now, and Jay was doing a body fat thing. I don't remember Jay being that awful! He insults Dinesha's stomach, he tells Brooke she has 23 lbs of fat to lose...and if his tone with them wasn't harsh enough, he then goes on to say "you may feel good about yourselves, but..." Just, wow, beyond mean.

 

 

Was that the one when he told them to look to the right , look to the left and start running! So rude! Honestly, none of those girls were big. Even Dinesha was a tall, large frame girl. She weighed 150, but I bet she was 5’10, 5’11. I’m 5’8 and weigh 145, and usually people don’t think I weigh that.

weight is varied. I have long legs, and all mine is in boobs and booty, so I look smaller. I’ve never understood the being a certain height/weight? If I get under 130, I’d look like a skeleton, but I’m betting that’s a DCC weight. I’d never achieve that in a healthy way even 20 years ago. 
 

when I look at DCCs like Claire, Maddie, Brooke, s9 Courtney, Vivian (I know she only tcc)Kandi H., they were all beautiful and curvy. Claire’s body is to die for. I think that stupid TV is what made the skinny-almost skeletal look more popular. I prefer the curvier DCCs.

 

[EricaShadows]

1 hour ago, tteek74 said:

Was that the one when he told them to look to the right , look to the left and start running! So rude! Honestly, none of those girls were big. Even Dinesha was a tall, large frame girl. She weighed 150, but I bet she was 5’10, 5’11. I’m 5’8 and weigh 145, and usually people don’t think I weigh that.

weight is varied. I have long legs, and all mine is in boobs and booty, so I look smaller. I’ve never understood the being a certain height/weight? If I get under 130, I’d look like a skeleton, but I’m betting that’s a DCC weight. I’d never achieve that in a healthy way even 20 years ago. 
 

when I look at DCCs like Claire, Maddie, Brooke, s9 Courtney, Vivian (I know she only tcc)Kandi H., they were all beautiful and curvy. Claire’s body is to die for. I think that stupid TV is what made the skinny-almost skeletal look more popular. I prefer the curvier DCCs.

Kelli knows absolutely NOTHING about making sure a girl is not only healthy but maintains a healthy weight.  We've heard from girls who said that they, and others, have tried everything (including drugs that may be less then legal) to lose weight to the point that a few have ended up in the hospital because of it.  We've even heard that Kelli knows about it to a degree and is okay with it as long as she has plausible deniability if questioned.

In uniform fittings, Kelli talks a good game about how each girl has a unique body that needs to have a "custom-fit" uniform but then turns around and says that "Oh, you're the same height as so-and-so so you need to weigh the same" without taking into account how they're built among other things.

[Bindilou]

10 hours ago, vanillagum said:

i'm curious, why? because same

for one, i thought it went on wayyyy too long. i know some people liked the stuff after but i thought it just DRAGGED

Well, first it feels like they did the normal 8 episodes and then found out they needed 3 more hours of material for 11 episodes. It just dragged on. Maybe if they had edited it differently. I don't know. It was too much and dragged on. 

11 hours ago, Bindilou said:

They're all over the place. I was watching season 2 the other day, expecting 3 to be next, and it was 14. Then 13. Then 10. Then 9. Then 1. What the heck? Cool that they're adding the more recent seasons, but why out of order?

I HATE that season!

So I was just watching season 3 on Pluto. It went to a commercial and was supposed to come back and go to first meeting and instead it went to first meeting for season 11!

[JarlenaFan2024]

 

23 minutes ago, Bindilou said:

Well, first it feels like they did the normal 8 episodes and then found out they needed 3 more hours of material for 11 episodes. It just dragged on. Maybe if they had edited it differently. I don't know. It was too much and dragged on. 

So I was just watching season 3 on Pluto. It went to a commercial and was supposed to come back and go to first meeting and instead it went to first meeting for season 11!

Same here

Edited April 15, 2022 by BluegrassDCCFan

[vanillagum]

8 hours ago, EricaShadows said:

Kelli knows absolutely NOTHING about making sure a girl is not only healthy but maintains a healthy weight.  We've heard from girls who said that they, and others, have tried everything (including drugs that may be less then legal) to lose weight to the point that a few have ended up in the hospital because of it.  We've even heard that Kelli knows about it to a degree and is okay with it as long as she has plausible deniability if questioned.

In uniform fittings, Kelli talks a good game about how each girl has a unique body that needs to have a "custom-fit" uniform but then turns around and says that "Oh, you're the same height as so-and-so so you need to weigh the same" without taking into account how they're built among other things.

It is so unbelievably idiotic to be like, "You're her height so you need to be exactly her weight." What the actual...it's embarrassing, truly. And EXACTLY—blah blah blah custom uniform blah blah blah. Just ignoring the fact height =/= build, body composition, amount of muscle...just embarrassing

So stupid and arbitrary. Vivian's first season in TC made me so mad—she was rock hard muscle, but she wasn't a twig, so they told her she needed to lose exactly 9 pounds to be where other girls her height were. Kelli literally even said, "I can't think of any healthy reason to say lose weight." So you admit it? You admit your standards are ridiculous?

Edited April 15, 2022 by vanillagum

[tarheel220]

4 hours ago, BluegrassDCCFan said:

 

Same here

And now its showing the middle of season 11 where Yukon has her breakdown with Melissa. Someone is not paying attention at Pluto 

[Holly85]

On 4/12/2022 at 10:20 PM, MrsEVH said:

Former TCC Lindsey was a KC Chiefs cheerleader last season (2021-22). I don't see her on the new team. I wonder if she didn't make it back or decided not to audition again?   

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTxxDflLYmd/

She was cut at finals 

[tarheel220]

Ok someone at Pluto is either drunk or off their meds. They just finished part of season 11 AND NOW have jumped to Season 4!

[tarheel220]

I have now watched too many etiquette sessions with Colleen. We were at dinner tonight and I got a small sirloin and grilled shrimp. The shrimp came on the skewer which I used my knife to slide them off of. They also had the tails still on them which I cut off. My husband remarked that I left meat in the tail which I was like yes, but I don’t know how to get it and inside I was thinking “I don’t have a fish fork!”

I was waiting to hear her whistle. 😁

[ByTor]

On 4/12/2022 at 11:05 PM, kalibean said:

OMG LACEY.  LACEY!!!

YES!!!!!!!!!! Yes, Lacey with the "masculine arms" (that would have totally been hidden with the long sleeves). I always liked her, but I EXTRA liked her because it was so cute that her dad brought her flowers.

[ByTor]

On 4/14/2022 at 8:52 PM, tteek74 said:

Honestly, none of those girls were big. Even Dinesha was a tall, large frame girl. She weighed 150, but I bet she was 5’10, 5’11.

If I were that "big"...well...I'd wear outfits clingier than Saran Wrap!!

[EricaShadows]

On 4/14/2022 at 5:52 PM, tteek74 said:

Was that the one when he told them to look to the right , look to the left and start running! So rude! Honestly, none of those girls were big. Even Dinesha was a tall, large frame girl. She weighed 150, but I bet she was 5’10, 5’11. I’m 5’8 and weigh 145, and usually people don’t think I weigh that.

IIRC, she was around 5'11" or 6' so 150 would be a good weight for her and, since she was built a little differently then most of the girls in that she looked to be "bigger boned" then the rest (which IS a thing so an allowance should have been made for her build), she could have lost the few extra pounds she was sporting (which was certainly less then 5) and toned up, she could have been a rock star on the squad. 

However, I think there was certainly more going on then just showing her weight on television and an office visit.  There HAD to be more (and I think it had to have been during the office visit) because most people wouldn't have left for just a brief conversation about their weight.

[scorpio1031]

1 hour ago, EricaShadows said:

IIRC, she was around 5'11" or 6' so 150 would be a good weight for her and, since she was built a little differently then most of the girls in that she looked to be "bigger boned" then the rest (which IS a thing so an allowance should have been made for her build), she could have lost the few extra pounds she was sporting (which was certainly less then 5) and toned up, she could have been a rock star on the squad. 

However, I think there was certainly more going on then just showing her weight on television and an office visit.  There HAD to be more (and I think it had to have been during the office visit) because most people wouldn't have left for just a brief conversation about their weight.

I thought there was a problem with the schedule for her

[Holly85]

6 minutes ago, scorpio1031 said:

I thought there was a problem with the schedule for her

Yup cause kelli made the comment abt we told her to look at the schedule at first meeting and asked if it was a problem 

[MrsEVH]

7 minutes ago, scorpio1031 said:

I thought there was a problem with the schedule for her

Correct. Kelli said she withdrew because of TC taking away time with her child.

[Mardo2044]

Thinking about who retired after the 2015 locker room incident and season concluded?  I am so curious.  I wonder if the recent locker room allegation scandal would explain some retirements that year that I didn’t expect.  I think these were the retirees if my timeline assumptions are correct:  Sydney, Nicole, Katy, Emma, Jordan, Brittney, Veronica, three year vet Jennifer, three year vet Ashley, Abby, Samantha, two year vet Jessica, and Courtney.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Mardo2044
Clarify year

[scorpio1031]

2 hours ago, Mardo2044 said:

Thinking about who retired after the 2015 locker room incident and season concluded?  I am so curious.  I wonder if the recent locker room allegation scandal would explain some retirements that year that I didn’t expect.  I think these were the retirees if my timeline assumptions are correct:  Sydney, Nicole, Katy, Emma, Jordan, Brittney, Veronica, three year vet Jennifer, three year vet Ashley, Abby, Samantha, two year vet Jessica, and Courtney.

It was Season 10, so most of these gals had retired already, and Jennifer was point in season 11.  

[EricaShadows]

9 hours ago, scorpio1031 said:

I thought there was a problem with the schedule for her

 

9 hours ago, Holly85 said:

Yup cause kelli made the comment abt we told her to look at the schedule at first meeting and asked if it was a problem 

 

9 hours ago, MrsEVH said:

Correct. Kelli said she withdrew because of TC taking away time with her child.

That's right.  Now that I look at the whole situation, it just seemed that there was probably more to the whole "you're too heavy at the moment and need to lose weight" conversation, Dinesha went home, thought about it, looked at her child (especially if it was a girl) and thought "What lesson am I teaching her if they don't want me at a healthy weight and possibly harming myself to make the team?" (or something to that effect) and decided to withdraw.

[PamPamPam]

Watching season 12 (think that's right) on Pluto.  Episode where they have the alumni "instruct/advise" rookies.

Cassie and her "not everyone is a happy smiley person and I was the lay down the law one."

Cassie, you were a jerk. Of course the job of DCC is to be look happy and smiley.

You just were allowed to not be happy and smiley. You were allowed to be rude.

You weren't even held to the same dance technique and standards. 

Because you were Judy's daughter. That's it.  That's all you brought.

Also--Dayton didn't have what it takes. Only difference between her and Cassie is Dayton wasn't Judy's daughter.  

 

[LilyD]

On 4/16/2022 at 2:59 AM, tarheel220 said:

I have now watched too many etiquette sessions with Colleen. We were at dinner tonight and I got a small sirloin and grilled shrimp. The shrimp came on the skewer which I used my knife to slide them off of. They also had the tails still on them which I cut off. My husband remarked that I left meat in the tail which I was like yes, but I don’t know how to get it and inside I was thinking “I don’t have a fish fork!”

I was waiting to hear her whistle. 😁

Honestly, until I saw this on the show, I had no idea that Americans apparently have a different formal dining etiquette from Europeans! But having said this, I do think it's a good thing to address etiquette. You'd be amazed how many people know virtually nothing about how to eat properly in a restaurant or when dining with guests. And I'm talking basic stuff here, not formal dining.

Just the other day, my kids were absolutely shocked to see an adult man stuffing his napkin under his collar like a bib! And we saw how people dig into their food when waiters are still bringing plates out to your table. It's rude to start eating when your friends or whomever you're with is still being served/or waiting to be served.

And what I really hate, is this 'pose' where you're hunched forward, eat with just your fork in your hand and keep shoving food into your mouth while your other arm  is safely wrapped around your plate, as if you're protecting your food from others who might try to snatch it away.

I say "Go Colleen!" though please work on your accent, teaching international etiquette with that very heavy Texan accent is hilarious!

[kalibean]

16 minutes ago, LilyD said:

Honestly, until I saw this on the show, I had no idea that Americans apparently have a different formal dining etiquette from Europeans! But having said this, I do think it's a good thing to address etiquette. You'd be amazed how many people know virtually nothing about how to eat properly in a restaurant or when dining with guests. And I'm talking basic stuff here, not formal dining.

Just the other day, my kids were absolutely shocked to see an adult man stuffing his napkin under his collar like a bib! And we saw how people dig into their food when waiters are still bringing plates out to your table. It's rude to start eating when your friends or whomever you're with is still being served/or waiting to be served.

Adding on to this per the lessons I had as a kiddo and teen (southern standards I guess) and my grandma…we were told to wait for hot food while plates are actively being placed. If you’re in a situation where half has hot food, and half (or just one or two) is waiting for the next round of servers, go ahead and start eating.  Like if it’s longer than a brief pause.   And cold food always waits until the last person is served. 

Curious what the DCC coach would say! 
 

 

[EricaShadows]

17 hours ago, PamPamPam said:

Watching season 12 (think that's right) on Pluto.  Episode where they have the alumni "instruct/advise" rookies.

Cassie and her "not everyone is a happy smiley person and I was the lay down the law one."

Cassie, you were a jerk. Of course the job of DCC is to be look happy and smiley.

You just were allowed to not be happy and smiley. You were allowed to be rude.

You weren't even held to the same dance technique and standards. 

Because you were Judy's daughter. That's it.  That's all you brought.

Also--Dayton didn't have what it takes. Only difference between her and Cassie is Dayton wasn't Judy's daughter.  

 

I agree with most of it except Dayton but would add Victoria to it.  If Dayton didn't have what it takes, Victoria certainly didn't.  Only difference was that Victoria and Cassie got the chance to prove themselves while Dayton never did.  But that's just my opinion.

[cherryblossom]

I guess I will have to disagree with PAMPAMPAM who listed bad qualities of Cassie & then said Dayton was the same except she wasn’t Judy’s daughter.  I don’t recall Dayton displaying the traits of Cassie in unsmiling, rude, a who cares attitude towards dancing etc. I thought Dayton was a class act & handled her cut without saying her Mom was a former DCC & worked with K & J.

Edited April 18, 2022 by cherryblossom
Spelling error

[LilyD]

I agree with you @cherryblossom when it comes to a comparison between Dayton and Cassie. Cassie had the rather unfortunate "mean look" and behaved accordingly. When she was smiling it hardly ever was genuine as you could see from her eyes.

Dayton was sweet and from what I could see had little or no mean streak in her at all. She didn't always smile (maybe that was what pampampam meant when comparing them?) But I felt this had more to do with insecurity and sometimes being very focussed to get it right. I was, and still am very sad she never got a chance to shine. She would have been a true asset to the team.

[PamPamPam]

2 hours ago, cherryblossom said:

I guess I will have to disagree with PAMPAMPAM who listed bad qualities of Cassie & then said Dayton was the same except she wasn’t Judy’s daughter.  I don’t recall Dayton displaying the traits of Cassie in unsmiling, rude, a who cares attitude towards dancing etc. I thought Dayton was a class act & handled her cut without saying her Mom was a former DCC & worked with K & J.

I in no way intended to imply Dayton was like Cassie in the "I don't have to smile or do this and that because that's not who I am as a person. I say what I'm thinking no matter what."  When I said Dayton didn't have what it takes, I meant imo she just wasn't the DCC type, stylewise or in out-going personality.  Cassie wasn't the type, both in dance and in personality, either.  Only difference was Cassie got a full pass on it all, imo, because Cassie was Judy's daughter. Dayton otoh did not.