Workin Moms - General Discussion

[greekmom]

Warm, loyal PR executive Kate and her longtime friend, no-nonsense psychiatrist Anne, attend a judgmental mommies' group, where they meet timid IT tech Jenny and blindly optimistic real estate agent Frankie. The four quickly form an unlikely friendship, sharing struggles of urban motherhood in Toronto filled with the chaos of toddlers, tantrums, careers, and identity crises, all while trying to achieve the holy grail: a sense of self. 

[DrSpaceman]

I tried this show and have to say, while its OK, I just don't find it that funny

it has its moments.  It tries, but seems to be one of the shows where it can't figure out if it wants to be a drama or a comedy and tries to take the middle road, thus doing each on a mediocre level and neither particularly well. 

Its not a bad show and its not that I dislike it,  but its just kind of there, nothing special. 

I guess its big in Canada? 

[greekmom]

I actually binged watched all seasons this weekend. 1 & 2 ion Netflix and 3 on CBC website.

I won't discuss Season 3 in case Netflix people come lurking and commenting.

I absolutely loved season 1 and 2.  Kate and Anne are my favourite characters.  Jenny is my least favourite. I'm on the fence about Frankie.  Season 3 Frankie for me is better than 1 & 2.

While I do find that they are pretty well off that they can afford private school and nannies, it's still great seeing Toronto overall and I find the situations interesting. 

Cannot wait for season 4.

[Smacky55]

On 3/24/2019 at 7:41 PM, DrSpaceman said:

I tried this show and have to say, while its OK, I just don't find it that funny

it has its moments.  It tries, but seems to be one of the shows where it can't figure out if it wants to be a drama or a comedy and tries to take the middle road, thus doing each on a mediocre level and neither particularly well. 

Its not a bad show and its not that I dislike it,  but its just kind of there, nothing special. 

I guess its big in Canada? 

I agree with you. It’s just okay. I just finished season 1 and I will watch more when they’re available on Netflix but I don’t absolutely love it. 

It’s nice to see Canada represented in a tv show. And there were mny situations that I could relate to. But there were a lot of things that I can’t relate to. 9 months maternity leave?? I wish. And while there were some money talks every now and then, no one really really seemed to be struggling or at least not talking about it. Not even the couple with the screenwriter husband and the wife who works in a cubicle doing IT. They can’t be making a whole lot of money, but it was never really an issue. I also don’t like how none of these moms were really able to handle work and being a mom. All of them messed up at some point. In the real world, working moms have to suck it up and do our best at work and do our best at home. I know we’re not always successful but you have to try. The last episode of Season 1 where she ran out of a big meeting because her son was sick doesn’t ring true to me. She had been working towards this for so long and had already sacrificed so much. Let your husband and other family handle things for another couple hours while you finish up work, keep you updated via text/phone and then you hop on the first flight you can when you’re done. There’s just no drive to figure out how to make things work in this show, which I think is what drives a lot of us. 

[txhorns79]

On 3/30/2019 at 10:26 PM, Smacky55 said:

All of them messed up at some point. In the real world, working moms have to suck it up and do our best at work and do our best at home. I know we’re not always successful but you have to try. The last episode of Season 1 where she ran out of a big meeting because her son was sick doesn’t ring true to me. She had been working towards this for so long and had already sacrificed so much. Let your husband and other family handle things for another couple hours while you finish up work, keep you updated via text/phone and then you hop on the first flight you can when you’re done. There’s just no drive to figure out how to make things work in this show, which I think is what drives a lot of us. 

I thought that whole storyline was very over the top.  A little subtlety would really have made the story a lot stronger instead of reducing the boss lady to a caricature whose professional success only occurred because she checked out of being a parent, or having Kate blow up her promotion because her child was sick. 

I also didn't love how the show treated postpartum depression.  I felt like the writers were unable to decide whether it should be treated as a joke, or something serious. 

[greekmom]

On 3/30/2019 at 10:26 PM, Smacky55 said:

It’s nice to see Canada represented in a tv show. And there were mny situations that I could relate to. But there were a lot of things that I can’t relate to. 9 months maternity leave?? I wish. 

Canadians get more leave than the States. Up to 63 weeks but most take 52 weeks. 

[DriverB]

S2 will be on Netflix July 25.

[Eeksquire]

I had forgotten that it was dropping yesterday! I watched the first two episodes of S2 last night and I'm so glad to have this show back. It's nice to have something to watch where the narrative tension doesn't come from people being murdered or raped or tortured.

[Nilo]

Just finished Season 2.  I love this show so much.  The last 10 minutes of the last episode? I was in tears...

[Eeksquire]

I just finished the season... how long until Netflix gets the rest? I thought I read somewhere that there are four seasons that have aired in Canada right...? I have GOT to know what happens next!

[nomodrama]

I enjoy this show even though I'm not a huge fan of any of the main 3 women, is that weird. I think I like the dad that joined to moms group more than any of the other characters on the show. 

On 7/28/2019 at 3:46 PM, Nilo said:

Just finished Season 2.  I love this show so much.  The last 10 minutes of the last episode? I was in tears...

Me too, it made me so sad. Then angry, hopefully there is a season 3 so that we can see the outcome.

[txhorns79]

I finished the second season.  I still think the show has issues with tone, i.e. that they couldn't seem to settle on whether Anne's ex's harassment and manipulation of his patients was a joke or something to be taken seriously, but I really do enjoy the series as a whole. 

And I did have a mini-freak out when I realized that Sonia (who is Ian's girlfriend who didn't know if she could continue seeing him because of his child) also plays Rita (the Martha in Commander Waterford's house) on The Handmaid's Tale.  I would never have recognized her if not for her voice. 

[Eeksquire]

Quote

Me too, it made me so sad. Then angry, hopefully there is a season 3 so that we can see the outcome.

I believe that four seasons have already aired in Canada, so it's just a question of whether Netflix will license it - I hope so. I really love this show.

[NJMom]

Season 3 is hitting Netflix 8/ 29!

[Eeksquire]

@NJMom, this is EXCELLENT news! Thanks for sharing!

[debraran]

I just finished season 3 being off, I found it better than the last season for me. I didn't like the camping episode, seemed like a filler, but it was a nice way to pass some of my vacation time.

[txhorns79]

I finished the third season, and I kind of struggle with this show.  It has moments that feel very real, and other moments that are extremely frustrating just in terms of what they are doing with the characters. 

For example, last season they showed Kate acting in a way that was significantly harming her marriage (i.e. she would make promises to him about how she was going to act going forward, then turn around and renege the moment her promise interfered with her professional life), and the season ended with Kate finding out her husband was cheating.  This season, they act like the only thing wrong with the marriage was that Kate's husband cheated and there is zero talk of any role she played in the situation.  I didn't really care about the love triangle cliffhanger they set up between Kate's new business colleague/lover and her husband.  I mean, the woman has two little kids, it's not like she can realistically just jet off to Cabo on a moment's notice for a sex weekend.   

Then there is Jenny.  She tells her new friends that the father of her child is abusive to make up for her own shortcomings, which is monstrous on its own and goes nowhere.  She also essentially embezzles from her own company to provide him with a short term job to help cover his expenses.  Are we supposed to relate to this?

I will say I did like Anne's storyline with Alice.  Even though Anne obviously wins the award for worst parent of the season for nearly killing someone by bringing a loaded gun into her home and not properly securing it, I did appreciate watching her struggle with Alice.   

Overall, I liked the season, but I do feel like things are are very inconsistent both in terms of tone and character development. 

[debraran]

I feel the same way in regards to those characters. I tell myself it isn't supposed to be realistic but then they do hit some things on the head. Kate to me was the one least realistic. She is adored by all and has more action going on than some college kids! I felt the husband's affair came out of nowhere and although that can happen, they wanted her to be the "good" one and him the "bad" one so her actions would seem okay.

Jenny is completely one dimensional and I assume is supposed to be unlikable. What she did to her ex was horrible and I have a feeling it might be part of an upcoming show if they need a filler. The job thing was very unrealistic but again they seem to not know what to do with her.

I like Anne's story the most and wish they showed more with her daughter. I had a feeling a shoe was being dropped and wish it wouldn't be so long before we see the end result : )   I also relate to her anxiety sadly.

I like Frankie too and I wished they didn't make her friends religion overload so silly. If they played it back a bit it still would have been funny but not stupid. I hope they show more respect on both sides with that.

Edited September 11, 2019 by debraran

[Eeksquire]

I'm not sure why they brought Jenny back, tbh - I thought it was much more interesting to explore what happens when a man is the primary caregiver of a young child and how moms end up relating to him and to also acknowledge, without too much drama, that not all women feel super maternal.  

[txhorns79]

On 9/11/2019 at 5:17 AM, debraran said:

I feel the same way in regards to those characters. I tell myself it isn't supposed to be realistic but then they do hit some things on the head. Kate to me was the one least realistic. She is adored by all and has more action going on than some college kids! I felt the husband's affair came out of nowhere and although that can happen, they wanted her to be the "good" one and him the "bad" one so her actions would seem okay.

Yeah, I don't expect every scenario to be realistic, but I do expect the show to at least exist parallel to reality.   I mean, last season the show made a big deal about sexual harassment, and this season Kate is sleeping with her intern, and it's treated as mostly a joke.  Some of it was pretty funny, but it's also like, what message are we supposed to take away from all this?         

Quote

I'm not sure why they brought Jenny back, tbh - I thought it was much more interesting to explore what happens when a man is the primary caregiver of a young child and how moms end up relating to him and to also acknowledge, without too much drama, that not all women feel super maternal.  

I liked that they switched the focus to what it meant to be a single father, and was a little annoyed that was mostly dropped to focus back on Jenny. 

I'd almost say that the decision to split everyone up by ending the mommy group from the first two seasons was a mistake.  Anne and Kate still have a reason to hang out, but Frankie and Jenny are pretty much disconnected from those two.  Though I do like how Val's role has increased.  I really like the character.    

Edited September 12, 2019 by txhorns79

[DrSpaceman73]

Most of these characters just become more unlikeable and unbelievable as the seasons progress

First of all they are all having more sex than teenagers, everywhere and with lots of different people

Second, Kate, you can't sleep with a coworker and not expect a lawsuit if they get fired.  She got off easy on that one.  And I agree with txhorns79, kate was completely selfish in season two about everything in her marriage.....but the man cheated, so lets ignore all that, its all his fault.

Alice is a little shit that needs to be smacked.  WTF was I watching there?  She has moved way beyond the precocious wise beyond her years bossy little TV cliché kid who knows more than her parents.  Hey twatface, DON"T PLACE WITH GUNS YOU FIND!!!  Stop acting like a little tramp, playing "doctor" at 12 and wearing thongs.  Stop acting like its all your parents fault for being "overprotective" and "invading your privacy".  You're TWELVE, you're a KID, you live in their house.  Privacy?   Give me a break.  What kind of alternate universe, kids in charge BS was that?  And then she LEAVES WITHOUT TELLING HER PARENTS WITH A GUN to go out in the city and gets PRAISED FOR IT because she turns it into the cops?  WTF?  And she acts like she did her parents a favor?  She didn't learn her lesson when she almost killed her friend the night before, she decided to take the gun AGAIN by herself, not tell her parents where she was and go out in the city on her own to the cops?  You know how many ways that could have gone wrong.  Act like a real parent before she turns into even more of an entitled little bitch. 

 

granted having a loaded gun in the house, which she STOLE and is not registered to you, and HIDING it in your house if beyond stupid, but that doesn't excuse the kids actions.  She is so smart and wise, she should know, leave the damn gun alone. 

 

Also there was NO repercussions for pulling a GUN on someone at a college?  Yes, she was protecting herself and no love lost for that guy, but there is no way in hell that is happening on a college campus and no one says a thing to her about it. 

And then snotty Gisselle with her 27 point list of "no religion around my kid".  The woman wasn't trying to convert your kid. Wasn't even taking them to church or even talking to your kid about religion. She was just praying before a meal, and she gets up and walks out?.  What an arrogant, condescending and prejudiced woman. 

For a show that is supposed to be all about women empowerment and positive images of working women, in season 3 they all came off pretty bad.  The men were more likeable in almost every case than the women. 

[greekmom]

Season 4 starts on Tuesday here in Canada on CBC.  I do hope that Kate stays with Nathan. Despite their issues, I think they make a great couple.

I agree Anne is the worst parent ever and Alice is a brat that needs to be shipped to military school and banned from social media.  I would like to know when she divorced Brad and started up with Lionel.

Jenny is a useless self centered character that needs to just be written out of the show.

 

[greekmom]

On 8/7/2019 at 9:53 AM, txhorns79 said:

And I did have a mini-freak out when I realized that Sonia (who is Ian's girlfriend who didn't know if she could continue seeing him because of his child) also plays Rita (the Martha in Commander Waterford's house) on The Handmaid's Tale.  I would never have recognized her if not for her voice. 

She also plays Pastor Nina on Kim's Convenience. 

[Eeksquire]

Quote

Season 4 starts on Tuesday here in Canada on CBC. 

I wonder how long it will take to make it to Netflix? I really love this show - if only because it's nice to have something to watch where the dramatic tension doesn't come from gruesome crime or terrible medical conditions. (There's a time and a place for that, I guess, but I'm so tired of it.)

[greekmom]

Saw the first episode of season 4. Absolutely loved it.  I am actually excited about the preview for episode 2 as 

Spoiler

Alice has not changed and could have put Kate's business in jeopardy. 

Things I liked: 

Spoiler

Kate forgiving Nathan.  Mike hooking up with another girl, getting her pregnant but still wanting Kate. Anne NOT forgiving Nathan. Nathan having a good cry.

Things I didn't like: 

Spoiler

The insinuation that Bianca's baby is ugly. Alice being a spoiled brat - she needs to be shipped to military school. Anne still thinking she can handle Alice by keeping her busy.

 

[juno]

Wow, Alice has gotten so bad that the show is becoming unwatchable. Show may be running out of steam.

[Megan]

Alice's problems are clearly exacerbated by her insane Mother.

Anne just gets worse.

ETA: I really liked Kate's cobalt blue suit in episode 7.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Megan

[txhorns79]

Just now, Megan said:

Anne just gets worse

I do want to be like: Anne, you brought a loaded gun into your home, and left it where your daughter was able to access the gun and fire it.  Maybe you shouldn't be judging other people right now.  

[DriverB]

S4 is available on Netflix.

[Lone Wolf]

S4, Ep6 - they really did a deep dive on Reitman's lip.  They've mentioned it in earlier seasons (well, at least once that I remember), but it was almost a subplot this time.  Good for her - personally, I have a hard time looking away from it when she's on camera.

[greekmom]

New season is on CBC. Still loving the ladies.

Spoiler

Feel really bad for Anne and the move to Alberta. Lionel couldn't find a job anywhere else in Ontario? or at least in some big city like Calgary?

Anne looks like she's floundering and may start to prescribe pills to her new "friends".  I'm worried Alice may get involved in some right wing alt conservative group.

 

[Bliss]

I'm not sure if I'd have started watching this show if it didn't have one of my relatives in a starring role... (I'm closely related to "Alice" - and btw, her 'real' personality is quite different from that of the role she plays), and I'm not sure if I'd have continued watching (the initial episodes were a bit much for my sheltered eyes - I think I had a nightmare about that nipple piercing).

It's grown on me. I've learned to watch it tongue-in-cheek, so to speak.

This first episode of the new season is quite the parody on Cochrane, just west of Calgary. I'm sure the residents of Cochrane will have lots to say about how the depiction plays out... I certainly would! Rednecks! Taxidermy! Drunk cutie committee! Rhinestones and western wear... it's supposed to be funny, and it is... sort of.

I wonder if they'll show the elk roaming the streets (truth), and spring flooding of the Bow River (more truth).

[Kel Varnsen]

I am not sure how much I am into this season, mostly because I find it hard to believe that someone who runs a Canadian based kids book publishing company would be that big a deal.

[greekmom]

Just viewed episode 6 of this season.

Spoiler

I am having major issues with the characters.

Kate: I can't believe how selfish she is.

Anne: I can't believe how she never had a lawyer read the contract she was signing with Sloane even if Kate would be the PR person. Furthermore, how did Sloane find out about Anne's abortion? I mean Anne has done some questionable parenting with Alice and they drag up an abortion?

Jenny is just a terrible human being. 

Frankie isn't all that much brighter with her hiring attitude.

Loved Lionel and Alice in this episode and their relationship. I seriously worried that snotty kid was going to call the police on Lionel.

 

[juno]

12 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Just viewed episode 6 of this season.

  Reveal spoiler

I am having major issues with the characters.

Kate: I can't believe how selfish she is.

Anne: I can't believe how she never had a lawyer read the contract she was signing with Sloane even if Kate would be the PR person. Furthermore, how did Sloane find out about Anne's abortion? I mean Anne has done some questionable parenting with Alice and they drag up an abortion?

Jenny is just a terrible human being. 

Frankie isn't all that much brighter with her hiring attitude.

Loved Lionel and Alice in this episode and their relationship. I seriously worried that snotty kid was going to call the police on Lionel.

 

I agree, not much to watch this season. Characters are awful and selfish. Not only was Anne dumb for not getting a lawyer but blaming Kate for her problems. The abortion reveal on the show was just ugly and not necessary and hard to watch. BTW Lionel still might get arrested for hitting that kid. Jenny is not worth talking about. Worthless character that is so bad I just fast forward through her scenes.

I am probably not going to make it through more episodes as this has gotten bad.

[Kel Varnsen]

How did this show go from being a really good comedy to being a pretty average or below average drama.

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

Just viewed episode 6 of this season.

  Hide contents

I am having major issues with the characters.

Kate: I can't believe how selfish she is.

Anne: I can't believe how she never had a lawyer read the contract she was signing with Sloane even if Kate would be the PR person. Furthermore, how did Sloane find out about Anne's abortion? I mean Anne has done some questionable parenting with Alice and they drag up an abortion?

Jenny is just a terrible human being. 

Frankie isn't all that much brighter with her hiring attitude.

Loved Lionel and Alice in this episode and their relationship. I seriously worried that snotty kid was going to call the police on Lionel.

 

Spoiler

The Lionel and Alice stiff was really the best part of the episode. Kate was pretty terrible as a PR exec and a person. Plus the Ratgirl thing is really stupid. There didn't seem to be any reason why Kate couldn't be up front about where the character came from so Frankie and her daughter could get paid.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

 

Spoiler

Man that joke about Kate sending the pictures to the mom group was obvious the second she took out her phone. I wonder if her company having problems after she spent all that money and bought out the competitor will be just as obvious?

 

[greekmom]

On 3/25/2021 at 6:05 PM, juno said:

I agree, not much to watch this season. Characters are awful and selfish. Not only was Anne dumb for not getting a lawyer but blaming Kate for her problems. The abortion reveal on the show was just ugly and not necessary and hard to watch. BTW Lionel still might get arrested for hitting that kid. Jenny is not worth talking about. Worthless character that is so bad I just fast forward through her scenes.

I am probably not going to make it through more episodes as this has gotten bad.

Spoiler

The last two episodes I thought where going to be cringe but worked I guess.

Rat Girl is Sloane's fault, not Kate's.  No one thought to research out if there is another character called Rat Girl before publishing it? But Sloane pushed for it not Kate. She didn't save Kate's ass but her own.  Sloane really likes to deflect and not own to her mistakes. 

Felt really bad for Lionel but he needs a great lawyer. That kid deserved to be punched twice. He's so fucking smug and his mom is the worst. I hope Anne buries her.

I knew what was going to happen to Jenny a mile away when the entered the women's clinic. If there is any couple that shouldn't procreate it's these two.

I can't wait to see how Nathan's long lost son works in the next season. 

 

[Kel Varnsen]

 

Spoiler

Kate really sucks as a PR agent. Not only does she not tell Anne how to respond in interviews to the Punch Dad thing, but she can't even out think a small town grown up high school mean girl. I was hoping all her shitty behavior would bite her in the ass more but it kind of didn't. I guess a big part of that is the fact that Sloane is kind of stupid. I really hope they don't have her back next season.

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[debraran]

On 4/14/2021 at 8:13 AM, greekmom said:

  Reveal spoiler

The last two episodes I thought where going to be cringe but worked I guess.

Rat Girl is Sloane's fault, not Kate's.  No one thought to research out if there is another character called Rat Girl before publishing it? But Sloane pushed for it not Kate. She didn't save Kate's ass but her own.  Sloane really likes to deflect and not own to her mistakes. 

Felt really bad for Lionel but he needs a great lawyer. That kid deserved to be punched twice. He's so fucking smug and his mom is the worst. I hope Anne buries her.

I knew what was going to happen to Jenny a mile away when the entered the women's clinic. If there is any couple that shouldn't procreate it's these two.

I can't wait to see how Nathan's long lost son works in the next season. 

 

I agree, first season got my attention, then I didn't like it as much and then last season I did. Now it's seems stupid for the most part, totally far fetched and sophomoric. The sex thrown in like they have to keep the audience of 13 year olds entertained, IDK, it feel flat for me. I have one more episode but was looking for a different perspective maybe I missed. I know it's a light comedy but it had potential to be more from previous episodes. Maybe the cliff hanger will bring some spice to it. Watching Nathan's obsession with fitness got old. I can't like Jennie, I try but I can't even love to hate her. As a couple either. I hope Annie finds a way to even things out next season....who knows when that will be.

Edited June 20, 2021 by debraran

[mansonlamps]

I watched a little over 2 episodes and decided life is too short to watch something where every character irritates me.  I can read comments on internet message boards if I want to be annoyed (not this one lol).

[Chewy101]

I expect them to all be nasty to one another, but I don't get the money. Every time one of them is in financial straits, it just goes away. It is so inconsistent and unrealistic.

And I'm pretty sure Alice has ruined her parents' lives about ten times already. Ship that girl out.

[Kel Varnsen]

The new season started on CBC this week and I watched the first one last night

Spoiler

 

It was ok but Kate is still a huge dumbass. It's getting to the point where I can't believe she runs a profitable company. And Sloan is back and it bugs me even more that a Canadian kids book publisher is being treated like she has Google for a client or something.

The stuff with the kid could be interesting, and the whole we can't be Kate and Nate thing made me laugh. I just wish they had given some more time to the other parents.

 

 

 

[greekmom]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:45 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

The new season started on CBC this week and I watched the first one last night

  Hide contents

 

It was ok but Kate is still a huge dumbass. It's getting to the point where I can't believe she runs a profitable company. And Sloan is back and it bugs me even more that a Canadian kids book publisher is being treated like she has Google for a client or something.

The stuff with the kid could be interesting, and the whole we can't be Kate and Nate thing made me laugh. I just wish they had given some more time to the other parents.

 

 

 

Watching as well. I am not surprised that Sloane is now part of the group as Frankie is gone. I guess since Jenny left her husband her stories will always be separate. 

Spoiler

Finished Val's birthday episode.  I mean comeon, there are many crazy things they could have done besides public drinking (illegal), mooning, flashing their tits, kissing strangers (eewwwwwww) etc.

I dont think Val is 38. She's more like 50. 

Glad Sloane is pregnant even though she's my least favourite character she still has potential.

 

[Starchild]

Why are we spoilering aired episodes?

[greekmom]

On 1/29/2022 at 4:40 PM, Starchild said:

Why are we spoilering aired episodes?

they have not aired in the US.

[Starchild]

I didn't realize they were supposed to? Where does it usually air down there?

[Cinnabon]

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

I didn't realize they were supposed to? Where does it usually air down there?

Netflix 

[greekmom]

Anyone watching this season on CBC?

Quote

 

Spoiler

Can't believe Nathan JR got the tattoo. Val's kids are animals.

I wonder if Nathan is cheating again or if it's something else.

If the writer saw the old lady and she was on a public street, there has to be witnesses to the old lady running her over. Why have they not called the police?

I think Alice giving out advice is going to slap her in the face.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

Anyone watching this season on CBC?

  Hide contents

Can't believe Nathan JR got the tattoo. Val's kids are animals.

I wonder if Nathan is cheating again or if it's something else.

If the writer saw the old lady and she was on a public street, there has to be witnesses to the old lady running her over. Why have they not called the police?

I think Alice giving out advice is going to slap her in the face.

 

Spoiler

I'm watching more out of habit than anything else, and my wife likes it. I can't believe they passed on the opportunity to show us at least brief clips of Nathan Jr with Barb's kids. That could have been really funny. Instead we got more of Jenny's stupid fake marriage to save a job she doesn't even seem to like. Plus I haven't watched from the beginning, was Anne always a terrible therapist? Although I do think her daughter talking to people could be funny. Also Sloane still sucks.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Kel Varnsen