Supernatural Ending

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

I suppose that could be the "peace when you are done" aspect.  And considering that pretty much everyone they know is already dead, they'd certainly have a lot of company (I'm assuming they can visit other heavens like Ash).

But they know it's memorex. Unless their memories were wiped, why would they ever take any solace in it?

[ILoveReading]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But they know it's memorex. Unless their memories were wiped, why would they ever take any solace in it?

That could explain why Jensen didn't like it.  He said he wouldn't change anything about Dean's past. 

[ahrtee]

18 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But they know it's memorex. Unless their memories were wiped, why would they ever take any solace in it?

Memories are Memorex.  But the people who are *having* the memories are real.  Bobby was real, Mary was real, and I assume all the others in their little dream worlds are real.  So if Sam and Dean can go into others' memories, they can hang out with the real people, like Ash could.  Or, since the angels aren't in charge any more, maybe the inmates can take over the asylum and go wherever they want instead of being stuck in Memorex.

But yeah, it's still not taking action and saving the "real" world, so probably Jensen wouldn't like becoming an observer instead of participant.  

ETA:  However, if the last scene of the show really is them standing by the Impala on the bridge, I don't think they're in heaven.  With Dabb etal and their ideas of "final" I can see the two of them (as ghosts, maybe) standing by Baby for one final goodbye, and then both disappearing into the cosmos (or whatever) like Chuck disappeared at the end of Swan Song...just disintegrated and becoming One with the Universe or something.  They could always get out of heaven (or hell, or purgatory, and probably the empty) as well so that wouldn't be final-final.

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by ahrtee

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The only reason I'm not 100% sure they are dead is them winding up in the Empty or in Heaven. Since there seems to be a greatest hits parade in the finale, my guess would be Heaven, but how disappointing, knowing what we know about the SPN Heaven-verse. I just don't see how that would make either of them (Dean or Sam) 'proud' or 'satisfied' or even 'content'. Yes, proud of their sacrifice or whatever contribution they make to saving the world from Chuck (or whoever the real big-bad turns out to be), but satisfied and content to be dead? I just don't know.

Jared has "loved" it from the moment he first read the script. 

So all the pressure was on Jensen to learn to "love" it also-even if he didn't or still doesn't.

And he's never said that, so my assumption is that he never did learn to "love" it, he only learned to accept it and find satisfaction with whatever he could of it-because that's what he's said all along after he first let his initial feelings on it be known.

As Ilovereading stated in another thread-it's often what he doesn't say, that conveys his true feelings on something more than what he does say and that is something that he's learned to do as part and parcel of working on this show and possibly, in a broader sense, from the entire business he's been in since he was young. 

[Aeryn13]

6 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Jared has "loved" it from the moment he first read the script. 

So all the pressure was on Jensen to learn to "love" it also-even if he didn't or still doesn't.

And he's never said that, so my assumption is that he never did learn to "love" it, he only learned to accept it and find satisfaction with whatever he could of it-because that's what he's said all along after he first let his initial feelings on it be known.

As Ilovereading stated in another thread-it's often what he doesn't say, that conveys his true feelings on something more than what he does say and that is something that he's learned to do as part and parcel of working on this show and possibly, in a broader sense, from the entire business he's been in since he was young. 

Not long before Comic Con was the time they were called in and be told the ending. Which apparently didn`t really change (only minor details) so that would have been the freshest thing on their mind and Jared waxed poetic endlessly about it in his roundtable interviews. And what he harped on most was the aspect of being "done, dunzo, doodely- done". He listed so many scenarios that he wouldn`t have been happy with, including being in hell, heaven, the Empty, that I really don`t know what`s what. 

It was clear that an open ending of "we got work to do" - drive off was out of the question. But if he loves it so much and nothing he didn`t want happen but he pretty much listed everything that could happen? No idea.

I also never knew if they were told only what is gonna be the Finale aka episode 20 or also what is apparently the Season Finale aka episode 19. Were they told how the God thing concludes? Did the writers even really know at that point? When everyone talks about the ending, does this refer to basically how the show wraps up or include how the Season wraps up? And does episode 19 leave them in a fixed place already, like are they already dead there or do they "defeat" Chuck and everything is good and then they die in the Series Finale somehow?       

[Terese]

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Not long before Comic Con was the time they were called in and be told the ending. Which apparently didn`t really change (only minor details) so that would have been the freshest thing on their mind and Jared waxed poetic endlessly about it in his roundtable interviews. And what he harped on most was the aspect of being "done, dunzo, doodely- done". He listed so many scenarios that he wouldn`t have been happy with, including being in hell, heaven, the Empty, that I really don`t know what`s what. 

It was clear that an open ending of "we got work to do" - drive off was out of the question. But if he loves it so much and nothing he didn`t want happen but he pretty much listed everything that could happen? No idea.

I also never knew if they were told only what is gonna be the Finale aka episode 20 or also what is apparently the Season Finale aka episode 19. Were they told how the God thing concludes? Did the writers even really know at that point? When everyone talks about the ending, does this refer to basically how the show wraps up or include how the Season wraps up? And does episode 19 leave them in a fixed place already, like are they already dead there or do they "defeat" Chuck and everything is good and then they die in the Series Finale somehow?       

I was wondering if they win and cage Chuck, the warning about growing evil dominating would come true. Sam and Dean once again making an impulse  choice that puts the world in peril. I am not even close to understanding how Sam and Dean will be shown in the end or what message is being sent.  Neither has been shown as heroic or particularly thought for quite some time, now.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Terese said:

I was wondering if they win and cage Chuck, the warning about growing evil dominating would come true. Sam and Dean once again making an impulse  choice that puts the world in peril. I am not even close to understanding how Sam and Dean will be shown in the end or what message is being sent.  Neither has been shown as heroic or particularly thought for quite some time, now.

And you think Jared would be so ecstatic about that ending? Or even under (speculated) duress from TPTB, Jensen would call it fantastic? I have very little faith in the notion I'm going to love the ending, but I literally don't believe Jared and Jensen would go along with an ending that showed the boys as villains, or worse, idiots. Bystanders to the nougat baby, maybe, but leaving the world in peril? No way.

[Terese]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

And you think Jared would be so ecstatic about that ending? Or even under (speculated) duress from TPTB, Jensen would call it fantastic? I have very little faith in the notion I'm going to love the ending, but I literally don't believe Jared and Jensen would go along with an ending that showed the boys as villains, or worse, idiots. Bystanders to the nougat baby, maybe, but leaving the world in peril? No way.

I think it unlikely from my point of view, as someone who actually likes the characters. But, the way Sam and Dean have been shown over the last two years? I'm not so sure. I'm shocked that they have barely been shown to be anything but supporting characters in the last two years.

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, Terese said:

I was wondering if they win and cage Chuck, the warning about growing evil dominating would come true. Sam and Dean once again making an impulse  choice that puts the world in peril. I am not even close to understanding how Sam and Dean will be shown in the end or what message is being sent.  Neither has been shown as heroic or particularly thought for quite some time, now.

An Angel ending... so to speak

That could work because they Re the Winchesters and they would have work to do.

Caging Chuck is the obvious way to go unless they rehabilitate him. Idk if it's possible. Amara was justifiably angry about her imprisonment  and subsequent abandonment by Chuck after her release. Chuck has been a sociopathic, world ending,  murderous god.

[Terese]

59 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

An Angel ending... so to speak

That could work because they Re the Winchesters and they would have work to do.

Caging Chuck is the obvious way to go unless they rehabilitate him. Idk if it's possible. Amara was justifiably angry about her imprisonment  and subsequent abandonment by Chuck after her release. Chuck has been a sociopathic, world ending,  murderous god.

Well, I disagree about your characterization of Chuck, until what appears to be a significant retcon to provide the biggest bad and a meta stand in for the cruel and capricious writers for the show.

I'm not sure what you mean by angel ending or how that applies to what I was saying. In my opinion, Sam and Dean have not appeared in the most favorable light these passed two seasons. Neither have been successful or heroic. This season they have been portrayed as almost inactive, as they sit around awaiting instructions from Billie or from others to provide solutions. If this continues, they may end up wrongfully helping in the killing or caging Chuck, which could lead to the world succumbing to evil and they dead or monstrous and in Purgatory for eternity. I don't trust the Empty or Billie, so unless they awaken from whatever sleep induced fog Dabb has placed them in, I worry this will not bode well. 

[Castiels Cat]

6 hours ago, Terese said:

Well, I disagree about your characterization of Chuck, until what appears to be a significant retcon to provide the biggest bad and a meta stand in for the cruel and capricious writers for the show.

I'm not sure what you mean by angel ending or how that applies to what I was saying. In my opinion, Sam and Dean have not appeared in the most favorable light these passed two seasons. Neither have been successful or heroic. This season they have been portrayed as almost inactive, as they sit around awaiting instructions from Billie or from others to provide solutions. If this continues, they may end up wrongfully helping in the killing or caging Chuck, which could lead to the world succumbing to evil and they dead or monstrous and in Purgatory for eternity. I don't trust the Empty or Billie, so unless they awaken from whatever sleep induced fog Dabb has placed them in, I worry this will not bode well. 

The ending of the series of Angel... the heroes against a seemingly invincible onslaught... then it ends...

I never liked Chuck. I never thought he was portrayed as noble or heroic. Thos was a guy than ran on whims. Most of the children who had direct contact with him have mental illness from his psychological abuse. I  think a 11 clearly shows him as not good although and conning everyone. Chuck as the ultimate big bad does not surprise me.

Fans have a history of liking villains because they act goofy... Gabriel for instance.

[Terese]

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

The ending of the series of Angel... the heroes against a seemingly invincible onslaught... then it ends...

I never liked Chuck. I never thought he was portrayed as noble or heroic. Thos was a guy than ran on whims. Most of the children who had direct contact with him have mental illness from his psychological abuse. I  think a 11 clearly shows him as not good although and conning everyone. Chuck as the ultimate big bad does not surprise me.

Fans have a history of liking villains because they act goofy... Gabriel for instance.

Oh. I watched Buffy; but never finished Angel.

I suppose we have little ground to agree on with Chuck. It seems very forced. We have a creator of an incredibly beautiful world, that maintains itself, and humans with intelligence, and self-will and a soul that guides with conscience. Now, he is petty and childish, his creations but playthings. Now, he is hellbent on destroying everything because...? I don't know. The writers left that part out. Oh wait I remember. Because he is cruel and capricious. It's so silly and inconsistent. I think that is why we never see much of mustache twirling Chuck. And anything he is doing is conveniently reported by Billie. It would just get more laughable. 

Likable villians are fun, particularly when well drawn like Crowley and Dick Roman, Zachariah, Rowena etc. 

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/23/2020 at 7:21 AM, Castiels Cat said:

The ending of the series of Angel... the heroes against a seemingly invincible onslaught... then it ends...

I never liked Chuck. I never thought he was portrayed as noble or heroic. Thos was a guy than ran on whims. Most of the children who had direct contact with him have mental illness from his psychological abuse. I  think a 11 clearly shows him as not good although and conning everyone. Chuck as the ultimate big bad does not surprise me.

Fans have a history of liking villains because they act goofy... Gabriel for instance.

Villains can be entertaining however that doesn't make them friends or good. 

Chuck's behavior never seemed good nor was his help easily given.

The overwhelming majority of his Angels are psychopathic with the one's with firsthand experience showing the most signs of derangement and/or abuse for the most part.

People have carried their Christian concepts with them and projected these onto the character.

[Terese]

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

Villains can be entertaining however that doesn't make them friends or good. 

Chuck's behavior never seemed good nor was his help easily given.

The overwhelming majority of his Angels are psychopathic with the one's with firsthand experience showing the most signs of derangement and/or abuse for the most part.

People have carried their Christian concepts with them and projected these onto the character.

Some angels were, sone weren't. I think we see Chuck so differently, that it will just lead to an endless argument, if we continue. As you say, world view is a factor in most things. Fortunately, much is left open to interpretation.

[Myrelle]

It was posited in the B VS J thread that the ending would better be served if it was revealed that the NougatBaby had brainwashed everyone starting with cAsstiel.

The only way I could see that working is if It was all part and parcel of Chuck's plan to get one of the brothers to kill the other-which is the ending that he seemingly wants. 

And I would give my eye teeth for a twist like that even though I'm 99.99999% sure that it was never even a thought in Badd's head-although he did liken it in some way to the Game of Thrones ending,  didn't he?-wherein the writers turned one of the most beloved characters on the show into an insanely murderous villain.

I can't believe that even he would go as far as to rip off that ending, but if he did, at this point, it's looking like that's exactly what he's going to do with Dean.

But I could honestly never see Jensen ever agreeing to that, even if JP did. 

So who knows...

I still think that it will wind up being Billie who's double-crossing them and Sam and cAsstiel will discover that in this next episode-not Dean because apparently Dean doesn't question the motives of Supernatural beings any longer or set traps for them even when everyone else sees no other way but to trust them-you know, like he did with Ruby in NRFTW or the crossroads demon in Crossroad Blues.

Nope, guess that Dean doesn't fit into Andre Badd's narrative.

Pfffffttttt!

I'm with those wishing that there was less than 4 episodes left in the season at this point, too.

How sad is it that I want them to just kill it already-a show that I once loved like I've never, ever loved any other television show before-so that I can simply get on with my life.

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Myrelle
Revision

[gonzosgirrl]

50 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

But I could honestly never see Jensen ever agreeing to that, even if JP did. 

Especially when the one thing Jensen has never wavered on (publicly) is his desire to preserve Dean's legacy (as recently as the interview where he talked about what's next for him as an actor). I know he's let Badd & Co away with murder (at least in this Dean fan's eyes), but that would truly be a step too far.

Edited October 27, 2020 by gonzosgirrl
so as not to speak for all Dean fans

[Myrelle]

So I just read another interview with Emily Swallow about the ending on Hypable and it was surprisingly very good and had some teases in it about the ending and about tomorrow night's episode-not out and out spoilers-

Spoiler

Except for the fact that Amara makes an appearance in it

And it left me wondering if perhaps she might take both of them with her in the end.

I'm sorry I don't know how to do links or I would have posted the interview in the spoiler thread. 

She was lovely again in it and very complementary of Jensen's talent.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Myrelle
Additions

[gonzosgirrl]

I keep going back and forth on the ending. I was thinking (again) about Jensen's conversation with Kripke and Kripke saying (paraphrased) you knew it had to go this way, and to see the bigger picture. Seems to me there two things that have been constants in the show (at least during Kripke's run). Dean must protect Sam at any cost, and Dean never believing he'd make it to old age. Does that mean Dean does die?

But then Jensen talks about the possibility of a mini-series down the road, and I don't think he'd be down for yet another back-from-the-dead scenario as a premise for that.

[Myrelle]

45 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I keep going back and forth on the ending. I was thinking (again) about Jensen's conversation with Kripke and Kripke saying (paraphrased) you knew it had to go this way, and to see the bigger picture. Seems to me there two things that have been constants in the show (at least during Kripke's run). Dean must protect Sam at any cost, and Dean never believing he'd make it to old age. Does that mean Dean does die?

But then Jensen talks about the possibility of a mini-series down the road, and I don't think he'd be down for yet another back-from-the-dead scenario as a premise for that.

Unless he felt that they should have ended it with the brothers still alive and continuing on with the saving people and hunting things motivation. 

He's always liked that and I can remember him even singling out that scene in Wendigo as one of his favorites.

He also might not like what an ending with their deaths(or even one of their deaths) would do to the fandom-a fandom that is very sensitive and often prone to injecting this fictional world into their real lives more so than even the writers of it might suspect.

They've seen the fandom up close and personal for 15 years so he would know.

And didn't he say something like when it's all over with he hopes everyone will take a step back from it before deciding how they really feel about it- or something like that.

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Unless he felt that they should have ended it with the brothers still alive and continuing on with the saving people and hunting things motivation. 

He's always liked that and I can remember him even singling out that scene in Wendigo as one of his favorites.

He also might not like what an ending with their deaths(or even one of their deaths) would do to the fandom-a fandom that is very sensitive and often prone to injecting this fictional world into their real lives more so than even the writers of it might suspect.

They've seen the fandom up close and personal for 15 years so he would know.

And didn't he say something like when it's all over with he hopes everyone will take a step back from it before deciding how they really feel about it- or something like that.

You may be right. I definitely think it might give him pause to think about what effect a 'final' ending would have on these people. But then there is Jared, their king, who loves the episode unconditionally, even now calling it maybe his favourite of the series. Surely Mr. AKF wouldn't see Sam's death, even a heroic one, in that light? That alone makes me think that Sam saves the day somehow. Not so sure about Dean.

[Myrelle]

I've always felt that Jensen was a deep thinker from the way he's answered many questions and interviews over the years-and especially when he was on his own.

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Myrelle
Revision

[ahrtee]

Maybe we get an ending a la Dallas:  They wake up, and

--either this is just another AU, and the "real" one they wake to is the one where Sam and Dean are characters played by Jared and Jensen in the world with no magic at all, or

--they're stuck in a djinn's world (one of the ones who like bitterness/fear, not the "happy place") and it ends up with them coming to in a warehouse somewhere.

Nah--too interesting/not derivative enough.

[gonzosgirrl]

14 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Maybe we get an ending a la Dallas:  They wake up, and

--either this is just another AU, and the "real" one they wake to is the one where Sam and Dean are characters played by Jared and Jensen in the world with no magic at all, or

--they're stuck in a djinn's world (one of the ones who like bitterness/fear, not the "happy place") and it ends up with them coming to in a warehouse somewhere.

Nah--too interesting/not derivative enough.

I've often said that I'd be okay with it everything from S12 on being Dean's fever dream from carrying the soul bomb in 11x23 and he wakes up alone in the forest where he found Mary. Either that or he did set it off, and everything post 11x23 was his vision of what he'd saved the world from in the fraction of a second before dying.

[tessathereaper]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

I've always felt that Jensen was a deep thinker from the way he's answered many questions and interviews over the years-and especially when he was on his own.

 

Same, I think Jensen has a lot of emotional intelligence(along with regular intelligence).  He's a very thoughtful person.

[ahrtee]

8 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Same, I think Jensen has a lot of emotional intelligence(along with regular intelligence).  He's a very thoughtful person.

I think it was Kripke's commentary on the season 1 dvds that said (from memory, so could be off): if the boys were dogs, Jared would be Pluto, and Jensen would be Rin Tin Tin.  

[FlickChick]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

You may be right. I definitely think it might give him pause to think about what effect a 'final' ending would have on these people. But then there is Jared, their king, who loves the episode unconditionally, even now calling it maybe his favourite of the series. Surely Mr. AKF wouldn't see Sam's death, even a heroic one, in that light? That alone makes me think that Sam saves the day somehow. Not so sure about Dean.

All through the series Dean (and sometimes Sam) talked about a "Butch & Sundance" ending. So Dabb certainly won't give them (especially Dean) that. I think since Jared loves the ending, Sam must get to be the Big Damn Hero - perhaps join Nougat Sue with ruling the last remaining earth. And Dean, well Dean has to accept that and go off alone (into the sunset?) just like we saw him in the Pilot. Because Dean has always said that everybody leaves him. Now, wouldn't Dabb just love this ending?

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/29/2020 at 9:29 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

I keep going back and forth on the ending. I was thinking (again) about Jensen's conversation with Kripke and Kripke saying (paraphrased) you knew it had to go this way, and to see the bigger picture. Seems to me there two things that have been constants in the show (at least during Kripke's run). Dean must protect Sam at any cost, and Dean never believing he'd make it to old age. Does that mean Dean does die?

But then Jensen talks about the possibility of a mini-series down the road, and I don't think he'd be down for yet another back-from-the-dead scenario as a premise for that.

In the bar scene Death tells Dean to get his house in order... that can be to get things straightened out however depending on the context it means put your affairs in order because you do6have much time left to live. Considering that Death says it to Dean and she is well aware of his Death books I consider that a heads up the he is not going to make it. It's  a key turn of phrase that didn't otherwise need saying.

Did she keep him alive because she needed him too? The Empty said Sam was alive because Death need him. Have the Winchesters been living on borrowed time and since when...

 

[ahrtee]

 "Any chapped-ass monkey with a keyboard can poop out a beginning, but endings are impossible. You try to tie up every loose end, but you never can. The fans are always gonna bitch. There's always gonna be holes. And since it's the ending, it's all supposed to add up to something. I'm telling you, they're a raging pain in the ass."

 

[gonzosgirrl]

I'm putting my money down on it now. The End is a reset. Since the show is, ostensibly (and despite Badd) about the Winchesters three, I don't think they'll go pre-series. My guess is S1. In fact, I may have written a fic about it a few years ago, lol. 

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm putting my money down on it now. The End is a reset. Since the show is, ostensibly (and despite Badd) about the Winchesters three, I don't think they'll go pre-series. My guess is S1. In fact, I may have written a fic about it a few years ago, lol. 

At this point this wouldn't even be the worst ending I could think of. And normally the great big reset button in the sky that Bobby (not the SPN one) pushes after he comes out of the shower is genuinely considered the worst of the worst. Maybe slightly after "it was all a dream".

I guess Billie's plan wasn't introduced for nothing. So "God" can reset. If Chuck and Amara somehow end up something like "bonding" with the brothers (or just Sam), they could do a different version of natural order reset where they preserve everything but themselves. Which is of course illogical as fuck. But hey, Badd.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Aeryn13

[bethy]

20 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

At this point this wouldn't even be the worst ending I could think of. And normally the great big reset button in the sky that Bobby (not the SPN one) pushes after he comes out of the shower is genuinely considered the worst of the worst. Maybe slightly after "it was all a dream".

But not this “it was all a dream” ending?

 

[Aeryn13]

13 minutes ago, bethy said:

But not this “it was all a dream” ending?

 

I never watched the show but oh boy, the entire show was a dream? Yup, that's worse. You might as well spit in people's face after hours and years of investment. 

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I never watched the show but oh boy, the entire show was a dream? Yup, that's worse. You might as well spit in people's face after hours and years of investment. 

Nah, this was a comedy and it was a freaking genius ending. The show itself had some, let's call them hyper-realistic characters, itself, so this was just an amazing culmination of an exceedingly silly show. I loved it.

[Aeryn13]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

Nah, this was a comedy and it was a freaking genius ending. The show itself had some, let's call them hyper-realistic characters, itself, so this was just an amazing culmination of an exceedingly silly show. I loved it.

Ah okay. It just wouldn't work for most shows.

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, Aeryn13 said:

Ah okay. It just wouldn't work for most shows.

No it wouldn't, the prime example being St. Elsewhere (spoilered just in case even though it's ancient history)

Spoiler

While not exactly a dream, the entire series taking place in the imagination of an autistic child. This was a serious show with ground-breaking issues and heart-breaking outcomes. Rendering all of that imaginary was a huge disservice, IMO.

I would be okay with a reset, since it doesn't necessarily negate what the brothers did , saving all those people (and the world). That still happened, it's just going to happen differently now.

[ahrtee]

37 minutes ago, bethy said:

But not this “it was all a dream” ending?

 

Yes, sometimes the "it was all a dream" ending works!  (But the writers have to be intelligent enough to make it work, and have a sense of humor, two things in short supply in SPN.)

[Aeryn13]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

No it wouldn't, the prime example being St. Elsewhere (spoilered just in case even though it's ancient history)

  Reveal spoiler

While not exactly a dream, the entire series taking place in the imagination of an autistic child. This was a serious show with ground-breaking issues and heart-breaking outcomes. Rendering all of that imaginary was a huge disservice, IMO.

I would be okay with a reset, since it doesn't necessarily negate what the brothers did , saving all those people (and the world). That still happened, it's just going to happen differently now.

I also have in general less of a problem with "resets" because I go by time travel rules of "if you weren't person x because of events y, you would never end up at point z and hit the reset button. So everything that happened, happened at least for one loop.

Arrow did something kinda like it for its ending.

I could also see how Jensen would not initially like any reset button ending. Goes against what he always said he didn't want. So if that is why he personally disliked it, IMO best case scenario for us.

Then in a "travel backwards" story, you could also have primeverse-Charlie and Bobby back alive. Maybe it would have been a whole bunch in a montage if not for the virus situation.

 

[bethy]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Nah, this was a comedy and it was a freaking genius ending. The show itself had some, let's call them hyper-realistic characters, itself, so this was just an amazing culmination of an exceedingly silly show. I loved it.

Yes, exactly this. It was perfect.

And, oh, man. I’d totally forgotten about the St. Elsewhere ending. That was the worst.

[Castiels Cat]

On 11/2/2020 at 10:28 AM, Aeryn13 said:

At this point this wouldn't even be the worst ending I could think of. And normally the great big reset button in the sky that Bobby (not the SPN one) pushes after he comes out of the shower is genuinely considered the worst of the worst. Maybe slightly after "it was all a dream".

I guess Billie's plan wasn't introduced for nothing. So "God" can reset. If Chuck and Amara somehow end up something like "bonding" with the brothers (or just Sam), they could do a different version of natural order reset where they preserve everything but themselves. Which is of course illogical as fuck. But hey, Badd.

Yeah. I have thought this even before they did an entire episode which featured a reset button...

The questions are when, how, why...

Dabb is on record saying it's a final ending. Does that mean no more Winchesters or no more Winchesters that hunt or no more brothers...?

Is it a punishment or something they want or is it unforeseen and a side effect like Billie's fixing things back to the natural order...

I wish I cared.

I am intrigued that Dean narrates the new Wayward trailer...

[Myrelle]

After this week's episode, it does seem like a reset is surely coming. 

 

 

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

After this week's episode, it does seem like a reset is surely coming.

Especially with the preview for 19. It pretty much has to be.

[ahrtee]

6 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

After this week's episode, it does seem like a reset is surely coming. 

 

 

OTOH, if Chuck (or whoever) can just puff someone out of existence (as he did to Becky and her family, not to mention everyone tonight) then what better way for Dabb to end the show than to have the whole world (or a new one) go on but Sam and Dean have been wiped out of existence and all memory.  No legacy.  Not even their initials carved in the table or car.  Isn't that what Dabb's been trying to do for the past few years?

 

[shoetingstar]

31 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

OTOH, if Chuck (or whoever) can just puff someone out of existence (as he did to Becky and her family, not to mention everyone tonight) then what better way for Dabb to end the show than to have the whole world (or a new one) go on but Sam and Dean have been wiped out of existence and all memory.  No legacy.  Not even their initials carved in the table or car.  Isn't that what Dabb's been trying to do for the past few years?

 

Dispair, indeed!!! I would be upset, to say the least, for a long time over this. I STILL hold a grudge against NBC for its mistreatment and cancellation of Quantum Leap AND that Sam never leaped home. *sobs*

I'm hoping Yabba Dabba Doo hired a *new* ghostwriter and just stuck his name on it. And that Ghostwriter was an undercover actual fan of the show and remembered canon and respected the characters. And Dabb didn't have time to read the final script before it went into production. 

Edited November 6, 2020 by shoetingstar

[Myrelle]

On 11/5/2020 at 11:26 PM, ahrtee said:

OTOH, if Chuck (or whoever) can just puff someone out of existence (as he did to Becky and her family, not to mention everyone tonight) then what better way for Dabb to end the show than to have the whole world (or a new one) go on but Sam and Dean have been wiped out of existence and all memory.  No legacy.  Not even their initials carved in the table or car.  Isn't that what Dabb's been trying to do for the past few years?

 

It does seem like he could do that.

And bring back everyone who died in this week's episode including Cas who would be returning to a world without Dean.

Heh. The Destiehellers would be howling mad about that "twist", wouldn't they? It would serve them right for all the Jensen hate they're spreading right now. 

 

 

[FlickChick]

16 hours ago, Myrelle said:

It does seem like he could do that.

And bring back everyone who died in this week's episode including Cas who would be returning to a world without Dean.

Heh. The Destiehellers would be howling mad about that "twist", wouldn't they? It would serve them right for all the Jensen hate they're spreading right now. 

 

 

Why would they be spreading Jensen hate? Just because the actor said that his character, Dean, is not bisexual? They really need to get a life, if that's the case.

[Myrelle]

5 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

Why would they be spreading Jensen hate? Just because the actor said that his character, Dean, is not bisexual? They really need to get a life, if that's the case.

It is.

And they should. 

But Jensen has an incredibly large, loyal and fierce fanbase, himself-and they are striking back in force, but with positivity. 🥰

[bethy]

It's hard for me, now, not to see this scene as a last "screw you" from Dabb to Jensen/Dean. Jensen's going to have to spend the next however many years at cons addressing this scene over and over and over again and be accused over and over and over again of being a homophobe because of his take on the character he's loved and honored and tried to protect for 15 years. It makes me so mad on Jensen's behalf.

[Myrelle]

49 minutes ago, bethy said:

It's hard for me, now, not to see this scene as a last "screw you" from Dabb to Jensen/Dean. Jensen's going to have to spend the next however many years at cons addressing this scene over and over and over again and be accused over and over and over again of being a homophobe because of his take on the character he's loved and honored and tried to protect for 15 years. It makes me so mad on Jensen's behalf.

I thought Jensen was Amazing.in that scene. Simply. Amazing.

Dean was so scared, stunned, and confused in that scene. All three so clear but in such a quiet and understated way.

He was still, too, like in On the Head of a Pin when he found out that he broke the First Seal. 

And then the grief afterwards.  So Real.

But I read all the hate, too and it made me mad as hell on his behalf too.

He doesn't deserve that shit.  

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Myrelle
Additions

[Myrelle]

Nevermind.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Myrelle
Revision

[Casseiopeia]

No matter what happens the rest of the way just remember....