Supernatural Ending

[Castiels Cat]

11 hours ago, PAForrest said:

I don't think Kripke is going to have anything to do with the finale, sadly. He's moved on. I believe Singer and Dabb ran the idea by him, he said fine, whatever, but Kripke's focus is on what he's doing right now. And that is disappointing because his name is still attached to the show and he still receives money from it. I understand he doesn't want to look backward, but this show will be his legacy whether he likes it or not, and you'd think he'd want it to go out strong. And it won't with Dabb and Berens driving the entire narrative. If they were good at their jobs, we'd be getting seasons 16/17.

But I do think it says everything that when Danneel told Jensen to talk to someone about his concerns for the finale, he called Kripke, and not the current usual suspects.

I believe that I heard Eugenia is running. The writers room.

[Castiels Cat]

Maybe Sam dies and Dean doesn't hit a dog but he stops for beer and buys a guitar and starts to write songs to express how he feels about the road so far.

[7kstar]

Never watched GoT, but didn't it's ending come out of nowhere?  The problem is Dabb isn't good with doing something that surprising.

Jared has many times liked a season that Jensen wasn't that excited about.  So for Jared to be all excited,about the ending, isn't a ringing endorsement for me. 

I do know sometimes we fret about somethings happening and it doesn't happen.  So far Lucifer hasn't come back.

Now for Dabb to say it can't be undone...well he hasn't watched many soaps has he.  I've seen some pretty serious deaths on the show for them to find a way to bring the character back from the grave.  Usually it is outrageous, but being this is a Supernatural show...well anything's possible. 

How about the original Death showing back up... Fans would like that though, lol. 

But if the bar is only to please 30%, the bar isn't raised very high.  But maybe Sam fans will be happy?

Maybe I'll create my own ending that they boys were stuck in Scooby Doo and Kripke is trying to pen a new ending but is stuck at the drawing board.  It might make more sense than what Dabb is doing.  I would be fine is Dabb surprised me in a positive way...I'm just not holding my breath.

 

[PAForrest]

14 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

I believe that I heard Eugenia is running. The writers room.

In as  much as there is a "writers room", which is not really, not since it was eliminated during Gamble's reign. If there was, they'd be talking to each other - but they don't. But yeah, Singer certainly gave Eugenie license to call shots along with Dabb the last few years.

But it's obvious Dabb saw Berens as his second in command, and this season that role appears to have become official. They were the duo who were going to go off and conquer the CW with their spin-off - except in the end, not so much.

Which, if you think about it, is a really damning statement from Pedowitz and the network that hands out spin-offs like they were 20% Off Bed, Bath, & Beyond coupons. Pedowitz tries very hard to keep fan bases from genre series to genre series, and there is no bigger fan base than that of Supernatural.

And yet, it's clear he never had any interest in staying in the Dabb and Berens business, even though he knows he'll lose a goodly chunk of the fan base, if not most of it. Sure, Pedowitz is hoping that some fans will stick around to try JP's Walker, but it won't be the same.

I think this time Singer will finally officially retire.

Edited January 21, 2020 by PAForrest

[Castiels Cat]

On 1/21/2020 at 7:32 AM, PAForrest said:

In as  much as there is a "writers room", which is not really, not since it was eliminated during Gamble's reign. If there was, they'd be talking to each other - but they don't. But yeah, Singer certainly gave Eugenie license to call shots along with Dabb the last few years.

But it's obvious Dabb saw Berens as his second in command, and this season that role appears to have become official. They were the duo who were going to go off and conquer the CW with their spin-off - except in the end, not so much.

Which, if you think about it, is a really damning statement from Pedowitz and the network that hands out spin-offs like they were 20% Off Bed, Bath, & Beyond coupons. Pedowitz tries very hard to keep fan bases from genre series to genre series, and there is no bigger fan base than that of Supernatural.

And yet, it's clear he never had any interest in staying in the Dabb and Berens business, even though he knows he'll lose a goodly chunk of the fan base, if not most of it. Sure, Pedowitz is hoping that some fans will stick around to try JP's Walker, but it won't be the same.

I think this time Singer will finally officially retire.

He should never have hired his wife.

I cannot imagine JP in what used to be an action role. He looks uncomfortable in every action sequence.

I won't watch it.

[Castiels Cat]

On 1/20/2020 at 10:11 PM, 7kstar said:

Never watched GoT, but didn't it's ending come out of nowhere?  The problem is Dabb isn't good with doing something that surprising.

Jared has many times liked a season that Jensen wasn't that excited about.  So for Jared to be all excited,about the ending, isn't a ringing endorsement for me. 

I do know sometimes we fret about somethings happening and it doesn't happen.  So far Lucifer hasn't come back.

Now for Dabb to say it can't be undone...well he hasn't watched many soaps has he.  I've seen some pretty serious deaths on the show for them to find a way to bring the character back from the grave.  Usually it is outrageous, but being this is a Supernatural show...well anything's possible. 

How about the original Death showing back up... Fans would like that though, lol. 

But if the bar is only to please 30%, the bar isn't raised very high.  But maybe Sam fans will be happy?

Maybe I'll create my own ending that they boys were stuck in Scooby Doo and Kripke is trying to pen a new ending but is stuck at the drawing board.  It might make more sense than what Dabb is doing.  I would be fine is Dabb surprised me in a positive way...I'm just not holding my breath.

 

No. GRRM has the ending planned however the books have not gotten there yet. The tv series had to get there on it's own.  From what I understand they rushed it and everything felt wrong and they also wrote arcs for some characters that rang false to fans or unraveled well earned redemptions. GRRM is apparently known for subverting tropes and expectations. His books will take the time to lay it out so it makes sense I suspect. He is a good writer. 

[Casseiopeia]

😢

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

😢

Maybe they'll start the partying now and all the cast and crew will be drunk filming the last few eps (it'll help them get through them, and probably can't make the end results any worse than they are!)

OTOH, it's probably the viewers who'll need to be drunk to get through the last few eps. 😩

 

[ukgirl71]

Did I read right - somewhere - that the last day of filming is 9 April?  If so, that’s only 10 weeks away.

[Aeryn13]

1 minute ago, ukgirl71 said:

Did I read right - somewhere - that the last day of filming is 9 April?  If so, that’s only 10 weeks away.

It should be April 1st by my count.

[ukgirl71]

Gosh, even shorter than I’d thought.  I wonder when it will really hit them that it’s all ending, if not forever at least for now?  The final day’s shooting will be incredibly emotional.

[Aeryn13]

5 minutes ago, PinkChicken said:

https://www.tvguide.com/news/supernatural-series-finale-date-time-cw/

https://ew.com/tv/2019/11/08/supernatural-series-finale-date-may/

I cant remember where I first read it with the specifics of the weeks off, but I'm pretty sure there will be a few mini-breaks (probably leading into the day change?) because this is pretty far to push out 20 eps. It's one of the reasons I kinda hope they have a couple of retrospectives planned for those off weeks.

Schedule doesn't leave much room so maybe only a day off here and there? They are on day 4 of episode today or tomorrow so I calculated based on that with the 8 days per episode schedule. Last year, they could finish earlier because Scoobynatural saved them shooting one ep.

With the talks of a possibly writers' strike, I think they would try and push through as fast as they possibly can.

What I am unsure about would be the shooting for the Walker Pilot. If that is done in March, like I read somewhere, Jared would have to miss at least one episode. He can't just shoot two days or so for a new Pilot.

 

[Aeryn13]

5 minutes ago, PinkChicken said:

(bolded) that is a good point too, though surely the scripts are pretty much finalised already. 

lol maybe Jared is shooting the pilot all through March, a couple of days a week. There'd be a lot more prep & producer duties to squeeze in too. With good scene planning, its not impossible he could mix up the days for spn episodes to get a larger chunk off all at once.

I don't think they would get the budget to shoot over such a prolonged time, not for a little TV Pilot. You would need to keep a crew and all other actors on retainer for the entire month, even if only filmed every other odd day. Too costly. I could see SPN pre-shooting a few scenes with him during one ep that they could pepper in another. So he would technically be in it.

As for thr scripts being finalized, they can absolutely have them. Just during a strike, any writers would be barred from even making the smallest revisions if during production something becomes necessary.

[ILoveReading]

I thought I read that the Walker pilot was going to be shot around the upfronts because I remember wondering if it was going to interfer with Jared going to JIB which takes place around the exact same time

[Casseiopeia]

44 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

With the talks of a possibly writers' strike

I hadn't heard about a writers strike. That would suck for their last season.

[gonzosgirrl]

I should probably send a thank you note to Dabb for making me less sad about its ending by the day.

If only I didn't hate him so very, very much.

Edited January 30, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Aeryn13]

13 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I should probably send a thank you note to Dabb for making me less sad about its ending by the day.

If only I didn't hate him so very, very much.

He certainly made me glad the show is ending but on the other hand, this Season and this week especially, I`m seething about the final Season of SPN and him. It is so much worse when you see how everything the SPN writers, including Dabb, spouted at Comic Con could be done and could be done well. Just not by him and his posse. 

[Lastcall]

    The closer we get to the end the more I think it really not going to be the final end. I know Dabb wants it to be the guy who ended the show but I'm not feeling it. It might just be because it's been so much a part of my life in the good days but there seems to be signs there might be something down the road no matter what Dabb does in the finale. The interviews keep bringing up the possibility of Supernaturals return. Dabb said that future Supernatural would be someone else's problem. Qualls seemed to think it would be back in his interview. Jensen doesn't seem happy with how it will end and is open to returning. 

     As much as Dabb is going scorched earth on the series, I still got the feeling the show will go on for at least a movie. Once the dust has settled and a little time has passed I can see J2 coming back with Producer power and some script approval and then I think we can get the true ending of Supernatural and not this parody of a show Dabb has created. 

[7kstar]

 

3 hours ago, Lastcall said:

 As much as Dabb is going scorched earth on the series, I still got the feeling the show will go on for at least a movie. Once the dust has settled and a little time has passed I can see J2 coming back with Producer power and some script approval and then I think we can get the true ending of Supernatural and not this parody of a show Dabb has created. 

I don't know.  I remember when Magnum PI ended the original, everyone said there would be a movie, a reunion.  It never happened.  Now there has been a reboot but it is nothing like the original.  If enough time passed they could do a reboot.  But a movie...don't know.  Sadly whatever damage is done, may be what we are stuck with for some kind of ending on screen.  Now fanficition can do all sorts of things...but it won't be as satisfying as if they went out with a bang vs a whimper.

Now  if enough fans love the ending...I'm not counting on it.

[ILoveReading]

3 hours ago, Lastcall said:

    The closer we get to the end the more I think it really not going to be the final end. I know Dabb wants it to be the guy who ended the show but I'm not feeling it. It might just be because it's been so much a part of my life in the good days but there seems to be signs there might be something down the road no matter what Dabb does in the finale. The interviews keep bringing up the possibility of Supernaturals return. Dabb said that future Supernatural would be someone else's problem. Qualls seemed to think it would be back in his interview. Jensen doesn't seem happy with how it will end and is open to returning. 

     As much as Dabb is going scorched earth on the series, I still got the feeling the show will go on for at least a movie. Once the dust has settled and a little time has passed I can see J2 coming back with Producer power and some script approval and then I think we can get the true ending of Supernatural and not this parody of a show Dabb has created. 

Im hoping Jensen will be too busy.

But as much as I have loved this show over the years its beyond time to put it out of its misery.

[Lastcall]

25 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Im hoping Jensen will be too busy.

But as much as I have loved this show over the years its beyond time to put it out of its misery.

     I think Jensen will be the reason there will be a movie. He loves Dean more than anyone. He loves the character enough to make the hard decision to end show due to poor writing. We know he is not happy with the ending. I have a feeling he ended things with the idea that at some point he could come back and give Dean the ending he deserves. The WB and CW want more Supernatural, they just couldn't work it because of the current situation. Ending the show gets rid of all the people that ran the show in the ground and it gives Singer the excuse to finally get the retirement he has wanted since season 12. I bet the ending will eat at Jensen to the point he will personally want a shot at ending the show on better terms. I can even see him negotiating to direct it. We have seen what Jensen wanted in the episode he directed this year, a bad ass monster killing hunter. 

     If I'm right then he will play good soldier until the show is over, then might offer a little hope at a con then maybe a year or so later he will say they are looking at a movie. HBOMax would probably go for it and throw in 10 to 20 million for a decent send off. I'm sure some would love it and some would hate it but at least J2 could end the show on their terms and not the terms of a petty vindictive hack who despises a character that has kept the show on for 15 years.

[FlickChick]

I'm dreading the ending because I know in my heart that if Jensen doesn't like, neither will I. When it's over, I think that Jensen will move on to different projects and slowly, but surely, get over whatever fate befell his character. I'm through with The CW when Supernatural ends since Arrow also ended this season. I have absolutely no interest in Jared's project.

[Binns]

8 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

I'm dreading the ending because I know in my heart that if Jensen doesn't like, neither will I. When it's over, I think that Jensen will move on to different projects and slowly, but surely, get over whatever fate befell his character. I'm through with The CW when Supernatural ends since Arrow also ended this season. I have absolutely no interest in Jared's project.

I’ve heard that Jensen is now on board...maybe he’s lying but he said he talked to Kripke and understood why they did what they did. Wasn’t his ideal ending Butch and Sundance? I just don’t want them to be separated, but I have a bad feeling I’ll be disappointed. 

[FlickChick]

10 minutes ago, Binns said:

I’ve heard that Jensen is now on board...maybe he’s lying but he said he talked to Kripke and understood why they did what they did. Wasn’t his ideal ending Butch and Sundance? I just don’t want them to be separated, but I have a bad feeling I’ll be disappointed. 

I don't believe he likes the ending. I think that Kripke just made him realize that what he thinks isn't going to matter and it probably is best to just suck it up and do the best he can to finish out his contract. Yes, both he and Jared have indicated that the "Butch and Sundance" ending is what they think would be a realistic ending for characters who for 15 seasons, have said that hunters usually die younger than most. It's the way Dean has always thought he would end up - not growing old with his brother. But our current crew only cares about NougatJack saving the day and don't give a fuck about the guys that kept this show going for 15 years.

Edited January 31, 2020 by FlickChick

[Lastcall]

16 hours ago, FlickChick said:

I don't believe he likes the ending. I think that Kripke just made him realize that what he thinks isn't going to matter and it probably is best to just suck it up and do the best he can to finish out his contract. Yes, both he and Jared have indicated that the "Butch and Sundance" ending is what they think would be a realistic ending for characters who for 15 seasons, have said that hunters usually die younger than most. It's the way Dean has always thought he would end up - not growing old with his brother. But our current crew only cares about NougatJack saving the day and don't give a fuck about the guys that kept this show going for 15 years.

There is a chance that some Dean fans may like the ending even if Jensen doesn't. I've heard Jensen didn't like the ending to Swan Song but I would be completely ok if the series ended with Dean retired with a family. It's also possible that its simply that Sam dies and Dean retires and doesn't try to bring him back. It could also be they both live but retire and go their separate ways. Worse case scenario for me would be that Dean dies meaninglessly and everyone lives happily ever after because he is gone. Still think whatever Dabb does will be reversed even if it takes a decade. 

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, Lastcall said:

There is a chance that some Dean fans may like the ending even if Jensen doesn't. I've heard Jensen didn't like the ending to Swan Song but I would be completely ok if the series ended with Dean retired with a family. It's also possible that its simply that Sam dies and Dean retires and doesn't try to bring him back. It could also be they both live but retire and go their separate ways. Worse case scenario for me would be that Dean dies meaninglessly and everyone lives happily ever after because he is gone. Still think whatever Dabb does will be reversed even if it takes a decade. 

I think his dislike of the ending isn't even so much about Dean's fate but the ending of the story overall. I do expect some stupid new lollipop world brought on by Nougat!God so hunting is obsolete now. It fits best with what Jared has said over and over he likes, namely the "peace when you are done" concept.

In such a story IMO Dean would die. And maybe be reunited with Sam in an afterlife. 

I could deal with a death if it was heroic and meaningful. It is the only thing I want out of this mess now. Give me the memorial, the speeches, the baby named after him and the freaking statue while you're at it. Who am I kidding, this is Dabb.

Reunion in the afterlife, I wouldn't care for. I sobbed about such scenes in the Finales of Vampire Diaries and Arrow because there was a much different context and emotional investment. On SPN? Pfft.

I also don't think Kripke would actually like that ending. If he still cared, lollipop world and all that would probably horrify him. It is the antithesis of what he wanted with the show. But I think he has completely moved on and couldn't care less. Since I believe he does consider Jensen a friend, he likely gave him a bit of encouragement about the ending to ease Jensen's mind, not because Kripke himself thinks the ending is awesome.

[7kstar]

3 hours ago, Lastcall said:

There is a chance that some Dean fans may like the ending even if Jensen doesn't. I've heard Jensen didn't like the ending to Swan Song but I would be completely ok if the series ended with Dean retired with a family. It's also possible that its simply that Sam dies and Dean retires and doesn't try to bring him back. It could also be they both live but retire and go their separate ways. Worse case scenario for me would be that Dean dies meaninglessly and everyone lives happily ever after because he is gone.

There are plenty of fans that hate Swan Song.  I think Jensen has a handle on how the fans will react.  I'm not expecting to be thrilled however they end it.  If they surprise me, great.  Jared has been excited about story-lines that really didn't go anywhere.  So his endorsement that it is an awesome ending doesn't mount to anything for me.  I've set the bar so low, that maybe I'll find something I'll like.

[gonzosgirrl]

21 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

I hope with everything in me that you are wrong, but sad to say, you may be right on target. That would satisfy two things we've seen - Jack's view of "Paradise on Earth" that Castiel believes in, and our S15 title card which often foreshadows the finale (or at least the theme of the season). If that is the ending, I could see why Jensen wouldn't like it - Dean doesn't want a "memorex" life. Yuck indeed.

This would almost literally be the worst thing they could do, and the furthest from the original vision of the show as you could get. Even with the supernatural creatures and wounds that heal from week to week, and even angels and demons, there has always been an underlying that this was the real world. Paradise has probably never been further away from reality. I could never see Jensen 'coming around' to this ending, and more importantly, I could never see Kripke thinking this was a good ending and trying to convince Jensen of it. The only way, IMO, would be if it happened, and then like seeing Sam alive at the end of Swan Song, we see a crack in the mirror as the scene fades to black.

[FlickChick]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't think that this world everyone (including the Winchesters) lives in now is anything but the "real" world - our world. What concerns me is if they decide to end our world with some massive apocalypse with NougatJack killing God, and then have Jack replacing God and recreating our world into "paradise on Earth" which is the vision Castiel saw.  So, in short, real world for 15 seasons, new paradise world at the end of the show that would include everyone - including the Winchesters just wandering about because there are no forces of evil to fight. Let's face it, Dabb wants to destroy the concept of the show and remake it in his own (horrendously insipid) way. This is how he could do that IMO. He's been working on destroying Dean for three and half years, so now he could take on the whole show. Again, yuck...

Edited February 3, 2020 by FlickChick

[catrox14]

13 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This would almost literally be the worst thing they could do, and the furthest from the original vision of the show as you could get. Even with the supernatural creatures and wounds that heal from week to week, and even angels and demons, there has always been an underlying that this was the real world. Paradise has probably never been further away from reality. I could never see Jensen 'coming around' to this ending, and more importantly, I could never see Kripke thinking this was a good ending and trying to convince Jensen of it. The only way, IMO, would be if it happened, and then like seeing Sam alive at the end of Swan Song, we see a crack in the mirror as the scene fades to black.

I thought Jensen said that Kripke told him he was too close to the storytelling and that he needed to detach himself from it emotionally, not that Kripke himself necessarily like the ending. I could be wrong too lol

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't think that this world everyone (including the Winchesters) lives in now is anything but the "real" world - our world. What concerns me is if they decide to end our world with some massive apocalypse with NougatJack killing God, and then have Jack replacing God and recreating our world into "paradise on Earth" which is the vision Castiel saw.  So, in short, real world for 15 seasons, new paradise world at the end of the show that would include everyone - including the Winchesters just wandering about because there are no forces of evil to fight. Let's face, Dabb wants to destroy the concept of the show and remake it in his own (horrendously insipid) way. This is how he could do that IMO. He's been working on destroying Dean for three and half years, so now he could take on the whole show. Again, yuck...

No misunderstanding, that is exactly what I was saying. This is the real world - and that's part of the appeal of the show. So, making it Paradise would be so cartoonish, it would be ridiculous (since the real world is so far from Paradise).

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I thought Jensen said that Kripke told him he was too close to the storytelling and that he needed to detach himself from it emotionally, not that Kripke himself necessarily like the ending. I could be wrong too lol

That is the gist of it yes. But why would Kripke tell him that (and Jensen tell us he said that) if he didn't like/approve of the ending himself. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would just say 'accept the bullshit' if he thought it was bullshit. And if Kripke didn't like it, I don't think Jensen would have even told us he spoke to him.

[FlickChick]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

No misunderstanding, that is exactly what I was saying. This is the real world - and that's part of the appeal of the show. So, making it Paradise would be so cartoonish, it would be ridiculous (since the real world is so far from Paradise).

Cartoonish really fits the bill, doesn't it? Look who we're talking about here as the writer of this story. It would make me ill if this comes to pass.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, FlickChick said:

Cartoonish really fits the bill, doesn't it? Look who we're talking about here as the writer of this story. It would make me ill if this comes to pass.

Me too But Kripke still has a finger in the show doesn't he? I can't make myself believe he'd give the stamp of approval to this. At least not without some kind of hint/wink at the end that all is not what it seems.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

No misunderstanding, that is exactly what I was saying. This is the real world - and that's part of the appeal of the show. So, making it Paradise would be so cartoonish, it would be ridiculous (since the real world is so far from Paradise).

That is the gist of it yes. But why would Kripke tell him that (and Jensen tell us he said that) if he didn't like/approve of the ending himself. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would just say 'accept the bullshit' if he thought it was bullshit. And if Kripke didn't like it, I don't think Jensen would have even told us he spoke to him.

Kripke may not have any creative control at this point unless we learn he had a hand in writing the ending. Itbsquite likely he accepted the ending to avoid any issues with the current showrunners and was telling Jensen to do likewise.  That's just my speculation. Who knows.

I could see Jensen not liking an ending that diminishes Dean more than anything else.

[gonzosgirrl]

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Kripke may not have any creative control at this point unless we learn he had a hand in writing the ending. It's quite likely he accepted the ending to avoid any issues with the current showrunners and was telling Jensen to do likewise.  That's just my speculation. Who knows.

I could see Jensen not liking an ending that diminishes Dean more than anything else.

I just think if this were the case, we never would have heard a word about him speaking to Kripke at all.

[ILoveReading]

Thinking about what various things Jensen, Jared and Misha have said about the finale. 

For me the biggest thing that sticks out is Jensen saying he hopes fans will not make a snap judgment and will take time to digest the finale.    That seems to suggest that Dean does something or ends up somewhere that may paint him in a negative light.  This is what give me the most anxiety.

Jensen said he had trouble digesting the finality.  

Misha said that it was both a happy and sad ending.

Jared said he liked the peace when you are done aspect.  There was Jared's words at comic con.  (I won't say them here.  In case it was a major spoiler). 

Jensen has gone back and forth on whether he wants the brothers alive or dead at the end but it was always the same for both. 

I think Jack will become the new God and Cas will be his right hand.

If they each went their separate ways, with Dean opening a bar and Sam marrying Eileen that, IMO, wouldn't seem to have the finality that bothered Jensen.  They could still see each other regularly. 

So I feel like whatever happens with  the brothers they are going to end up separated with one alive and one dead..

I go back and forth on which brother is going to die.  But if Dean dies he can't go to heaven because of "new canon"  So what if he does end up in purgatory.  He may worry that fans will see his character as a "monster" with all the anger issues getting mad at nougat boy.  It would also fit with Jensen saying he hope fans take time to think about it.  That Dean saw the place as pure and he'd be reunited with Benny (I refuse to believe that Leviathan).

Or if Dean survives and its Swan Song 2.0.  Dean doesn't make a deal or try anything to bring Sam back, he just goes on with his life.reopens Swayze's, and Lisa walks into the bar, or something. Jensen did not like the domestic Dean storyline.   We know that the ep where Sam dies in the AU didn't sit well with Jensen, that he wouldn't leave his brother behind. 

Both scenarios fit everything we've heard. 

A scenario I would love that I don't see Dabb doing is that Dean dies in ep 19 and the ending is Dean's funeral with the big party he wanted, and Death trying to convince his spirit to let go.   In the end Dean sees Sam is happy and they have a kid named Dean.  That could fit too, and Jensen wouldn't have much to do int he finale, just lay there.  I can see him having trouble with the finality of that but i can't see him having trouble with a celebration of his character. 

Although it could be Sam's funeral.   That would also fit with the clues

Edited February 4, 2020 by ILoveReading

[Myrelle]

I think it's either one of two things that bothered Jensen and I'm going to spoiler tag because one scenario has to do with something that JP may have already spoiled...

Spoiler

 

1) Jensen might have a problem with Dean or both brothers "dying", (likely via Amara, after Sam saves everyone single-handedly by being possessed by her); but he also might have a problem with 2)Dean allowing and accepting Sam's, and only Sam's, fateful "death" by Amara. And even if Dean is shown Sam as being content/happy with Eileen in Amara's afterlife.

And following that thinking, if Dean lives, and he's also stuck in the same world with cAsstiel and the Nougatbaby(as the new God), I can also see him having a problem with that, along with just "letting" Sam "go"-which he might see as OOC for Dean.

 

Personally, I'm  hoping that Dean dies.

It's the only way that I can see any sort of real "peace" possible for an IC Dean, and this, yes, even if he winds up in Purgatory.

The part that has always been the most worrisome for me, is not just that Jensen was uncertain about it, but moreso that JP loved it.

[Harleycat]

10 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

 

  Reveal spoiler

 

1) Jensen might have a problem with Dean or both brothers "dying", (likely via Amara, after Sam saves everyone single-handedly by being possessed by her); but he also might have a problem with 2)Dean allowing and accepting Sam's, and only Sam's, fateful "death" by Amara. And even if Dean is shown Sam as being content/happy with Eileen in Amara's afterlife.

And following that thinking, if Dean lives, and he's also stuck in the same world with cAsstiel and the Nougatbaby(as the new God), I can also see him having a problem with that, along with just "letting" Sam "go"-which he might see as OOC for Dean.

 

The part that has always been the most worrisome for me, is not just that Jensen was uncertain about it, but moreso that JP loved it.

JP would probably say that he loves anything, as his next show is going to be on the CW and there really is no benefit for him to say that he hates it.

[Lastcall]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

I think it's either one of two things that bothered Jensen and I'm going to spoiler tag because one scenario has to do with something that JP may have already spoiled...

  Hide contents

 

1) Jensen might have a problem with Dean or both brothers "dying", (likely via Amara, after Sam saves everyone single-handedly by being possessed by her); but he also might have a problem with 2)Dean allowing and accepting Sam's, and only Sam's, fateful "death" by Amara. And even if Dean is shown Sam as being content/happy with Eileen in Amara's afterlife.

And following that thinking, if Dean lives, and he's also stuck in the same world with cAsstiel and the Nougatbaby(as the new God), I can also see him having a problem with that, along with just "letting" Sam "go"-which he might see as OOC for Dean.

 

Personally, I'm  hoping that Dean dies.

It's the only way that I can see any sort of real "peace" possible for an IC Dean, and this, yes, even if he winds up in Purgatory.

The part that has always been the most worrisome for me, is not just that Jensen was uncertain about it, but moreso that JP loved it.

I would love Dean dying and ending up in purgatory, it’s perfect and I would consider that a happy ending. Unfortunately, I don’t think Jensen would have a problem with that in the slightest. 

[gonzosgirrl]

9 hours ago, Lastcall said:

I would love Dean dying and ending up in purgatory, it’s perfect and I would consider that a happy ending. Unfortunately, I don’t think Jensen would have a problem with that in the slightest. 

I wouldn't. Yes, Dean recalled Purgatory as being 'pure', because there was no grey. You fight, you run  or you die. But he wasn't there by choice and I don't believe he'd ever choose to end up there. I don't want Dean having to fight 24/7 for eternity. That is no hero's ending. 

But most importantly,  Purgatory is for monsters and Dean is not a monster. If the show left us with that message I would hate it forever.

[ILoveReading]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I wouldn't. Yes, Dean recalled Purgatory as being 'pure', because there was no grey. You fight, you run  or you die. But he wasn't there by choice and I don't believe he'd ever choose to end up there. I don't want Dean having to fight 24/7 for eternity. That is no hero's ending. 

But most importantly,  Purgatory is for monsters and Dean is not a monster. If the show left us with that message I would hate it forever.

If this happens, I believe that is where Jensen's words about digesting the ending rather than a snap judgment come in.   He's probably worried that if he ends up in purgatory this is how fans will see his character, especially if Jack become NougatGod and doesn't intervene. 

I wouldn't mind if Dean's heaven looked like Purgatory, especially if Benny was there, but  "Nu!lol!Canon! says Dean can't go to Heaven. 

[Castiels Cat]

On 2/3/2020 at 8:09 PM, ILoveReading said:

Thinking about what various things Jensen, Jared and Misha have said about the finale. 

For me the biggest thing that sticks out is Jensen saying he hopes fans will not make a snap judgment and will take time to digest the finale.    That seems to suggest that Dean does something or ends up somewhere that may paint him in a negative light.  This is what give me the most anxiety.

Jensen said he had trouble digesting the finality.  

Misha said that it was both a happy and sad ending.

Jared said he liked the peace when you are done aspect.  There was Jared's words at comic con.  (I won't say them here.  In case it was a major spoiler). 

Jensen has gone back and forth on whether he wants the brothers alive or dead at the end but it was always the same for both. 

I think Jack will become the new God and Cas will be his right hand.

If they each went their separate ways, with Dean opening a bar and Sam marrying Eileen that, IMO, wouldn't seem to have the finality that bothered Jensen.  They could still see each other regularly. 

So I feel like whatever happens with  the brothers they are going to end up separated with one alive and one dead..

I go back and forth on which brother is going to die.  But if Dean dies he can't go to heaven because of "new canon"  So what if he does end up in purgatory.  He may worry that fans will see his character as a "monster" with all the anger issues getting mad at nougat boy.  It would also fit with Jensen saying he hope fans take time to think about it.  That Dean saw the place as pure and he'd be reunited with Benny (I refuse to believe that Leviathan).

Or if Dean survives and its Swan Song 2.0.  Dean doesn't make a deal or try anything to bring Sam back, he just goes on with his life.reopens Swayze's, and Lisa walks into the bar, or something. Jensen did not like the domestic Dean storyline.   We know that the ep where Sam dies in the AU didn't sit well with Jensen, that he wouldn't leave his brother behind. 

Both scenarios fit everything we've heard. 

A scenario I would love that I don't see Dabb doing is that Dean dies in ep 19 and the ending is Dean's funeral with the big party he wanted, and Death trying to convince his spirit to let go.   In the end Dean sees Sam is happy and they have a kid named Dean.  That could fit too, and Jensen wouldn't have much to do int he finale, just lay there.  I can see him having trouble with the finality of that but i can't see him having trouble with a celebration of his character. 

Although it could be Sam's funeral.   That would also fit with the clues

I refuse to believe that Leviathan too. BENNY LIVES!

[ukgirl71]

So, TV Line are now reporting that Dabb is saying “The ending is an ending. It’s not a ‘to be continued.'” The mixed messages coming out are painful and annoying, but we've come to expect that I s'pose.

[Aeryn13]

3 hours ago, ukgirl71 said:

So, TV Line are now reporting that Dabb is saying “The ending is an ending. It’s not a ‘to be continued.'” The mixed messages coming out are painful and annoying, but we've come to expect that I s'pose.

I think he said that before. That has remained consistent.

He did say the "path to it" has changed but the final moments of the show has remained from what it was when they pitched it to the Js.

That clarifies something I wondered: did they pitch them the final episode as an entire plot or just how it actually ends. Apparently, it is the latter. And the plot to get there has already changed. 

My thoughts? A lollipop world montage and a reunion in the afterlife for the brothers. That is the finsl 2 minutes and that will remain. 

The actual resolution of how they defeat or reform or whatnot Chuck and who does what? Still in flux. Now obviously my theory posits one brother - Dean - dying. But that would come about is not yet nailed down.

[ukgirl71]

I am still puzzled by the strong implications, notably from Jensen if memory serves, that a follow up somewhere down the road is possible, hence my frustration at Dabb's comments.  Time will, of course, tell.

[Aeryn13]

10 minutes ago, ukgirl71 said:

I am still puzzled by the strong implications, notably from Jensen if memory serves, that a follow up somewhere down the road is possible, hence my frustration at Dabb's comments.  Time will, of course, tell.

Dabb always said it was final. And that if it was to be continued, it would be someone else's problem. Jensen only said to never say never and he would be open to it if it ever came to it. Not that it would ever happen. I personally don't see it and have never considered a continuation a real possibility.

But really, Dabb's ending could be the most conclusive ending in the history of storytelling and, in a show like Supernatural, any two-bit hack could undo it within five minutes. Nothing, absolutely nothing would and could ever be finite. If you erased the Winchesters from history, blew up their world and make hunting non-existant? Pfft. I could undo all that in a prologue.

[Myrelle]

I think that Jensen is concerned about what the fandom reaction is going to be to the ending that Dabb has planned. 

He knows the fandom and how attached they are to the characters and if either or both brothers die, or if something happens that might seem ooc for either brother, he wants it to be remembered that, as Aeryn said, the show is a work of fiction and in any work of fiction-especially this show with a supernatural theme-anything can be changed or redone because anything is possible in a fictional world; and again, especially in the fictional world of Supernatural.

I think he is most worried about an over-reaction to the ending of this story set in this fictional world from a fandom that has so very often shown  and stated how very real these characters seem to be to them(the fandom).

Edited February 7, 2020 by Myrelle
Additions

[Aeryn13]

10 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I think that Jensen is concerned about what the fandom reaction is going to be to the ending that Dabb has planned. 

He knows the fandom and how attached they are to the characters and if either or both brothers die, or if something happens that might seem ooc for either brother, he wants it to be remembered that, as Aeryn said, the show is a work of fiction and in any work of fiction-especially this show with a supernatural theme-anything can be changed or redone because anything is possible in a fictional world; and again, especially in the fictional world of Supernatural.

I think he is most worried about an over-reaction to the ending of this story set in this fictional world from a fandom that has so very often shown  and stated how very real these characters seem to be to them(the fandom).

I think an ending where either Lollipop world happened or one brother died while the other settled down and they just had a reunion in the afterlife or both happening would not sit well with most fandom.

The Vampire Diaries ending did face some scorn and scrutiny for killing of a main character and going with one ship over another etc. Even though they also tried to tie it up in a neat little bow where everyone got one moment. One moment is simply not enough in some cases. IMO Jensen knows that. Dabb either doesn't or doesn't care.

The recent Arrow Finale faced a tad less scrutiny but even there were quite a few unhappy voices who were hoping for a happier ending.

I fully expect the SPN ending to be supposed to be bittersweet. In theory. How well they pull of the actual balance between bitter and sweet? Probably not well. Yet that balance is absolutely crucial. Jensen knows what overall appeals to fandom and he could probably at least get an inkling how other Series Finales have been received. I mean, Game of Thrones last year?

As an actor that would get me thinking along the lines of "oh boy, I hope fans won't hate our ending this much". That is what I think he expressed. For people to posiibly mull it over. Honestly, I don't believe that will happen. People will either have a visceral emotional reaction in one or the other direction. And that will stick for the most part.

How I met your mother was all set to get a spin-off - until their Series Finale aired, burned down the internet and then it was bye-bye spin-off. Of the four sequel shows to GOT that were in talks, how many will go in production now? One? None?

A bad ending can absolutely sour a show in viewer's minds. I don't even think Jensen hated it specifically for Dean's ending but for the overall show. Jared once said he thinks everyone who see the "being done" part like him would like it. For him lollipop world and/or domestic Sam might be the logical conclusion to the journey. I'm just not sure he has a lot of backers for that particular wish.

[Casseiopeia]

I have a feeling that Dabb's plan is to make sure that expectations for the series finale are so low that when it's finally over fans will hopefully say "Eh...it wasn't that horrible".

[Myrelle]

27 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I have a feeling that Dabb's plan is to make sure that expectations for the series finale are so low that when it's finally over fans will hopefully say "Eh...it wasn't that horrible".

My fear is that he wants to burn it all down to the ground so badly that, like those shows Aeryn mentioned, any kind of a spin-off or furthering of the story through a movie, would not receive the necessary backing in order for it to happen.

I wonder if we'll ever get more on what's presently happening BTS of this show.

Clearly the network was not ready to end it. Not with the news that renewals for s16 and 17 were already in place.