Supernatural Ending

[ukgirl71]

I miss my own little bichon 😪  Lucky Ackles family, having that wee sweetheart.

[Myrelle]

I'm beginning to wonder how I would feel about this show if I never became involved with the fandom and knew less of what was going on bts and on the social media platforms.

I'd probably just be wondering what the hell happened in the last years of it as opposed to knowing about some of it.

I've also never liked the idea that ignorance is bliss, but as we come down to these last few, I'm rethinking my feelings on that, too. 

 

[ParadoxLost]

On 11/5/2020 at 11:26 PM, ahrtee said:

OTOH, if Chuck (or whoever) can just puff someone out of existence (as he did to Becky and her family, not to mention everyone tonight) then what better way for Dabb to end the show than to have the whole world (or a new one) go on but Sam and Dean have been wiped out of existence and all memory.  No legacy.  Not even their initials carved in the table or car.  Isn't that what Dabb's been trying to do for the past few years?

 

I'm preparing myself for something like the only world that gets put back into existence is the French Mistake AU.  Basically ends with a Supernatural wrap party. And the only world that exists is the one where Sam and Dean were characters in a TV show and Jared and Jensen move onto other things.

I have no reason to actually expect this other than lingering wariness over BSG ruining their ending so they can be on our Earth and the showrunner can have a cameo ala Hitchcock.

[ahrtee]

2 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I'm preparing myself for something like the only world that gets put back into existence is the French Mistake AU.  Basically ends with a Supernatural wrap party. And the only world that exists is the one where Sam and Dean were characters in a TV show and Jared and Jensen move onto other things.

I have no reason to actually expect this other than lingering wariness over BSG ruining their ending so they can be on our Earth and the showrunner can have a cameo ala Hitchcock.

Actually, that sounds more logical than most other theories around.  Not good, but logical.  😕

[ParadoxLost]

6 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Actually, that sounds more logical than most other theories around.  Not good, but logical.  😕

That is why I find it concerning, because its not good.  But at the same time it kind of fits in with the way this show seems to go.  Build a whole narrative about Chuck writing Sam and Dean's story and then have the ultimate ending be that they won (becuse they defeat Chuck) and lost (because Sam and Dean are just characters) at the same time while retroactively ruining an episode I liked.

But I can't get too worked up over the ending because I can't think of one single ending that would be satisfying.  Just variations of underwhelming or terrible.

[Terese]

46 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

That is why I find it concerning, because its not good.  But at the same time it kind of fits in with the way this show seems to go.  Build a whole narrative about Chuck writing Sam and Dean's story and then have the ultimate ending be that they won (becuse they defeat Chuck) and lost (because Sam and Dean are just characters) at the same time while retroactively ruining an episode I liked.

But I can't get too worked up over the ending because I can't think of one single ending that would be satisfying.  Just variations of underwhelming or terrible.

I so agree. The season's premise with God the writer and the characters are scripted actors is far too shallow and meta to come up with a meaningful conclusion. It doesn't help that Sam and Dean have spent the bulk of the season waiting on cue, for the director, Billie, to tell them what to do. 

As everything just jumps from plot point to incoherent plot point, with random guest stars standing on their marks, reading from cue cards and the cast trying in vain to spit out the trite dialogue... yeah a really horrible French Mistake. From the very first episode when they were in the mausoleum, the dialogue and choreography felt off, unrehearsed. 

Can you imagine if all this bad writing, lighting, staging, dialogue, was just a series of out of sequence takes from some low budget, low rated show that not many people watch? 

[FlickChick]

Well it would account for the Party City costumed "ghosts" running down the street in bright daylight not seen for the entire run of the show - except in dreams. So maybe we'll get that ending. Sam and Dean, brothers in a nice suburban home, wake up and simultaneous say "You won't believe the dream I've just had. What a nightmare!" End scene. 🤮

[Gbb]

On 11/9/2020 at 7:20 AM, Myrelle said:

I'm beginning to wonder how I would feel about this show if I never became involved with the fandom and knew less of what was going on bts and on the social media platforms.

I'd probably just be wondering what the hell happened in the last years of it as opposed to knowing about some of it.

I've also never liked the idea that ignorance is bliss, but as we come down to these last few, I'm rethinking my feelings on that, too. 

 

I can answer from my own perspective as I've watched all 15 years of the show but only found it about 6 years ago and I've never been a part of the fandom (beyond very occasionally reading/posting here) and know very little about the bts stuff and various social media wars beyond what I've gleaned from reading here more frequently in the last month or two. I have no particular attachment to Dean/Jensen over Sam/Jared or Cas/Misha - I love them all.

I've grown increasingly frustrated with/disillusioned with the show since about season 12. Hated Mary after her return ( she was cold and distant), hated the British Men of Letters storyline, HATED losing Crowley (I loved him in a way as much as Dean/Sam/Cas -- in a smartass demon I love to hate kind of way), hated the nephilim storyline, hated the increasing focus on Jack over the next couple of years. Hated seasons 13 and 14 so much I can barely tell you anything that happened in them beyond a relentlessly depressing trudge through grey AUverse. I was really starting to enjoy the Michael possesses Dean story and was excited about where it was going, but when that disappeared a few episodes in I wondered WTF and the rest of that season (whichever it was) was just meh for me. I don't even remember how it was resolved although I watched every episode.  I didn't even start watching Season 15 until probably October of this year. I'm watching it for the sake of completing the series only. This really hasn't been the show I loved for a very long time. I'm currently working my way back through the series from the beginning and remembering just how good it used to be. I'm quite sure I'll stop my rewatch at the end of 11 or at the very latest, end of 12.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Gbb

[patty1h]

The last eps I watched were the fairy woman in the bunker and the one where they went back to a motel to help their childhood friends. After those, I just lost interest. They were just not what I expected so close to the end of the show — I expected to be riveted as the story of the Winchesters wound down. I skipped the next two (Unity and Despair), but I may go back and catch Despair, to see if the infamous Cas and Dean scene affects me – whether it makes me laugh or tear up.

I decided to check this penultimate episode, just because, but I actually nodded off right about when Lucifer showed up. Oh, great, it’s Luciferzzzzzzzz. The rest of the scenes with Jack, Chuck, Michael just washed over me with nothing sticking. I roused for some reason as the show was ending, so I saw the ending montage, which gave my heart a little squeeze of joy for what used to be. Prayer circle for the series finale.

[Terese]

7 hours ago, Gbb said:

I can answer from my own perspective as I've watched all 15 years of the show but only found it about 6 years ago and I've never been a part of the fandom (beyond very occasionally reading/posting here) and know very little about the bts stuff and various social media wars beyond what I've gleaned from reading here more frequently in the last month or two. I have no particular attachment to Dean/Jensen over Sam/Jared or Cas/Misha - I love them all.

I've grown increasingly frustrated with/disillusioned with the show since about season 12. Hated Mary after her return ( she was cold and distant), hated the British Men of Letters storyline, HATED losing Crowley (I loved him in a way as much as Dean/Sam/Cas -- in a smartass demon I love to hate kind of way), hated the nephilim storyline, hated the increasing focus on Jack over the next couple of years. Hated seasons 13 and 14 so much I can barely tell you anything that happened in them beyond a relentlessly depressing trudge through grey AUverse. I was really starting to enjoy the Michael possesses Dean story and was excited about where it was going, but when that disappeared a few episodes in I wondered WTF and the rest of that season (whichever it was) was just meh for me. I don't even remember how it was resolved although I watched every episode.  I didn't even start watching Season 15 until probably October of this year. I'm watching it for the sake of completing the series only. This really hasn't been the show I loved for a very long time. I'm currently working my way back through the series from the beginning and remembering just how good it used to be. I'm quite sure I'll stop my rewatch at the end of 11 or at the very latest, end of 12.

My sentiments almost exactly. I noted at the beginning of season 12 that I couldn't engage. Something felt off and attributed it to what I referred to as visual texture. I didn't care for Mary or understand her motivations and found her too different from the well developed Mary we met during time travel. Season 13 was so childish in its concept and execution of a parallel universe. The enemy was almost cartoonish and cliched.

By 14, I was aware that I'm not watching Supernatural anymore, but perhaps a spinoff inserted in that time slot. You know, where they keep the cast from the parent show around a little bit, but mostly they are weaned away from the story.

By 15, I was so fed up by the retcon of Chuck, the poorly plagiarized elements of previous stories retold with a tweak or an outright lie, and the complete lack of agency of Sam and Dean. Major themes were actively destroyed and replaced by shallow cliches that only immature adolescents could relate to, as simple spells replaced meaningful hard, thoughtful work. 

I ended up hate watching some tired trite live action comic book out of a 15 year habit. This fuzzy disjointed nightmare of the last 4 years will fade away guickly.

Season 11 is a brilliant conclusion to the show. I will stop there. 

[Pondlass1]

11 hours ago, Terese said:

that I couldn't engage.

Since Dabb came on board this has been me in a nutshell. I just can’t engage because nothing makes any damn sense and the show runner just flaunts his pets.

The final episode of Angel was a nail biter and had a dragon. 

[Terese]

4 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Since Dabb came on board this has been me in a nutshell. I just can’t engage because nothing makes any damn sense and the show runner just flaunts his pets.

The final episode of Angel was a nail biter and had a dragon. 

Yeah, and Supernatural gives us whiney kids fighting in a playground.

[Aeryn13]

1 minute ago, Terese said:

Yeah, and Supernatural gives us whiney kids fighting in a playground.

I was already rolling on the floor when Michael described his tiny little tiff with Lucy as the kind of "battle he hadn`t been in centuries". The what now? Even the wire thing was more of a battle.

[Bergamot]

30 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I was already rolling on the floor when Michael described his tiny little tiff with Lucy as the kind of "battle he hadn`t been in centuries". The what now? Even the wire thing was more of a battle.

That reminds me of how both Lucifer and Chuck said that Michael was in no condition to help them in the fight against Amara in Season 11. If I remember correctly, Lucifer said that Michael spent his time in the Cage "sitting in the corner singing show tunes to himself". I didn't pay much attention, because it was Lucifer talking, but maybe the Michael of our world really was broken somehow by his time in the Cage.

[ahrtee]

I think we've all been way too hard on Dabb.  The man is brilliant!  He managed to get his spinoff  on the air (and even kept the SPN audience and added new, younger ones)  without needing any additional sets, funds or even the approval of the network.  

He realized after Bloodlines that no spinoff would work without the Winchester brothers, so he created a show where they were still around but his own characters were the focus and the heros/villains.  We've been watching his spinoff for years and didn't even realize it!

So don't feel sad:  it's his spinoff that's ending, not Supernatural. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by ahrtee

[KayCordingly]

Dang, I envy how long some of y'all stuck it out. By season 10, I was already disillusioned that they kept introducing characters just to kill them off. But when they killed Charlie -hoo boy was I pissed! I almost stopped watching the show. But my wife was a huge fan and I loved spending time together with her. I don't watch much tv and this was our weekly ritual. So I decided, reluctantly, to give the show another chance.

And then they killed Death.

I actually did stop watching for awhile after that. Eventually I jumped back in, cos you know... ritual... but I never invested myself the same way again. Why should I care about a new character if I knew that the writers were just going to kill them off? Why should I care about one of Team Freewill members dying when I knew that they were going to come back?

So I suspect that the declining quality of these last few seasons, and especially this one, hasn't hit me nearly as hard as it has others. Cos the show turned me from an enthusiastic fan into a casual watcher long ago.

[KayCordingly]

7 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I was already rolling on the floor when Michael described his tiny little tiff with Lucy as the kind of "battle he hadn`t been in centuries". The what now? Even the wire thing was more of a battle.

Oh yeah, that was funny! There's so much of this last episode that I've already forgotten about. I suspect what happened was that there was more of an action scene planned there, but then Covid happened, and they just forgot to take that line out.

That was pretty silly though; *Stabs Lucifer once* WHEW I'm all tuckered out! I think I need a nap! Lil' snacky-snack first though- who's ready for some Jesus wine and wafers? 

2 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I think we've all been way too hard on Dabb.  The man is brilliant!  He managed to get his spinoff  on the air (and even kept the SPN audience and added new, younger ones)  without needing any additional sets, funds or even the approval of the network.  

He realized after Bloodlines that no spinoff would work without the Winchester brothers, so he created a show where they were still around but his own characters were the focus and the heros/villains.  We've been watching his spinoff for years and didn't even realize it!

So don't feel sad:  it's his spinoff that's ending, not Supernatural. 

 

 

You hit the nail on the head. I know you were joking, but I think this is literally true. Also, it makes me think that if Wayward Sisters WERE to have gotten greenlit, SPN would still be going and these last couple of seasons would have gone very, very differently.

[Aeryn13]

7 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I think we've all been way too hard on Dabb.  The man is brilliant!  He managed to get his spinoff  on the air (and even kept the SPN audience and added new, younger ones)  without needing any additional sets, funds or even the approval of the network.  

He realized after Bloodlines that no spinoff would work without the Winchester brothers, so he created a show where they were still around but his own characters were the focus and the heros/villains.  We've been watching his spinoff for years and didn't even realize it!

So don't feel sad:  it's his spinoff that's ending, not Supernatural. 

 

 

You know I've thought the exact same thing. And enoigh peoole ate it and the Nougat up.

[Castiels Cat]

16 hours ago, Terese said:

Yeah, and Supernatural gives us whiney kids fighting in a playground.

This season has been like a soap

[Castiels Cat]

Once Dabb took over in 11 things fell apart. The only thing that kept me watching in 12 was that the subtext... the writing still had some structure in 12 and 13... the subtext in 12 clearly indicated that Dean was being given a tragic hero's arc and I knew that he was going to end up saying yes to Michael in a fight against Lucifer. I stuck it out through those 2 seasons with that path becoming clearer.

There were a few good episodes. 

Season 14 made me very angry. 

Season 15 ...

I heard that Dabb wasn't in charge of the writing in 14 because he was mourning WS not being picked up and he let Eugenie run things. She is the one that said that their audience was the Riverdale crowd. She is also the one that apparently cannot remember canon or mytharc. They started the season on track with Dean's storyline  and abandoned it. I guess that's Dabb dropping the ball and Eugenie picking it up and running with it.

S 15 is what's left of that mess and maybe Vengeance for the cancellation. 

The mytharc of God f'g with his characters is pretty on point... especially Dean... and we know Jensen pulled the plug.

I feel sorry for Netflix. I do not think the Supernatural audience en masse will flock to Resident Evil. 

What was the Twitter reaction to this crap.

CW wanted a spinoff. Dabb and Berens were crap. They didn't want to do a Supernatural spinoff. Rubber suit monster nonsense was awful.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[gonzosgirrl]

17 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

What was the Twitter reaction to this crap.

I don't know about Twitter - I only see the worst of it when somebody links it. But I can tell you that on the Supernatural Facebook page, they love it. I mean they gush about it. There is the odd dissenter, but most of the posts are in praise of the story and Dabb and especially of how 'right' it is that Nougat Boy ascended to God-hood. Maybe it's because there are mostly real names on Facebook and people are afraid to be honest - and by that I don't mean that the people praising it are 'lying', I mean that the people who dislike it are afraid to post at all when there are such... intense fans out there. I know the few times I have posted my thoughts I've been swamped by the 'if you don't like it, don't watch' crowd, and those are the least aggressive ones. I've been told to 'die' more than once.

[KayCordingly]

Yep. Every fandom has its toxic section, and SPN is no exception. 

I follow an SPN page on Facebook, and it posted some fan art with Sam, Dean, Cas & Baby and I remarked how it's funny how the fan art never includes Jack because nobody wants him even though they keep pushing him on us. And WEEEEEW LADDY you should have seen the dogpile I got from Jack fan! No death threats, but it was still shocking to me. I dunno, maybe I'm just too used to this site (with everyone's negative response to Jack) and there really are lots of fans out there. Who knows?

[Aeryn13]

Just now, KayCordingly said:

Yep. Every fandom has its toxic section, and SPN is no exception. 

I follow an SPN page on Facebook, and it posted some fan art with Sam, Dean, Cas & Baby and I remarked how it's funny how the fan art never includes Jack because nobody wants him even though they keep pushing him on us. And WEEEEEW LADDY you should have seen the dogpile I got from Jack fan! No death threats, but it was still shocking to me. I dunno, maybe I'm just too used to this site (with everyone's negative response to Jack) and there really are lots of fans out there. Who knows?

He is quite popular on twitter and tumblr, I guess. Mainly I think with the younger crowd responding to his Cousin Oliver status. 

[KayCordingly]

2 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

He is quite popular on twitter and tumblr, I guess. Mainly I think with the younger crowd responding to his Cousin Oliver status. 

Makes me wonder how many of them were MORE effected by Jack's ending than Cas's. 

Not that there's anything wrong with that. But it would accentuate the shift over the past few years from "supernatural thriller with horror elements" to "Riverdale-esque CW soap opera drama with supernatural elements". 

[Terese]

33 minutes ago, KayCordingly said:

Yep. Every fandom has its toxic section, and SPN is no exception. 

I follow an SPN page on Facebook, and it posted some fan art with Sam, Dean, Cas & Baby and I remarked how it's funny how the fan art never includes Jack because nobody wants him even though they keep pushing him on us. And WEEEEEW LADDY you should have seen the dogpile I got from Jack fan! No death threats, but it was still shocking to me. I dunno, maybe I'm just too used to this site (with everyone's negative response to Jack) and there really are lots of fans out there. Who knows?

I decided recently that as long as I am have disengaged from this shallow version of Supernatural, and am actively on a forum...I would check into other forums and now know where Dabb and company get their material and encouragement. It's that percentage of the new, very vocal, binge watching segment of "fans." And when I say fans, I don't mean viewers who enjoy the show. I mean "squeee" and "feels" and "oh, my poor baby Jack deserves to be God" and 13 year old girls referring to Sam and Dean as "my boys"  and other stupid comments, most of which are delivered in tears while professing, "I'm not ready" or "I'm not crying. You're crying." 

It explains everything. If I hijacked a show, and got that kind of praise for every dull-witted, contrived, lazy thing I did with it, I'd keep doing it. Well, no I wouldn't, because of integrity and respect. But, Dabb would.

[gonzosgirrl]

I trust Singer slightly more than Badd, even if I don't agree with most of his takes on the characters. But I hope this is true, even if that last line is ominous. Just be respectful of the characters, that's all I really ask. ETA link.
 

Quote

 

"It was a lot of responsibility to make it as good an episode as it could possibly be," says co-showrunner Robert Singer, who also directed the final hour. "I think [co-showrunner] Andrew [Dabb] had written a really good script. It's a very emotional episode. It's a personal story, really, about the boys. The season myth really ends at [episode] 19 and this is a bit of a coda to that. It's really an actors' episode. The guys are great in it."

Singer goes on to say that, unlike many Supernatural episodes in the past, he didn't have to worry much about special effects in the finale, though he did note that there's one big stunt scene. "It was really the words on the page that were important in this one and I wanted to do them justice and felt a tremendous responsibility knowing it was the absolute last one. Everybody stepped up to the plate; I'm very happy with the episode. I hope the fans will respond to it. We wanted to give the show a real end, not do something that was enigmatic like The Sopranos, but really bring the show to a conclusion. I think we did that." 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by gonzosgirrl
Link

[Gbb]

20 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

We wanted to give the show a real end, not do something that was enigmatic like The Sopranos, but really bring the show to a conclusion. I think we did that."

So... death for one or both.

[Binns]

1 hour ago, Gbb said:

So... death for one or both.

Feel like it has to be both or it won’t be final because neither one is capable of letting the other be dead, lol. Except for one OOC moment for Sam. 

[gonzosgirrl]

9 minutes ago, Binns said:

Feel like it has to be both or it won’t be final because neither one is capable of letting the other be dead, lol. Except for one OOC moment for Sam. 

Dean let Sam be dead in Swan Song. He said he read all the books, etc., but he didn't make any deals or do anything dark.

[FlickChick]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

"I think [co-showrunner] Andrew [Dabb] had written a really good script.

This is the part that scares me. I don't think Badd can write a "really good script". And I don't trust him as far as I can throw him to write anything worthwhile IMO. The only part I'm happy about is that the episode focuses on our two main characters - something we haven't witnessed in a helluva long time...

[Castiels Cat]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Dean let Sam be dead in Swan Song. He said he read all the books, etc., but he didn't make any deals or do anything dark.

Sam was in the Cage. I think the issue there was his roommates...

6 hours ago, Binns said:

Feel like it has to be both or it won’t be final because neither one is capable of letting the other be dead, lol. Except for one OOC moment for Sam. 

Chuck implied he was the reason for all of their resurrections... that may be off the table anywau... 

[Terese]

7 hours ago, Binns said:

Feel like it has to be both or it won’t be final because neither one is capable of letting the other be dead, lol. Except for one OOC moment for Sam. 

Anyone likely to be able to help one bring back the is either gone or won't.

The made it clear that Rowena does not allow deals. I thought this was decent; now I think it was established to prevent a deal for a Winchester. Castiel is gone, Jack disinterested and Chuck destroyed.

[Terese]

I've never understood the need for  adefinitive end to a story, especially in terms of characters. Unless it is integral to the story, let it be. Think of all the people we have known in our lives. Just because we don't see or know them, doesn't mean that they and their stories cease to exist. There is a conceit to that notion. And I think in this case, it is more along the lines of, "if I can't have it, nobody can." 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Terese

[Terese]

20 minutes ago, PinkChicken said:

seconding the "if I can't have it, nobody can" vibes and it makes me sad.

This is pretty close to the reason I have always been team "we got work to do" ending with the same old same old low level grind, but just no big quests looming over their heads. Give them Rockys bar and a kind of balance.
Its also why I don't mind spin offs and legacy characters in a lot of franchises, so long as they don't retcon the original, and usually they only play token attention to the original mains as a kind of mentor so don't really go about "ruining" anything. I like the implication that life goes on and they pay it forwards in other ways. Its a lot more realistic that there's more to them/life than whatever the story was focused on, and allows room for a weird kind of hope I guess.
I really like when they kind-of address the question after the grand achievement like "well shit what do we do now?" and the answer is an optimistic "whatever the heck we want. Find the next thing & we'll do it together".

Its been through too many different loops for the real final point of spn to just be about closing off the quest narrative so I do hope they pull off the "emotional character centric" ending they've been saying ep 20 will fill -but it doesn't have to slam all the doors shut.

Exactly! Let the world and those in it continue.

I wasn't particularly interested in Wayword Sisters, but I think it was a poor execution. Those Sandpeople from Star Wars were ridiculous. But a legitimate exploration of AUs would have been interesting. Not a "Chuck made that" nonsense; but a serious, occasionally funny look into worlds that can be offshoots because of paradoxes or impossible choices that have to play out somewhere. I love Jody and Donna and Claire, too. But, the set up needlessly nerfed Sam and Dean to be rescued and seemed so silly. 

I would have loved any spinoff with Bobby and Rufus. Or fine, one for Castiel and Jack.  I think character development and engaging stories were really difficult for these current writers, though. Too many quick fixes and plot driven. Fresh writers could have helped develop the concepts of the next generation of hunters if they avoid the cheesy over the top stuff. Super Kaia, by example, was absurd. 90 lb little girl wielding a spear with strength and accuracy was eye rolling.

[KayCordingly]

I just had the most horrible thought!! And the only reason I'm posting it is because it sounds exactly like something Dabb would do.

So the last episode is supposed to be very emotional, right? And Jenson had a huge problem with it, right? Well I don't see it being emotional unless only one of the brothers died and the other had to watch him die. Because if they both die simultaneously then they'd both end up in the good place or whatever and it wouldn't be as dramatic. However, it's been said that this ending is FINAL.

So... what if Sam gets killed during the vampire hunt and Dean can't bring him back because there is no supernatural force left to help them? So what if Dean, overwhelmed with grief, commits suicide?

Yes, WE know that OUR Dean would never do that, but remember how Dabb has been treating Dean. Honestly this would be unforgivable to me if they wrote this ending, but I can't help but feel that it would be the final twist of the knife into Dean's character and his fans. It would be the ultimate character assassination!

[gonzosgirrl]

@KayCordingly the only reason I don't believe they end it that way is because I don't think the network would let them away with it. Romanticizing suicide is just not done in 2020.  When Dean 'killed himself' in the horrendous Red Meat, and again in Advanced Thanotology, it was for a purpose - not because he couldn't live without his brother. He can, and has. Not that I don't think Badd would fantasize about it, but I sincerely think the powers that be would kibosh it.

[Binns]

19 minutes ago, KayCordingly said:

I just had the most horrible thought!! And the only reason I'm posting it is because it sounds exactly like something Dabb would do.

So the last episode is supposed to be very emotional, right? And Jenson had a huge problem with it, right? Well I don't see it being emotional unless only one of the brothers died and the other had to watch him die. Because if they both die simultaneously then they'd both end up in the good place or whatever and it wouldn't be as dramatic. However, it's been said that this ending is FINAL.

So... what if Sam gets killed during the vampire hunt and Dean can't bring him back because there is no supernatural force left to help them? So what if Dean, overwhelmed with grief, commits suicide?

Yes, WE know that OUR Dean would never do that, but remember how Dabb has been treating Dean. Honestly this would be unforgivable to me if they wrote this ending, but I can't help but feel that it would be the final twist of the knife into Dean's character and his fans. It would be the ultimate character assassination!

Oh man. I hope it isn’t a sad ending. Really don’t want to be sad. Not that I’m treating this season as canon anyway (hate that they made Chuck bad and tried to take away their agency, ETC). But it will be hard not to be upset day of if they do something really negative. I’m mostly ok if they both die and are in heaven together and it isn’t “memorex” like Dean was worried about. I just keep fretting about JA not being happy at first. 

[KayCordingly]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

@KayCordingly the only reason I don't believe they end it that way is because I don't think the network would let them away with it. Romanticizing suicide is just not done in 2020.  When Dean 'killed himself' in the horrendous Red Meat, and again in Advanced Thanotology, it was for a purpose - not because he couldn't live without his brother. He can, and has. Not that I don't think Badd would fantasize about it, but I sincerely think the powers that be would kibosh it.

That's true, and that makes sense about the networks having the final say.

[Aeryn13]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

@KayCordingly the only reason I don't believe they end it that way is because I don't think the network would let them away with it. Romanticizing suicide is just not done in 2020.  When Dean 'killed himself' in the horrendous Red Meat, and again in Advanced Thanotology, it was for a purpose - not because he couldn't live without his brother. He can, and has. Not that I don't think Badd would fantasize about it, but I sincerely think the powers that be would kibosh it.

Yes, for the teenage audition they think they have, I think that would be considered a big no-no. Also, they get a final scene together. Which I still think is either a goodbye or both moving on.

Since Badd crowed about how final it is, I give slightly better odds to both dying. Because if you leave one alive, no matter how much you say "nothing can be done" it is less final.

If they do a time-skip and have them both die together as older men, it would be even more final.

My main question would be more how is their legacy phrased in the final episode? How is it established? What is said about it? How is it presented?

[gonzosgirrl]

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Yes, for the teenage audition they think they have, I think that would be considered a big no-no. Also, they get a final scene together. Which I still think is either a goodbye or both moving on.

Since Badd crowed about how final it is, I give slightly better odds to both dying. Because if you leave one alive, no matter how much you say "nothing can be done" it is less final.

If they do a time-skip and have them both die together as older men, it would be even more final.

My main question would be more how is their legacy phrased in the final episode? How is it established? What is said about it? How is it presented?

I wonder how much of a hint is in Sam Highfill's words at the end of this article.

Quote

But more than anything, it’s the final story, which leaves us to wonder what the series’ legacy will be. If you ask me, it’s the reminder to see the good in humanity, and to fight for it. That message will transcend every clever twist, every epic stunt scene, and terrifying monster. 

Supernatural began as the story of two guys who wanted to do some good, and will end as the story of two guys who did a whole lot of it. When Sam and Dean have worked their last case, ganked their last monster, and eaten their last piece of pie, they can rest easy knowing that, long after they have stopped hunting things, their message will still be saving people.

It could hint of a time jump before dying together.

Edited November 17, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[gonzosgirrl]

I wonder if they will have a new version of Heaven under Gack. Him being the king of all things and all, he probably fixed the power problem upon arrival. So maybe "Heaven" isn't Memorex any more, and it isn't the 'prison' that we saw Bobby in, it is truly heavenly, being at peace, seeing your loved ones who have moved on, all the pie you could want, etc etc blah blah blah.

[Binns]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I wonder how much of a hint is in Sam Highfill's words at the end of this article.

It could hint of a time jump before dying together.

I wouldn’t mind that at this point. I’m desperate for it to be a good ending that respects the amazing things they have done (I deny the hamster wheel). Feel like I can’t have too high of expectations. 

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I wonder if they will have a new version of Heaven under Gack. Him being the king of all things and all, he probably fixed the power problem upon arrival. So maybe "Heaven" isn't Memorex any more, and it isn't the 'prison' that we saw Bobby in, it is truly heavenly, being at peace, seeing your loved ones who have moved on, all the pie you could want, etc etc blah blah blah.

Ugh if this isn’t it maybe someone will write a fic. It sounds perfect and I can see how JA would resist at first Dean not  kicking ass all over the place at the end. 

[Aeryn13]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I wonder how much of a hint is in Sam Highfill's words at the end of this article.

 

If they could get that across, for both of them, I would consider it a win.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, Binns said:

Maybe they’ll end in heaven on JA’s face and him smiling “Cas?” —> cue extreme fandom meltdown 

No offence to you at all, but I sincerely hope not. Especially if it is still Sam alive on earth with his happy ending, and we're supposed to assume that is Dean's. Dabbernatural notwithstanding, this is not a soap opera or an after school special, which is what an ending like that screams to me.

[Binns]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

No offence to you at all, but I sincerely hope not. Especially if it is still Sam alive on earth with his happy ending, and we're supposed to assume that is Dean's. Dabbernatural notwithstanding, this is not a soap opera or an after school special, which is what an ending like that screams to me.

Oh, that was totally a joke, sorry. Didn’t translate well, haha. 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, Binns said:

Oh, that was totally a joke, sorry. Didn’t translate well, haha. 

No worries. It's so hard to tell with Dabbernatural existing, lol.

[Binns]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

No worries. It's so hard to tell with Dabbernatural existing, lol.

Right? We all have PTSD from it all! 

[roamyn]

Dabb said in an interview that the series will end where it started.  When it first started - the very, very beginning - the guys were separated.  Maybe I’m reading too much into his words tho.

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

@KayCordingly the only reason I don't believe they end it that way is because I don't think the network would let them away with it. Romanticizing suicide is just not done in 2020.  When Dean 'killed himself' in the horrendous Red Meat, and again in Advanced Thanotology, it was for a purpose - not because he couldn't live without his brother. He can, and has. Not that I don't think Badd would fantasize about it, but I sincerely think the powers that be would kibosh it.

Not to mention their "AKF" message.  I don't think either Jensen or Jared would approve it, and Jared in particular wouldn't be happy with that ending.  

[FlickChick]

2 hours ago, roamyn said:

Dabb said in an interview that the series will end where it started.  When it first started - the very, very beginning - the guys were separated.  Maybe I’m reading too much into his words tho.

Somewhere else in this thread, I mentioned that I thought Dean would end up alone - we know that it is one of his worst scenarios. Everyone leaves. Perhaps Sam dies, or maybe he finds Eileen and wants to settle down with her and Dean doesn't want to be a third wheel. *even though Cas thinks they're better than two wheels*. Now I realize that it sounds like an afterschool special, but we are talking about Badd here. Honestly, I'd rather see Dean die heroically, but Jensen would have no problem with that. So we know Badd wouldn't have that as his ending. I think we should each think of our worst possible endings for the boys, and pick one, 'cause that's what we're gonna get.😞

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by FlickChick