S08.E11: My Little Secret

[dirtypop90]

9 hours ago, silverspoons said:

I think will is not looking for someone based on looks only. If he was at 37, educated, home owner, I'm sure he would be married by now. It seemed like he was okay with her on the wedding day, based on looks and firs meeting. Then it seemed like he wanted to get t know her and what he heard made him feel they were not going to match long term. It seems like it is not just gender roles and money, it is goals , values and lifestyle. I think he is not one to want to lead someone on. Would it be better if he had sex with her knowing he did not see a future. Then we would be calling him other names? 

It’s not just sex. There’s no physical intimacy. He didn’t even give the kissing exercise a chance. He’s not trying at this experiment period. I’ve seen no effort from him trying to get to know Jasmine. At least Jasmine is trying. Yet excuses are made for him but not for others who don’t try at this experiment. He signed up for this. No one made him do it. If he has clear set idea of what he wants in a woman, why did he come on this show and let experts pair him with a stranger?

[Elizzikra]

Quote

He didn’t even give the kissing exercise a chance.

He participated - I'm not sure what else he could have done to give it a chance. I think the spark just isn't there.

Quote

I’ve seen no effort from him trying to get to know Jasmine. 

I think that Jasmine is pretty upfront about who she is and what she wants. I don't think Will really has to ask a lot of questions to get to that. 

Quote

If he has clear set idea of what he wants in a woman, why did he come on this show and let experts pair him with a stranger?

Don't they all have a pretty clear idea of what they want in a partner? I think people come on the show to find that - or to be matched with someone the experts think is a good match for them because they have been "dating the wrong type of people" in the past (i.e. the participants had a clear idea of what they wanted but they were wrong, hence none of the relationships worked out - per the experts anyway).

[Crazy Bird Lady]

As for A.J., Kate, and Luke:

Help is available for many people with 'issues', but not everyone can afford it. 

A.J. could afford help, and I think he would probably benefit from it. 

...Puke, on the other hand, is a lost cause.

(I just hope that Kate hasn't become one, too.)

Edited March 15, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Neurochick]

5 hours ago, configdotsys said:

Calling him a scaredy cat when he said he was afraid of heights to me was cruel and demonstrated that she has zero empathy for anything outside of her wants. She looked down her nose at his upbringing when they were in the park in his old neighborhood, then the first thing out of her mouth when coaching came up was "That doesn't bring in money." If she was a true partner, she would be talking about how to integrate his coaching-- which is of critical importance to him-- into their lives. Not Jasmine.

It seems to me that since he bought a house, that his earnings enable him to coach without worrying about money, and a second house to use a rental income would contribute even more to that, but Jasmine wants more money. Her view seems to be that if you are going to spend time doing anything, it should generate money or it's not worth doing.

Her looking down her nose on his upbringing really was a turn off for ME, and I'm not married to Jasmine.  Why should I have sex with someone who looks down on how I grew up?

The problem with the pottery lady was she just would not stop with all the sexual innuendos.  Once would have been enough but she kept going.  Maybe she's Insta-Famous and that's her brand.  

As for ratings, are they down this season?  If not, then the show will just keep on going, no matter what we all think.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Neurochick

[Kiss my mutt]

I think Will did try to open up but was shot down immediately every time he did. He’s got Jasmine’s number but is not interested in calling it anymore. 

[silverspoons]

3 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

It’s not just sex. There’s no physical intimacy. He didn’t even give the kissing exercise a chance. He’s not trying at this experiment period. I’ve seen no effort from him trying to get to know Jasmine. At least Jasmine is trying. Yet excuses are made for him but not for others who don’t try at this experiment. He signed up for this. No one made him do it. If he has clear set idea of what he wants in a woman, why did he come on this show and let experts pair him with a stranger?

I guess I see if different or maybe he approached it differently? We see Kristine, go all in on the wedding day and honeymoon but then by week 4-5 she is asking the hard questions and wondering will they work because of where they are in life and their goals. Keith says he starting to fall in love and Kristine is now pausing and questioning. Will asked the question first, he took her to what was important to him the boys and girls club, and discussed what Jasmine sees for her future. He sees these goals are not matching. When he took her to that boys and girls club and explained how it changed his life, she brought up how she grew up with stability and money. She did not grab a basketball and shoot some hoops, she did not talk to him about how he wants to give back. He was kind with his words on unfiltered without saying Jasmine is all about money, but he has found out they do not want the same future. It again would be wrong to make out of have sex and lead her on when he has found out there is no future for them. 

[LellePCC]

I have to say, if Will is truly anything like the way he comes off on TV, then I am Will and Will is me. Incredibly introverted. Instant need for nap around groups of people. The need for intellectual stimulation before physical affection. I once read the definition of the term “demisexual” and it fit me perfectly. I wonder if this is a good definition of Will as well. For someone like Jasmine who is driven by physicality, this will make no sense. And because Jasmine is basic, she is not seeing that this is an actual difference in sexuality. Someone needs to tell her that not every person functions the same in the arousal department. 

[Starlight925]

I think if Will had been paired with Kristine, we'd see an entirely different Will.

Kristine had me cringing with her early "Queen" comments, but boy, has she changed my mind about her.  So darn cute, with that big smile, and her general bounciness and joy that she takes in life.  Whether she's cooking, or just holding hands with Keith, she just emanates this warmth and femininity; I bet there's not a man around who wouldn't fall for her.

This has nothing to do with looks.  Will was pleased with Jasmine's looks on Wedding Day, and I think Jasmine is an attractive woman.

This is about Jasmine having almost zero femininity.  Jasmine is treating Will as he is part of a business equation.  A math problem to solve.  You will make x amount of money, you will provide me with x, and I will give you y in return.

If Jasmine would give Will a big smile, a warm hug, a nice meal, and clink some wine glasses together, while she'd listen to his stories, his goals, his dreams, with empathy, I betcha Will would be an entirely different partner.

She could/should encourage his desire to coach.  Shoot, she should offer to help him out, tell him she'll cheer at games, help make rosters, bake cookies for the team.....instead, she shoots him down with a question about money.

[Mazzy]

On 3/14/2019 at 11:58 AM, Retired at last said:

I don't like to stereotype, but Will is an engineer and I have worked with many engineers who are like this. They deal with numbers, black or white - no shades of gray and are very methodical and fact-driven. He is an introvert, and is guided by his intellect, not emotion. Jasmine is just not getting there. She asks a question, but then does nothing with the answer, no discussion, no conversation, just the next question, like an interview. That is not how to communicate with him. And, until she gives him ANY kind of positive feedback, he sure isn't going to give her anything significant to criticize, so I think they will go into D Day without any carnal knowledge.

This is the reason I think Jasmine is "dumb" rather than just "basic". I think she has enough foresight to understand that Will gets turned on intellectually instead of just physically BUT she isn't smart enough to understand what that means, so to her it's a conversation in which he talks about himself and she pretends to care. I think the "interview" style she used at the dinner table is because that's what she thinks intellectual conversations are: a series of questions rather than thoughts you expound upon during conversation.

[dirtypop90]

9 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

He participated - I'm not sure what else he could have done to give it a chance. I think the spark just isn't there.

I think that Jasmine is pretty upfront about who she is and what she wants. I don't think Will really has to ask a lot of questions to get to that. 

Don't they all have a pretty clear idea of what they want in a partner? I think people come on the show to find that - or to be matched with someone the experts think is a good match for them because they have been "dating the wrong type of people" in the past (i.e. the participants had a clear idea of what they wanted but they were wrong, hence none of the relationships worked out - per the experts anyway).

I disagree.  Will was obviously not into the idea before even starting the exercise, and he acted like it--he didn't even touch her while they were kissing.  He also immediately went to the negative after kissing Jasmine as well (that it was awkward), whereas Jas was trying to discuss kissing styles and actually take .  That's not giving it a chance.  

I also disagree about Jasmine.  Ok, so she's a woman who cares about having a man that can pay the bills (she's not the only one).  Doesn't mean she doesn't have interests or hobbies.  He also keeps harping on finances as if Jasmine is asking him for a mansion on the fill and chanel purses.  She's just asking about bills and providing for children, the bare minimum.  I haven't see her ask Will for gift , let alone him give her one.  So I would not put her in the shallow, gold-digger category.

The other participants also did NOT get what they asked for i.e. Luke, Kristine, Jas.  I bet Stephanie didn't either.  But I see more effort from all of them (even idiot Luke) and trying to actually get to know their spouses and being nice to their spouses (even idiot Luke smiles at and pretends to like Kate sometimes).  Will has given zero effort.  And being paired with a wife that wanted her husband to pay the bills, but later agreed to compromised, is not a good enough excuse to completely disengage from the experiment.

I also do not recall Jasmine looking down her nose at Will's background.  I recall her making certain statements to the camera, but not to Will.  And, for all we know, she could have picked up a basketball.  But Jasmine isn't given the benefit of the doubt by viewers like Will. 

It's also interesting how Jas  is supposed to do all these things to turn Will on, but zero expectations on him to do anything to meet Jasmine's needs.

Edited March 16, 2019 by dirtypop90

[Soup333]

An immediate expectation for a stranger to pay 100% of the bills isn’t the bare minimum to me. 

[dirtypop90]

36 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

An immediate expectation for a stranger to pay 100% of the bills isn’t the bare minimum to me. 

But she compromised on 100%.  She also didn't say she expected 100% now, before they know if they want to stay together. They were talking about general expectations in a marriage.

[doyouevengohere]

I don't even know what to say about Puke and Kate. Like, what???? how????  Kate is obviously in a low mental state of mind at this point, pepper should have told her to GET OUT and then she should have brought Luke in to grill him .  Sometimes at your low point you need someone telling you exactly what to do; Kate does not seem to be able to see the situation correctly and make a wise choice to protect herself; the experts need to freakin step in!  I just don't understand Puke at all; is he gay? is he just an awful person who likes to hurt others? is he so bad at communication that he really can't function and is caught up in being a people pleaser?  I do not understand why he is on this show.

I had started to like AJ, but this is why he is single and eats dinner alone.  If he can't make it work with miss sexy AF, then he is going to be alone forever.  He needs to get help for his issues, because otherwise Steph is going to get fed up and leave him eventually and he will die alone.

[Yeah No]

On 3/14/2019 at 10:42 AM, Neurochick said:

I agree with this.  I think Will is smart, and Jasmine isn't.  I don't think she's dumb, just basic.  She thinks, "I'm sexy, so why wouldn't he want to have sex with me?"  Jasmine, for some men that's not enough.  Some men actually are stimulated by intelligence or empathy, or caring for others.  

I think of the difference between Jasmine and Will in terms of Myers-Briggs personality theory, or Keirsey's temperaments.  I think Will is either an Rational or an Idealist and Jasmine is a Guardian.  Rationals can be financial analysts, but I have known some Idealists in that too.  If he is in a client relations position that leads me towards him being an Idealist.  The fact that Will wants to give back to the community and cares about coaching kids also makes me think he is an Idealist.  The fact that he is all in his head and as someone else said, seems very non-emotional and fact-driven leads me to think he is more of a Rational, although that could just be perception because with introverted Idealists a lot of feeling and emotion can be kept under the surface. 

At any rate, if Will is a Rational he would be looking for a mind-mate, or someone that can stimulate him intellectually.  If he's an Idealist he would be looking for a soul-mate, or someone that can appreciate and connect with who he is down at his core.  The fact that he keeps asking Jasmine for mental stimulation sounds like something a Rational would do, but highly intelligent Idealists do it too.  But either way, I don't think Jasmine is what he's looking for.  She doesn't appreciate his core values nor does she offer much intellectual stimulation.  I interpret the word "basic" as how an intuitive type sees a sensing type (in terms of Myers Briggs theory), and incidentally both Rationals and Idealists are intuitive types.  I see Jasmine as not dumb but basic too, and if Will is an intuitive so would he.

I am pretty sure Jasmine is a Guardian because she is primarily focused on traditional roles and financial security and finds it hard to engage in intellectual discussion.  That, plus I don't find her mentally stimulating either, which is usually a sign of a Guardian to me as an Idealist.  Most Idealists like me would not seek out a Guardian for a soul-mate.  It can work out happily in some cases, but most Idealists I've talked to that are married to Guardians admit that there is a little lacking in certain areas in their relationship.  I can see a type clash with Will and Jasmine.

Regarding introversion - I think both of them are introverts, which isn't necessarily a bad match as a lot of introverts prefer other introverts, but they clash in other important ways so that doesn't even matter here.

Yes, I have a background in Jungian/Myers-Briggs personality theory and testing.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

On 3/14/2019 at 4:57 PM, zoltana said:

I think you may have a winner here!  If there's someone else that he's conflicted over then he sure as hell doesn't want it getting out that he's having sex with Kate because that might ruin his chances with the other person.  How can he convince "the other person" that it meant nothing and was disgusting if he kept doing "it"?  I'm excited to see how this turns out.  Now I wouldn't be surprised if they choose divorce and then a month from that we hear that he's back together with someone from his past.

Thanks, I think I thought of this possibility with Luke because it actually happened to me 50 million years ago.  I dated a guy in college that acted very weird about our relationship - didn't want people knowing we were more than platonic friends, acted weird and detached after sex, had me on a roller coaster of emotions.  After he ghosted me I found out from some friends of his that he was actually engaged to a woman back home.  Well, that certainly explained everything!

[Yeah No]

On 3/15/2019 at 5:57 AM, humbleopinion said:

Will graduated from Lincoln with a degree in secondary education so it follows that when he felt more secure financially from his current career he would switch to coaching since he has expressed more than once his wanting to make a difference in kids' lives.

Will says he is an introvert and he probably had too much of the group in the closed space with the camera crew and field producer also shoe horned in that tiny kitchen...

OK, I'm pretty convinced now that Will is either a Myers Briggs INFP or INFJ.  I'm leaning toward INFP because type descriptions describe them as "keeping their warm side inside".  Will has great depth of feeling, he just doesn't show it on the surface.  I'm an INFJ and have known many INFPs.  Education is full of "NF" Idealists as they are drawn to it more than other types.  Will, like me, ended up in the corporate world but at heart wants to contribute something good for humanity.  I started out working in higher education, got a Masters in Counseling in Education, and then ended up in the corporate world.  

For those that don't know Type, INFP stands for Introverted, Intuitive, Feeling and Perceptive.  I used to belong to an INFJ group online that discussed male INFPs in depth.  I knew one well, and now that I think about it, he acted very much like Will.  They can be very hard to figure out, even for themselves.

In terms of Keirsey Temperament, Will would be an Idealist, which corresponds to all Myers Briggs types with "NF" (intuitive feeling) in them.

Jasmine strikes me as either an ISFJ or ISTJ.  She is not very warm, which makes me think she's a thinking type, and seems very based in tradition, like all of Keirsey's "SJ" Guardian types.  As far as a romantic match goes, I can't think of a worse one than INFP with ISTJ.  They are polar opposites in just about every way except Introversion.  You'd think the so-called "experts" on this show would think about things like that, but they don't!  What happened to the "instruments" they used to claim they used to match people?  I could have given them the MBTI and known that was probably a match made in hell right off the bat.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Yeah No

[Starlight925]

5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Thanks, I think I thought of this possibility with Luke because it actually happened to me 50 million years ago.  I dated a guy in college that acted very weird about our relationship - didn't want people knowing we were more than platonic friends, acted weird and detached after sex, had me on a roller coaster of emotions.  After he ghosted me I found out from some friends of his that he was actually engaged to a woman back home.  Well, that certainly explained everything!

Oh wow, what a terrible experience!  So sorry you went through that.....but you're right, it could so easily explain why Luke appears so detached on camera and apparently becomes inflamed next week when Kate tells him that she told Dr. Pepper.  Luke might have someone waiting for him, or someone he's liked for a while, so he wants to be able to say, "Baby, see, it's all right there on camera.  I had zero feelings towards Kate.  You can see from the show, I didn't even hold her hand!"

He's been analyzed to death here.  Is he a narcissist?  Is he a sociopath?  Is he an emotional abuser?  I'm not a therapist, so I'll just say:  He's an a-hole.

[LellePCC]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

OK, I'm pretty convinced now that Will is either a Myers Briggs INFP or INFJ.  I'm leaning toward INFP because type descriptions describe them as "keeping their warm side inside".  Will has great depth of feeling, he just doesn't show it on the surface.  I'm an INFJ and have known many INFPs.  Education is full of "NF" Idealists as they are drawn to it more than other types.  Will, like me, ended up in the corporate world but at heart wants to contribute something good for humanity.  I started out working in higher education, got a Masters in Counseling in Education, and then ended up in the corporate world.  

For those that don't know Type, INFP stands for Introverted, Intuitive, Feeling and Perceptive.  I used to belong to an INFJ group online that discussed male INFPs in depth.  I knew one well, and now that I think about it, he acted very much like Will.  They can be very hard to figure out, even for themselves.

In terms of Keirsey Temperament, Will would be an Idealist, which corresponds to all Myers Briggs types with "NF" (intuitive feeling) in them.

Jasmine strikes me as either an ISFJ or ISTJ.  She is not very warm, which makes me think she's a thinking type, and seems very based in tradition, like all of Keirsey's "SJ" Guardian types.  As far as a romantic match goes, I can't think of a worse one than INFP with ISTJ.  They are polar opposites in just about every way except Introversion.  You'd think the so-called "experts" on this show would think about things like that, but they don't!  What happened to the "instruments" they used to claim they used to match people?  I could have given them the MBTI and known that was probably a match made in hell right off the bat.

I’m an INTP and Will reminds me a lot of myself. However, I’m sure you’re aware the MBTI is not considered particularly reliable nor scientific these days.

[Yeah No]

12 minutes ago, Lellend said:

I’m an INTP and Will reminds me a lot of myself. However, I’m sure you’re aware the MBTI is not considered particularly reliable nor scientific these days.

Yes I most certainly am aware of that, but I'm not a Rational so I don't need it to be considered "scientific" to find something valid about it (not that I would find anything valid about something like astrology, mind you).  When in the right hands Type can be used as a tool, and I find it pretty reliable in my own life.  🙂

INFPs and INTPs can look alike because INFPs introvert their feelings.  The reason I'm leaning toward INFP with Will is his degree in education plus his desire to help and coach kids.  

Edited March 16, 2019 by Yeah No

[gonecrackers]

I think it would be difficult to analyze someone accurately from the bits & pieces they give us, except to say if someone is acting like an asshole. But even then sometimes there's more going on than we'll ever know. I have no idea about Luke. Sometimes the 'experts' give little hints. When Pepper, was it?, said we assume men don't have trauma, it got people thinking maybe he was abused. But I question him doing something like this at all if that was the case. We know he's had gf's, of many ethnicities, & seemed quite warm with them in pictures, but he's anything but that with Kate. I still think she's just not his type, & maybe he didn't emphasize what he wanted enough so is annoyed & taking it out on her. It comes back to bite him somehow & he 'tries' to save face, but not very well.

I would say it will be interesting to see how this ends but I think it will be just like other seasons, where the idiot 'experts' end up toasting to all the couples selling their souls choosing to stay together at d-day, then somewhere down the road the divorce announcements will trickle out.

But if Kate shows up for a reunion pregnant I think my head will explode...

[aphroditewitch]

If Will is serious about wanting to coach basketball, he needs to improve his communication skills. Parents of kid athletes can be crazy these days and if a parent feels that a coach is being overly critical and harsh towards their kid, at minimum they are going to try and get the coach fired. 

[LellePCC]

51 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Yes I most certainly am aware of that, but I'm not a Rational so I don't need it to be considered "scientific" to find something valid about it (not that I would find anything valid about something like astrology, mind you).  When in the right hands Type can be used as a tool, and I find it pretty reliable in my own life.  🙂

INFPs and INTPs can look alike because INFPs introvert their feelings.  The reason I'm leaning toward INFP with Will is his degree in education plus his desire to help and coach kids.  

I really encourage you to research the limitations of MBTI and it’s alternatives, as there are better options to be used as “tools” for that subject matter. MBTI is not a whole lot more reliable than a horoscope, and disregards some very important factors in human behavior. I would strongly question using MBTI as a factor in any decision-making process regarding relationships (i.e. assuming two people won’t work together due to their “types”). Personality should be viewed as a spectrum, not a binary system. 

- A mental health practitioner

[Ohwell]

I never thought at the beginning of this season that Queen Kristine would be my favorite, but she is now, followed by Stephanie and Will.

[humbleopinion]

The Best of the Worst Award Season 8 goes to......Keith....if it isn’t mealtime then he pretty much is like a houseplant sitting on the couch

The Meh of the Worst Season 8 is Jasmine....after the Decision Day show she will just be a complaining guest on the many MAFS podcasts where she will try to answer the rhetorical question time after time....Why didn’t Will boink me?

The Worst of the Worst Season 8....we have a 3 way tie....the trio of Kate, AJ and Puke killed my enjoyment of this show.....

Edited March 16, 2019 by humbleopinion

[Elizzikra]

Quote

.if it isn’t mealtime then he pretty much is like a houseplant sitting on the couch

Or he is at work, doing an overnight shift. Or at school.

[Soup333]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

Or he is at work, doing an overnight shift. Or at school.

At least we can say Keith is trying. Now whether his efforts will be enough for Kristine - or if he’ll even sustain them long term is another question. 

In light of all we know now, any guesses on when they backtaped that decision about having four couples this season? When Pastor Cal had that “premonition” and said Kate and Luke would work out if he could find her attractive. No way that was a coincidence. 🙄

[Gem 10]

On 3/15/2019 at 12:22 PM, dirtypop90 said:

It’s not just sex. There’s no physical intimacy. He didn’t even give the kissing exercise a chance. He’s not trying at this experiment period. I’ve seen no effort from him trying to get to know Jasmine. At least Jasmine is trying. Yet excuses are made for him but not for others who don’t try at this experiment. He signed up for this. No one made him do it. If he has clear set idea of what he wants in a woman, why did he come on this show and let experts pair him with a stranger?

Because he took a chance.  If he didn’t care for the woman he was matched with, he knew he could get a divorce.  I noticed he wasn’t too verbal with Jasmine, but when he was on unfiltered, he did quite a bit of talking.  There’s no attraction there for him with Jasmine and he can’t force it.  It’s either there, or it isn’t.

[Ohwell]

I lost any sympathy for AJ and stopped rooting for him and Stephanie to make it when he slapped Luke on the ass.  As bad as Luke has been shown, no one--not even him--deserved to be treated like that.  I wish Luke had punched his drunk face, but I give props to Luke for showing restraint in front of the cameras.   Also, I'd bet good money that AJ wouldn't have slapped Will or Keith on the ass.

[Soup333]

56 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I lost any sympathy for AJ and stopped rooting for him and Stephanie to make it when he slapped Luke on the ass.  As bad as Luke has been shown, no one--not even him--deserved to be treated like that.  I wish Luke had punched his drunk face, but I give props to Luke for showing restraint in front of the cameras.   Also, I'd bet good money that AJ wouldn't have slapped Will or Keith on the ass.

The way Stephanie high-tailed it out of there made me wonder if she’s seen AJ drunk in a crowd before. 

Will told him to bring it down a notch and AJ said something about not getting on his bad side? I forget what it was exactly but he seems like an equal opportunity asshole when he’s drunk. He might not have slapped the other two guys on the ass but I bet he’d have argued with them. Loudly. 

[Ohwell]

7 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

He might not have slapped the other two guys on the ass but I bet he’d have argued with them. Loudly. 

Oh sure, he might have run his mouth but if one of them had stood up, I think he would have shut the hell up.  He might be drunk but I don't think he's stupid.

[riff-raff]

On 3/15/2019 at 2:45 PM, Sterling said:

This has nothing to do with looks.  Will was pleased with Jasmine's looks on Wedding Day, and I think Jasmine is an attractive woman.

This is about Jasmine having almost zero femininity.  Jasmine is treating Will as he is part of a business equation.  A math problem to solve.  You will make x amount of money, you will provide me with x, and I will give you y in return.

To put I finer point on it, I think  Will's problem with Jasmine is that she unintentionally belittles him.   From large issues, like criticizing where he grew up and his life dreams, to smaller things like telling him how to cook pancakes and scolding him that he's driving too fast.  She often says these things in a joking or friendly tone, and I don't believe she is trying to be hurtful, but I think they are killing Will's desire for her.  She is treating him like an mother trying to get him to sit up straight and do his homework, and not a women who finds Will a desirable, competent person.   Is it any surprise that he doesn't feel desire, if he is being constantly told that he is not desirable?   I would be surprised if this is a dynamic that's unique to her relationship with Will and may explain how an attractive, intelligent women is still searching for a soul-mate.    I think this match could have worked, had Jasmine given Will more breathing room and less criticism. They both seem like decent people.  

[Neurochick]

4 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I lost any sympathy for AJ and stopped rooting for him and Stephanie to make it when he slapped Luke on the ass.  As bad as Luke has been shown, no one--not even him--deserved to be treated like that.  I wish Luke had punched his drunk face, but I give props to Luke for showing restraint in front of the cameras.   Also, I'd bet good money that AJ wouldn't have slapped Will or Keith on the ass.

If he'd done that to Jasmine, Kate or Kristine, people would be calling for him to leave the show.  Just because he did it to a man doesn't make it any less disgusting and I detest Luke.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

A.J. is an, angry, hostile, out-of-control drunk and I'm sure he knew he'd blow up when he chose to drink whisky.

Not cool at all, even if it was his form of "protesting" the blatant lie by 'production' that the couples would be going on a "mini-moon," which A.J.  had obviously been looking forward to --until he found out they would actually be forced to share a house with the 3 other couples!  I agree with A.J., that it was blatant manipulation and intrusion into his marriage by 'production' (and maybe the 'experts,' as well).

I don't blame AJ for being very angry about that --but his behavior definitely crossed the line.

9 hours ago, Neurochick said:

If he'd done that to Jasmine, Kate or Kristine, people would be calling for him to leave the show.  Just because he did it to a man doesn't make it any less disgusting and I detest Luke.

The demonstration that AJ obviously *knows* he's a violent and extremely obnoxious drunk, proves that A.J. (not Kate) is the one with a serious alcohol problem.

I say this very begrudgingly:  whichever 'expert' said that no therapist can make a person change --the client themself has to *choose* to change, was absolutely right.

It reminds me of my favorite "light bulb" joke:

Q: "How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?"

A: "Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change.  

...Right now, I really don't think A.J. wants to change. And that (unfortunatly) will end his marriage to Stephanie.  

Edited March 18, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Starlight925]

47 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

A.J. is an, angry, hostile, out-of-control drunk and I'm sure he he'd blow up when he chose to drink whisky.

Not cool at all, even if it was his form of "protesting" the blatant lie by 'production' that the couples would be going on a "mini-moon," which A.J.  had obviously been looking forward to --until he found out they would actually be forced to share a house with the 3 other couples!  I agree with A.J., that it was blatant manipulation and intrusion into his marriage by 'production' (and maybe the 'experts,' as well).

I don't blame AJ for being very angry about that --but his behavior definitely crossed the line.

Was it actually manipulation by production?  At what point did production tell them they'd be "mini-mooning" with the other couples?  IIRC, AJ was upset on the drive there, so they knew on the way there, correct?  And Kristine & Keith decided to arrive early, so they could have first room choice.

So it's not like they drove up, thinking they'd be alone, and then finding out about the other couples.

Either way, part of a marriage is how one reacts to stressors, to unexpected issues.  All the other couples were having a good time, playing games, chatting, until AJ/Stephanie walked in, when the dark mood hit.

And no, it was not only not ok for AJ to make his "joke" to Luke about being a top or bottom, it was highly inappropriate for him to slap Luke.  I can't stand Luke, but in that one evening, Luke handled all of that very well.

[humbleopinion]

Pastor Cal told the couples at the group dinner that they would be mini mooning together....

AJ had plenty of time to plan the ruining of the mini moon and Steph had time to plan her "headache."

He was probably steaming and stewing the whole drive to the AirBnB.

 AJ's has no excuse for his boorish behavior... he was going to sabotage the documenting as his ongoing  dislike for the production side of the show.

He purposefully ruined what could have been a fun  time....

Shut your big fat, vulgar trap AJ...you are an embarrassing drunkard...red flag Steph...

[Neurochick]

1 minute ago, humbleopinion said:

Shut your big fat, vulgar trap AJ...you are an embarrassing drunkard...red flag Steph...

I wonder how AJ would react if on decision day, Stephanie said she wanted a divorce.  I bet Stephanie will say she wants to stay married.  One, because she really wants to be married, wants to have a husband.  Two maybe because she's scared of AJ.

[humbleopinion]

Steph dump AJ on D Day.... then do a football spike and the Funky Chicken....total blindside....

AJ cannot be trusted...he works himself up into a rage.

It is a matter of when AJ turns on her with cruelty....because he will get irritated over something....

AJ has proved to be vindictive, revengeful, spiteful to production...they professionals are doing their job and he signed a contract to participate in the show...

He will turn on Steph....sooner than later....

There will be a time when she cannot predict his volatile temper and he will use it to lash out at her...

Steph will stay married because the positives outweigh the negatives....for now....

[Ohwell]

I was rooting for AJ to calm down so that he and Stephanie could make a go of it.  However, the more I've seen of him these past couple weeks, the more I hope that Stephanie calls it quits because I'm beginning to think that AJ could be dangerous to be around.  I can imagine them being in the car, him driving and being all pissed at someone in another car, honking his horn, and finally getting out of the car to confront that person.  That person could be as crazy as AJ, goes back to his car, gets a gun, shoots AJ and maybe even Stephanie.  Or AJ gets drunk and disorderly in a restaurant and they call the cops.  I am not kidding with these scenarios.  I now see that AJ is a powder keg just waiting to blow.

I don't know if it's brain damage from his accident or whatever, but the way his eyes roll around in his head makes me scared for Stephanie now.

[aphroditewitch]

AJ is foolish for walking right into the trap that production set out for him. The point of the group mini moons was that they wanted someone to lose their cool at the stupidity of the situation. And AJ obliged them with his terrible behavior. 

[Neurochick]

19 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

AJ is foolish for walking right into the trap that production set out for him. The point of the group mini moons was that they wanted someone to lose their cool at the stupidity of the situation. And AJ obliged them with his terrible behavior. 

I disagree.  AJ isn't some poor little innocent lab rat.  Everybody knew they would be in the same house for the "mini moon."  AJ was the only one who chose to act batshit crazy.  

26 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Or AJ gets drunk and disorderly in a restaurant and they call the cops.  I am not kidding with these scenarios.  I now see that AJ is a powder keg just waiting to blow.

I can seriously see something like this happen, this or AJ starts a bar fight.  I still can't get over him slapping Luke's behind.  If he pulled something like that in a bar, he could get his ass kicked or worse.

[aphroditewitch]

1 minute ago, Neurochick said:

I disagree.  AJ isn't some poor little innocent lab rat.  Everybody knew they would be in the same house for the "mini moon."  AJ was the only one who chose to act batshit crazy.  

I never said he was innocent. But he did fall into a trap, you don't have to be innocent to fall into a trap. They were hoping someone would lose their hit and he did. Had he been smart, he would have prepared for the situation that he knew he would dislike and would have just dealt with it and played some cards. Instead he went into it with a bad attitude and a desire to piss the others off too. I don't think anyone was happy about the group mini moon but they handled better because losing their shit was not going to do them any favors. 

[Neurochick]

5 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

I never said he was innocent. But he did fall into a trap, you don't have to be innocent to fall into a trap. They were hoping someone would lose their hit and he did. Had he been smart, he would have prepared for the situation that he knew he would dislike and would have just dealt with it and played some cards. Instead he went into it with a bad attitude and a desire to piss the others off too. I don't think anyone was happy about the group mini moon but they handled better because losing their shit was not going to do them any favors. 

You may have a point because we've seen AJ be disrespectful to production.  Maybe this was Production's way of teaching him a lesson.

[riff-raff]

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I don't know if it's brain damage from his accident or whatever, but the way his eyes roll around in his head makes me scared for Stephanie now.

Not sure either what the cause of his sudden rage and mood swings is, but what I saw last episode would be an absolute deal-breaker for me.   I was rooting for this relationship to make it before, but not any more.   

[Starlight925]

I've been with "explosive temper" guy, and trust me, it gets no better for Steph.  It goes from super fun, sweet, great guy to screaming at the top of his lungs at something in a flash.  And it will turn on her, make no mistake.  That's the pattern, and I lived it.  We all see the warning sirens for her.  She's like this frightened cat, too afraid to startle him.  I was that frightened cat, so I know her look all too well.

[Yeah No]

On 3/16/2019 at 12:03 PM, Lellend said:

I really encourage you to research the limitations of MBTI and it’s alternatives, as there are better options to be used as “tools” for that subject matter. MBTI is not a whole lot more reliable than a horoscope, and disregards some very important factors in human behavior. I would strongly question using MBTI as a factor in any decision-making process regarding relationships (i.e. assuming two people won’t work together due to their “types”). Personality should be viewed as a spectrum, not a binary system. 

- A mental health practitioner

Thank you, I am well educated in "mental health" myself and have a graduate degree in Counseling Psych. - Straight A's from a big name school, plus I am well read in all kinds of approaches and theories, so it's not like I don't know the limitations of the MBTI and other approaches - And I know enough to know that that's your opinion that it's no more reliable than a horoscope.  I know that the test results themselves are not as reliable as they should be, because they are dependent on the taker's self-knowledge and reading comprehension, which we all know are very fallible.  But Myers Briggs is about more than test results.  I have seen the theory itself bear itself out time and time again such as how clearly it is explaining the clash between Will and Jasmine.  Not all great insights into people and what makes them tick come from so-called "scientific evidence" (some of which I question as to how valid they really are).  A lot of valid insights come from the wisdom of some amazingly insightful people, like Carl Jung AND some of the amazingly insightful people on this board, most of whom have no advanced education or experience in Psychology yet have articulated exactly what Type tells me about the clash between Will and Jasmine.  And right now, that's more than enough "evidence" for me.

[Drogo]

What trash can did they look in to find these dudes? 

I had some hope for 1 or 2 but that's gone the way of AJ's sobriety and Luke's secrets.

Will - "Intellectual"- you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.  Also, your kissing game is weak AF.

AJ - Put down your bottle, and change your diaper. 

Keith - Getting a say in this marriage is not the same as getting a say in the goings-on of Kristine's uterus.

Luke - Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you.

[Yeah No]

On 3/16/2019 at 12:03 PM, Lellend said:

I really encourage you to research the limitations of MBTI and it’s alternatives, as there are better options to be used as “tools” for that subject matter. MBTI is not a whole lot more reliable than a horoscope, and disregards some very important factors in human behavior. I would strongly question using MBTI as a factor in any decision-making process regarding relationships (i.e. assuming two people won’t work together due to their “types”). Personality should be viewed as a spectrum, not a binary system. 

- A mental health practitioner

By the way, "spectrums" are arguably less "reliable" because there are too many degrees in a category to accurately pinpoint where on the spectrum a person falls.  So instead of being more reliable as a predictor, that can be less reliable than a forced choice between opposites.  I know that some things may not be an either/or proposition, but MBTI does not purport to establish degree or strength of preference, just preference and for that purpose forced choice is the best.  I don't expect most people to get this as it's pretty specific to PT theory and testing methods.  You are entitled to your opinion but I have a lot of valid reasons for adhering to mine.  Please don't put it down by equating Carl Jung with a "horoscope".

[Drogo]

Reminder:  We're here to talk about the show, not criticize other posters.

[Drogo]

17 hours ago, Neurochick said:

AJ was the only one who chose to act batshit crazy.  

And for hours.  You want to be disappointed when you walk in, fine.  But they got there at dinnertime and he kept that shit up until people went to bed.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

And for hours.  You want to be disappointed when you walk in, fine.  But they got there at dinnertime and he kept that shit up until people went to bed.

 

That shit took some stamina - I'll say that for him...