S08.E08: The Past and the Furious

[aphroditewitch]

8 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I have no idea what the contract says (though having seen other reality show contracts I can believe that the show looks out for itself) but I think Kate stays out of a desire for connection. I suspect she's feeling like she hasn't got much family since she recently stopped all contact with her father (which I don't think the show has gotten into at all, and IMO it's very significant) and she really wants to feel connected to something. I also think she's waiting for something to change, like "OK, we're living together now and spending a lot of time together, surely he's going to grow to love me," but that's a fool's errand. And she did say she was attracted to him from the get, so she might also be a little blinded by lust. (I don't find any of these men attractive. Keith is the best-looking of the four, IMO, but he doesn't really do it for me. I like Will's personality the best by far.) He's also sending mixed signals. If they're in bed cuddling and he's shirtless, I agree with her that it's not weird for her to try to kiss him. The mixed signals may be giving her hope.

I agree, Luke is sending mixed signals because that is part of his mind game. He will say something mean only to cover with a backhanded compliment. Very typical of abusers. I think she was attracted to him at the beginning but as the days have gone by and his cruelty has worsened, I think it has waned.

[Neurochick]

14 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

No wonder this woman Jasmine was still single.  I can see it now.  Not only does she berate Will, but she is constantly talking money.  A few weeks in and that’s all she’s talking about to everyone.  Money is not the answer to a happy marriage or who does what either.  You learn as you go along and help one another.  There is no set thing.

Jasmine wants to have her cake and eat it too.  She wants Will to pay all the bills but she doesn't want a traditional type marriage, where the man is head of the house and the wife takes his lead; Jasmine wants to be the head of the house, but she doesn't want to pay any of the bills.  I don't get her.

[Gem 10]

4 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I mean really.  puke is astonished that Kate gave him a 6 1/2 ?  Now I know for sure he’s nuts.

I meant “gave them” a 6 1/2.  Sorry.

[Ilovepie]

2 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Surpressed.  He’s probably knocking everything she does when they are at home.  He is reducing her to nothing.  This guy is a psycho.

I thought it was very telling when Dr. Pepper was talking about him and the best she could come up with was that Luke could be "very charming", but then said in the same sentence that he is a manipulator, swinging from cruel to nice. He is a sociopath.

[Gem 10]

3 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Jasmine wants to have her cake and eat it too.  She wants Will to pay all the bills but she doesn't want a traditional type marriage, where the man is head of the house and the wife takes his lead; Jasmine wants to be the head of the house, but she doesn't want to pay any of the bills.  I don't get her.

Spoiled Brat.

[Elizzikra]

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She was my hero in this episode with the way she stood up to him.

That and calling Luke an asshole in the Unfiltered discussion. I could have kissed her (and I don't swing that way).

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But isn’t it a little too soon to say Keith will always be like this?  Can’t he learn to be more considerate and helpful by his mistakes?  They have only been married three weeks.

I would have much preferred that Dr. Jessica get into this discussion with Keith and Kristine rather than the whole deadbeat father thing. Teach these people some pragmatic strategies for dealing with their differences. If Keith really cannot and will not cook - fine. He can do other stuff to get a meal on the table. But if Kristine takes on all the meal providing, Keith has to contribute to chores in other ways. There are hundreds of ways for couples to figure this stuff out and if they can't get there on their own, a good therapist can help them reach a compromise. But I guess talking through who's going to do the laundry, yard work (though they don't seem to have a yard), take out the garbage, cook, clean etc. isn't as sexy as a drunken father necessitating a 13-year old Keith taking on a designated driver role.

Quote

I think Kate stays out of a desire for connection. 

I agree. I think Kate really, really wants to be married and on paper, Luke checks all her boxes. I think she is desperate for a turn-the-corner moment when she and Luke become as happy and (seemingly) compatible as Stephanie and AJ. The reality of Luke just isn't outweighing the allure of her fantasy so far. I also think that Luke's mom absolutely knows that this marriage is doomed. Either Luke or his mother said something about how close they are; I'm sure they have talked and he has her convinced that Kate is a drunken predator who jumps him at every opportunity.

[Neurochick]

4 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Sounds to me like she is settling. She could do so much better than AJ. I just don't understand why she is single at 38 because she does seem like a great catch. 

I never can understand this "....can do so much better."  Where are these magical "betters?"  Everybody is imperfect, everybody has issues.  Keith might not be perfect, but maybe Kristine's ex was a cheater.  A lot of men with money don't feel the need to marry because they can have any woman they want.  A lot of men with money don't feel the need to be faithful because they can have any woman they want.  

[bichonblitz]

4 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I never can understand this "....can do so much better."  Where are these magical "betters?"  Everybody is imperfect, everybody has issues.  Keith might not be perfect, but maybe Kristine's ex was a cheater.  A lot of men with money don't feel the need to marry because they can have any woman they want.  A lot of men with money don't feel the need to be faithful because they can have any woman they want.  

I wasn't talking about Kristine and Keith. I was referring to AJ and Stephanie. Nobody should have to put up with moods and outbursts like that so yeah, she can do better. 

[Neurochick]

3 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I wasn't talking about Kristine and Keith. I was referring to AJ and Stephanie. Nobody should have to put up with moods and outbursts like that so yeah, she can do better. 

I was also referring to AJ and Stephanie.  I used Kristine and Keith only as an example as to what a person might have to deal with.   There are a lot of things nobody should have to put up with, but people do because nobody's perfect in this life.  Everybody has something wrong, some issue about them.

2 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I agree with everything you say.  He had an alcoholic absent father and was brought up by good women who compensated.  Than God for these women or he would have been in the streets.  He’s on the right path while working and going to school to be in the medical field.  If he loves Kristene, he will learn to do things to make her happy.  He’s not a bad guy .. there are much worse.  Cooking is the least of their problems.

I agree.  It's like, in real life people aren't perfect.  The only person this season who really bothers me is Luke because I think he's just a nasty prick.   Everybody else on this show has issues, but they're no where near as nasty as Luke.

[Soup333]

21 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Jasmine wants to have her cake and eat it too.  She wants Will to pay all the bills but she doesn't want a traditional type marriage, where the man is head of the house and the wife takes his lead; Jasmine wants to be the head of the house, but she doesn't want to pay any of the bills.  I don't get her.

I wonder if Jasmine even gets herself. It makes no sense. 

I kinda feel like the aunt and uncle know she’s a spoiled princess because the aunt apologized before telling her to listen to Will because he’d be the head of the house. Why apologize if she knew Jasmine would be open to the concept? 

And then Jasmine felt betrayed because she wanted aunt and uncle to be on her side. She’s completely ridiculous and a walking contradiction. 

[Gem 10]

16 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I never can understand this "....can do so much better."  Where are these magical "betters?"  Everybody is imperfect, everybody has issues.  Keith might not be perfect, but maybe Kristine's ex was a cheater.  A lot of men with money don't feel the need to marry because they can have any woman they want.  A lot of men with money don't feel the need to be faithful because they can have any woman they want.  

I think you are so right.  I don’t know any betters.  Ricky Bobby, maybe, but he just might blow up one day.  Out of all my friends, my husband and I are the only ones still married.  They all wanted better, but got worse.  Most are on their second and third marriages.  You know what you have, if he’s decent, you don’t know what you will get.  To me, talking about cooking and dishes is petty.  That can be fixed.    Abuse, alcoholics, disrespect, cheating are issues to be addressed.

[dirtypop90]

These "experts" paired two women from good families with two men from broken homes (to keep it polite).  This almost never works in real life without a lot of therapy (based on the relationships I've known with this dynamic).  I've seen it work in reverse, though.  There's no way Keith and Will can meet Kristine and Jasmine's expectations without substantial help, when they don't even know where to start.  I just don't think in this situation (marrying two people at first sight) women should be paired with men who have no clue how to be husbands or what expectations are in a marriage (and I'm talking bare minimum expectations).  Everyone rags on Jasmine for her standards, ignoring the fact that Will doesn't state his expectations because he probably doesn't know anything about marriage.

Disclaimer: I say all this as a woman who grew up raised by a single parent.  I didn't grow up with money issues.  BUT I can admit I have no clue what goes on in marriage, what a husband/wife should and should not do, and what happens when two people disagree about important stuff because I don't know; momma paid all the bills and made all the decisions.  My only example was my grandparents' parents marriage, who were several decades in when I came into the world, so my expectations for marriage are likely outdated. So I also don't think anyone should marry me off at first sight. lol  

Edited February 20, 2019 by dirtypop90

[discoprincessthe2]

17 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

I think you are so right.  I don’t know any betters.  Ricky Bobby, maybe, but he just might blow up one day.  Out of all my friends, my husband and I are the only ones still married.  They all wanted better, but got worse.  Most are on their second and third marriages.  You know what you have, if he’s decent, you don’t know what you will get.  To me, talking about cooking and dishes is petty.  That can be fixed.    

The impression I got is that Keith didn't seem willing to fix things. He has said repeatedly that he can't cook, and he doesn't really want (to learn how) to cook. He said some slick comment about the amount of dishes he has to do, even though that was something he could handle. Plus, it's been established that he, as the only male grandson, was spoiled by his grandmother and other female relatives while he was growing up, so he's used to having this stuff done for him. I can see why Kristine feels frustrated.

Quote

These "experts" paired two women from good families with two men from broken homes (to keep it polite).  This almost never works in real life without a lot of therapy (based on the relationships I've known with this dynamic).  I've seen it work in reverse, though.  There's no way Keith and Will can meet Kristine and Jasmine's expectations without substantial help, when they don't even know where to start.  I just don't think in this situation (marrying two people at first sight) women should be paired with men who have no clue how to be husbands or what expectations are in a marriage (and I'm talking bare minimum expectations).  Everyone rags on Jasmine for her standards, ignoring the fact that Will doesn't state his expectations because he probably doesn't know anything about marriage.

I remember Jepthe mentioning that since his father was a rolling stone, he got his impressions about what makes up a happy marriage from The Cosby Show. That should have been a red flag to the experts.

I don't think that Will being raised by a single parent would render him unable to be a decent spouse. He seems to be mature enough to be married. While Keith may not have had someone in the household to model what a functional marriage would look like, the fact that the female members in his family have been catering to him his entire life is the more significant problem.

Edited February 20, 2019 by discoprincessthe2

[Crazy Bird Lady]

3 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

Pepper speaking out was not enough.  They should take action, but noooo, they're like everything for the show while waving the contract.  Just despicable.  What if she got depressed enough to commit suicide?  It's not out of the realm of possible; I've heard of things like that happening.  They have a responsibility to her and they're not taking it.

If she committed suicide, Kate's family might file a lawsuit against the show --and MAFS can't afford to take a huge financial hit. You'd think the 'experts' would be telling production that...

3 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

The ratings were not of their partner but of THEMSELVES, so Kate rated herself a 6.5.  Poor thing is so depressed she's probably blaming herself for this mess.

Puke's mom saw that in Kate. Like or hate her, Puke's mom is a perceptive person. I think she knew her son is a manipulator and could be disastrous for a vulnerable young "bride".  I think she wanted to help Kate see that she (Kate) was doing her best, and therefore Kate shouldn't "blame" herself when it inevitably "doesn't work out".

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

The show could have stopped production on Luke and Kate and not aired their story. And they could have brought in real therapists to speak to Kate. But they just sat there and watched the abuse unfold. They may not have been able to force a divorce but they could have stopped enabling the abuse. 

You'd think. They already had three couples without them! 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Gem 10]

8 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

These "experts" paired two women from good families with two men from broken homes (to keep it polite).  This almost never works in real life without a lot of therapy (based on the relationships I've known with this dynamic).  I've seen it work in reverse, though.  There's no way Keith and Will can meet Kristine and Jasmine's expectations without substantial help, when they don't even know where to start.  I just don't think in this situation (marrying two people at first sight) women should be paired with men who have no clue how to be husbands or what expectations are in a marriage (and I'm talking bare minimum expectations).  Everyone rags on Jasmine for her standards, ignoring the fact that Will doesn't state his expectations because he probably doesn't know anything about marriage.

Disclaimer: I say all this as a woman who grew up raised by a single parent.  I didn't grow up with money issues.  BUT I can admit I have no clue what goes on in marriage, what a husband/wife should and should not do, and what happens when two people disagree about important stuff because I don't know; momma paid all the bills and made all the decisions.  My only example was my grandparents' parents marriage, who were several decades in when I came into the world, so my expectations for marriage are likely outdated. So I also don't think anyone should marry me off at first sight. lol  

No matter how many years you go out with a guy, you don’t know what they are like until you live with them.  Then, all the flaws come out.  That’s vice versa.

[dirtypop90]

3 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

No matter how many years you go out with a guy, you don’t know what they are like until you live with them.  Then, all the flaws come out.  That’s vice versa.

At least you can discuss expectations and get to a space of compromise before saying I do.  I agree you have no clue what people are actually like until living with them, but you can do that too before marriage, which a lot of people do these days.

[bichonblitz]

52 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I was also referring to AJ and Stephanie.  I used Kristine and Keith only as an example as to what a person might have to deal with.   There are a lot of things nobody should have to put up with, but people do because nobody's perfect in this life.  Everybody has something wrong, some issue about them.

I do get what you are saying. Of course nobody is perfect. My issue with AJ is that I get a bit of a verbal abusive tone with him. He snaps, he's nasty, then he apologizes. It's a pattern. I just don't go for nasty. Stephanie works hard to not rock the boat. That could be exhausting after a while. 

Edited to add: I would much rather deal with someone who didn't pick up his socks or put the toilet seat down than walk on eggshells in my own home in order to keep the peace. It all depends on what your personal threshold for tolerance is. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by bichonblitz

[bichonblitz]

4 hours ago, configdotsys said:

AJ ruins his talking head by throwing in “…and I get what I ask for.” Stephanie’s right about one thing: she’d be empty without AJ… therefore she’ll stay and put up with this dagger jabs. So AJ was in a motocycle accident that scared him to death so he turns into what he calls someone who smiles all the time and enjoys life when in reality he’s a pissy little diva that throws a tantrum when he doesn’t get what he wants.

This....is what I'm talking about!

[red12]

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

But isn’t it a little too soon to say Keith will always be like this?  Can’t he learn to be more considerate and helpful by his mistakes?  They have only been married three weeks.

He can learn just like anyone else can. But, he is 29 not 19.

Generally a person will not stop doing a thing, even if it's perceived as negative, when it works for them. So far, it appears Keith's refusal to do anything he doesn't want to do has been effective. In addition, a therapist telling him it's totally not his fault and his tired wife needs to be more patient and understanding on national tv probably isn't going to turn his narrative to a more grown up place either.

[Brooklynista]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Jasmine wants to have her cake and eat it too.  She wants Will to pay all the bills but she doesn't want a traditional type marriage, where the man is head of the house and the wife takes his lead; Jasmine wants to be the head of the house, but she doesn't want to pay any of the bills.  I don't get her.

Miss Jasmine is not going to get got.  Will is looking at the front door, he's just way more polite about it than Luke. 

[aphroditewitch]

25 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

These "experts" paired two women from good families with two men from broken homes (to keep it polite).  This almost never works in real life without a lot of therapy (based on the relationships I've known with this dynamic).  I've seen it work in reverse, though.  There's no way Keith and Will can meet Kristine and Jasmine's expectations without substantial help, when they don't even know where to start.  I just don't think in this situation (marrying two people at first sight) women should be paired with men who have no clue how to be husbands or what expectations are in a marriage (and I'm talking bare minimum expectations).  Everyone rags on Jasmine for her standards, ignoring the fact that Will doesn't state his expectations because he probably doesn't know anything about marriage.

I feel like I have not seen enough from Will to make that determination. Jasmine and Will were so stuck on the financial stuff, that it seems like they didn't talk about anything else, which was probably not the case. The show has probably made them more boring than they are. 

In general this season is missing the partner activities that previous seasons had. I remember a couple from seasons ago going to a Paint and Sip for example. This season is just not giving the audience anything to go on.

[dirtypop90]

4 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

I feel like I have not seen enough from Will to make that determination. Jasmine and Will were so stuck on the financial stuff, that it seems like they didn't talk about anything else, which was probably not the case. The show has probably made them more boring than they are. 

In general this season is missing the partner activities that previous seasons had. I remember a couple from seasons ago going to a Paint and Sip for example. This season is just not giving the audience anything to go on.

Fair, I guess.  I definitely think the producers keep prodding them to talk about finances because they know it's an issue.  I've been assuming Will and Jasmine get so little air time because they are boring and/or stagnant.  I just don't see why they would be cutting good stuff, if they had anything on camera.   I feel like I still don't know what Will is looking for in a wife.  Actually, I feel like I don't know him at all.   I don't know if it's editing or Will just keep his cards close to his chest.  I guess during the reunion, if they split, they will spell out all the reasons.

[dirtypop90]

46 minutes ago, discoprincessthe2 said:

I don't think that Will being raised by a single parent would render him unable to be a decent spouse. He seems to be mature enough to be married. While Keith may not have had someone in the household to model what a functional marriage would look like, the fact that the female members in his family have been catering to him his entire life is the more significant problem.

I'm certainly not saying Will could not be a decent spouse, ever, just that I don't see how he could flourish in this situation--marrying a complete stranger.  Will and Keith probably need to date and live with a woman for a good amount of time before even thinking of saying "I do" and possibly also therapy.  I think, for this show, you need emotionally healthy people from stable environments, who have seen functional marriages, for the experiment to work.  The rest of us need more work before we can get married. JMO

[Soup333]

55 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

Everyone rags on Jasmine for her standards, ignoring the fact that Will doesn't state his expectations because he probably doesn't know anything about marriage. 

How do we know this? Has Will said anything remotely alluding to his perceived lack of knowledge? 

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

What action can they take, though? They can't force her to get divorced. They can recommend that she get divorced but they can't force her to file. Even real therapists can't do that. She's an adult. Jessica has said that she has counseled people not to remain in situations where their partners have been verbally abusive but if those patients tell her "No, I want to stay married," there's not much recourse for her. She can continue to recommend that they leave, give them tools for coping with their relationships as they are, and she and those patients can look at WHY these people want to stay married, but she can't force people to do anything. If there were violence I think the team would be mandated to report that to the police, but even then, it's up to the person to leave. People stay in abusive situations all the time.

I agree with this somewhat.  We don't live in a "nanny state."  No one can make you do something just because it's good for you.  Part of living in a "free country" is being free to fuck up; but that's in a real life situation.

However, it does kind of make me uncomfortable that the show is using Luke/Kate's non-relationship as entertainment.  I can see Kate starting to doubt herself, "maybe I'm not as great as I think I am, if my husband doesn't want me."  That's not entertainment, that's cruel.

[dirtypop90]

4 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

How do we know this? Has Will said anything remotely alluding to his perceived lack of knowledge? 

If you read my entire post, I mentioned Will being from a broken home.  He has discussed his background a few times, and it sounds like he did not grow up in a stable, two parent home.  Correct me if I missed something.  I admit I tune out at times.

Edited February 20, 2019 by dirtypop90

[Neurochick]

10 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

I'm certainly not saying Will could not be a decent spouse, ever, just that I don't see how he could flourish in this situation--marrying a complete stranger.  Will and Keith probably need to date and live with a woman for a good amount of time before even thinking of saying "I do" and possibly also therapy.  I think, for this show, you need emotionally healthy people from stable environments, who have seen functional marriages, for the experiment to work.  The rest of us need more work before we can get married. JMO

In that case, the show should go off the air because the applicant pool would be very, very small

Edited February 20, 2019 by Neurochick

[dirtypop90]

^^ Funny but I think Danielle and Bobby fall in that category.  I can't remember anything about Jamie 's and Doug's families.  I also think most of the people this season meet this criteria. Kristine & Jasmine could have been in successful pairings if the producers actually matched them better.  IMO

Edited February 20, 2019 by dirtypop90

[Soup333]

2 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

If you read my entire post, I mentioned Will being from a broken home.  He has discussed his background a few times, and it sounds like he did not grow up in a stable, two parent home.  Correct me if I missed something.  I admit I tune out at times.

Read it all. I’m asking if he said something like Jephte said about learning from television. 

For the record, I don’t think Jasmine understands marriage either. Outside of the fairytale (but conflicting) picture she has in her head.

[aphroditewitch]

15 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

Fair, I guess.  I definitely think the producers keep prodding them to talk about finances because they know it's an issue.  I've been assuming Will and Jasmine get so little air time because they are boring and/or stagnant.  I just don't see why they would be cutting good stuff, if they had anything on camera.   I feel like I still don't know what Will is looking for in a wife.  Actually, I feel like I don't know him at all.   I don't know if it's editing or Will just keep his cards close to his chest.  I guess during the reunion, if they split, they will spell out all the reasons.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I think Will said he had lived with an ex. But no details about why it did not work out. I actually feel like Will is willing to work with a spouse on relationship issues but the financial issues seems weak. Unless I missed it, we haven't seen them pull out monthly budgets and statements for this to be a continued conversation. 

[discoprincessthe2]

16 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

I'm certainly not saying Will could not be a decent spouse, ever, just that I don't see how he could flourish in this situation--marrying a complete stranger.  Will and Keith probably need to date and live with a woman for a good amount of time before even thinking of saying "I do" and possibly also therapy.  I think, for this show, you need emotionally healthy people from stable environments, who have seen functional marriages, for the experiment to work.  The rest of us need more work before we can get married. JMO

I believe during the move-in, Will did tell Jasmine he has lived with a woman before. 

8 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

If you read my entire post, I mentioned Will being from a broken home.  He has discussed his background a few times, and it sounds like he did not grow up in a stable, two parent home.  Correct me if I missed something.  I admit I tune out at times.

Will didn't grow up in a stable, two-parent home. It sounds like he grew up in a stable single-parent home. Actually, I don't remember many details about Will's family, point, blank, period. I don't know whether his father was even at the wedding. I believe his mother was. Other female family members were there too.

3 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

Read it all. I’m asking if he said something like Jephte said about learning from television. 

For the record, I don’t think Jasmine understands marriage either. Outside of the fairytale (but conflicting) picture she has in her head.

I wonder how Jasmine got these fairytale notions about marriage in her head, even though she's an independent woman with a master's degree. (It reminds me of an old joke I heard about a coed going to school to get an MRS degree. Disclaimer: I don't agree with or condone said joke.)

Edited February 20, 2019 by discoprincessthe2

[dirtypop90]

^^ Yes, I remember Will's father being absent. And Keith's too I guess, since he said something about Kristine meeting him for the first time this episode.

Some of the statements Jasmine made this episode made me believe Will didn't grow up in a stable environment.  I believe she said he found a home at the playground or something like that.

I don't think Jas has a fairytale in her head.  She's stated her expectations are based on her parents' marriage.

Edited February 20, 2019 by dirtypop90

[Neurochick]

17 minutes ago, discoprincessthe2 said:

Will didn't grow up in a stable, two-parent home. It sounds like he grew up in a stable single-parent home. Actually, I don't remember many details about Will's family, point, blank, period. I don't know whether his father was even at the wedding. I believe his mother was. Other female family members were there too.

There are plenty of people who grow up in unstable two parent homes.   There are people who grew up in stable homes with no parents, but with other relatives.  I think Jasmine has read too many romance novels and watched too many romcoms.  Jasmine's expectations are based on how she saw her parents' marriage and what she saw might not have been a reality.

[LuvMyShows]

13 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Parentified child theory excuse only works until you are a grown ass man. Stop blaming your Dad for your laziness.

4 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Kristine is cooking breakfast too? Keith can't pour himself some cereal or make some toast on his own?

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

But isn’t it a little too soon to say Keith will always be like this?  Can’t he learn to be more considerate and helpful by his mistakes?  They have only been married three weeks.

2 hours ago, SallySarue said:

Yeah, that was not ok that Dr. Jessica completely invalidated Kristine's LEGITIMATE feelings. This could've been a chance for a third party to open Keith's eyes and make him aware that he is being a crappy husband when it comes to household chores, but instead, she encouraged allowing this spoiled brat behavior because his daddy wasn't there for him. Wait a minute...what??!!  That seems like a huge stretch to me. Such BS. Now I'm frustrated for/with Kristine.

Yes to all, because this is what Dr. Jessica missed big time when she went for the lazy BS 'excuse' path and put all the burden on Kristine, rather than the 'explanation' path, which requires work, analysis, and responsibility.  An excuse is a legitimate reason for not doing something that was supposed to be done, and is time-limited ("I went to the ER unexpectedly and had my appendix removed, and that's why I missed work yesterday and will be out for the next few days.").  An explanation helps provide context for something not done, but doesn't remove the responsibility ("I stayed up too late last night, so that's why my test today wasn't very good.") and it can also be for something that is time-fluid.  The thing with Keith is absolutely not an excuse; instead, it has both the explanation characteristics because it provides context for why he feels the way he does about cooking/cleaning, but it doesn't remove the responsibility for him to share, and it is time-fluid because he will always have that formative experience with him as part of who he is.

What Dr. Jessica should have been teaching them, is how to work with the situation, given the explanation about Keith.  He doesn't know how to cook and wants Kristine to fix three meals a day for him?  OK, let's look at each of the three meals and figure out what steps can be taken to move Keith from being mired down to stepping up.  He complains about how many dirty dishes are involved for so little food?  OK, let's walk through a few simple meals, so that he can see that even with cooking something simple, multiple pots/pans/utensils could be involved, and at any rate, the cleaning time still doesn't approach the prep/cooking time.  He feels that being cooking for shows love?  OK, let's look at other ways that he feels love from a partner not a parent, and also how Kristine feels love.

To paraphrase that old parable, Dr. Jessica could have taught this couple how to fish together, and instead, she gave Keith a fish and let Kristine starve.

[SallySarue]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

(I'm one of those people who gets annoyed when people I just met announce "I'm a hugger!" and try to bypass the handshake. I don't know you like that!)

I would've been very uncomfortable with Luke's mom holding my hand like that. I wouldn't be able to concentrate on the conversation, because I'd be trying to figure out how to slither my hand out from under hers the whole time. That's just weird. And Kate doesn't seem like a touchy feely person who would do that kind of thing, so that makes it even worse. She basically just met this woman.

Uggghh...one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone announces "I'm a hugger!" That's proof right there that they acknowledge that hugging might not be the most appropriate gesture in that particular instance, but they really couldn't care less...they are going to do what makes THEM feel good, despite of how it makes the other person feel. It's basically like they are giving a warning to tell the recipient that they are getting a hug whether they like it or not...trying to justify their behavior in order to make themselves feel better about making the other person uncomfortable. This is so rude and self-absorbed. 

[humbleopinion]

Will learned to rattle a pot and a pan and cooks for himself...despite his absent dad.

Keith fell into the bosoms of his aunt, Mom and Mom-Mom to cook for him to sooth his hurt about his unreliable Dad.

Keith wants Kristine to be as comforting as Mom Mom by cooking, cleaning, cooking....

Kristine already experienced having to be the cook and maid for her ex....the controlling and getting taken for granted was the deal breaker....

Keith's incredulous face when Kristine mentions him cooking and cleaning up.... including all of pots and pans is the tell...Keith will never be able to do either...buh bye Keith.

Don't let the screen door slam on your lazy couch potato ass on your way out....

Edited February 20, 2019 by humbleopinion

[stuckin60s]

it appears to me as an older adult that Jasmine and Kristine are looking for someone to pay for all and let them be princesses.  whats the deal with three meals, are either one of them employed.

back to Kate, what a sad face.  She also needs to wear things that complement her figure

[humbleopinion]

How to deal with "Imma hugger types"

Say "Not with me you aren't" and take a giant step back.....

[stuckin60s]

also marriage is a partnership.  Each uses their best skills to join with the other.  No one should do more while the other sits on their butt

[Empress1]

3 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

OK, let's look at each of the three meals and figure out what steps can be taken to move Keith from being mired down to stepping up. 

It's just so weird to me to cook a full hot breakfast during the week. If Keith expects Kristine to pour his cereal for him, I don't know what to do. I don't cook breakfast most days, especially during the week. I don't have time. This morning I had oatmeal, prepared in the microwave. Takes literally two minutes. I often have green smoothies, also two minutes. I don't have time to make a short stack during the week (that always cracks me up on TV when parents ask their kids what they want for breakfast and the kids are eating, like, omelettes and waffles before they go off to school). Growing up, weekday breakfasts were cereal, toast, fruit, yogurt, that sort of thing. Both my parents worked; breakfasts had to be eaten quickly.

2 minutes ago, SallySarue said:

I would've been very uncomfortable with Luke's mom holding my hand like that. I wouldn't be able to concentrate on the conversation, because I'd be trying to figure out how to slither my hand out from under hers the whole time. That's just weird. And Kate doesn't seem like a touchy feely person who would do that kind of thing, so that makes it even worse. She basically just met this woman.

Uggghh...one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone announces "I'm a hugger!" That's proof right there that they acknowledge that hugging might not be the most appropriate gesture in that particular instance, but they really couldn't care less...they are going to do what makes THEM feel good, despite of how it makes the other person feel. It's basically like they are giving a warning to tell the recipient that they are getting a hug whether they like it or not...trying to justify their behavior in order to make themselves feel better about making the other person uncomfortable. This is so rude and self-absorbed. 

I have 100% said "I'm not," ducked out of hugging distance, and shaken the person's hand instead of hugging, especially when it's in a professional setting. Don't be hugging up on me at work! Also, I've noticed that people who are huggers rarely hug up on men. At my old job our account managers from agency of record would try to hug me but not my boss, who was a VP and male (big burly guy). HE got a handshake. 

I'd have taken my hand away from Luke's mom's, probably instinctively.

[aphroditewitch]

3 minutes ago, stuckin60s said:

it appears to me as an older adult that Jasmine and Kristine are looking for someone to pay for all and let them be princesses.  whats the deal with three meals, are either one of them employed.

How is Kristine like that at all? She has a career and even said that she didn't want to change her last name after getting married because of her career. I honestly think Kristine wants a true partner, someone who will pamper her but also someone who she can pamper as well. 

[LuvMyShows]

One organization I've heard of is trying to address the hugging thing at its conventions, by having hugging dots.  You put colored stickers on your name tag to show your hugging preference:

A red dot indicates that a person does not wish to be hugged.

A yellow dot indicates that a person wishes to be asked first before being hugged.

A green dot indicates that a person wishes to be hugged.

Various combinations of colored dots can express subtle or complex preferences, like "no most of the time, but maybe yes occasionally" (a red dot with a crescent of yellow or green sticking out beneath it).  The person wearing hugging dots still retains full rights over his or her own body which can result in changing their mind in particular cases, such as red-dotted persons hugging a close friend when they meet, and green-dotted people declining a hug from somebody they regard as "creepy".

[humbleopinion]

 Sporting a Mr. Yuk Means No! Stay Away! sticker on my name tag....

https://www.pinterest.com/beldenben/mr-yuk/

[2727]

4 hours ago, CousinOliver said:

I’m kind of aghast at Jessica for saying that the food was healing Keith, basically just encouraging Kristine to keep it up?

The experts have a bullshit habit of telling the spouse who's being trampled on in some way to try harder, stick with it, be patient, etc.

• Being ignored, given the cold shoulder, not allowed to touch your spouse: "Don't rush. Give it time."
• Your spouse loses their temper and calls you names: "Try to understand where they're coming from and be more flexible."
• Your spouse has pets you're afraid of: "You'll get used to it."
• You disagree with your spouse about financial, emotional, and recreational decisions: "You need to compromise and balance him/her out."
• Your spouse lies about everything, including an outstanding criminal warrant: "We didn't know. Be more supportive."

[lu1535]

1 hour ago, dirtypop90 said:

I can't remember anything about Jamie 's and Doug's families. 

Doug was from a decent family while Jamie's was totally messed up and broken.

Jasmine got her 1950 vision of marriage from watching her parents and listening to Aunt Susie. Aunt Susie outright told her to listen to the man because he pays the bills. I bet Jasmine hasn't had the opportunity to think of what marriage is like in the 21st century because she's been surrounded by women spouting the old ways.

I so dearly wanted Luke and Kate to visit Kate's family. I wonder if jilted mom would be able to see thru Puke's shenanigans.

[Ilovepie]

2 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

Kristine & Jasmine could have been in successful pairings if the producers actually matched them better.

I think it remains to be seen if Kristine/Keith will be successful; based on her and Keith's vibe on Unfiltered, I think they do make it, at least until Unfiltered was filmed. As for Jasmine, I don't think anyone would be successful with her because of her attitude. She is unwilling to compromise. I just don't think that works on this show, with the exception of Ricky Bobby and Danielle, and that's because he was so besotted with her.......

I think it's ironic that Kristine came with the nickname "Queen" because in reality Jasmine has been the one to act like an entitled princess.......

[PerfectlyObvious]

I rarely post, but I am so riled up after watching this latest episode, that here is my take on Luke and Kate… 

After last night’s show, I am firmly believing that Luke-da-Puke did this whole thing as one of his get-rich-quick schemes.  He thought it would be funny to go on this show as a way to make a quick $10k, get a freebie vacation, promote his speed-dating stuff, have a few laughs with his buddies, and after a short eight weeks, he would be on his merry hipster way. 

I am sure he told his mom of his plans, and while she was not pleased, she went along with it because that “darn young Luke” would always come up with these silly arrangements, like selling sand from the beach.  Hence, her foreboding “mockery of marriage” statement when it all became very real at the wedding.  From the social media posting bull-poopery that is coming to light (re: fake accounts making fun of the other couples – see the spoiler thread), his buddies all seemed to be in on the score. 

The problem with his plan, however, is that Luke never gave a single thought to how the person he was matched to would feel.  And now, his mother, knowing in advance that this was a dishonorable scheme from the start, feels badly that this kind and gentle soul, which is hopeful Kate, is being set up to be hurt.  She realizes that her son's actions and deeds have deeply impacted an unsuspecting someone who did not deserve to be involved in his stupid and disgusting scheme.

What little morality he has left makes it hard for Luke to kiss Kate, or go further, and he must continue to lie and manipulate to cover his original intent to “scam the show”.  I realize, we only see an edited version of the couples, but given that this is what has been shown, I can only imagine the stuff that we are not viewing.                                                                                                                                             

I concur with Kristine on Unfiltered, “He is an asshole”.  Kate, I hope you get out of this sham of a marriage and find someone kind and deserving.  And, fix your hair once in a while.

Oops! Sorry to the thread moderators, I now realize I should have put my comments into the speculation thread.  However, to my defense, it is factual, and not speculative, that Luke is an ass.

Edited February 20, 2019 by PerfectlyObvious
My bad.

[potatochips]

7 hours ago, Drogo said:

I was so annoyed watching Luke's mom force Kate to handhold her while she was emotionally-stabbing her in the ear.  I could think of so many better responses than Kate's to Luke's Mom's question of "What's The Absolute Least you were hoping to get out of this?"

A good story for my kids
Friendship
An experience
For Lenscrafters to stop making your hideous blue frames
An ounce of human decency from someone who's supposed to be my husband
For other parents to do a better job than the shit one you did with Luke, thanks for nothing Mom
Not to have wasted weeks of my life with someone who shit-talks me to random camera-people
A father-in-law who doesn't walk around barefoot when his new daughter-in-law comes over for the 1st time
For you to take that fucking tinsel out of your hair because you're not fucking Ke$ha

Amen. Luke's mom was hateful and she did not deserve a nice answer. I see the Apple does not fall far from the tree. There will never be a girl good enough for her boy. I pity any girl who marries him in the future as this relationship is likely to be over at season's end.

[LilaFowler]

7 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

I found Luke's mom to be super creepy. Especially the weird way she took Kate's hand while talking to her. His mom knows what type of person her son is but doesn't care. She probably blamed all his ex-girlfriends when those relationships inevitably failed because her son is such a douche.

I think we see where Luke learned his manipulative ways. Mommy was so proud and delighted to tell that story about Luke selling sand from the beach.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Nobody should have to put up with moods and outbursts like that so yeah, she can do better. 

I don't know - for some people that's not a big deal. It would drive me nuts but everyone has their own standards for what they can live with. I agree that there are some things that no one should have to tolerate but Stephanie may feel that moodiness and outbursts aren't as big a deal as say, someone who let's tension build and then carries a grudge. AJ does at least seem to have the ability to have things blow over and I don't see evidence that he holds a grudge.

Quote

 lazy couch potato ass

I don't see Keith as lazy. He works four nights a week and he goes to school. I worked full time and went to school part-time for four years. You can't do it if you're lazy. I lived alone when I did it so I had to attend to basic needs but my house wasn't as clean or organized as I would have liked; I ate much more take out and prepared food and seldom cooked (which I love to do) and laundry got done at the last minute. I'm not saying Kristine is responsible for all the household chores but I don't think it's accurate to characterize Keith as lazy. If they would but a little energy and thought into advanced food prep and could afford someone to do housework every other week that would solve most of their division-of-household-labor issues.

Quote

 I don't have time to make a short stack during the week (that always cracks me up on TV when parents ask their kids what they want for breakfast and the kids are eating, like, omelettes and waffles before they go off to school). Growing up, weekday breakfasts were cereal, toast, fruit, yogurt, that sort of thing. Both my parents worked; breakfasts had to be eaten quickly.

I seldom ate breakfast until I got married. I'm not a morning person but my husband is. He makes breakfast for me most days (pancakes today but it was a snow day)! Insider tip - you can make a bunch of pancakes when you have time and reheat them in the microwave or toaster when you are short on time. But yeah - if it were on me to provide breakfast, we'd start the day with granola bars and maybe cereal on a good day.