S16.E13: She

[scorpio1031]

I thought they had found a body in the rubble of Ziva's farmhouse???

I wonder if the show is ending and this is a way to provide closure of some type by bringing Ziva back, as well as, Tony.  However, the actress did leave kind of abruptly and TPTB weren't happy.  Plus, with all the publicity regarding MW, would they bring him back. 

Has Senior shown up yet this season?  

[Lipush]

Great episode.

Funny but what I mostly felt touched and shook about were Ziva's inner thoughts, as were written in her journal. Being Israeli and Jewish, here they are, translated-

"It's all happening quickly, all at once. I'm afraid to think what's real and prefer to ignore this reality. I hear the words and I cannot move, cannot breathe."

She keeps writing- "I must not show just how unstable I am. To the outside world I'm strong and peaceful, though my body and soul are at pieces."

On the next page she writes something unclear, which may refer to ncis or something she even writes from Israel, but she refers to 'her people'-

"We're finally here together, though our best were taken away from us. It's sorrow that ties us together."

She writes about Eli, as well-

"Abba educated us quickly. Cruely. He nevigated us to a destiny he already planned out. Could my way have been different? His way could have been my own- I would not have changed it much. He could have been a doctor or business man, but his calling... That's why we're here today."

When Eli David came to Israel for the first time in years she wrote- "I'm happy he's here. It makes me feel safer in this unprotected environment... He told me...(continuation unclear)..."

The most important thing she wrote though was:

"Secrets... We all have them, and we're good at hiding them underneath many layers. Abba told me once that it's impossible to really know someone, to know all their secrets. It may be the truest thing he ever told me."

Edited February 16, 2019 by Lipush

[threebluestars]

That is some great prop/set dec work on that journal!

Honestly, Ziva faking her death reads true to me. I see her justifying it very, very easily, just like keeping Tony's kid from him. Her first episode act is to protect Gibbs by murdering her own half brother, so yeah, can totally see her hiding a child and then faking her own death (and justifying that now Tony gets Tali and she has to stay away as being punishment/compensation for her actions).

[MDL]

I'm confused: did those notebooks contain Ziva's notes about her first case, this case, or every case she worked on throughout her time at NCIS, or even before?

Also-she obviously returned to the "secret office" during the time frame of this case, but how did she know about the discovery of her secret office? ( I'd guess the lady who owned it called her) ???

[Raja]

7 minutes ago, MDL said:

I'm confused: did those notebooks contain Ziva's notes about her first case, this case, or every case she worked on throughout her time at NCIS, or even before?

Also-she obviously returned to the "secret office" during the time frame of this case, but how did she know about the discovery of her secret office? ( I'd guess the lady who owned it called her) ???

Every case 

[HurricaneVal]

Oh, don't get me wrong.  I still like the show or I wouldn't watch it.  This was just a bad, disjointed episode out of the blue where nothing made sense, the characters weren't acting like themselves, and the "WTF" factor was high.  And the one thing that I really like about this show was completely missing:  random character moments that demonstrate there is a depth of backstory between these people we watch for an hour every week or so.

[Sake614]

On 2/15/2019 at 2:26 PM, HurricaneVal said:

Yeah, MW has another show now, but it is a CBS show, so it isn't like he couldn't just walk across the lot (or whatever)

A bit more problematic than that since bull films in NYC and NCIS in LA. But I do agree with the larger point about him popping in once in a while just to say hello. I’d like that a lot.

[SG11]

I returned to watch this episode given the Ziva storyline. I haven’t watched it since that goofball took over for Abby, who admittedly, was getting a little stale. Goth in 2018 is not cutting edge, kids. Neither are tattoos. But her replacement... unwatchable.

So I come back and see: 1. Gibbs, looking remarkably older and not interesting. What happened? 2. McGee looking like he joined the Dad Bod in 30 days Club. Yikes, Tim. And 3. Bishop... what happened to Bishop? She looks like her own older sister. Her hair is half brown. Is there a storyline to explain the remarkable change in her... and others?

I will say I’ve always hated Palmer so much, and he seemed more mature.

And nitwit gives Torres an empty jar? With no reason? And he puts water in it?

And for those who hate Ziva so much because of the impossibleness of her character. C’mon, this show has never had any interest in reality. They felt the need to try to keep up with Criminal Minds so they had their Medical Examiner take a course someplace and he’s suddenly a qualified “Profiler.” Jake comes in, supposedly in an “Agent” job title like everyone else... except she’s some kind of Doc and has a private office. This stuff has defied stupid for years.

Not that I’m crazy over Ziva. I loved her skills and lack of use of contractions and funny misuse of English expressions, but I’ve always pined for Kate.

So, is there a reason Bishop looks like that? Why hire Emily Wickersham and make her look like a nobody at the mall?

[Sake614]

I like EW’s hair. That’s about the only part of the character I like. What is with this whole ‘I’m the one who lost out because Ziva’s dead’ bullshit? ‘She should be here teaching me!’ Um yeah okay. Know who else probably wishes she were around? Her daughter, her lover. Her FRIENDS! Of which you were none. You never met the woman. Probably never heard of her until you took over her desk. What is with this entitlement?

i also think Mcghee looks 1000 times better with a ‘dad bod’ than he ever did as a walking skeleton. My complaint is that he’s never used! It seems like he’s just there as filler for bishop and Torres, the resident toddlers. 

I used to love this show. And mark Harmon. Now I wonder why I keep watching. 😢

[Katy M]

14 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

What is with this whole ‘I’m the one who lost out because Ziva’s dead’ bullshit? ‘She should be here teaching me!’ Um yeah okay.

That bugged me, too.  She never met Ziva.  Why does she think Ziva can teach her something McGee or Gibbs can't?  Because she's a woman?  That's a bunch of BS, IMO.  I'd probably give her that argument if Ziva were the first ever federal agent and Bishop were the second, but not even close.  If they'd have given the Bishop stuff to McGee, I think it may have worked better.  He had an actual personal connection. But, I still hate back from the dead stories.

Especially nonsensical ones.  Maybe it's not so nonsensical that she faked her death to keep her family safe.  I can handle that.  But, in order to have been there right when all this was going down, it seems to me she had to be hiding in DC all this time. How else did she know they were about to close this case?  And, why would keeping an eye on this case (or any of the others she was journaling about) be more important than keeping an eye on her daughter? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, Sake614 said:

Know who else probably wishes she were around? Her daughter, her lover.

Did she have one when she supposedly "died"?  Because she and Tony weren't lovers when that happened. Hadn't been for over a year.

[Clanstarling]

On 2/15/2019 at 9:05 PM, scorpio1031 said:

I thought they had found a body in the rubble of Ziva's farmhouse???

And they found a body in the car of the abducted woman (well, partially burned remains, if I recall correctly). So, apparently there are lots of disposable bodies around to fake deaths. (though at least they had a good explanation why the abductors would have access to a body).

Don't care about Ziva and never did. But <shrugs> I'm fairly easy. Characters come and go and generally I'm okay with most of them. Ziva's the last one I actively disliked. (if memory serves, which it might not be doing).

This was a pretty disjointed episode and people, primarily Ellie, made stupid decisions (going without backup seems to happen a lot in these types of shows). And sadly, Harmon is really showing his age, in both his features and voice. But, he's my husband's age, so it's not like it diminishes his appeal to me. 😉

[LuvMyShows]

10 hours ago, Katy M said:

But, in order to have been there right when all this was going down, it seems to me she had to be hiding in DC all this time. How else did she know they were about to close this case?  And, why would keeping an eye on this case (or any of the others she was journaling about) be more important than keeping an eye on her daughter? 

This is the part that really defies logic.

[eel2178]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 2:45 PM, Tony Dickson said:

She bought a guitar every time she killed somebody?

😉

She had to rent herself a secret office in order to store all of them.

[kassygreene]

The secret space thing is something I have seen before connected to Mossad agents (I can't remember why, but one instance involved switching cars and blowing up the old one).  The usual silliness (not waiting for backup, etc) is the usual silliness, so <shrug>.  Someone finally calling BS on a rule is new; Gibbs finding the written version and burning it is evolutionary for the character; but what gets me the most is:

I find this to be, hands down, the best Ziva episode EVER. 

Seriously, I was never a Ziva fan, she was too perfect, too incessantly indulged in her rule-breaking (Gibbs telling her to stay in Israel is now my second favorite Ziva episode), and too clearly a case of Showrunner FanGirling.  As I recall, Ziva was supposed to be a limited run, but apparently TPTB fell in Twu Luv and made the character permanent. 

(Other examples of Showrunner FanGirling: 1) Vala Mal Doran on Stargate-SG1 - yes, Claudia Black is fabulous and she handled everything she was given, but it had been an ensemble; 2) Clara the Impossible Girl on Doctor Who.  I actually like the Impossible Girl, but when they decided to keep going and turned her into the Insufferable Brat, it stopped being good storytelling AND turned Peter Capaldi's Doctor into a supporting character on his own program.)

So, for the first time in many episodes, I didn't fast-forward At All.

Edited February 20, 2019 by kassygreene

[QASteph]

Quote

By the way, I was wondering last night, it is common for people who are pregnant to sign up to join the Navy (or any armed service)?  

and 

Quote

When my friend joined the navy, she had to prove she wasn't pregnant before they let her in.

When my nephew joined there was a sizable lag between when he signed up with the recruiter and when he went off to boot camp.  Also, the date he would be leaving changed at least once that I can recall.  I can see someone being not-pregnant when signing papers at a recruiting office but pregnant shortly thereafter before heading to boot camp. 

Not sure if someone would have to delay and start much later in that case or if they would be kicked out entirely.  Assuming they did not knowingly lie when being recruited - fairly certain that would be disqualifying.

[SG11]

The only thing you like about Bishop is her recently terrible hair? She looks like she’s too poor to take care of her mousy color growing out.

But yeah, I forgot about Bishops ridiculous entitlement over “not being able to learn from Ziva.” What?  You didn’t get to learn from Kate either. 

Or, uh, George Washington.

[Mrs. Stanwyck]

Quote

But, in order to have been there right when all this was going down, it seems to me she had to be hiding in DC all this time. How else did she know they were about to close this case?

I assumed that Ziva wasn't necessarily hanging out in DC but that she heard about the case after the Sheriff's office went on TV and talked about the case.  After that, she came to DC to find out what was going on.  Not sure if that means she was in the US, close enough to see local news or if she has some program that scours websites looking for certain names.  Any way, they made such a big deal about Gibbs being pissed about the press conference that I figured it was explain how Ziva found out.

Also, I can see why she wouldn't want Tony to know she was alive.  1) safety concerns for the family, 2), would Tony really sit back and not do anything to eliminate the threats to her and 3), its not fair to tell Tony and expect him to lie to their daughter every day.  

[valen]

On 2/17/2019 at 6:42 AM, Sake614 said:

I like EW’s hair. That’s about the only part of the character I like. What is with this whole ‘I’m the one who lost out because Ziva’s dead’ bullshit? ‘She should be here teaching me!’ Um yeah okay. Know who else probably wishes she were around? Her daughter, her lover. Her FRIENDS! Of which you were none. You never met the woman. Probably never heard of her until you took over her desk. What is with this entitlement?

i also think Mcghee looks 1000 times better with a ‘dad bod’ than he ever did as a walking skeleton. My complaint is that he’s never used! It seems like he’s just there as filler for bishop and Torres, the resident toddlers. 

I used to love this show. And mark Harmon. Now I wonder why I keep watching. 😢

THIS! It was such stupid motivation and it made me angry. She should have told GIbbs. She should tell Gibbs now. She won't though because she is dumb. I didn't her character at first. Remember when she sat on the floor and ate junk food and was an analyst? Now, she's morphed into just another agent. She makes the show worse for me.

ETA: I assume that Tony knows that she is alive and that they are together. That's why they called him and couldn't get him and he never called back.

Edited February 18, 2019 by valen

[eel2178]

3 hours ago, valen said:

 I assume that Tony knows that she is alive and that they are together. That's why they called him and couldn't get him and he never called back.

I think DiNozzo knows she is alive, but she is still in hiding. He and Tali are hanging out in Paris because he thinks that is where Ziva will finally connect with him when she feels it is safe.

[Welcome5431]

On 2/15/2019 at 9:05 PM, scorpio1031 said:

I thought they had found a body in the rubble of Ziva's farmhouse???

akin to how Breen County found this  COTW"s victim's remains in a vehicle a decade ago. Lily's mom resurfaced too.

I am going to look for Gibbs' Rule 40

Edited February 21, 2019 by Welcome5431

[mythoughtis]

Ziva never ever had thoughts like those that filled the journals. She was an extremely pragmatic individual. She killed her own brother to save Gibbs before she even knew him.   All this weepy flowery nonsense would not have been written down by her especially as a probie. 

Ellie supposedly worships the ground Ziva walks on? She never met her.  No matter how much someone brags to me about a before my time co-worker, I won’t suddenly worship them.  

And just when would Ziva had managed to get to the hospital before Ellie? 

[Katy M]

9 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Ellie supposedly worships the ground Ziva walks on? She never met her.  No matter how much someone brags to me about a before my time co-worker, I won’t suddenly worship them.

Most people would probably resent them, or be jealous, rather than worship them.