S01.E15: The Rock

[tennisgurl]

The lawyer just scratching the crap out of Delilahs name was hilarious. I mean, he was probably gonna leave a mark on the table underneath the paper! 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

5 hours ago, Dani said:

I didn’t have a problem with it because I assumed he was just waiting to tell her after the surgery. I think his motive was to not but negative thoughts in her head so she could just enjoy the rest of the day. I don’t think he took her to Plymouth Rock out of guilt but as a result of him facing the reality that she might not survive.

I can see that. I guess what I have a problem with is him deciding for her what she should know or not know and when. She's an adult, not a child. Gary isn't in charge of what's good for her and what's not. She might even have the opposite reaction and fight all that much harder when she has the surgery. Maybe she'd like to  offer her condolences to Linda's family and friends. I guess I'm just not down with lying to someone even if it's so they don't have negative thoughts or enjoy their day. I feel like it's better to be honest in that type of situation even if it's painful. But to each their own, maybe some people want that (probably Delilah does). Gary just strikes me as controlling-the way he was trying to get Eddie to have sex, to get Delilah not to hang out with Gas Station Man (or restaurant guy), to get Maggie to have chemo. As much as I hate him, I will say that he's good with kids. Eddie and Katherine made a good choice there. He should treat adults with the same respect he treats kids. And even though I had a different reaction than you, I do appreciate your perspective! Delilah and Gary just get under my skin so I'm probably unfair to them even though I think they deserve it at times. At least I like Maggie okay and I do like Rome and Regina and Katherine and Theo.

[possibilities]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

NoooOOoOOoooooOOOOOooOoo, or a blood clot, but will the writers use that device twice? 

With these writers, anything is possible. They might have deliberately put it in there as foreshadowing, or it might have been just another throwaway line.

I do think that the off-screen voice of the man in Barbara Morgan's life is going to turn into another shocking reveal once we do see him. It's too obvious they are keeping him out of sight. I wonder if it's not a child John sired, but maybe a car accident that injured her husband or possibly a pre-existing child of hers who was in the car?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I can see that. I guess what I have a problem with is him deciding for her what she should know or not know and when. She's an adult, not a child. Gary isn't in charge of what's good for her and what's not. She might even have the opposite reaction and fight all that much harder when she has the surgery. Maybe she'd like to  offer her condolences to Linda's family and friends. I guess I'm just not down with lying to someone even if it's so they don't have negative thoughts or enjoy their day. I feel like it's better to be honest in that type of situation even if it's painful. But to each their own, maybe some people want that (probably Delilah does). Gary just strikes me as controlling-the way he was trying to get Eddie to have sex, to get Delilah not to hang out with Gas Station Man (or restaurant guy), to get Maggie to have chemo. As much as I hate him, I will say that he's good with kids. Eddie and Katherine made a good choice there. He should treat adults with the same respect he treats kids. And even though I had a different reaction than you, I do appreciate your perspective! Delilah and Gary just get under my skin so I'm probably unfair to them even though I think they deserve it at times. At least I like Maggie okay and I do like Rome and Regina and Katherine and Theo.

You have a really good point. Gary does try and control everyone around him. He spent the entire episode trying to control how Maggie  prepared for her surgery. He improved a little bit in the end when he realized it was important for her to go to Plymouth Rock but he really doesn’t deserve a prize for being a little bit less controlling. It really would have been better if he had deflected her question about Linda instead of outright lying. 

In real life Gary’s behavior should be throwing up all kinds of red flags for a Psychologist.

I know it won’t happen but I really want Maggie to walk away from him rather than crediting him for her survival. I guess Katherine is the only on allowed to be a mature adult on this show. 

[Luckylyn]

At this point, I’m certain that if Delilah had a paper cut she would call the guys to drop everything to put a bandaid on her.

 I don’t think it’s bad that Deliah is so passive and needy because it’s okay for characters to be flawed.  The problem is the show doesn’t seem to be acknowledging that Delilah’s “Damsel in Distress” routine is a problem she needs to work on.  I just need someone to call her out on her over dependency on others.  

Her wanting Eddie around to help her with baby stuff while at the same time not wanting to publicly announce he’s the father seems very selfish.  It’s weird that Eddie’s just going along with this and that he’s not pushing back. I think Eddie and Delilah both share a certain passivity.  I think they blame others for their unhappiness and don’t take steps on their own to improve their situation.  It’s John and Katherine’s fault that they were unhappy.  Eddie has shown some growth and is taking steps for himself.  He also acknowledges his part in the downfall of his marriage.  Still he’s letting Delilah control all the decisions about his child because neither he or Delilah have the guts to deal with the fallout of their children finding out about the affair.

 I wonder what happened in John’s past so bad that he hasn’t shared his full history with his wife.  Delilah’s lack of curiosity in this situation is weird but I guess it fits that she would be self centered.

I’m more interested in the mystery of why there’s been so much hostility between Katherine and Gary.  I remember the first episode established Regina and Gary used to date.  I think they should have given that backstory to Gary and Katherine.  I get a angry ex vibes from their interactions.  

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

On Katherine’s accident, I just realized she said a truck came out of nowhere, but there was no truck at the scene?  She couldn’t have done all that damage just from swerving to avoid the truck?

I'm actually rewatching now to enjoy the Katherine/Eddie scenes and there actually was a truck on the scene, some blue pickup truck that clearly hit Katherine since its front was all smashed up.

10 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

 I don’t think it’s bad that Deliah is so passive and needy because it’s okay for characters to be flawed.  The problem is the show doesn’t seem to be acknowledging that Delilah’s “Damsel in Distress” routine is a problem she needs to work on.  I just need someone to call her out on her over dependency on others.  

And furthermore, no characters have ever called her out for anything she has done, not just about dependency over others. I think the closest was Regina by giving her the silent treatment. 

[readster]

2 hours ago, LucyEth said:

How old is Delilah's son?  She is sending him off with a money clip and a few bucks like he's 18 or something.  She should be more concerned about him understanding his feelings and protecting him then telling him and another underage boy they are cute together.  They really write her like an idiot.  I so want Katherine and Eddie to try and make a go of it again, have him realize Delilah was just a distraction when he and "Katie" were having problems.  I guess if that happened down the line the paternity of the baby would cause an issue for them again.  Loved Katherine laying it all out there about Delilah and why she would not be the guardian.  Katherine is quickly becoming my favorite character.  Glad Rome and his brother could have an adult conversation at the end.  Didn't like the dad's behavior.  Disappointed it is a short season for the show I have really been enjoying it.

Yeah, the more and more it goes, it seems everyone wants to drop everything for Delilah, but as soon as they don't, she gets all pissy. She is very self centered and while she may take her 12 year old son fine as being gay, what about his crush's parents? Do they even know their own kid is gay too? I at least get what everyone was saying about being 100% financial responsible for a kid instead of just making sure they are the "fun relative". However, the more I look at Rome and Regina, I think they have way, way too much bagage to be anyone's guardians either. Even if Regina is starting to admit, she didn't want kids because of her uncle molesting and her own mother's problems she still doesn't want to face or her dad just giving up and walking. 

[debraran]

57 minutes ago, possibilities said:

With these writers, anything is possible. They might have deliberately put it in there as foreshadowing, or it might have been just another throwaway line.

I do think that the off-screen voice of the man in Barbara Morgan's life is going to turn into another shocking reveal once we do see him. It's too obvious they are keeping him out of sight. I wonder if it's not a child John sired, but maybe a car accident that injured her husband or possibly a pre-existing child of hers who was in the car?

But wouldn't an accident that injured anyone have an insurance payout of some kind? That's been a long standing way of handling it if possible. There is something else going on. There is still that building, the life ins, the company with deleted files that Ashley got rid of. (well on the surface) If he wanted to add to it, fine, but I don't see the coverup, it's like he's in witness protection.

[Gothish520]

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

I was so angry when Delilah made that comment about how cute they were. That's so condescending. No kid old enough to date wants to hear that. She's so clueless, the show needs to do something about it because it's like they're trying to make her as stupid and annoying as possible.

Wow I am surprised at all anger over Delilah's comment. I've heard people of all ages tell couples of all ages that they look cute together. I saw absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Not only that, but there didn't appear to be any of the other kid's family around, or even anyone within earshot, even though it was outside in a public area. And "cute together" could apply to friends as well as dates. It was a bit of stretch to turn that into a huge thing.

 

2 hours ago, readster said:

Yeah, the more and more it goes, it seems everyone wants to drop everything for Delilah, but as soon as they don't, she gets all pissy. 

I did not see Delilah get at all pissy in this episode.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Gothish520

[Guest]

I have to give a lot of credit to James Roday for being so good that he momentarily made me ignore all of my problems with Gary. I was completely touched by his reaction to Linda’s death that I forgot what an asshole he was to her in the previous episode.

Now I feel really bad for Linda. She had to go through chemo for months dealing with Gary berating her for trying to be positive during the experience. Then on the day she dies cancer free Gary walks back into chemo being Mr. Optimism. I’m surprised she didn’t throw something at him. Now I do wish Maggie had been the one to find out Linda died because she at least seemed to actually  like her. 

[KaveDweller]

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

Rome said he's taking anti-depressants, but I thought he'd quit? If he went back on, they really should be showing us the process, since it was such a major plot point. I know Regina told him she needed him to get treated, but that's it? He just went back on? No adjustments? And he's just taking meds and not doing any other therapy? I thought his depression was supposed to be a major storyline.

Rome said last week he was going to go back on them. I assume they will bring them back up, they have been showing his depression in almost every episode.

4 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

On Katherine’s accident, I just realized she said a truck came out of nowhere, but there was no truck at the scene?  She couldn’t have done all that damage just from swerving to avoid the truck?

Maybe the truck drove off?

3 hours ago, nexxie said:

Gary said she outed a twelve-year-old.

I didn't get that specific comment. No one else was around when she said it. Did Gary mean that the kid hadn't even acknowledged he was gay himself? Cause didn't they say this movie was an "official date"? Surely that meant Eliot and Danny had a conversation where they acknowledged it was a date? I mean, 12 is a rough age, and I get that its a hard thing to deal with, but it seemed like odd phrasing.

I was actually worried they were going to say that Eliot thought it was just a friends thing and he wasn't gay.

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, Luckylyn said:

At this point, I’m certain that if Delilah had a paper cut she would call the guys to drop everything to put a bandaid on her.

 I don’t think it’s bad that Deliah is so passive and needy because it’s okay for characters to be flawed.  The problem is the show doesn’t seem to be acknowledging that Delilah’s “Damsel in Distress” routine is a problem she needs to work on.  I just need someone to call her out on her over dependency on others.  

Her wanting Eddie around to help her with baby stuff while at the same time not wanting to publicly announce he’s the father seems very selfish.  It’s weird that Eddie’s just going along with this and that he’s not pushing back. I think Eddie and Delilah both share a certain passivity.  I think they blame others for their unhappiness and don’t take steps on their own to improve their situation.  It’s John and Katherine’s fault that they were unhappy.  Eddie has shown some growth and is taking steps for himself.  He also acknowledges his part in the downfall of his marriage.  Still he’s letting Delilah control all the decisions about his child because neither he or Delilah have the guts to deal with the fallout of their children finding out about the affair.

 I wonder what happened in John’s past so bad that he hasn’t shared his full history with his wife.  Delilah’s lack of curiosity in this situation is weird but I guess it fits that she would be self centered.

I’m more interested in the mystery of why there’s been so much hostility between Katherine and Gary.  I remember the first episode established Regina and Gary used to date.  I think they should have given that backstory to Gary and Katherine.  I get a angry ex vibes from their interactions.  

I agree that it would not be a bad thing for someone to call Delilah out. And I do not understand at all why she's not curious about Jon's past. As I said before, I would be scouring that apartment!

[HazelEyes4325]

41 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Wow I am surprised at all anger over Delilah's comment. I've heard people of all ages tell couples of all ages that they look cute together. I saw absolutely nothing wrong with that.

1

There were a few things wrong with it.  First of all, 12-year-olds HATE that sort of comment from their parents (not just 12-year-olds, by the way).  At 12, you are in this weird place where you aren't quite a kid and you aren't quite "mature," and comments like that are very infantilizing.

Secondly, Danny had already sort of told his mother to back off.  

Thirdly, it was fuzzy with Danny and Elliott if this was even a date.

Fourthly (is that even a word?), we aren't even sure that Elliott is gay or bi or whatever.  He might just see Danny as a friend.

Fourthly part 2, Danny is 12 and being "out" is hard enough at any age, but he's still trying to figure this out.  That comment hit ALL the wrong notes with him.

Fifthly (I'm pretty sure that's not a word...) Delilah might want to try having some boundaries, not just with Danny but in general.  Just sayin'.

[possibilities]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

wouldn't an accident that injured anyone have an insurance payout of some kind?

That's true, but it's also true that he'd be legally on the hook for support if he was the father of a child. He's definitely hiding something, but the question is whether it's just hidden from his friends and family, or whether he's fully hiding from the law.

I don't know what to think at this point, and I figure the show wants it that way.

[debraran]

35 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

I agree that it would not be a bad thing for someone to call Delilah out. And I do not understand at all why she's not curious about Jon's past. As I said before, I would be scouring that apartment!

And why hasn't Gary thought of it or mentioned it to her? I know he's with Maggie but Delilah wasn't really busy. How can anyone know their husband had a place with memorabilia and photos and a tripod and who knows what else and not go back? Nash is not being at all realistic here. This goes way beyond apathy and narcissism.

Edited February 16, 2019 by debraran

[tennisgurl]

As much as I get annoyed with Delilah and her constant "oh, wont somebody help me, I is so delicate and the nicest adulterer ever" routine, I kind of give her a pass on the comment she made to Danny and his crush. Yeah that was cringy, and I thought so right away, not just because the kids arent totally sure about their feelings yet (especially Danny's crush, which we know little about) and I would think any twelve year old, especially a twelve year old boy, would be embarrassed their mom calling them adorable, especially while on a possible date or with a crush. But, I think that Delilah is overcompensating a bit on supporting Danny and his orientation, and is trying to make this a thing they can talk about, as she didnt catch on for awhile, and she is really trying to be supportive and show Danny how ok she is with this, she just went about it in an awkward way. So while I think it was a dumb thing to say, it came from a good place, so I cant be too mad at her about it. Also, was it me, or was Delilahs accent extra strong this episode?

I actually did enjoy seeing some of Eddie and Katherine, the early years, and their scenes in general were really good. They really had chemistry, and you could see the connection they had, and that they still do now, even as their marriage is ending. I actually liked their plot, it felt real for people who are trying to be civil and are both sad about how things have ended, but still have issues between them. Especially Katherine, who is clearly and understandably angry about the affair. 

I can get why they decided on Gary I guess, but they really need to deal with the fact that until very recently, Gary freaking hated Katherine, and even encouraged Eddie to cheat on and leave her, before he realized he was hooking with with Delilah. I want them to have a plot together, where they can really hash their issues out, and Gary can apologize for being such a dick to her. 

Romes dad isnt a horrible guy or anything, but he is still rather a piece of work. He babies one kid, leading to him being a man child who keeps jumping from job to job knowing his parents will bail him out, while he holds the other one up to super high standards and doesent give him support because he "didnt need it as much" or whatever, even giving him shit for taking meds for depression! That was a nice scene between him and his brother at the end though.

[iwasish]

It’s like Jon stepped into the world when he met Delilah. If he was some successful business man and jumped to his death, I can’t imagine there was no interest in it from the press. You would think some enterprising young  reporter who wants to make a name for himself would have at least tried to write a story on what could have driven this guy to suicide. 

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, Gothish520 said:

I did not see Delilah get at all pissy in this episode.

As far as I remember, there has only been one time when anyone called Delilah out for anything.  Even when Katherine sort of confronted her for the affair, she backed off from actually calling Delilah out.  No, the only person we've seen call Delilah out is Regina, when Regina found out about the affair--and Delilah DID get all pissy over that, to the point that *Regina* apologized to *Delilah* over it.

That is not something that happens unless you are dealing with someone who has NPD.  People don't go through life being completely free of any responsibility for their actions unless they have cultivated a world where only those who bend to their wills are allowed to exist.

I have a friend who in the not too recent past got out of a decade long marriage with someone who has NPD and the stories she tells are terrifying but would be completely at home in Delilah's world.

Edited February 16, 2019 by HazelEyes4325

[nexxie]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

I didn't get that specific comment. No one else was around when she said it. Did Gary mean that the kid hadn't even acknowledged he was gay himself? Cause didn't they say this movie was an "official date"? Surely that meant Eliot and Danny had a conversation where they acknowledged it was a date? I mean, 12 is a rough age, and I get that its a hard thing to deal with, but it seemed like odd phrasing.

I was actually worried they were going to say that Eliot thought it was just a friends thing and he wasn't gay.

I thought Gary meant that Eliot had not acknowledged it to any parents.

[debraran]

18 minutes ago, iwasish said:

It’s like Jon stepped into the world when he met Delilah. If he was some successful business man and jumped to his death, I can’t imagine there was no interest in it from the press. You would think some enterprising young  reporter who wants to make a name for himself would have at least tried to write a story on what could have driven this guy to suicide. 

You know that is true. He didn’t get to his level of success with just Ashley either.  News reporters would be on it,  Facebook blips , twitter etc. This wasn’t a drug overdose in his office which could have been his death but not as dramatic. 

Years ago we had a business man on on a trip near me “drown” , possibly suicide, lots of gossip. Felt sorry for his daughter. It ended up that way, bad deals etc and lingered in the news because he was known and no one knew why initially. 

I know it fit in with the shows drama, got people to watch , but jumping the way Jon did never seemed to fit the other things he did to plan or his personality. Put him out in the open in a tragic, explotive way. 

[nexxie]

Delilah was self-deprecating in this episode, doubting her parenting skills and suggesting she doesn’t have it together - I wonder if it’s her voice and/or mannerisms that cause people to read her so negatively.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Delilah was self-deprecating in this episode, doubting her parenting skills and suggesting she doesn’t have it together - I wonder if it’s her voice and/or mannerisms that cause people to read her so negatively.

For me it’s her actions and that show keeps telling me she’s wonderful. Yes, she doubted her parenting skills but that didn’t stop her from going to Gary for help. She seemed to be doubting herself over her comment to Elliot when the much bigger problem is that she did not know how to handle Danny. She gave a half hearted attempt to get him to open up and when that failed she immediately turned to someone else to solve the problem.

Her doubt might have been  a sign of self awareness if it wasn’t immediately followed up with Gary reassuring her that she is wrong. Gary tells her just need to be there for them but she’s not there for them. Even Katherine was praising Delilah as a mother. The harder the show tries to convince the Delilah is amazing the more glaring her flaws are. 

If they want me to feel more positively towards Delilah they need to show her actually trying. Show her outside Danny’s door trying to get him to open up, show her trying to get the liquor license, and show her in Jon’s apartment trying to figure out what is going on. She doesn’t need to succeed but she does need to at least try to take control of her own life. 

[iwasish]

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

As far as I remember, there has only been one time when anyone called Delilah out for anything.  Even when Katherine sort of confronted her for the affair, she backed off from actually calling Delilah out.  No, the only person we've seen call Delilah out is Regina, when Regina found out about the affair--and Delilah DID get all pissy over that, to the point that *Regina* apologized to *Delilah* over it.

That is not something that happens unless you are dealing with someone who has NPD.  People don't go through life being completely free of any responsibility for their actions unless they have cultivated a world where only those who bend to their wills are allowed to exist.

I have a friend who in the not too recent past got out of a decade long marriage with someone who has NPD and the stories she tells are terrifying but would be completely at home in Delilah's world.

If Delilah has NPD, wouldn’t the people who were Jon’s friends be apt to eventually distance themselves from her rather than hanging around playing into that type if dysfunction? It’s as if they’re caught in some kind of web that Jon has created to continue to enable Delilah’s issues.

As a woman, I would think that Regina and Katherine (especially) would eventually chafe at the constant interruptions in their own lives and families by Delilah’s endless neediness. Not to say that friends shouldn’t look out for each other’s families should something happen but Delilah seems to expect them to come running without any attempts on her part to figure things out. She certainly had no problem reaching out to the handsome guy from the gas station and playing the damsel in distress card for her liquor license.  Maybe she’s going to keep him as a fall back guy the Eddie thing goes sour. 

Edited February 16, 2019 by iwasish

[nexxie]

To me it just seems like the writers are always looking for a million little ways to give these people scenes together - Gary delivered an inflatable bed and food too; he wasn’t only helping Delilah.

Edited February 16, 2019 by nexxie

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, nexxie said:

Delilah was self-deprecating in this episode, doubting her parenting skills and suggesting she doesn’t have it together - I wonder if it’s her voice and/or mannerisms that cause people to read her so negatively.

She was self-deprecating in a way that expected praise.  It was like when you go to someone else's house for dinner and they moan that the food they prepared is terrible and you have to assure them that it isn't.  She only doubted her parenting the one time she was directly confronted with something and, yet, Maggie and Gary were there to tell her how wonderful she is.

 

35 minutes ago, iwasish said:

If Delilah has NPD, wouldn’t the people who were Jon’s friends be apt to eventually distance themselves from her rather than hanging around playing into that type if dysfunction? It’s as if they’re caught in some kind of web that Jon has created to continue to enable Delilah’s issues.

Not necessarily.  There are actually not that many people in Delilah's world, and why is that?  She had to have parent friends, people she knew through Jon's work (which had to involve a fair amount of schmoozing), etc.  Yet, she only really knows these 3-4 other people.  That is actually very common for people with NPD.  Their social circles are quite small because most people get the hell out of there (or are driven out if they cross the person with NPD), but the people who are there are the ones who--for whatever reason--fulfill the NPD person's need and don't see what their behavior actually is.

What I think is interesting is how Katherine fits into this--Katherine was sort of kicked out of the social group, but Nash claims that she and Delilah were once close friends.  Why was that?  Could it have been because she called Delilah on something?  The sad part is that we still see her trying to get back in--that horribly sad flashback scene with the scarf, for example--or even her willingness to give Delilah free legal advice, even when Delilah had slept with her husband.

Now that I think about it--we blame Eddie for the "toxic Katherine" talk, but what if it wasn't Eddie?  What if it was Delilah?

[nexxie]

5 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

She was self-deprecating in a way that expected praise. It was like when you go to someone else's house for dinner and they moan that the food they prepared is terrible and you have to assure them that it isn't. She only doubted her parenting the one time she was directly confronted with something and, yet, Maggie and Gary were there to tell her how wonderful she is.

I didn’t see it that way.

[pinkglove]

I can't believe that two episodes ago, I still had it in me to defend Delilah from the wave of hate. I guess as I said before, it's the little things that get to me and I really wanted to slap her when she called Eddie (knowing he's with Katherine). Also when she heard about the accident, I could almost hear her self-obsessed mind calculating; not even a flash of honest worry on her face. 

The lawyer was great. 

Katherine surprised me when she snapped about how she has to deal with "mothers who know." That would be the last thing on my list of crap to deal with in her situation. I'd literally be more worried about who gets the table. Also, forget about the affair, why would she want Delilah to be Theo's legal guardian? I can't even imagine those two interacting.

I find Regina and Rome kind of boring. I can't explain it, it's probably that IMO the show doesn't handle the heavy stuff too well and there isn't enough air left there, though I don't have the same problem with Maggie's cancer. 

[ams1001]

18 hours ago, possibilities said:

And why didn't they bring the dog with them to Plymouth Rock? Dogs would love something like that.

Yes, we need more Colin in this show. (But then they spent most of the day driving all over Boston so I guess it's just as well. I'm sure he was happier chilling on the couch.)

17 hours ago, debraran said:

I like Gary with kids, but is she going to call Gary every time her child is distant or doesn't want to talk to her? He might need to change his number. 😊

Right? Give the kid some space. It's been a couple hours. He doesn't need an intervention just yet.

[Gothish520]

5 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

There were a few things wrong with it.  First of all, 12-year-olds HATE that sort of comment from their parents (not just 12-year-olds, by the way).  At 12, you are in this weird place where you aren't quite a kid and you aren't quite "mature," and comments like that are very infantilizing.

Secondly, Danny had already sort of told his mother to back off.  

Thirdly, it was fuzzy with Danny and Elliott if this was even a date.

Fourthly (is that even a word?), we aren't even sure that Elliott is gay or bi or whatever.  He might just see Danny as a friend.

Fourthly part 2, Danny is 12 and being "out" is hard enough at any age, but he's still trying to figure this out.  That comment hit ALL the wrong notes with him.

Fifthly (I'm pretty sure that's not a word...) Delilah might want to try having some boundaries, not just with Danny but in general.  Just sayin'.

Still didn't see anything wrong with it, other than the usual embarrassment a kid might have when a parent gushes in front of someone else. Saying two people are cute together does not state or even imply that they are on a date. A parent embarrassing a kid is nothing new. My mom embarrassed me a few times, it wasn't the end of the world and I still loved her very much.

What about how supportive Delilah has been of Danny? And how sweet they were eating ice cream together at the end of the episode? Parents make mistakes, but it's obvious Delilah loves her children very much. 

 

5 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

As far as I remember, there has only been one time when anyone called Delilah out for anything.  Even when Katherine sort of confronted her for the affair, she backed off from actually calling Delilah out.  No, the only person we've seen call Delilah out is Regina, when Regina found out about the affair--and Delilah DID get all pissy over that, to the point that *Regina* apologized to *Delilah* over it.

That is not something that happens unless you are dealing with someone who has NPD.  People don't go through life being completely free of any responsibility for their actions unless they have cultivated a world where only those who bend to their wills are allowed to exist.

I have a friend who in the not too recent past got out of a decade long marriage with someone who has NPD and the stories she tells are terrifying but would be completely at home in Delilah's world.

I'm not really sure what any of that has to do with the post you quoted. Delilah did not get pissy with anyone in this episode, that's a fact.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, pinkglove said:

I find Regina and Rome kind of boring. I can't explain it, it's probably that IMO the show doesn't handle the heavy stuff too well and there isn't enough air left there, though I don't have the same problem with Maggie's cancer. 

 

I love Regina and Rome, but I'm also bored with them.  To me, it isn't the characters that are boring, but the storylines, or crumbs of storylines, they are given.  We've seen, especially last week, that the actors are more than capable to carry a good story, but we just sort of get that from them when Nash needs to fill up some space in an episode.

 

2 hours ago, pinkglove said:

Katherine surprised me when she snapped about how she has to deal with "mothers who know." That would be the last thing on my list of crap to deal with in her situation. I'd literally be more worried about who gets the table. Also, forget about the affair, why would she want Delilah to be Theo's legal guardian? I can't even imagine those two interacting.

 

I wrote in the character thread about how I think Katherine deals with a lot of low self-esteem and, with that in mind, I can see how this would really bother her.  She is someone (I think) who feels like she has to prove herself and has to be enough for everyone and the fact that she perceives that these women know what happened is a huge slap in her face.  

(Unless Eddie was bed hopping, though, I don't think they know anything more than she and Eddie are separated--as in, I doubt they know that Eddie cheated on her).

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, nexxie said:

I thought Gary meant that Eliot had not acknowledged it to any parents.

Right, but Eliot's parents weren't around, so it isn't like Delilah tipped them off to anything.

I can see Eliot being embarrassed/uncomfortable by the comment, but I always thought "outing someone" meant telling someone else about the person. It just seemed like odd phrasing.

[HazelEyes4325]

20 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Right, but Eliot's parents weren't around, so it isn't like Delilah tipped them off to anything.

I can see Eliot being embarrassed/uncomfortable by the comment, but I always thought "outing someone" meant telling someone else about the person. It just seemed like odd phrasing.

But when you are 12, you are easily embarrassed even when no one is around.  Add into that the stigma of being gay and I completely understand why Elliott was upset...and why Danny was upset.

[Fable]

Assuming Eliot is actually mutually attracted to Danny and considers him more than a friend, I could see him being upset that Danny told Delilah without his consent and before he was ready to share that information with anyone. 

[alexvillage]

I don't know how you all feel but the "Barbara Morgan" plot seems a little too overdramatic to me and I am not really interested in it. I want o know the particulars of Jon's hidden life, why she has to be in his policy, but I don't really want to know about the woman's feelings or doubts. 

So Regina is all good now, the trauma seems to be dealt with, nobody will ever talk about it again. I hate when writers pull this crap, one episode with all that drama and then it is like it never happened.

I didn't like that Gary lied to Maggie but I think it is realistic. She was having a happy moment, she said she was hopeful, he didn't want to spoil that moment. I think that this is one forgivable lie and I hope the writers don't decide to make Maggie all outraged because of that.

I also don't blame Delilah for how she reacted to Danny's date. But calling Gary to try to be a parent instead of herself at least trying to talk to the kid was silly. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The timing of this episode was weird for me because my sister in law has breast cancer and she had her surgery today after months of chemo.

I totally felt for Rome. It is really frustrating when your parents coddle one sibling and expect you to do the same. Then they justify it by saying you're the responsible one so they don't need to worry about you and that the other sibling NEEDS the extra attention/support/money/help (despite the fact that whatever the responsible one does isn't good enough). I mean, seriously, making the bed for him, insisting that Omar taking the humidifier that his mom needs for her asthma - this isn't just giving Omar support. That's babying a grown ass man.

And even if Rome's dad truly believes that pile of horse shit, that doesn't excuse the fact that he made a shitty comment about Rome taking anti-depressants. What his dad did was classic manipulative/gaslighting behavior: he treats Rome like a jerk and when Rome reacted, his dad accused him of having a tantrum. Ugh.

I did like how realistic it was that Omar confessed he and Stasia were getting a divorce while playing video games.

I always roll my eyes whenever tv characters walk five feet away and act like no one else can hear their conversations. At least Katherine overhearing Eddie on the phone with Delilah meant that the laws of physics apply in her house aka she can hear someone talking when he's in plain sight.

I liked the honest conversation that Katherine and Eddie had about who should be Theo's guardian. I think it's been a while since they've been really upfront with each other. Even though I don't want them to reconcile, I'm glad that they are finally moving forward and really communicating. I feel like both of them have been tiptoeing around each other because they don't want to rock the boat and make the situation worse by fighting about things that they can't change.

[nexxie]

7 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Right, but Eliot's parents weren't around, so it isn't like Delilah tipped them off to anything.

I can see Eliot being embarrassed/uncomfortable by the comment, but I always thought "outing someone" meant telling someone else about the person. It just seemed like odd phrasing.

If Eliot didn’t expect Delilah to know about it, I guess she outed him - but wasn’t Gary just using that phrase to tease her about it?

[HazelEyes4325]

7 hours ago, Fable said:

Assuming Eliot is actually mutually attracted to Danny and considers him more than a friend, I could see him being upset that Danny told Delilah without his consent and before he was ready to share that information with anyone. 

I can also see the other side of it--Elliott NOT being attracted to Danny and not considering him more than a friend.  In that comment, that case would have been at least as bad.  There really is no way to slice and dice this one--and, yeah, I know people say shit like this all.the.time, but it doesn't make it any better in this case.  If you want to say it to an established couple, fine.  But don't say it to your just out 12-year-old and the kid who may or may not be on a date with him.

3 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I also don't blame Delilah for how she reacted to Danny's date. But calling Gary to try to be a parent instead of herself at least trying to talk to the kid was silly. 

 

But this is Delilah's parenting MO.  She is fine when nothing is going on but as soon as either of her kids needs anything, she calls in someone else to do it.  Heck, the reason Jon might have "emotionally divorced" her was that he had to do the parenting of two parents!

[debraran]

18 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I can also see the other side of it--Elliott NOT being attracted to Danny and not considering him more than a friend.  In that comment, that case would have been at least as bad.  There really is no way to slice and dice this one--and, yeah, I know people say shit like this all.the.time, but it doesn't make it any better in this case.  If you want to say it to an established couple, fine.  But don't say it to your just out 12-year-old and the kid who may or may not be on a date with him.

But this is Delilah's parenting MO.  She is fine when nothing is going on but as soon as either of her kids needs anything, she calls in someone else to do it.  Heck, the reason Jon might have "emotionally divorced" her was that he had to do the parenting of two parents!

It was a dumb thing to say to any 12 year old, same sex, different sex, whatever. I think calling Gary was dumb too but that's the way it was written. At that age, I would have been embarrassed by that also.

I really hated Delilah for calling Eddie (and not even trying to text)  when she knew he would be with Katherine. She was put off by it and had to assert herself. They aren't supposed to be a couple in public anyway and it just seemed mean after Katherine helped her too. She didn't call her, she called Eddie. I hope she doesn't help again. Clueless Delilah doesn't seem to think there are other shoes dropping after she signed one paper she didn't know about. I hope she hears out the strange woman entering her home but I'm sure this will be another call for help to her friends that she just can't handle this right now. Of course she made no effort to understand the suicide at all with all the clues that were given her. I just don't understand the apathy except for a NPD type of disorder. No one is that incurious.

[Gothish520]

18 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I can also see the other side of it--Elliott NOT being attracted to Danny and not considering him more than a friend.  In that comment, that case would have been at least as bad.  There really is no way to slice and dice this one--and, yeah, I know people say shit like this all.the.time, but it doesn't make it any better in this case.  If you want to say it to an established couple, fine.  But don't say it to your just out 12-year-old and the kid who may or may not be on a date with him.

But this is Delilah's parenting MO.  She is fine when nothing is going on but as soon as either of her kids needs anything, she calls in someone else to do it.  Heck, the reason Jon might have "emotionally divorced" her was that he had to do the parenting of two parents!

Elliot has been making googly-eyes at Danny since we first saw them together.  It's obvious that they liked each other in more than just a friendship way. Elliot has a right to his feelings, and if what Delilah said made him so uncomfortable that he felt the need to ditch Danny. then so be it. It's sad to see your kid's heart broken, but he's 12 for crying out loud.  His heart will be broken many more times, and he will break hearts as well. That's life.

I think Delilah could have given Danny some time to be alone and deal with his emotions, but this was just the excuse they came up with to have Delilah "need" Gary, like Regina "needed" him to deliver food to Katherine and Rome "needed" him to bring him an inflatable bed.

[TaurusRose]

Note to Gary. Being there is not enough; being there and useful is. Will people stop making excuses for her?

Rome’s brother made me want to stick a fork in his eye.

Delilah is so fucking useless I can’t stand it. I guess being a damn adult is completely beyond her.  Admitting that she’s leaning on all her friends and holding her stomach doesn’t make her worthy of respect or likable. 

Rome’s comment to his father that maybe he should worry about him really resonated with me. So many people (family and friends) make the mistake that the strong, self-reliant one doesn’t need support at times. 

Eddie and Katherine looked good together when they were looking at the table. Too bad I still think he’s a dick. Oh, and Katherine? You may have not had always given Eddie the benefit of doubt and contributed to the downfall of your marriage, but you know what you didn't do?  Go out and have an affair with one of your husband's friends.  

Last scene with “Barbara Morgan”?  Don’t care.

Edited February 19, 2019 by taurusrose
Clarify a term.

[mansonlamps]

So if the Million Little Things podcast I listen to is to be believed, the lawyer is an actual lawyer who occasionally acts for fun.  Funny that the standout moment on the episode IMO was improv from the only non professional actor.

And the minute Delilah made that statement and Elliott went running on the opposite direction, I knew there was going to be a problem.  Very tone deaf of Delilah, it was a sensitive situation.

on a side note, the actress playing Delilah looks so much like my best friend from childhood it's actually distracting.  And it makes it hard to hate her😉

[TaurusRose]

On 2/15/2019 at 8:29 AM, TVForever said:

As for Delilah, I’m going to cut her some slack on this one. She wouldn’t be the first parent to say or do something cringeworthy while trying to be their kid’s cheerleader. Especially with her son admitting that he’s gay. In her effort to be accepting, she went a little overboard. I get it.

1

If that had been the first instance of Delilah being clueless I would agree.  But she has made a career out of it. So...no.

 

On 2/15/2019 at 12:47 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

Yes, Regina...uber eats exists.

 

Seriously, why bother with Uber Eats when you can get a friend to do it for free?

[HazelEyes4325]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

I just don't understand the apathy except for a NPD type of disorder. No one is that incurious.

1

I really wonder...does Delilah have NPD or is Nash just that absolutely clueless?  I mean, she is pretty much a textbook case yet STILL she is portrayed in a way that I think the show wants us to sympathize with her.  Which, by the way, doesn't work.  It only makes me despise her more AND feel like the show is trying to gaslight me.

[nexxie]

34 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I really wonder...does Delilah have NPD or is Nash just that absolutely clueless?  I mean, she is pretty much a textbook case yet STILL she is portrayed in a way that I think the show wants us to sympathize with her.  Which, by the way, doesn't work.  It only makes me despise her more AND feel like the show is trying to gaslight me.

The whole premise of the show is that friendship is about a million little things - from a certain male point of view that includes looking after your dead friend’s wife and children. (I recall from anthropology class that, in some cultures, a man was even expected to marry his brother’s widow.)

Last week, Delilah asked Gary to back off - as more time goes by since Jon’s death, the writers will probably use different plot points to create scenes between these friends.

[iwasish]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

It was a dumb thing to say to any 12 year old, same sex, different sex, whatever. I think calling Gary was dumb too but that's the way it was written. At that age, I would have been embarrassed by that also.

I really hated Delilah for calling Eddie (and not even trying to text)  when she knew he would be with Katherine. She was put off by it and had to assert herself. They aren't supposed to be a couple in public anyway and it just seemed mean after Katherine helped her too. She didn't call her, she called Eddie. I hope she doesn't help again. Clueless Delilah doesn't seem to think there are other shoes dropping after she signed one paper she didn't know about. I hope she hears out the strange woman entering her home but I'm sure this will be another call for help to her friends that she just can't handle this right now. Of course she made no effort to understand the suicide at all with all the clues that were given her. I just don't understand the apathy except for a NPD type of disorder. No one is that incurious.

Delilah’s motive for calling not texting was obviously a “ hey what about me and YOUR BABY “

But Eddie, once he knew Katherine was ok and able to go home, could have found 30 seconds to TEXT Delilah and fill her in.  The truth is these two aren’t going to be together. The self satisfied look on her face after she apparently installed the car seat without his help was telling, she realized she didn’t need Eddie to do it. And she has the restaurant guy to help her.... with no wife or soon to be ex wife to mucky up the water. 

Jon’s been dead 7 months, did she and Eddie know she was pregnant prior to his death? If that baby isn’t born in the next 2 months, there are going to be questions.* 

*I only started watching in the last 3 episodes so I’m reading earlier posts to catch-up. The issue of the due date may have been answered. 

[Gothish520]

29 minutes ago, nexxie said:

The whole premise of the show is that friendship is about a million little things - from a certain male point of view that includes looking after your dead friend’s wife and children. (I recall from anthropology class that, in some cultures, a man was even expected to marry his brother’s widow.)

Last week, Delilah asked Gary to back off - as more time goes by since Jon’s death, the writers will probably use different plot points to create scenes between these friends.

When people focus exclusively on any mistakes or perceived negative behavior and completely ignore anything good or positive, it is easy to turn someone into a pariah. Delilah could run into a burning building, save a dozen people and put the fire out single-handedly and people would still find a way to criticize her and call her a horrible person. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I really wonder...does Delilah have NPD or is Nash just that absolutely clueless?  I mean, she is pretty much a textbook case yet STILL she is portrayed in a way that I think the show wants us to sympathize with her.  Which, by the way, doesn't work.  It only makes me despise her more AND feel like the show is trying to gaslight me.

This is my biggest question about this show. Is it deliberate or just bad writing? I have a hard time imagining the same writers doing so well with some characters and so badly with others. It is particularly weird when you compare the writing for Katherine vs Delilah.

The crazy thing is if they are trying to make me sympathize with Delilah they are choosing the worst possible scenes to show. 

17 minutes ago, iwasish said:

Jon’s been dead 7 months, did she and Eddie know she was pregnant prior to his death? If that baby isn’t born in the next 2 months, there are going to be questions.* 

*I only started watching in the last 3 episodes so I’m reading earlier posts to catch-up. The issue of the due date may have been answered. 

She found out she was pregnant a few weeks after Jon died. The timeline for the show is a complete mess. The writers have even put contradictory dates within a single episode. 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Guest

[iwasish]

10 minutes ago, Dani said:

This is my biggest question about this show. Is it deliberate or just bad writing? I have a hard time imagining the same writers doing so well with some characters and so badly with others. It is particularly weird when you compare the writing for Katherine vs Delilah.

The crazy thing is if they are trying to make me sympathize with Delilah they are choosing the worst possible scenes to show. 

She found out she was pregnant a few weeks after Jon died. The timeline for the show is a complete mess. The writers have even but contradictory dates within a single episode. 

Thanks! That helps a bit. So paternity could still be a question mark. (Lots of women on Maury are 1000% sure .... but he is NOT the father!!!) 

[HazelEyes4325]

53 minutes ago, Dani said:

This is my biggest question about this show. Is it deliberate or just bad writing? I have a hard time imagining the same writers doing so well with some characters and so badly with others. It is particularly weird when you compare the writing for Katherine vs Delilah.

 

I ask this question as well and I honestly don't know.  I will say this, though...if it turns out that Nash does know what he's doing and Delilah does, indeed, have NPD (which would actually be a very interesting story--it is something that so many people have to deal with but is rarely dealt with in movies or TV), I will have to take back a lot of my criticism of him.

1 hour ago, iwasish said:

Delilah’s motive for calling not texting was obviously a “ hey what about me and YOUR BABY “

But Eddie, once he knew Katherine was ok and able to go home, could have found 30 seconds to TEXT Delilah and fill her in.  The truth is these two aren’t going to be together. The self satisfied look on her face after she apparently installed the car seat without his help was telling, she realized she didn’t need Eddie to do it. And she has the restaurant guy to help her.... with no wife or soon to be ex wife to mucky up the water. 

2

I don't know if it was ever a case of Delilah thinking she didn't know how to do something (install a car seat), but rather she felt as though she shouldn't have to do it.  I'll be honest, I knew that I shouldn't have to install a car seat because I am really, really bad at things like that and I didn't want to do it wrong and endanger my baby.  I get it.  But I also found someone appropriate to help me with it (as I said earlier, our local Fire Department installs these for free).  

I just don't get this thing with Delilah of denying Eddie is the father (if he really is...) but then expecting him to drop everyone for her.

[cardigirl]

2 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

When people focus exclusively on any mistakes or perceived negative behavior and completely ignore anything good or positive, it is easy to turn someone into a pariah. Delilah could run into a burning building, save a dozen people and put the fire out single-handedly and people would still find a way to criticize her and call her a horrible person. 

The fact that she knew Eddie was with Katherine after Katherine was hurt and she chose to call Eddie, not Katherine, and say ‘ I waited 45 minutes for you’ as a chastisement for him not showing up indicates to me that they are not going to write a savior scenario for that character any time soon. 

But Katherine, even in asking that Delilah not be the guardian of her son, said that Delilah was doing a good job as a single mother. SHE DEFENDED HER. Which is more than good old Delilah has ever done for anyone. So. Yes, I would say that Delilah has a long way to go, as a character, to be redeemed, even though she is French.

Edited February 16, 2019 by cardigirl