S16.E10: Hoop Dreams

[rafibomb]

12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I don't get how drawing attention to that decision is right.  It's like the kid in school that outs his fellow classmate for having the math formula written on their wrist while taking a test.  Sure, it's not right to use a crib sheet, but it's also not cool to be a tattler.  Especially when you have nothing but to gain by doing so, as in you stand to win and make the other person lose by revealing it.  And what Sara did is not even as bad as using a crib sheet!  It was a shortcut and not even a really bad one.  It's not like she used frozen waffles or anything.

Yeah, I once outed someone for cheating on a math test, so I clearly have a different perspective. Staying silent while someone else cheats is nothing to be proud of, IMO- especially when the test is being graded on a curve, and that person's behavior will therefore impact everyone's grade.

Obviously what Sara did wasn't cheating, but I also don't think it's really "tattling" to mention something that was done on camera and clearly visible to everyone else in the kitchen.

[Suzn]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

For sure, Sara should take responsibility for her choice of using a boxed mix, but I suspect that if she were a more popular contestant there would be more sympathy for her for not being open about it.  I've watched TC since season 1, and a lot of really good chefs seem to commit that offense cluelessly, not realizing it's a mortal offense to do so and I've never seen such negative sentiment towards them.  I don't like her either but that doesn't change my opinion on this.

And if I were in her shoes I would have felt like the other team was ganging up on me and making a public spectacle of my mistake through patting themselves on the back for not using a pre-made mix.  The implication that they were attempting to humiliate Sara was more than obvious to me, and speaks of a mean-spiritedness that I frankly thought these chefs were above.  Why didn't anyone clue her in about the mix beforehand, too?  I thought we valued contestants that helped other contestants, not let them swing in the breeze and then make a spectacle of them, unless something changed overnight when I wasn't looking.

ITA!  I'm no fan of Sarah's, but I thought the whole thing was nasty.  From Adrienne being a tattle-tale to the taunting of yelling Homemade.  Then they pretend that it was good-natured teasing - that was disingenuous bullshit. Whether Tom knew about the mix otherwise is irrelevant.  Let the food speak for itself.  I quit watching this show for years because of bullying and it has no place here.

[questionfear]

6 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

I think Adrienne is the only female I've liked for the past few weeks.

Kelsey is smug and as a superiority complex.  If I had to hear her say "BOOO-Yawn" one more time in the QF, my tv may not have escaped damage.  And she loses points for boo-hooing about leaving her baby behind to pursue her dream all to make his life better.  I get being homesick or missing family, but these contestants CHOSE to leave their family.  For whatever reason - fame, fortune, career advancement- YOU made the decision to pack you knives and get on the plane.  Tom & Padma didn't kidnap you from your bed, Ninja style in the middle of the night.  So just shut it about your 'sacrifices'! 

Sara is a smug, know it all with an abrasive personality IMO.  Rolled my eyes so hard at hearing her 'poor widdle me' whine fest in the stew room.  When Adrienne was explaining she thought it was all in good fun, and called Sara "Mamma...", and Sara sniped back, "Don't call me 'Mamma'!!! Call me SARA!"...I was like, "oh no you didn't.  'Bye girl.

And Michelle, although she seemed sweet & is talented, girl has a voice that had me scrambling for the mute button on my remote every week.  

I generally like Kelsey, but yea, it's annoying. Especially because they film it all in like a 3-week period. So she was gone what, a month? Maybe? It's not great, but it's also not like she was gone for 6 months. All the chefs make it sounds more dramatic though. They are probably encouraged to do so for the talking heads. 

[Giselle]

1 hour ago, rafibomb said:

Yeah, I once outed someone for cheating on a math test, so I clearly have a different perspective. Staying silent while someone else cheats is nothing to be proud of, IMO- especially when the test is being graded on a curve, and that person's behavior will therefore impact everyone's grade.

Obviously what Sara did wasn't cheating, but I also don't think it's really "tattling" to mention something that was done on camera and clearly visible to everyone else in the kitchen.

Agreed.

Using a mix wasn't cheating on the  rules but it had the whiff of cheating when everyone else in the competition is cooking from scratch. That said...

Sarah absolutely cheated herself by deciding to take the easy way out.

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, carrps said:

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time finding anything Adrienne did that was snotty. She was asked, and she answered.

It has been a looooooooooong tradition on Top Chef that shortcuts like this are really looked down on, and Tom hates them. I'm just not seeing any nefarious skullduggery here at all. Sara is the one who has been snotty the entire season.

I'm not saying it's "skullduggery".  I'll repeat myself, I thought we expected the chefs to get ahead in the competition on their own merits, not by comparing anyone else to them in any derogatory way, even over a shortcut.  That's not skullduggery but it's not nice either.  And there was no evidence that any of the chefs tried to do the nice thing by warning her about it, at least not that I can recall.   And her standing by her decision seemed to me to have been filmed after the fact so that's no evidence that any of the chefs warned her but she dug her heels in about it despite that.

I don't care if Sara has been snotty all season, that still doesn't make what Adrienne or the other chefs did the decent thing to do.  I have been watching this show for 16 seasons and in the past most people looked down upon chefs for this very same type of behavior.  I know I'm not making it up or remembering it wrong.  We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

ITA!  I'm no fan of Sarah's, but I thought the whole thing was nasty.  From Adrienne being a tattle-tale to the taunting of yelling Homemade.  Then they pretend that it was good-natured teasing - that was disingenuous bullshit. Whether Tom knew about the mix otherwise is irrelevant.  Let the food speak for itself.  I quit watching this show for years because of bullying and it has no place here.

Thank you, ITA with you too!  You're right that it feels like bullying.  I was bullied as a kid so I recognize that behavior right away.  Thanks for mentioning that.  I think that's why it hit a hot button with me.

[greyflannel]

Using a boxed mix and "doctoring it up" or "making it my own" has been a shortcut used by a lot of home cooks since boxed/bagged mixes came out. It's still a dish made from a box/bag, not from scratch. Sara's adding whatever she added didn't change the fact that her waffles were made from a mix. This is not something that I expect from a Top Chef contestant. Also, if a contestant needs someone to tell them that using a bagged mix isn't the best idea, maybe they shouldn't be on Top Chef. The fact that she didn't understand what the problem was with using a mix, as well as blaming others for the fallout from its use, says a lot about her.

[dleighg]

2 minutes ago, greyflannel said:

The fact that she didn't understand what the problem was with using a mix, as well as blaming others for the fallout from its use, says a lot about her.

Someone upstream pointed out that it was "pancake/waffle mix" which probably means it isn't ideal for either one. Pancakes are soft, waffles are crispy. I admit not knowing what differences in the mixture would lead to that. What are the three ingredients? Flour, baking powder, salt? How hard would it have been to make it herself?

[greyflannel]

11 minutes ago, dleighg said:

Someone upstream pointed out that it was "pancake/waffle mix" which probably means it isn't ideal for either one. Pancakes are soft, waffles are crispy. I admit not knowing what differences in the mixture would lead to that. What are the three ingredients? Flour, baking powder, salt? How hard would it have been to make it herself?

The mix has flour, sugar, salt, buttermilk powder and leaveners. It wouldn't have been hard at all to make it herself, and I don't get why she didn't.

Edited February 11, 2019 by greyflannel

[dleighg]

16 minutes ago, greyflannel said:

The mix has flour, sugar, salt, buttermilk powder and leaveners.

So Sarah wasn't telling the truth about "just three ingredients" huh?

[Suzn]

7 minutes ago, dleighg said:

So Sarah wasn't telling the truth about "just three ingredients" huh?

I understood it to be flour, salt and leavening only. I thought they showed the label.  I don't want to watch it again to confirm.

[greyflannel]

4 minutes ago, dleighg said:

So Sarah wasn't telling the truth about "just three ingredients" huh?

I actually Googled the mix, because her 3 ingredients thing didn't make sense. Maybe she was talking about self-rising flour;-)

[Chit Chat]

9 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Kelsey is smug and as a superiority complex.

Not that I know her personally, but she was very nice to me when I went into her restaurant to check out the baked goods at the counter.  She happened to be standing at the counter and asked if she could help me.  She could've passed me off to someone else, but she took the time to acknowledge that I was standing there.  Also, I've spoken to a few locals who happen to know her and they all say she's very nice.  I think the short little clips on these kinds of shows can be misleading as to a person's true character.

1 hour ago, greyflannel said:

The mix has flour, sugar, salt, buttermilk powder and leaveners. It wouldn't have been hard at all to make it herself, and I don't get why she didn't.

I think she thought it would be a timesaver, but knowing that the cameras were on her while she was buying the pre-packaged mix, she should've rethought that idea!  Sadly, it came back to bite her in the ass.  It was nice though that the judges liked her chicken better than Adrienne's.  There was a little redemption for her!

[Lemuria]

On 2/9/2019 at 2:02 PM, dleighg said:

well, he asked Adrienne if it was from scratch and she said yes. Then Tom and Ed started in on "no one on Top Chef should ever use a mix" or some such thing. It would be hard for anyone to resist walking through that particular door!

Actually, Adrienne said that.  After saying she was making it from scratch, she added that you don't come on TC and use boxed flour, which somebody else was doing (and since it seemed that Sarah was the only other person using flour, she might as well have used the name), and gee, she didn't really want to throw them under the bus but...To which Tom noted that she didn't throw them under the bus, she ran the bus right over them.

She knew exactly what she was doing and, to me, she intended it to give her the win if she went head to head with Sarah and the judges seemed to like them both equally.

As for what happened on the court, that was not gentle teasing, that was taunting designed to humiliate and throw someone off their game.  If that had happened to me, there is no way I could have stayed out there.  

JMO. YMMV

Edited February 12, 2019 by Lemuria
Darn autocorrect!

[BlackberryJam]

You know, if the quality and skills of these chefs were better, people wouldn't be arguing over box mixes and tattling.

[biakbiak]

11 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

You know, if the quality and skills of these chefs were better, people wouldn't be arguing over box mixes and tattling.

I don’t think that’s true. All of the dishes, even Michelle’s with the ribs that weren’t ideal for the amount of time they had, had components that the judges raved about. 

[Suzn]

I re-watched the purchase of ingredients.  As Sara picked up the mix, she said it contained flour, baking powder and baking soda.  There may be another discussion of ingredients later, but I stopped there.

[biakbiak]

32 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I re-watched the purchase of ingredients.  As Sara picked up the mix, she said it contained flour, baking powder and baking soda.  There may be another discussion of ingredients later, but I stopped there.

She left out the sugar and buttermilk powder. You can clearly see that she purchased 365 Organic (WF house brand) Buttermilk Pancake and Waffle mix and you can see the Ingredients listed here.

[Giselle]

12 hours ago, Lemuria said:

Actually, Adrienne said that.  After saying she was making it from scratch, she added that you don't come on TC and use boxed flour, which somebody else was doing (and since it seemed that Sarah was the only other person using flour, she might as well have used the name), and gee, she didn't really want to throw them under the bus but...To which Tom noted that she didn't throw them under the bus, she ran the bus right over them.

She knew exactly what she was doing and, to me, she intended it to give her the win if she went head to head with Sarah and the judges seemed to like them both equally.

As for what happened on the court, that was not gentle teasing, that was taunting designed to humiliate and throw someone off their game.  If that had happened to me, there is no way I could have stayed out there.  

JMO. YMMV

We will have to agree to disagree.:-)

Sarah was on camera choosing and justifying the use of a mix. Production  filmed it and whispered in Tom's ear and Tom brought it up to Adrienne. They knew already! Everybody knew! 

The emperor had no clothes. Everybody knew it. One person was honest enough to say something.

Why should Adrienne lie to a judge who knows the answer and cover up for some slacker taking shortcuts to gain an advantage? She did nothing wrong. 

Why did Sarah never say when describing her dish in the arena "I made "BBN" Chicken and Waffles. The waffle is from a Whole Foods "365" mix that I doctored up...."

Why did Tom keep bringing it up? 

It doesn't seem to bother Sarah to let every judge and crowd know that she's the hometown contestant and play up to that and get them behind her. For the record Tom ratted her out there too... again. You heard the change in the crowd.

Then the white team used the same tactics Sarah did to get the crowd behind them just like Sarah did for herself. They promoted the fact that they put in the extra effort and didn't take shortcuts. Sarah had already played her "winning over" game before the white team got the crowd behind them.

Sarah had no game this episode nor has this entire season and is has consistently been shown to be true.  She talks a good game, brags that this is her court and that she can make 3 pointers easy, but rarely does she even make a basket for all her attempts. Then...

When she didn't put in the effort & tried to force an advantage the ref called her on it. 

Shouldn't we be asking "Why did Tom keep bringing up the mix?"

Why?

Because this isn't the "Sandra Lee Invitational" you're supposed to know how to come up with a recipe for a "named" main component of your dish that you chose to make and not start with a mix.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Giselle

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, Giselle said:

Why should Adrienne lie to a judge who knows the answer and cover up for some slacker taking shortcuts to gain an advantage? She did nothing wrong. 

What I heard was Adrienne volunteering that information.  Tom either knew or would know anyway, but the point is that Adrienne went out of her way and her attitude was that of a tattletale.

[Eulipian 5k]

Okay, since we (and Tom) have crushed Sara over using box mixes on a cooking show, what's with the crudos, carpacchios, or sushis, which are really just knife skills and some seasoning, aren't those more Quickfire skills than hours of cooking for an elimination? Tom once quipped about that in an early season.

[Eulipian 5k]

13 hours ago, Lemuria said:

Actually, Adrienne said that.  After saying she was making it from scratch, she added that you don't come on TC and use boxed flour, which somebody else was doing (and since it seemed that Sarah was the only other person using flour, she might as well have used the name), and gee, she didn't really want to throw them under the bus but...To which Tom noted that she didn't throw them under the bus, she ran the bus right over them.

He all but handed her the keys, LOL.

[Eulipian 5k]

16 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Thank you, ITA with you too!  You're right that it feels like bullying.  I was bullied as a kid so I recognize that behavior right away.  Thanks for mentioning that.  I think that's why it hit a hot button with me.

These are grown adults in a voluntary setting, being filmed and watched by all kinds of producers, PAs, and us. They are not helpless children with no adult coping skills. Nobody stuffed Sara in her locker or took her waffle mix money.

[Suzn]

16 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

These are grown adults in a voluntary setting, being filmed and watched by all kinds of producers, PAs, and us. They are not helpless children with no adult coping skills. Nobody stuffed Sara in her locker or took her waffle mix money.

Nobody is changing their position on this, of course.  For me, I see it as bullying and I'm about to quit Top Chef again.  I am only interesting in skill and creativity and the personal bullshit is unpleasant and disheartening.  I realize this is an uncommon attitude and that personal drama and cut-throat strategies are the major substance of most competitive reality shows; it is just lowest common denominator content to me.

[carrps]

4 hours ago, Giselle said:

Because this isn't the "Sandra Lee Invitational" you're supposed to know how to come up with a recipe for a "named" main component of your dish that you chose to make and not start with a mix.

LOL!!!!

And this was so far from Marcel having his head forcibly shaved territory it's not funny.

[Suzn]

10 minutes ago, carrps said:

LOL!!!!

And this was so far from Marcel having his head forcibly shaved territory it's not funny.

It doesn't need to be that extreme to be odious. 

[carrps]

2 minutes ago, Suzn said:

It doesn't need to be that extreme to be odious. 

Well, in my view, it wasn't even bullying, so I don't find it odious at all.

[Suzn]

3 minutes ago, carrps said:

Well, in my view, it wasn't even bullying, so I don't find it odious at all.

Obviously, we will have to agree to disagree.

[carrps]

2 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Obviously, we will have to agree to disagree.

Yes, obviously. To me, Sara showed the classic behavior of a bullier. She was fine ragging on others until the light was shone on her. Then, it's all tears and "poor me." When she wasn't eliminated? Oh, no probs. It's only Michelle, so no biggie.

Edited to add: I'm done on this subject.

Edited February 12, 2019 by carrps

[Suzn]

3 minutes ago, carrps said:

Yes, obviously. To me, Sara showed the classic behavior of a bullier. She was fine ragging on others until the light was shone on her. Then, it's all tears and "poor me." When she wasn't eliminated? Oh, no probs. It's only Michelle, so no biggie.

I wasn't defending Sara.  There was enough bad behavior to go around.  I have only commented on WaffleGate and the taunting. Bad treatment of people we don't like is still bad treatment. 

[FormerMod-a1]

I wish I could have tried those dumplings!  They looked and sounded great.

I also wish I could have tried the bunless juicy lucy.  I'm usually not so impressed with juicey lucys (I live in the Twin Cities, I know them well), but that one looked good!  (I like them, just don't love them, the cheese seems better evenly distributed on top the burger to me).

[FormerMod-a1]

MOD NOTE: Keep the discussion about the show and the people on it, and not on other posters.

[jcbrown]

6 hours ago, Giselle said:

Because this isn't the "Sandra Lee Invitational" you're supposed to know how to come up with a recipe for a "named" main component of your dish that you chose to make and not start with a mix.

I would watch the hell out of that.

(And I agree with your point.)

[Eulipian 5k]

How to win Top Chef, or your freedom if it matters.

[Red Bridey]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 11:31 AM, AriAu said:

I agree with this but want to add that clearly this group, while not best buddies, seem to have made some pact to stick together and play nice in the sandbox, as evidenced by their comments when Brother joined the house.

Brother's entry into the house was annoying to them because it wasn't like he was a eliminated member reinstated by overcoming some special extra challenge (Last Chance Kitchen).  He was a contestant from a previous season who was reinstated for some unknown reason.  It's like, you had your shot during your season, now just go away.  I'd be pissed off at him too.  But then he basically blew his shot and was gone so fast, the regular cheftestants didn't have to waste a lot of energy in being "exclusive."

[AriAu]

Interesting question and I'm asking for a friend. Why is it ok to use pre-made bread/rolls, but not a mix to actually make waffles? They asked Justin why he didn't use a bun or roll and noone asked why he didn't bake one, but Sara is getting shit on for using a mix as the base for her waffles. I realize that her bigger/biggest issue was that the waffles were not good, but where is the line on what needs to be homemade?

Eggo (always a bad approach)

 vs.

starting with a mix and adding ingredients (is the end product any good?????)

 vs

totally from scratch....

........and what products require totally from scratch....is it only products that would be hard to make in the available time? Is it ever ok to use premade/dried pasta...which some restaurants swear by for certain dishes like lasagna?

I am not a huge Sara fan and sadly I have no cheftestant that I am rooting for due to their skills (I rarely base it on personality...unless its dislike like Josie or Lisa Fernandez or Spike or Marcel or Philip), which says something about this crew, but it is an interesting question.

Edited February 12, 2019 by AriAu

[Ellee]

Justin wouldn’t have had enough time I don’t think. 

[BlackberryJam]

Because you have to let dough rise, and knead it, making hamburger buns would have taken about four hours. Making waffles from scratch takes about ten minutes to mix up the batter. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by BlackberryJam

[The Solution]

45 minutes ago, AriAu said:

I am not a huge Sara fan and sadly I have no cheftestant that I am rooting for due to their skills (I rarely base it on personality...unless its dislike like Josie or Lisa Fernandez or Spike or Marcel or Philip), which says something about this crew, but it is an interesting question.

Spike being my all-time favorite cheftestant (other than Brooke of course), I am beyond offended by this remark. Why is it okay to bash Spike but Sara is beyond limits? Wise-asses have feelings too, y'know.

[AriAu]

26 minutes ago, The Solution said:

Spike being my all-time favorite cheftestant (other than Brooke of course), I am beyond offended by this remark. Why is it okay to bash Spike but Sara is beyond limits? Wise-asses have feelings too, y'know.

I'm not defending Sara...couldnt care less, frankly.....but I thought Spike went beyond wise ass into disrespectful jerk (for sure on TC Masters)....but worst of all, I felt that he engaged in too much reality TV game playing, which is pretty much avoided on this show and why I enjoy it. But YMMV...and obviously does!

On the other hand, Spike has done a lot of good in the communities he serves-he was in  with Jose Andres  in giving out meals to government workers affected by the shutdown...so maybe TV adds 10 pounds of jerkiness.

PS-Brooke is in my top few cheftestatants with Stephanie Izard as #1, followed by Kristen, Isaac Toupes and then probably Brooke...but I havent given it a lot of thought.

[Eulipian 5k]

1 hour ago, AriAu said:

Interesting question and I'm asking for a friend. Why is it ok to use pre-made bread/rolls, but not a mix to actually make waffles?

My friend asked me if Carrie (Colorado) made the bread for her line of Fancy Toasts, LOL? Or did she just make the Fancy, and is that Top Chef worthy? - (It sure was, I dug Carrie) Some of the Cheftestants kept squealing about that.

[greyflannel]

1 hour ago, AriAu said:

Interesting question and I'm asking for a friend. Why is it ok to use pre-made bread/rolls, but not a mix to actually make waffles? They asked Justin why he didn't use a bun or roll and noone asked why he didn't bake one, but Sara is getting shit on for using a mix as the base for her waffles. I realize that her bigger/biggest issue was that the waffles were not good, but where is the line on what needs to be homemade?

Eggo (always a bad approach)

 vs.

starting with a mix and adding ingredients (is the end product any good?????)

 vs

totally from scratch....

........and what products require totally from scratch....is it only products that would be hard to make in the available time? Is it ever ok to use premade/dried pasta...which some restaurants swear by for certain dishes like lasagna?

I am not a huge Sara fan and sadly I have no cheftestant that I am rooting for due to their skills (I rarely base it on personality...unless its dislike like Josie or Lisa Fernandez or Spike or Marcel or Philip), which says something about this crew, but it is an interesting question.

I would equate using a pancake/waffle mix with using a boxed cake mix or a cornbread mix. Again, no matter what you add to it to customize it, it's still a waffle/cake/cornbread made from a mix. I think of this show as having higher standards than your average Food Network competition show, and I don't think that the chefs here should be cooking from mixes. If you were a judge, would you award a dessert win to a "chef" who made a doctored Duncan Hines cake, even if it tasted good?

[etexlady]

On 2/11/2019 at 2:57 PM, Suzn said:

ITA!  I'm no fan of Sarah's, but I thought the whole thing was nasty.  From Adrienne being a tattle-tale to the taunting of yelling Homemade.  Then they pretend that it was good-natured teasing - that was disingenuous bullshit. Whether Tom knew about the mix otherwise is irrelevant.  Let the food speak for itself.  I quit watching this show for years because of bullying and it has no place here.

I totally agree with your post.  IMO, Eddy should have been gone in the first episode when he used most of the shopping money for his recipe and left the others to deal with not having a needed ingredient for their dish.  Totally selfish and I don't think anyone called him out on it and he certainly didn't apologize as I recall.  Eric leading the cheers and taunting Sara about using a box mix was ugly and uncalled for.  

[HappyDancex2]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 2:32 AM, biakbiak said:

I don’t get how either is an offense. Sarah made a decision to cut a corner with her dish, a decision I understand but one that was hers and hers alone. Pointing out that decision by Adrienne or Tom is not wrong and Sarah should have stood her ground and stood by that decision. 

She's got such a big mouth and ego she should have just defended herself.   She could have said part of Top Chef is making things in time constraints.  You buy a curry powder or garam masala....you didn't toast and make your own.   You buy dried pasta sometimes....you don't make it from scratch.   You alter tomato sauce when you don't have time to develop deep flavors or stew the canned taste of the tomatoes out.   We've been shown repeatedly how the chefs will ask the butchers for help breaking down and preprepping their stuff.   

Specific to her she should have said "do you need to be some kind of culinary genius to blend flours and rising agents?   Don't act like you are Jacques Pepin because you mixed your own waffle mix.   GTFOOH"   

I would have actually respected her for that LOL

[AriAu]

Quote

My friend asked me if Carrie (Colorado) made the bread for her line of Fancy Toasts, LOL? Or did she just make the Fancy, and is that Top Chef worthy? - (It sure was, I dug Carrie) Some of the Cheftestants kept squealing about that.

Good point....and would she have been dinged if she bought bread that wasn't very good? In essence, that is what happened to Sara-her waffles were soggy no matter where they came from.

And Whole Foods has very good bread-the kalamata olive is very VERY good...but should someone get credit for picking good bread and putting fancy/good stuff on it. Justin chose to go "open face"/bunless, because he didn't see the bun he wanted, but would he (and/or should he) have won if he picked out a really good bun and it made the juicy lucy even better???

Quote

If you were a judge, would you award a dessert win to a "chef" who made a doctored Duncan Hines cake, even if it tasted good?

Which leads to the question of what if Sara's waffles had been awesome-would they have held it against her that it started with a mix that she doctored up. My personal opinion (and YMMV) is that using a pre-made waffle should be held against a cheftestant, but using a starter mix shouldn't....but at the end, the question is whether it is very good.....and, yes, it matters whether it is an important component of the dish.

[HappyDancex2]

2 hours ago, greyflannel said:

. If you were a judge, would you award a dessert win to a "chef" who made a doctored Duncan Hines cake, even if it tasted good?

Yes.   Cuz man....I have never been able to make a box mix not taste like a box mix....or eaten a dessert that really was so good that you couldn't tell.  A few people will say "you won't believe this!"  but there is always that weird softness.  It's like they want the cake to be soooooooooooo moist that they are willing for it to not crumb....EVER.   LOL

[biakbiak]

18 minutes ago, etexlady said:

I totally agree with your post.  IMO, Eddy should have been gone in the first episode when he used most of the shopping money for his recipe and left the others to deal with not having a needed ingredient for their dish.  Totally selfish and I don't think anyone called him out on it and he certainly didn't apologize as I recall.  Eric leading the cheers and taunting Sara about using a box mix was ugly and uncalled for.  

It was the second episode, Eddie’s team approved of his purchase, he did apologize and he spent the next few challenges trying to make up for it.

It was Justin not Eric that lead the chant of “Homemade”, Eric was up against hers and just yelled into the mike that his dish was fresh.

12 minutes ago, AriAu said:

Justin chose to go "open face"/bunless, because he didn't see the bun he wanted, but would he (and/or should he) have won if he picked out a really good bun and it made the juicy lucy even better???

But he would have owned the decision to buy the bun just like he owned the decision to not by the bun. Sarah chose not to stand by the decisions she made.

[Eulipian 5k]

15 minutes ago, HappyDancex2 said:

If you were a judge, would you award a dessert win to a "chef" who made a doctored Duncan Hines cake, even if it tasted good?

I believe it was Season 2 Sam who pointed out that Pastry Chef is a specialty because the ratio/proportions of ingredients matters much, much more than in savory cooking. That is half the skill of title Pastry Chef. A boxed mix is getting someone else to do the heavy work so that your pastry behaves. If they are off, you might not get as kwispy a waffle as Tom wanted.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Eulipian 5k
It's all about Tom. No Okra!

[meep.meep]

On 2/11/2019 at 10:22 AM, Yeah No said:

I don't know, these are not the ethical standards I have seen expected of contestants on this show here in the past.  Suddenly  the rules changed and I didn't get the memo.  Speaking of competitions and sportsmanship, what Adrienne said was at best snotty and poor sportsmanship, and that is not a good look on anyone on "Top Chef" in my opinion.  I suppose if I were being considered for a promotion it is now considered OK for me to insinuate to my boss that the others I am competing with for the position, who I know and work with, are not as good as I am because they are using shortcuts and I am not.  None of my bosses would have thought that showed good sportsmanship, and I likely would not have gotten the position on that basis, but I guess the world has changed when I wasn't looking.

The point is, I thought we expected the chefs to get ahead on their own merits, not by comparing themselves to anyone else in any derogatory way.

Every time Top Chef has used a sports venue for their challenge, there has been an element of playing to the crowd.  I don't know if it is spontaneous or producer induced but this was by no means the first time this has happened.  Sara didn't choose to defend herself by starting an alternate cheer - no one was stopping her or anyone on her team.

It certainly doesn't rise to the horrors of someone stealing your pea puree! 

[bravofan27]

Sara's thing is fried chicken, not waffles. That's why she chose the mix. It's probably how she usually makes waffles. I think she really had confidence in her fried chicken and waffles were secondary. Now Adrienne picking on Sara sort of shows some insecurity IMO. Waffles aren't really that big of deal. It's fried chicken that's hard to make. I don't see why it needed to be brought up at all-- the waffles weren't that good anyway. I'm remembering when Kwarme made chicken and waffles and he literally used frozen waffles! Padma could tell immediately. That was bad, but no one ratted him out for it. Respect. Sara IMO was right to be pissed.

Adrienne makes me squirm now. She's catty and I don't think she would have done that to a man. That said, being a celebrity chef is like being a porn star. It's not that hard, you just show up, be on time, and take direction. Once the pressure gets to you, you are quickly and swiftly replaced. It's a dirty business. super fake, and full of douches faking it to make it.