S03.E02: London Bridge is Falling Down

[Kaiju Ballet]

They should just give Aunt Feo a moustache to twirl already.

Talk about anachronistic -- that scene with Victoria comforting Bertie took me back to Clara in Doctor Who, that's how time-bending it was! I know V&A were considered progressive parents for their times, but they were almost a parody of hipster parents letting their kids run wild and then talking peer-to-peer about it. Or at least in this show's universe, make it a deliberate contrast to how Victoria was raised, and how she's doing the over-compensation thing with her own kids.

Agree with @Zella that the scene with French King Simon telling the kids what's what was hilarious, and also felt realistic. It was super kind of Victoria to offer up her uncle's property to him.

Did Albert do anything after he saw the street urchin doing something in the gutter? (e.g. help that kid, toss money at him, etc.) Or was it just another reminder that he's into social welfare and will be doing more in that vein when they get back from Os-porn house?

[Nolefan]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

So was Albert. He was driving me crazy. I didn't like him acting like Victoria wasn't acting like herself and blaming it on the post-pregnancy. Maybe I missed it but Victoria seemed like she was trying to get her opinions across when no one was agreeing with her or even really listening to her and dismissing her which was really, really annoying. I liked the scene with her stopping the carriage and going to talk with Wellington and the two other men.

I thought that the way it was depicted, Victoria was acting differently or like she did in S2 when she was suffering from postpartum depression. Albert found her crying on the ground in the garden, where she specifically told him that the anchor note of her life (i.e.  the love of her people) was gone and that basically she was lost now. I think it was reasonable to conclude that the depression she seems prone to experiencing after giving birth might be contributing (or the real source) to her sadness. Moreover, Albert has been consistently portrayed as being very protective of Victoria (probably a bit overly protective). But, I totally got where he was coming from in this episode. Although things turned out fine, he had no way of knowing that. Heck, in Episode 1, there were Chartist members advocating for the overthrow of Victoria (Mr. Chaffy??, the guy who was leading the mob at the gate) and nowhere in Episode 2 was it ever explained whether or when he changed his mind. So, although Sarah Bartlett told Victoria the Chartists were peaceful and did not want to depose her, this was not true or was never explained to the audience. I also don’t understand why more (or all) of the Chartists weren’t arrested when the police found the boxes of weapons at the Chartist headquarters. I would have thought a raid like that would have shut the whole operation down. I was also confused as to why or what Victoria would have done if she remained in London? The Chartists were walking to present their Petition to Parliament, not Victoria. She said she didn’t want to leave because it would make her look like a coward. So, did she want to be defiant in the face of a potential overthrow by her people? Or, was she concerned that she would look like she was afraid of her people asking for additional rights? While, Albert kept saying that he believed the Chartists were in the right because the English people had been failed by the ruling class, I cannot recall Victoria making any statement about her views on the Chartists’ cause. The only concern she voiced was her fear that her people no longer loved her. 

[LiveenLetLive]

Did anyone notice how JC was being filmed to look extra tiny in this episode, I really hadn't noticed it before, but they were clearly manipulating to perspective to enhance the Queen's tininess, IRL Coleman is about 3" taller than Victoria.

[Nolefan]

15 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

Did Albert do anything after he saw the street urchin doing something in the gutter? (e.g. help that kid, toss money at him, etc.) Or was it just another reminder that he's into social welfare and will be doing more in that vein when they get back from Os-porn house?

LOL!!! Os-porn house!! This scene so much reminded me of the Clockwork Prince S1 episode when Albert saw the begging children and the girl selling matchsticks, then witnessing Victoria feeding Dash off the table and Victoria not even letting people finish their food at dinner (so you could image the amount of food that just got thrown away). Especially the way the scene cut to Bertie feeding the dog off the good china. When Victoria told Albert in the last episode that he didn’t know how the people were living it made me want to yell at the TV because I remembered his passion about the poor from what he witnessed back then. I guess Albert has gotten so caught up living the good life with Victoria, or has been so sideline by her (or is only able to work on the things she finds important), he must have forgotten about all the poor people in England. My guess is that he is not going to wait for Victoria’s permission to act to do things to really make a difference for these people and it’s going to cause strife with Victoria, as she will view it as taking away her power.

[ajsnaves]

17 hours ago, LiveenLetLive said:

Did anyone notice how JC was being filmed to look extra tiny in this episode, I really hadn't noticed it before, but they were clearly manipulating to perspective to enhance the Queen's tininess, IRL Coleman is about 3" taller than Victoria.

I noticed it especially when she was on the street talking to Palmerston and Wellington.  She was almost hobbit sized compared to them.  Funny, that’s where they decide to be historically accurate.

[cameron]

On 1/21/2019 at 12:31 PM, 3 is enough said:

Pleasantly surprised that Skerrett actually showed up for her wedding.  I was sure she was going to bail.

I very much dislike the Fedora storyline.  Never mind that it is pure fantasy, exactly what purpose does it serve?

Add me to the list of those who hate the portrayal of Victoria as a doting mother.  And what is up with Bertie not wanting to be king or thinking Britain only had queens?  The fact that he was the heir was drilled into him from birth.  Also, by the age we see him he already had a team of tutors and a rigorous study program.  Admittedly, he was a poor scholar, which greatly disturbed Albert and soured their relationship.  Since Albert was displeased, Victoria was too.  Definitely not the loving mama we are seeing.

So true.  

Actually, just looked that up.  There really was a Fedora.  Never knew that.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, cameron said:

Actually, just looked that up.  There really was a Fedora.  Never knew that.

I forget that most of the time. I've rarely seen her or Victoria's half-brother mentioned even in biographies about Victoria. I don't think I've ever heard either one referenced in any movie or TV show either except this one. Does anyone know if they've ever come up on any British movie or show about Victoria? 

Edited January 27, 2019 by andromeda331

[3 is enough]

On 1/27/2019 at 8:07 AM, cameron said:

Actually, just looked that up.  There really was a Fedora.  Never knew that.

I should have clarified:  I meant the portrayal of Feodora as the evil scheming sister is pure fantasy.  

Edited January 29, 2019 by 3 is enough

[Razzberry]

I wonder what unspeakable deed Feodora will do next.    I've been looking for some dirt on her but can't find any, unless a gentle rebuke to Victoria was enough to make her a villain.

 

"Victoria kept a disgusted distance from her son. The waspish diarist Charles Greville picked up rumors that “the hereditary and unfailing antipathy of our sovereigns to their Heir Apparent seems … early to be taking root, and the Queen does not much like the child.”

One person who dared to speak to the Queen about her relations with Bertie was her half sister, Feodora, safely ensconced in a distant palace in provincial Germany.  “ Do show him love , dearest Victoria,” she begged, “I know that he thinks you are not fond of him.”   But showing love to her eldest son was something that Victoria was quite unable to do. So emotionally dependent was she on Albert that she wanted only to be the “child ” of her husband. Bertie was despised for his failure to resemble his father in looks, character, or ability.

Ridley, Jane. The Heir Apparent.  Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. 

[lucindabelle]

Feodora was so over the top with her remember whens that I wa spositive we were going to find out she IS really the maid after all. I guess I'm wrong though. Blame it on Downton Abbey and other soaps...

[PJ123]

1 hour ago, lucindabelle said:

Feodora was so over the top with her remember whens that I wa spositive we were going to find out she IS really the maid after all. I guess I'm wrong though. Blame it on Downton Abbey and other soaps...

I kept waiting for her to twirl her invisible mustache like the old villians in silent movies..sigh..  Why are they doing this?  So frustrating.

[andromeda331]

58 minutes ago, PJ123 said:

I kept waiting for her to twirl her invisible mustache like the old villians in silent movies..sigh..  Why are they doing this?  So frustrating.

It really is and really is unnecessary. Victoria really doesn't have any relatives she gets along with it would have been nice to her sister. 

[Ilovepie]

I really didn’t like this episode. Victoria is really getting the simpathetic edit on this show now and it’s verged into complete fiction.  She is always in the right, always doting on her kids. And we are to believe her ladies maid schleps in a street urchin for an audience with the queen?!? I find that impossible to believe would ever happen in real life. Unless someone here know something I’m to lazy to investigate.......

Once again, I couldn’t care less about Francatelli and Nancy. And the sad lady in waiting with the creepy groom who is always watching her. Do.Not.Care.

I don’t know how many more seasons this show has left in it, but for me, I’ve like each season a little less than the one before and this one isn’t starting out good.....

[Kohola3]

7 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I find that impossible to believe would ever happen in real life. Unless someone here know something I’m to lazy to investigate.......

Well, much like people used to be able to drop by and visit the White House, I think that security was a lot less stringent in the palace back then.  There were guards and all but it wasn't all that difficult to get in.  The teenager Edward Jones broke into the palace a number of times.

Whether or not it was that easy for one of her staff to bring in a visitor, I have no idea.

[Ilovepie]

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

I think that security was a lot less stringent in the palace back then.

You might be right - maybe that’s me looking through a post-911 filter. It still seems crazy, particularly since it’s someone from a group that would be considered a possible threat to the queen.....

[Kohola3]

11 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

It still seems crazy, particularly since it’s someone from a group that would be considered a possible threat to the queen.....

It certainly does but consider the fact that Abraham Lincoln used to have regular audiences with members of the public when in the White House.  And he was the target of several assassination attempts.  Those were the pre-vetting days, that's for sure.  

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 1/24/2019 at 2:51 PM, Kaiju Ballet said:

Agree with @Zella that the scene with French King Simon telling the kids what's what was hilarious, and also felt realistic. It was super kind of Victoria to offer up her uncle's property to him.

Her Uncle Leopold, King of the Belgians, was also the father-in-law of said exiled king of France, (thus Louis' daughter is her aunt by marriage) so it makes a lot of sense.

Also, remember that Feodora is Bertie's first cousin.  His mother Louise was her (disgraced) aunt by marriage to Albert and Ernst's father, and King Leopold is her uncle.

On 1/24/2019 at 2:51 PM, Kaiju Ballet said:

Did Albert do anything after he saw the street urchin doing something in the gutter? (e.g. help that kid, toss money at him, etc.)

We were meant to notice the contrast between the urchin rooting around in the gutter for smashed vegetables  to eat, and the next scene of Bertie feeding marron glacé and other delicacies to Victoria's dog.

[Roseanna]

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 5:11 AM, Twopper said:

 Prince Charles was the first heir to the throne to go to boarding school.  Prince Henry of Glouster (sp?) was the first child of a British monarch to go to boarding school.  He was the son of George V, and the story is he was touring some boarding school and asked if he could attend so they sent him there when he was 10 and then he went on the Eton and Trinity College.   I think Henry was third in line to the throne.  Other royal children had tutors.

George V and his older brother, Eddy, who died young were sent to the Royal Navy as pre-teen. Later George V sent his sons Edward VIII and George VI to the Navy. That meant that they got a very limited education, but to George V it was more imortant to avoid that they wouldn't become friends with flatterers in the bording scool. In the Navy at least Edward VIII was brutally bullied.  

[Roseanna]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 11:28 PM, iMonrey said:

I do think there's a tendency to romanticize Victoria and Albert which extends to their relationship with their children. But as sugarbaker design notes above, Lady Mary was not less popular with audiences of Downton Abbey because she observed a traditional parenting role for the upper class - a "viewing" once per day. For whatever reason this show wants to make Victoria and Albert look like more modern parents, but then again this show has never been quite as good as Downton Abbey.

Lady Mary in Downton Abbey was a distant mother, just like aristocatic mothers were at the time (also Winston Churchill's American mother!). But she wasn't a bad mother.

Instead, Victoria irl seems to have been a horrible mother, also when her children were adults.  

[Roseanna]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 9:51 PM, Kaiju Ballet said:

Did Albert do anything after he saw the street urchin doing something in the gutter? (e.g. help that kid, toss money at him, etc.) Or was it just another reminder that he's into social welfare and will be doing more in that vein when they get back from Os-porn house?

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 6:59 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

We were meant to notice the contrast between the urchin rooting around in the gutter for smashed vegetables  to eat, and the next scene of Bertie feeding marron glacé and other delicacies to Victoria's dog.

A good observation, Itcouldbeworse. But even if Albert had abandoned part of luxuries to feed the poor it wouldn't have solve problems of society. It was a political question. Why was Palmerston so much against the Chartists' demand of suffrage of all males? Probably because it threatened the priviledges of his class who had made laws to protect them.

[Roseanna]

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 3:25 PM, Kohola3 said:

Well, much like people used to be able to drop by and visit the White House, I think that security was a lot less stringent in the palace back then.  There were guards and all but it wasn't all that difficult to get in.  The teenager Edward Jones broke into the palace a number of times.

Whether or not it was that easy for one of her staff to bring in a visitor, I have no idea.

Originally, monarchs lived their lives publicly almost all the time, although there was different rooms were the access was to all, many or a few.

It was Victoria and Albert who began the mode of living (semi)privately. Alix did the same in Russia, and one of the reasons why she wasn't liked was that she didn't fulfill the public duties as Tsarina.

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:

nstead, Victoria irl seems to have been a horrible mother, also when her children were adults.  

She was so controlling, even after they married and moved away (the daughters, at least). Victoria didn't want her children to be individuals—everything they did had to benefit her and her ideas. She must have been a nightmare.

I doubt she was much better as a grandmother/great-grandmother. There must have been a discreet, if giant, sigh of relief when she finally shuffled off her mortal coil.